I Don't Want To Make The Playoffs

Doesn’t it feel good to finally admit it?

I’m with you Po—-win every game possible.

I’d rather make the playoffs but with a winning record. If they have a losing record, I’d rather miss the playoffs.

I think this will be the team that wins the division this year. They’re getting close to putting it together enough to win intra-division games the rest of the year and start beating the middle-of-the-road teams a fair amount of the time. That’s all it will take to win this division.

Oh- and- it’s about time for this post. Us “doomsdayers” (or realists) have been calling for this from the get go basically… (it’s just too bad PP is going to keep us mediocore)

I totally agree. Top 5 pick then a new coach. Then maybe a few minor trades to bring a couple veterans or free agent signings, PJ Brown types.

I feel the same way about making the playoffs as I do about Fast Food…See, Im trying to lose weight so I can play better rugby in the spring, so Im avoiding Fast Food..all kinds..

I drive past a KFC and I think “Man, Im starving…I really want a 3 pc meal..and I think well, even if I do eat it I’d work out tonight…so Id just be back to zero” then I realize Ive made a conscious decision to be better than where I am, and Im trying to improve myself and working hard. So i dont get the KFC, I go home for lunch and make a salad.

And in the same way, we’re desparate for some wins, desparate to be in the playoffs…But if we make the playoffs this year, either on the shoulders of PP or through a trade for another flawed vet stop gap at the expense of one or two of our youth, we’ll stay mired in medicority with the great hope of one day saying “We’re about average”..we’ve got a good thing goin here, DA for all our complaints has assembled a great young core. If there was a 25 and under league on this planet, we’d win..but right now we need to Draft well for one more year, and wait out Wally and Theo’s contracts so we can play ball in the major trade market without bringing in Al or Gerald’s name. Its a good plan.

Couldn’t agree more. Glad you’ve joined us, Jeff. I think making the playoffs with a sub .500 record will set us back more than it will help us. We’d get stuck picking no lower than #15. This draft is huge. We need a top 5-10 pick.

I been sayin this all year. It makes complete sense. I think this group is a contender in the making and with a high draft pick a new coach we will be one.

Herren 12 i dont get why you hate on Paul. Look at are record while he has been away. You are just using him as a scapegoat because he is the best player on a mediocre team. He has had NO support throughout the years and finally the support DA is developeing around him will have a chance to compliment his play. This is what we have all been waiting for, good to see you have jumped ship already.

I want to win or loose this year with the young ones playing most of the minutes. Am not interested in watching the vets get us to a 1st round exit again.
Make a run while resting the vets and find who the keepers are and go from there.
Playoff experience would be great for the young team, but Doc wont play them if we do get there. So let’em play and take our lumps.

I hear, i understand, i disagree.
maybe you guys haven’t noticed but those kids danny drafted, there doing pretty well right now.
its taken a while but we are on the verge of breaking through and i don’t think we have to wait through another lottery.

If we make the playoffs we will have Doc again next year, you can count on it.

How many want to live thru another year of that? :D

I disagree I want these young pups to see what it’s like to play in the second season. Next year they will have more experence dealing with playoff pressure.

We can not continue to try and develop our core on losing teams that don’t make the playoffs. That is a sure fire way to ensure a generation of mediocrity.

This group needs playoff experience much more than another 20 year old project.

I want the youts to develop. I want the team to develop the chemistry necessary to take us to the glory of years past. I want them to learn how to block ou down low; to develop the pick and roll. I want to see our youts play well without the vets taking up their time. And I want them to have one of the first 5 picks in the 2007 draft. That is of outmost importance. How do they do that? Its up to Doc to achieve that formula. I hate to lose any game; but I rather lose why playing good than just win and dont improve our position at the end of the day. The big picture- the big picture- the big picture. I dont like staying in the middleground forever our team needs to improve with new players we just dont have enough weapons as we are now.

I agree with Cfan…
let [/i]the youth play,
Let [i]the [/i]youth play,
let the [i]youth [/i]play,
let the youth [i]play.
..hare, hare…

If they make the playoffs with the youth so be it, but the priority should be on developing the youth and if in the course of that development we end up with a top ten pick this year that would be totally acceptable

As long as Doc is the coach, our chances of making the playoffs are slim at best. I’ll keep watching and hoping for wins but I have accepted the fact that Danny is sticking with Doc in hopes of a lottery pick. I do not see an in season trade as long as Doc is the coach.

All of this talk about getting into the lottery is interesting, but can we take a minute to ask ourselves, Outside of the top 2-5 picks, how much difference is there in the rest of the first round? The two untouchable young players that we are banking on to be the core of this team— Al Jefferson and Gerald Green— were taken 15th and 18th. So why are we so hung up on our draft position? It is more important to know the difference between Al Jefferson and Rafael Araujo than to wind up with the 8th pick rather than the 15th…right?

I’m torn on this issue. But even if they back into the playoffs, this draft is so strong that good players will be available in the late teens. So maybe that wouldn’t be so horrible.

The real issue this team faces is what to do with Pierce and Szczerbiak. Gerald Green is the future and everyone knows it, and those players are blocking his development. As LeBron said a few nights ago, Green won’t get better on the bench.

Szczerbiak has little or no trade value. But I think it’s seriously time to consider whether Pierce is the future of this team, particularly if they can play .500 or better without him over the next 7-8 games.

Frankly this team needs a blue chip power forward who can rebound and defend more than it needs scoring. Al Jefferson is simply not a power forward. He doesn’t have the lateral mobility. And Gomes is undersized. That’s why they are forced to go with Scalabrine against players like Gasol and Gooden.

i respectfully disagree jeff. i really think the winner of the atlantic will have at least 39-40 wins when it’s all said and done. if we can get to that point, it will mean we’ve really taken that next step, and we’re playing winning basketball. there arent any dominant teams in the east, so i dont think anyone in the east can sweep us (like indy did in ’04).

at that point, we’ll have given our team some nice national exposure. unless we make the playoffs, how many nationally televised games will we play in? probably zero. by making the playoffs, our young guys will get some national exposure, and that makes us much more attractive to potential free agents and for possible trades.

when pierce was almost traded to portland in the summer of ‘05, he vetoed it cause he didnt wanna go there. well, another year in the lottery, and we’ll be in the same boat. cap flexibility and trade chips mean a lot less when you’re viewed as a pathetic franchise. making the playoffs would eliminate that risk.

I STRONGLY DISAGREE!!!

…the probability of us missing the playoffs is High.[

wow. yikes. wow.

I want the young guys to get a taste of the playoffs. Anyone remember how Paul plays in the playoffs? Some of his greatest performances have been in the postseason. This is a guy that steps up BIG TIME in the postseason. How could anyone not want to watch more great playoff performances from PP? Bring on the playoffs NOW. We don’t know what next season will bring.

i say give the youth a taste of the playoffs so they know what they are playing for

Well, this is a tough spot to put a fan in. On one hand, if we miss the playoffs, yea we will get a higher draft pick. If we make the playoffs though, it will mean that our team and youngs have improved on their own. It will also mean that we have improved since last year when we didnt make the playoffs with almost the same team. I am going to put myself on the “Go for the play-offs” mode, just for the mere fact that it has been quite a few years with this core of youngs, and it is time they proved something, not only to us but to themselves. I find it funny how a fan can say, “Hey i don’t want them to tank, but i don’t want them to make the playoffs.” C’mon, Sounds like a nice way of not wanting to succeed this year. You must also consider that not making the playoffs in our division is somewhat pathetic. There is a difference between our team from 2 years ago losing in the first round then to our team this year losing in the first round. IMO there would be more to look forward to next year if we did make the playoffs, as opposed to another year of “the young excuse.” If this team makes it, it will mean much more to this team than getting a higher draft pick…..I mean supposedly this is the deepest draft class in years, and don’t we have the perfect GM for a draft like that??? There is plenty of games left in the season, and with players improving through the first half of the season(Big Al, Gerald, Tony) Who knows what they could to in the reming 50 games. I believe it was a blessing that Paul was injured just for the mere fact that it is what this team needed, so they could believe in themselves and not just defer to their superstar and watch him.

@BigAlBeezy

I’m not “hating” on PP. I think he’s freakin amazing- thus, he’s keeping us mediocore (by singlehandely winning games).

I’m not sure anyone can root to lose for their favorite team at this stage in a season, but like Jeff I agree that the best thing for this team isn’t to squeak into the playoffs with a roster not yet ready to compete with the Big Boys. Even a trade for KG won’t bring that…

Still, losing the Atlantic probably gives you a pick from 6-10 and making concerted effort after the trade deadline to PLAY THE KIDS probably puts the team into a top 5 pick. Once in the top 5, the odds of getting the top pick increase significantly.

@mediatofirstrow

We got GG and AJ so late in the draft b/c High Schoolers were allowed to come out- That is no longer the case. Making it MUCH harder to get a steal later in the draft (think Monta Ellis)

The state of the Atl is a wild card. Dont see anyone of the other clubs capable of going on a tear, so a healthy PP could push the C’s to the top.
Another wild card: no guarentee Doc will be gone. We wont even discuss ping pong balls.

Basicly, Im in it this year for the se-par-a-tion. And if the cream rises and they win, so be it.

While I think Paul Pierce is a stud and I doubt Gerald Green will ever be as good as Pierce is now, I think Brickowski is on to something. If the C’s can move Pierce for a young tough legitimate rebounding/defensive power forward, then I’d be all for it (although how many players like that are out there now? And what teams that have such a player would be willing to deal?) As far as the playoffs are concerned, I’m fine with the C’s missing them. The Atlantic is terrible this year and and whatever team backs into the playoffs from this division can’t legitimately view that as an accomplishment. This team needs more talent, and they’re more likely to get that with a high draft pick than a mid first round pick. The celtics need to land another impact big man or an impact point guard and the most likely way for that to happen is by landing a high draft pick, not by making the playoffs and getting bounced in the first round in 3 or 4 games

I agree with jeff. I really don’t want to make the playoffs.. that comes next year, then the year after that we contend for the ECF then after that the title, this year we need to miss the playoffs and have just ONE MORE offseason to get this team together… don’t worry guys its coming soon, just not this year!

I at first wanted the C’s to win and make the playoffs but after Pierce got injured I have decided that a better draft pick would be more valuable in the long run. Either by getting a good rookie or using it as a trading chip. I am sick of these mid-first round picks and we need other pieces to make us a contender.

With you one hundred percent, Jeff.

I’d like to see Big Al, et al get some playoff experience. I’d be pretty pumped to see what the kids can do, and I think building off that is pretty valuable. I’m tired of hoping we get a top 5 pick… it just doesn’t seem to happen unless Rick Pitino is at the helm. I know how good this draft is… so maybe I’m excited about next year no matter what.

What is the difference between the first 5-8 draft picks and the rest? It all depends. If we are looking for a top Center(5, it seems that the best prospects are in the top draft picks. At least thats the impression I have. Looking for a wingman or a guard; we would not have to draft so high. If we are looking for a top 4 or 5 and those are available in the 10-20 positions, then lets go for the whole enchilada and try to make the playoffs. Can you imagine how effective Al would be as a PF if we had a 5 that can light it like Gasol from near the top of the key; Al would not be double team or the 5 would have uncontested shots like Gasol was having last night. Thats the type of 5 we need.
Funny but some fans are finally starting to realize that in PP’s absence, GG and Al asre staring to show glimpses that they are the future of this team. Even West is taking is another notch. The youts are finally finding out what its all about. We got scorers w/o PP. PP better learn to share the ball a lot more when he gets back cause soon he will not be our only option. PP is an asset, no quetsion about it; Just dont think he is our only asset; not anymore. I like what I see. Lets get a top 5 now.

Play the kids, and whatever happens is fine. Personally I don’t want to make the playoffs. It is getting really old hearing people say “Well, we probably won’t get Oden anyways.”, or “Remember what happened with Duncan?” This draft is going to be awesome, Oden or no Oden. If he’s in the mix, it could be the best draft ever considering the number of excellent big men and the overall depth of talent. The Duncan draft was either get Timmy or get screwed – there is NO real comparison.

If we make the playoffs playing the kids, it’s fine by me. What I don’t want to see is Doc playing vets and supposed vets over guys like Gerald so that we can squeak in. What does that do for our young core? Next to nothing if you ask me. This season should be about setting us up for future success, not selling out our future for some counterproductive playoff run which will:

1. Get us a lower draft pick

2. Stunt the development of our younger players. Watching playoff basketball on the bench is almost equivalent to watching it in the stands.

3. Doom us to another season of Doc, his “system”, not running and our youth getting screamed at on the sidelines will vets play like garbage – but that’s OK because they are vets.

So if we can win THE RIGHT WAY, fine, let’s go for it. If it means more of Doc’s idiocy, no thanks…I’ll take Noah, Horford and if we are lucky Oden or Durant

I would really like us to execute a trade or two, one coming before this next deadline, that clears out roster space and brings in players who can help us looking forward. We have too many players who are deserving of playing time – not the worst problem to have. The thing is that when we are guaranteed to add one more to that mix next season in the draft, even with a middle of the first round pick, that is going to make getting people playing time extremely difficult. Danny needs to move at least three of the following: Wally, Delonte, Telfair, Gomes, Veal for people that can help us and expiring deals. The talent needs to be consolidated on this roster so that we can put a coherent 8 to 9 man rotation on the floor. Theo’s contract should be able to help us, especially next season, but I’m not too worried about him at this point. I want to see Pierce, Gerald, Rondo, Al, Perk with 3 or 4 other guys who will get serious minutes and consistent time. Could Tony stay an fit in perfectly? Sure, so long as Wally is gone. Could the draft pick end up being the big man that we need? It sure could. Danny needs to make trades that set our roster up to allow this to happen. I definitely think that either Delonte or Telfair HAS to go, and Ryan will probably have to go too. He’s too good to get 10 minutes a game, and that would likely happen if he stayed and we brought in a guy like Noah.

Space needs to be cleared and the talent needs to be top heavy with our main 8-9 guys being our best players, not just the ones who Doc decides to play. Powe could easily replace Ryan or Veal, Rondo is better than West and Telfair, IMO. Have 8 to 9 really good players with the remaining guys either being solid role players who can step in emergencies and projects. Having your talent spread out through the roster, as it is now, is NEVER a good thing. Consolidate.

I am so pumped. Once you ****, “diehard” fans think we should loose, it means we are about to win. Your pesimism, disguised as realism and analytic logic, is on a tape delay. Your micro-management and analysis of every play, move, shot, etc. has obscured the truth and brought comfort in losses and lotteries. By the time you realize the future has arrived, the fair weather fans will already be back in the arena. And you all will pretend that you knew it was coming, but really you were hoping for a few more bad seasons. I for one, am going to enjoyy the meteoric rise of this franchise, that has already begun and will last for the next decade.

I just want the season to play out and let the team decide their fate. I can see this team only growing from here. They have shown they can be good but have to get healthy to get there. They need to have everyone healthy so they can gel as a unit.

Even without PP, I kind of feel like we’ll at least make a run at the #8 seed. If we don’t, I’m afraid something else will have gone horribly wrong.

Decisions, decisions. What should happen is they should think
longterm and play the kids and develop Rondo and Powe along with the guys who have emerged in PP’s absence. As a coach Doc thinks
short term and tries to win every game. So we’ll see Pierce sooner than later and Wally will gobble up both Allen’s and GG’s minutes. That might win a few more games and might even get the Cs limping into the playoffs. Good for the shortterm. Bad for the longterm. The fans have waited this long and with a high lottery pick it would put the team on the way back to relevancy and
beyond.

After reading a lot of these posts, i guess a lot of people are dissapointed that we are only 2 games behind in the Atlantic Division. Ever since Paul has been out, and wally playing on no ankles, the rest of our team has made great strides and the chemistry has def. gelled more. For these last 45-50 games i expect us to keep getting better especially with Paul coming back. On celtics tonight they have been talking about how “mental confidence” has played such a crucial role in how these players have stepped up. When pierce comes back combined with how much we have improved mentally during his absence, we WILL play much better since the other pieces have matured.
It is hypocritical to hope that our youngs improve into what we expect them to be, while hoping we don’t make the playoffs?? I want this team to keep building on the positives, and being only 2 games out of the playoffs, its really there for the grabs. We all want a better team right??? Well making the playoffs for this young team is improvement, something that people on this site are dying for from the youngs. S what happens when we start winning and our players keep improving, are you guys gonna scream at the TV saying, “No Gerald,stop improving your helping us win!!!” or “Dang it BIG AL, why did you have to make huge strides this year, why couldn’t it be next year, why does your improved beautiful post moves have to make us win?!!!” You guys are banking on a draft pick we don’t even know about yet, over the improvement our own team of picks …..I root for players who wear “Celtics” across their jersey, not ones that aren’t…I could somewhat understand if we only had 10 games to go and we were 4 games out of the playoffs. With 50 games left and our steady improvement as of late, i’m ashamed of these premature “defense lawyer” type excuses for not looking like you want to tank.

When you are 2 games out of 1st place, and you don’t want your team to make the playoffs??? That is wanting to tank.

It shouldn’t have to come to this. There has got to be something wrong with a league that forces you to make a decision between tanking or playoffs. DStern could fix this by simply ruling things that make sense. If you are one of the worst 8 teams in the league you should have the right to enter the lottery regardless of whether you make the playoffs or not….its just common sense.

My ideal scenario would be the celtics win games, but someone else in the Atlantic starts to win more games, thereby taking us out of playoff contention. I’d prefer that it by the Knicks who win the division, such that Isiah gets to keep his job, and the Bulls end up with the worse pick possible.

the wishful thinking isnt really too far off base - with the exception of 20-game improvement for next season, unless the big 3(larry, kevin, & robert for the uninitiated)coming walking through the door next fall.

now, if DA manages to find a “new 3” (like vet PG, vet PF, & new coach) you might be ok.
but expecting a 50 W’s next season is unrealistic (under any circumstances).

i have jumped on the “play the kids” bandwagon and dont want to see a trade this year with the goal of making the playoffs — even while admitting their is incalculable value in “learning how to win”. i do not advocate a tank job either….the recent cavs loss is an acceptable outcome.

if you project the current 12-20 record over 82 games you’re looking @ 30-52….it would take a .500 finish over the final 50 games (unlikely) to finish 37-45. that MIGHT win the atlantic division, and if it does, GREAT.
now you need only a 13-game improvement to reach 50 W’s next season.

oh, sidebar question: if/when dwest healthy, how good could he be? i want to find out.

i almost laughed out loud when herren12 said feels good to admit it because that’s how i felt after my last recent post with the same opinion.

You guys realize that the Celtics have the 5th worst record in the entire league, right? Sure their 2 games out of the Atlantic but really what the hell does that mean? Is that some accomplishment that should be celebrated? There are 25 teams with as good or better records than the Celtics right now. Lets get a little perspective here. While Al and Tony and some others have certainly made strides, this team has a long way to go. With Pierce they may be able to back into the playoffs with a sub par team that will get bounced in the first round. Without Pierce, while they’re a potentially promising bunch, today, right now, they’re one of the worst teams in the league.

Let’s look at the numbers for a minute — if it takes, say, 38 wins to win the Atlantic, that means we’re 26-22 the rest of the way. That’s against a formidable schedule and that’s with PP out for at least 2 more weeks. That type of finish would mean serious progress and heading into the playoffs with some opportunity to make an impact. It would mean improvements in our youth and chemistry continued and that the value of many of our players will be high heading into the off-season. And, we’ll still have DA picking at #16 and in the second round. And this scenario is if it takes only 38 to win the Atlantic. If it takes more, then our last 48 games will need to be even better.

My philosophy is to root for victory every night, but find silver linings when they lose. The lottery is just a silver lining. If they make the playoffs, we’ll have more games to watch and more opportuities to root for victory, and a terrific reason to be excited about this team for 2007-8.

Lo, yes they are only 2 games out and they’re a potentially promising bunch. But they have been improving, and their potential is finally starting to be tapped into right now. I don’t care what place your team is in, as long as they improve that is all that matters. Since they are only 2 games out, this means that if they keep improving at the rate they are, this team will most likely make the playoffs whether you like it or not. I want them to make the playoffs for the mere fact that it means we are finally improving, and so they start to learn how to win(invaluable). Just because you get a lottery pick doesn’t mean you will be a good team, take the Hawks they have really improved……I bet if you all had an opportunity to meet the team in person none of you would spout this rubbish about wanting to not make the playoffs. You would probably flip-flop and wish them the best and want them to win every game. It will be interesting in the last 2/3rds of the season when we start winning more and you guys become sad over more W’s because of a draft pick that has nothing to do with our team….ridiculous

If this team makes the playoffs by winning 33, 34 or 35 games, it doesn’t mean they improved. It just means that the division and conference is that weak this year. I don’t root for the team to lose when watching games but I realize that the best way for this team to actually be anything better than mediocre is to get a high pick in what is considered an impact draft. That’s the way the league is now. You need talent to win, and with the salary cap, the difficulty of trades, etc, the best chance you have to get an impact player is through the draft.

If there is a year where winning isn’t everything, it’s this year because losing actually could be better for winning in the long run, which could be as soon as next season. Everyone knows about the draft so there’s no need to get into it. I agree with Jeff about next season, I think it’ll be the year that the long-term plan starts to come full circle. A lot will depend on any deal that Theo is involved with, Danny will have to improve on his previous trades (no more sideways moves or injured players). That said I’d be thrilled to watch this team in the playoffs. One problem with winning the Atlantic is that every one of our division rivals (besides the Knicks of course) would have a lottery pick and would get one of those studs everyone covets and we’d be left in the cold with one of the lesser players in the draft. A high lottery pick that Danny actually uses would be huge for this team.

Here is a lesson for you all:
If a team wins 33 games with a team that has an average age of 40, then wins 33 games a season later with a team averaging 20 years old… it is an improvement. Lesson is that improvement does not always lie in wins and losses.

not cool

ThreadCrasher.

This team might actually be older than last years team in terms of average age.

i agree with brickowski. they need a 4 who can rebound and play defense; someone like a younger p.j. brown. this year i want them to make the playoffs but i think it is highly unlikely, what with the injuries and the games doc will cost them. i like all three points but one should probably be traded to get veteran help. the one i would like to keep is rondo.

The point wasn’t age, rather wins and losses is not the only judge of improvement.

I disagree with Brick. Why would you need a 4 that would do the same that Perk can do at 5? Have Al play 4 with his offense and Perk 5 with his D. That will actually take Doc playing them together or a new coach. But I do not see the point of trading for a defensive 4.

I can’t find Brick’s post (so I am not speaking for him) but here’s a reason Moiso, because Al doesn’t have the lateral quickness to stay infront of half the 4’s in the NBA…

Well eventually it comes back to wins and losses. This team right now is a 30 win team, and for it to get to the 50 win level (rather than stay mired in mediocrity), I think they need to add more talent. I don’t think they’re going to be able to be a 50 win caliber team in a year or two by backing into the playoffs this year, and adding a mid to late first round pick to this team. They need to add another impact player and the only way they can do that is either by trading Paul Pierce (which could result in being a lateral move given how good Paul Pierce is) or drafting a stud in the draft. Nobody out there is going to want to trade for Wally and the 3 years and 13 mil or so a year he’s owed. The only players other teams are possibly interested in are the ones the C’s probably want to keep (Al, Green, TA, maybe Rondo) The rest of the young guys are role player types. Perk’s been ok but I doubt any team is going to offer up the moon for him, same for Gomes or West. I can’t think of a team in recent memory that’s been able to improve by 20 wins or so by just keeping the status quo.

Roster consolidation. Wally, West or Telfair (or Rondo), Gomes for expiring deals. Do it. If you bring in a pretty good backup C then you can move Perk too.

Draft Sean Williams (who also works out with John Lucas in Texas and can also fly around the gym) – bring in a running coach. Unleash:

Starters: Jefferson, Williams, Pierce, Allen, Rondo
Bench: Green, Perkins, Telfair or West

Scal, Powe, 2nd roudnd pick, whoever is brought back in the above trade can be reserves. Still have Theo’s deal and picks to make another move if needed.

Caveat if you get the chance to grab a stud big – DO IT.

Win or Lose – I’m convinced a talented big is available on draft night: roster fit and talent consolidation will provide the biggest challenges for Danny.

ThreadCrasher, Brick’s post is way up. Anyway, I disagree that Al does not have the lateral quickness. D is more a matter of focus and committment. Al is plenty quick. Otherwise, he would not be tearing people up on offense. So he just needs to work on his D.

We are young, we are injured, we are rebuilding, we need more talent and we as fans need to be patient.

This is a year for development and separation, and the exceptionally deep draft class ahead is perfect for what Danny has proven he does best. One more piece to the puzzle, one more year of experience for our core. The so-called “culture of losing” is a myth, every season you start anew. And with a new coach, it truly will be a coming out party for these Celtics next season.

What benefits a team that seems to be turning the corner in their rebuilding process more – squeaking into the playoffs with a below .500 record in the worst division in the history of the sport? Or playing the youth, ending up with a pick deserving of our record, working like crazy in the offseason and ultimately returning hungrier, deeper, smarter than before?

‘07 we play the kids, figure out who is staying and what their roles will be. Keep Doc around for his “appropriate” decision making until season’s end. We play this special draft right. And in ’08 we make the leap.

Patience.

That sound people hear is what’s left of “Celtic Pride” being flushed down the toilet.

ThreadCrasher, what or who gives you the right to call whoever doesnt agree with your views;“idiots”? No place here for such name calling, buddy, so get your act together.

Looking at how this season is unfolding as a realist and thinking about long term success like a GM would doesn’t mean the Pride has left. We all bleed green. Progress doesn’t always mean playoffs, and good draft picks can make a world of difference, as any Celtics fan knows.

This team is improving individually and collectively, no matter what our win-loss record ends up as. I am not saying our players should try to lose, that’s despicable. But if losing is what we are faced with, perhaps it will be for the best, perhaps even as soon as next season. It just means I can take losing a little easier right now knowing it will not go unrewarded.

I want us to be good enough to beat the Mavs, Suns and Spurs on the regular, good enough to make LeBron, Wade and Howard irrelevant in the East. Personally I think that our potential, however great, is not going to equal that in this current NBA climate. But someday it will. We aren’t all that far away, but any NBA fan can tell you that we aren’t there quite yet.

So what’s exactly wrong with thinking long term considering our current situation?

I can’t disagree, Jeff. After watching Oden, Durant (unreal today), Noah, Horford, Wright, Brewer, etc, if we have a top 6 or 8 pick again, we get another potential cornerstone player. Another big man to go with Al, and we may only be a PG away from having a really special line up.

Problem is, if Pierce comes back soon, the Celts will probably win upwards of 35 games (and if AJ continues to improve, maybe 40).

I guess where I come from, I want both. :-\ I want the high pick and the playoffs. Unfortunately, it won’t work that way.

Doc is simply going to play the best players for the matchups for each game according to his philosophy of earning minutes. I think any other approach is pretty hard to justify. As I’ve said before there is a lot of talent here and I would want to see how good they can be ay this point to evaluate how to improve the team after the season. They just may be ready to take a big step forward in the last 30 games.

These guys need to learn how to win. I like the points made about team exposure and attractiveness to free agents. This sounds very probably more important than a hand full of spots in the draft, given that the probabilty of a very high draft choice is quite low.
How can you judge Doc fairly? How can you develop the team toward the ultimate objective — long term contender/champion — unless you play to win. Developing players’ attitudes is as important as anything with this young group. If it leads to the playoffs, significant good will come in experience of more winning and learning about the playoffs and the national exposure from that. If it doesn’t well some consolation in a better draft choice. Anyone talking about winning less games by design is unrealistic. Only injury circumtances can affect that. To want to work to improve and evaluate the team while trying to optimize their draft position is not the way to go and I’m reasonably sure that management won’t be taking that approach.

That said, Pierce should not be rushed back for the sake of the playoffs and I think they’ll be conservative in that. But if and when he returns to full strength, you have to see how this team comes together and takes the strides made in his absence while and adding/integrating him back into the team as Wally is beginning to now (and Perk). Pierce will make the others better and he will only be that much better when there is less need for him to carry the team and do it all at all times. We were seeing some very good early previews of that the couple of weeks before he went down. Let’s enjoy the progress.

Great Players win titles .. we only have one and cant seem to trade for them.Drafting them is the only option it seems. Its that simple.

I agree with Truthhurts34. I’d love to have a high draft pick too but playing to lose, or hoping to lose, is the wrong strategy. Hoping we lose close games? That would drive me crazy with 50 games to go. I know how important it is to look toward the future but that can’t convince me to root for my team to lose.

look men,we will be beter than a good team for the next 5 years if we don’t make a trade, so forget the damn 2007 draft ’couse you never know who is going to develop into a francise player or not.
PLAY THE CARDS YOU ARE DEALT!!!-and we will be just fine
We should chase the playoffs every season(you think that PP can handle this 3-4 year rebuilding.Our players need all the expirience they can get!!!!
PLAYOFFS HERE WE COME

The problem many of us see in the Celtics as currently put together is that we cannot envision a return to championship contending form with this group of players. Yes, they likely will improve and become a stronger and more consistent team. But they need a certified big time player to get them into the upper echelon.

The 2007 draft is supposed to have several players who are projected to be top talents, starting with Oden and continuing through Durant and Noah and perhaps a few more. If you reason that the Celtics will show some improvement over the next several years, then the next draft is likely going to be their last real chance for awhile to land such a player by selecting in the top five.

When you have a lottery, nothing is certain as far as where a team picks, but having one of the five worst records in the league guarantees that you will pick no worse than three spots below your position if three other teams somehow manage to get lucky and move up (which has never happened).

No, you can’t (or shouldn’t) play to lose, but I wouldn’t be disappointed if Ainge found another home for Wally, perhaps taking back an expiring contract and a 2nd rounder or a bench player. Wouldn’t the Knicks be interested in having Wally come off the bench since Isaih is trying to save his job? I do not think Pierce will be dealt but having him go the David Robinson route and rest his foot for the rest of the season might not be a bad thing.

In this scenario, the kids get to play a lot and so what if they don’t get playoff experience. Ainge gets to truly evaluate which ones are keepers, and the Celtics likely wind up with a top draft pick.

why rip Doc? guys are improving every day,we’ve got a depleted roster but effort is high,now that AL is playing well we run post plays half the time and we’re running more every game…we are right on track…as for the pick??we need lottery

Date of Simmons Article – January 5th
Date of Celtic Blog Article – January 6th

Come on, are you honestly saying that you didn’t happen to see Simmons article before you wrote your piece? ;D

we will make the playoffs and al “the big picture” jefferson will elevate his game to such a level that he will make all you odenites forget the draft.

Great minds think alike.

There’s a paradox here. We don’t want to “tank” (i.e. Allan Ray at starting PG) but at the same time, how exactly do we go about making the lottery without sitting Pierce and Wally?

I figure if we are going to “not make the playoffs” as a goal, then we should “not make the playoffs badly”, so that we are ensured at least a top 7 or top 10 pick. Stuck with another 15th pick who may not crack the starting line-up next year doesn’t reeeeeeeeally make sense to me.

And like it or not, “not making the playoffs badly” = “tanking” = sit Pierce, sit Wally, give Perk’s planatar fascittis(sp) a rest if there is even a hint of that being needed, and consider benching Delonte as well so he doesn’t get a herniated disc.

If we’re not making the playoffs, we might as well not make the playoffs all the way. And we’ve got some serious competition, with the Grizz & 76ers already declared contenders and up & coming challengers like the Hawks, Bucks, and as always your inevitable late-comer hard tankers once they realize they are mathematically unable to make the playoffs.

So get your Grizzlie headbands and Sixer jerseys on guys. We need some wins.

The problem is that if they sit Pierce and Wally they may make the playoffs anyway. Gerald Green is already better than Wally.

This is a stupid idea, not wanting the Celtics wo win, and not even talking about the draft position, that’s crazy. I don’t think it will matter anyways, given the fact that Pierce is injured and we don’t have many opportunities to do so. I always route for the Celtics to win no matter what the circumatances.

Bad Idea. Plain and simple. Too many if’s. High lottery pick does not equal better team.

See L.A. Clippers See Tim Duncan. See Len Bias. Look down your bench and see Olawakandi.

Go C’s.

 :D@Brikowsky

Okay bad idea………. Can anyone come up with something good? trades ? ( trades that work )

It depends what you mean by tanking, if the young players are showing improvement and developing but losing then I have no problem with it, because they are getting the minutes to play and mature….

However if they are not improving and tanking it, then you need to make some decisions as to who you trade and can find something of value back in return.

The salary cap is a big obstacle and I do not want to be saddle by a huge contract from another team for a player they don’t want.

We are in a position to get rid of Wally and Ratliff and be able to hopefully get a quality free agent.

1. Unless we are tanking, so that we can get a top 5 pick, there is no sense trying to sort of not win. The draft is not as deep as rumored. It is incredible at the top 5, but there is alot of risk after that. Its depth in over-rated IMO.

2. I find it ironic (a more cynical person would find it hypocritical) for those posters (you know who you are) who have been crying that Doc loses close games because he does not play young guys like Green and Rondo, yet also yell at him when we win because he has been playing veterans. Give me a break already.

I think we need to make the playoffs this year. I want the young guns to get a taste of what its like. We don’t need another lottery pick, as our roster is already very young. The only position we have questions at is the point guard spot and two of our three point gaurds are very young and need more time to be evaulated. But I’m fine with West as a starter for us. I’m kinda upset Jeff. I see your reasons but I disagree.

I maintain that every game Doc is coach gives the appearance that we’re tanking whether we are or not. While the youth is developing, losing so many close games due to horrible game coaching decisions breeds an unhealthy mentality with youth.

Jeff I agree with you, but only if we don’t make a trade soon… Wally needs to go (I don’t care about last game) He does’nt fit on this team.. and we need a real PG and a new coach…. Then I’d rather see us win and make the playoffs with a sub 500 record… Then let our young guys try to make some noise. Because I think they have the will to win. especially Perk and AL.. They get more fired up on the court than anyone I’ve seen in years. I love it

Play the kids. Run plays for Gerald, Al and continue to let Tony develop. If they make the playoffs playing the kids, great. If they don’t make the playoffs playing the kids even better. If they make the playoffs because Wally’s playing 35 minutes and Scal is playing 15, pink slips are needed. We need a Big Man.

This team needs to learn how to close out games and win a lot more than it needs another hot prospect who’ll be a star in 5 years. The future is now. When PP comes back , it should be very difficult for this team to lose the Atlantic. And thats not necessarily a testimonial to the Celtics.

footey is correct with the statement about how over rated this draft is…Check out hoopshype.com in the Draft 2007 section….Really after pick number 7, the rest of the draft past that really looks quite uninticing. There’s only 3 20 scorers in the first top 20 picks. The bright side is there is a LOT of big men in this umcoming draft, not really stars outside of Oden and Durant….I personally think Noah is overrated sorry.

I like the young talent that we allready have. Anyone coming out of the draft is still going to take 2-3 years to develop anyway.

Ainge needs to work with what we have and put battle tested vets around Pierce & Jefferson. I don’t think we need an impact player to put us over the top, what this team needs is experience. If this team can keep the to’s down and play smart bball, PP and AJ can easily carry the scoring load. The problem is we are so young at every position that we have no consistency, evident in our turnover #’s.

I would like to see 4-5 of the 9 rookies (< 3yrs – RR, ST, DW, TA, GG, AJ, RG, LP, AR) replaced with seasoned role players. Keep Big AL, GGreen, and Rajon, add more playoff expierence and defense around Paul (paticularly at pg) and this team can lock up the Atlantic and contend in the East once again.

Enough of this Celtics DLeague basketball, its time for Ainge to make something happen with all his youth.

This draft is definately NOT over-rated in my opinion. You can’t just go by what one draft board says. hoopshype.com doesn’t even list Hasheem Thabeet on its board, and he is one of the players I really wouldn’t mind seeing the celtics get. Also, as for decent players after pick 7 they still list Al Horford Yi Jianlian and Tyler Hansborough. Furthermore, its really not fair to judge a college player on whether or not he scores 20 pts a game, theres alot more to it then that. But really its too early to even fully rank this draft.

It may be early but this draft is the deepest since the year Pierce fell to the Celtics and it is better stocked with quality big men. Give me a top five pick and I could care less about the C’s record this season.

The deepest draft since PP went #10 ??? That draft had a lot of names, but I think only 3 guys ( PP, Dirk, and VCarter) have made an All Star Team. Jayson Williams, Kandi, Tractor Traylor were definitely not stars, and Bibby, Hughes, Raef, and Jamisson aren’t players I’d give up the season to draft. And don’t forget the 3 stars from that draft were taken like 5, 9, and 10. The draft is not a science.

Then how about the deepest draft since 2003? Where a possible all-star(josh howard) was drafted with the 29th pick?(and our own kendrick perkins was there until the 27th.

I’m not in favor of tanking, but…if we wanted to play our young’uns, let them make their mistakes, and lose that way, i could deal with that. Again, the only real problem is Paul Pierce – he’s simply too good to let us tank.