Griz Win, Celts Lose

al was on fire in the first half. i do not understand why they seemed determined to go away from him in the third.

Just pathetic. pathetic.

yea al goes 7 for 8 in the first half . . .he takes one shot the rest of the way . . ONE shot . .ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh this is painful

Paul had a bad game. He’s still not 100% and still doesn’t have his lift back.

This game is the perfect example of why we need a real point guard. West is not one, which makes Paul do all the creating causing him to turn it over a lot. Lot of bad passes. Rondo and Telfair are not ready, if they ever will be. We need a vet point guard in the worst way. A point guard MUST be addressed this offseason. Go after Kidd, Billups or Miller.

just got back from the Staples Center – had to have a drink afterward (my first JaegerBomb – tasty). Up until the last couple of minutes of the 2nd quarter, I thought we might see another Kobe/Pierce shootout like last year (when the Celtics beat the Lakers in LA). Alas, Doc’s team got smoked before the halftime buzzer and never recovered in the third. What’s most embarrassing is how in my full Celtics regalia I earned absolutely zero scorn or derision (imagine if in the 80s I was at the Forum in my C’s Starter Jacket!); I saw only pity in the Lakers fans eyes.

If we could pry Miller away, I’d say he would be a fine addition to our team. He’s not as good as Kidd, but he’s also not as old or as expensive. He’s not as good defensively as Billups, but he’ll likely come cheaper and is probably a better PG assist wise. Bibby is overrated.

Now, if we could add Miller [or another quality PG] and Oden/Durant and another nice vet, we could have something cooking here. But, that’s a tall order.

â€Å"Iâ€â"¢m going to play Leon a lot more .. he instigates. Heâ€â"¢s physical I could care less about the other stuff he doesnâ€â"¢t do.”

I agree, but jeez, here’s another Doc Rivers Epiphiny for you! They are a looooong time coming (Al’s been needing help in the paint since forever while Dr Epiphiny plays 3 guards)

[PPs] game is the perfect example of why we need a real point guard. Paul does all the creating causing him to turn it over a lot."

spot on. PP personally took the C’s out at the end of the 2nd.

Basketball is an outside-inside game. Jefferson was having his way in the first half but part of the Laker’s defensive reaction was to shut Jefferson down. When that happens it’s up to us to cash in on the outside.

That West and Pierce had an off shooting night didn’t help to counter the Laker’s inside congestion. A well balanced offense needs an outside and inside response to keep defenses honest. An effective penetrating PG who’s also a scoring threat can also disrupt inside defenses. Alas, we’re lacking that PG.

Thus, in retrospect, it’s simplistic to assume that the Celtics merely “forgot” about Jefferson inside but rather that the Lakers didn’t.

This literally is like 96-97 all over again- us and the Griz with the two worst records. Although that year they were ineligible for the first pick

Doc is the perfect man to coach this team, right now. Memphis wins, Boston loses. Losing sucks, but this enhances our chance to get Oden, so no one should be too downcast about it.

Even better news is that most of the teams above us have slowly been pulling away from us. It’s possible in the next few weeks that the Celts could all but have one of the 2 worst records sewn up.

As for the game, why does Doc hate his younger players? AlJ kept the Celts in the game for most of the first half, but then gets one shot in the final 2 1/2 quarters?

Even if we do get Oden/Durant, this team desparately needs a coach and a point guard.

I must agree – point guard and coach need to be addressed over the summer months. Meanwhile, the Celtics defense is simply non-existent. It doesn’t matter if you have less talent than your opponents, you can still play defense. While we may question Doc Rivers’ choice of rotations or playing times, the one issue that should get him fired is the team’s lack of committment to playing defense.

Don’t blame West for Pierce’s crappy play. You might as well blame West for the war in Iraq. Pierce rarely moves without the ball, and West gets him the ball where Pierce is supposed to get it as this offense has been designed.

But I’m not going to give myself carpal tunnel syndrome analyzing a team that has packed it in. They gave up 120 points. That’s all you need to know.

There’s a reason Rondo lasted until #21. He can’t shoot a lick!! I’m sure he will improve but how much is the question and will it be enough for us to compete. He needs to upgrade his offensive game big time! He gets tentative out there because he knows he can’t hit the broadside of a barn.

What the hell happened to Paul Pierce? He used to be a great player. The cavalry was coming, remember?

In the first quarter he stood around and watched Kobe drain threes.

In the second quarter he decided to be more proactive and turn the ball over alot, putting the game effectively out of reach.

In the third quarter his only memorable contribution was a technical foul.

But as usual he saved his best overall performance for the 4th quarter. That scowl from the bench was classic.

Funny thing is, I’d agree with just about anyone on anything right now…I’m strictly “rope-a-doping”…The loser’s mentality that the C’s are exhibiting scarily diminishes Miss “PingPong Galore’s” titillating measurements. This is the worst season I can remember as a C’s fan: A boatload of agony with nary a sliver of ecstacy: hell, nary a sliver of dignity…left…alive.

Put on your seat belt, it’s not going to get any better this year.

Regarding Rondo’s learning to shoot: I’m pretty sure that Ben Wallace and Shaq would like to be better foul shooters and have been coached and have practiced. Still, they shoot about the same pct as Rajon from the foul line. I think that is a very bad sign. >:(

First game of the season that I quit on the team and went to bed 3 minutes into the 3d.

doc rivers has to go!!!!!
Big Al isnt being used to his fullest and doc has this 16 time
NBA champion team, starting Brian Scalibrine at center. at center.
The rookie Leon Powe would be a much better choice , but couold you imagine running an nba team and having scali as your center. I would be down in the D league signing someone to a 10 day contract if i knew that scali was my answer

Also… so rondo had a bad shooting game, big whoopie.
he is a rookie with Jason kidd like stats when he starts
i guess im able to overlook his shooting deficiencies as he has so many more strengths and we have so many scorers (green, sczerbiak, pp and even West.

I think Rondo is our point guard of the future with West at the 2 guard and point when Rondo is resting. Unfortunately, the future will not begin until Doc is fired.

at least GG had a nice game.. even though it was against 2nd tier competiton.. but man.. love that jump shot of his.. and drove hard to the hoop several times.. and got rewarded for it.. let it fly Gerald.. let it fly!! please never ever trade the 4 finger pure shooter.. and dunker

Jeff=slacker

Here’s why we need to trade Pierce — for his own good. I think Phil Jackson hit the nail on the head:
“That’s one of our problems in this game,” Jackson said. “We burn out players that are very talented when we place them around kids that can’t [play the way they need to]. It looked like Paul was really bothered in Sacramento. He’s fighting uphill. It’s Sisyphus. You can only push the rock up so many times.”

I don’t blame PP for Kobe’s explosion in the first quarter last night. Kobe was making some high degree of difficulty shots. Your only hope would be to deny him the ball but Pierce isn’t quick enough for that. Tony Allen used to be.

I know it was a blow out but I put this game entirely on Doc. He fails to recognize what’s happening out there. It started with Kobe. Why put Paul on him? If he gets the ball, he’s going to score no matter who is guarding him so why not let him embarass Scalabrine. At least Scalabrine might get indignant and hurt him.

Second, at the end of the second half, the Lakers decided to put more pressure on the ball. Why not put Rondo in there who loves dribbling thru pressure? Instead, he leaves West in there who does NOT like to handle the ball under pressure. If there was a time to go small, that was it. Move Delonte over to the SG and let Rondo deal with the pressure D. Then, they came out of the locker room flat and there were no time outs until they were down by 20.

Oh and last but not least, they haven’t figured out how to play defense in 3 years! Fire Doc now! This is pathetic. It’s amazing how far this ownership group is willing to let things slide just to try and save face. I almost masochistically hope they don’t fire doc, get oden in the draft, and then still not know how to play basketball next season.

kids are ok said:
  Regarding Rondo’s learning to shoot: I’m pretty sure that Ben Wallace and Shaq would like to be better foul shooters and have been coached and have practiced. Still, they shoot about the same pct as Rajon from the foul line. I think that is a very bad sign

—————————————————————————————————

There are examples of other players that were bad shooters that became very good shooters through a lot of practice.

In 00-01 Bruce Bowen was .363 fg% and .336 three point percentage in Miami

Once he got to San Antonio in 02-03 he shot .466 fg% and .441 from behind the arc. Those numbers compare to someone like Kobe. I know its less shots but still.

What Bowen did was improve through dedication and practice. He made himself into a good shooter. He also probably had a good shooting coach. I really think Rondo can do the same thing.

They have to hire Dana Barros to coach him on shooting this offseason. I believe he is going to really be a special player for us. Provided he can put in the hard work to get there

After the game Doc announced that Powe was going to see more action.
40 or so games ago after Powe grabbed 12 boards in 16 minutes (a season’s work for the winner of the Walter McCarty Little Big Man Award, that is Veal),Doc babbled the same, and immediately exiled Powe to purdah. Expect more of the same. Even if we do get Oden, he will sit for the first two years until he can demonstrate in practice that he has mastered Doc’s intricate defense(?!).

Back in the day… when we had a team that was playing like this the coach pulled anyone who wasn’t playing hard defense and inserted those who were. If I am Doc this is who plays:

Powe
Scal
Perk
Gomes
West
Rondo

The rest sit until they decide they want to play both ends of the floor. You show some heart and hustle and a desire to play defense and you get back on the floor. Pierce included. Every one of these guys is athletic enough to play solid defense if they want to. (Scal is the perfect example) Offense is talent and defense is desire…

Ok, so Jefferson 11 rebounds per game isnt good enough for you?

His points and rebounds aren’t the problem. He can’t have 23 and 17 like he did against Phoenix but give up 32 and 12 to Stoudemire. Pierce averages 26 but look who they had guarding Kobe in the 1st half… That last 3 minutes of the first half shows the whole problem. Good teams turn up the heat defensively when it is close and blow open a game. Bad teams try to score their way back into a game.

We need a guy to play the 2/3 that is a defensive specialist to shut down their “Kobe” or “Wade” or “Lebron” and that sets the tone for the rest of the guys. Perk is hurt now and not his full self, but remember how he set the tone inside that paint. If Jefferson wants to be the All Star that he is capable of he has to do the same.

STILLACELTSFAN – Scal is one of the few bigs we have that can go and and play tough against their 4. He may not be as althletic as the others but he is at least giving it full effort and is a smart player. He is one of the few that tries to run the play instead of just standing there. He can pass and rebound and hit an open jumper. He is shooting 45% from the floor overall and 46% from three point land. I bet you don’t have a problem with Gerald taking the open jumper or three and his numbers aren’t as good… He is 6th on the team in overall % and 1st in three point %. Team player and doesn’t bad mouth the fans when they boo him needlessly. Scal is not even close to this teams problem.

Perk is a defensive specialist. Nothing more. He blocks as many shots as Big Al in 12 less minutes, and would be averaging about 8 1/2 boards with the same minutes . Not too shabby. Last year when he was healthier he was averaging 6 boards in under 20 minutes which would put him over Al’s #‘s. (5 boards in 18 min a game last year) Even though it is ugly, his field goal percentage was better than Al’s last year as well. Perk isn’t ever going to be a star, but I’d take his heart and trade it with anyone on the teams anyday…

On that note though, that lineup would mean we lose more games though but maybe it would send a message to our “stars” that they aren’t that great after all. Kobe showed Pierce last night what a real all star looks like. (I hate him though…)

Re BoundingRounder, my earlier comment about your writing style was meant to be a COMPLIMENT. Evidently it was misinterpreted as a slur and deleted. Please excuse my clumsy back-handed compliment.

For the record, I loved your picturesque and provocative style of writing. Very few people can tell a story or summarize an event in such an entertaining manner. Please consider sharing your colorful take on the Celtic’s decline/resurrection in the future. You obviously have a gift for writing!

A couple things. Yes Al is not a great defender (as we saw last night when he left his feet about a thousand times), but hes just as good, if not better than most of the post players the Cs have right now. He is also leading this team in blocks, although that may be inflated because he is usually the only quality big guy in there. But cut him some slack because he is playing outta position and against bigger guys than he would be playing against if he were playing PF.

Second, one of the simplest sayings in basketball is that you cant be a good defensive team if you cant rebound. In order to complete a great defensive possession, the team needs to be able to rebound the basketball…and after Al, there really isnt any great rebounders. Well Pierce is, but hes a 6-6 guard, Gomes is undersized, and Perk is too slow with the injury.

Problem is that Jefferson cannot play the 4 spot defensively!!

UCN33 – Agreed on the rebounding part. I put Jefferson on the “borderline” are due to that end, but for a short term until they got the message they wouldn’t be seeing the minutes they are right now.

One thought I had last night for the first time in watching Green… Trade Pierce this summer. We are going nowhere. He deserves a chance at a title or at least a fresh start. Gerald is right on the verge of completely replacing him in ability. (I watched his defense hard last night and it appears he is at least trying. The only difference in his game and Pierces right now IMO is he doesn’t get to the foul line as much and a couple less rebounds.) If he had all of Pierce’s shots and minutes I am not sure you wouldn’t see a huge dropoff. (We’re 1-6 since Pierce came back so it isn’t obviously a huge benefit)
We could likely get a pretty good player and a great pick out of him…