Tony Allen: Starting Point Guard

Kelly Dwyer’s column was garbage. Tony played a great game. If you’re actually going to nitpick and call turnovers that weren’t committed, what about the flop by Fisher that was called an offensive foul, or, like Donny Marshall correctly pointed out, the fancy play at the end of the game (which was a travel) that less than a week ago Jason Kidd did the exact same thing and didn’t get a travel call. Instead of one more assist and one less turnover, the refs showed their bias.

I’m not saying having Tony as the point guard is ideal, but he did a great job last night, and to try and downplay his performance is pretty weak.

Jeff, I’m with you on the kind of back-up point guard the Celtics shouldn’t bringing in. I keep scratching my head, and only come up with Orien Greene. But there’s got to other guys about whose names I don’t know.

I was expecting to read this morning about Tony’s great game last night. Therefore I’m surprised to read any complaints about Tony Allen this morning. He was really good last night. He took a step closer to returning to last year’s form. He handled the ball quite well. He clearly was dragging towards the end, but he played alot of minutes, especially given his lack of PT and continued rehabilitation of his knee. There is no one out there (FA) who would be a step up over Tony. Plus Tony is the guy who has a shot of containing Chauncey Billups. That is what our continued construction be aimed toward—beating the Pistons, and nothing else. It is pretty obvious today that no other team in the East will get in our way.

There are two reasons for not bringing in a PG right now.
1. Lack of quality options
2. The need to maintain roster flexibility in case (we of course hope not) a major player goes down. If that happens, Danny would need to try to re-structure the current team on the fly. i.e say KG goes down, instead of bringing in the best available stiff PF, maybe you work a deal for another good wing player and become a run, gun & press small ball team.

Tony Allen did just fine. Frankly, they didn’t miss Rondo at all. Allen may turn it over once in awhile, but he generates turnovers too, with steals and with his smothering defense that results in bad shots by the opposition.

A few more games like that from TA and Rondo will be the backup.

well a guy i thought is pretty solid and fits all of jeffs guidelines is keith mccleod. hes a decent shooter and passer. has backed up in utah under jerry sloan, has played with garnett. nice little player who can play 10min. i still think pruitt should get a look but of whats available right now which isnt much admittedly hes the guy i like.

Why do we need a Scott Pollard with less injury issues when we have Scott Pollard, who hasn’t really been injured all that much?

I agree with Brick that Rondo wasn’t missed at all. I think Tony might be able to take some of Rondo’s minutes when he’s being passive, which he does quite often. Tony isn’t afraid to take it to the hole, which Rondo needs to do more of, but seems to be afraid to do sometimes. I say play Tony 20 mpg and see what he can do consistently before we use the extra roster spot on another point guard. We need someone who can defend Billups and I can’t think of anyone out there that has a better chance at doing that than Tony.

Oh, and Kelly Dwyer really, really doesn’t have a clue. A while ago he wrote this:

More than any other team I’ve seen since then, and I’ve watched every game of that season several times, the 2007-08 Boston Celtics remind me of the 1995-96 Chicago Bulls. It doesn’t mean they’re going to win 73 (or 70, or even 60) games, or that they share the same unerring sense of focus (the singular focus is there, though the execution leaves a little to be desired) … but at the team’s best, they remind of that special Bulls team.

Only for stretches, though. Chicago’s 72-win crusaders made their mark in the third quarters of games, whereas this year’s Boston team tends to overplay its starters, dominate in the second quarter (like tonight, with a 35-13 advantage) and lose focus in the third (outscored 27 to 13). A good win for Boston on Wednesday, but they’ve a bit of work to do.

How about watching a Celtics game for a change, Kelly? I am pretty sure that “this year’s Boston team” is near the top of the league in third quarters won, and by quite high margin at that. Seriously.

Every time TA or Ed House bring the ball up against quality pressure, I cringe. Lindsey Hunter made Eddie look silly a couple of times. It’s a turnover waiting to happen. The Cs just need an experienced backup for Rondo that can handle pressue on the ball. Maybe a Chucky Atkins or Anthony Johnson type?

tony allen looked ok playing limited PG only because the big 3 plus posey were really shooting very well (making a combined 27 out of 51 shots—53FG%). i shudder to think how someone who many concede has low BBIQ has to make PG decisions when the team struggles shooting-wise.

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no kidding said:
 
  Jeff, I’m with you on the kind of back-up point guard the Celtics shouldn’t bringing in. I keep scratching my head, and only come up with Orien Greene. But there’s got to other guys about whose names I don’t know.

[quote]

Within Jeff’s original suggested parameters, here’s a few names that might fill the bill. All of the following salary info is courtesy of www.HoopsHype.com :

Tyronn Lue ($3.5M expiring contract)

Kevin Ollie ($3.4M expiring contract)

Chris Duhon ($3.25M expiring contract)

Steve Blake ($4.25M expiring contract)

Jason Hart ($2.3M with one more year after this season)

*Orien Greene ($770K — signed with a team in New Zealand last month)

I think Jeff is going overboard on this issue – and I can’t believe he went after TA after his excellent performance. Doc doesn’t seem to think you need a “pure” point at the NBA level and with this team I tend to agree with him.

Yes yes – a better handle out of TA in the backcourt would be great. However you end up giving alot up for that. TA is a dynamite defender – with the speed to stay with quick guys like Rondo can but the STRENGTH to play guys like Billups or Fisher or Deron Williams. Rondo lacks that and guys frankly beat the crap out of him on a regular basis. Most of the vet guys your talking about bringing in would likely suffer the same kinds of problems.

Likewise Eddie House brings dynamite shooting and some toughness to his spot as well. He isn’t as fast at TA or Rondo of course but he is tough enough to deal with guys like Fisher. You think any of our replacement PG prospects can shoot like House?

You have to look at flip side of things – what are you losing without TA and House on the court. I think your losing quite alot if you give their minutes to an aging GP or a Anthony Johnson. The ball-handling weakness can be a problem but that what we have Rondo for – as well as guys like PP and RA who can help him bring the ball up against pressure. You can’t pressure every guy all the time..

Pete

Is this a joke column?…Hah!…and who the hellespont is kelly Dwyer?…Doesn’t she write for Yahoo personals?…And what’s Doc mean by “limited?” Guess he means we could only use plays we could score on. I mean, We just strangled the Lakers in LA!!!

I suggest we lighten up a bit. Tony Allen, under the circumstances, did a reputable job at Point Guard last night and, it seems, some people flat out can’t stand the fact. Derek Fisher was a non-entity for the most part, less a Hail Mary 3 at the buzzer, he’s got 8 points…I’ll take it!…And who was keeping the ball from the passing lanes as Derek, whose been playing PG since Moses left Chicago, was held to 3 assists, one less than Allen? Oh yeah!, Maybe it was Perk as he lathered up Bynum and kept him from the Alley-oops!…just a little conjecture…

Top shelf teams exude chemistry…it’s not one, two, or three superstars that create it; It’s 5 guys on the floor at a time and 7 guys ready to join in. Our plastering of the Lakers in LA last night highlighted the fact that this Celtic team is fast developing a chemistry that just might blow up the Chem lab that is the NBA.

Yeah, I’m in no way arguing the value that TA brings defensively, or disputing House’s contributions (re: instant offense), and I’m not going to argue with the team’s success to this point. I may be getting ahead of myself here, but I think that in a 7-game series, the lack of ballhandling at backup PG is going to bite us. If Rondo gets in foul trouble (or even needs a blow) against say, a Detroit, we’re in trouble. A good on-the-ball defender will give House or TA fits. TA’s got a noticably HIGH dribble. It seems like a pickpocket’s dream… Didn’t he get it swiped on three consecutive possessions against… Toronto, maybe? I can’t remember…

One poster commented that we were limited by what we could do with TA at the point. This wasn’t because TA wasn’t thought to be able to do the job. He just doesn’t know the sets because he doesn’t usually play the position. Also, in a weird way, I think TA is becoming a better player BECAUSE of his injury. It is making him rely more on playing basketball as opposed to being an athletic high flyer. Tommy Heinsohn noted he has his quick first step back. Also his defense is about were it was. All that is missing is his explosiveness. He doesn’t need to dunk to score. He can get by his man, learn to protect the ball with his body and just lay it in. When he misses the easy layups I think his mind is telling him he NEEDS to dunk, but his body says otherwise. For some reason TA thinks he won’t be back till he can dunk. But a layup gets us two points just as well. Hopefully TA will get this. If he does, he is a great asset to the team right now.

As to adding a backup pg, I like Tyrone Lue. He’s a true pro, a good guy in the locker room, will accept the backup role, is liked by Doc and KG (I believe).

I’m not worried about TA at all. With him it’s going to be two steps forward and one step back all year. But by the end of the year he’ll be able to handle three positions reasonably well.

Bringing it up under pressure isn’t an individual ballhandling issue, it’s a team issue. You don’t beat traps by dribbling the ball. You pass out of the trap. So the real issue is how the team responds when House or TA is playing the point, and whether or not the pg makes the right pass, and cut to where he’s supposed to cut to maintain proper court spacing and be in a position to receive a return pass.

Unlike Rondo, TA has the size and strength to penetrate and finish against taller defenders, so he doesn’t have to tricky dribble along the baseline and look to dish it out to a jump shooter. That’s not TA’s game.

Well, I have no doubt that Jason Kidd is on the market if the Celtics want someone like that and are willing to pay the price.

I would have no problem trading Scalabrine for Kevin Ollie, or signing Keith Macleod. In fact, I would have no trouble trading Scalabrine for anyone or anything. But I would not use either one of those veteran backups unless Tony Allen proves he can’t do the job, because except for the ability to dribble in traffic, Tony Allen is a vastly superior player. He creates significant matchup problems for the other team when he plays point guard, because except for Kidd and Billups, there isn’t a single pg in the league who can keep TA from getting to the rim, at least not without weakside help. And except for Kidd, I can’t think of a pg in the league who is a better all-around defender than TA.

Jeff, every action has an equal reaction. Maybe not so good. Bringing in another PG means less mins for T.Allen or E. House and both are leading members of the forward momentum this team is exhibiting. You should have brought this up a couple nights ago when Tony looked lost at times, smacking his head etc. But props where props are due. He was excellent last night. He got the most “Are you kidding me’s” from the Wildblue family than anyone else last night. So, he isn’t a classic PG? Nor is Eddie House. But c’mon, yours is misplaced paranoia based on last night’s game. The starting PG can’t go….the paranoid’s reality….and what happens? Tony was terrific. Eddie House works his ass off.
You obviously touched a nerve and most of us veteran bloggers aren’t with you on this one.

If we have to go with Tony Allen as a backup the rest of the way, I have no problem with.

When the Celtics played the Pistons and got burned with the pressing defense on House, I don’t see that happening again with the adjustments that I’m sure will be made.

In Pierce and Ray Allen we have two excellent ballhandlers who can help break the press so that we can even end up with easy scoring opportunities.

The Celts are a very good passing team who clearly were unprepared for the pressing defense. Quick passing and less dribbling with beat the press everytime……I hope Detroit tries it again because I have no doubt that the Celts will make that strategy backfire.

Hey! This is a wondrous time!…I can’t ever remember having this much fun with my clothes on…Hah!…(must be the influence of those Singles Sites). Anyway, It’s the best LA win since the 80s.

“Tick-a-tick-a timin’”…that’s the name of the game, and to suggest that Tony just might not be the second coming of Bob Cousy on this particular day is akin to suggesting that Paul Pierce is an Egomaniac…Ho, Ho, Heaven forbid! Not on this day he isn’t…

I’ve even gone so far as to envision the box score of the next Pistons game on the 5th: Chauncey Billups, 8 points, all from the foul line as Tony “Meadowlark” Allen uses Billups’ forehead as a springboard in aborting each of his attempted Js…It’s strictly playtime.

And how about Doc’s bobble-heading about feverishly as he vainly attempted to explain why Tony’s “Roman Gabriel” impersonation with that 60 yard cross-court looping pass was perhaps not the best decision for an NBA Point Guard. My, my, my…

So, now we’ve reached the end of the year and a New Year is upon us. 2007 has been, to say the least, tumultuous. What each of us, as Celtics fans, is thinking presently was unimaginable 12 months ago. “When pigs fly” was a quote used more than a few times last year…Well, those oinking bundles of pulchritude have spread wings and, as 2008 descends upon us, all is forgiven and each of the members of our beloved Celtics is complete and perfect unto themselves…That is, at least for today, of course.

Happy New Year, Jeff…Happy New Year, Everyone…

Okay, so apparently the consensus is, we’re all set at the point guard position. And we’ll hear few complaints if the Celtics get knocked of the playoffs when Lindsey Hunter, or someone similar, exploits our supposed back-up ball-handlers.

A kid I know, who played point guard in college, had two favorite sayings. First, everyone’s a point guard, until the pressure comes. And secondly, there’s always a coach who thinks he doesn’t need a point guard – he just needs his players to start properly breaking the press with their passing.

Excuse me? Both Derek Fisher and Jordan Farmar are good defensive players. That’s a major reason why the Lakers were 18-10 going into last night’s game.

Geez, the Celtics are 25-3, on pace to break the all-time league record for victories. Eddie House (not TA)had a couple of turnovers against Lindsay Hunter and now the sky is falling?

Come playoff time, the big issues will be fatigue or injury among the big three, and Rivers’ ability to make adjustments within games and from game to game. Those issues will determine how far they go in the playoffs, not some midseason acquisition of a player like Kevin Ollie or Gary Payton.

tony played great last night, no doubt about it. no one is saying anything about the combo-point we already have and who should have been spotted more, i.e. pruitt. 42 mins was too much for tony and i was worrying about getting his legs tired and stressing the knee. feed a few safe mins for pru. i would like a backup pg as jeff describes, but i do worry how doc would use him.

Here’s my final word. When you’re trying to make do with an inadequate point guard, it isn’t just the turnovers that kill you. There’s the additional time lost on the shot clock, getting the ball across half-court and into the offense. There’s the problem of not getting things started in quite the right spot. Spacing gets ruined because guys are worried about being too far away. The timing and placement of picks becomes more critical. Then there’s the added pressure and distractions to the players and coaches, both during the games and in practice, addressing the help that needs to be given to the weak point guard. Focus gets overly shifted from the front court to the back. And of course, when things break down, there isn’t that one guy who comes ‘gets’ the ball and puts things back in order. Many of the things a good point guard does just aren’t recognized by a lot of fans.

Here’s my final word: they scored 110 points against a good team with Allen at the point. They had no trouble getting into their offense.

It remains to be seen if Tony can do it consistently. But last night he was fine— as good or better than Rondo in any game on the road trip.

I hate to say this..I agree with Jeff ( I’m sure therapy is soon to follow)..we do need a veteran backup PG..My guess is that Danny is waiting for the trade deadline, in hopes that some real contributor shakes out…it is possible that DA created a roster space this early to signal the team that he intends to add another player with team chemistry in mind?…in other words give the players time to mentally adjust to a new player coming on board.

The orginal plan back in the summer was to have tony Allen as backup point guard. I am glad to see the plan in action. tony also played some point his first year. Jeff the old saying is a clock that don’t run is right at least twice a day so your time will come to be right. but we don’t need a backup point guard. i would put my money on two big men tom help K G and perkins in case pollard get hurt again. big baby is good but not relly a big(tall) man. that is where we need to fill holes.

Unless you consider Rondo injury prone (I don’t)there aren’t many occasions where TA is going to start at the point. TA played pretty well under the circumstances. He will be used as
a band aid at the point and in special situations vs the larger
PGs.

I think there is too much focus by us on the pg position. For those who remember, DJ and DA were not point guards. I don’t think any pg’s on this team have the abilities of DJ or DA, but others on the team do. Forget about getting the ball up court. It can be done by passing or other ways. Larry Bird was the point forward, he controlled the offense. KG and PP and RA are all capable of doing this (am not comparing to Bird who was one in many lifetimes). With that said anything that can be done to make this team better should be done, and I think will be, if fiscally responsible.