The Good And Bad Of Paul Pierce

you have just describe more than half the humans on planet earth with a dual personality but did a great job of describing Pierce on the court behaivor.
Without question Paul is at times emotional which could be good and bad depending on the situation, no problem for me most of the time.
My complaint with Pierce is his ego, he talks of himself as though he’s one of the great players in all of basketball history and that makes me look at him sideways.
Pierce is a good player most nights, he could be a better player if he didn’t play with as much ego and played with more determination that his team is more important than himself.
As you described his behavior when a game is close and he tries to put the load of winning upon his shoulders he usually loses that battle, because he refused to allow the team to work the ball for the best shot and insteads hogs the ball and forces the ball for a shot or a pass.
Now that Garnett and Ray Allen is on the team Pierce is going to learn something about humility, something he didn’t and couldn’t learn from Antoine Walker !
Pierce is also going to learn to play defense because Garnett and Posey plays serious defense and let me not forget Rondo and Tony Allen, while Ray Allen puts out constant effort all game long.
Pierce could end up have his best season of all because of the mindset of his other teammates ( Garnett, Allen, Posey, House, )
Pierce is best when he simply allows the ball to come to him withing the 15 – 20 ft range and he’s catching and shooting or cath and drive instead of dancing with the ball 25 out from the basket and nearly always turns the ball over.

i dont know about point gaurds or bigs, they are different and rating them against wings is tuff, but that aside pp is top 5 among wings, non-bigs and non points, only kobe is better, none of the wings rebound like him, none, he is the best rebounding none big in the league, unless you count marion but he plays the 4 and especially now with garnett getting any rebound available, forget that, he is hands down better than vince carter, d wayde, and even mcgrady, who might be a slightly better scorer, maybe, but from distance while pp gets down in the high % area far more often , and even lebron, only this year got better, only over the last 15 games, till then proved nothing, remember this guy, pp, is bigger and stronger that everybody else at his position, magette, deng, ginobli, etc., etc., he is a beast, like a power forward from 15 years ago, bigger than cornbread or magic. he is special and a top 10 player in my mind. kobe, duncan, nash, howard, kg, say c paul, and notwitzki (though i would disagree), then who, who else would you name above pp? even if i am forgetting 5 players that puts him top 15, this guy is the best c i have seen outside bird, and i am more happy for him than for us with this new fantasy team of ours. go paul pierce, go.
durant will be better, but he hasn’t done it yet. pp is the a special player, not only are we lucky to have him, but the game itself, the league, is seeing something unique and we should not underestimate that

You forget Lebron Lames

That 50 point half down in the Meadowlands was the worst thing that could have happened to him. He was in the zone that day (another Sunday afternoon game if I remember correctly), but has never really duplicated it. It made him think he was invincible and could beat even a quadruple team.

At least this year he’s trying to play defense. So long as I can see energy on defense, I can excuse the offensive lapses, so long as they are only occasional. Aside from the turnovers, it really burns me when he just loafs un the floor.

you’ve captured what has prevented Pierce from being regarded as a top 5 or top 10 player- his inconsistency and his immaturity. Like a lot of athletes who use anger and emotion to fuel their performance sometimes Paul is brilliant and sometimes he implodes. the one thing that I think is different with him this year is his committment to defense. He really seems to be trying there. But evil or bad paul is always lurking in the corner but the good news is that now Garnett and Allen are there to off set that. One could write a similar piece about Garnett and ask whether his intensity causes him to burn out by the playoffs? One of the raps on Garnett has always been that he can’t deliver in the post season. Right now I think the big 3 are tired. thankfully the bench is rounding into shape but I would still like to see Danny make a move for another player who can contribute. Tony Allen and Scal are pretty much useless at this point. Davis, House and Posey are the real deal

While I have been harsh on the guy, and deservedly so IMO, I think that the main reason that Paul has changed as a player isn’t K.G. or Ray, a better team, etc., it is Doc Rivers who changed him. Doc got Paul out of his routine of going 1 on 5, and got him to play a more efficient brand of basketball. When Doc first showed up here, Paul honestly hated the man’s guts. That much was obvious. Doc benched Paul when he didn’t follow the program, and he put constant pressure on him to change his ways behind the scenes. The result was a better player than what we saw before, even though the team was actually materially worse, talentwise, than it as before Doc showed up. In other words, Paul actually had more incentive than he previously had to continue with his ball hogging, but he actually turned the corner.

Doc, mind you, will still bench Paul when he needlessly reverts, as he did last week in the second quarter of one of the games. Paul was out there with the bench players, and was forcing like crazy. It was an increasingly rare “Bad Paul” sighting. Doc pulled Paul and put Ray out there, and things settled down quickly. The message was clear “Your teammates are doing what they are supposed to do, but you are not. You can have a seat now.” Paul needs this type of reminder, on occasion, to keep himself squared away. I think that he has learned enough to know that when Doc pulls him, it is because he deserved it. Doc certainly doesn’t have a quick trigger with Pierce, after all.

Good artice.

Paul has been getting after it defensively this year which is great to see. He can be pretty lazy coming up the floor but Tommy calls him the best offensive player the C’s have ever had and I think he means it.
At his position, I too struggle to name someone I’d rather have.
Now that he’s got a team around him, he’s going to have his best season yet. That still might only get them to the EC finals, but I’ll take it.

Jeff, you nailed Pierce’s grating tendencies. The end of game Paul Pierce iso’s did not work that often. But when they did the adrenoline was such that he wanted it every time. But the Charlotte pass to Ray (who couldn’t hit a barn up until the dagger)was this year’s better Paul Pierce. Let’s cut his past tendencies some slack because while he doesn’t have Ray’s smooth or KG’s passion, he is tough. TOUGH! And we need that. He has to be the NBA’s happiest player right now. He didn’t move, take a pay cut, lose stature, had to watch the ping-pong balls too and now is surrounded by a championship-potential nucleus.
For all you Scalabrine bashers, it looks like his minutes have been earned by Big Baby. House and Posey are big time contributors. Tony Allen an intriguing talent and Pollard for role playing. Rondo and Perk playing their roles well. Gotta love it!

Excellent article and insight. That is what makes this site the BEST on the internet. Those guys at espn.com could learn from you guys.

Let’s not get carried away here.

This “Evil Paul” comes out for 5-10 games out of the past 3 or 4 years.

Paul is a HOF player and has consistently put up great numbers playing multiple positions for the vast majority of his career in the toughest town to play in…in all of sports.

And we can’t blame Paul for being super talented and trying to win games on his own….you have to blame all the great players before him who’ve tried to carry teams on their backs throughout history. All Paul is trying to do is emulate the Jordan’s, Russell’s, Bird’s, Johnson’s, etc. to help his team win.

Problem is Paul has never had the co-stars or cast of players and coaches that these great ones had…..and thus you get more chances of natural mistakes and emotional frustrations….and of course losing games.

Bottomline is don’t forget that “Good” Paul has been through bad times (Pitino Era) and good times (O’brien Era) to horrific times (past 4 years) to now. From being an organizational draft pick, to not making the playoffs early on, to almost dying in a club, to bring the C’s back to the playoffs and relevancy, to being back as a laughing stock, to now…..he’s stuck with us and endure the numerous and retarded Trade talks and rumors for quite some time.

Paul is a great player and I’m extremely proud he’s a Celtic.

That is a great article and very well written. You really captured Paul Pierce. I akin his dual personality to artists with bipolar disorder. They have their ups and downs, has trouble maintaining an even keel, but are incredibly brilliant and creative moreso than most people. I think the emotion of KG and the steadiness of Allen compliment both of his sides and helps him maintain a balance that he didn’t have before. This accompanied by a coach who is understanding of him and has experience dealing with him and channeling his energy can only mean good things. I think KG is right we will see even more great things come from him this year. Here’s to hoping evil Pierce goes on vacation this year, lol.

At his position, I too struggle to name someone I’d rather have.

I don’t. Let’s start with LeBron James, and go from there to Kobe Bryant and TMac. And Caron Butler is right up there, although not quite the equal of Pierce.

Again, so long as he plays defense and doesn’t turn it over too much I can excuse his other flaws. This team doesn’t need his scoring nearly as much as in prior years.

Lebron, sure, who wouldn’t want Lebron.

Kobe? Please. No. The guys is a cancer, his attitude is worse than Pierce and his ego could never handle being with anyone who might challenge him for the spotlight. Is he more talented? Absolutley. Is he a better player? Sure, no question. Considering everything else “Kobe” that you have to deal with there is no way you want Bryant on your team.

TMac? Good, sure, but you want to talk about being soft on D, a crybaby in the lockerroom, and a guy who only relies on emotion to play . . .TMac is w-a-y worse than Pierce when it comes to being inconsistent and coping a primadonna attitude. Let’s not even touch the injury issues with TMac vs PP.

Butler is nowhere near Pierce. Butler is probably even more inconsistent and not nearly as capable as Paul of coming up big in the crunch.

I understand your frustration with Pierce, but your list of “players I’d want other than Pierce,” (other than Lebron) isn’t supporting your answer for addressing the problem (in either the real world or a fantasy one).

No player is perfect, they all have their warts, PP is no exception. The key is to find a way to win with those warts anyway, which is what the Celtics have been doing of late. It is possible that exposure to Garnett and Allen will rub off on PP and we will see a marked maturation in him as the next two-three seasons unfold.

Caron Butler has really come into his own this year. He’s averaging 23 ppg on 52% shooting and he’s a better defender and more athletic than Pierce. Butler is also shooting nearly 90% from the line, with 6.7 rebounds per game and 3.6 assists per game. All of these numbers are better than Pierce’s numbers except for the assists (Pierce is averaging 4.8), in large measure because Butler doesn’t have nearly so many guys to pass it to.

You don’t want Kobe because he’s a crybaby? As for me, so long as he scores 28 ppg and plays outstanding defense he can cry as much as he wants. Go over to RealGM and propose a trade of Kobe for Pierce straight up and see what everyone says.

I’ve seen a different Pierce this year, but you can’t expect him to lose all of his bad habits in a month of games.

I also have no doubt Garnett, RAllen & Posey will be all over him if he makes bonehead plays at crucial moments. He hasn’t been accountable to anyone but Doc in the past few years. That’s definitely changed this season. He has vets with a common goal to answer to now. They won’t stand for poor play.

I wouldn’t argue that Kobe is an all out better player than Pierce. As much as I like Lebron and think he’s great, I think he still has yet to surpass Kobe as the best player on the planet. In fact, if I were down 2pts with 3 sec left on the clock and had one guy to take the shot there is no doubt I would want him taking it.

However, Kobe is an awful teammate. He’s poison to his team and is one who will gladly, and publicly, point the finger at everyone else for the failures of his team (justified or not)and assume none of the repsonsibility himself. He will blame others for failure and not himself. He is one of the poorest examples of player leadership I have ever seen (his oncourt intensity and hustle is never in question, but his selfish play and cold condescention to his teammates does quite a bit to negatively balance his overall example). His character is of the type that you would want on your team (certainly not a Celtic’s squad).

You’ll get no argument that Kobe is by far a better player than PP, but would I put him on this team? No. Not for a moment.

Caron Butler, no, sorry. Good player, would nice to see him on the C’s, but not at the expense of Pierce.

When I watch Pierce and get frustrated with his sometimes bonehead play (especially his hold-the-ball-for-the-last-20secons-to-jack-it-up-from-15ft-at-the-last-second-crap-only-to-miss-badly)it does two things:
1. It breeds in me a sense of hope that eventually (esp on this team) he’s going to learn and you’ll see more Ray Allen taking that shot (which was cool to see Pierce hit Allen in Toronto rather than jack it up himself, because he was playing be reflex and not thinking about it). That one day we’re gonna see him do the unexpected and “hit Ker at the top of the key” (Jordan was w-a-y older than Pierce when he FINALLY learned that).
2. It makes me really appreciate that I got to watch Bird, Magic, Jordan, Doc, play all those times. As good as Pierce is individually, as great as Kobe and Lebron are at times, those other guys rarely, if ever, missed in the crunch or they simply made a great pass which was just as great. The media, the fans, are always looking for the next “great one” or the next “special player,” and to see exceptional athletes like PP, Kobe, and Lebron not measure up to them, well, only makes the memories of those guys even sweeter.

Caron Butler is a better player than Carmello, who is a chucker and doesn’t play much defense.

excellent piece and i think you nailed it. he’s very emotional and when he gets to being bad paul he needs to come out of the game. not as a punishment- but as a time out cool off time. i think doc is aware of his tendencies and has helped him but is not always quick on the trigger to cool him off.the one guy who has all the talent to be up at the top but his egomania and "psycho " and crappy attitude take it away is ron artest. he is one of the all time should have beens.

If we win a title it will be because Paul Pierce led us to it. Even on this talented team he’s the guy on the floor that everyone looks to in the key moments of a game.

A couple things about evil PP… like a manic-depressive, the trouble with eliminating the depression side is you lose the upside. PP is a small forward, and although the position of SF and SF have merged somewhat, I do think they are fairly distinct. Pierce has been able to play SG and even PF depending on who the opponents and teammates he had with him were, but that is more a testament to his overall skill level, like Duncan playing the 5. I would rank Lebron and only Lebron as definitively higher, and Lebron is prone to selfish play, bad attitude, lack of defense, etc. himself. My main gripe about Pierce is when Rondo is in the game he still helps out with getting the ball up court too much, but I think the same thing about Ray Allen too.

Also when comparing players with a substantial amount of NBA playing time, athleticism is a worthless factor; i.e. Caron Butler is more athletic than Pierce, doesn’t tell us anything that the other areas of comparison don’t. Butler’s athleticism might for example allow him to be a better defender or better slasher, but the athleticism by itself doesn’t tell us much. Also I believe players that depend on athleticism tend to age worse – but that is more of a vibe I’ve gotten from Hollinger’s analysis then something I feel 100% about.

So a future hall-of-fame player can be evil because he ball-hogs when he gets mad at losing for 4 years straight with 10 projects around him??? This isn’t the reason “other” people don’t consider him a top 15-20, its because when you are on a losing team you get slim exposure, and the celtics weren’t the “in” team. Nobody like yesterday’s girl, which was what paul pierce was for years after our ECF run. There’s no evil involved, he’s human.

So when is the “Good and Bad of Ray Allen” article coming out. I see the same problems with him, but people only complain about Paul. tsk tsk tsk.

I hope to god that Ray’s shooting slump is over soon, but he is a very good allaround player that helps in so many other ways. Its funny that he had a bit of a reputation as just a shooter because he can drive and finish all day, is a very good passer, can rebound, can go inside, midrange, get to the line, good first step, he can pretty much do it all and still spread the defense because they have to stick to him even when he is slumping because he could snap out at any time….. he has impressed me being much better allaroudn player than I thought he was (I knew he could play allaround so I wasnt naive, I knew he could do alot but I didnt know he could do it all at such a high level.)… he is a very good leader too, working the refs for his teammates and looking out for the youngsters. All 3 of our triplethreat are different personalities and styles of leadership that all complement each other and are very effective together, good job danny.

Anyways, I agree with most of what you say on Paul. Some is a bit exhadurated I believe, but the main point is absolutely right. Paul has been great this year though, its been almost all good paul. That is a great thing, the great veteran team has alot to do with that but also Paul maturing into such a wellrounded player and great person.

Yeah, so this is probably the worst shooting slump of Ray Allen’s career over these last 2 weeks (9 games). And we’re 14-2, but I sure hope to god he snaps out of it soon. He can still be effective getting to the line and the rim and all, but I just really hope it ends. I know it will end soon though, he’s a great player and a great shooter, he is open so its just a matter of time before he’s playing as great as he did in our first 5 games of the season when his shot is back……..

The best surprise of this season for me is how good Paul and Ray have been on defense. I’ve seen times where Paul’s defense was horrendous in the past, and I know that Ray had a reputation as a guy that could defend good when he really tries but usually is a bad defender…… so when Paul and Ray talked about stepping up their defense before the season I was skeptical. But they have both really backed up the talk and REALLY stepped up their defense and played great on that end of the floor. Both have done a great job on defense and really bought in, I guess not having to use all energy on offense does make a huge difference, as well as buying into the defensive system in order to be winning as much as possible…… that is my best surprise of this season though: Ray and Pauls great defense thus far. Both have displayed great effort and played good perimeter and team defense all year so far, especially Paul really locking down at times but Ray has done very good too. Go Celtics, great effort and great job! Theyre hungry and really want it, theyre a great team that we can all be proud of!

You guys underrate Carmelo by a long shot. That kid is the real deal, his defense is much improved as well as his passing and rebounding and he is one of the best pure scorers in the league as well as one of the most efficient players in the NBA 30 ppg on 50% shooting.

By the way, very great article.

Jeff…interesting concept (good/evil Paul)…brings the term conjecture to a whole new level….

Great SArticle. very accurate description of pierce. I sense our reaction to him as well. when all is said and done he is our man so lets keep him. thats all there is to that.

Jeff, some interesting commentary and nicely written, but you lose all credibility and I mean all credibility, when you talk about “top 25” in the league. To think that about Paul Pierce is beyond all rational comprehension. You are hereby a member of the Paul Pierce “underappreciation and undervaluation club”; you have joined a few “insightful” geniuses from the RealGM Celtics board, and I hope you all enjoy each other. Personally, I would rather eat salmonella-infected turkey or discourse with Oprah or Hillary Clinton. First of all, it is preposterous to compare wings with points and bigs. Secondly, with regard to wings, anyone who does not consider Paul a top wing in the game (in the same stratosphere as Lebron, Kobe, DWade, TMac and Melo) has the basketball insight of a squid. This man will become the fifth leading scorer in Celtic history this year and the third leading scorer in Celtic history after next year – and Tommy H and others have accurately called him the best pure “scorer” in celtic history (not player, scorer). He scores from 3, on the pullup J, on the postup, and finishes with either hand. He also rebounds better than anyone his size in the league. Now that he no longer has to carry a GARBAGE team (as he has for 9 years), and has KG and Ray, you are seeing his defensive and passing A game more and more. After the Celts go deep into the playoffs for the next few years, he is a LOCK for the HOF. Also, given your preposterously selective memories of “evil” Paul, please check to see which players in the NBA have hit the most gamewinning and gameicing “clutch” shots. Please do check. Answer: Paul Pierce, Ray Allen and Carmelo Anthony. Does Paul have flaws. Sure he does. In fact, take a hard look – so do Kobe and Lebron and DWade and TMac and AI. Has he matured emotionally? You bet your petunia he has. Does he have the need to drive into 3 and 4 people very much – rarely these days since the Celts finally gave him a real team to play with. Top 25 – yeah right, and we are going to land a spaceship on Saturn next week.

i recall an incidence involving Paul Pierce and Jamaal Tinsley of Pacers in a playoff game two years ago.

Celtics is leading by something like 1 to 2 points and has the ball. With the clock ticking down to the final seconds, a foul occurs involving both (i think Jamaal hits Paul’s head). cannot recall exactly, but Paul responds immedately to the hard foul with retaliation. after a long discussion by the ref, Paul is ejected with his second tech foul and the Pacers are rewarded with freeflow. anyway, the game is tied at the end of regulation but Celtics still win it in OT.

obviously Paul’s emotion has brought out his dark side, and he doesn’t seem know how to deal with it at that stage of his career. and i would say Jamaal’s “strategy” works out up to that point.

Love Paul, impossible to be objective. Anyway… he could loose 10 lbs most of the time, and occasionaly shows it late in games. One of the best in the clutch… Has the overdrive and can take over games on a Kobe/TMac level from time to time. Likeable, (ie way more than aforementioned & Lebron). Shows up Vince Carter regularly, and who doesn’t love seeing that?

He’s our guy.

I would perhaps and I emphasis perhaps take Lebron over Paul, other than that, no thanks.

Paul bleeds pure Green with not one ounce of tainted blood.

The great ones take the shot and accept the win or the loss. From a team point of view, I believe we need to become more creative from a coaching perspective in end of game situations and not rely so heavily on ISO’s. That would eliminate many bad Paul situations straight up.

Paul is tough, ultra tough, how many stab wounds was it? Paul is a scorer, a rebounder, a passer and a better defender than a lot of people give him credit for.

Paul is a Celtic and proud of it, for me, that is what it is all about and I am rooting for him every single game.

I also agree with Bankshot, in terms of the article I certainly see the good and bad Ray Allen. The similarity between the two players is simple, they both desparately want to win.

I wouldn’t swap either of them, especially the way they complement each others games.

Excellent, thought provoking article.

Go the Green !!!!

Cheers

Aussie