West Out, Wally Limited

If West and Wally both have no minutes or limited minutes, someone has to get them. Hopefully GG will get the lions share.

Wallys ankle(s) no doubt habve much to do w/his shootin’woes.
No need to rush him back. Id also like to see Del get some rest
and Rondo back in the lineup.

gotta love it… “Wally sits out the workout at practice because his knee is swelling, ankles are black and blue, and he gets no greater than 2 centimeters of lift. BUT HE STILL PLANS TO PLAY AGAINST THE PACERS.” Hey Wally, do us a favor and sit out. This isn’t the wheelchair olympics, so it’s not smart to roll out onto the court in one and compete against superb athletes.

Let’s see Rondo. I won’t think any less of DWest if he sits out a game or two to rest… in fact I hope he does.

Anyone think Doc will start Perk and Al together tonight. Foster had 17 rebounds last night and I fear he would get 30 if Gomes started instead of Perk.

We are not rushing Pierce back, so why rush Wally back? Is he on the trade block??? Wally has more injuries to heal than Pierce. He should get at least a week to let the ankles rest. So he will get limited minutes tonight huh…I wonder what “limited” means to Doc.

Doc said the same thing last year about not playing Wally extended minutes. Remember what actually happened.

"Would the Celtics management please step up and protect their players.

Don’t listen to West and Wally if they say they can go. Just sit them for their own good. Or do we have to wait until Wally’s leg doubles in thickness and West’s back snap."

Every one of the front office guys know full well that thier jobs are on the line. All the doctors and training staff can do for the players is ask them how they are feeling and manage pain. Players that want to play, what a horrid concept.

Those same doctors will tell Doc and Danny when the players are endangering themselves by continuing to play. Up until that point if a guy says he can go you can’t sit him. Players know thier own bodies way better than joe fan whose never come close to competing on that level does, the minute a player says he can go and the team sits them the player stops giving complete effort.

“Wally has more injuries to heal than Pierce. He should get at least a week to let the ankles rest.”

So you’re a doctor too? Who are you Bill Frist? Pure speculation on your part, with nothing to back it up.

I find it hard to believe that the players have to take themselves out. This should be all on the coaches and trainers. These guys shouldn’t have been playing the last two weeks or if playing not to near the extent. It was obvious to anyone with a brain that they were injured and needed more time off. Phoenix plays an 8 man rotation, I’m sure the C’s can get by with 10 while the rest of the players get healthy (Kandi, Perk, Jefferson, Gomes, Scals, Green, Ray, Allen, Rondo, and Telfair)

Moranis – you made a Doc mistake, you forgot Powe is on the roster :)

Love it brendan — you just made my morning…

Telfair and Rondo will be good NBA point guards. We don’t need one. We need to develop these guys. That means we’ve got to play them. Delonte is not so good that a 50-75% Delonte is better than a 100% of those two guys. PLAY THEM DOC. Bankshot, you are right that Gomes has not been inspiring lately but you are dreaming of the Perk you want rather than the Perk we’ve got. He is likely to have 3 fouls in 6-8 minutes. I don’t think that he can start. And I agree with Celtics Nation, PLAY GERALD

TANK TANK TANK TANK!!

Tell Walley to take it easy and take his own sweet time coming back. Rest of for next year.

I really think the quality of posts and analysis has gone down since the launch of the new site…

Or maybe is just since the fall of PP.

Anyone hear how he’s doing and when he’ll be back?

Moranis—-It’s always been this way. And the Doctors and Ed Lacerte do tell Doc to not let someone play, when necessary, and Doc always abides by their decision. There are some players who will not play when they can. Fortunately we don’t have this type of player on this team. The player knows how he feels and deserves the right to make the decision of whether or not he can play. If he plays and it’s seen by anyone on the bench that he’s not able to go he will be taken out. It’s really as simple as that.

Jeff, I loved your “Yes, I’m bitter” comment. Because I’ve been skeptical about Doc for a year, and bitter since about November 15th.

Doc’s rotations are extremely weak. The players with the most upside (Green, Jefferson, Telfair and Rondo) sit and watch as Wally and Gomes and West) muddle through.

Doc cannot understand that his only hope for job security lies with uplifting his prospects. This means consistent roles and consistent playing time.

Geez, rest the injured players! What’s the benefit of playing Wally? He has no lift & can’t hit the side of a barn these days. REST HIM! I’m not convinced Perk is healthy either.

Give Telfair, Al TA & Green a ton of minutes. See what you have in Rondo, Powe & Ray.

At the very least they’ll know what they have going forward & possibly have a healthy roster for the 2nd half of the season.

Johnk, if we want to tank Wally should play more, not less, especially with the way he has been playing lately.

“The players with the most upside (Green, Jefferson, Telfair and Rondo) sit and watch as Wally and Gomes and West) muddle through.”

People always miss the fact that when they use the term ‘upside’ its generally because the player they’re talking about sucks at this point. Right now neither Telfair nor Rondo have shown they can be the player West was last season, or even close to it. Using that as judging piece, they’ve got a ton of upside. The only one that’s shown much of anything to deserve extended playing time has been Jefferson.

“I find it hard to believe that the players have to take themselves out. This should be all on the coaches and trainers.”

My guess is you’ve never played sports at a highly competitive level. Trainers jobs is to make pain managable enough to play. Coaches jobs is to put the guys out that give the team the greatest opportunity to win. The players have to be the ones to tell the coaches if they think they can manage the pain and play. Now if a player is obviously ineffective and there’s better solutions (here’s where our problem is) then you sit that player.

True enough bankshot, but I don’t think killing his career is a good idea either. Let him rest and come back healthy next year when he is one year closer to being an expiring contract.

Scotty, your definition of “upside” (the player they’re talking about sucks at this point) is very cynical. The learning curve of nearly every NBA player begins at a low point, but good coaches walk them through the curve, while poor NBA coaches get frustrated and turn to mediocre, but more dependable alternatives.

  Based on the Injuries, what about this starting line up?:

Al
Gomes
Tony
Gerald
Rajon

Yep, we are very close of hitting “rock bottom” :’(

When can we declare? Is now a good time?

The only thing that gives me hope is the slim possiblity Doc would play Perk and AL together for long streches….and GG showing more assertiveness.

In the mean-time, hold on…this is going to get uglier

“Scotty, your definition of "upside” (the player they’re talking about sucks at this point) is very cynical."

It may be but go on a tour of fansites around the league and see how many man-crushes people have on unproven late first and second round picks based solely on potential. Rondo’s been solid in a couple stretches and horrid in some stretches, Telfair’s been awful.

“The learning curve of nearly every NBA player begins at a low point, but good coaches walk them through the curve, while poor NBA coaches get frustrated and turn to mediocre, but more dependable alternatives.”

You’re making it sound like these guys are potential all-stars and West and Wally are nothings. At this point I’d be happy if Gerald, Rondo or Telfair (any one of the three) showed the ability to perform at the level that either West or Wally have in thier best years.

Coaches turn to the guys that give them the best chance to win, unless they’ve been given the directive from management to develop younger talent and the assurance that they’ll be there long term. Nearly every Celtics fan wants to hang Rivers based on percieved potential that they see in thier own players. We’re to scared to deal any of these young guys because they ‘might’ turn out to be great and we want to bench all the proven players we have hoping that one of the unproven guys breaks out.

These guys all need to develop but hte worst thing that could happen is to rush thier learning curves or to ask them to be something they’re not. Gerald has shown the aptitude to be a solid weapon off hte bench in limited minutes, his 3 point shooting has dropped off as teams have adapted to what he’s bringing. Part of growing is knowing where someone is on that curve, and none of our young guys except Al has made huge strides with extra available minutes.

It wont matter who the PG will be. TA is gonna dominate the ball all night. It will make the PGs look ineffective and make GG look invisible.

 Doc says he will start Telfair. That figures we know Rondo probably will still see only 10-12 min. As far as Wally I agree rest for the rest of the year. Need that time for those ankles to heel. Tired off Wally’s bricks! Our whole problem stems from our Coach.
 I read that Doc might buy up here in Boston. I hope they do not give assurances he is coming back. WOW talk about killing 2 years in a row!

Good post Scotty, but be careful someone is sure to throw the 48 minute stat (taking a players stats and expanding them to 48 minutes) at you. To try to justify thier arguement. LOL Keep it real! Keep the Faith, Restore the Pride

We need a new coach by the allstar break. Doc could only muster .500 season with grant hill in prime and tmac. thats like having 2 pp each getting double teamed.
hitting the lottery doesnt make us better down the road as we wont be able to resign are next joe johnsons and chauncey billups types so we can wait 3 to 4 more yrs after next yr for lotto pick to be were we need him.lotto means rotate in and out rookie contracts give training and let others reap benes.clips until they got brand and wanted to win.
Also losing now to hit the lottery doesnt help us in learning how to win
its like why do we have to take some classes in school , to learn how to learn, bball is the same we have to learn how to win together.
Lotto means we have become the clippers of the past.
the bottom line is we need to start winning now if it means a new coach to re energize us with a spark then bye bye doc , dont let the door hit you in the arse on the way out, or its been nice and its been real but it hasnt been reall nice.

Wally being “restricted” is a PLUS to me….the guy has needed to be “restricted” since he sprained both his ankles… hes been PUTRID….I agree with Jeff, though…with Doc Rivers as coach, you still dont know how much Gerald Green will play, which is assinine……I wouldnt mind seeing Rondo get more run as well….

if they let gerald out his cage, hes pretty much gonna get you close to 20 points, and probly make an impact with his defense, rebounding, or passing, something like that. oh well, i want to competitively tank anyways, so i hope we continue to do all that we need to to lose basketball games, its important. seems like so many teams are tanking this year, and with all the star players and good players hurt, its just adding to the mess. its becoming quite clear which teams mean business (most of them reside out west), and which teams give ya a wink and a smile when they lose.

i just want al horford from this draft, hes a realistic target, anything better than him (imo, only durant and oden) is just gravy and luck, but i think we can put ourselves in a very good position to grab al horford, and be mostly set in our frontcourt for a long time.

All these statements mean is that injuries rather than youth are this year’s primary excuse for losing. If everyone were healthy Rivers would revert to the youth excuse or find something else.

Perk:

We don’t need to alter the truth on Doc, let’s please keep it real. From Herald article: Hill played in just 47 of a potential 257 games when Rivers was coaching the Magic. Both have wondered how Hillâ€â"¢s injuries might have altered their respective careers.

 Ã¢â‚¬Å"I had a lot of fun playing for Doc,” Hill told local reporters. â€Å"Sometimes you sit around and think woulda, shoulda, coulda. A lot of things happened in the past, good and bad, but you have to move on. . . . Docâ€â"¢s always fun to see. I have good memories of being around him, and I learned from him. I still consider him a good friend.”

Even with Doc’s short comings he seems to get the support of the players who have played for him. You have to give him that. Plus both the Magic team and this Celtic team were both very young teams.

how ‘bout this starting perk, gomes, al, rondo & allen for this evening only. Chances are we’d rule the boards, you would have instant offense from the bench from green who can play 2 posistions and you know perk would be in foul trouble quickly(90% sure). I know telfair will start but rondo really impresses me. And yes to add to many peoples comments, rest wally we need him healthy he spreads the floor (when healthy) with his long range offense.

I think perk with his young age is going to be traded, 2 young guys and al definately came out on top. But we’ll have to wait and see. If theo isn’t gone what a backup center, teacher, leader he could be for the young guys. GG in ’08 sounds great, still needs lots of work but his offensive game is soooo polished for a kid right now he could be scarey.

last quick addition if doc is so great with the young guys and development great but doesn’t that make him more a asst coach, his offensive schemes and subbing is not pro caliber at all

They way Doc jerks players around and calls them out in public, and never takes responsibility himself for the team’s shortcomings, I wouldn’t want him coaching any of my players, especially young players.

If the medical staff recommends he doesn’t play, you don’t play him Doc, regardless if he suits up and tells you he is playing like what happened it Portland. Hello, earth to Doc, you are supposed to be the coach, act like it and don’t play the man if he shouldn’t be playing.

Doc is a menace to the health of our players, and I’ve said that before. Anyone not familiar with the game would think, after reading that article, that the players were in charge of who gets to play.

Delonte should not be playing now. He should sit out a week, at the very least. Back problems are bad news, and being played through them only makes them worse. It isn’t as if he has been effective as a point guard anyways. Doc playing him like it is game 7 of a playoff series and Delonte is Steve Nash is moronic.

Wally is playing on two bad knees and two bad ankles. That is a recipe for a majory injury, like an ACL tear. He doesn’t have the proper stability in his joints and if he takes a wrong step, he could go down for a year. How, exactly, does that help us?

It isn’t as if we don’t have guys who could take up the slack, but Doc does not want to play those guys. He would rather risk Delonte going down for months than play Rondo, who is a better POINT GUARD than West anyways, IMO. Gerald, our best young wing talent, is being benched so that Wally can stagger around out there and just plain suck.

The worst part is that Doc thinks that we need to play these guys!!! How out of touch with reality can this guy be?

Count me in the chorus of ‘Doc should not be playing these two.’

Danialthemaniel, I too like Horford in the draft, after seeing him completly shut down Oden on both ends of the floor in his first game back from injury, was just way too impressive.

I don’t like Horford as much as I like Noah. I think that Durant and Wright are going to be better than both of them. Watch Kansas play this year. Wright is truly all tool player. Not some knucklehead chucker who thinks he can do it all, but a KG type big guy who really can.

Mike, I think we misunderstood the Celtics website. It’s okay — I know I only skimmed it quickly. Anyway, it turns out if you read carefully that Delonte West is the coach. That’s why he’s the one who gets to determine how much he plays. Glenn Rivers is actually a ball boy.

My mistake, Dslack ;)

Look, I understand players always want to play, which means these guys are really hurt since players never ask out. Just imagine how much in pain they must be to not want to play. It is the coaching staff and trainers responsibility to rest players that are performing poorly because they are injured. Wally’s knee, which was fairly healthy, is now hurt because he was playing on bad ankles. That should never have happened. It should never be to the point where the media and fans know that the players have to ask to be sat out, it should always be something like the coaches saying, they probably could play, but the team feels its best for them to sit out and get back healthy.

Guys, just sit back and enjoy the lottery race !!!!!!

While Green and Jefferson are emerging as potential stars. All in all it will be a good day come draft day if we have one of the top 3 in the draft and with Pierce next year should be a better season…

Now if Danny doesn’t screw this up and trades either Wally or Ratliff for some poor contract then we are in deep doodoo!!!
 ;D

Im excited for this game.

thanks Alaska, i didnt know that hill only played 47 games, i just remember the triple double numbers he would put up

Keep in mind we are playing at home. There are some players that are not playing well at home.

Color me as darkly angry that Ainge has assembled the most injury-prone team in the history of the Celtics per talent level. Bird had a bad back, McHale was injured too at the end, but wow. This team healthy is a .500 one at best.
But to bring on people like LaFrentz, Theo and Wally with their OBVIOUS health issues — none of their maladies were unknown to Ainge at the time of their coming on board — is bordering on insanity. And I don’t chalk THAT up to Ainge working with a stacked deck against him. Looking back, he could have let Walker play out his contract and then landed a quality starter with a similar contract, and NOT take on LaFrentz and his woes. All he did with last year’s trade was rid himself of some bad attitudes and shave a year of injured all-star salary (Theo for Raef). Just once I wish we made a trade where someone wasn’t riding the freakin’ pine and making huge bank.
Where’s the v-a-l-u-e on this team?!??!