Bulpett Has Sources Too

What’s the point of trading Jefferson for Gasol? If they even think about it I will officially give up any possibility that Danny Ainge is in possession of brain cells.

Good player getting a lot of money when he seems to get injured at the start of every year because he is wearing himself down playing the offseason tournaments with Spain.

Besides the fact that our best chance of landing a big time player is in the draft coming up and if we trade our draft pick, Gasol is a bust and it turns into a top 5 pick I will never forgive the Celtics. It would be another stupid move to go along with the stupid moves of the past. Danny has avoided the big stupid one yet and this could turn out to be it. I for one hope he keeps his sanity. Especially since Jefferson has turned into a nightly double double guy just as Gasol is.

Pau Gasol wants a trade to a contender. Wyc trades for Telfair in order to save money. Gasol on the Celtics means two guys aith contracts and young talent coming up for extensions. Does this sound like something either Gasol or the Celtics want?

sorry folks, I meant “Gasol on the Celtics means two guys with Max contracts…”

There is no question that at this stage of development Gasol offers the Celtics MORE than Jefferson does. It should also be apparent that Gasol has reached his prime. What remains to be seen, however, is Jefferson’s stage of development and his eventual upside. His rate of improvement year-to-year has been remarkable (consider his ranking for double-doubles).

Jefferson wants to remain a Celtic whereas Gasol may be reluctant to play here since his preference, if dealt, would be to play for a top echelon team. Also to be considered is the supposed high draft choice that the Celtics may have coming their way. We could be in line to acquire a franchise-type player through this draft. Should we risk losing that draft pick plus Jefferson?

Why not also look at the financial cost difference between what Jefferson will command in salary (plus a high draft pick’s salary) versus what Gasol now commands. We have not yet speculated on each player’s longevity considering their respective ages.

The downside of not making the trade now could be the timing of Paul Pierce’s productive life as a Celtic. Yet, is Gasol enough to propel us toward a championship?

It would appear that Gasol is available (much like Allen Iverson was available) but the cost appears too high at this juncture. Sometimes the best trade is the one that isn’t made. Gasol is not Shaq nor is his potential contribution of that ilk.

Sometimes the best trade is the one that isn’t made.

Agreed:

From that same Sam Smith Chicago perspective story Jeff sent regarding Gasol: “The worst deal of the off-season could be the Celtics’ for Sebastian Telfair. They dealt the draft pick the Trail Blazers used for Brandon Roy. Telfair has fallen behind rookie Rajon Rondo and Delonte West and rarely plays. In Portland, the overhyped Telfair was beaten out by Steve Blake, which should have been a hint. …”[/b][b]

Actually I think Gasol would be a nice fit on the Celtics— but not at the cost of Jefferson.

I still think Gasol is going to the Bulls.

If Gasol has any say in it, why would he come to the Celtics? To get him the C’s need to peel off some of their good young talent (not Telfair or Perk, or Ratliff’s expiring contract, you dreamers)so Gasol moves over from bad to mediocre. I like him but he can’t be that stupid.

Gasol is a seven foot all star who is 25 years old. Yeah he makes a lot of money but seven footers who can score and rebound always do. You guys think Jefferson’s next contract is going to be cheap if he continues to be even a 15 10 guy?

You never know how a guy is going to react once he gets the big money. Jefferson is playing for his NBA life right now. Once he gets a gaurenteed forty or fifty million who is to say he is not going to regress? No one. Maybe he gets it maybe he doesn’t. There is no way to tell. Gasol in contrast already has his max deal and still is an all-star. Even if Jefferson completely panned out he is just a shorter lower paid Gasol.

Two guys making max? When those two guys will average 50 points and 15 rebounds between them who cares? When you have two guys making max and one of them is named Steve Francis or Wally that is a problem. When you have two guys making max and they are both all stars, that is not a problem.

If the Celtics could make this deal and tell Gasol that is ham string really hurts and that he needs to go back to Spain to get treatment, it would be a very good thing. Next year come back with Gasol, Pierce, a top five pick from this years draft, plus the rest of the cast minus Jefferson a year older and they would have something.

Our situation is so pathetic. Talking about draft positioning since January….wow… So, who are drafting at #5?

Here’s what we should do: TRADE PAUL PIERCE. It’s the perfect time to do so – everyone’s saying, “No, no no! We can’t trade him – he’s our entire franchise!” In other words, we’d be selling him at his peak. I might even trade him after the season to secure the #1 pick overall, and get two of the top 3 big men.

I was at the Indiana game (when Tony Allen blew his ACL), sitting in the 4th row – three things were abundantly obvious:

1) Sebastian Telfair is grossly undersized for the pro game.
2) Kendrick Perkins is awful. We need to get rid of him, NOW. He just might be the laziest player I’ve ever seen. They had to wait for him to walk up the court on an OFFENSIVE SET.
3) Before blowing his ACL, Tony Allen was the most dominant player on the court. He took over that game – and he was creating shots. As soon as he hurt himself, the creativity left the floor, and they began this ridiculous slide.

It’s almost as if the rest of the guys on this team are afraid to play out of Doc’s set offense most of the time. Jefferson and Green need to start getting the ball, getting clear-outs, and going at it. Make moves, get to the rim, get fouled.

I think were getting away from the real discussion here. We all agreed(majority anyway)that the price of Jefferson was to high for Gasol. Which is why I was posting that the real value in any trade would have to be the UNPROTECTED pick. Protected in anyway would in no way intice Jerry West in making a trade. With our unprotected pick along with Minnisota’s 1st round pick, along with maybe a #2 in the following year and anyone not named Jefferson would Jerry West bite? Who know’s, but that is what I would offer. Could fans here live with that? That should be the discussion.

I agree including Jefferson in the move is close to a latterial move that could hurt the franchise because of not that much upside. However, aquiring Gasol and keeping Jefferson along with Pierce, gives the C’s three players who could command double teams. Teams would find that hard to defend. I think even Gasol would see the upside of coming to Boston with that line up, and in our division who thinks we wouldn’t make immediate noise. Next year with TA coming back if he returns at full strength, Jefferson and either Rondo’s or Delonte’s (depending who remained) continued development I think we’d have a good shot of being a contender. This would be a more appropiate discussion. This talk of protecting the #1 pick and trading without Jefferson is nothing but fairy tale material one reads to help get themself to sleep at night. Now that are feet our on the ground, what do you think?

Just to add, look at what Phily took for Iverson, 2 #1 picks, and a future 2nd rounder in two good upcoming drafts should be inticing for a team looking to save money, and rebuild through the draft. Me I see some upside for both Boston and Memphis, enough who knows on Memphis’s side but that would be my deal, ball would simply be in Memphis’s court, take it or not.

How many years does Telfair have left on his contract?

You get my point extra. LOL, Another thing to consider is that the owner is trying to sell the Grizz, wouldn’t it make it more inticing for a new owner to be loaded with 3 #1 picks and a few #2 picks, small payroll and Ratliffs expiring contract, plus trading assets if you end up wing heavy (Green?)to come in and put your own stamp on the team? I think it might just be a sell.

I don’t think Boston can give up Minny’s pick because it would probably be the necessary pick to replace Gerald Green…Minny should be sufficiently terrible in the years to come as they have no cap room and limited prospects-the pick has a strong chance to role to be anywhere from 2009-2012, all years that Minny should suck…

…the key thing to remeber is its not about what we think Jerry West will do, its about competing against the best package out there for Gasol, which is currently Ben Gordon and an unprotected 1st-we can beat that without sacraficing the whole team…

As far as Bulpett is concerned…I don’t know who his sources are, but if its the GM’s then there’s no way they’re telling him what’s going on. These guys don’t give straight answers to questions like that. The C’s side would posture about “looking into it” and the Memphis side would posture with the “we’re not interested in what they’re offering” stance. That’s how it always works when teams have weeks of negotiating in front of them…

Considering the amount of circulation there’s been about Pau and the Celtics coming from inumerable sources worldwide, i’d say this has legs, but it doesn’t mean we’ve got the best package at the end of the day…

…at the end of the day the C’s may very well go into this draft season, take whomever they get and play the market then…perhaps for a cheaper veteran talent trade-wise…though with Delonte West playing as well as he is, I’d find it difficult to believe the team would acquire a PG now…nor a wing, as trading Gerald makes no sense if the return is an older wing palyer-Ray Allen, etc…

Frontcourt vet seems to be the most logical…

Gasol is a nice player but we need someone to come in here with attitude. These young players are now admitting that the “other team wanted it more”. What!!! You haven’t won in 12 games. If they wanted it more, get outta here. To get outhustled is not acceptable. Hey Doc, that is a coaching matter. C’mon, these guys like you. Is that the problem. Perk shouldn’t be playing. Play Scal until he drops or until Perk sees that hustle gets you playing time. We need to see somebody shove somebody. They are too accepting of their own 4th Qtr collapses. Somebody on the court, PLEASE, light a fire.

No way can you trade this year’s number one pick before the lottery. You don’t know what you are giving up. What if the balls did come up right and you just traded Oden or Durant for Pau Gasol? You just can’t take that chance.

Philly got ten cents on the dollar for Iverson. They got an overpaid, aging point guard and two first round picks that will be in the 20s. I wouldn’t take that deal for Tony Allen much less Allen Iverson. They would have been better off taking Boston’s deal but they have a stupid GM. Memphis should get more for Gasol. West isn’t stupid, but he may not get what he wants. The trade market just isn’t that great.

This is the opportunity we’ve all been waiting for DA to capitalize on! Let’s go get Pau!

Folks, once Paul gets back, the C’s are not going to be terrible, and thus are unlikely to get a top-three pick. We can’t keep stockpiling youngins, especially when FIVE of them are free agents at the end of next year (Gomes, TA, Delonte, Bassy and most importantly, Big Al).

I think that a package of Gerald, Bassy, Gomes, Ratliff, Scal and our first for Pau, Chucky and Cardinal gets it done. That’s a better package then Gordon and the pick (which will likly be similar to ours), especially if we take on the difference between Cardinal and Scal’s contract (about $3 mil/year).

Oden is going to stay in school, and now wea aren’t getting Gasol?! How depressing.
At least go get Maggette, we need SOMEONE of star quality to play alongsdie Pierce…

I still can’t accept the logic of holding onto our draft pick at all costs…sounds like a gambler’s fantasy, where despite the odds stacked grossly against, the gambler lets it ride on faith…

…it’s not like the choice is Oden/Durant or oblivian…if you add a player of Pau Gasol’s stature to a lineup with Paul Pierce and a burgeoning Al Jefferson, you are going to contend for the NBA title…

Also important to remember is that the team will still have moves to make…Wally’s money coming up, the continued development of remaining youth, Minny’s ‘09-’12 pick, MLE…etc…taking a major step forward like this is a smart move…

…worst case scenario standing pat…Gasol is moved, KG and JO stick with their teams or go elswhere, Celtics get talented but young Hawes/Horford/McRoberts whom they have to wait for another 3 seasons before becoming productive nightly, Pierce passes his prime, team entirely dependant on youth to be “enough” 5 years from now…

Oden is awesome, but even the best can be beat…a team with 2 dominant frontcourt players and a HoF wing can compete with anyone…

“Philly got ten cents on the dollar for Iverson.”

You really believe that?

Philly was horrible with Iverson. Miller’s a solid PG, they got an ending contract in Smith and two draft picks to go along with thier own.

They’ve already got a bookend in Iggy and are pretty much guaranteed a top 5 pick in the draft. Add that to a solid PG and 3 more young players in the top 32 picks in the draft and I don’t think they did bad for themselves at all.

“They would have been better off taking Boston’s deal but they have a stupid GM.”

You don’t know what Boston’s offer was. Unless it had Jefferson in it, they’re better off with the Philly offer, no matter whom was offered.

I always said Ainge was smart, and he would be very stupid to trade Big Al, his future is right here in the Boston Garden, by now I think everyone knows it.

Eric W, as always I highly respect your opinion. But don’t you think wings are the most available players out there. I would think we’d still have our own pick to fill that need in later years, than need Minn.

John K I respect your opinion but if your a gambler, you have to look at the odds. Bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush. Best over all odds we may look at is what 20% chance if we kept the pick. But at least you offered your voice, I think this is the real discussion. Hey I’m certainly no expert in Bball, (leave that to Eric W and others) but I am an analitical thinker.

Smarterthaneve, The slide didn’t start when Tony Allen was injured. The slide started when Paul Pierce was injured. The games the Celtics won since the Pierce Injury (2 games), Wally Z, Scals, Allen and West all played well.

oh and Eric W, on Jerry West my refference to his thinking was two fold, one the idea of offering a protected pick from West’s perspective, and the 2nd in any negotiation or war it is always smart to understand your avesary’s thinking. Sun Tui, The Art of War

There are no guaranties in the draft lottery. Oden may stay in school and we might get the 4th pick even with the worst record. If 4 years ago when Ainge took over he would have told you guys to just wait 4 years and we will have the worst record in the NBA then we could get a dominate player we would have ran him out of town. It is embarrasing to be a Celtic fan today. And as far as tanking the season, we did that 10 years ago and what did it get us. The Boston Celtics used to be the model franchise in the NBA, my how times have changed. And dont get me started on Doc. I live in Orlando so I have seen his act up close before. Ainge has driven this franchise in the ground,with help from Doc,and he should pay the price. A trade for Gasol would help but I am sure he has told Memphis he aint interested in Boston. The weather, the management,the coaching and the team aint good so I doubt he is trying to get traded here.

A bird in the hand is not necessarily better than two in the bush when the bird in hand is a 75 million-dollar bird. Gasol takes away all of your cap flexibility through 2011. Also remember that Delonte West and Al Jefferson each have three more lifetime NBA playoff wins than Gasol.

Coco- to answer your question about who we are drafting at #5??? Nobody special, and nobody worth going through this year for. There will be a lot of celtics fans feeling left in limbo this summer, because if it isnt number 1 or 2, its not a special draft class.

If its possible to get Gasol without giving up jefferson, I think you have to go for it. And with regard to someone stating Gasol might not want to come here, tough luck. Gasol has no power as to where he gets traded to, their are no no-trade clauses in this league and the league, I believe, created some sort of player penalty for any player that refuses to go to the team that traded for him.

For me, this is the most annoying and ridiculous thing that has happened to the NBA. Players demanding trades to teams that have a better chance to win. If they want to win so bad, why don’t they work harder for it. Plus, their have been a number of great players that haven’t won a championship and their not crying over it.

The only reason not to trade Jefferson in a deal to get Gasol in because Gasol hasn’t shown that he will completely recover from foot surgery (who knows, he could be another Bill Walton and ultimately require multiple surgeries). But if you could get the Gasol from last year who put up 20.9 ppg, 8.9 rpg, & 4.6 apg while carrying his team in the loaded West to 49 wins (and then led his country to the gold medal in the World Championships), then youâ€â"¢d have to move Jefferson for him. Al is nice, but letâ€â"¢s face the facts: the Celtics are 2-17 with him as the primary option. I donâ€â"¢t doubt that he will be an all-star in the near future… but the Pau Gasol of last year was a borderline MVP candidate.

We are not getting Gasol……… Fact

1.) Why would Jerry West trade with us for Ratliff, Telfair, and whomever else… makes no sense

2.) Danny is much smarter now and understands how to operate around the league…..Danny of 4 years ago would have made the trade by now…..but I think Danny is much more patient and willing to see how things turn out before he does anything..

3.) With respect to Oden and Durant…. They are 1-2 or vice versa with respect to being the next franchise player….. Some people here need to know how to judge talent…. these two guys have it ….

4.) Wait till things pan out before most of you fall off the Tobin Bridge … Just because things are going bad with this team there is no need rip them apart … Look at the total picture… especially if everyone is healthy come next year and we have either Durant or Oden

5.) Oden and Durant are 20 years old………….. Gasol is 26….. enough said….

6.) The unknown….. and there is so much here …. I’m a believer and always will be with this team…. I said I’m excited about this team…. well I am .. this team is experiencing up’s and down’s and lots of growing pain…. how else would you expect these kids to grow…. remember they are doing it by themselves at the moment without Veteran Leadership.

7.) Veteran Leadership does count for something… doesn’t it? So who’s out there with these kids who lead them at the moment…. no one .. that’s my point

8.) These kids are cramming for a final exam…. so expect them to be up and down and inconsistent at the moment

-Pau Gasol @ 21-22 averaged 17ppg/8rpg in 36 min.
-Al Jefferson @ 21-22 averaging 14ppg/10rpg in 31 min.

-Pau Gasol also has never averaged a double double in his career and he is in his 6th season.

This is why Al will not get traded for Gasol. No way would we give up Al who is younger and is doing something this all-star hasn’t done in his career and at the same time take on a max contract. Do not expect much more a Theo Ratliff trade either, because a portion of that expiring contract will go into resignings and i’m guessing it would be for Al.

its all so hopeless since the group here can only discuss things that aren’t fun to discuss right now and have no control.

Al we can do is think about the potential we now have that we can see, which wasn’t perfectly clear before the season. And we know some downside that we could’t be so sure of either:Al is gonna be good; Tony recaptured his rookie year and then took at least one big step past it; Powe can rebound at this level..might be a solid pf back up; Rondo is converting on some of his potential and desreves a big chance; Bassy is not and should be traded; West has come back and is playing as he has at his best; Perk is an ok back up at best; Gomes has good trade value, and is a good player but is an ill fitting piece on a good team, probably. etc

I dunno, but I think this is progress

Am I missing something? The point of adding a big vet is to compliment Al, not replace him. A team with Gasol in the high post, Jefferson in the low post, Pierce and west is a good team. That team could win the division and hopefully make a run at the eastern conference finals (not this year). I think you have to get him if the opportunity is there. The problem is convincing Jerry West that we have the best package while finding a way to keep West, Pierce and Jefferson. I still think it could be done.

This may be stating the obvious but no matter who we acquire in trade or in a draft, we still need a new coach to make any progress. Gasol, Jefferson and Pierce would be great.

Hey Alaska….You’re absolutely right about any protection on the draft pick hypothetically going to Memphis. They wouldnt do the trade if the pick was top 3 or lottery protected.

Hey Greenfan, thanks for answering the REAL QUESTION here.

Oh I guess you didn’t answer it, (just confirmed it needs to be unprotected)would you trade it UNPROTECTED,of course without Jefferson?

who are you extraRondo?…it’s like you are reading my thoughts. Ditto to everything you have posted here today.

I’d love to get Oden as much as anyone, but I missed the part where we actually get him…..again, how exactly do we get him?….or do we just use the FORCE…..

…maybe someone has insider information on PP mysteriously missing the entire season..

Coco if you need the Force one must summon Master Po! :D

Jeff next poll should be would you trade #1 pick unprotected for Gasol while protecting PP and AJ

Actually I think the Grizzlies would rather have a point guard. Cap space would definitely be nice. A first rounder would be icing on the cake. Hakim Warrick is better than Jefferson. :-*

I was thinking along those same thoughts oldlakerguard44. I like Warrick a lot. I think he could turn out to be better.

Here is a link to what one writer says is a the way a trade for Gasol would/should go down

I dont like it much. But then I wonder if I overrate Al Jefferson.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/ian_thomsen/01/30/nba.thomsen.deal0205/index.html