Rosen Evaluates The Celtics

I agree with his final conclusion about what the Celts need.

Perkins might fit the role of the big man who can rebound and defend, at least when he’s healthy.

Ultimately, however, our top two priorties have to be: finding a decent pg who can defend and move the ball and getting a coach who can get this team to the next level.

Judging from Draft Express and Nbadraft.net, there isn’t a pg in our draft league.

We don’t necessarily need a Chris Paul at PG, just someone competent. If we can, I say trade Telfair and Wally to get a veteran PG, if we can, let Delonte be the backup for now and develop Rondo as our longterm option.

I’m perfectly happy with West at the point, with Rondo as his backup.

As for the power forward position, they do need someone better than Gomes defensively. Gomes has been an enigma. He did a great job on Zach Randolph, but that effort was sandwiched in-between games where he got absolutely killed by Chris Wilcox and Drew Gooden.

He breaks this whole thing down according to ONE GAME he watched? LOL Rondo had just a cameo appearance and he’s dubbed “a keeper.” LOL I do agree Rondo is a keeper, but because I’ve seen him play since his college days, not because of watching one game. This article is garbage.

Who cares what Rosen based his analysis on? I’ve watched almost eveyr minute of every Celtics game since the beginning of the year and his analysis is pretty accurate. Maybe he’s smarter than some people.

It was a little harsh to call Perkins a stiff, but not that harsh. Perk is what he is: a good defender and rebounder with no offensive game whatsoever. He’s Greg Kite redux, along with all of the fouls. Perk is a decent career NBA backup center and he’s being paid like a decent NBA career backup center. That should end the discussion.

The best analysis was on finding ways more creative ways to get AL the ball. I couldn’t agree more. First 5 games without Pierce AL went to the left block and stayed there. The last few games we have managed to put in a cross screen and a few pick and rolls. Maybe I don’t know enough about the NBA game, but in most basketball it is harder to guard a man who is screening or being screened for and moving without the ball.

I don’t think he was talking about the Cavs games. Dwight Gooden absolutely destroyed Gomes, while Sarunas Ilgauskas dominated inside. I remember those games, they were tough.

I dont agree that perk is a good defender. How about mediocre? He is a big body and decent rebounder. (Good rebounders don’t bring the ball down and let tiny guards rip it from their hands.) At the same time he has shown improvement every year in the league, so he may eventually go from mediocre backup center to mediocre starting center (or above average backup.) But Perkins is paid like a stiff center. It’s hard to see how you can complain about Kandi who is paid like a third string stiff center.

Re: Power Forward – What the C’s need is a Center or PF who can block shots, get offensive rebounds, and complement AL’s defensive and offensive game. That means play from the high post well and move better laterally. I think we can get this guy in the draft.

Re: PG – with PP & TA (who’s jumper has been smooth over the last month) in the lineup West is a perfectly serviceable point guard. Telfair is fine as a backup and Rondo is a great third stringer. I think sooner rather than later Rondo will move up the depth chart and one of the other guys (most likely Telfair) will find a new home.

More imagination…as in; play Perk and AJefferon together more often

Im all for pairing Telfair with Wally and sending them to the Clips for Cassel and a pick or whatever they want to throw out there. As long as we get Cassell.

Have Cassel teach Rondo how to play NBA point and how to use his quickness. This team hasnt had a quality PG since Kenny. PG’s dont grow on trees, they need to learn on the job. Can someone please tell the coaching staff to play Rondo 10-15 min a game.

Clearly Rosen has seen the Celtics more than just last night. He seems to understand the Celtics’ roster far better than does Doc.

We don’t need help at power forward, because that is Al Jefferson’s real position. He is a low post scorer, and a good rebounder, but he will never defend the center position, especially if paired with undersized forwards. Give Al and Perk a try together. They fit together like yin and yang; Al can score, Perk defend, and together they can control the boards.

Shawn Livingston is all growns up, let Cassel share his wisdom (and giant balls dance) with Rondo.

ThickNThinFan said:

“Clearly Rosen has seen the Celtics more than just last night. He seems to understand the Celtics’ roster far better than does Doc.”

Bingo!
 

Rosen’s analysis is on target. I disagree about Perk, I think he’ll be a very good backup at least. Telfair C-ya. Wally C-ya. Doc C-ya.

Wow I really liked that article… he obviously has seen more than just last nights game, but used the Cavs game for his examples.

Perkins will be ok when his timing comes back. Not great, but ok. Once he gets that his defense will be a bit better, rebounding definitely better, and ability to hold onto the ball will be improved. I still say he’s the only center we have who outlets the ball properly after a rebound, so there is hope.

I REALLY hope Danny trades Wally, and possibly Telfair (I like him playing more than Wally) only b/c I want to see more Rondo.

For those bashing Rosen, or saying he only saw 1 game — I’ll tell you, I read his stuff regularly and he knows basketball better than any writer around. And I bet he watches more NBA than any of them too – including plenty of Celtics games.

In fact, he knows basketball so well, his articles are usually extremely boring! He breaks down the nuances of the game in such detail that it feels like you’re listening to a coach at practice.

Jeff is right, Rosen is usually very very harsh, bashing everybody all the way up to all-stars and Hall of Famers (Barkley comes to mind). So the fact that this article is so glowing, makes me feel pretty good about the Celtics young guys. Rosen is NEVER that positive.

Pretty good article. I’m glad to see the accolades starting to come Jefferson and Green’s way. Sorry to hear that Perk may not develop to be the mini-me version of Ben Wallace.

ESPN insider has an article on which atlantic division coach is most likely to go first. Can someone post the section on Doc since his pic is plastered on espn?

Doc is listed at #2 behind Woodson (ATL) as most likely to be fired. I completely disagree, I think Rivers lasts the year for sure.
*
Doc Rivers, Boston
The “Fi-re Ri-vers” chants heard at the new Garden earlier this season have quieted down, but the losing hasn’t stopped — and things have gotten measurably worse since Paul Pierce went down with a stress reaction in his left foot. Wednesday night’s loss to Cleveland made it six L’s in the last seven games and gave the C’s a pitiful 4-11 home record.

The Pierce injury buys Doc some time, but it doesn’t make him untouchable. ODDS: 3-1

He’s wrong about Telfair along with most of the people who watch the Celtics.This Kid is 21 just like Rondo and yet why do we expect so much more from him so fast?I think he’s a keeper and i hope we don’t trade him. I think the hype he got in High School makes people look at him right now and say that “He’ll only be a 3rd string Pg” becasue he’s no producing at the rate we thought he would. He played one year in the nba and had an injury prone season last year. This season is also his first one with a new team,new town, new offense, ohh yea did i mention he’s only 21?I like Telfair and Rondo at pg and West should never play pg ever again after this year. We wont have to worry about that tho cause he’ll be gone soon anyway.Did I say Telfair was 21 Yet?

Well I subscribe to Insider and saw that. But the reason the chants have subsided is that the Celtics have been on the road, and hockey fans tend not to care so much.

It’s very popular these days to give up on Telfair and try to trade him. Telfair played a very good game last night in limited minutes. He has the most talent potential to be a really good PG. West is too slow and mechanical, and Rondo will likely never have even an adequate jump shot. (Everyone just assumes that he will develop one with practice. Sorry, I don’t see it). Telfair, on the other hand, has much better mechanics, and is a more creative ball handler. He is quicker with the dribble than Rondo, can create his jump shot. I am not bashing Rondo but am calling out all this quitting on Telfair already. Yes, he struggles on defense, but so does Rondo in half court sets. Telfair can be a great scorer; the kid holds the record for all time scoring in NY State basketball history. Think of all the great players he beat out for that distinction. That requires great talent. I know it is not the NBA, or even div. 1 college, but it is still a sign of what he is capable of. He did a couple of things, including that coast to coast move, that made me remember that he still has a very high ceiling. A coaching change that sets the reigns free for this guy is what he needs. He is only 21, people.

Telfair may be 21, but he defends like a 4 year-old.

Not a bad article but I was offended for Perk when he said he would be Kandiman in 10 yrs. OUch…and he’s wrong. WAAY OFF

Im just saying that Telfair isn’t Anything more than a Rookie by NBA standards and that the hype he recieved coming into the NBA makes people view him differently becasue they excpect more out of him to soon.

Footey, Rondo may eventually surpass Telfair and we all can see How high I am on Telfair. To say he will never develop a jumpshot is just insane. It’s not like people are born with a jumpshot, you have to work on it, its all about muscle memory and taking 2000 shots a day as my HS coach would say. He brags about how he coached Kenny Anderson on his Jumpshot during his career but I would have to see Anderson in person to varify this lol

On Telfair, he is a 40% shooter and most points ave. about 45. I think over the years Telfair can get close to that 45. On the down side, he’s a small point which isn’t bad if you can do most everything else well. I doubt his D will ever get to the level of being adequate and I think he’s destined to be a fringe starter or back up. To me he was worth a late round 1st pick or early 2nd, I think we definitely overpaid for the guy. I know he’s young and he will get better but I doubt he has a career comparable to Foye, Roy, Gay’s, etc.

On Doc, I think he is “insulated” from being fired by Danny. Danny could not say enough good things about Doc during the Portland game. Most Celtic fans seemed to be “comfortably numb” with the fact that the loses keep piling up, the drafting spot may become more secure in a perverse way of thinking, but as long as Big Al, Green, Allen improve despite the record, then so be it!

Dear Mr Rosen ,

Thank you captain obvious.

Regards

HSB.

Footey, how can you say your not bashing Rondo, when you also say “Rondo will likely never have even an adequate jump shot.”???

You even say, “He [Telfair] has the most talent potential to be a really good PG.” Im sorry but are you watching the same game? And please don’t say Telfair plays better or equal defense as Rondo.

As far as speed with the dribble, again, have you seen Rondo play?

The best part is your asking for patience, pointing out Telfair is only 21. Guess what…Rondo’s 20.

I’ve seen all I need to see of Telfair and Rondo to know Rondo will end up being the better point. Shooting can be taught, and don’t forget, Rondo is a TRUE PG.

Telfair could practice D for th next decade like his life depended on it and not be as good a defender as Rondo is now. He is not going to learn to be taller, longer and a better athlete. Yeah, he can learm to be a better technical defender, but is Rajon going to stop learning himself?

He is never going be a better rebounder than Rondo is right now either. Telfair is dead last on the Celts in rebounds per 48. Rondo get more per 48 than West, Wally, Veal,and Green. He gets the same per 48 as Tony Allen. Can you see Telfair being as good a rebounder as Tony Allen? Rondo is. Fluke? Not for a guy who got 19 in a college game.

Those are just the peripheral numbers, though. Rondo, though he is getting ridiculously inconsistent playing time, is still shooting a higher percentage from the field than Telfair. Is he doing it with jumpers? No, but he showed in the Sonics game what he can do when 1. he is actually allowed to play his game and 2. he gets minutes. The guy can score, he just isn’t a good shooter yet. He doesn’t need to be a great 3 point shooter, he just needs a decent midrange game. That’s where coaching comes in. Rondo certainly didn’t look like shooting was a huge problem for him in the preseason – you know, back when he got to play.

He also shot 73% on his FTs in the preseason, including going 16 for 18 over consecutive games. I think that Rondo has put a lot of work into getting better there, but inconsistent minutes kills players at the line. Allan Ray, who shot 89% at the line in his final season at Nova, is 2 for 8 this season. It isn’t easy to do it when you get inconsistent opportunities, even when you are good at it.

Playmaking and passing? Like Telfair has ANY advantage over him. Telfair makes safe passes, but you don’t see him create that many opportunities for his teammates. Dribbling? Rondo goes pretty much anywhere that he wants to go. Speed? Rondo is both quicker and faster – that’s why he is so much better at D. Vert? Not even close – Rondo all the way.

If Rondo could shoot like Telfair does now, which isn’t all that great, he’d be one of the best PG’s in the game with everything else that he does.

It’s true that we need a true point guard. And I think we should get Andre Miller from Sixers, they want to move him also so I think we could make a deal. Something like Telfair/Rondo and Ratliff for Miller. I think Miller is one of the few good pass-first PG’s in the L.

Wow lots to read on this one! Telfair is the 3rd best pg on celts, he is expandable with west & rondo. While he’s young his defense will NEVER approach either of those players. Far down the road I’d love to see west off the bench in either guard role. Rondo is the real thing, I think telfair is around because he’s young, I don’t see the development that happens with jefferson, green or other young players. Give rondo a full game as starter and I think telfairs bag would be all but packed. Not sure if cassell is the answer, good player but where does he fit with team? I’d agree to package telfair and wally to trade but for what?? Perk…plays hard, love his shot blocking but honestly I can’t see him as starting center EXCEPT on a great team where his purpose would be to get 10 ‘bounds a game (why doesn’t he though) and block shots ala wallace with detroit. He’s trade bait, however he does seem to work very hard and improve every year but I’d say a backup. Do I like ratcliff better (healthy) big yes. As for getting a true power forward..I like Jefferson at center, blocks shots get rebounds and a serious low post threat. Does al have a jump shot from any distance? Not really which means as a power forward he really isn’t it, keep him at center. Gomes at pf gives you distance for jump shooting, pick and pops (doc listening?) and he does get the offensive rebounds. He can open up lanes for allen, pierce and west because he isn’t stuck down on the block. The man averages 10 pts a game with no plays set up for him. I think Powe is a great draft choice and an ANIMAL on the boards but again his offense is nowhere near pro level, a good backup. But can he get minutes from scal? Bless brian, very limited game but not the practice player I thought he was. Not that he is that good but he’s done well (just really really overpaid). Celts need a coach, want to have a coach to develop the young guys, which means forgot now and pierces prime years, how ’bout old friend Paul Silas? larry brown is free. Celts offense is subpar, no ball movement, 3 man weave? where does that go. Put a top notch coach in with same team and watch the difference. Coaching ideas?[/b][b]

It’s interesting to see how many people are writing off Telfair. Danny was adament that Bassie would have been the first PG taken if he were in the draft last year. While Theo’s imminent retirement will help the team as cap relief, on the court, this trade did not help the team. In fact, we’ve taken a step back. Roy or Foye would have helped this team more than Telfair. What a shame.

isn’t dwight gooden in jail?

Who is SARUNAS Ilgauskas?

You guys are just proving my point. I say something rather innocuous, Bassy had a good game, give him some more time, he needs a coach to set him free, and about 25 of you get really pissed off, as if I am questioning your religious faith. Take it easy, fellas. And I did not bash Rondo, I merely gave my opinion that his shooting form is so putrid, and his outside shooting percentages so poor, including at the foul line (how many guards do you know who shot 57% from the free throw line through college who became decent shooters?), that I have much less hope for him becoming a decent shooter than I do for Bassy. For those of you who understand shooting mechanics in basketball, you will probably agree with me on that observation. Rondo clearly has some decided advantages over Telfair. He is quicker, per se, and is longer, is a better rebounder, is going to make more steals, opportunity plays. No doubt. But unless he can hit the open shot consistently, there is no way he is going to lead this team anywhere significant as starting PG. Yes, Telfair has not exactly lit it up from the outside the past month. But last game he seemed to get his mojo back, and I thought that was a good thing. He is a Celtic, so I support him and compliment him for having a decent game. I would have done the same thing if Rondo had done so. If he gets some playing time again, I’m sure he will. But don’t hold your breath on that jump shot of his miraculously turning around anytime soon.

I am still liking Bassy…

Chucky Rosen, “How do we move the pieces that everybody values the least on our team for value including: hobbled wally and perk, and the "useless” bassy?"

Should scalabrine have some real value this year? A team making a push for the playoffs? could we move him and a 2nd rounder for a late first rounder in the 2007 draft? Dallas? Better “D” than Croshere as the back up PF…

In order to move wally, I think we are going to have to give something up, the way he is playing now anyhow…

I would have to agree with most of Rosen’s comments. However,I do like Perk and believe he can become a decent starting center. Perk bring physicality to the center position, he’s mean in the post, and I like that. So long as he play his role – defense and rebounding.

I also agree with those who say let wait and see on Bassy and Rondo. Both guys have upside and both have some negatives. Can Bassy become a decent of good defender? Certainly. Will he? Who knows. Can Rondo become a decent shooter? Certainly. Will he? Again, who knows. Both guys are 21 or younger, I’d say it’s not time to give up on either.

I also agree that someone has to go for us to bring in another Big, and it should be a center and not a PF. Big Al is not a center and will get punished playing against bigger centers – Ilgaskus, Curry, and Kaman to name a few have posed matchup problems for Al in the last few games. Although Al’s defense is getting better, why force him to expend extra energy on the defensive end if you don’t have to. That is not to say he should play good defense, but let’s give him a decent matchup.

In general I agreed with the anaylsis.

I think Perkins, Gomes, and probably Telfair would be terrific second team players. Telfair has the potential to start on a very good team, but he is not close at this point. I do not feel Gomes or Perkins will ever be good enough to start on a really good team.

However, we have some pieces with Pierce, Allen, and Green manning the 2 & 3, and Jefferson the 4. We need another big. I also feel the D.West can be a servicable PG on a good NBA team. He makes up for his lack of quickness by playing hard with intelligence. I could live with at the 1.

I hate to say it, but insert Greg Oden and this team is scary.

I would keep Wally until the last year of his contract. He is a good stop gap until GG is ready to contribute consisently.

My two cents: I think Telfair has terrific ability to get to the basket in traffic that will get even better in time. However, with his size/defense (never been next to him, but I can’t believe he’s 6’), and inconsistent outside shot, I think the best we can hope for is Earl Boykins. In other words, a very valuable reserve who won’t be starting on a contender.

Rondo’s quickness, energy and defensive potential are definitely promising, but I do wonder, to echo an earlier commenter, how many guys with truly bad outside shots at the start of their career (check out his college 3pt %) have actually developed a decent one in their 20’s. Hope Danny had/has someone researching that.

Yeah, except Perkins hasn’t been on his feet for 3 weeks, that would make anyone look like a stiff… I’ve been in bed 4 days since oral surgury on monday. I can’t hardly walk without bumping into somthing

Conclusion: I’m not worried about Perkins

Rosen is a complete loser. I forced myself to keep reading after DWIGHT Gooden, but stopped when SARUNAS Ilgauskas popped up. I can’t take any sort of “analysis” from a guy who doesn’t even know the names of the players he’s talking about.

I didn’t even notice the Dwight Gooden thing. Wow.

Cant Fox Sports afford to pay a couple of decent editors????

Dwight Gooden got out of jail and is now playing power forward for the Cavs.

As for playing Al at the 5, that’s not a good idea. He’s up against bigger and stronger guys. Kaman, Curry, Biedrins, and Ilgaskus wore him out on the offensive end. And these are the top centers in the NBA. Further by having Gomes at the PF slot makes us very, very small, that’s why I want Perk to start a center. I don’t have a problem playing Al against a backup center, but not as a starter. And I don’t care who plays Al on the defensive end, cuz he can handle that; it’s when he’s on the defensive end that he has to expend extra effort playing bigger guys. That’s why I like the Perk and Al tandem over Al and Gomes. Perk provides muscle and toughness that the other guys don’t.

As far as three points shot go remember Michael J wasn’t a good three point shooter when he came into the NBA. He developed the shot over his first few years in the league. Rondo is a far better guard than Telfair it’s not even close. Rondo is quicker, a better defender, and smarter.

It’s good to see that Dwight Gooden cleaned himself up and has a new career in the NBA.

Rosen was too harsh on Perk condidering that Perk was just coming
back from his foot woes. One game is a small snaphot of a team,
anyway. If he praised some of our favorite players it’s a nice
article. If he panned one of our “binkies” then Rosen is a jackass. I must say that Rosen’s remark about Doc’s imagination
was interesting.

A true point guard and a PF who can block shots and rebound. No
problem. How about AL Jefferson and Rajon Rondo? Of course AL stands for already lethal. You know Rondo can play. The Ryan Gomes theory. The AL Jefferson theory.
If West and Telfair had gotten hurt instead of the centers, then
West and Telfair would be battling it out to be Rondo’s caddy.