Ainge Defends Himself

Ainge traded for LaFrentz but he didn’t sign him to the contract. That he already had with him when he came over from Dallas. That trade didn’t turn out so bad. With the #1 pick the C’s got Tony Allen and for Jiri Welsch they wound up with Rajon Rondo. No GM is perfect but for the most part I agree with the moves Ainge has made.

Even the highly-rated GM’s make mistakes. Phoenix can’t wait to get rid of Marcus Banks after signing him to a five-year deal over the summer. RC Buford of the Spurs brought in Rasho Nesterovic for six years and he never really clicked with Duncan. Joe Dumars signed Nazr Mohammed for 5 years and he’s riding the pine in Detroit while they look for some team to take his contract.

Danny doesnt have to defend his track record as it doesnt need defending. He needs to defend his decision to keep doc though.
Doc has been here long enough to have taught a little team defense
and other little things(tongue & cheek) like how to handle zone play.
Doc might be good one on one so he would be better suited as an assistant , but doc doesnt know crap about teaching team play.
i guess that is why he is tied for last for coaches and his team is in very last.
Danny defend keeping Doc , not keeping soon to be stars like Green and Rajon.

“"If we had known we could get Rajon Rondo (in a trade with Phoenix for the 21st pick), we may not have done the trade for Sebastian”

Interesting words, don’t you think?"

I personally found this part more interesting….

“but I think having two good, young point guards is an asset.”

We’ve got two good young point guards? Most nights you have to stretch it to find one decent one.

Lemonadesky, it doesn’t matter who gave him the contract initially. Ainge traded for it, therefore it became HIS contract. That’s kind of how it works when you deal for a player. Have you been to this site much? The whole “we got a couple number 1 picks out of the deal” argument has been pretty much debunked and rendered meaningless.

Also, the Marcus Banks signing was the new GM, not Bryan Colangelo’s move. And of course every GM makes mistakes. But those good GMs you mentioned have also made enough good moves to have winning seasons year after year. Ainge had not made enough good moves to cover up his mistakes, and that’s why his mistakes are magnified. The product speaks for itself, frankly.

Banks can still work out he is still young and only on his 3rd team.

I find it very odd that a GM would be so open like Ainge is. I mean the players are going to read this in the newspaper and feel like trash.

Ainge just called all of his young guys “assets” and that’s just down right silly. They’re human beings with dreams….they’re freaking kids!

If I’m any one of them I am talking to my agent right away to see how many other teams have interest in my game.

TheReaLPuba…you took the words right out of my mouth. I’d feel like crap if I were one of those young C’s who are being looked at as nothing more than trade bait when the time is right. Danny’s comments made it sound like it is just a matter of time before he trades a few young C’s. Nothing like lifting up your team and keeping spirits high. How do you go to work every day knowing that your boss wants to get rid of you? I hope that motivates the young C’s to step it up and show Danny that they should stay in green.

“Ainge just called all of his young guys "assets” and that’s just down right silly. They’re human beings with dreams….they’re freaking kids!"

He’s been calling them assets for months, if not years. I doubt they’re that sensitive to what is, a statement of fact. What GM runs around talking about how their players are “human beings with dreams”?

“If I’m any one of them I am talking to my agent right away to see how many other teams have interest in my game.”

Because the mean GM called you a name? (and a positive one at that)

I’m going to wait and see what Danny flips Theo Ratliffs contract into first, which will be after the pick probably…Hopefully we get oden and either use that money towards resigning youngs or trade for a good vet. If we were EVER able to land a person like say, Marion(PHX needs cap space) to go as a sf in our starting lineup with Al, Oden, Pierce, and West we would then be on a healthy balance of youth and vets in an actual winning atmosphere/serious contending atmosphere….Theo and Gerald for Marion if we get Oden this summer??? By the time Marion’s contract is up we sign Oden. Dreams…..

Ainge Supporter here, so listen up ;D ;D

1.) Aside from his trades starting with Antoine, which we all can say now was a disaster, he has made some trades to make up for it collecting draft picks.

2.) His picking of talent from the draft is top notch. Granted he amassed youth, but he picked the best available talent with each pick. How many of the players that were picked later than his have made a significant impact on there respective teams?

3.) The learning curve as I like to call it. Danny came on board and like it or not as Pitino made fast and rash decisions and he didn’t allow himself to grow into the job. Pitino’s mistakes and there were many have been felt for years. In my mind Pitino set this franchise back more than we thought. Danny has grown into his position and is not making irrational decisions.

4.) Future Promise. Here lies the key, “" THIS OFF SEASON "” if Danny doesn’t produce this off season and is able to bring in a quality Veteran to help, and then we are in trouble. Also we need to have either of the top 3 picks in the draft.

5.) Expiring Contracts, Next season Ratliff’s contract is up and this will open up salary cap space and the season after we are done with Wally’s as well.

6.) Other GM’s around the league. Look at the league overall and asses everyoneâ€â"¢s talent who is near the bottom this year. I would take our players over anyone elseâ€â"¢s. For all the Hoopla that Jerry West receives for being a great GM, Memphis has nothing to show for it.

7.) Yes it’s taken longer than we expected, however Green, Jefferson, Rondo will be something to reckon with in a year or two.

8.) Pass – I give Danny a pass for this year, again it all depends what happens once the season is over and what he assembles for a team for the upcoming season.

Danny must put up or shutup this summer.He’s got a top pick,expiring contract and assets to trade.he no longer has the fallback"i’m not trading youth for lousy vets" .60 losses eliminates that arguement.He’s gotta pull the trigger if nothing else to clear PT for the guys he keeps…the coach???..another day…lol

Did Powe start and only get 3 minutes? What am I missing here? I’m guessing he got hurt?

Danny needs to give a better answer than that for the Telfair trade. Rudy Gay and Brandon Roy are contributing as rookies and will both be near all-stars for years to come. Telfair is a disaster. How can he say that he likes Telfair? Danny needs to stop insulting people’s intelligence. If he likes Telfair so much, why can’t he crack the lineup on the worst team in the league? I can defend every move Danny has made but I can’t defend that one. It was a stupid deal on every level. It was a total desparation reach for need. Yes, I know that the Celitcs were already deep at the wing, but if nothing else, they could have drafted Gay or Roy, let them play this year and then traded them. Either one of those guys are worth ten times more than Telfair who they won’t be able to give away. At best Telfair is a throw in to make the salaries work. Roy or Gay would have been a valuable piece that could have helped attract a good vet.

ricky must be averaging about 20; wally has barely played for us. Of course we have to see what the minny picks turns out to be. the first walker trade set everything in motion. he took on an injured player in LaFrentz with a huge salary. the crazy part is he knew raef was injured and they could have rescinded that trade. You may recall that trade was delayed because xrays showed problems with raef’s knees. But Danny was so hot to get rid of antoine that he did the deal anyhow. Ditto for the ricky and wally trade. each of his bad trades has forced another bad trade until you finally get to the telfair deal which will go down in history as one of the worst celtic deals ever. Outside of Joe Johnson for rodney rogers and chauncey for kenny anderson this ranks right up there. And he contradicts himself. The reason he now gives for the telfair deal is to get rid of raef’s contract so he could sign the young guys. But in the same breath he says he planned to trade the young guys for a veteran or 2 who presumably would already have long term deals. so which is it, Danny?

No, Rivers just forgot to put Powe back in the game. It was a stupid decision, really. On a night when neither team could hit the broadside of a barn, you might want a good rebounder in the game, don’t you think?

As for Ainge, he has painted himself into a corner. Everyone knows he has too many young players and needs to do something. That is true whether he keeps Pierce or trades him. For starters, he doesn’t have the cap space to give all of them extensions at market value, even after unloading LaFrentz. So other teams are just waiting around to pick up a good young player or two on the cheap.

Back to Doc; Why give Doc all the blame for lack of TEACHING? Perhaps he really is totally to blame for having assembled worthless assistants. Coaching/teaching is the responsibility of the whole coaching staff and I’m not willing to give Doc’s assistants a free pass. Well, I will give Clifford Ray that pass but how much better could our players be if, in addition to Clifford Ray, we had the likes of a John Lucas to teach fundamentals? I still wonder why Dennis Johnson was overlooked as a teaching assistant.

Doc gets no pass for game time situations where he has certainly left himself open to criticism with untimely substitutions (i.e., leaving green on the bench when a 3-point shot is needed to win a game). Green is one of our best 3-point shooters and can get his shot off too. Or leaving Kandi on the bench when we’re getting killed inside because we’re undersized etc., especially in the closing minutes of a game.

Last night’s victory was ugly and if there is a poignant reminder from the end result it’s got to be the team impact of playing withour your two best players (i.e., McGrady and Yao). The Celtics are well acquainted with having to play with bench players when their best 2, 3, or 4 players were on the shelf.

 perk said:
  Danny doesnt have to defend his track record as it doesnt need defending. He needs to defend his decision to keep doc though.
Doc has been here long enough to have taught a little team defense
and other little things(tongue & cheek) like how to handle zone play.
Doc might be good one on one so he would be better suited as an assistant , but doc doesnt know crap about teaching team play.
i guess that is why he is tied for last for coaches and his team is in very last.
Danny defend keeping Doc , not keeping soon to be stars like Green and Rajon.

Admit hiring Doc was a mistake Danny. Fire him at the end of the season. Do not make it worst by giving Doc a “free pass” because of all the injuries. That would be an insult to Celtic fans.

Danny made two moves that just killed his tenure. Everything since then has been to make up for those mistakes; he signed Mark Blount and he took on Raef’s contract. Why on earth he thought Reaf’s knees would hold out is beyond me. The Wally trade and the Telfair trade were just make ups for those two boneheaded deals.

1. Ainge is in a corner, because either him or Doc is losing thier job this off-season. Personally, Doc offends my sensibilities a hell of a lot more than Danny does. As a GM, I can understand most of Danny’s moves. As a Coach, I understand less than 25% of Doc’s moves.

2. We do have alot of young assets and that’s exactly what they are. Most of these guys don’t play like they’re Celtics, so that’s what they’ve allowed themselves to be catagorized as: ASSETS. They, for the most part treat the franchise like a business proposition, so therefore, why not in return treat them as colateral?

Problem is, with so much young talent and no one but Al Jefferson really making himself unexpendable(maybe there’s an arguement for GG), the rest of the young assets are basically firesale fodder. TA’s value is bunk because of the recurring injuries. Telfair….well, I got blasted by many when he came here for saying he was just short of garbage. Anyone with a reasonable arguement with me now? Perkins still isn’t the Center we want, although there’s still some promise there, but he needs a better coach to find it. Scals…..it goes without saying that he’s not going to fetch much.

If we don’t end up with the #1 pick in which to either take Durrant or Oden OR trade the pick for a very good player, we’re screwed again for next season.

Frankly, I’ve been a Celtic fan since I was old enough to know what basketball was. Over 3 decades of devotion and right now I feel a little more than just betrayed for my devotion. Next year has to be up and SIGNIFICANTLY UP or I’m going to start a riot. I’m hanging in there, but just barely. This season has been down right unbearable.

Sincerely,
hags

“I’m going to wait and see what Danny flips Theo Ratliffs contract into first, which will be after the pick probably.”

He’s not going to flip it into anything. If that deal was made to get under the tax threshold (which is the only logic that works because the rest of the deal was a disaster) then why think they’re going to use it to acquire actual assets which are tied up longer term?

“If we were EVER able to land a person like say, Marion(PHX needs cap space) to go as a sf”

So they deal thier starting PF for cap space while being one of the top 3 teams in the league? Sarver’s stated that if they’re championship contenders he’ll pay the luxury tax. In this case they’re only getting out from under one year of Marion’s deal. It’s a pipedream.

I am very bitter with Wyc, Danny and Doc. Call me a “Tiger Woods type fan”. Tiger doesn’t go to a tournament and hope he finishes in the “money”. It is the quest to be a champion and doing what is needed. You won’t see Tiger lose 22 of 24 tournaments and leave with a smirk on his face. You won’t see him play poorly and not hold his personal coach, his caddy, and himself accountable. To be 2W and 22L in any sport is a travesty and to hold nobody responsible until season’s end at the earliest makes this franchise a joke for all professional sports.

When the Cs were going through miserable times, M.L. Carr, Pitino, etc I could look back at it and see the rich history with Russell, Bird, etc and to me it was like being up $500 at the black jack table, hitting a bad spell and still walking away up $300. I didn’t expect any more than mediocrity out of this season, but to see how the season has unfolded and management’s reaction I find unacceptable.

Ainge is becoming a master of revisionist history. Each day he reminds me more of Rick Pitino. I guess he likes Delonte West, Tony Allen and Rajon Rondo more than Brandon Roy or Rudy Gay, if the Seabass deal was done to “save money.” This guy is full of crap.

If I hear one more whine about avoiding the luxury tax, I am just going to stop being a fan. The Celtics are not New Orleans. They play in a huge market, have rediculous ticket prices and a modern arena. They can afford a luxary tax. Say what you want about the Knicks, they at least try to win. Same goes for the Red Sox, who also have billionaire owners and expoit their fans for every possible penny but do at least put up an enormous payroll and try to win. If a big market team like the Celtics won’t pay the luxary tax, then they are just shilocks looking to rip off the fans and dont’ care about winning. Paul Gaston made the Gin Baker deal so he could save money in the short term before he sold the team. Before everyone runs Ainge and Doc out of town, might someone wonder if the current owners are any better than common theives.

“Danny needs to give a better answer than that for the Telfair trade. Rudy Gay and Brandon Roy are contributing as rookies and will both be near all-stars for years to come. Telfair is a disaster. How can he say that he likes Telfair? Danny needs to stop insulting people’s intelligence.”

I don’t understand why you think Danny owes you straight talk (assuming he doesn’t like Telfair). For him to talk down Telfair publicly is stupid, assuming he ever wants to deal him.

“He’s not going to flip it into anything. If that deal was made to get under the tax threshold (which is the only logic that works because the rest of the deal was a disaster) then why think they’re going to use it to acquire actual assets which are tied up longer term?”

Other logic that works: he will have an incredibly valuable expiring contract he can use in a deal for an expensive veteran player beginning this summer. If he lets Theo expire, you may have a point. But I doubt that’s what’ll happen.

“If we don’t end up with the #1 pick in which to either take Durrant or Oden OR trade the pick for a very good player, we’re screwed again for next season.”

I agree we need EITHER #1 or #2 OR a trade for an established star. One of these things will happen.

Okay, so we bash Danny now.

What happens that

1) we end up with either Oden or Durant
2) we end up getting a Veteran who’s presense helps this team
3) also our young guys are a year older and wiser and have developed say Jefferson, Green, Rondo
4) were making a serious run toward the playoffs

Then what? has Danny failed then? or is it pure luck ?

Believe me that every GM makes mistakes based upon Salary Cap reasons, maybe they don’t like certain personnel on their team, or whatever else. But, I’m sorry I still feel losing Johnson and Billups was huge for this team.

Just think where we’d be if we had Antoine, Johnson, Billups, and Pierce right now. We wouldn’t be talking all this crap and don’t blame Ainge for he didn’t trade Billups or Johnson and also he was told by Management to sign Blount, he never wanted to give him that contract, some of us forget that.

So think about it going into next season what

Jefferson, Green, Rondo, West, Allen, Perkins, Gomes and I pray Telfair will do for this team as they mature. Hell, didn’t we at the beginning of the year wish 1 out of this group would emerge; well right now with Jefferson, Green, and Rondo we have 3 legitimate stars in the making and great role players in West, Allen, Perkins, and Gomes

“I don’t understand why you think Danny owes you straight talk (assuming he doesn’t like Telfair). For him to talk down Telfair publicly is stupid, assuming he ever wants to deal him.”

Yeah, if Ainge would just pretend Telfair is any good people would want to trade for him. There is nothing wrong with being honest about players. Telfair needs to know he stinks if he doesn’t already. Maybe that will get him to work a little harder and develop a jump shot or something, not that that really matters because I can’t see him ever being anything but a shoot first point guard who can’t shoot. The only thing that can be said for that deal is that it got the Celtics out from under Raef’s contract. This summer Theo’s contract ought to be worth something, assuming the ownership is willing to take on salary and that is a big IF.

"1) we end up with either Oden or Durant
2) we end up getting a Veteran who’s presense helps this team
3) also our young guys are a year older and wiser and have developed say Jefferson, Green, Rondo
4) were making a serious run toward the playoffs

Then what? has Danny failed then? or is it pure luck ?"

If the C’s end up with Oden this spring or even Durant (and he’s as good as advertised) and they start heading for the playoffs next year with a core of PP, Big Al, Dden/Durant and whoever he can acquire for a package of young players, I wonder if Danny will be deemed successful by fans and media.

You could certainly quibble with how long it took, but that’s a potentially great foundation, ain’t it?

Danny blew the Telfair trade and this was known the minute it went down. Since Danny wants to revisit, okay let’s revisit. Two years ago the most NBA ready prospect out of the draft was Gomes, but because he is 4" shorter than other PF, a “tweener”, etc, he fell to us in the 2nd round. Obviously he was going to be able to contribute his rookie season but his upside potential was limited. This is exactly what happened. Gomes had to wait for injury after injury after injury to get his opportunity but once he got it, he proved what NBA scouts said all along. It wasn’t a “genius” pick by Ainge, we pretty much got what was expected, a solid 7-8th man who cannot get it consistently done night in and night out because of the tweener factor.

To acquire young players and then go through some charade of “earning your minutes” is not how to develop these kids. They needed court time, especially with Pierce getting older or if you are trying to showcase them for a trade. Gomes, greatest trade value was at the end of last season. Pierce’s greatest trade value, if you don’t think we are capable of getting the parts around him to contend, was the end of last season.

Which player coming out of last year’s draft was the NBA most ready player, Brandon Roy. Who will most likely be the NBA rookie of the year: Brandon Roy. McHale said, one way or the other, he was getting Foye, so Roy was ours. What NBA player is already playing like a veteran, vets- who Danny desperately needs and wants- Roy. Gay was ours. M. Williams was ours at #7 and #21. Toronto wanted to trade down, they also said they wanted a player to replace Villeneva in the Ford/Bucks trade. Villeneva is taller and will have a better career, but both he and Gomes were 12/6 players. Gomes, the #7 pick, and even Allen if needed could have netted us the #1 pick and Aldridge. Aldridge is not KG, but he will be a solid 16/8 man in a few years and I would have killed to have a front line of Aldridge, Pierce, Jefferson. So many chances to make us better last draft.

IMO, Roy, Gay, Bargani, Aldridge and M. Williams will all make at least one All Star roster through their career. There is a greater chance that Telfair will be out of the leauge in 5 years than becoming an All-Star. Danny needed to do his homework and didn’t. I knew this the day of the draft and I was physically sick once I heard of the Telfair deal on draft night.

“Yeah, if Ainge would just pretend Telfair is any good people would want to trade for him. There is nothing wrong with being honest about players.”

In public? Yes there is.

“Telfair needs to know he stinks if he doesn’t already. Maybe that will get him to work a little harder and develop a jump shot or something, not that that really matters because I can’t see him ever being anything but a shoot first point guard who can’t shoot.”

He does need to know if he stinks. I agree. And you do that in practice, behind closed doors, in huddles etc. You don’t do it in the media.

If you think he’s a shoot-first PG who can’t shoot forever, I can’t say the evidence points to anything else. BUT – the kid is very young, and six years of improvement, assuming he’ll work at it, probably makes him useful. How useful? We don’t know.

“The only thing that can be said for that deal is that it got the Celtics out from under Raef’s contract. This summer Theo’s contract ought to be worth something, assuming the ownership is willing to take on salary and that is a big IF.”

If they won’t, we oughta storm the Garden.

“IMO, Roy, Gay, Bargani, Aldridge and M. Williams will all make at least one All Star roster through their career. There is a greater chance that Telfair will be out of the leauge in 5 years than becoming an All-Star. Danny needed to do his homework and didn’t. I knew this the day of the draft and I was physically sick once I heard of the Telfair deal on draft night.”

I didn’t like the deal then and I hardly love it now. But Williams and Gay were hardly sure things. My guess is Danny 1) desperately wishes he hand’t done it and 2) will now look to make use of the Ratliff contract.

“well right now with Jefferson, Green, and Rondo we have 3 legitimate stars in the making”

If this isn’t over the top, I don’t know what is. No one can seriously label Jefferson, Green and Rondo as 3 legitimate stars in the making, can they? The only guy we have seen enough from to even consider for this label is Jefferson. Rondo has been up and down, up and down, and Green has shown a nice jump shot and great vertical leap. Continuing to overrate the C’s young talent will be the fatal downfall of Danny and his fan club.

Telfair may be garbage, but he certainly outplayed Wonder Boy Rondo last evening.

“I don’t think the main reason DA traded Toine for Raef was to get rid of Toine. Instead, I think he was trying to find a C to complement Big Al. I agree with the thinking that if you have a low-post PF stud without (much of) an outside shot, the ideal complementary C is one who can step outside and knock down the ouitside shot.”

This is an interesting point. But while this can certainly work, I loathe 5’s whose games are based upon outside shooting. I much prefer two inside players in my 4 and 5. That means you need your PG, SG, and SF to be able to shoot, but the Center who lives and dies by the outside shot drives me nuts.

As long as Danny is bringing up the draft, at some point he is going to have to take responsiblity for passing 2X on M. Williams.

Another “non-genius” draft move. Danny is saying we are going to build around Pierce, Pierce is the franchise. What are Telfair and Rondo- 2 undersized guards, both “flyers” who race it up and down the court, both less than mediocre jump shooters, both slasher type potential.

Pierce was never a player, even at KU, that raced up and down the court on the wing. At some point, teams, even the Suns, can’t run in parts of the game. So who are you going to have “run” the offense in the half court, especially at the end of games when teams actually tighhten it up and play tough defense with the game on the line?
Who is the better playmaker- M. Williams, Rondo, Telfir?

What did Pierce do early in the season whey Telfair and Rondo tried to run? Pierce sat back under the boards and got rebounds, he was our biggest rebounder early in the season. So who does that leave to fill the wings on the break: bad wheels Wally, Perk, Big AL, Scalabrine…
This uptempo run every chance you get, Suns East coast, etc was doomed from the start and that too goes on Danny. Not only is the their a talent void between Telfair and the top 7 picks, but we aren’t even playing to what little “strengths” he has to entice any trade value.

The Nets were ready to unload Kidd and turn the reins over to M. Williams. Odds are 5 to 1 that Rondo never devlops the outside shot needed to be able to harbor respect from defenders. Rondo is a good defender, good rebounder, a good spark, and worthy of the #21 pick if M. Williams was no longer available.

I know the M. Williams character question with selling a stolen lap top at Conneticut. However, we were trying to get Allen Iverson and I would have taken my chances with 1,000 M. Williams players compared to one AI.

I was onboard for trading Pierce. I like Pierce, and wish him the best, but I concluded last year, we will never be able to get him the pieces to truly contend and that as a fan is what I’m about.

Pierce is like a $50 stock that was up to $80 last year. We missed the boat on the trade and now his value is slowly declining due to age, other free agent vets on the market, etc. You don’t wait until the stock goes down to $60, $55, etc to unload it. Barring a trade for KG in the off season, I don’t see any other vet coming in that makes us one of the few favorites to contend.

Last year, we probably could have gotten Deng, Gordon or Heidrich, and the Knicks pick for Pierce. I know Bulls want inside scoring but Pierce shot 47% from the field which is better than most “big men”. He also gets to the line 10X a game which again are easy points. Right now, Bulls won’t do Deng and Gordon for Gasol, so probably at best you have Deng plus a pick for Pierce (assuming somehow other contracts can make trade #s work).

Even if Suns crap out this season, Pierce is not a run and gun player and the more half set offense they have to run with Pierce, the less effective Nash and all the other Suns players are, so don’t expect a Suns deal. McHale will demand Big Al in a trade and I don’t know if I do that or not assuming KG is ready to leave at season’s end.

It’s easy to find fault. Danny’s trades haven’t worked out but he hasn’t been shy to try and make something happen. Maybe one of you genesises can give me a fool proof way to go from middle of the pack – 14-16 best team in the NBA to a championship. And when you do it, you have no salary cap room, are pushing the luxury tax and have an aging lineup with NO TRADE value and the team recently screwed up with 3 1st round picks. And you have to deal with Gin Baker fiasco.

That is the situation Danny inherited. The one thing Danny has done is accumulate assets, primarily young talent. It’s not the greatest yet and may never be. But the other thing is that finally someone is being somewhat patient. He explains why he didn’t make a deal, nothing made sense. We could have given up Al and several other for a Vet. Course Al is a double/double every nite. He’s average 11 boards a nite. Oh yes, I forgot the only reason he averaging 11 boards is that he’s playing big minutes and they just come to him.

What happens if we fire Doc and Danny. Someone else will come in and “Start Over”. I guess that what many people want. And then we can wait another 5 or 6 years. Then we fire that management team and start over. And then we fire that management team and start over. Oh yeah, that’s what we’ve done for the last 20 years. And that hasn’t worked.

I think when you listen to both Danny and Wyc they are at least on the same page. They are willing to try and develop the kids, make them more valuable and build from within. Isn’t it getting old seeing Billup and Johnson come in as All Stars and with a championship ring.

This year has been a disaster mainly due to injuries. However, I think the team as constructed would have won between 36-42 games without the injuries. Look at Miami, they were without Shaq and are under 500 and they are the World Champs and have a very veteran team. You can’t lose your top players and not be affected. You have the disruption when they go out and then when they come back, and people have to step up and with this team they are being asked to do things that they aren’t capable of today. Maybe they will in the future but certainly not today.

The injuries have done what many on this board have said the Celts needed to have a really bad year or two to really accumulate some great young talent(s). I’m hoping the ping pong balls fall right this time and Oden starts at center next year.

I also think Danny will make a big deal this summer. He has some talent to trade. But I’m not for mortgaging the future for some broke down has been ghamble, I want a productive vet that can team will PP to move us into contender category. I want somebody who will really make a difference, and if that player is not avail or to expensive, I hope Danny has the restraint to resist making a bad deal.

Powe limited minutes.

This to me is a sign of our tanking. Not by players, but management. No reason in the world why Powe didn’t see major minutes last night, especially when teams were shooting in the 30% ranges last night. What was needed was a player who would crash the boards and muscle the ball in for inside scoring (Powe).

Powe is another Gomes like player with lots of potential but undersized. Danny can’t go wrong with a Powe pick. If he plays like he did 2 games ago the rest of the way, he is a 2nd round “steal”. Many teams passed on him again because he is “undersized” and his “injury issues”.

Danny consistently goes out and gets youngsters than blames the lack of success on being too young when more experienced players are available in the draft. We brought in an injured Wally, injured Theo, creaky knees Raef, etc. We play players who are injured and shouldn’t be on the court.

Then the excuse is, we were young and we were injured. Powe could blow out the knee and his career could end, and it would be the “curse”, etc, but not Danny’s fault for taking the risk on an injured draftee. I was in favor of the Powe pick and the risk, but I don’t think it is a genius pick. Give the kid minutes.

Youth and injuries contiue to be the excuse while Danny keeps bringing in more youth and injured players. It’s like murdering your parents and then pleading for sympathy from the court because you’re an orphan.

REASON TO BE THANKFUL EVERY DAY:
We’re crossing this wasteland of a season to reach the hopeful oasis of the 2007 draft – and not the relatively pathetic 2006 draft. Enduring this season to end up Bargnani at #1 is quite a depressing thought; he’s a nice player but nothing to change the fate of a franchise. At least there’s a possible pot of gold at the end of this.

REASON TO BE DEPRESSED EVERY DAY:
Even if we get the top pick, Ainge will probably trade it to Dallas before the draft for Eric Dampier and an overpriced player with no knees (be warned).

No matter what C management does, we are destined to be one of the 2 worst records in the NBA. Even if we play close to 500 ball, most all other teams except Grizzlies need only to win maybe 6 or 8 games out of 27 or so to have better records than us. I don’t see us playing 500 ball either.

Here is why a coaching change is needed: for no other reasons, Gerald Green and the defense. If Doc is gone now, we get the best basketball fundamental coach we can possibly find for the rest of season.

It doesn’t matter whether we are the worst or 2nd worst team this year on draft day, that’s where we will end up, even if UCLA’s John Wooden comes in.

Can this team collectively play good team defense with a new coach? Probably not “good” but not horrible either where we sometimes give up 90 points after 3Q. How much improvement can be made and how much blame then goes on Doc, how much on the players? We need answers and improvement now and for the rest of the season. I know Pierce and Wally are limited defensively, but what’s the excuse for most of the other 10 guys on the roster?

Secondly, Gerald Green won the dunk contest, I’m happy for him. Maybe this gives him a little shot of confidence, maybe he can now study defensive films instead of studying every winning dunk which he claims he has done. The dunk contest is like winning marbles at recess, no big deal. Bottom line, is Green going to use his physical skills to become a shut down defender like a Kobe Bryant, DJ, etc? Is Green going to hit the weights so he can absorb the physical pounding that comes when taking the ball to the hole? Is he going to try to become an all around player like a D-Wade, Kobe, MJ, etc or is he going to be content on averaging 14 points his career by taking outside jumpers for the most part? Get me a no nonsense, fundametal, hard-ass coach for the last 25 games of the season and let’s separate the wheat from the chaff on this team.

That’s why you make a coaching change now. I already know Danny has made horrible GM decisions and I know Doc doesn’t have an envious roster with the over abundance of 2s and 3s; but the system is broke and we need to know how much of the rest of this is on the “players” and how much is on “Doc”.

This franchise with Wyc, Danny and Doc is a “cancer”. I will take the nastiest medicine for the next 3 or 4 years to be rid of all of the above and have a team that is truly competitive and representitive of all this Celtic organization has stood for in its storied history.

The rest of this season is “useless”. The lack of playing Powe is the “tanking”. Danny, Doc, Wyc cannot come out and admit it or Stern will throw the hammer down on us; but that’s exactly what’s happening.

I don’t care to hear anymore of managments doublespeak. If they want to tell us stories about how the team all gets along and how much fun the players had at the Christmas party gift exchange, I don’t care. If I want a feel good story, I’ll turn on the Disney channel. I want a professional basketball team.

Everybody’s job is “safe” until seasons end (2-22 doesn’t matter). The only way for Powe to increase his playing time is to go out and play like crap for 12 minutes. Playing too well and hurting our draft postion by winning games will put Powe next to Kandi on the bench.

Remember all the jokes on this site about Isiah and Knicks? Well, multiply that by about 10X and you know what the rest of the league thinks of Doc, Danny and the Celtics. I couldn’t care 2 hoots what the rest of the league thinks, I know what we are and I know what management is and has done to us all.

To the comment that no gaurantee M. Williams will become the real deal at point guard. Granted I give you that, but I like the chances of him becoming a “premier” player. He is already having a much better year than Rondo and I think that gap will always be there and even get wider. Here’s my rational on why passing on him was wrong on so many levels with the #21.

You can’t be a “running team” with Pierce at SF and Wally at SG filling the lanes. Even Big Al at PF is not a ball handler on the break. You don’t have fast break players. You are building the team around a top 15 player who is not a fast break player and his postion at SF is one of the most improtant parts of running a fast break offense because many times it is the SF on these 3 on 2 breaks. They aren’t fast break players runners that Rondo/Telfair needs to play their style of ball with.

You also have 2 points that are the same type of players, small, lack offensive shooting skills, “fliers”, etc. M. Williams has the capability of running the half court set, and this is a half court team when you have Wally and Pierce on the floor which will happen 35 minutes a game when both are healthy.

M. Williams was the “no brainer” pick even if he somehow became a bust which I don’t think he will. Of all the players in the draft, NBA scouts were saying his pick at #22 was the true “steal” of the draft. I beieve it so and I believe time will prove that and Danny has to answer in years to come why he missed out on this kid twice.

It’s really too painful to read all this every day here. June can’t come fast enough.

Right now we can’t do anything as far as trades go, or pick in the draft till then.

What good does it do for all of this to keep hitting our heads against the wall.

If I were Doc, I’d just play

Jefferson
Green
Gomes
Rondo
Pierce

the rest of the way and not even bother with Wally and Scal

and give min out to West, Perkins & Powe

Why the surprise about Doc jerking Powe’s and our chain? I said 4 days ago that Doc’s vowing to play Powe was like consigning him to purdah. Besides which Powe lacks Veal’s many intangibles.

I’ll say this and then I’ll give it a rest for awhile. There was a guy who made billions. There was also a team that was the worst of the worst of professional teams for a long time. This guy had a “passion” for sports like many on this site. He used $$$ and bought a professional franchise and you know what, he was riducled by all in and out of sports.

They made fun of him and said he was an “easy mark”. They said he was just an ignorant fan with money, didn’t know squat, he would be a total embarrassment.

The guy’s name was Mark Cuban. The team he bought for something like $280M and is now worth about $430M are the Dallas Mavericks. The basement dwelling Mavs played for the NBA championship last year and have the best record of any team in the league this year.

I respect a lot of the opinions on this site, all that Jeff does, etc. I honestly would have more confidence in 80% of the posters on this site than I would of current Celtic management.

If I had my druthers, Mr. Brickowski could have full control of Celtic decisions and I say that not as a joke either.

I am no genius and I am 1500 miles away from Boston. I could see how the Raptors for example were vastly improved, knew that the Knicks would be better than the laughingstock that they were last year, etc. I saw and predicted many of the lousey decisions made. This tanking just makes me feel real “dirty”.

This franchise is really at the bottom of the barrel and the only direction to go is up. I hope for contiued good play by Big AL, Gerald Green shows a more complete game by the end of the year. I hope rest for Perk and I do see more potential than many give him credit. I do think he can have a decent year next year. Tony Allen is wait and see but I would love to see him play like he did right before season’s end. I am hoping for the Durant/Oden pick to come our way this June. I am hoping for better decisions to made in the future in regard to coaching, trades, draft decisions, etc.

I need to lob one last grenade Danny’s way. I do know this Telfair deal saved one year off a huge contract and I don’t discount that, but I can’t ever see how the Telfair ever compared to what could have been had with the #7.

I remember Danny doing all these pre draft workouts, etc. For him to equate like that trade at any time is crazy. Telfair is a sub par shooter, undersized and NBA scouts voted him to the starting 5 of the all worst NBA defensive players starting line-up (no joke, this really happened with SI and their interiviews with NBA scouts). Undersized, can’t play D, worse than average outside shot, what’s not to like?

I even recall Danny going over to Europe for secret pre draft look at European players. For all I know Danny may have been smoking hashish in Amersterdam and chasing topless women on the French Riveria.

I am 1500 miles away from Boston and I knew what Telfair is/was and would bring to the Celts. This has been a real head shaker of a season.

Just a few thoughts.

Does anyone really think McGrady had the flu last night? I don’t. They we’re resting his back for a more worthy opponent. Teams are laying down for them, give the win to Van Gundy for not playing McGrady.

Don’t be fooled if we start winning a few games, the team is incredibly flawed (as you all well know).

The only forward who is any threat plays center. As far as Gomes? How good could he be? We’ve won 14 games with him getting significant minutes. Scal, enough said. Powe? who knows?

Doc is a salesman who will continue to sell his bs for the rest of his life. It won’t stop once he’s let go, it will be spin control.

Everyone is going to start getting defensive and it started with Danny. Twenty six games to go.

190 games from now, Wallys contract expires. The year after next makes it sound like next week.

 As I’ve said before, expiring contacts are nice but Maglores still with Portland, PJ Brown still with Chicago and Grant Hill still with Orlando. Those guys actually play in games. Theo still has 108 games left. We can only hope some deranged GM deals for these two guys.

Someone made a comment that even Phoenix made a mistake signing Marcus Banks.

Well, here’s the spin on Phoenix. This was the first off season the Colangelos we’re not involved with building that team. Since Colangelo went to Toronto, Phoenix has not made one sound move. They need a back up point guard so they sign Marcus Banks and they pass on Rondo, Willams and the Spanish Choclate guy, who’s now in Portland and is going to end up better than Calderon and possibly just as good as Willams. The future still looks bright for Phoenix because of what Colangelo built and the trade he made with Atlanta, obtaining there #1 pick in this years draft.

BCelticfan,

I’m just curious….are you saying that Ainge “tanked” that Telfair trade just to insure more losses this year? Or that Ainge is fairly incompetant? I can bye the incompetant part. Hard to believe Ainge would be smart enough to purposely deep six a trade in June with this year in mind. Wow!!

Celty86, I just feel that Danny didn’t do his homework, period. I think it was incompetence on his part getting Telfair. Just like the Wally trade. I saw the night it happened what Wally’s salary was to be in the years to come and the goal to either get needed position talent or dump Blount’s contract didn’t happen.

I asked the minute it happened, why get a player who plays your best players position and the potential future star (GG) also played the same position? I then watched ESPN that night and they analyzed the trade and asked what are the Celtics thinking? Who would defend guys like Hamilton, Wade, Kobe? We then found out with Danny saying it was a “sidewards trade” and that was supposed to have a calming affect on the Celtic Nation.

“I don’t think the main reason DA traded Toine for Raef was to get rid of Toine. Instead, I think he was trying to find a C to complement Big Al.”

I’ll take blindly covering for DA for 500 please Alex.

Just so were on the same page, he dealt for LaFrentz the year before he drafted Jefferson to try to get a compliment for Big Al?

BCelticFan,

I hear you. The moment I heard about the trade I was puzzled as well. I was looking forward to who we might draft and instead got a lump of coal in my stocking! :(

"I hear you. The moment I heard about the trade I was puzzled as well. I was looking forward to who we might draft and instead got a lump of coal in my stocking! "

That is why I am terrified of the prospect of the Celtics not getting the top two pick and Ainge trading the rights to Noah or Wright for “Veteren”. Has Ainge ever made a good trade? Ever? I defend the guy as much as anyone on here, but the fact remains that none of his deals has ever worked out. None of them. Not once in four years has Ainge made a trade to get a veteran player that he ended up wanting to keep.

“Scotty: My bad! Just got back from having a bad cold the past week; brain obviously not back to speed. Need a smiley with a red face.”

The part that had me laughing was that a couple people posted in agreement with your premise.

Hope you’re feeling better. ;D

The trade of Toine for Raef was about the same in terms of salary and Raef (if he ever got healthy) was a better player, shooter, defender than Toine. Problem was Raef never got healthy, Danny admited to all of this, he aslo admited that he didn’t like “the hold” Toine had on the franchise. This is not some new information.
The Ricky trade was about the locker room. Banks and Blount apparently HAD to go, rumor has it Ricky HAD to go, mostly because of their negative attitudes. Ricky’s game and Paul’s games were too similar, Wally is a spot up and would, in theory, compliment Paul. The two do fine together when they’re both healthy which has been a rarity of late.
Raef for Ratliff is, now admitedly about signing Big Al and Delonte long term with the cap space cleared. Telfair was a gamble, but where people are getting it wrong is that niether Roy nor Foye would have been available to Boston had the trade not happened. A reason that the players went in the order that they did was because of the predraft garauntees surrounding the trade, please don’t fool yourselves into thinking that Roy OR Foye would be in a C’s uniform. I also do not believe that the book is closed on Telfair by a long shot, he’s still a kid and needs time to develop and MATURE.

Danny is not a perfect GM, and Coangelo is getting a little more credit than he deserves for the positive things that happened in part because of team chemistry, a good coach, and players who buy in to a fun system.

I believe in Danny, and think he’s played his cards smartly by not giving up too much for too little. If we get pick 1 or 2 expect to see a Gasol, O’Niel, or Garnet in a C’s uniform next year.

The Telfair deal is incomplete, because I fully expect us to trade Theo with a couple of young assets to get the veteran we need. LaFrentz would not have had that value. IMO, Danny misread the draft. He didn’t believe that Roy would be available there; but getting rid of LaFrentz’s contract has a lot of value.

Roy absolutely would have been there had Danny not traded. Atlanta came out and said they were taking S. Williams and they did. McHale said he was not leaving the draft without Foye and he did. Roy fell to us if not for the predraft Telfair deal. Now you can say, Danny didn’t know he would drop, but Danny made this trade before the draft so if Danny wanted any part of Roy, he should have waited until the actual pick was to be made to see if Roy was there.

On the Wally trade, Ricky maybe was a negative but true story, Rolen the star 3rd basement for the S.L. Cardinals and their manager Tony LaRussa hated each other and didn’t speak to each other form something like 4 months. The Cardinals still won the World Series. The bottom line is can they put the negativity aside and get it done on the court/field. If you are going to make the trade you need to get “value” in return.

Wally and Paul (GG too) are not a good fit. Both are best suited at small forward, Wally is out of position and slow verse shooting guards. With Blount/Davis/Banks we needed a big man who could contribute or a steady veteran point and instead we got another SF. This was horrible in regard to getting another SF on the team and not getting big man/point help (Kandi does not fit the bill as the big man help either).

Dick Vitale said last year the draft was better than many thought. Vitale is a college “homer” and you expect that kind of talk from him. However, I feel, and I believe Vitale has said this too, the upcoming draft is not going to quite live up to the hype. I think everybody sees the “franchise” players in Oden/Durant, but after that it is a good but not great draft.

I thought and still do think Noah is over rated and his stock has fallen. Noah is not an offensive threat and he is often the 4th or 5th guy on the team when it comes to offense. He will be a super player if he has a Detroit Piston type of ensomble, but to expect him to lead a lottery team like a Durant or Odon will do isn’t going to happen. In the LSU lost for example, the kid got only 4 shots the whole game.

I’ve seen Wright from KU play and at times he looks impressive. Other times he looks like an average player among 5 good Jayhawks and against Kansas State they just shut him down. I still think he will have a decent career as I do think Gay from Connecticut last year will. I don’t see Splitter being any better than Bargani and I think Bargani will be good. A guy like McRoberts will be a solid dude in the middle like Bogut from the Bucks but again I think 07’ will be a decent but not great draft after #1 and #2 are gone, assuming both come out.