Depth Charges - Part 2

This one’s too easy Jeff. As to Pollard I don’t know his contract, but it’s probably guaranteed. I don’t like to hear the words “bone bruise” and see him wearing a boot. That almost equals no court time, but he could be a good mentor to the bigs because of his experience. I would put him over Batista. My bet is that Manual, Jones and Batista will go. That would leave 14 on the roster and a chance to maybe pick up someone else. I think some of the bubble guys will get one more chance in the next game, but then we need to start nailing down the substitution patterns. There’ve been times in the first two games when KG, RA, and PP haven’t been on the floor with the first line bench players. This won’t happen regular season. At least one will always need to be on the floor.

I don’t think we will have a steady rotation that includes 10 guys this year. Sure, 10 may play some games due to foul trouble, or certain matchups, but there just is not enough minutes to go around. If you add up the top 9’s career MPG, it totals more than the amount of player minutes per game, so those 9 will already require a reduction in minutes as it is. Look at the top teams, they don’t regularly play 10 guys, we won’t either.

Having Pollard there to begin with was a stretch, again, far too much emphasis on exact positions vs. talent. Just because he is a 5, doesn’t mean there are regular minutes available for every backup position 1-5. By the same token, Leon does not deserve elevation into the rotation, I would leave it at a solid 9, and he drops into the next group. I also think Eddie House being more exciting than we thought, is a matter of opinion. If you ever watched him play for Phoenix especially, what he has shown in these 2 games is nothing different than what he has been providing for the last few years. If it is a surprise, it is simply because of a lack of awareness of what he brought to the table in the first place.

we picked up pollard before players like batista were available
and the celtics got lucky and snagged one in batista. a young
rebounder with weight is a nice commodity. keep him say goodbye
to pollard

I’m with Perk re Pollard. We got Pollard before we got House or Posey. Thus we have veteran presence. And how much value is there in a veteran occupying the #12 spot on the bench (Think Kandi man)? We’ve got Scal, who is better than Pollard. Now we’ve got Batista, who hasn’t shown much but is young. It would seem that Pollard doesn’t make it. Little has been mentioned about Manuel and since then we’ve picked up D Jones. He probably doesn’t make it. THe other five pick up paychecks and bench splinters until injuries change it up. We don’t need another PG unless they give up on Pruitt.

I think Pollard does make it. He’s a good locker room veteran that has postseason experience. He’ll the the Kevin Millar of the Celtics. Manuel, Jones or Batista will be cut.

Remember playing keepaway? With a dog? The dog runs back and forth and back and forth trying to get the ball. Eventually he dog gets tired. That’s what the Supahstahs will be doing to double teams this year. Eventually that double teamer will not get back quick enough because he’s going to be tired and frustrated. And his man will take the open shot.

Keepaway. We will toy with the opponents like dogs.

Are you guys crazy? Pollard will stay, he just has a minor injury (we should have an update today). As for the bubble players: Batista stays, no doubt, and Manuel goes. So it’s Jones vs. Wallace, and since we want the Championship, we will keep Jones over Wallace. In case of injury, Jones still helps much more than Wallace.

lower case big three.

Hmmm.

This just might do the trick…

Jones, Manuel, and Pruitt are who I would cut at this point with Wallace headed to the D-League with express intention of him playing the 3 and learning the position.

I’m concerned with Pollard in that I would really hate for us to have spent money on this guy for him to be on IR all year. He could be a big asset, the problem is will he.

House is a really pleasent surprise to this point.
Sign Leon for life. I dont care if he’s Greg Kite his whole career. Sign him. His character, his work ethic, his practice value is what we want on the team. Sign him for the life of his career.

keep batista- one game only- did not look great but got some points and rebounds- something scal won’t do regularly. you need depth and fouls to give with the big men and perk can get hurt.pollard stays- heals and is anothet scal but with rebounds.

I see wallace and Manuel as the odd men out . they have the least nba experience and we already have 2 rooks in pruitt and davis who will make the team. I can’t see have 4 1st year players on this roster even though I know manuel was in the d league. I think the c’s will keep 15 guys and that pollard will be inactive to start the season probably with batista and Jones or pruitt. It’s also possible that Danny would try and work a trade to get another shooter or point guard both of which are glaring weaknesses on this team imo. I see Dontae JOnes making the team because he defends, has nba experience and will allow doc to play “small ball”. The majority of doc’s success as a coach has come playing a small lineup so I think he still wants to be able to put a quick, small trapping team on the floor and jones alongside tony allen can cause a lot of havoc. I thought he and tony were very effective at the end of the MInny game when things got tight. Tony allen is the key to our bench and right now he looks to be 2-3 months away from being the player he was last year. It may take even longer than that. I don’t see much O when I look at the second unit. Other than house and an occasional bucket from Veal where are the points going to come from? That’s why I would love another shooter off the bench. Manuel and JOnes play the same position so unless Manuel starts looking like JOrdan he’s gone. I hate to lose wallace because I think the kid can play and he gives us a long, quick defender that we don’t have but do you keep him over esteban when pollard is already hurt??

   I think that what made Pollard useful in the league was that he was one of the few who could at least annoy Shaq – Shaq with Lakers, Pollard with Kings. Shaq will always be a factor, but is no longer THE FACTOR. So I’d much prefer trying to develop Batista then have Pollard sitting on the bench or more likely on IR. Same with Wallace over Jones. Wallace has potential and you already know all about Jones. With 12 game slots and playing 9 or 10 peeps, it certainly doesnt appear to hurt the team keeping two ‘Potentials’ around and Danny needs more ‘chips’ now.

With such varying opinions I wonder if we’re all watching the same games and reading the same stuff. As for who will be cut, I liked what Batista showed the other night but need to see more of him before deciding. Logic cries that we need insurance at the 5, injury history demands it!

Counting SL, the biggest disappointment for me has been Gabe Pruit. Detroit was wise to select Stuckey who seems like the kind of player Pruit was reputed to be.

 Bloggers have been too kind to Pruit IMHO and have given him a “pass” on all evaluations. Danny signing him for three years and Davis for two years rates as a blunder of immense miscalculation.

 If only the Celtics had done due diligence in researching Pruit before selecting him! Selecting a SG to play PG is fraught with risk. Those that have made it had more versatility to begin with.

Pruit has size, athleticism and a nice stroke but the rest of the package is still missing. If he has a high basketball IQ, it has yet to surface. With Danny and Doc having played the point the potential for a speedy education is close at hand. Frankly, I expected a more finished product when he was drafted and the Gerald Green experiment has reduced my patience with rehabilitation.

Dwayne Jones came as advertized. Experienced but decidedly one dimensional in scope. His resume compares favorably with that of Wallace except that he has had time to improve his game to no avail. Wallace still remains an unknown but does show greater potential for growth. Was his performance in practice and SL a fluke?

Manuel is like the marginal talent who never got to show us what he’s made of. He too seems to be a one dimensional player with limited upside. The trio of Jones, Manuel and Wallce all lack the first requirement for NBA potential.
Players who hope to make the NBA jump should first show dominance at lower levels of competition.

  Batista has done this (in the America’s games) but has yet to turn the corner in limited NBA PT. Pruit showed college excellence but failed in SL (was his college performance due more to talent or superior size and athleticism?).

 A high school All American, did Wallace fail to impress in college because he played out-of-position or because he lacked superior talent?

While we play “mind games” guessing, the fact of the matter is that from our collective vantage point, we have not seen enough of their respective performances to make a realistic value judgement.

Bigs are always on the top of the demand list, so Pollard stays because of experience. Unfortunately we haven’t seen this yet, but the rest of the story on Pollard is that he’s a hard worker in the gym, willing to do the dirty work in games, and a good BBIQ with passing skills, rebounding and hustle. Prediction: he’ll earn a vocal “cult” following once he gets going. Because of experience and his work ethic, Doc isn’t worried about these early preseason games. Batista stays because of potential.

Wings…we have plenty. Manuel goes. Jones becomes odd man out. Without a guarantee, he will be looking to hook up someplace where he can play, at least a little. C’s will keep the upside and investment in Wallace, Davis and Pruitt.

Obvious caveats: who becomes available in minor trades and releases prior to the season, and/or possibly a more serious condition of Pollard’s injury.

moskqq, I think Pruitt will end up as a 2 guard. I think him playing pg is an experiment that will end soon. House seems to be the backup pg and 2 guard and I don’t think we need a traditional pg backup. It’s nice to have a pg like Rondo, but we can play without a pg with this team. The ball is getting upcourt by the pass and that will bring quick scoring opportunities to several players. I’m sure that even without Rondo we have ballhandlers to bring it up under pressure if forced to. Thus, Pruitt stays as future 2 guard potential. I think Danny chose him for his shooting, size and athleticism, not to be a backup pg.

i think danny is really going to struggle to let go of wallace, harder to find than a defender at the two (could always resign someone like manuel out fo the d league). i know why folks like pollard, but the guy is luggage and already injured. if he’s such a great defender, why couldn’t he crack the rotation in CLE? if he’s cut, Jones, Batista and Wallace could be kept, which i think makes more sense.

While a little off topic, TrueGreen has struck a familiar sounding cord in his team/PG assessment. That musical cord immediately brought memories of the “glory years” where the Celtics were nearly invincible.

While Perk is hardly a replacement for Bill Russell at center, we do have enough roster comparisons to the celebrated years.

While Phoenix has feasted on the run and gun style of play, Boston can also play this style. It no longer will be necessary to isolate Pierce for the open shot (before defenses get set) because we now have a three-headed monster in the “Triple Threat”. Close them down and Perk is all alone for an uncontested layup. Leave a lane to the basket unguarded and Rondo will be quick to oblige.

So what happens when our opponent stops the fast break by routinely sending three defenders back on defense, we get the rebounding advantage and another ball posession. Of course, we need to play better defense to make sure our opponent’s shooting percentage stays in the 30’s.

Our achilles heel in the past has been zone defenses. Pierce, Ray Allen and House can provide an immediate answer and they are not alone in their ability to shoot 3’s at a 40% clip. Even the end of the bench (gulp! Gabe Pruit) can contribute.

While the first mentioned proviso was that we play better defense, the second proviso is that we sustain excellent ball (and player) movement so that shooters enjoy a high percentage of uncontested shots.

Lastly, old legs will need to rediscover their youth to enable this scenario to work.

The posters who think Pollard is a keeper are thinking of the Pollard of Sacramento days when he was an energy factor off the bench. None of us have seen him this season so who knows what he’s got left. But, sspence is right, the guy couldn’t get on the floor of a Cleveland team crying for bench help. I hope I’m wrong. His personality would be fun. Brandon Wallace brings D to practice and that will make guys work. That is his value this year.

I would cut Pollard or Scalabrine before I cut Batista.

The two guys who need to go are Manuel and Jones. With Posey, Tony Allen and possibly the 6-9 Brandon Wallace providing defense off the bench, I see no minutes for either Manuel or Jones. And if you have a need in January, Manuel is the kind of guy who can be brought in for successive 10-day contracts.

Brandon Wallace is a very fundamentally sound player. Same with Batista. Those are the kind of role players you want on a team dominated by three stars: guys who don’t make mistakes.

As I see it, Manuel and Jones ought to be cut and Pruitt should go to the D-league. I suppose Wallace could use some time there too, because he needs to learn the small forward position after having played center in college.

I also see Glenn Davis as a rotation player, not as the 12th or 13th man. He’s WAY more talented than Scalabrine, just not as experienced.

As far as the bench, I don’t think the Celtics are as shallow as the sporting pundits allege, but it is just preseason and the Celtics really won’t know what they have off the bench until 10 or so games in to the season.

I’m not sure who is going to get the last two roster spots….it’s safe to say that Pollard isn’t going anywhere. Out of Batista, Jones, Wallace or Manuel it is a relatively safe bet that Jackie Manuel isn’t going to be wearing Celtics Green in November. It comes down to Wallace, Jones and Batista competing for two spots. There are two distinct schools of thought. The first is that Jones may have the inside track to a spot on the roster because he adds depth to a back court that is perceived to be very frail. Jones is a slasher type guard that has a weak perimeter game; the question is will Boston want two perimeter liabilities in the backcourt. I like Jones and I think he makes this roster despite his poor perimeter play. The second school of thought is that with Pollard already nipped by the injury bug and Perks track record of getting in to foul trouble often and early, Batista and Wallace will solidify the front court. I haven’t been terribly impressed with Batista. He looked awkward with his back to the basket, and was a turnover waiting to happen when ever he put the ball on the floor. He lacks athleticism and didn’t appear to be terribly strong. Wallace is an intriguing player; he has all the necessary athletic talent to be a very good. He is a 3 with a 4’s body that played out of position at the 5 in college. Of the three I would like to see Wallace and Jones stick around, but I think Boston probably goes with Batista instead of Wallace.
—Fin

I wish Scalabrine could be waived

The big advantage Scal has over Davis right now is the fact that he can pull the opposing PF, or center if that’s who they stick on him, away from the basket with his ability to shoot the 3. He also does a much better job defensively at this point. Hopefully that will change, but if you couldn’t see the positives Scal brought to the floor in that last game then you’re blind. He hustles and sets good picks and can knock down the face up. H

… He can go out and play with the star players and not miss a beat.

Those who are commenting on who they should keep based on upside are crazy. We do not want upside! We need NOW factor. Unless a player can turn into a perennial all-star they shouldn’t be kept based on potential at this point. 2-3 years from now we start looking for upside. Now we are filling up a hopefully championship roster.

The thing that KG amazed me with more than anything was his ability to pull down a rebound and have it in the PG’s hands seemingly before he even touched the ground. We are going to get some nice transition points with this talent.

So much for Ray Allen being too old and injured and washed up. Where are you now doubters!? He is so smooth. Life will be easy for him out there knocking down kick-outs.

We still have adequate time for practice performances and 6 more preseason games before a decision needs to be made. The suspense and forthcoming competition for the last two roster spots, apart from team perfomance, will add additional spice to the preseason. The extent of the Pollard injury could make the final decision academic.

Scalabrine is an above average big defender with a three point shot (40% last year). He has a high basketball IQ, rarely makes mental mistakes and his greatest detriment is his lack of superior NBA athleticism and skill.

Veteran experience and defensive ability seem to have a high priority this year. Scal finally recognizes his role on this team. He has good court awareness, sets excellent and frequent picks and spaces the court well to maximize the team’s offensive opportunities. He always exerts maximum effort and is a positive locker-room presence.

While his first season here was an unmitigated disaster, my personal opinion (and I realize I’m in the minority) is that he’s still our 8th or 9th best player. If he could learn to rebound as well as he boxes out, we’d be that much better as a playoff team. I should add that Scal, though limited athletically, is a better than average help defender too.

Glenn Davis is an intriguing multidimensional talent who’s eventual upside remains a mystery. We’re lucky to have his skill level in our player developmental system.

Well said mosqq. It is apparent that you aren’t looking at him with the veiled hate-filled eyes of some of the masses. He is athletically mediocre, but is a valuable piece of a championship team.

It’s also hard to crack the rotation of a team when you have a similar player (Varaejo) who is filling it nicely and you have been injured much of the year. His lack of PT in Cleveland doesn’t mean much at all. If he is often injured here, he should have the same problem though. It will be hard to not look at Powe as a similar player, and all but impossible to out-work him.

please cut pollard - he’s been wash up’d for years

Wow, I can’t believe I agree with Brick. Batista and Wallace are keepers because of their size. We don’t need more than 5 people on the team for 2 guard positions. Rondo, Ray, House, TA, and Pruitt will suffice. Manuel and Jones are out. Powe, Batista, and Davis trade minutes depending on who is playing best. Pollard rides the pine as insurance on a Perk injury.

Why do all people deal with Wallace and Jones as if they are similar? Jones is a 4 year veteran who has proven in the league that he can stay in front of players at PG, SG and SF. Wallace has just upside, which is limited. We are not talking about size and potential when we want to fill the last spot, we are talking about how much a player can help us, and Jones will do it much better than Wallace (if injuries occur). And why keep Wallace and try to develop him? We have our hands full with Big Baby and Pruitt. And at least we know what Jones can do, unlike Wallace.

Joes is a 4-year veteran who has done absolutely nothing in the league. He got some minutes last year when the league’s worst team shut everyone else down. He is a complete waste of a roster spot, because there are 15 guys in the D-league who are almost as good, starting with Jackie Manuel.

Brandon Wallace is already a better player than Jones. He was a coach’s son (and a McDonald’s All-American) and it shows. Wallace is taller, is a better rebounder and has a shot. Defensively, Wallace is much better equipped to guard big forwards than Jones.

The Celtics already have two guys (Posey, Allen) who can do what Jones can do. They really don’t have anyone like Wallace.

I’m with Brickowski re. Wallace/Jones. I’m betting Scal and Perk both look a lot better due to the skill around them. They are complimentary players with a capital ‘C’. I hope you pro-Pollard guys are right but I’d rather feed Big Baby and Batista (assuming he is a keeper) whatever mins Pollard would get.

We all agree on the top ten Right? Rajon; Ray Ray; Pierce; K G & Perk. Then house;posey; T Allen;Scalibrine and Powe add pollard Pruit and Davis Thus, as I see it we are only talking about positons 14& 15. If we need to rely on those two positions to bolster our in game or season we wil be in deep——-. I am sure Doc can put combination of the top ten guys on the floor to cover Injuries and Foul problems without going to the 11-15 positions. thus we need to look at player development for the last five positions. in that regard, we have already included Pruit and Davis with pollard on a one year deal thus i would think it wise to develop Batista and Wallace as “D” Leageurers occuping the 14th and 15th positions. thus cutting Jones and Manuel. This is the only thing that makes sense to me

/agree Keep Wallace, cut Manuel and Jones (Jones has really been underwhelming for me). Wallace would go to the D League until he works on his body a little and can contend for minutes (say if TA or Posey go out), Wallace is, like Powe, a solid building block for the future (5yrs) when our current stars are done.

“Milk Dud” Davis is really interesting. I think if we can keep his weight under control (notice I would say anything about trying to get him to lose weight) he can be a really interesting player with a couple years experience under his belt. He could be the second coming of Barkley, he just doesnt seem to have the same intense/nasty on-court attitude.

Anyone else have a sick feeling Pollard is going to be perenially on the IR?

Pollard will be a rotation guy when he;s healtjhy

I agree with P2 100 percent! (the ‘’Are you guys crazy?’’ post, p2’s first one)

Wallace and Manuel will/should be cut.

The Celtics for some reason like to have many SG’s and SF’s. Naturally they are important positions but we never have enough height on the team. I believe it has been since the late 80’s since we had enough height. So it would be nice to keep Wallace & Batista who are agile and will be good role players. Big Baby Davis and Powe will dominant second units, Powe at the beginning of the season and Davis as he learns the NBA. The 3rd units are important in the NBA these days with many injuries and with so many teams keeping players fresh for the 100 plus game season including playoffs. They are important pieces to make a championship team.

No, my top 10 is KG, Shuttlesworth, PP, RR, Perkins (like everyone else). Then my 6-10 would be Posey, House, Tony Allen, Davis, Batista. Powe might replace Davis or Batista; it’s too early to tell.

Powe (or Davis or Batista) and Scalabrine would be spot players. Pollard dresses if someone is hurt. Pruitt and Wallace go to the D-league. That’s 15.

(I don’t like small lineups. I want KG at pf and a widebody like Perk, Davis or Batista next to him. I want Garnett coming over to help from the weak side. I do NOT want Garnett having to put a body on bigger players.)

I agree that I don’t want KG playing center. That is why I think both Pollard and Batista stay. Pruitt is definitely a dead man walking in regard to roster spot. Wallace will likely be in D-League. Jones is on the bubble and probably gone too.

I think Jones could be a decent NBA rotation guy. He did shoot 47.7% lst year in 1600 minutes. The guy is a pretty good defender too. He doesn’t pass the ball much and isn’t much of a rebonder. If TA’s healthy enough to be the 4th swingman on this team, after RA, PP and Posey, Ainge probably keeps Wallace on potential. I would probably keep Jones as insurance, figuring that Wallace won’t be ready to step in and play minutes if one of the other swingman went down with an injury.

Then again, we really haven’t seen what Wallace can do against real NBA competition. If he can be a Balkman type, a tall. athletic, energy guy off the bench, it might be wise to keep him around and give him a chance. Pollard’s injury history is troubling, but they are going to keep three centers on this roster. I see Batista sticking and actually carving out a role as a 18 minute a night banger. Pollard will end up as the odd man out, like last year in Cleveland.