Daily Babble: Happy Trails, Scott Skiles!
by Steve Weinman on Dec 26, 2007 8:23 AM EST
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PrintLet's keep it fairly brief about Scott Skiles today, as both the national media and blogosphere have done a fairly effective job of covering his firing by the Bulls on Monday: Simply put, his window expired.
There is no coaching style that leads to a more restrictive window of opportunity in the NBA than that of the latest man to become ex-coach of the Chicago Bulls. While every coach only has so long to get through and make it work with his players, Skiles likely has the least time of all. He is the rigid taskmaster and disciplinarian, the type of coach who isn't afraid to let his cast of NBA stars have it whenever he deems it necessary.
This can work for stretches. Particularly with young teams, as the Bulls certainly were when Skiles inherited them, the disciplinarian style adds a steadying influence and helps the team start doing the right things on and off the court to head in a positive direction overall. Credit Skiles for having exactly this effect in his early time in Chicago and for helping to be a part of building the Baby Bulls into a repeat playoff team in the Eastern Conference.
But it was inevitable that it would end like this. Because ultimately, nobody likes getting yelled at. It can work for a while as a motivational tool and as something that can be accepted as part of a particular coach's style. But after a point, the same voice yelling the same words over and over no longer resonates the way it once did. The players build up a tolerance and begin tuning out the coach. In the NBA, where the inmates largely run the asylum (the most stark contrast between the pros and the college and high school levels), there isn't a way to truly discipline these players with any efficacy. And that is largely when they stop getting better.
The best-case scenario from there is that the team simply hits a plateau. After a while though, that plateau turns into a decline if there is no welcome influence pushing a team to keep making itself better. They key then becomes removing the coach before the regression becomes steep to the point of being irreparable. This Bulls team has clearly regressed thus far, but there is still much talent and youth on this roster, and as my buddy and Chicago native Mays said recently, "There is still a good basketball team under there somewhere."
So the time had come. Scott Skiles did his job in Chicago -- playing a role in helping the Bulls return to relevance -- and John Paxson has done half of his with regard to the coaching position. He has dumped the one that needed to be removed, and now he must find the one to help the Bulls take the next step forward.
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Any ideas on a good cadidate to replace Skiles?
I’m struggling. What type of coach do you want there? The Skiles mold might be the only one that fits.
Plus what are the expectations now? …. is this still a playoff team? I had them out in the first round but with their struggles and others growth …. I’m not sold they have it in them to make the playoffs
Who,
I’m having the same struggles with this myself. Originally, I thought that Larry Brown would ultimately be the guy to replace Scott Skiles and take this team over the top. The problem is that I thought it would take one or two more second-round exits for that to happen, thus placing the Bulls in a position where they just needed needed to ‘get over the hump.’ Clearly, that isn’t the case right now. This team isn’t ready for Larry Brown, and I’m not sure who gets the job done. I do think they need to hire the man for the long-term as soon as they can rather than waiting it out with an interim coach, but that’s a tough task in-season, and I’m not sure I see this happening prior to the summer.
Bad as the Bulls have been, the East is very tightly packed, and even at 13th in the conference, the Bulls sit just two games out of the eighth seed. If this is still a very good basketball team (as I believe it is) that simply got tired of hearing Skiles’s voice, they should at least have it in them to pick up the pace enough to grab a berth in the East. From there though, it’s anyone’s guess.
Any other thoughts from anyone out there about the next Bulls’ coach (or at least the next non-interim one) and the adjusted expectations?
-sw
P.S. My apologies, Who, for not being able to address as many of your comments as I would have liked to as of late. Time has been at a premium, but I’ll be doing my best to get back to responding to your comments as often as I can — your responses are not unappreciated. Very much the opposite.
When many were calling for Doc’s head last year, Skiles was often mentioned by many on this blog as a replacement. I don’t know much about Skiles, but he seems to have lost the players. I put much of the blame on Paxson who didn’t extend Deng and Gordon, and probably didn’t tell them why. He also did nothing to improve the franchise after being complimented on what a great job he did to get to where he got last year. If things aren’t going well, fire the coach. Just makes you appreciate what we have in Boston. Things weren’t going well and our GM understood why, as did the coach. When everyone was calling for Doc’s head Danny made the team better as opposed at firing Doc. All this while both were under fire from the fans and media.
I like the idea of Jim Boylan, more the sight of seeing what he’s capable of rather than how good a fit he is for Chicago. Likely their interim guy (although I don’t think he’s coaching the next match, a different coach is). Some teams were rumoured to be thinking about him, over the last two years, as a guy who might be able step up to a head coaching gig. Be interesting to see what he can do.
JVG hasn’t been mentioned at all. Flying under the radar. He could work.
Might be tough for a coach without past pedigree to come in. Ben Wallace hasn’t been the easiest guy to deal with over the years (Carlisle, Flip, Skiles). I’m not sure how easy Ty Thomas is to coach either, he didn’t seem to be listening to Skiles.
An offensive minded coach …. I’m just not sold they have the personnel to make that work on the court. Plus the difference in quality of offensive coaches is huge, it’s a big gamble taking on a guy who hasn’t established himself and the one’s that have already hold top jobs.
I’m also a little worried about Kirk Hinrich’s decision making and ability to run a free-flowing offense. I think he’s the type of point that does much better under a controlling coach … Carlisle but then you think of Big Ben and that’s probably not happening.
Another demanding, controlling coach looks the best fit. So that will have to change the checklist …. the Bulls need a different voice than Skiles (which likely rules out Boylan). So they need to look for a character, a great communicator who gets on with the players … especially if they can’t change their style of play. Back to JVG.
I’d love to see Dean Demopoulos get a shot as a head coach but I’m not sure this is a good situation for a first time head coach.
Hopefully Fratello has been ruled out. Paul Silas would be a good candidate but I don’t see anyone signing him (I think he’s a good coach, seems NBA teams disagree with me).
Del Harris? Has he retired? He might be tempted.
Quick look at some others like Terry Porter or Kurt Rambis … I think Paxson will want experience. He’s always valued players who’ve established themselves. He’ll probably look for the same in his coach.
It is really tough to guess who they’ll go after.
My apologies, Who, for not being able to address as many of your comments as I would have liked to as of late. Time has been at a premium, but I’ll be doing my best to get back to responding to your comments as often as I can — your responses are not unappreciated. Very much the opposite.
Oh no problem at all. Half time I’m ranting on at myself.
Appreciate all your work, especially over the busy Christmas period
First bad spell of the season …. will we have people calling for Skiles to replace Doc? What about if the playoffs don’t go to plan?
What point do we reach before the first serious Skiles mention?
Ready made replacement who’s available …
If Danny understood about Doc …. he might not hold it against Skiles.
Does no one think the bulls really aren’t that good and we’re over achievers to begin with??
Their top player is NO superstar, Deng doesn’t make anyone better and can’t help out in other ways when his shot isn’t falling
The same with Ben Gordon. When he’s on he can be really good, but when he’s not he doesn’t do anything else.
Hinrich was probably some really great basketball player in his hometown and was usable in college, but in terms of talent in comparison to the NBA talents of Chris Paul and Deron Williams or even Rondo, he falls way short.
Ben Wallace is done at his age, on top of the fact that he offered no offensive game to begin with.
And Nocioni who could probably be the heart and soul of the team gets irratic minutes. They needed him to play major minutes at his passionate level.
Yahoo! -
Just-fired Chicago Bulls ’ Coach Scott Skiles will have a job next season, and his team will improve. Miami Heat Coach Pat Riley has become a big fan of Skiles, and the two spent time together at the Coach’s Annual Meeting in September. The New York Knicks , New Jersey Nets , and Philadelphia 76ers probably will give him a hard look
Jeez you gotta feel for Mo Cheeks. He’s an endangered specious down there in Phily. Skiles is an Ed Stefanski type coach. Watch this space.
The Pat Riley thing … He likes to hire from within. Spoelstra has been groomed for years now. Pat’s a loyal guy. Don’t see that changing.
Skiles and Kidd didn’t get on the first time, plus Thorn loves Lawrence Frank and thinks Frank is doing everything possible to help this team (he’s not, very un-sure of Frank, some wierd decisions over in Jersey from him).
I understand the point that the disciplinarian mode of teaching often fails to work; however, it don’t see this failure as “inevitable.” I think there is a fine line between yelling at and alienating a team and discliplining while still keeping a team loyal (ie. Bill Bilichick).
by grafite on Dec 26, 2007 12:48 PM EST reply actions
grafite said:
I understand the point that the disciplinarian mode of teaching often fails to work; however, it don’t see this failure as “inevitable.” I think there is a fine line between yelling at and alienating a team and discliplining while still keeping a team loyal (ie. Bill Bilichick).
I think the seperating factor is communication skills and player management skills.
Jerry Sloan is a disciplinarian but he works with his players and treats them well. Same with Popovich.
Skiles never has. That was the true problem with Skiles and why, I anyway, saw it as inevitable. It’s why he’ll only ever be a short term coaching option.
Larry Bird justly said that a coach can coach a team for three years before slowly losing his handle. And that’s why he left abruptly soon after Indiana played the 2001 Finals. Nice article, coaches are “disciplinarians” or “players’ coaches”, but they have a “window”, and Skiles’ closed as soon as the Bulls started losing. That’s what always happens with young teams: when Bird and McHale were rookies, Bill Fitch’s drill sergeant attitude worked well, but as soon as they became stars and they learned how to handle the aspect of the NBA life, Fitch was on his way out and it was not by chance that he was replaced by a “players’ coach” like K.C. Jones. “Doc” Rivers, another “players’ coach”, is exactly what our team needs now.
Who,
It’s always good to know someone’s reading and keeping me honest. As for your questions about Doc and Skiles, I have a very hard time seeing Skiles as a fit for this particular team. The motivation to play hard is clearly there with the three stars pushing the rest of the pack. KG doesn’t need anyone trying to ‘up’ his intensity. Even if there were to be questions about Doc later in the season, I think the desire would still be for someone of his style — that laid-back, let the players play deal — but simply a better tactician.
Here’s hoping we just keep rolling along and it never comes to that.
-sw
Legend,
Thanks for the comment; glad you liked the piece. My sentiments echo yours exactly: the Skiles drill sergeant approach is ideal for a young team that needs to learn to focus and come to play every night out. Older teams simply need someone to act more as a guide and as a stronger X’s and O’s coach for the most part. The best part of Skiles is something the Celtics players already have. Just look at KG in the huddle. Doc or someone of his nature is absolutely the right fit here. Couldn’t agree more.
-sw
nazzbo,
Good salary point. Again, it comes down to that ‘inmates running the asylum’ issue. If the players want to stop listening to the screamer, they can do it without the threat of truly harmful repercussions. With the exception of a very select few cases, the players virtually always hold the ultimate power at this point.
-sw
TrueGreen,
I would agree that Pax is very much to blame on a lot of levels for the way he has handled this team since the end of last season. I echoed several of those sentiments in the linked column below back when I was writing at Taking it to the Rack. I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on that if you get a chance to take a look at it. http://mvn.com/nba-source/2007/11/05/whats-wrong-with-the-bulls/
All that said, as you mentioned at the beginning, Skiles did lose this team, and it was time for him to go. So while Pax may have been guilty of “when in doubt, bounce couch,” the ends might justify the means here regardless.
And yes, I would say that nearly all of my thoughts on the NBA these days just make me more and more thankful about what’s going on in green this year. Wonderful, isn’t it?
Looking forward to hearing more from you.
-sw
bf17290,
I’m not ready to concede that about this Chicago team. Indeed, it’s certainly my hope that your theory about them is the case, but I think we need to see how the perform under a new coach now that one of the variables has been changed. Worth keeping in mind that at just 22, Deng has a long way to go and will continue to develop more and more. Kirk Hinrich played the last two seasons at a very high level, and I would give him at least the rest of this season — if not the beginning of next, with a clean slate — to see if he can recapture that before writing him off.
My biggest agreement with you comes with regard to Gordon. I think he’s easily the least valuable of their major cogs, as he is a shooter with little else to his game. He is undersized at the two, doesn’t handle the ball well, isn’t a great passer and isn’t much of a defender. While he certainly has the capability to heat up and score points in bundles, he is only one of many in this league who can do that at the swing positions, and it’s been and continues to be my contention that he will be of more value to them as a trading piece than a player in his career, should they be able to get someone to overpay.
I’d be thrilled if your conclusions about this team turn out to be correct, but I think there is still some wait-and-see aspect to this.
Thanks for your thoughts; looking forward to hearing more from you.
-sw
Ancient Red,
Can’t agree with you about the geographic area itself (as I am a New York native), but so far as the teams are concerned, absolutely. The Isiah Era has been a four-year treat for me (and counting), and seeing the Bulls struggle out of the gate this season has certainly been excellent for all us residents of CeltsNation.
-sw
Who,
While I’ve generally been a Riley booster, I’m not sure how willing I am to interchange “likes to promote from within” with “loyal” in the post-Stan Van era in Miami. Just a thought.
-sw
Hahaha .. good point. He wasn’t very hesitant with the old shank in SVG’s back there.
I’ve always felt that had a lot more to do with Mickey Arison and Shaquille O’Neal than it had with Pat Riley but very true and good point. Others think otherwise but that’s how I saw it.
He’s still the man that gave SVG his break after years of SVG being overlooked for other head coaching jobs. Riley was training him for what was it …. 8 years? SVG was hardly a known quantity.
He’s already come out and said Spoelstra is likely his successor (think it was around the Ron Rothstein episode when Riley stopped coaching mid-season). No sure things in basketball though.
If I were a betting man I’d stay with Riley promoting an assistant over hiring an outside hand, if it’s still his choice when it comes to time for a replacement (today would be good).
iowa plowboy,
Sadly, the only combo former-pax-teammate/inept-executive I can think of off the top of my head is currently working in Charlotte, where he possesses the youth rather than those veterans to send over to Pax. He’ll need his McHale figure to make this all work…
…but while I’m busy taking the analogy too far, I certainly enjoyed your comment.
-sw
Legend said:
Larry Bird justly said that a coach can coach a team for three years before slowly losing his handle. And that’s why he left abruptly soon after Indiana played the 2001 Finals.
Bird, based on the principle you stated, signed a three year contract to coach Indiana. He didn’t leave abruptly. He said he would coach 3 years and left when his contract was over.
Steve Weinman said:
TrueGreen,I would agree that Pax is very much to blame on a lot of levels for the way he has handled this team since the end of last season. I echoed several of those sentiments in the linked column below back when I was writing at Taking it to the Rack. I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on that if you get a chance to take a look at it. http://mvn.com/nba-source/2007…the-bulls/
I just read your article. I don’t know enough about the Bulls to really know what goes on there. My blinders are on the Celtics only. But something is very wrong there. They had a younger team last year and played so much better. They lost patience with Curry and Chandler and traded for Ben Wallace, who probably was not a good fit for that team. To me this goes to the GM. The Celtics went thru the trade rumors as well and seemed to have survived and not quit. I think Danny Ainge stays close to the players, but not to a point where he interferes. Doc is also good with the players and helps them thru hard times. Before the Garnet deal was completed, DA told Jefferson about it and I believe tried to tell Gomes, who couldn’t be reached. DWest was caught by surprise on his deal (as was Ray Allen). This is a business and deals need to be made and the players don’t need to be told about them. The C’s who were traded seem to bear no ill will toward the C’s and seemed prepared to go on with their lives and careers. I think the C’s, with new ownership and management respect their players. I don’t know about the Bulls, but there always seems to have been problems there. For awhile in Boston poor ownership and management did not treat their players with respect. To me, this might be DA’s biggest accomplishment, bringing back the principles of loyalty and respect that was created by Red Auerbach. As far as I’m concerned Doc is the coach of the Celtics until he decides he wants to leave. As to Skiles, I believe he was an assistant to DA at Phoenix and took over there when Danny resigned for family reasons so Danny, I’m sure knows him quite well. One more point: I don’t know about how the extensions for Deng and Gordon were handled (if this is even the problem). I don’t know if there were discussions or not and if so what $‘s were discussed. But, if they were willing to sign reasonable contracts, they are both very tradeable so Paxton maybe could have extended them and moved them. Compare this to the Tony Allen situation. He also was not extended, but I would bet there were talks between TA, his agent and Danny about this. TA is not taking time off from work because he wasn’t extended.
Link|Comments (1) By Marc J. Spears, Globe Staff December 23, 2007 06:43 PM
On how the Celtics winning has improved his life in Boston, Rivers joked: “I can self pump gas now. Before I would have to pay someone to do it so no one would shoot me.†…
Found this on the Globe site (Celtics): Maybe Skiles doesn’t have a sense of humor.
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