C's Can't Pull Off Upset

Well it was an exciting game and generally a fun one to watch. I was certainly pleased in the 1st half with the plays they were running and substitutions that were made.

Of course, the 2nd half was a different story. Great to see the intensity throughout and Gerald taking it to the hoop, real fun to watch him. I started getting real frustrated tho with the substitutions in the last 15-20 min of play, namely:

1) First and foremost, why the hell was Wally in there so much. He is not healthy, he plays worse ‘D’ than pre-injury, and he can’t shoot. Whenever they needed a 3 or key play he’d miss, including the game winning attempt when Gerald was open.

2) Why was Gerald not in there more in the 2nd half (and don’t tell me foul trouble)? He also shoots the 3 so much better than Wally.

3) When Jefferson has 11 points in the first 10 minutes, and ends the game with 8/12 fg shooting… he isn’t getting the ball enough in the last 3 QUARTERS.

4) Rondo should have come in more, but that was relatively trivial.

5) The officiating wasn’t as bad as Tommy H made it out to be, but it was certainly lopsided and poorly executed. It’s almost as if the Refs make up their mind what to call (foul or no foul) at the beginning of a drive to the hoop.

All in all it was fun to watch the intensity that every Celtic brought. Also, knowing that the Celtics (for now) have Big Al, Tony Allen (great defense all game), and Gerald for awhile makes me happy.

It was pretty clear tonight that Wally is struggling and that he isn’t rising to the level of the younger guys when they are playing with intensity (crashing, rotating, etc.), nevermind the fact that his shot is off. You might think, “Well, this team would have beaten the Cavs if they’d had Paul Pierce.” But a problem remains, because the 40 minutes that Paul will get back will probably not come from Wally, but from Tony Allen and Gerald Green, who have been playing admirably.

seriously everyone i know tonight was tough . . but think about how good we will be in one year, 2 years, 3 years, and what a piece of crap that cleveland team will be . . . NO TRADES . . unless we are dumping wally

That was a really good game — I think we ran more discernible plays that resulted in high quality shots in this one game than we had in the past month. Let’s not be fooled into thinking the Cavs gave their best effort, especially in the first half; but it was good to see us come back (almost) from 10 down in the fourth quarter, when they were playing hard. Yes, some of the substitution patterns puzzled me as well — would have liked to see Powe get some minutes and yeah, Wally is just not making enough shots to justify his minutes. But imagine Pierce getting Wally’s minutes (and shots), and playing within this framework. If he can (admittedly a good question) we could be quite good as a team.

I enjoyed watching this game. I think the officiating was terrible. And that is why we lost

They Gerald Green Era has officially begun. He is soooo smooth. He doesn’t realize how good he is.

The jockeying in and out of green players during the final few minutes was ridiculous. Who is hot and who is cold? So many people were in and out nobody had any rythmn, and then TA lost his cool and made some dumb mistakes, and that was the game.

You knew they were losing that game when they pulled within 1 point with a little over 4 minutes remaining and Delonte tried to go 1 on 4 and shot it straight into Ilgauskus’ elbow. His “hustle” doesn’t make up for his lack of intelligence as a point guard…he is the first player I would trade from this team, assuming he can bring a reasonable return. I’m all set with 6’1 shooting guards pretending to be point guards (that aren’t named Allen Iverson).

With all that said, they really did put on a great show tonight and it was fun to watch. Even though I am obviously no fan of Delonte, I thought even he played pretty decent for the most part. And I agree with whoever said Al should have got more shots in the last 3 quarters.

What’s kind of sad is that you knew the Celtics were going to lose the game by the middle of the second quarter. It’s the kind of favoritism that will ultimately cause people to stop watching NBA basketball and find other diversions.

The game was decided on two plays by LeBron: the two free throws on the blatant flop and the 3/4 court heave that the refs allowed after waving it off.

the refs are destroying the game, jus cuz were young they wont give us a break, tommy is my hero he knows the refs are killing us

Yeah Brick, the referees are in fact a turnoff of the game. While I realize no-one will “like” them, the reality is that the game should be played within set rules, and when a rule is broken the whistle should be blown. Instead, they’re not consistent and they call fouls where there none (which is more irritating than a no-call to me) and therefore interrupting the flow of the game. A basketball game needs flow, and it’s tough to do when there’s a whistle blown every 10 seconds.

Good game. I was happy with the way all of our young guys played. Substitutions a little curious at times, especially the use of Wally and GG. The minutes should have been reversed between GG and Wally. Wally played more than he deserved… 10 whole minutes more than the more productive GG. Made no sense with Wally still not 100% and not knocking down shots.

The Refs were terrible, but not the reason we lost…and Lebron certainly flopped on the 3 point attempt, but Tony needs to be smarter than that. He purposely hit Lebron on the right leg and Lebron turned that into an Oscar….they might have called it anyway, but the hit was unneccessary.

I’m actually really impressed by the players — if it was me out there and the referees were making those calls, I would probably pull a Sprewell.

ainge44 way to take one play from the game and draw a ridiculous conclusion from it . . .delonte had 8 assists . . hows that for your point guard . . he also played all out all game diving into the stands, taking it to the rack for what should have been an and 1 . . . he was clearly in serious pain (dude does not fake . . or flop like lebron ) then he gets up and proceeds to play LOCKDOWN D on hughes for the rest of the game . . .plese stop making your ludicrous comments . . sorry to go off and yes he’s my favorite player . . but i got to back him up when dudes like you say dumb crap . . im sure most would agree with my statements

FIRE DOC IMMEDIATLY

Lets see, Gerald hits 4 shots in a row… YEAH I’LL SIT HIM FOR THE NEXT QUARTER AND A HALF… – DOC

Also Gerald was wide open on the last play of the game, but Wally Casually Ignored him and threw up a garbage line drive shot….

Finally Jefferson gets taken out of the game when we clearly needed him….

I UNDERSTAND HE HAD 3 FOULS…… 3 FOULS IS NOT THE END OF THE DAMN WORLD THO….. You don’t need to sit the guy until hes ice cold in order to save him…

Cause if you do that, your not saving anything, your just ruining your chance of being a coach at the end of the week

DANNY AINGE WAS FRONT ROW OF THIS GAME

I’m curious.. what did he think? Is he thinking I need to fire this guy…. or is he really thinking yeah, Doc’s my guy????!!!!

What’s kind of sad is that you knew the Celtics were going to lose the game by the middle of the second quarter.

You knew the C’s were going to lose by the middle of the first quarter, when they couldn’t build a substantial lead despite the Cavs’ poor play.

But yeah, the refs didn’t help.

The refs and that sick 3 pointer from James decided this game. Everyone (except for Wally & Gomes) played well enough to win.

We’re so far from being relevant it’s mind-boggling.

Basically we lost by the score of that 3/4 court heave that lebron took.

With out that it would have been OT.

food for thought.

e

Forget about the fact that he shouldn’t be playing at all, how about just the last play:

You have your “second scoring option” back from badly spraining both ankles in early because of massive injury problems. He looks terrible and plays worse for the last 4 games.

His numbers are: 2-8, 3-17, 5-12, 4-14.

This game he is shooting 3-12. He couldn’t elevate over a hamster.
You give him the last shot of the game?

I guess.

Even if Gerald missed, he would have been forgiven.

Aside from that last play, this and that Nuggets home game was the best game of the season.

Also this marked a game where I was impressed with Doc in the 1st half, (because his players suddenly FINALLY understood how to execute a pick n roll…though Cleveland helped) and then promptly went back to old Doc in the 2nd half.

Just a million tiny things I’m not gonna bother losing sleep over. Please, please sit Wally, that’s all. Good night.

Another relentless rebounding avoiding performance by the mighty Scal. The McCarty Littlest Big Man trophy is going to look awfully nice on his mantlepiece.

Tony Allen aslo played very good in this game

“You dont need eyes to see you need vision” Faithless.

fire doc
trade wally
play green
win in 2009

So what else is new? Doc Rivers has been messing up the Celtics’ rotation for so long it’s no longer surprising to see him pull off what he did today, benching Gerald Green for extended periods even when he was waxing hot and pulling out Al Jefferson late in the game even when he was the lone serviceable big man the team had.

I hope Danny Ainge keeps a log of all this and does something different from his public pronouncements thus far in the offseason. This team simply can’t get to the next level if it will continue to have someone like Doc on its bench.

Bert Ramirez a.k.a. 17

We will continue to suck for as long as doc is our coach…man this is sounding like a broken record, doc sucks and everyone else knows it…what on earth did this guy do to earn a 5 million/yr.

I’m glad the C’s played them close, but this team needs to find a way to WIN. Cavs were shooting poorly all night, getting outhustled, getting nothing from their bench (which is why they’ll won’t make a deep playoff run) and they still pulled out a win.

Yes, Lebron gets the superstar calls. But that’s NBA. PP has had the benefit of those calls quite a few times.

The team needs to limit it’s mistakes & play smart. Doc’s only part of the problem.

Can anyone please explain to me why Doc doesn’t like to call timeouts? With only 6 seconds left on the clock, down by three, you don’t just tell them to run as fast as they can and just chuck one up, especially with such a good shooter as Gerald on your team. I’ve seen Doc do this before, WTF? >:( >:( >:( >:(

Because they were out of time outs (not that it would have been called if they had them)

Big play of the game was when they got the stop on a good defensive play by TA, then Delonte got a little nosy and knocked a sure rebound out of jeffersons hands. instead of having the ball down 1, Ilgauskus gets it tips it in, and we were put in a very tough spot.

Green is starting to show shades of greatness. Cant wait to really say “I am glad we didnt trade Jefferson or Green”

Speaking of not calling timeouts, what was going on during CLs 12-1 run in the 3rd? I dont recall one being called then, but certainly one should have, as they were gaining momentum. One the other hand those set plays early on were encouraging.

ps was disappointed in Bos sprots coverage of the game. All about “too much LeBron” not “young Cs’s stand up and push back.”

this is first time send-in for me a long time celtic fan. the site is great with super responders and jeff is amazing. now to the game- the celts played good defense, the effort was there and the kids delivered. the big need’i think is rebounding. they got killed last night when it counted on the boards. perkins looks overweight and slow and gomes is too small and last night was not boxing out enough.

I liked the way Telfair played a lot, hitting big pull-ups. I was starting to forget why earlier in the season I was optimistic about him at all. And I think Tony Allen has establsihed himself as simply a huge contributor to have on the court as much as possible. He’s a great defender, rebounder, will create turnovers, get fast break points and is fearless to the hole. I liked the rotation in this game, except, Green shouldn’t have been taken out when he was taking over.

Lots of agreement with everyone here! Very nice 8 assist game for delonte who will put up kidd type all around game numbers when healthy and starting. As for Ainge, why the NEED for a “true” point guard in his day DJ and ainge or other guard did just fine. Good game offensively for telfair off the bench much better than his usual (of course d is still not there) but rondo still makes me say backup for now. His d and court awareness is something special. OK Green very nice game smmmmoooth! And finally worked hard on d, which who cares if he fouls out when celts have an overstocked shooting guard / small forward team, let him play. So why did he play so well and come out? Celts trying to secretly throw the season? That would be rivers only excuse for poor substitutions. Jefferson was looking like 35 points or more in 1st quarter so why sit him….? Liked how the team looked overall! Pick and rolls, is doc starting to put plays in? How simple and effective. Love Allen and West on the floor at same time for defensive pressure and all out 110% play. Lastly, while I don’t see many takers for wally because of condition and $ he is expandable if green continues since I like allen better as starter. BUT give Wally a break he is injured OBVIOUSLY not 100% but has taped up both ankles and said “coach i can go” its up to doc to say thanks for giving me the 15 minutes a game til you are healthy but at end of game i think i’ll have someone else in for d. Defense and team play wins NBA championships

it was an exciting game especially when we were leading, but were
conditioned to lose our 4th quarter advantage so im not crushed
i would have liked to see GG have aplay called for him to take the final shot instead of the veteran. I would have liked to see if GG has that winning shot confidence or in this case the tying shot to overtime, but that mentality. also Gg was 8 for 13 and Szerbiak was 4 for 13 , oh well im sure doc had his reasons that negate mine.

md300m said: _
  Can anyone please explain to me why Doc doesn’t like to call timeouts? With only 6 seconds left on the clock, down by three, you don’t just tell them to run as fast as they can and just chuck one up, especially with such a good shooter as Gerald on your team. I’ve seen Doc do this before, WTF?
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Because you don’t give the defense time to set up.

md300m said: _
  Can anyone please explain to me why Doc doesn’t like to call timeouts? With only 6 seconds left on the clock, down by three, you don’t just tell them to run as fast as they can and just chuck one up, especially with such a good shooter as Gerald on your team. I’ve seen Doc do this before, WTF?
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Also, the players should know the situation and be able to execute properly. To me the mistake was made by DWest who went to the right side instead of to the top of the key. If he did that Wally could have been open on one side and Gerald on the other. Even DWest could have taken the shot. It’s a shot all three can make. DWest lost all his options by doing what he did. We constantly blame Doc for not developing the young players, something I think he’s done a great job at. This was a teaching moment as well as the right call by the Coach.

md300m said: _
  Can anyone please explain to me why Doc doesn’t like to call timeouts? With only 6 seconds left on the clock, down by three, you don’t just tell them to run as fast as they can and just chuck one up, especially with such a good shooter as Gerald on your team. I’ve seen Doc do this before, WTF?
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Also it did create a good shot for Wally, one he will hit almost 50% of the time.

TenaciousD said: _
  Speaking of not calling timeouts, what was going on during CLs 12-1 run in the 3rd? I dont recall one being called then, but certainly one should have, as they were gaining momentum.
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Read the book written by Larry Bird and Jackie MacMullin. There is a funny story about a similar situation when Bird coached Indiana. In this kind of case Doc would call a timeout if the team was doing something wrong, but Cleveland was just hitting it’s shots. He’s called time outs after two baskets when the team wasn’t excecuting the defense. Also, I don’t remember if there was a time-out left to call on the last play of the game, but many, not me, criticized Doc for not calling one. Another reason not to call unnecessary time outs.

connerhenry43 said: _
  celts completley outplayed the cavs, refs took this game away. i am sure he will not lose sleep over it, but i lost a ton of respect for lebron when i saw that flop.
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I was going to say this. There were also many more fouls that should have been called for the C’s that would have given us the win. I’m sure you know of the rule where the refs can call a technical on a player who is “mocking” them. This would have been the correct call on this play. TA made a very visible effort to avoid James and he was successful, TA never touched James.

wally is clearly playing injured (not hurt) and its time for him to shut it down…i wasnt a big fan of the last shot attempt, but it was a better look than an off-balance force w/ 2 teammates open. (who does that?)

anyways, the game was decided in the last 5 mins of 3rdQ when king james decided to take over and in the process got the benefit of the doubt on every call. that is NBA basketball folks. and celts didnt have a star on the floor receiving equal treatment.

i’ve said there is no such thing as “moral victories”, but that was a game to build on…

celts are 11-20 and going nowwhere….
i give up. play the kids. take the losses (last night was not a tank job). just dont think a different coach will make a difference. that is very superficial.

Lebron on how best to develop Gerald (from today’s Herald):

 Ã¢â‚¬Å"This is not like the NFL, where you can sit behind the starting quarterback for like three or four years and be ready to play,” James said after leading the Cavs to a 107-104 win last night at TD Banknorth Garden. â€Å"In the NBA, you have to be out on the court to help your game improve. So I think Gerald had a great game, and heâ€â"¢s going to keep getting better.”

Think he’d be interesting in a coaching position?
  

Three things made this game almost unwatchable:

1. The FSN production – they missed two C’s fastbreaks early when zoomed in on Big Z and they missed a GG three while throwing it to dickerson.

2. The officiating – Lebron 3, Lebron open court, Tony Allen charge, Missed call on allen underneath, and 1 for Delonte, AJ late in the game, etc. The offiicating was dreadfull.

3. Doc’s rotations. There were a couple adjustments he could have made. I would have loved to see Kandi and Jefferson in at once. Jefferson clearly couldn’t defend the Big Z. Sorry Perk fans – he looked substandard yet again. Like everyone else thought we saw too much Wally.

Since most people hate Telfair they won’t admit it, but the kid played a perfect game last night. His D was ok – which is a big improvement. He made a ton of assists early. Then when the Cavs played pass, he hit his shots. West (even tho I’m a hater) played very well too. Last night confimred to me that with a healthy Pierce: West should start, Telfair off the bench. Rondo fills in the gaps and comes in for 2pg and pressing.

For those thinking Doc isn’t playing him enough: GG had arguably his best game last night. He took the outside shots when there and at the right times. He drove to the basket twice while defended by two bigger players who were shot blockers. This is new. I don’t know how many of you saw the half-time show when the C’s were on the road. I’ve also seen it before. But it shows inside a Celtic practice and Doc yelling at GG: (because he was far away from him) “Did he stop you”? He said it twice, but the answer, which wasn’t heard was obviously “no”. Doc said to keep going till they stop you. Last nite when GG took it to the basket on those two occasions: “Did he stop you”…“NO”…and GG took it in and scored both times because no one stopped him. Teaching in practice and in games—proper execution last nite. Now tell me, just what is Doc doing wrong in developing GG. We’ve all seen amazing improvement from last year. Add to this GG’s getting on the boards. Ryan Gomes isn’t playing too well lately. Where are the calls to bench him? Last year we complained Doc only played Gomes by accident and he should have played him sooner because he was so good. We were wrong then too. I don’t think Gomes should be benched. I actually think he’s playing hurt. The point I’m trying to make is that we don’t know what goes on behind the scenes and we don’t know the “little” things that players are or aren’t doing. We’ve seen all the young players get better before our eyes and we still say Doc can’t develop young players. I’m really having trouble getting it.

I just want to add to my above comments. This team is losing, yet they are staying together and fighting in just about every game. Guys are playing hurt and refusing to not play. I have never heard a single player say or imply a bad thing about Doc. Does this not tell us something?

Lefty12, yes another coach would have probably won this game simply by playing the players that were hot. At least the fans’ cheering gives Gerald confidence, and I loved at half time when they asked him where this surge of scoring came from he responded, “Well coach decided to run a play or two for me”. Evrock had a good point in that the Cleveland coach left Ilgauskas in there b/c he was effective. What about Al Jefferson in the 2nd half? He should have gotten the same minutes as Ilgauskas and the same amt of shot attempts.

Brendan, I’m glad you’d like to see more Olowokandi, especially alongside AJ. He at least seems more helpful than Perkins.

Sorry but again, last nite the refs killed us. In prior years we would have gotten technicals for arguing, we would argue with the ref rather than go back and defend our man who was getting an uncontested layup while we argued, we would have put our heads down from frustration. Last nite the players just kept on fighting thru the officiating. This is something Doc has been stressing. Last nite and since last year this has been happening. PP didn’t get one technical last year. What is Doc doing wrong here?

Same echoes as before — some glimpses of hope. BUT too many players deserving of SOME time on the court, and a coach not smart enough to discern when. Lets hope they all continue to play well when they are in there and continue too build upon their value.

More chips we have to move this summer the better… Is gasol solid enough defensivley to make this a championship team? His contract is HUGE and would be preventiative of other complimentary moves…

I think Green is getting enough run to develop. I definately think Doc is teaching in practice. That half time clip was great. Mike Brown is awful. Why is that team playing slow down ball again?

It’s commendable that Wally, West, Perkins, and Gomes all want to play injured, but that doesn’t mean it will get them healed. The play where Allen had to foul b/c West was crumpled on the floor is one example (where was the foul call refs?), Wally’s shotting is another, Perkins total lack of elevation on defense and rebounding is a third. Gomes might be hurt or just having a more quiet stretch against bigger opponents.

Ankle sprains and calf strains will heal given rest. The player is exposed to getting other injuries due to compensating for the injury if played, as well as the possibility of making the injury worse. Plantar fascitis is one of those things that could get real bad if not taken care of and cause all sorts of compensation injuries up the kinetic chain. West’s back seems to be more of a chronic thing. He’ll probably need to dedicate himself to offseason training to get that right – so I’m ok with him playing – provided Doc manages it. He actually has enough guys, that he could play without the injured cats, would it be “uncomfortable” for him? Yes. But it could be done.

 Brendan said: _"He actually has enough guys, that he could play without the injured cats, would it be “uncomfortable” for him? Yes. But it could be done."
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Injured: known and in my opinion——Pierce, Ratliff, Olowakandi, Perk, Gomes, DWest, Wally, BIG Al (tired in my opinion). Forgetting Big Al that leaves 8 players available. Big Al would be the only center.

The C’s played good enough to win last nights game but playing Wally all of those minutes killed us, I don’t understand the need to play him when he can barely move or jump. Wally was missing shots that he would normally hit with his eyes shut but over the last few games he’s been throwing up brick after brick and Doc continues to play him for long stretches, that puzzles me a great deal.
Finally I see some continuity with the players without Pierce and I’m sure this would only help them in the long run, when Paul does return he and the team should have a new approach to playing and winning games. I am literally able to see progress with this team, Tony Allen, Al Jefferson, Gerald Green are making some big strides in the improvement of their game. Telfair has also improved a bit with his approach to being more aggressive. Delonte and Gomez are playing study but they also can and should improve as time goes on.
Perkins and Wally are very expendable at this time.
When Pierce comes back he would have more weapons on his team than he had before his injury.
The C’s have been competing and eventually their effort will be rewarded.
Gerald is going to be awesome if he continues to be aggressive and use his quickness and leaping ability to dominate his defenders

Not too dissappointed about the game. I saw glimpses of potential greatness on GG. Couple of jumps ‘a la MJ’. And especially going to the hoop with a minute and change burning LB and over Ilgauskas.

I just hate to see Doc smile after a game…no matter how we loose…a loss is a loss. And by the way, please Doc would you stop fraternizing with the opponent?

Gerald was open.

overall i think doc did a credible job. as others have said wouldve liked to have seen gerald a little more in the 2nd half and still dont get this thing where he doesnt call timeouts on the last shot. we have to dribble the length of the floor and a guy who hasnt been making shots since he got back ends up with the ball? we call a 20 and the ball is moved up to halfcourt. i just dont get why he refuses to call one there when he had just called 1 to set up the play before. i mean is he being told to lose on purpose?

tony allen’s phantom foul on lebron, when tony allen ran past punk flopper lebron james and the ref called the foul on the 3 pt attempt, cost us the game.

punk cavaliers, think there so good, gonna get their asses handed to them come post season, frikin’ punks.
as tommy said, “i wanna smack that smirk right off of damon jones face…”

Yeah seriously, when did the Cavs (including Lebron) become some punks? Outside of the zombie-like Ilgauskas, they were all arrogant bastards when they really aren’t even that good. There’s no way that team is title contending this year or next. None.

bucknersrevenge——I said earlier that a time out was not called so as to not allow the defense to set up. I read the papers after making that comment and the play seemed to have been called on the previous time-out. To me this is smart coaching. I also made a comment earlier that DWest messed up because he went to the right side instead of to the top of the key. I apologize to DWest because he did what the play called for and it was a well-executed play. The shot just didn’t go.

Fox40Kid—-Do you think Doc is smiling inside and that he’s not upset? Did you ever see him play back in the ’80’s. It’s protocol or whatever the right word is to congratulate the winning coach. Watch his face in the post-game conference or even better see him in the locker room before he goes out to the press.

Eeyore!
where you been you old mule?

coco—-have you or have you ever seen anyone smile out of frustration? As to fraternizing with the opponent….these people all know and respect each other. I really don’t see a problem with this. Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain were mortal enemies. For a long time I thought they really hated each other. Then I learned that they were the best of friends and that when Russ played in Phil he stayed at Chamberlain’s home. Larry Bird and Magic Johnson were mortal enemies. Then they met when they did a commercial together. They became the best of friends. This was not the case during a game. Doc throwing a smile at the other coach or even the ref when there’s a lull does not mean that he is not competing like hell. I think Doc’s done a great job and I won’t apologize for it. Name a coach who has had to deal with so many roster changes, injuries and especially have so many young and/or inexperienced players on his team, none of them top draft choices, 4 high school kids that’s done as good a job as Doc has. Just look at a short list of TA, GG and BIG Al and see how far each has come in a short time. I would also add Perk to this list, but since he’s just coming back from an injury and his timing and conditioning are off I’m sure this comment would be criticized. And as I said before, read and hear what the players say about Doc……..Sorry about the tirade, but had to get it out of my system.

On answering the criticism of what Doc might be doing wrong, just a couple of brief comments:

1) I couldn’t believe my ears when Danny on the Portland telecast said that both he and Doc told Delonte West not to suit up and not to play the game until he got further evaluated back in Boston. West suited up anyway, went to Doc and told Doc, I’m playing and Doc played him 31 min. I’ve been an athelete all my life. There are some injuries you can “play through”, other injuries where competing only makes it worse. West up until that game was playing poorly and hurting the Celtics, yet he told Doc he was playing. Any professional coach makes that decision to not play the guy based on the above reasons. Maybe Doc is a nice guy but a bad coach. I think many of our players respect him as a man, but privately don’t have the highest opinon of his coaching. Some say well the team isn’t complaining. What would it help. Banks complained last year, he didn’t get more minutes and they traded the guy.

2)Good point that we don’t know all that goes on behind the scenes, however I just feel in my heart another coach would have this team much further along in regard to the development on both ends of the court, especially defense. Fundamentals I don’t believe is a Doc strength and that is needed.

3) Last criticism I’ll share is that I think Doc (and many other coaches in this league) put too much emphasis on the veterans and it deters the development of the youth. Raef had no business averageing about 24 min. last year. Scal had no business getting all the minutes he had. Wally is hurt and his play is hurting us. Is he going to Doc too and saying I’m playing. There are many instances where the youngsters aren’t getting a fair share of the minutes which will help this team down the road. The silver lining to all the injuries this year is that it forces Doc’s hand in playing some of the youth like it did last year with Gomes.

bceltfan—1. Banks complained, he was traded, not for complaining but because he wasn’t doing the job they wanted him to do. I don’t think he’s playing much in Phoenix either. West, either in an interview or article described the difference between injured and hurt. If there was any chance of him causing further damage the MD and Ed Lacerte would not let him play and Doc would follow that advice. If the player was playing hurt and was hurting the team I’m sure Doc would take him out. As to Wally, I can’t explain his minutes at this time, but his basketball knowledge is higher than GG and he’s used that to help the team inspite of his poor shooting. As to Scal’s Danny gave a long list of things Scals does that aren’t noticed by most people when he did the color commentary in a half on the recent road trip.