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Babblings: Nets-Knicks

Last night began a string of three trips to Madison Square Garden over a five day span.  As those familiar with my work at Taking it to the Rack may recall, I view each trip to the Garden -- or any NBA game for that matter -- as a total experience and generally a set of happenings to be cherished.  These trips relegate me to the kingdom of incoherence that is best expressed through bullet points, and hence come the Babblings.  Away we go.

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Star-divide

  • Jamal Crawford isn't going to get a lot of love in this space on a regular basis.  Generally speaking, he comes off as a chucker whose shooting is mediocre and whose shot selection is worse.  Last night?  Simply not the case.  The man was off the charts, playing the most complete game I have ever seen from him.  Crawford was a slick 11-for-18 from the field (including 4-for-7 from deep) en route to 32 points, while also going for 7 boards and 3 assists.  He did the majority of the ball handling, actually played a little defense and was the Knicks' unquestioned leader on the floor all night in Stephon Marbury's absence.  Without a doubt, the excellent play and leadership from Crawford was the primary story of this contest.  Well done, Mal.
  • Fun fact: Jason Kidd entered this game 19-2 against the Knicks since joining the Nets.  Make that 19-3 now.  Speaking of Kidd, the Knicks did a good job cutting off his passing lanes and preventing him from torching them as a distributor, but their traditionally poor closeouts allowed Kidd a variety of wide-open looks that led to him going 8-for-16 and finishing with 18 for the game.  Again, though, the Knicks had to feel pretty good in holding him to 7 assists and 7 boards (he leads his team with 8.7 boards per).  Ugh.  Can't stand this whole business of having to praise the Knicks.
  • Sean Williams looks like a nice defensive player.  If he can stay out of trouble off the floor and work hard on his game, he could become a very dangerous all-around player.  Last night, however, he had his shot blocked by Eddy Curry.  So let's not get too excited yet.
  • Free Renaldo!  Balkman is barely averaging 10 minutes per game for December and played just three last night.  Jared Jeffries played 14 minutes, and Quentin Richardson played 31.  Here's the problem with this: Jeffries has been a complete disaster with the Knicks.  He can't shoot the ball at all, serves as a complete black hole on offense, doesn't rebound particularly well and is at best a decent defender.  Richardson is a starter primarily because of his outside shooting touch and his efforts defensively.  Given that he has been hurt since the start of the season, however, Richardson has been largely unproductive this season, shooting a putrid 32.2 percent from the field and 29.2 percent from deep.  Beyond that, he clearly labors when trying to move on the court and as such isn't at his best in the other non-shooting aspects of the game, which means that he adds nothing to the Knicks.  The big knock on Balkman is that he can't shoot, which as of yet is true.  But he does hustle, play defense, rebound and run the floor very well; essentially, he does everything the other two can currently do, and he largely does it better and with more energy.  This guy should be taking the vast majority of the minutes being eaten by Jeffries and Richardson.  Makes no sense that he isn't.
  • Sadly for this individual, after watching the same type of atrocity on several occasions this season, it is time for what is quickly becoming a staple of all Knicks-related Babblings pieces: This feature is called "Wondering Why Mardy Collins Plays Basketball For a Living."  This is inspired by the final quite memorable two minutes and 45 seconds of the first quarter last night, a time span for which the box score doesn't even come close to telling the whole story.  Collins, considered some combination of defensive specialist and point guard, entered the game with the Knicks leading, 16-15.  The Knicks' only basket for the rest of the quarter came as a result of Collins throwing up an air ball that missed badly enough that Eddy Curry was able to grab it and lay it back in.  Beyond that, Collins succeeded in, well, nothing really.  After the Curry putback, Collins began a run that included (in near succession) getting stripped by Jason Kidd, two terrible closeouts on one defensive possession, completely losing his man and floating in space on the following defensive possession (leading to a Nets basket), throwing a pass away, managing to get it back and proceeding to brick a wide-open three-pointer off the backboard, throwing a not-even-close lob pass directed to Eddy Curry, completely bailing on playing any sort of help defense as the Nets went coast-to-coast with the clock running down, and, finally, bricking another three to end the quarter. Nets 24, Knicks 18.  For his efforts, Mardy was the proud recipient of a front row seat to the rest of the contest, which turned out to be one of Isiah Thomas's better coaching maneuvers as of late.
  • In light of yesterday's Eddy Curry column, it is worth noting that devout Knicks fan, writing colleague (Money from the Parking Lot), good friend and guest for the week Willy Po points out that Curry had one of his best performances as a Knick, not just because of his 23 points, but because of the way he got those points.  As Willy Po deftly points out, Curry is often guilty of waiting until he has the ball in his hands to start pounding down low, which leads to him having to handle the ball and make decisions with it, which largely leads to trouble.  Last night, he really worked hard to establish position before the ball came, allowing him to make quick moves to either get the basket or draw a foul with greater efficacy than usual.  Good work, Eddy, and good call, Willy Po.
  • From the alleged charity stripe: The Knicks went 24-for-36 (66.7 percent), and the Nets went 7-for-16 (43.8 percent).  Antoine Wright on his own managed to miss four straight over three possessions with inside of five minutes to play in the fourth quarter.  Not good times.
  • Don't know why more people don't like Josh Boone.  Seems like the same thing from this kid every time: He takes a few high percentage shots, plays hard on both ends of the floor and rebounds a bit.  Against the Knicks, he went 5-for-5 from the field (all lay-ups and dunks), blocked two shots and grabbed six boards in 31 minutes.  He had a bit more trouble with Eddy Curry than he should have, but all in all, it wasn't a terrible night.  He could be a decent role player for some team that needs a big body down the road.
  • Malik Allen is redefining the looseness of the concept of being a starter in this league.  Dude plays five minutes to start each half and then takes a seat.  Last night, he played eleven minutes, shot the ball four times, did little else and fell a few minutes shy of his season average of 16.9 per.  The Nets miss Mikki Moore.  Yeesh.
  • For the one time this year, Zach Randolph's complete lack of defensive effort helped the Knicks.  The Nets pushed the ball against the Knicks in what looked to be an odd man rush, with Randolph slogging behind the play, but when they reversed the ball to the right wing, Z-Bo was just finally getting back into the play and wound up haphazardly being in the right position to make a steal.  As Walt Frazier would say, fortuitous indeed.
  • One more Jamal Crawford note: His buzzer-beating three-pointer from 30 feet at the end of the third quarter was quite cool.  Once again, a very nice game for Mal.
  • Let's go back to Willy Po for some analysis on the Knicks' defense of the pick and roll: "There are many effective approaches to defending the pick and roll.  Completely ignoring the ball-handler who comes off the screen?  Not one of them."  Bill Powell needs his own Knicks column, stat.
  • All in all, another memorable experience at the Garden.  Gyro II (on the corner across the street) hit the spot as always, and I feel obligated to send out another thank-you to the two most pleasant people at the Garden these days: Axel and Patty, the two guys who work at the concession stand on the right side of the foyer-like area as fans enter the Garden.  These guys have been enduring the demands of myself (and a variety of other pranksters) for Qyntel Woods retro jerseys for years now, and they have always done it with wan smiles and hearty laughs.  Thanks for always putting up with us, fellas.

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“Wondering Why Mardy Collins Plays Basketball For a Living.”

Check the game logs for last season, pay close attention to the last 10 games. Mardy was putting up quality performance after quality performance coming close to a triple double three seperate times and scoring double digits plus a minimum of five boards and five assist with regularity.

You don’t put up numbers like that by chance. Not in this league. Not with the teammates he had. Not against the teams he was playing against – NJ, Toronto, Chicago and Detroit all playing their main guys big minutes gearing up for the playoffs – Those type of numbers across the board, that level of versatility …. numbers like that don’t come up often by guys who can’t play … and the numbers don’t come close to describing his poise and dependability out there (dependability is a really underrated skill, especially on a team like the Knicks).

It’s clearly likely that he can’t replicate those performances … but it’s also clear that he’s an NBA level player and belongs in this league and on the floor.

I watched a bunch of those games, the Toronto one stands out as most impressive. The word to describe Mardy …. steady. The guy plays within himself. Nice start for a role player.

In college he was a converted wing-to-point guard and has very nice point skills – handle, passing, vision (probably more down to his size and ability to look over the top of defenders but still good), execution, direction skills – but he’s never been a point. When Zeke drafted him he began bringing him back over to the two guard until injuries forced Mardy back to the point for a short while. It’s why the Knicks really wanted him in Summer League this year to have him back training at the two guard (he was injured).

As for the defensive specialist rep, he’s an excellent zone defender because of his length, intelligence and decent athleticism. One-on-one defensive skills are solid. Just another young solid defender who gets confused with a specialist. The kid Affalo in Detroit is a specialist. Mardy plays defense. That’s a big difference. Mardy is no stopper at this point in his career.

Everything about his game is steady, he’s a quality young guy who is and will be a nice role player in this league.

Oh and for what he’s most famous for – he knows how to throw an entry pass into the post – best in Knickland at this. It’s a skill they need more of (Crawford the only other who looks to the post with regularity)

If you didn’t see any of those games you should chase down a tape because his performances were very impressive.

He’s the type of two guard that every team with a scoring point should try and track down … think Charlie Bell (a guy I’d compare to Mardy) … so why the heck is Zeke not playing him more?

He was starting to work his way into the rotation until a recent injury so hopefully we’ll see more of Mardy and less of Q/Steph

by Who on Dec 16, 2007 3:31 AM EST reply actions  

Sean Williams and Josh Boone looked good out there together, once again. NJ should continue giving them some minutes. Might be a good combo for them as they try to re-group and go forward.

They really help the Nets quickness out there and gives J-Kidd something to work with when he wants to push the ball.

Malik Allen is a decent player but he’s an end of rotation guy

by Who on Dec 16, 2007 3:35 AM EST reply actions  

Who,

Truth is, I actually did see a lot of those games at the end of last year, and as you suggested we all should be, I was impressed with almost everything I saw from Mardy. He had a couple of nights where he put up really absurd rebounding figures for a guard, he played defense, hustled a lot and even occasionally appeared to get it for a few minutes at a time offensively. I would not disagree for a second with you that he was one of the few bright spots at the end last year for the Knicks.

That said, having watched him play several times this year, it really appears that he has taken a major step backwards. As of now he simply looks lost offensively. We knew he wasn’t a shooter coming in, but he doesn’t handle the ball very well and isn’t particularly able when it comes to taking care of it either. Of 301 NBA players who qualify for John Hollinger’s turnover rate statistic (on pace to play more than 500 minutes per game, which Mardy isn’t), 291 turn the ball over on 20 percent of their used possessions or less. For his part, Collins has a turnover rate of 24.2 Not good times. His game right now is primarily a defensive one, but as you said, he has a lot to learn there as well.

While I wouldn’t deny that Collins certainly has some tools — and certainly, I went a bit over the top with the name of the Collins feature — I can’t right now agree with your assessment that he has been steady. At the end of last year, yes. This season, he has been putrid. Perhaps he’ll develop — and for his sake, I hope he does, since he appears to be one of the less dis-likable Knicks at this point (albeit perhaps because we have known him for a shorter period of time) — but for now, watching him play has not been a particularly fruitful experience for Knicks fans.

Thanks as always for your thoughts, and I look forward (especially now that I’m back in my native New York and will have the chance to watch them every night again for quite some time) to continuing to monitor Mardy’s development with you and seeing how this plays out.

-sw

by Steve Weinman on Dec 16, 2007 12:08 PM EST reply actions  

Who,

Yep, I liked for the most part what I saw from Williams and Boone, though I took my little jab at Williams for having Curry block his shot. The athleticism of both gives Kidd some wingmen to run with and should lead to plenty of easy garbage baskets for both of them in the days to come.

I’ve always said that Renaldo Balkman would average 10-12 points per game on fast-break dunks alone if he played in New Jersey with Kidd. The same could be true to an even greater extent for either of these two.

-sw

by Steve Weinman on Dec 16, 2007 12:09 PM EST reply actions  

That is an atrocious number (turnover ratio) for Mardy.

What was it last year for him?

I’m not aware of that statistic, well aware but don’t know it.

TO Turnover Ratio is the percentage of a player’s possessions that end in a turnover. Turnover Ratio = (Turnover x 100) divided by [(FGA (FTA x 0.44) Assists Turnovers]

A case of it just being early or was it poor last year too? Mardy only has 9 games right now. Last year was what around 15% (hazarding a guess too lazy to pick up a calculator, my bad)

Very disappointed in that usage stat. I think they make these statistics overly difficult on themselves. They should track number of touches. Time ball spent per touch. Then zones where touches occur (like nba hotspots for shots) and track turnovers, shots, assists and all that from there. It would be much more useful, you could learn so much about how much of a threat a player is.

What do you think of that Turnover Rate? Accurately describe what it aims too?

It seems dependant on guys taking shots at first glance … which Mardy isn’t doing right now. He has 12 turnovers in 111 minutes against 12 dimes. Ain’t good but it ain’t awful either.

I don’t have insider so I don’t know much about Hollinger’s stats.

Seems overly harsh to put a young player down over such a few number of games after he’s already shown he has some abilities. Especially with the veterans and team in general misperforming around him.

I’m convinced on Mardy being an NBA level talent and having a future as a solid role player.

by Who on Dec 16, 2007 10:28 PM EST reply actions  

Who,

Your comments really speak to a bigger issue — one that I will address in this space in a longer form column sooner or later — about the value of advanced stats.

To be truthful, my own venture into advanced stats is in its infancy. For the most part, I’m an old-school believer that, as someone who understands the game, if I can watch a guy play basketball and occasionally look at a box score (although that certainly doesn’t tell all), I can understand what I need to do about the individual. That said, thanks to a variety of individuals (notably HSCS from Thank You Isiah), I have gained much more of an appreciation over the past few months for certain stats, such as offensive efficiency and defensive efficiency and per minute stats. It does make sense to account for pace and for playing time and the like, and it’s good that we can do it.

That said, I’m still wary of the use of metrics with formulas that aren’t immediately very comprehensible (PER comes to mind), because they end up being “numbers that take a lot into account” but without a ton of further investigation, I’m not sure how much I learn from them at this point. That said, perhaps I just need to do more research and learn a bit more, and I’ll come to appreciate them. Or I’ll find that I still believe that they over-complexify the game. Truth is, I’m not sure, and I’m still learning. I am trying a little bit at a time to read up as much as I can about a variety of different methods of statistical analysis, and like everyone else, I’m beginning to pick and choose what I like and dislike. That wasn’t so much as knock on Hollinger’s PER for example, but more just an indication that I need to learn more about it, though my initial wariness toward that type of metric in general remains.

I think most if not all of these stats can be of service in moderation. Usage rate gives us some statistical proof of how much of a team’s offense a particular player accounts for and how much he controls the ball. I have long shared your sentiment about the issue of tracking touches, but as we aren’t at that point yet, I don’t mind using usage rate simply to help add some more perspective to the picture.

Turnover rate (the issue at hand) doesn’t tell us everything about a player’s ball-handling, but, again, it adds to the picture. I made the mistake of forgetting about the fact that it was an Insider stat when I referenced it in the comment, and I should have added, for instance, the fact that Mardy’s TO ratio was a shade over 14 last season, before jumping to 24 this season, at least adding some (how much depends on how you value the stat) credence to the belief that he has regressed with the ball this year. If nothing else, it provides an impetus to investigate the matter further.

Undoubtedly, I was hard on Mardy in my assessment of him from Saturday night’s game and overall, but he was putrid that night, and I wanted to emphasize the frustration that I would be feeling with his play were I a Knicks booster (as you can tell, I’m definitively not). I’ll be back there Monday and Wednesday (with Babblings columns to come for each of those games) as well as watching them as often as I can for these next few weeks, and I think we’ll both have much more to say about Mardy’s play over that time period. I’m not writing him off for the future by any means, and your assessment could certainly prove to be right — but for now I remain unimpressed.

Ultimately, I think the even greater point here again comes back to that issue of advanced stats and what their relative values are in the greater scheme of analysis. It’s my prediction that you and I (and any others that would care to participate on this board) will be chattering a lot about advanced stats-related issues as time continues here at CB. I’m certainly looking forward to it.

Thanks as always for your thoughts.

-sw

by Steve Weinman on Dec 17, 2007 2:19 AM EST reply actions  

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