Home Unsweet Home: C's lose to Indy 97-84

I’m oscilating between feeling bad for Tony and getting angry at him for the worthless dunk attempt.

Someone dunks after a play like that every game. Maybe he shouldn’t have done it but it’s not like he’s alone. If Lebron got hurt doing the same thing I wouldn’t trash him for it I’d feel bad for a good player that got hurt on a fluke play. That’s all it was, a fluke. Calling him stupid is hardly the right thing to do at a time like this.

d.e.p.r.e.s.s.i.n.g.

I was there and I am just heartbroken…He took a long time to recover from his last knee injury and now this….The curse continues.

Yeah, I couldn’t disagree more. Tony did something that (1) is a big part of what makes him the sort of player he is and (2) tons and tons of other players in the league do all the time. This was a FLUKE. Bad luck. Imagine how many dunks like that Tony throws down during any given practice, meaninglessly. If you are going to call him stupid for this, you should stop watching the dunk contest every year and get pissed off when players go out of their way to meaningless block shots after the whistle.

I just feel bad for him, after all the effort he made to get back. He had become our Pierce with Pierce out. Now who do we turn to, Gerald? Get real.

How can you blame Tony? It was a fluke, plain and simple. The kid goes all out and plays hard for the Cs. He came back from the last injury and I hope he can come back from this one. I hope everyone is patient with him and remembers how long it took him to come back from the first one.

yes. Amen, Bankshot.

If Tony can come back and play the way he’s been playing, I’ll wait.

I think the C’s would have pulled out that game had Tony not been injured. The Pacers are not good.

Michael Redd went down on a worthless “frustration dunk” himself a few nights ago. Play wasn’t over, nor his season, though.

does someone have the play on vid or youtube? i missed it and would really like to see it.

nvm, it is on nba.com

I know it is his knee because that is what everyone is saying and what he grabbed for, but it looked like he rolled his ankle coming down, initially grabbed for that, but then went up to the knee.

“(Allen) was playing really well, keeping them in the game,” Jackson said. “… I wish him the best and from the Pacers to him, we’re going to pray for him. We never wish that on nobody.”

He’s definately a bit off his rocker, but Stephen Jackson has a big heart.

Joke aside, to me Jackson’s quote is exactly my thoughts on Tony (except for the speaking for the Pacer organization of course).

Why? Oh why? Why must you diss Ricky Davis? He played hard for this team and gave it his all. Love him or hate him, he played 48 minutes every game. You can’t say that for everybody. You may not agree with his ethics or his game, but it seems to me that you are insulting his heart. Which, during the tenor of him in Boston, he had more of than anybody else I saw on that floor. So leave him out of your pithy comments.

I for one would like to see him back here in green. Anybody want to take Ricky over Tony Allen? I know I would take that in a second.

Can’t sleep. What a attrocious ending to a gutsy game. At least Powe gave us something at the end. In yet another game where we were getting killed on the boards, why does he only see meaningless minutes at the end. I love Gomes but he is not getting it done this year. What does it take to get Powe and Rondo some meaningful minutes. Unfortunately it takes a tragic series of injuries like this. Will need Gomes to step it up as well. Al can’t do it with double/triple teams every night. Time to bring your “A” game Gerald. Good game for Telfair = keep it up Bassy.

I think your completly being unfair with Tony Allen. Why blame him for finishing a play. BTW he didnt try to slaim it with all his might thats prob why he fell awkard to begin with, it was a fluke thing that happends in sports, he has been the only glimmer of hope over the past few games, he has made mistakes in the past, but what does that got to do with his game on the court. If Paul Pierce makes this same play would you be on him aswell? Or would you let it go because he hasn’t had problems off the court? I think this is soley a freak think, just my opinion.

much like tony allens dunk .. this whole season has been a rimshot

I’ll add my support to those who think this was sad and unfortunate rather than stupid or iresponsible. Tony, Gerald, Gilbert, Redd and a whole host of other nimble shooting guards will do the same thing hundreds of times this year without the same result. Obviously, we all wish he didn’t energize after the foul, but he did, and the result is sad for a young man who seems to have worked hard, appears to have learned a lesson with regard to his off-court behavior (who knows, but I choose to think so), and was shocking Celtic Nation for the last month with steady, inspired play in the absense of the Captain. Best wishes to Tony.

You cant get mad at Tony for his “worthless” dunk. It could’ve just as easily happened in warmups or at practice. Guys do things like that all the time in games.

You need a guy not to be thinking about hurting himself. Or he will not play confidently. And by not playing confidently will not play effectively.

Its a shame he’s hurt but its not his fault. Just an accident.

I feel terrible for Tony Allen. He was playing really well with
meaningful minutes. Now Gerald will have to kick his game up a notch or or two. They can move West to the 2 and play GG at the 2
and the 3. I am among the people that wanted more minutes for GG,
but not like this. For the folks looking for a high lottery pick,
it may happen now. With Scal out, perhaps there will be a Leon Powe sighting. I hope so. He can rebound. They need that.

Can’t blame allen but from someone who had many injuries…when play stops keep on the ground, do a finger roll or something. Feel very bad about Allen and hope he only has a slight tear not acl. As for game telfair played well but his man tinsley rocked us. Gomes who I really like ineffective at best. Al not good, think he’s a future all star, learn to pass quick when you are doubled, more effort. Gerald is now our #1 or #2 option, time to see what the kid has. Perk how many minutes and how many rebounds, sorry back up only. Leon doesn’t have the polish for offense in pro (at this pt) but the man defends and gets lots of rebounds. Maybe he deserves a serious look. Also best to scal not sure where his knee is.

Just to update my initial thoughts – its really more anger at the situation then it is at Tony. I agree that going up and dunking that ball is the same thing that makes Tony – Tony.

Really sad news…

Hagrid- I share your views. as i just posted in eric weiss’ article above I can’t believe that teams don’t have rules against players doing this. they earn way too much money to put themselves at risk when they don’t have to. I wonder what the C’s insurance policy says about this? I don’ t subscribe to the rationalization used by a lot of posters here that tony is only doing what everyone else does. They’re wrong too and I’d be willing to bet that after this teams crack down on the “show dunks”

To clarify a couple points:

1. I never said a thing about Ricky Davis’ heart. It was always what was going on in his head that was at issue.

2. IF Paul Pierce had done this I would have ripped him too.

Sure it was a fluke and something that other players do all the time, but consider the following:
-TA was the #1 option for this team right now.
-He had finally started putting his career back on track.
-At the ripe old age of 25(Happy Birthday Tony, BTW) he was the OLDEST starter out there and the most senior player.

With all that comes RESPONSIBILITY. He was the team leader whether he liked it or not. That means considering consequences before doing things that could end in injury. Not thinking before acting has been a detraction on Tony since his college days. His maturity curve seems to be even slower than his career progress.

Do I feel bad for him, YES. I’ve had my knee reconstructed twice and know that it’s a long painful road to recovery.

Am I still pissed at him, YES. It was an unnecessary act that cost the team a chance to win a game that they were actually doing pretty well in competing in. He hurt the team and TEAM comes first, not your personal ESPN highlight film.

The ultimate success of a dunk attempt rather than a glass-assisted layup has to do with the speed, force and elevation in which the dunk’s executed. We have players that dunk in.. s l o w.. motion and those that dunk with aggressive authority, blinding speed and elevation. A shot blocker needs to be in position to block a shot and it helps if the “dunker” is telegraphing his move, is slow to execute and has poor elevation.

Tony Allen and Gerald Green are good examples of the former and Perkins and Scal of the latter type of dunk.

I concede that a dunk is not always the best option but knowing the intimidating style of Tony’s play and the ability of the dunk to fire the enthusiasm of his teammates (as well as the fans), I would back-off criticizing Tony for taking an ill-advised dunk (which led to his injury).

A loss of this type will have dire consequences, at least initially, but as others have already pointed out, we weren’t going anywhere as it was. Also, as in the San Antonio injury to David Robinson (plus the luck of the draft), there could be a silver lining yet to come.

Yet, despite looking forward to the draft, we have stated all season that we need to know which of our youth belong and which should be moved as we shape the team of the future. With our starting lineup on the shelf with injuries we should be able to give enough PT to discover which of our bench players have enough upside to warrant retention.

One poster said that Gomes has to take it up another notch. I would have said; Gomes has to grow acouple of inches physically. Gomes’problem is not effort; its his height. He is asked to compete down low for rebounds against taller Pfs and Centers, and he just gets overpowered, mainly at the offensive end. Its hard for him to guard taller opponents at 6.7.with the added drawback that he is not a leaper. He is doing his best, but what you see is what you are going to get from him.

BTW, how tall is Powe, 6.7 or 6.8? He looks at least as strong as Gomes; but does not have Gomes outside shot. I think he leaps higher than Gomes, but not sure. Could he be converted into a PF? Would he be able to be more effective than Gomes? Is he more atheltic? Comments, please, if only for my sake?

Hagrid, I think you are wrong accusing Tony of trying that dunk for his own perdonal show on ESPN highlights. I dont think Tony is worried about ESPN highlights; he did it cause thats what leapers do every chance they have to dunk a ball. It comes naturally to them; Fans love dunks. Fans loved when Ricky dunked and he dunked for them and said so. Tony does not have Ricky’s flamboyant personality; Im not saying that with time he might not have developed one; but he didnt have one yet, to be fair with him. It was an easy, uncontested dunk, so he did it and paid an unexpected price. That is all that happened. Dont accuse him of nothing he is not, just cause you are frustrated. We all are, but there are a lot more things to be frustrated about that his normal decision to dunk that ball.

I didn’t get to see the game last night so my comments may be way off base. Jefferson’s best position is at the “5” position as he has great inside moves but an underdeveloped outside and midrange game (and an inability to take his man off the dribble).. I note that both he and Perkins started the game and thus that Jefferson may have been playing (at the "4") out-of-his-best-position.

The success of inside players often depends upon the success of a team’s perimeter and midrange game (which opens the interior) as well as ball movement and player movement to keep defenders off-balance. Open interiors also allow better passing options for inside players.

The success of inside players also has alot to do with the quality of defenders/defensive scheme of opponents. A zone defense has the ability to test an opponents outside game/ball and player movement.

I have noted in the past that when Perkins and Jefferson are on the floor together that our team plays a double post. This style of play without effective perimeter shooting, ball and player movement strangles an inside game effort and favors the defense.

Perhaps that is why Jefferson did not have a good game?

Hey! Wake up! Tony Allen is not dead! He tore his ACL. Powe tore two ACLs and he’s still playing in the NBA. Tony is going to have to attach himself to Leon and do everything he did in order to get back from this injury. It sucks, but we have to shake off this morbid feeling. Paul will be back soon. We are probably at rock bottom right now, but there is only one way to go now….Up!!

Now try to convince me you are a Celtics fan, since all I read from you is a constant ripping of the Celts.

^If that comment wasn’t so ridiculous, I might entertain responding to it Legend…..

Sympathy for him, yes. I’ve been through 2 ACL surgeries. Sympathy for the act that caused the injury, hell no.

I guess I have to be completely positive in everything I say or else I’m not a fan, right? 12-22 and I’m supposed to be completely cheery about the state of this team…Unbelieveable.

unfair commentary hagrid. it was a freak injury and not something stupid that tony did. getting an aggravated assult charge in chicago was stupid; following through on a basketball play and getting injured was unfortunate and bizarre. seriously how many times has tony dunked like that without ever getting injured? 1000? 2000?

while i don’t doubt you’re a celtics fan, it certainly doesn’t sound like you’re a tony allen fan.

Some of us have a tendacy to put our foot in our mouths and show our true level of maturity or lack there of. Tont thought it was a continious play thus the dunk. I am sure he wwould not have hurt himself deliberatly so why curse and blame him? thus is pure hogwash.NBA players all the time continue a play after the ref had blow the play dead. How can a player know why the play was blow dead? Most player even when they believ ethey kb=now a foul is committed continue the play and shoot or dunk the ball. Tony’s just happen to end tragically? Get well Tony I sure hope you can cntinue your NBA carreer.

Im not going to bash TONY for dunking after the play.. Please. I feel bad for the guy. I hope he doesn’t lose hope. I love watching the guy play and I hope that he plays in the NBA with the same swagger he played with the past month again.

Just sad

In adding my thoughts to reyquilas I think Gomes is actually pretty good on low post and pick & pop jumpers. His low post reminds me of another “short” player Adrian Dantley. He draws fouls, passes well etc. As I’ve stated before he scores 10 pts a game while being option # zero in the offense, his points come off swings, offensive rebounds and once in a blue moon pick & pop. I think they should try him at small forward, make a smaller player guard him on the box. Play GG at shooting guard, he has the range and again a possible match up problem for other team. Which means Perk off the bench, just doesn’t have it to start (in my opinion) because I’D START LEON POWE! Yes might sound crazy but he won’t clog up middle for Al’s offense, because he is quick to go for offensive boards. Unlike Perk who seems to have to be real close or he’s getting fouls. I think a tough problem with the make up of this team is 3 young guys for pg posistion, 2 young guys for center etc etc. You can’t keep a young guy on bench for long so you have to come up with the best of the bunch and trade others for vets. PS-I’ve already posted about Tony & Scal so don’t think I’m skipping over those issues (just trying to think posistive).
 >:( Oh yeah how bout boxing out, such a simple thing but post perk & telfair were highlights of how not to do it last night. Doc set up some simple drills for this!

Oh yeah, Gomes does need to step up his game. Last night was unproductive except near the end of game when he was on box making things happen. Team made a nice comeback with perk, gomes and powe working hard. But doc…if al was not effective and the other guys got it to 4 why substitute him back in? still can’t get a grasp on his minute allocation from the 1st quarter on.