Guilty Conscience
by Jeff Clark on Jan 20, 2007 8:58 AM EST
in Boston Celtics Articles
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PrintTell me if this has happened to you this year.
I was out last night so I had the game taping on my DVR but I was still able to catch the score on the ESPN ticker a couple of times. The first time I saw it was in the 3rd period with the game tied at 62 all and it flashed up that Jefferson had 20 points and Delonte had 19. The “good fan†in me was excited because I am thrilled with Big Al’s emergence and I happen to be a Delonte fan. Still, there was something dark in the recesses of my mind that whispered warnings to me that I suppressed. “No, this is good†I thought. We need to play well and win.
The second time I saw the score flash up we were down by a few points and the seconds were ticking down to the final buzzer. This time those whispers jumped from the back of my mind and silently yelped with joy at the team’s defeat. This happened unconsciously and without warning. There was nothing I could do. It just came out and I think I even smiled outwardly.
A second later I was filled with guilt and did my best to push the joy down and beat myself up for feeling that way. “This is bad,†I reminded myself. “The team can’t go on learning to lose and developing a culture of losing.â€Â I realize that the team is without its best player, but lots of other teams rally around each other and overachieve in situations like that. We haven’t. Some teams can even muster up a .500 record without their star. We couldn’t even do that with a healthy team.
What’s going to happen at the end of the year if we don’t win the lottery? Given the eventual return of Pierce, we’ll probably have somewhere between the 5th and 7th pick, miss out on Oden, Durant, and other instant-impact players and have to gamble on the next best project. Is losing all these games really worth adding another guy that’s 2 or 3 years away from contributing?
Still, the Siren’s song of lottery ping-pong balls calls to us from distant shores. The slim chance that we could get the next Duncan, Jordan, or LeBron is enough to make us turn on our team and root for losses in January. We haven’t even reached the All Star break yet and we are checking the bottom of the standings.
When I saw that the Sixers won last night, I was filled with joy. I can rationalize that feeling because technically it isn’t rooting against my own team. I’m just hoping that everyone else does a little better. Every win by Grizzlies, Bobcats, and Hawks gives me the same feeling. If we are going to stink, I want them all to stink just a little less.
I’ll probably watch last night’s game at some point in the next couple days. I want to see Jefferson’s performance. I want to see Delonte play well (finally). I need my little consolation prizes. I won’t have to worry about my guilty conscience when I watch it on tape because I’ll already know the outcome. I guess that’s why it hit me so hard last night. When I watch the games live, I don’t know the outcome so when the little voice creeps up and tells me that we want to lose, I can ignore it and be distracted by the game. When I just saw the score, I was startled by my reaction.
What is happening here? What have I become? Can I do this for a whole season? Do I need to detach more? Do I need to become more callous and uncaring? Do I ditch the lottery dreams and simply root for victories? Or can I manage to waffle for the rest of the season by enjoying wins and appreciating what the losses could eventually mean?
I’m very confused. What a weird, crazy, depressing yet hopeful year.
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"Iâ€â"¢ll probably watch last nightâ€â"¢s game at some point in the next couple days. I want to see Jeffersonâ€â"¢s performance. I want to see Delonte play well (finally). "
-You definitely should, Jeff…both performances were very encouraging and delonte’s confidence andexecution made me forget the loss of tony allen for 48 minutes. Also, gomes at the 3 really troubled artest which was an interesting development.
Pieece isn’t coming back this year, it’s just time to face it. We’re tanking period. And Durant or Oden will heal all your pain.
That “culture of losing” is pretty much nonsense. Talent wins, period. Either you have it or you don’t. And we can a huge chunk of it this year, Just wait..
by JHTruth on Jan 20, 2007 11:16 AM EST reply actions
I pretty much expected this after they started the season 1-6 with everyone except West allegedly healthy— and that was the easiest part of their schedule.
As for the draft, even a pick in the 5-7 range could net an impact player, e.g. Spencer Hawes or Tiago Splitter. That’s how strong this draft is. I would absolutely love Splitter. He a 7 footer who plays ferocious defense and he’s NOT a project, having been for the past three years a star on the best team in the world not in the NBA (Tau Ceramica).
So I’d like to see Rivers continue to play the kids, and I’d like to see at least one veteran moved prior to the trading deadline. If it’s Pierce, so be it. They weren’t doing that well when he was healthy. I also think that Telfair and Gomes need to be moved. Each has some value around the league, but neither one is a long-term solution for the Celtics. If I were the coach, I’d be giving Powe all of Gomes’ minutes at the 4. Powe’s midrange jumper is probably as good as Gomes’, and unlike Gomes, Leon doesn’t get stuffed every time he tries to score inside. Ideally, we could trade one or both of those guys to a good team for a pick in the 20’s so that Ainge could add someone like Rudy Fernandez, Marco Belinelli, Glenn Davis or Kyle Visser (whom I like better than McRoberts).
Meanwhile, I’d like to see them win a smattering of their games, to give the kids a taste of vistory. Thirteen more wins is about right. That would leave the Celtics with 25 for the year and well placed in the draft, even if the ping pong balls were unkind.
This season, if nothing else, should be instructive toward those who want to go into ‘go for it now’ mode. Even the best laid plans and a blockbluster trade probably couldn’t save this season. Imagine if we had traded for Iverson? With Pierce out, we’ve probably gotten to the best place imaginable. Gerald is getting real minutes, Al Jefferson has been forced to become a player, and other young ‘uns are seeing court time, and Doc isn’t stuck in between trying to win and trying to develop. Having a 2nd superstar who could keep us competitive would have made all of this even worse. You just can’t control for injuries, especially injuries to your superstars, and the effect they can have on an entire season is so amazingly drastic.
by teddykgb on Jan 20, 2007 11:28 AM EST reply actions
Once Pierce comes back this team will be just good enough that our pick in the draft will be outside of the top three. Can we get an impact player there, absolutely, this is shaping up to be the best draft in a long time.
by Dino Radjas Fadja on Jan 20, 2007 11:30 AM EST reply actions
I feel exactly as you do Jeff…unless we deal for a Garnett, Jermaine, or even Marion at the deadline, then I will just have to continue watching games on tv and going to the “Gah-en” (as Telfair puts it in the commercial) wanting the young players to perform extremely well, but still wanting to lose by 5 or less…those types of losses can help a team learn to win- blow outs are a sign of giving up.
What I root for is development — of players individually and of a playing style/system. Well, the latter I’ve pretty much given up hope on as long as Doc is coach, but we have been seeing some of the former, and that’s why the games still have an aspect of fun for me.
The “culture of losing” factor can be worrisome, but really, there’s only one team each year that is truly a winner. As long as the guys continue to play hard and show progress, I think we can discount that. Most of them, even (especially) the high school guys, were used to winning: one or two losing seasons won’t permanently damage them anymore than the spirits of the Spurs players were crushed the year before they got Duncan.
We should all do what I do. Root for the Celtics to lose, but for Green and Jefferson to have monster nights. Then when you want to see wins, turn on the suns game!!! watching them play basketball is a pure joy. especially when you are going to make a nice paycheck when they go over 55 1/2 wins…
If everything works out, this will be our ridiculous starting lineup for next season…
West (12 pts. 6 assts 5 rbs)
Green (15 pts. 4 rbs)
Pierce (24/6/9)
Durant (17/3/8)
Jefferson (18/12)
by rickyfan3.0... on Jan 20, 2007 11:46 AM EST reply actions
“. . . be yourself and never fear thus to be naked to the eyes of others. Yet know that men so often mask themselves that what is simple is rarely understood. The dust of truth swirls and seeks its own cracks of entry and a tree falling in the forest without ears to hear makes no sound. Yet it falls.” – Master Po
Keep the faith Ranter – the truth will find it’s own place of entry
Quilt?…Why? Jeff you are feeling Guilty for not being Naive. You and I both no if we make it to the Playoffs nothing good will really coming. If you say experience than i ask what experience can this team gain from a 4 game sweep. If we get a top 3-5 Pick we might have something Great. I know you heard this befor, but Next year. I personally am trying to make myself care less by missing games on purpose, but the fact that i’m here shows that isn’t working.
1-13 since Pierce got hurt cannot be ignored and is insulting to the paying customers. The Celtics must show that they can play (and coach) a 4th quarter (when most NBA games are decided). Yes, the injuries have been a valid excuse but every team has injuries and the game goes on. For Doc to say “We were in this one” is lame. Every team is in every game (OK, occasional blowouts)and the 4th Qtr decides. For the prices charged for tickets the owners/GM/coaches/players owe all of us better value. Maybe it’s about to turn. If it doesn’t then I can’t see Doc coming back. Find a way to win one once in a while Doc. Play Powe instead of Perk. Play some D in the 4th Qtr for a change. Get some attitude in the game. I don’t expect a playoff team but I don’t expect a disgrace either
Once Pierce went down and it was clear he wasn’t going to be coming back for a month, I started rooting for the #2 pick in the draft.
I am not ashamed to admit that a top 2 draft pick will make this team much better than any trade outside of acquiring a superstar in the Garnett mold could do.
I am simply rooting for my team to become better in the future because this season is lost.
Priorities for the Off-Season:
Draft Oden or Durant
Trade Wally
Use Ratliff in a trade for a veteran PG with some youngn’ns (Kidd)
Kidd
Pierce
Green
Durant
Jefferson
And some combo of west/gomes/perk/rondo/bassy remain
1st Year, In the playoffs maybe get to conference Championship
2nd Year, Finals
3rd year, Champions, possible repeats
Kidd will be gone after year 2 and unless we want to re-sign him, Rondo will be good enough to run the offense for a champion by then and we would be under the cap to get a solid Vet.
by Stan Van GULLY on Jan 20, 2007 11:58 AM EST reply actions
I’d like to know what’s up with Doc’s fascination with Gomes. The last two games he has played him the entire game. Come on, Gomes is not that type of player, Leon Powe should be getting a lot of the minutes that Gomes is getting.
Gomes is undersized, slow, can’t create offense and a secondary player with a limited ceiling. Why invest such heavy minutes in a player that is at best no more than an 8th place rotation player on a good team.
Nobody enjoys losing, but if the Celts are going to lose let’s invest the minutes wisely to those players that have the greater potential and upside.
Perhaps it’s wishful thinking on my part, I’m hoping the heavy minutes Gomes has been given are the result of being showcased.
by DAS on Jan 20, 2007 12:24 PM EST reply actions
Jeff, don’t feel guilty! It is what it is. This team hasn’t come together and overachieved minus the superstar because they are way too young and still cannot play any sustained defense. Not one good stop here or there but sustained defense. So the loses will mount and we will be very much in play for the lottery’s high picks. Remember that having the worst record doesn’t guarantee the top pick. If we finish with one of the top five worst records we will be in good shape. So a few wins here and there won’t kill us. You need to look at the lottery as our best chance for real talent aquisition as opposed to any deadline deal so try to learn to be content with the losses and don’t let it eat you up! I won’t completely didmiss the culture of loseing aspect as you mentioned but I think adding the 1st, 2nd or 3rd pick in the lottery will out weigh that this year anyways.
West (12 pts. 6 assts 5 rbs)
Green (15 pts. 4 rbs)
Pierce (24/6/9)
Durant (17/3/smilies/cool.gif
Jefferson (18/12)
Those stats are not universal. You can only take that many shots per game, so while now Jefferson and Green are scoring 15-18 per game, that doesn’t mean they will do the same with Pierce in the lineup, who will demand his 20 shots per game.
“. . . be yourself and never fear thus to be naked to the eyes of others. Yet know that men so often mask themselves that what is simple is rarely understood. The dust of truth swirls and seeks its own cracks of entry and a tree falling in the forest without ears to hear makes no sound. Yet it falls.” – Master Po
Keep the faith Ranter – the truth will find it’s own place of entry
I’m really starting to wonder who Master Po[et] is and what he does as a living. Master Po is crazy ;D Anyways I agree and Nice quote.
Let’s all face it, Jefferson would NOT be puttin up these numbers with a healthy Pierce in the lineup. Piece just demands the ball too much. So it is noce that Jefferson is putting up these inflated numbers now to raise his trade value. Maybe by the deadline, we could put him in a deal with the Clips: Maggette/Cassell/Clips #1 pick for Szczerbiak/Jefferson/West
I could live picking 5th.
I think J. Wright can play the 4 in the NBA. Dallas only has one superstar(Howard and Terry are not superstars). They manage to survive.
Wade went 5th
by Nerf MVP on Jan 20, 2007 1:49 PM EST reply actions
Yeah Jeff I have on more than one occassion been filled with joy as we lost because of the playing time and production of Gerald,Al,Rajon and now West. I also looked at the bottom of the standing hopeing the bottom feeders win as we lose. I agree with Brickowski the 5-7 pick can produce an impact player for us. I too, Like Splitter-inspite of his troublig Bcak this year. I would like to see all our young guys perform and do well including Gomes, Powe et al so we can off load one or two with Wally for a pick or better position in the draft. as Gerald matures along with the rest of the team, the need for a veteran is no longer a presssing so i think asecond position in the first round of the draft draft is a better proposition for us. rather than getting a midlevel talented player. The reality is we will never get a super star for Wally or Ratliff I would only hope perk heals and get it together as Al Jefferson has done. I still hope for a front line that consist of Perk and Jefferson. The lottery this year[ Next year a winning season and a run at the conference Championship.
by Freeease1 on Jan 20, 2007 2:49 PM EST reply actions
I think you are overrating the impact of Pierce coming back. Right now, they are 12-26. Suppose Pierce doesn’t come back for 10 more games, and they go 2-8 until then. That puts them at 14-34. That would mean Pierce would be there for the final 34 games. So, with Pierce back, they may go 14-20 in their final 34 … about on Pace with what they did when Pierce was here so far this season. That leaves them with 28 wins. I don’t think 28 wins is automatic 5-7 range. Anyway, even with Pierce there is still definite hope of getting top 3.
ur article was exactly the same experience i had last night…its nice to know im not alone in my suffering. however, we both understand for this team to come back to relevance and be competitive for a championship, we need oden durant wright. we may be against this team (‘06-07 celtics) but remember youre a dedicated fan to the Boston Celtics Franchise…and that’s what we live for
The “culture of losing” is not what worries me. As Doc is right in that we have been in mostly all the games. You know when the culure of losing is there when the blowouts happen, players give up. In most all these games there have been some pretty impresive runs, coming back from some big deficits. That doesn’t lend to a culture of losing. If players were dissing each other in the locker room in the media. This is when a culture of losing has taken hold.
The thing that worries me more is this “culture of tanking” coming from the fan base. I can only think that the fans that lend to this thinking must be young fans. Fans that rooted for the Celtics in the dynasty years, in either the 60’s, or 70’s or early 80’s understand the words “CELTIC PRIDE”. I stated this the other day that what ML Carr did in the Duncan “tank” was the worst black mark on a once proud franchise. And what happened? Did we get Duncan? NO! Who got him, the Spurs, who like Motown pointed out when PP first got injured, they fell into the lottery because thier franchise player got injured. Did they have the worst record? NO! I can’t remember the actual position but I believe they were around 7. So if were in the lottery, no matter how many balls we have we only need our’s to pop up at that right time. Only one ball can come through that hole at a time.
What your experienceing Jeff is what I said when PP first went down, it’s become a win/win. You want the win, as a Celtic Fan because of your deep rooted tradition into “Celtic Pride”, yet when the win is not there you still get the win feeling through knowing your increasing the odds on the lottery and the development of our young players. Both root back to building towards banner 17. Your mind and soul has reached a balance to watch the game without breaking your heart. So don’t feel bad, because your not out there publicly yelling “Tank”, because when that happens you’ve lost your “Pride”. KEEP THE FAITH, RESTORE THE PRIDE
by The Real Alaska on Jan 20, 2007 4:28 PM EST reply actions
Let’s face it. We need a top two pick this year, and pray both Oden and Durrant come out! That is the only situation I would feel is no lose for us. After that there are several “pretty sure” bets, but I don’t want to go thru a season like this for a “pretty sure” thing!
If Pierce doesn’t come back, and we don’t screw things up winning a few meaningless games at the end of the season, when everyone else is tanking, I truthfully don’t see this team winning more than 4-5 more games this year!!!
Answer is an easy one; no one wants to feel guilty about losing? All the team has to do is win every remaining game in this season and we will be in the playoffs and who knows if we will win it all. The boys just have to stop losing on purpose; forget about the lottery and win every game. good things happen from winning, so thats all the boys have to do. Win them all and no more losing attitude. Its as easy as that.
Who says we are losing on purpose? Danny say it? Doc said it? The top brass said it? We are what we are. For 20 years we have been what we are. We just have to stop being what we are. Just give the team the formula for winning and its all over. Pennnat Número 17 is tired of waiting for us. Let!s go kids.
You worried about a culture of losing? Draft Joakim Noah. The Final Four MVP willed the Gators to the national championship with a combination of talent, leadership and passion. Most likely Oden and Durant and the Wright Brothers will have won nothing by draft day.
by ThickNThinFan on Jan 20, 2007 5:27 PM EST reply actions
There’s two things on the line to win this year. Win the championship or win the lottery. I don’t think we have much of a chance to win the championship.
Last year Toronto had a lot of youth and lost a lot of games but they were in most every game. The fans were down on the coach. Sound familiar?Maybe someone could correct me if I’m wrong but I believe they ended up third to the last in the standings and then lucked out and jumped to number one with the balls. They should be getting better each year while they grow. I think they will be the Celts competition for the future of this team if we can do what they did in the draft. The Celts don’t need to get the number one pick though, as long as they get a real high pick.
If we are getting one of the top two picks, it will be from the luck of the ping pong balls. We won’t get below the 6th pick unless we are lucky. If Pierce comes back and we start winning, like I believe we will, then the young guys will have confidense in their games and Pierce will make us the winning team that we would have been before the injuries killed this season.
"1st Year, In the playoffs maybe get to conference Championship
2nd Year, Finals
3rd year, Champions, possible repeats "
- LOL, that was pretty hilarious…
by Rainman on Jan 20, 2007 7:11 PM EST reply actions
[I]"You worried about a culture of losing? Draft Joakim Noah. The Final Four MVP willed the Gators to the national championship with a combination of talent, leadership and passion. Most likely Oden and Durant and the Wright Brothers will have won nothing by draft day. "[/I]
- I hope to god you are not advocating drafting Noah over ANY of those guys. Noah is an overrated stiff…
by Rainman on Jan 20, 2007 7:16 PM EST reply actions
Had we taken the player development approach in the past, we might
still have Billups and Joe Johnson. Those guys coupled with Pierce and Al, and we’d be winning the Atlantic easy, challenging for the East. The short-term wins and losses don’t really matter if the guys on our team are getting better.
by Lunchpail on Jan 20, 2007 8:09 PM EST reply actions
San Antoinio didn’t tank to get Duncan that’s just it, Robinson got injured the Spurs were 7 or higher in the lotto until thier ball came up. The C’s tanked we had the worst record, and you know the rest of the story.
by The Real Alaska on Jan 21, 2007 3:08 AM EST reply actions
Oh and jhtruth is wrong, Pierce will be back, because he has something some of you just don’t understand, “Pride”, he’ll never fake a injury or not give his all.
by The Real Alaska on Jan 21, 2007 3:15 AM EST reply actions
Wow were you folks wrong on Gomes. I believe he had 31 points last night. Again you need to play to a players strengths and not his weaknesses.
Did anyone notice that GMoney is starting to feel the pressure of Doc? Obviously last night was a good example as he makes a mistake and in come Allen Ray. OK the the kid had a career shooting game but when the game was to be tied he got stuck with the ball and Doc screams at Gerald. The shot should have been Delonte as he had the ball and was open and is the experienced player not GMoney or Ray. Another coaching blunder.
Great article Jeff. Hey Das, I hope you saw what that slow footed, can’t create his own shot with a limited ceiling player did last night. Gomes!
Next time at least don’t include the comment that he he has a low ceiling
LOL
by clipit89 on Jan 21, 2007 11:59 AM EST reply actions
Alaska said:
“San Antoinio didn’t tank to get Duncan that’s just it, Robinson got injured the Spurs were 7 or higher in the lotto until thier ball came up. The C’s tanked we had the worst record, and you know the rest of the story.”
Wrong. San Antonio had the 3rd worst record in the league, finishing just ahead of Vancouver and Boston. Vancouver was not eligible for the #1 pick in the draft, so San Antonio, by tanking, got themselves the second highest probability of getting the #1 pick.
They absolutely tanked, and they had a terrible finish as a result.
I’ve gotten over my guilt with this rationalization: Let Paul Pierce rest! 1} He is the franchise. NO reason to risk his health this year. 2}Gives playing time to sort out the youngsters; who’s a keeper, who isn’t. 3} I can root for them to win, because they won’t anyway!!!
by acearle on Jan 21, 2007 1:18 PM EST reply actions
grasping at straws/ what if what if what if.I’m done with looking into the future. I’m going elsewhere for my entertaiment. I didn’t even know there was a game last night, and I use to clear my schedule to watch the games. I don’t feel like being depressed. It’s time to put performance clauses in every single one of these players’ contracts. They lose $1,000 for each free throw missed. They don’t get paid if they lose. Time to get harsh. The NBA is now a players league? Good. Live by the sword and die by the sword. I’m sick of it. At the begining of reach year, the GM sits down with each player, and works out what they are expected to do – Jeff – 20/10? Fine. You get your salary if you get those numbers each day. Less, less money, more, more money. Harsh? You bet. It’s harsh in my job, it’s probably harsh in yours. You wanna play in the NBA? How badly? Cousy, Sharman, those guys had summer jobs because they played because they loved it. Stop paying these guys so much money. It is the root of all evil.
The Nets are a team that warms up as the season goes, now they are 8-2 last 10 games, opposite of our 2-8. I do think the Raptors are a few paces ahead of us even with Pierce and Wally back. Arguably the Knicks may be as good as us too, even with Pierce and Wally.
So play the kids, keep Doc, don’t make any trades unless it is for moving Wally or Telfair, then roll the dice (or the ping pong balls) at season end. Danny, any takers for Bassey= will any other team swap a #7 with us for him? No, top 15 pick?, No, how about a late first round pick? Going once, going twice…
by bceltfan on Jan 21, 2007 11:51 PM EST reply actions
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