Are Bloggers To Blame For Kitchen-gate?

i think this whole thing should be put in perspective, US soldiers are dying everyday in Iraq, 3 billion live on less than $2 per day…we take sports too seriously anyway and comments like this are miniscule compared to real suffering in the world…this should be a non-issue…we might as well censure what everyone says…

All you did was report what happened. If the bloggers were wrong that Max didn’t actual make the “get back in the kitchen” comment, then the orginial blogger would be at fault. All you did was merely site the source, which readers have to asess the credibility of the source.

Jeff, why in the world are you getting tweak by what anyone says on WEEI?

Furthermore, why does anyone even listen to WEEI?

If I had a dime every time Glenn Ordway said something inappropriate I could cover the costs of his meals at Davios for a year.

Max had it right earlier in the year when he gave his response about what he thought of Ordway, “FRAUD! FRAUD! FRAUD!”

He’s a joke.

Is that what this season has come to? A freakin story about a broadcast remark? Holy crap, we are in dark times my friends.

What because it was a sexist comment it was ok to joke about it. Some things should never be joked about especially in that type of forum. I would love to ask Maxwell if a white announcer made a similar comment about a black ref, how Maxwell would take it. Bottomline is he is sexist and he should have to answer for it. Joke or no joke, doesn’t matter, you just don’t say that without thinking it.

Furthermore, why does anyone even listen to WEEI? You just answered to your own question,further more I’d listen to espn’s national talk radio anyway.(thanks espn boston) ;D

Good afternoon. I have to say that I’m guilty of succumbing to the allure of this story – it was the main reason I registered today – but I have been here many times before and enjoy the features of the website. To Jeff: good job!
It’s unfortunate that this story has taken on a life of its own, when there are so many other things going on in the world other than what the Celtics broadcast team said during a boring Monday night game.
However, I do think it brings up an accountability issue with blogs (or the internet in general). Not to generalize, and certainly not to throw dirt on the work of the bloggers at this well-organized and informed website – BUT there are so many sources of junk information out there that, in today’s world, become “sources” for major mainstream news stories. Thus, this whole Maxwell thing originated from some obscure blogger who doesn’t have to respond to the same criticisms that someone like Glenn Ordway or Dan Shaughnessy would get.
I do realize how valuable it is to have these forums – if you can’t get on the radio or in the newspaper, it’s a great tool. I myself am fortunate to have a broacast forum but I am also lured to these online forums to dig up news and rumors and solicit general opinions. It’s just unfortunate that Max gets dragged through the dirt on a NATIONAL scale for a stupid comment that he’s apologizing for. All because an oversensitive blogger chose to light him up.

By the way, yeah, thank goodness for ESPN Boston in the mornings.

this thing is retarded. Max was joking. Let it go. Multiple blogs about a nothing-incident that was misinterpreted isn’t going to help kill it.

Thank God Max is black or somebody would’ve made it both sexist&racial..the fact this situation is so ridiculous sp. is the ONLY reason to cover it…Jeff was right on as usual…

It isn’t a nothing incident. He was caught joking about something he shouldn’t have been. If he would of been dropping jokes using the N word and impersonating Chris Rock, I doubt it still would be considered a nothing-incident.

I’m not calling for Max to be fired, but an apology is needed. After that the story is done.

LOL, LOL. Bloggers are all irresponsible, but the people who call sports talk radio shows— not to mention the hosts— are not? When a caller identifies himself as “Joe from Dracut” is that any less anonymous than calling yourself “Brickowski?”

Occasionally people here get their facts wrong, myself included. We all try to fix inaccuracies when we discover them. Members of the traditional media screw up just as much as bloggers, as when Fox and MSNBC reported that Barrack Obama had attended a madrassa in Indonesia.

Blog participants are just as entitled to express their opinions as Craig Ordway. Besides, this blog is much more fun than listening to WEEI, and the folks here are more knowledgable about the Celics than most of the blowhards on WEEI— and that includes Mr. Ordway.

LarBrd33 said:
  this thing is retarded. Max was joking. Let it go. Multiple blogs about a nothing-incident that was misinterpreted isn’t going to help kill it.

Again I ask what if Tommy made a similar comment about a black ref. For example, something along the lines of “he belongs back in the jungle”. Would it then be a non-issue as you say it. And let’s be real here, the comment Max made and the comment I have in quotes are on the same level of offensiveness to the offended group. It is not a non-issue nor should it be. Sexism should not be tolerated under any circumstance.

The Fox wrote

“However, I do think it brings up an accountability issue with blogs (or the internet in general). Not to generalize, and certainly not to throw dirt on the work of the bloggers at this well-organized and informed website – BUT there are so many sources of junk information out there that, in today’s world, become "sources” for major mainstream news stories."

Except with this story the bloggers got it right and reported the facts of what happened. Pretty funny how no one else in the media picked up on the story until a blogger had it (who’s doing their job exactly)???

This is just a jab by the mainstream media trying to discredit bloggers in general.

Also, how many times to writers/on-air personalities state something that is out right WRONG and never come back with corrections? Too many times to count.

….and this too will pass…the tragedy, if there is one, is the heightened sensitivity to Max as being sexist instead of assuming that he meant to be funny but his comment “missed the mark” intended.

 I wonder if Hardaway’s comments had anything to do with heightened media sensivity to a miriad of sensitive issues? Expect to hear other broadcasters similarly chastised for crossing “imaginary” boundaries.

I’m old enough to remember Jimmy the Greek. He was just expressing an opinion too— and CBS ushered him out the door so fast that the breeze broke windows. And that happened 20 years ago. It’s not as though the “PC Police” have suddenly taken over.

Yes, and this too will pass.

Speaking strictly as a Celtics Fan:(since my thoughts on the comments have already been made clear)

In a season in which no one thought it could get any worse, this happened at the worst possible time. Forget the context of the comments and your feelings on it for a moment and simply consider that a team already mired neck-deep in what can generously be called a crap season, the Celtics just didn’t need this extra negative publicity.

From that perspective, this season just got a little more sad, because this will go down in my mind as one of the worst seasons in franchise history, both on and off the court.

Moranis said

Again I ask what if Tommy made a similar comment about a black ref. For example, something along the lines of “he belongs back in the jungle”. Would it then be a non-issue as you say it. And let’s be real here, the comment Max made and the comment I have in quotes are on the same level of offensiveness to the offended group. It is not a non-issue nor should it be. Sexism should not be tolerated under any circumstance.

Tommy has said almost that exact same thing…..nobody made a big deal about it…..although he did apologize during the next game. i believe the comment came while the C’s were getting whipped by the Hawks and Tommy told mutombo (sp?) to go back to africa and hunt some lions, cause this one is over. people like over react to things people say. i agree he shouldnt have said it at that point in time, but he did…..get over it.

Brick – I’ll agree that “Joe from Dracut” and the “blowhards” on WEEI aren’t worth their weight in cow pies – and notice that I in fact complimented the quality of the posts on this website. I just think that the internet is such a DIFFERENT medium where the “personalities” who do the talking are legitimately hidden from the ire of those they offend. Whereas your classic sportswriter or radio host gets run out of town for botching something…it happens all the time. The blogger really has no one to answer to. Their job and public image is not at stake.

One thing that bugs me is the hostility that exists from the blogging community towards Bill Simmons. This guy is hanging his butt out there on a national stage and presenting an opinion – and yet bloggers constantly dig into him. We should be happy that a person writes a column that consistently talks about the CELTICS to a national subscription audience (through ESPN.com and the magazine). Sure, he has his go-to punchlines – but he’s at least putting himself out there.

I’m just sour that poor Max got rocked over something like this. Can we move on yet?

The reaction from WEEI was predictible. This type of behavior and attitude is not only acceptable there, it’s encouraged. Meanwhile, they pee their pants every time Manny Ramirez gets caught in traffic on the way to work. Also, I’m fairly convinced 90% of the hosts at WEEI don’t even watch the games.

Its just a stupid joke, everybody needs to lighten up

The blogger really has no one to answer to. Their job and public image is not at stake.

(While alot of what you said “The Fox” I completely agree with, I chose to take these 2 sentences to expound on your point. Hope you don’t mind.)

Well, blogger do have people to answer to, just not in any meaningful way. Posters come and go, it’s a fact of the internet. The blog is rarely thier paid “job”, so therefore many have nothing in terms of culpability to restrict them from posting anything they want. Most(like me) write under a pseudo-name and unless you’re extremely handy with IP tracking, you’ll never find out who they are. Hence, even less culpability. They’ll never be held accountable, in “real life” for what they say. Any backlash comes in the form of site traffic(influxes of negative posts or everyone leaving the site), which for anyone who’s done this for a while has learned to shake off in the time if takes to pour yourself a pint.

Just a random aside here, I now return you to your regularly scheduled topic. ;)

Blogs are the closest thing I’ve seen to John Start Mill’s free marketplace of ideas. Mill believed that in such a marketplace the good ideas would eventually win out over the bad ideas and I agree with him.

That’s John Stuart Mill.

I think you did make a mountain out of a molehill but some bloggers agreed with you.

Pete

The Fox,
Way to use the blog to promote your profession.
Your right, the bloggers behind the curtain, it’s an opportunity to express opinions, not professional,but an opinion. The bloggers not getting paid. The average blogger is a true hoops fan and this is there hobby. This is a great forum Jeff has, and I look forward to it everyday. Hats off to Jeff.

As for Bill Simmons, Is he not getting paid? If he states an opinion are we bloggers only allowed to state complementary remarks?
Anyone who states an opinion on this blog is going to be critiqued. That’s what makes it click, your opinion, my opinion…

Good luck on the show.

It has been blown way out of proportion. This world is too sensitive. Needs a more healthy dose of George Carlin like human and common sense.

I agree – hats off to Jeff for running this great site. I love the fact that this place exists to haggle over such issues as whether to trade Al Jefferson for Pau Gasol, whether we want to pick Oden or Durant in the draft, if Delonte West is an adequate point guard, and about whether or not DJ belongs in the Hall of Fame.

Ideally, radio would cover all of these loops just as effectively as blogs do. However, WEEI in particular, has fallen victim to trying to be too “cool” and “edgy” – resulting in shows that generally equate to 4 hours of nothing. With my own personal show, I’m trying to avoid that. I’m just starting out (this is my 3rd year), and of course I’d promote something that I believe in. I also love it when people call and start a legitimate Celtics conversation. Thank goodness. Oh yeah that’s 91.5 FM and wmfo.org between 4 and 6 on Thursdays :o)

In the case of Simmons, of course people can disagree with him. But the one time espn.com enabled comments on one of his pieces, about 13,000 people responded with mostly classless scathing criticisms – punctuated usually by references to Deadspin being better than he was. Is that called for?

Jeff,

I felt it was irresponsible yesterday, as you hadn’t heard it and then everyone went wild about it without hearing it. I understand your position though, and it’s hard to always remember to qualify things. Unlike those other blogs, you actually have readership, and as such you have much more of an imprint on the psyche of celtic nation, at least those who are avid readers on the web, and as a result I think maybe you do have more responsibility than most to add in sentences like “I haven’t heard it, so it is hard to know the context”. Because in this case, I absolutely believe that the court of public opinion would flip if they had been listening on WEEI when these comments were made.

Also, the quote you made was editorialized. As someone who was listening, Grande wasn’t giving him the proverbial Bob Lobel mulligan. There was no attempt to let him redeem himself, that’s drawing an opinion, and in my opinion it is a wrong one. They were just doing their usual banter, and I remember thinking at the time “God I hope those lines don’t find their way into the paper tomorrow”, because i knew they’d be overblown in this town without the context.

" Moranis said:
  LarBrd33 said:
this thing is retarded. Max was joking. Let it go. Multiple blogs about a nothing-incident that was misinterpreted isn’t going to help kill it.

Again I ask what if Tommy made a similar comment about a black ref. For example, something along the lines of “he belongs back in the jungle”. Would it then be a non-issue as you say it. And let’s be real here, the comment Max made and the comment I have in quotes are on the same level of offensiveness to the offended group. It is not a non-issue nor should it be. Sexism should not be tolerated under any circumstance."

No dude. It’s a non-incident. Max was screwing around putting on his Tommy Heinsohn voice. It was taken way out of context. It’d be like me joking around with my friends, putting on a Kanye West voice and saying “George Bush hates black people!”. Get over it.

It’s the chance you take when your up on the pedestal.

When I make reference to the word professional, I don’t mean they have more knowledge, I mean they are getting paid for what they say.

Send Jeff a check for the plug.

I heard the full clip [on WEEI, I randomly turned it on while trying to get my one month year old to sleep, you know boring background noise] starting with play by play by Grande through the comments, through the play by play resuming. It definately read a lot worse than it sounded, but my take doesn’t change. It seemed pretty clear that Max was trying to change his voice and imitate someone else, in which case he would be mocking the views he’s being criticized for having. He was awful at the delivery. The next thing Max and Sean say is how much Violet’s officiating has improved, right after the comment.

I stand by my feelings laid out in the original thread after hearing it live, but if you get the chance, you should listen to it with about 30 seconds on both sides of the comments. The quote feels a bit cherry picked.

There should be no question whether or not Jeff did the right thing here… the question should be why such a non-story was legitimized by WEEI’s Lucifer-in-Chief, Jason Wolfe by suggesting that Max apologize. The issue likely would have died if he told the Boston Herald reporter for his article this morning a simple “No comment”. Instead he admits there is wrongdoing here, and the story becomes twice as big.

We seem to be focused on what was said and have completely dismissed the fact that Max was heckling Violet for a “blown” call. What is so derogatory about suggesting that Violet go back to what she probably is more proficient in doing (especially in view of her blown call)? Is it unreasonable to suggest that women spend more time in the kitchen than men? Or that women are likely better cooks than men?

  Why is that a “sexist” comment and therefor “insensitive” and derogatory? Are refs that immune from censorship? Male or female, when they blow a call they should expect criticism.

I have just 2 comments on this.

1. I really don’t care. He made a mistake and apologized, let’s get on with life.

2. Violet Palmer is by far the worst official in all basketball. I cringe everytime I see her at any game I watch. If she weren’t a woman and a black should would have been fired long ago. Just my opinion.