What If We Trade Pierce?

I wouldn’t be opposed to it!

As I stated before, my feeling is that Paul hasn’t learned to utilize his teammates and trust them as such.

I still see him going 1 on 1 and 1 on 3 against teams instead of dishing it out and having faith in his teammates.

Listening to Bird over the weekend talk about D.J. you realize what teamwork is and how they fed off one another.

Even Kobe has stated recently that Paul needs to utilize his teammates and have faith in what they can do.

Right now it’s painful and he has to understand that it’s part of the learning process, as he realized when he came into the league as a young player himself.

If we trade Paul, the first thing I’d look at is bringing in an established Point Guard, someone who can control the floor.

See this is what Paul can’t do right now. If many of you listened to Bird talk about D.J. over the weekend. He mentioned how D.J. would tell Bird to have McHale set picks otherwise he wouldn’t be getting the ball. Well right now we have no one like that who can control the tempo of a game and know who to get the ball to.

Maybe we need to bring a guard in here without trading Paul, but that’s what I think this team needs at the moment more than anything.

Pierce and KG are almost star crossed. They are both the same age and both been stuck with incompetant franchises that can’t put a good player with them. They would fit perfectly together as players. At some point, either KG needs to go to Boston or Pierce needs to go to Minnisota.

What about Pierce to Pheonix? If Pheonix does not win the title this year, how do they keep the team as is? Pheonix has Atlanta’s pick plus Shawn Marrion. If you put Pierce with Amare Staudamire and Steve Nash, Pheonix would be pretty scary.

players become numb to loosing. we very well may be beating the heart out of some of our young talent right now. two or three more years of this and none of these guys will be able to turn it around while in a C’s uniform.

if we trade pierce it would have to be for a special player, a point guard (as ancient red sugested) who just demands the best from his teammates. (the sam cassel effect)

i think adding a high test point to the current mix would do wonders.
and if ainge doesn’t go get one no draftee is going to put us over the top.

Realistically, Phoenix is not going to deal thier starting PF for Pierce alone. Let alone adding a draft pick to it. If there were a draft pick added it would not be from thier side.

The Lakers wouldn’t give up Bynum for a backcourt guy, why would they give him up for a wing?

If the Bulls wouldn’t deal Deng for Gasol, they certianly won’t give him up for Pierce.

Livingston is the one that might be attainable simply because he hasn’t lived up to expectations, but getting him and Maggette for Pierce is an outside shot at best.

Closer to actual value will be what the Sixers got for Iverson.

Another argument for trading Pierce is his age and the heavy minutes he has logged. Let’s not forget the toll playing hurt and playing heavy minutes took on both Bird and Mc Hale as they approached thirty years old . Paul has been a warrior who has played through injuries in his career.

Have to disagree a bit with Ancient Red as to PP utilizing his teamates. First of all I don’t care what Kobe says. Pierce has constantly said that he doesn’t want his teammates deferring to him. I think PP is forced to play the way he does. When he picks up a triple team I’m sure he’s looking for someone to pass to, especially now when he knows he can’t get a good shot off because of his conditioning problem. I think it’s not so much Pierce not trusting his teammates, but his teammates not positioning themselves to receive passes when PP is in this situation. If anything PP is forcing passes into Jefferson when he really shouldn’t be. I do agree
that we need a first-rate playmaking point guard. I’ve lost a little faith in Rondo lately, but I think players are now playing individually to develop their own games. This might not be so bad for the rest of this season, but it can’t carry over to next. As to trading PP, no way. There is no one we could realistically get to replace him. I totally agree with Ancient Red’s last paragraph, keep PP and get a first rate pg, even if it’s short-term.

Barring some miracle, it will be 5 more years of mediocrity followed by yet another rebuilding if they elect to keep Pierce. Mark my words. At this point it’s beyond discussing what they might get for him. As with Iverson in Philly, it has reached the point of addition by subtraction.

It just isn’t working.

The team owe’s it to itself to go into the offseason and see where we end up in the draft.This is not a one horse team anymore we have to factor in Jefferson into the equation.Can we get better trading Pierce at this time.My feeling is no.Especially if we are only going to get at best .60 cents on the dollar.Again add a draft pick,Make a trade for a solid on/off court vet.And sign a mid level free agent.Add a coach who can coach.All of that plus a healthier more experienced team.That should be the foundation to a very good team over the next 5/7 years

Let’s say the Celtics don’t win the lottery. It is pretty clear that they will have the worst record in the league so they will be no worse than fourth. If they get totally hosed and end up fourth, what to do? They will have the fourth pick in a very good draft. That will be the rights probably to Yakim Noah or the PF from North Carolina. They will also have an $11 million expiring contract. In addition, they will have Gomes, West, and Green all young, low paid rotation players.

I don’t see how they can trade Jefferson. The team suffered through three years of his development. He is finally turning into a 18 to 20 ppg and 11 rpg guy. They should be able to sign him to a decent priced extension this summer. To trade him for Gasol making max money would be crazy.

Ainge ought to be able to turn the pick and the young players and Theo’s contract into a decent vet to go with Pierce and Jefferson. If he can’t do that, he is just the great white Isiah and needs to go.

The bottomline is that I didn’t see one proposed deal in the off season that was both realistic and gave the Celtics value for Pierce. The whole point of trading Pierce last summer was to tank the season and rebuild with the draft. Well, the Celtics thanks to Pierce’s injury tanked the season anyway and the get to keep Pierce to boot. I really think Simmons is full of it with his “they should have traded Pierce last summer” speal. BS. Trade him for whom? See what happens in the lottery and package the pick with Theo and anyone not named Jefferson in the off season if it is not a top two pick.

You are only going to get 50 cents on the dollar for Pierce. Live with it. In two years it will be 25 cents on the dollar.

There is little foundation for a good team here. That’s just PR crap. They are a 20 win team WITH Pierce. Jefferson is healthy, Green is healthy, West is healthy and Pierce is healthy (although he’s out of shape). They set a franchise record for consecutive losses and are about to set a franchise record for consecutive road losses.

They need to add a forward who can defend, a blue chip big man and possibly a point guard (unless West or Rondo gets better in a hurry). They desperately need a new coach, and if Tony Allen doesn’t come back 100% from his ACL tear, they also need a big guard who can defend. If they accomplish all four of those things they might be a .500 team in two years. By then Pierce will be two years older with alot more mileage. That’s two more years of taking 20-25 shots a game, shots that Jefferson and Green ought to be taking.

Pierce will be making $16,360,095, $18,077,903, $19,795,712 and $21,513,521 over the next four years. Meanwhile the useless Szczerbiak will be making $12,000,000 in 2007/08 and $13,000,000 in 2008/09. Those two players alone eat up 60% of their cap, so you can forget about signing free agents in the forseeable future. Plus, they have to extend Jefferson, West and Tony Allen by 2008 or risk losing them for nothing in free agency. That will eat up all of the dollars that they save when Ratliff’s and Szczerbiak’s deals expire— and then some.

So they only way those needs get filled is via the draft, which means waiting for two more groups of young players to develop and learn the ropes in the NBA.

This team is where Toronto was before they traded Vince Carter. How much worse can it get before people stop believing the pathetic hype being spewed by management? When Heinsohn starts talking I just put the volume on mute because I can’t listen any more. Even he has stopped believing in what he is saying.

If they don’t elect to keep Pierce, expect 5 more years of mediocrity. What could we possibly replace him with that would make this team better unless some other GM makes a mistake OR we get insanely lucky with some born again prospect? As long as Pierce is producing the numbers he normally does you hold onto him and hope you can find pieces to complement his play.

I wonder how many of us were in favor of dealing Larry when his production declined? Pierce is still putting up great numbers and we want to deal him? wtf?

First, let’s change the thing that’s clearly not working which is the coaching and go from there.

“That’s two more years of taking 20-25 shots a game, shots that Jefferson and Green ought to be taking.”

I don’t buy that at all. If Jefferson had a takeover the game offensive game he would have done it when Pierce was out. Jefferson looks better and his numbers are up since Pierce got back. Jefferson is a good player as long as there is someone else to draw a double team and take the heat off of him.

The Celtics need two legitimate first option players. Trading Pierce for a bunch of spare parts, which is what you will get right now, doesnt’ get them any closer to that. Who cares about his salary, the guy earns it. What is the point of having salary cap room if not to use it? Gee Brick, maybe the Celtics could trade the entire team and just field D-league players at league minimum. They would have lots of cap room then. Granted, the team wouldn’t be much worse, but its not my money and I don’t think the ownership should get off that cheap.

Further, when you get all of this salary cap money, who are you going to sign? If you do sign an all-star but gave up Pierce, you are right back where you started, one good player and a bunch of spare parts. Keep, Pierce and move the pick and the young players for a vet.

“This team is where Toronto was before they traded Vince Carter.”

How did moving Carter make them anything but worse? Further, they are not in the same situation, Carter was tanking it to get out. Pierce is not taking it and won’t. He is not a slug like Carter is.

Lastly, the Celtics don’t ahve to sign Jefferson West and Allen by 2008 if they trade one or two of them.

This team isn’t mediocre. It’s BAD. It can only aspire to mediocrity.

The question is whether or not, in three years, it will be a mediocre team on the rise, or a mediocre team in decline that is facing the prospect of yet another rebuilding.

And yes, I was completely in favor of trading Parish and McHale in 1992. At that point Bird had already announced hsi retirement.

And those were 50 win teams. What we have now is a 20 win team.

“Pierce will be making $16,360,095, $18,077,903, $19,795,712 and $21,513,521 over the next four years. Meanwhile the useless Szczerbiak will be making $12,000,000 in 2007/08 and $13,000,000 in 2008/09. Those two players alone eat up 60% of their cap, so you can forget about signing free agents in the forseeable future”

So your sollution Brick is the trade the player in that equation who actually earns his money and keep the player, Wally, who doesn’t? Brilliant!!

What if we trade our pick for KG? ..assuming you can resign him and AL. You end up with AJ,KG,PP, as your core….you also get to keep GG and probably DWest and RRondo.
..I Know, I know….GOden or KDurant are the future, but think about it. Ajefferson is also a future star, only 22 and a proven rebounder/scorer in the league. No “learning curve” to worry about and most importantly, no unfullfilled “upside” to worry about(we already have GG on that front)….

…just think about it….

Jeff, are you going to block me out of the blog after such a sacriledged comment?…. ;)

Wally is untradeable, JohnK, and you perfectly well know it. You’d have to give up a first round pick just to get another team to take him. We’re stuck with Zoolander, absolutely stuck. Deal with it.

So JohnK, you plan is to build around Pierce and Szczerbiak and instead of keeping (and developing) our good young players, we should trade at least some of them away so that we don’t have to pay them? Is that what you are saying?

And where does that leave us in 5 years? And how will you feel when, for example, Gerald Green becomes the next Joe Johnson and is tearing up the league playing for a contender?

Well, JohnK, you can have a big party when Pierce breaks the all-time Celtics scoring record, or Tom Van Arsdale’s record for the most consecutive games played without a playoff appearance. Please don’t bother sending me an invitation.

The Cs have won 44% of their games since drafting Pierce. That works out to a 36-46 season’s record.

I would support a Pierce trade if it resulted in a consistent 500 club. Something like Deng, Sefalosha and an expiring contract would have been OK with me. Now that the trading deadline has passed, it might be difficult to match up moneywise in a trade with the Bulls.

My feeling is that if the team gets lucky on May 22 and can pick Oden or Durant, keep Pierce. If not, move him for two players, where at least one and possibly both are just undr all star level, and truly rebuild.

My above comment originally said (plus) 500, but I used symbols and they didn’t appear in my text.

 I think it is in the best long term interest to trade him event if we do not get a lot in return. With him we aspire to at best mediocrity. At some point the Celtics needed to bottom out. We have been medoicre for how many years now. PP has not gotten us to far in the playoffs 1 ECF which we lost.
 If we keep picking in the middle of the first round we will continue to be mediocre. It is time to be bad so in the future we can be good. I do not like looking at the Celtics as laughing stocks of the NBA. That is what this franchise will continue to do if we do not get some high picks. Even if we were to trade for Gasol putting him with PP it doesn’t make us a title contender. Our team would still not be able to compete with the West. I do not see him doing all that much to make Memphis better. Trading Pierce however painful to watch is the only hope for the long term good of the team.

As great as P P is , he is not exactly the most coachable player in the league. Since he came into the league , thanks to O Brien , he has been able to play his own game with little regard to a team concept. Sure he puts up good numbers, but he does little to make others around him better.

As you recall he was somewhat selfish in his stint with Team USA , if you’re unwilling to share the ball with the best players in the world , then there is no chance in hell that he will share it with this group.

This isn’t about bad mouthing Pierce. He has been a great player— but like Iverson, he’s a great player with alot of mileage who isn’t getting any better. I don’t care what he did in 2002. What’s he going to do against Houston tonight?

Time’s winged chariot is hurrying near, and the Celtics had better do something about it.

Your team is only as good as your leader. If you aern’t a good leader then you won’t have a good team. I remember an argument about this between Pierce and Kobe a year or so ago.

The reason the Rebuiding is taking so long is that it is being done at half speed… You either go all out trade PP and get the interchangeable parts or you do not and build around him. You can not have both and expect good results. Make a decision and stick to it, being afraid only makes a team have no long term plan an a state of limbo.

If we lose the lottery, Pierce may need to be traded. Especially if we can get a stud like Livingston or Deng.

On the other hand, with Jefferson’s vast improvement, Theo’s expiring contract, and the good news that even if we miss Oden/Durant, we’ll get an exciting young player like Brandan Wright, this team isn’t without some building blocks. We should be able to get a very good player in the draft, and should be able to pick up a solid vet this offseason. Will that plus Pierce plus Jefferson equal contender? Probably not.

If, after weighing what happens in May and then this Summer, Danny Ainge reaches the conclusion that the Celts are not a contender in ‘07-’08 (and likely will not be in ‘08-’09), IMO, he has to pull the trigger on Pierce while he’s still an all-star caliber player. It stinks, but that’s just the way it is. Great organizations in all sports know to let go of veteran players at the right time.

Well maybe Ainge hasn’t reached the conclusion that the Celtics won’t contend for the next two years, but I sure have.

1st of all Paul is not fully healthy. I don’t think you want to state that his play is going downhill until we see him fully recovered. 2nd, Danny doesn’t want to trade him. His goal has been to build around him via good drafting and trades. I wouldn’t think that all of a sudden he has a change of heart due to this crappy season. I’m sure in Danny’s mind the injuries are huge. His plan may well be to keep Pierce as his base going forward, then add a very high draft pick (possibly a franchise player)and continue to look to add via a trade of his other assets. If we get Oden, even though he will take time to develop on the offensive end, the defensive ability he would bring to the team would help right away. Probably better than anything we could add via trade. Assume some improvement from Rondo/West/Telfair at the point, Al in the post, Green on the wing and health from Wally and Tony and we should be a much better team record wise than this year. Then as Oden improves year to year we will get better as our other youngs should also improve. At the same time Paul will inevitably decline but should still be a solid contributor to the team.

we should have made the move for Chris paul when we had a chance.I agree with the wait and see approach but deep down my personal belief is that we will have to trade Pierce and the sooner we do it the better. danny’s biggest mistake IMO was in not blowing up the whole team from day one. trying to build around one player whether it’s Iverson, Kobe or Pierceis very hard to do. we’ve been trying to it for 3-4 years now with not much success. Pierce is a warrior and is capable of carrying a team for stretches but he is also getting older,is not an ideal player for the running style that we want to play and will soon be making a lot more than he’s worth. so why not move him while he has some value. Deng, PJ Brown and the knicks pick would do it for me. You could even substitute Gordon in there and I would probably do it. Yes, we may stink some more and yes we delayed our rebuilding by not doing it sooner but unless you land Oden or Durant AND a solid veteran you’re still going to be stuck in never never land and Pierce will decline before that team is ready to win. Better to jettison Pierce now, get some young players who are already established a bit and a draft pick or two that you can use in deals or to stockpile more young talent.

No Brick you don’t build around Pierce and Wally, you build around Pierce and Jefferson and maybe Green. Green might be Joe Johnson but Gomes and West are not and won’t be. Further, I didn’t say trade Green. He is not in line for an extension. Trading him won’t save you any money. Gomes and West are solid low paid rotation players. Those two combined with a the third or fourth pick in the draft and $11 million in cap relief is a good package. You ought to be able to get a good vet, either a defensive forward or a decent point guard for that. Put that player with Jefferson, Pierce and Green and hopefully a fully recovered Allen and you have a pretty good base. Then, next summer, you have Wally’s expiring contract to play with. By two years from now, you have Pierce who will still be an all-star, Green, who should be a no worse than a Allen Houston type player, Jefferson who should be a 20-10 guy and the vet you pick up this summer. With the right move this summer, that team competes in the East. With the right use of Wally’s expiring contract and or cap room in 2008-2009, it might do better than that. Is that the 86 Celtics? No. But it is a lot better than giving Pierce away from someone else’s trash and playing lottery ball next year again. I am not opposed to trading Pierce for value, but I don’t see it happening.

The Season can’t end fast enough for me.

Another Month and half, I can’t take it no more !!!!!!!

At least Manny is in Camp

A powerful lot of gunslingin’ goin’ on here…Good stuff!…What I don’t understand is how we can be so fired up when we know that nothing makes sense until May 22nd…It looks to me like no Oden or Durant and Pierce definitely goes…either Oden or Durant and most likely Pierce goes, with his blessing on top of it all…
But that puts Paul in no different a space than Gasol, KG, JO, et. al…There are so many variables that for now I’m content with hoping that we land a top two pick, and some of these kiddoes show me what might be in the future…Right now, I’m dismayed and nothing looks solid, but somehow I can’t help but think that Wally’s wheels will get us the help we need since he can’t use them…It’s a pity that they have quit on him cause when they’re there, he’s one of the smoothest shooters in the league and a hell of a smart player, but, of course, we’ll never get the chance to see the player he was envisioned to be…Maybe we’ll see him as a coach…but i digress…

“But that puts Paul in no different a space than Gasol, KG, JO, et. al…”

That is why you can’t trade Pierce. It is a buyers market on orphaned all-stars. All of those teams are going to be looking to unload those guys. Who is going to give market value for Pierce under those circumstances? If it is a buyer’s market, buy, don’t sell. Keep Pierce and Jefferson and get him another quality vet to play with.

I might give up PP in a trade if we got Durant in the lottery. I just have a feeling it would be better to build around Durant than PP, and of course PP would be used to get the parts. I don’t know if it is realistic because LA isn’t likely to give up Bynum, but Perk, West, (Gomes) and PP for Bynum, Rad man, and Brown or something like that to make the numbers work would be fine with me. The C’s wouldn’t win next year, but Bynum, Al, Durant, GG, and Rondo would be fun to watch grow into something special. Telfair, Allen, Wally, Vladi, and Brown isn’t a bad second unit. Lakers would have a core of Kobe, PP, and Lamar, which would be tough to swallow. West, Gomes, and Perk would be good role players in Jackson’s triangle offense and would probably flourish under him. If we couldn’t pry away Bynum or someone comprable, or lucked out with Oden in the draft, I probably wouldn’t trade PP.

Here’s what’s going to happen if we don’t get a top two pick: Ratliff, GG, Noah/Wright, and whatever else we need to include (besides PP and Al) will be dealt for KG. I’ve said this before, but KG is getting traded. The only way he doesn’t opt out after next season is if Minnesota gets demonstrably better this summer and they can’t because they have too many bad contracts. He knows it, and McHale/Hoiberg know it. Unless the Bulls extend some guys to make up the salary differences, no one else can top what we can offer. Teams may have better talent, but no one else has a $12M, 80% paid expiring contract. A team of Rondo/West, TA, Pierce, KG, and Al will win.

I also don’t understand all this talk about the Celtics being horrible even if we were healthy this year. We would have been almost the exact same team as we were last year, except for a more experienced AL Jeff, which would have netted us a few more wins. We would have just missed the playoffs and would be in the 10-14 range once again. Obviously not good, but by no means the worst in the league.

Trading Pierce is not the answer. Anyone who thinks we’d get the same haul as the AI trade wasn’t paying much attention. AI asked out in the middle of a season, and they deactivated him. This decreased their leverage a huge amount. Phili was also pidgeon holing themselves by demanding draft picks for the ‘07 draft because there were only two teams with 2 picks (Phoenix and Denver). The other bidding teams couldn’t offer more than one. You hold onto Pierce unless someone blows you away with an offer.

You know, I like the idea of Livingston and Maggette for PP. My best friend is a Clipper fan and we both liked Simmons trade idea at the dead line if it could of happened;

Clips get: Paul Pierce, Jason Kidd, Mikki Moore.

Celtics get: Corey Maggette, Shaun Livingston, Aaron Williams ($1.7m per, expires 2008), Scot Pollard and Eddie House (expiring), plus Minny’s 2007 No. 1 (currently owned by the Clips) AND the Clippers’ 2008 No. 1.
Cavs get: Sam Cassell, Yaroslav Korolev (expiring) and two minimum-salary deals (Leon Powe and Allan Ray).

Nets get: Chris Kaman, Sebastian Telfair, three expiring deals (Rebraca, Pavlovic, Newble) and the Clips’ No. 1 pick in 2007.

I don’t know how the smiley face got there should of been 08

That trade would of given PP a good chance at a title in his carreer. We would of only lost PP and Telfair, still had our number 1 and additional picks.

Funny how guys think that PP is not playing as well as he can cause he hasnt fully recovered yet. If PP was fully recovered, dont you think he would be committing more TO’s than now. You think he would be even better on defense or be just as bad as he was when he was healthy before? PP’s best playing times are past, whether guys like it or not. He is older, more injury prone, slower as his frame has gotten bigger and heavier. He is just not a kid anymore and the age factor is catching up with him, as it did with Bird, Mchale and Parish. Time to get some value for him; but dont get too greedy cause we might wait too long to make a move and may end getting stuck with him as we are with Scal and Wally.

If/When PP wants out, celts would be lucky to get a Maggette/Livingston deal.

DA will not be dealing from a position of strength once PP demands a trade, so its either give some vet help (NOW) to keep him happy - or risk getting a deal similar to sixers got for iverson (if we’re lucky).

I put forth this very question at the beginning of the year. Do the C’s trade Pierce, or make a trade to help Pierce? This offseason, and especially the bounce of the balls in the lottery, will decide just that. I think that if the C’s loose out on the lottery, and are not enamoured with whomever they would aquire at #2, 3, or 4… you’ll see the C’s try trade the pick Theo for a player of merrit. I can see the C’s moving for Kidd or Carter on the cheap. It’s obvious that the Nets are moving toward dumping Kidd and his salary, and that Carter is not entirely in their plans. They’d have to pay for anyone else. I’m not sure Gasol will be traded, matter of fact, I doubt it. He’s only 26 and Memphis has some talent and will draft high. They, like us, could turn it around pretty quick with Durant or Oden. Which is exactly why this offseason is so critical. The Lottery is key to what the C’s do. I know that’s obvious, but I think Pierce’s future rests on the lottery.

I think an ideal trade from a C’s perspective would be Deng . I think Deng could be a real nice player. I’m not sure Chicago would part with him. Bynum would have to come from the Lakers. They got nothing else. The Clippers, I think, would do Livingston and Maggette for Pierce plus some icing. The Clips would be darn good with Pierce, Kaman, Brand, Mobley, Cassell starting 5. They’d need a young PG maybe. Would Pierce and Telfair work? Would you include PP & West? The Clips might do it.

The time to trade PP was when DA traded AW. C’s needed to either rebuild or build around AW & PP. DA did neither and that was mistake 1. Mistake #2 trading AW to Dallas instead of getting back expiring contracts/chance at lottery picks he got back a terrible contract and draft picks in 20 range. Mistake #3 trade with LA. Why give up young talent to get 37 Y/o PG well past his prime. Mistake #4 getting back AW. This moved kept us out of the lottery for a 1st Rd bust in Playoffs. Mistake #5 once you made the AW trade DA should of signed him. Mistake #6 Minn Trade DA gets back worst contract (WS)then he gave up (MB)along with his best contract(RD)along with youth (banks and Reed) Mistake #7 Protland trade never give up lottery pick to get rid of a contract. DA needed to rebuid (trade PP & AW togther) or build around PP & AW. When he tried to win and rebuild at the same time he was doomed to fail. Now even with a top 2 pick we are yrs away from contending and when DA/DOc get fired the ownership will not want to start over so we are fast becoming the Clippers of the east and its just killing me.

its getting harder and harder to argue with bricks sentiment. hell unless we get oden i still think maybe you move paul. durant is not gonna be a good defender out the gate. you might be better off moving paul and filler(2008 conditional pick or one of the pgs) for maggette and livingston.
you get a lineup of livingston, maggette, wally, al, perk
with rondo/west, tony, gerald, durant, scal/powe

I agree with Hotlanta. Instead of taking LaFrentz, the Celtics should have offered Pierce and Walker for Nowitski.

Come down to earth guys. Nobody was ever going to trade Nowitski for Pierce and Walker.

However, as for real possibilities, what’s so enticing about trading Pierce for Maggette and Livingston? Maggette’s an over-priced 6-6 swingman. Another one of those guys who was going to be the next Michael Jordan. Meanwhile, Livingston’s just another unfulfilled pipe dream of a really big point guard.

Now as for Bynum… that’s a different story. Somebody tell me how we can get him next to Jefferson.

I think Dallas would have thought long and hard about Pierce/Walker for Nowitski in 2003, particularly if the C’s also agreed to take one of their other bad contracts as filler, e.g. Tari

If Dallas would’ve made that deal, then they’ve known considerably less about basketball than you and I do.

How about this trade that works in the machine as long as we’re talking trading Paul…

Boston gets:

Jermaine O’Neal from Indiana
Mike Miller from Memphis

Indiana gets :

Paul Pierce
Pau Gasol

Memphis Gets:

Jeff Foster
Sebastian Telfair
Theo Ratliff

Boston ends up with a good trade for Paul, gets rid of Sebastian, and uses Theo’s value
Indiana gets Paul and Gasol and makes a big jump
Memphis sheds salary, an unhappy Gasol, and picks up a point with “potential”. Also a big to tide them over until they draft Oden… (Just our luck)

Yeah, Memphis would probably make that trade. Right after Dallas offers us Nowitski straight up for Olowokandi.

I meant Tariq Al Wahad or whatever his name was. The guy who played at Fresno State and then adopted a muslim name.

But back to the present. What’s going to happen is that the Celtics will get the #3 or #4 pick thanks to David Stern. They will try to trade the pick on draft night but they will fail, and will wind up taking a priject Noah, Brandon Wright or Li Jianlian. They will keep Rivers on as a lame duck coach, because they are too cheap to pay him for not coaching— not even for a second.

Just before Christmas, with their record at 7-13 or thereabouts, Pierce will demand a trade. It will be a reprise of the Iverson situation with slightly less drama. Eventually they’ll trade Pierce to the Lakers for Kwame Brown and Vladimir Radmanovic, who will have to be threatened with a suspension before he agrees to report to the Celtics.

Grousbeck and Ainge will blame youth, injuries, Jim O’Brien’s resignation, bad luck, Pierce’s trade demands and the fickle Boston fans for the sorry state of the team. Anything but themselves.

You’re killing me Brick. Leave me my dreams for a couple of months.

No Kidding – Memphis is trying to shed salary. We may have to throw in a top 3 protected pick in with that to get it done, but they’d look at that real hard. That might even be worth our pick without protection. Look at this line-up:

Starter Rotation

Rondo West
Pierce Green
Miller Wally
Jefferson Gomes
O’Neal Perk

The more I look at that the more I do that right this moment without a second thought of top 3. Memphis likely gets Oden and Durant. One of those two is going to be a disappointment and that will look like a steal!

Ejplaya, your C’s line up with O’Neal and Miller in it would be fine with me. But the Grizzlies would be run out of Memphis if they agreed to it.

The real question is, as Brick suggested, would the Celtics be willing to trade Pierce for Kwame Brown and Vladimir Radmanovic? I’m not sure I wouldn’t be happy to do that deal this summer (assuming we didn’t get the #1 or #2 draft pick).

Pierce for Kwame (never will be a player at all) and Radmonovic would be an awful deal for Pierce. This goes back to the comments of 2 decent players aren’t worth 1 all-star. Kwame isn’t even a decent player. He’s a bust. I keep Pierce and trade elsewhere if that is as good as it gets…

No way Memphis fans are upset to get the 1st and 2nd selections in this draft if the balls give us two the top picks. Gasol isn’t that well loved and they would be able to truly build with the two of those. I’d give them Pierce for Miller and their number one…

We are way past the stage as to “what should we have done”. At least now more guys in here (not that it matters one iota to the owners) are ready to entertain the unthinkable idea of 2 weeks ago, that PP was untouchable, or untradeable, if that term suits your fancy better.

Must be that most thought that once PP came back from X stress, we would probably win the division, and he has hardly steered the team in that direction. Au contraire, we are seeing PP in his human form, a top offensive player once that is slowly losing a step here and there. Its not his fault; he is a true Celtic who tries to do what he knows to do best; control the offense and drive to the basket cause he believes he is the best to do that in our team.

Well of course Kwame is a bust. His contract is expiring, though.

If Pierce demands a trade, that’s all you will get for him.

EJ- Not sure about it, but everytime I’ve watched Kwame Brown, I thought I saw real talent (and not just because of his height, and forgetting his draft history). As for Radmonovic, yeah he seems out of his element. But so did Nowitski for quite a spell. And then, their combined contracts are a lot better than Pierce’s. I’m thinking I’d do it.

(And honestly, I can’t see Memphis trading Gasol for nothing but a salary dump.)

Vlad Rad is a stiff and Kwame has no redeeming basketball value. The point is to grant Pierce his wish to leave the Celtics, go back to his home town and save the Celtics around 40 million.

Maybe the Lakers throw in a future first— if you are lucky.

Yeah, Radmonovic is likely a stiff, and Kwame’s probably a bust (although not much worse than Perkins, a career backup center).

But if you’re shedding yourself of Pierce’s salary, it’s not bad if you can get a possibility of something turning out better than expected.

I would trade Pierce to Charlotte for G.Wallace & their #1. Charlotte is looking to make a splash as the fans around here could care less about the team right now.

Mgmt and ownership are embarassed, feeling incompetent, feeling pressure (real/perceived/self-induced) to right the ship. And worst yet … they have TICKETS to sell. Are they inclined to go younger (albeit w/ improved but younger talent). Will that provide the needed “Buzz”? Do they chance a big deal … new blood … that’ll provide “buzz” … but what if it’s perceived a as band-aid … a bad long term deal from an organization on “tilt”. Won’t convince season ticket holders to shell out $ w/ that perception. Maybe they just keep Pierce around … add a piece or two … show we’re still building for today, while not giving up on the youth movement. Lots less risk … that story will keep the faithful coming in to spend $. What do you guys think the mind set is?

Anyway … I’d vote to move Pierce, free up as much cap space as possible, bring in young (top ten 1st round types) talent, and let the kids play. Of the youth we have, who’s rounding out to be starter types. Just Jefferson, rest are pretty good bench players. We need more talent. And I’d rather it be young talent. Based on what I said above, Wyc and Danny WILL NOT go this route.

If we do win the lottery, does that really change the situation much? Isn’t the question about trading Pierce one about generational mismatch, a mismatch that will be there whether we win the lottery or not? Aren’t the choices trade for vets or trade Pierce almost regardless of whether we get #1 or #2?

 whether Pual pierce or we like it or not Paul Pierce is signed for the next five years to play basketball for the Celtics. WE should ride him for all he is worth until we get that 17th banner he is the best we have and we should be bold enought to add whatever player (s) needed to win and compete for championships until he retires. He is our foundation to the future and it starts with him. Stated another way Our future is sooner rather than later with Paul Pierce.

If he is to be traded this year we should work like hell to get it done with Chicago. They have the youth and picks to make a deal work no other team can help us in that regard. If you look around there are no expiring contracts to help make a deal work thus we gain no Cap advantage by trading him nor do we gain any players who can contribute any more than Paul. so why trade him?
 I propose we bring in stars from other teams. Paul Gasol;Mike Bibby; Baron Davis; Ray Allen and / or Rashard Lewis type players to surround pierce rather than trading him. WE have the expiring contract most team would want and a few young players from which a team might choose.

I think all of us are sick of rebuilding. We’ve been a horrible basketball team for nearly 20 years.

Pierce is our centerpiece, and it’s time for Danny to push all-in. We’ve got picks, young talent, and an expiring contract. The goal has to be landing two All-Star players. Garnett and Ray Allen are the targets, and even if we have to lose Al, G$, DWest, Gomes, and our #1 picks this year and next, so be it.

Danny needs to push for cap space. Some deep-pockets owner would take Wally, I think, if we sent our #1 pick in 2008 or 2009 with him. We need expiring contracts.

Pierce for Livingston and Maggette is about the only trade I’d make. We need a PG desperately, and I think Maggette would thrive if given the ball and the minutes.

celts beat houston tonight! Hello? Hello?

i have a feeling we’ll probably win the last game of the season and drop back a slot in the lottery because of it.

we’re going to start a play off; run screw the lottery, we’ll just win it this year.

Just last year Pierce was an all star. He was healthy! He is not currently. Let’s give him a break please! I agree with the person who said that they see Garnett being moved this summer. Chicago will be out of it due to no large contracts to match. Minny will want him in our conference. The only problem I see is that does Wyc bye into having PP, KG and Wally’s big contracts on the payroll all at the same time.

Trading Pierce is crazy. You don’t trade your franchise player. He deserves to play his entire career here and get his number retired. We need a new coach.

oh yeah i think like dat, you can’t trade him even if most think he can"t win a title, i think with time n work they can doin’ something with dis player the team is great ;D