Peter May: It Is All Danny's Fault

Well…he’s kinda right. BUT, only because Danny has completed his ‘vision’ yet. This entire process is one that is supposed to be wait-and-see. Give it time Peter May. We may be a mess right now, but there’s no turning back, and nothing we can do about it, so suck it up and enjoy the rest of the season.

I think it’s extremely hard to place blame in this situation. I know fans, analysts and members of the media all look for a scapegoat, but I’m not sure if it’s any one individual. Sure, Danny could have better evaluated some situations, Doc could use players differently and perhaps some of the guys could have worked a bit harder. However, it’s the sum of the whole that makes up a team, and for whatever reason, this team is simply not that good.

Everyone seems to recognize it; now it’s time to see what they can do to correct it.

Peter May just need to write something in his Sunday column, my point he is contradicting what he has said in the past about this team. Peter was the one in the beginning who welcomed having the kids play. Peter also thought that Danny’s plan of rebuilding was the way to go.

Why has Peter changed that now?

I felt that Bill Simmons article in ESPN was right on the money.

Either way this team’s vision should stay that course that its presently in and we really need to see what happens to this team after the season ends.

i agree with roy hobbs – how can you not see that rivers blatantly sucks? this is why peter may is only an adequate writer. the fact that danny apparently doesn’t see that doc sucks is a huge strike against him though. danny probably deserves to lose his job just for keeping doc so long (and ruining last and this year in the process)….but we have to ride doc out this year, it’s our best chance to get oden or durant.

From May’s article
 “And that is part of the problem going forward, because when (or if) Ainge does deal any of these guys, they’re likely going to prosper in their new environment, if for no other reason than they won’t be playing with each other anymore.”
————————————————————

You’re partially right, Peter….they’re likely to prosper because they’ll be playing for an NBA coach.

may is a coward. he’ll completely go back on everything he says once we’re winning.

i agree with peter…i do think that our players are just too young to compete at a respectable level in this league, and if you absoloutely HAVE to find someone to blame, i guess you’d put that on the gm…not the coach.

i feel that doc, like 75% of the coaches in this league, is simply average. if you give him a 45 win team (like the one we had w/ payton, davis, walker 2 years ago) , doc will win you 45 games. if you give him a 15 win team that is made up of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year players, doc will win you 15 games. he’s nothing special as an nba coach, but i don’t think he sucks.

the only surprise from may’s column is it took 3 months for him to print what some here knew was true in november:

THE ROSTER WAS POORLY CONSTRUCTED FROM THE OUTSET!

just as it was when the ‘05-’06 season began with a PG rotation of west, banks, dickau, greene.

there is plenty of blame to go around, but the celts have not begun a season with a realistic chance to make the playoffs (since ainge took over ’03).

who’s fault is that?

I think that the most important point that May makes is that you don’t see young teams grow together and become winning teams, without major changes taking place. I think that’s a fairly accurate observation. He’s also dead on about the C’s young players. I doubt that other teams think as highly about the C’s young stable as DA does. This year is a lost cause, but in the off-season Ainge needs to decide who the keepers are and ship the rest out for parts that fit better. Of the current group (this years TBD first round pick excluded), if I had to pick 3 young guys to keep, it’d be Jefferson, West and Rondo.

I feel like a broken record on this subject. Has everyone forgotten how good the team looked a while back before the Pierce/Wally/TA injuries? We had that little 5 game winning streak, remember? I think we were just starting to gel, some of the young fellas were playing really well and Pierce was leading. Jefferson breaking out? I just dont believe we are that bad with our guys healthy. Next year with everyone back, a key player or two added, and EVERYTHING Danny has said comes true. 8)

well, to me peter (bad word) may is just (bad word) writer. he’s a (bad word) hack. it makes sense though. the reporters for a (bad word) nba team may as well be just as (bad word) as the the team they are trying to (bad word) cover.

i dont think danny caused injuries to paul, wally, theo, perk, al, delonte . . . but he did hire doc

Danny screwed up 2 yrs by letting

O’B coach,by bringing back Walker and NOT doing then what he IS doing now-get a top pick by hitting rock bottom(even though he’s lucky PP got hurt)..a top 5 pick and back to back summers with expiring contracts bode well for PP,TA,West,Gomes and AL to get help….2 more summers

this is how danny can redeem himself:

- right before the trade deadline trade jefferson, green, delonte and ratliff for gasol. gasol IS that good, he and pierce are both top 20 players

-keep doc as coach for the rest of the season, even with a now excellent roster and two legit stars we will not end up with 30 wins with doc as coach

-fire doc at the end of the season, hire a real nba coach like fratello, stan van gundy etc.

-with our crappy record we will still get a high pick, maybe even a top 2 pick, draft a star, the draft is loaded.

next year we win at least 50 games. gasol and pierce will be maybe the top tandem in the east. danny, do this and all is forgiven.

Although very young, DA has assembled a group of players far more athletic and talented(if potential wise) than he inheirited.
DA did not create the cap hell the team has been in for years—and through subtle dealings has looking pretty good going into the next couple of years.
It isn’t DA fault that free agents don’t want to play in Boston—except low level guys that are willing to play most anywhere.
DA did not injure half the team this year!
Prior to PP and TA going down, guys like AJ were begining to come on,DW & RG starting to play the way we knew they could—and I believe we’d have been in the thick of the EC race!
All that said, we’re in a great position to get a super draft pick-which is what you need these days to compete for a title—-I mean even if we had made it to the finals, which of these teams do you think we could beat this year for a championship—-SA, Dallas, Phoenix, Miami(w/Shaq)?
The future is looking brighter and brighter,despite what is happening on the court right now—so let’s not get TOO short sighted!!!!

lol. he is an average coach. people sit here and say “he sucks” because he failed to live up to the unrealistic expectations that were placed on this team at the start of the year. even before pierce got hurt, this team would’ve struggled to win 38 games.

you could replace doc with any number of coaches in this league and we’d be in the same position that we’re in now.

mroden, I understand your thoughts on getting gasol, but AJ should not be considered part of the equation.

I can’t think of someone who’s opinion I value less than Peter May. The ultimate tool..

cos – unfortunately you have to give up jefferson to get gasol – and i believe it is worth it. jefferson could be an all star – gasol already is one, actually i believe he is maybe a top 10 player in the league. i dont think jefferson will ever be on that level. neither do i believe green will be.

I think that blogs and the overall growth of both TV and the Internet have made writers like May dinosaurs. He obviously sees himself as some sort of Peter Gammons-esque figure, interpreting his secret knowledge as a team insider and using it to shape public opinion. But he has no secret knowledge that we as fans do not now possess, and based on his past writings he has no credibility.

gasol is not that good imo . . anyone see jamal tinsley dribble through his legs last night . . that shouldnt happen to an all star . . he plays no d, and al is 22 . . . i say keep al let someone else take gasol and his huge contract

Must be Ainge is the bad flavor of the day. This is the type of crap that says that we don’t need to tank, we must show the A D D types that we can win and we will win. People need to get over the situation we are in because it isn’t a situation that could be controlled.

May is a joke.

It’s difficult to take him seriously. He’s constantly negative on the Cs. He always does a HUGE story on them, when times seem the worst.

Oh yeah, and he continually gets his facts wrong.

Not that May would mention it, but the Cs are at a transition point. DA either makes a big deal, ala Gasol, at the trading deadline/in the offseason or lands one the big two in the draft.

If DA fails to do either then he deserves whatever comes his way.

- Mk

May’s constant negativity towards the C’s probably has something to do with the fact that the C’s haven’t been good since the early 90’s. He’s a sportswriter, he doesn’t have to be a fan or a cheerleader for the team. That’s not his job.

An average Coach?

I guess Peter forgot about the way this team came out of training camp. A discombobulated group that resembled anything but a team.

An average Coach? Who could not identify the proper point guard until 43 games into the season.

Even if Peter was right, who wants an average coach?

Make changes in the off season. That includes the Globe, hire Jeff.

I wouldn’t even consider trading Al for Gasol even up. Al is 5 years younger and already a superior rebounder, especially on the offensive boards.

Danny’s biggest mistake, is his on going support for Doc. But since management deceided to tank the season, Doc is their coach. Next season Doc will be long gone before the opening tip of the first game. (I hope!)

I laugh at those that think a simple changing of the guard at coach is going to change the Celtics fortunes. While a house cleaning is probably in order, the Celtics problems extend far beyond their coaching situation. Its plain and simple, as of right now, the Celtics do not have a competitive NBA roster. That’s the biggest issue. If you swapped the Celtics Roster, with say the Spurs, or the Mavericks, and had Doc as the Coach, you’d have one of the best teams in the league. One of two things needs to happen. Either the Celtics young players have to get drastically better, or they need to get new players. And please stop with all the talk about a coach “developing” players. Lets give all the good/great players in this league a little credit, their NBA coaches didn’t make them. Their talent, and own personal work ethic is what makes them great, not their coach.

I’ll repeat what I said in the other thread.

There is plenty of blame to go around for this fiasco. A big chunk of the blame has to go to Rivers. Half the time they look like a pickup team out there, especially on defense. They started 10-14 against a bunch of creampuff teams. They should have been 15-5.

Another chuck of the blame goes to Ainge. First, he hired Rivers. Second, his trades and free agent signings have been a disaster, particularly the first Walker trade. The first Walker trade saddled them with LaFrentz and his terrible deal, which eventually cost them a #7 pick. The Blount signing was also a disaster that effectively cost them Ricky Davis and saddled them with Szczerbiak’s terrible contract. The Ricky Davis trade was the least bad of Ainge’s moves, but I can’t believe they kept Kedrick Brown (the player Cleveland wanted) instead of Eric Williams. If Williams had stayed, Jim O’Brien might still be here.

A third chunk of Blame goes to Grousbeck. First, he hired Ainge. Secondly, I beieve that his bean counters are the reason why Rivers is still here. Thirdly, he and his marketeers have effectively turned the Celtics into an expansion frqanchise with their tacky game presentations that turn basketball into a TV game show. It’s so bad that I’m embarrassed for the frachise.

There is NO HOPE until they hire a competent coach. Frankly I think the best thing that could happen is for someone like Steve Belkin to buy the team, fire everyone except Clifford Ray, Leo Papile and the trainers, and start over.

I gave Danny Ainge a free pass for 3 years, because I like the Vision, and I respect the young players he has brought in. I was always a little leary that he was sitting on the fence of remaining competitive versus tearing it all down. But now he has torn it all down, which will bring us the top draft pick we need, plus he has managed to keep Paul Pierce on the roster.

But this brings us to the stubborn refusal to replace Doc Rivers, who utterly failed last year, and topped that with a disasterous 2007. It benefits no one to keep a coach who cannot teach fundamentals like the pick and roll or a zone defense or defensive rotations to a young team. Worse still, Doc is clueless with rotations and in-game management. Doc Rivers has simply got to go. If Ainge won’t act, he has to go also.

Doc Rivers sucks as a coach not necessarily b/c of his record, but b/c of his complete inability to in-game coach properly. I could comment on this for 2 paragraphs easily but I won’t.

Yeah Peter May apparently just had to write something, anything, to keep from being bored. I don’t think the roster was constructed poorly b/c that is what Danny wanted. Had the Iverson over the summer deal gone though, we wouldn’t have had the logjam at PG and we would have had a pretty good team then. But, you have to respect that since the situation wasn’t in our favor Danny didn’t just “do the trade to do it.” Quite frankly if we get a top 2 pick this year, and considering the quality we’ve managed from 20th picks, we’ll be in good shape in the offseason.

To me, if Danny decides to keep Doc for next season then I’d agree to fire everyone involved. However, if he cans Doc then it will have paid off a bit to have kept him around.

suck is a bad word? you americans are really conservative arent you ? :/

Oh Yeah of Little Faith. We will all be on the same page next year as the team turn things around. most will think Danny and Doc are great at their jobs and should be named coach and executive of the year. this is the same crowd that wanted to hang Al jefferson and Tony Allen from the nearest basketball Goal. I can’t get serious over your rantsing this time either. Things are getting better you just wait and see.

Ainge has done a 60 good but 40 bad. But if we get Oden or Durant and get rid of Rivers that could be 90 good and only 10 bad(and thats ok since no gm is perfect)

Has Danny drafted well with the choices he had?? I think he has done an excellent job(cept for marcus banks). In three years you will most likely have one bad apple, so danny has done a pretty good job.

But his signings have been horrific.

Like i said if we get oden or durant everything can be forgiven. (if not , lets not forget this is a huge draft year anywhere from 1-9 players would be a good pick.)

you guys know the lakers have had trouble guarding the pick and roll this year, right? you think it’s a result of bad coaching? or maybe it’s due to the fact that they’ve got issues at the PG and Center positions….in fact, there’s quite a few teams in the league that have trouble covering the pick and roll, which is why you see it run in virtually every single game no matter who’s playing.

OhioGreen, Ainge didn’t inherit a team that was that horrible, salary cap-wise. His one bad contract, Vin Baker’s, luckily was voided because of Baker’s drinking. It did leave the Cs with three years of $5 million of dead money on the books, but in the crazy world of NBA dinances, that isn’t a cap killer.

The cap cloggers that hurt this team were the two crippled stiffs acquired by Ainge in trades, in Raef and Suckbiak. It cost the Cs a 7th pick to get out from under one year of Raef’s deal, which cost the team a prospective player like Brandon Roy or Rudy Gay. (Fellow posters, please don’t respond that Roy would not have been available at 7 because Minny was picking him. They only did that to extort $$$ from the Blazers, who wanted this somewhat local player. Foye was Minny’s guy all along, and if they tried to pull that extortion stuff with the Cs, Ainge would have been happy with Foye if the Wolves picked Roy).

Ainge screwed up with the Raef trade, and it’s been all downhill from there. I still can’t believe that there are any AInge supporters left on this board. His “assets” can not win ONE game in a monthlong period without Pierce. Plenty of teams lose their superstar player and manage to win a couple of games.

Here’s how pathetic Ainge’s team is. Even with pierce, this team has managed to get a victory this season over exactly ONE team that is a .500 club, in the Pacers.

The only two teams to lose to the Pierce-less Celtics are the Griz, with the worst record in the league, and the Blazers, with the 6th worst.

Who gives a squat what Peter May says or thinks, he like the other sport writers are fair weather friends. When the clouds clear and the sun is shinning he will jump on board.

Danny’s big mistake other than Doc was not tearing it to the ground on day one and start over.

Keeping Doc till end of season is a wise move. Hard to swallow, yes, but necessary for the future years.

you know, now that i think about it, i’m kind of excited to fire doc next year and bring a “winning coach” like mike fratello or lenny wilkens. i mean with one of those guys at the helm and a healthy paul pierce we’re a lock for 60 wins easy.

Peter May is right about that young teams do not start at the bottom and rise to the top completely intact. It has never happened, probably never will. So, I suppose he’s a tool for stating that? Danny must have felt that with Pierce he had the one veteran that could carry all his boatload of young kids to the promised land. How’s that working out for you D? Also, May is not a tool for stating the obvious. Danny values his kids higher than everyone else in the league. That is a big problem because now Ainge is stuck with these guys so they better show something. Ian Thomsen of SI.com wrote a similar article the other day in his mag. He covers a lot of C’s games but I suppose he’s a tool also, for stating his opinion. Danny’s got to be praying every night for those ping pong balls to come up green in May to save his but from this mess. This team is so badly constructed even despite the injuries, it’s pathetic!

well peter, if as you write the players dont s#ck, then how can it all be danny ainge’s fault? everyone in the boston media likes doc personally and they do not like danny. so they will never blame doc, and will find any reason to blame danny. danny has done a good job, not great, and has definitely made some mistakes and some bad judgment calls on players. but doc is one of the worst basketball coaches i have ever watched. bringing in two young point guards was not a great move by danny, and this team has had its share of bad luck that no team could overcome – but doc rivers does nothing to help this team.

Actually Triple OT you’re incorrect. Vin’s entire contract counted against the C’s cap, even though they came to a buyout agreement. The sixers just bought out Webber, but the value of his entire contract still counts against the cap. So Ainge inherited a roster with 3 Max contracts on it (Baker, Walker and Pierce)

Sorry, Lo, but you’re the one who is wrong. Only the negotiated amount (or an applicable buyout amount) counts against the cap. See Larry Coon’s FAQ #60.

And if a player who is bought out signs elsewhere for more than the minimum, 1/2 of the excess over the minimum is credited to the team that bought the player out, both for cap purposes and in real dollars.

Why are people still talking about Vin Baker’s contract and how Danny ONNNLYYY took “3 max contracts” on when he took the helm?? People are trying to vindicate Ainge when in reality he traded for Raef LaFrentz who had 2-3 more years on his contract than Antoine. Ainge says he is trying to get more athletic but he takes on players that can’t even stay on the court(Raef, dickau, Wally) at no matter how expensive their injured bodies cost. What Peter May is conveying is that when it comes down to it, this is his doing and as a GENERAL MANAGER, when your team stinks as bad as we do it is believed that the team is just not being managed right. I’m sorry but last year we had Dan Dickau, Olowakandi, Scalabrine, and Raef LaFrentz on the same team….If you were GM your telling me your totally sane aquiring the top 4 stiffs in the league on the same team???? Wake up people, this is Ainge’s first GM position and people get their noses sooo brown over him and realize his best move was getting Al Jefferson, West, and convincing Pierce to stay….Thats about it for the first 4 years.

We tend to blame the fact tha we had players like Baker, Olokowandi, Dickau. Scal, Jiri, La frenz, Mihms, Bassy, etc. Etc. etc. Didnt we get those players voluntarily or were there imposed upon us by the league??

We get into bad situations voluntarily and then we get into worse situations in trying to get out of the first bad situation and then we blame the awful players that were and are playing for us now? Ask yourself: Why did we get into those situations where the remedy was worse or as bad as the initial malady?? Oh! I know who’s at fault ; I forgot: Its the Refs and Stein! Those are the culprits that we have such bad teams and cant win more than we lose. thats it. Please, gimme a break! We are what we are cause we went into it head first. Who (are)is to blame? A lot of decision-people are to blame. Take your picks.

I’m on the fence on this one.
 
1. I think DA has done very good on finding talent thru the draft
2. He takes too much heast for the “side moves” he has made, which I don’t think they are so a big deal…RDavis for Wally..c’mon, was that such a horrible thing? really…
3. Two horrible moves are a)fail to hire a winner(coach) b)..and this one might sting some,…failed to pull the trigger on some of our youngs when their value is mistakenly high(on this particular case, GG)

…but yes, DA is on the clock. And if we are talking lottery next February, he has to either go, or make THE TRADE…and I mean the big one…go for broke…

Coco said, “RDavis for Wally..c’mon, was that such a horrible thing? really…”

Capwise,longtermwise, I guess you’d call that a very horrible thing. What would you call it? How many butt-slapping lockerroom guys do we need?

What a bleak thread. :’(
Bring on the draft!

well, if you are going to bring up Capwise, longterwise to the conversation, then lets include the rest of the players on that package…..only one(Wally) is playing for the Cs while Mini is stuck with Blount, RDavis, JReed and couldn’t re-sign(luckly) MBanks….so, yeah when you bring up the whole picture it really wasn’t such a horrible thing

Triple OT I stand corrected. Thanks for setting me straight Brickowski.

I am one who’s consistently blamed Doc for our problems since last season, but after going to a couple of games this year, I have to change my views a little bit. It’s not just Doc, but the whole organization sucks. The ownership group claims to be fans but each game turns into a bigger and louder circus.

The way I see it, Doc’s worth 10 losses and the injuries another 10. That still doesn’t make this a very good team and that’s on Danny. He took a team that was one win away from the finals and blew it up. In hindsight, it doesn’t look like that was a good idea. Get Bird back here, give him part of the team if you have to, and put Danny in charge of the draft and that’s it.

Here’s to hoping the bad luck stops this year and the ping pong balls bounce in our favor.

Peter May would have quite a resume if he could run another Celtics GM out of town.

1) When the team was moderately healthy and put together a solid winning streak, most of us bloggers were ecstatic, calling for an easy path to the Atlantic crown.

2) Since the mass of injuries and the subsequent horrendous losing spell, everyone here is now either suicidal, or more likely, homicidal.

3) To suggest we should dump some of the youngsters (none in particular, just some of those from the current group) in lieu of some older vets seems to be a bit counterproductive. Save for Rajon, aren’t most of these guys now short veterans? AJ, Perk, DW, TA, Ryan, GG ??? So you trade these guys now? The ones we have persevered with, who we have given precious minutes to (yes, despite the Coach not planning on doing so). The same ones we watched grow before our eyes?…..grow up to be young NBA veterans? You want to place these guys on the Spurs and then tell us how they would blend in seamlessly onto a championship caliber club? You’re such a genius Mr. May.

4) Look, at the beginning of the season:
None of us knew what Al Jefferson could become……..now we know.
None of us knew if Tony Allen would return to, or exceed, his early form……now we know.
None of us knew if Ryan Gomes would make progress or would merely be scouted and controlled by the opposing coaching staff…..now we know.
None of us knew if Rajon Rondo would ever get a chance to come off the bench to show what he can do…….now we know.
None of us knew if D West would continue his tough, hard-nosed style of play and maintain a reasonable semblance of health……….now we know.

So while everyone moans and complains (do you hear me Peter May), I feel as though we have learned an awful lot. Most of it is very valuable knowledge indeed.

Do we need a bit more talent? Sure. Do we need a new coach? Sure. But if winning the Atlantic was a reasonable goal to some early this season, I suggest that it will be much more within reach, and beyond, next year with a healthy roster.

Let’s face it. The double edged sword we call team injuries has shed a bright light on this team. Just an opinion from a long time C’s fan.

Come on, DrD. The Celtics had about as much chance of winning the Atlantic Division under Rivers as I had of being elected Pope. Didn’t the pathetic 2-6 record during the preseason give you a hint of things to come?

It is on Danny! I said it as soon as the Telfair deal went down, M Williams who eventually went to the Nets will eventually be a top 5 point in this league. I take him over Telfair and Rondo any time.

Finally, the Nets are given this kid a chance to get some PT and rest Kidd some. He was averaging about 12 pt/ 5 assists as a back up the last half dozen games or so. Well, tonight he went off for 18.

Danny blew the heck out of this past draft with the #7 deal and the Minny trade. It is on Doc too, but I think both need to leave town at the end of the season. Fresh management blood will help.

jb/celticsstuff…I couldn’t agree more…Danny’s job is to bring #17 and I think he’s on track, except for injuries which are tricky business…
The Celts should as is have a top 2 pick and then we shall see how it all falls into place…Another scenario, Gasol…yet a third, a healthy Wally for???…questions, but all in all, this should be the year, shall we call it, of Enlightenment…Hah!…(I through that in for Brick:)

ok, honestly do any of you even watch the celtics play for real? I love how the first thing u do is blame the coach or ainge when we cant win. Its great cus u clearly know nothing about basketball at all. If u watch the games u would see that the celtics are playing like S#it. You have a few players that play well on different nights. They havent played good as a team at all, and thats not cus the coach or ainge its cus of them and the injuries to everyone. Peirce went down just after that 5 game winning streak they had which i believe was a pretty good accomplishment for such a young team that looked like they were gonna start being a good team till pierce went down..And now about doc rivers… you can cry complain and blame him all you want but the fact of the matter is no coach can win with this team right now..and if u think that your a freakin moron. With no PP and the rest of the injuries and the amount of players in the starting lineup that are under the age of 24 give me a freakin break how can u expect to win with that…so keep on crying and blaming everyone else but your not gonna win with what we have healthy at the time. Do you honestly expect all these players to be superstars overnight. There not lebron james.. They take time to learn and progress. T-mac took a few years, look at chauncey billups and even gilbert arenas none of them were this good there first few years. Look at the way AJ TA and gomes have been playing and even dwest and green u should be happy that they have taken huge strides…i personally think we would be top of our division if all our players have stayed healthy and AJ and TA have stepped up like they did…but then again would they have stepped up if pierce went down..prob not..and if u give up on bassy and GG at this time your a idiot too…theyre both still under 21 and PG is prob one of the hardest positions to play at that age…im not giving up on anyone yet but u guys go ahead and cry about everything…but i dont feel like suffering another billups or even a tmac when he left the raptors. damn i dont wanna give up on our young guys just yet.. i do believe doc needs to find a way to shorten the rotation and thats about it…once he finds the right rotation i think we will be fine..u saw how he coached when he had the celts the first year and should have beat the pacers but that was with many experiences veterans and GP running the show…but whatever we will be there and i hope we start winnning when PP gets back but i also hopes everyone else wins too cus i still want that pic of durant or oden. But winning is the best thing we can do..but alright, im out… aight lataaa

P.S. btw i happened to really like Ricky D. I wish we had him instead of wally…he was nothing but a team player with the celts hes hardly ever hurt hes fun to watch and the teamates loved him..thats what u want with ur team in my opinion but i guess thats just me..He was only with the team for what 1 and a half years
i say bring him back but whatever aight im out lataaaaa

Im starting a “RICKY DAVIS FOR PRES CAMPAIGN”…who wants in?

I hate to be a wishy washy middle of the roader, but I’d give Ainge a C grade. Strictly on his draft decision making. His trades have been bad to fair, but in context with 30 other GM’s, he’s really quite mediocre. Except for Detroit, Toronto,Phoenix, and Dallas no one has made a difference. The other very good teams have been lucky enough to have drafted well with top picks. Toronto gets a good grade for rolling the dice on Int’l players, when it has become obvious that Americans didn’t see the beauty of livin in Canada. The other 3 have reached the top echelon without a top 3 pick, but managing their cap well, and judiciously signing free agents.
   Look at A Walker and tell me that Ainge did not do the right thing getting rid of a guy who had to dominate the ball in order to be a contributor. Raef’s injury situation is not what it was when we got him. At Dallas he was at least serviceable. However, we clearly lost out talent wise with Wally for Blount/Davis, and the Telfair trade has the all the markings of Portland deja Vu. He’s given the job and then becomes 3rd string. The recent injuries have distorted reality, but this team is still marginally mediocre. Its tough on fans to get to January and be thinking next season. High schools have longer seasons than that. Maybe its DA just doing what these kids are used to.

i like danny and the job he is doing. his biggest mistake is doc and it is a big one. i think danny has been influenced by having played for kc jones and doc reminds him of kc. both were father figures, familymen, and got people to put maximum effort out. they are both ameliorative.however kc had the players with brains and experience that could think on the floor and didnot need his intervention.doc cannot think thru a game situation. he can analyze it for tv,but he gets lost when he is responsible. it seems he is afraid to hurt the vet’s feelings,i.e. wally, scal,pp. danny’s biggest move is going to be the next coach he hires. they don’t need someone like 75% of the coaches or a nice guy to play golf with. the c’s need someone approximating red- someone who wants a tough team, who has a good fundamental plan and sticks to it, has mean streak, who isn’t afraid to take a t for the team and who eats sleeps basketball.

The only thing Ainge has clearly failed at is his failure to make a big trade. It’s been his plan all along to trade numerous young players and a big contract for a star player. Several have gotten away: Boozer, Iverson, probably Gasol, etc. But, it takes 2 to tango. He can’t force a trade. All he can do is continue to stockpile “assets.” I’m just worried that by the time he’s got the right chips and a good trade comes along, it will be too late for Pierce. That would [bad word]. ;)

This is a team that can’t affored injuries. And most NBA teams are that way. Shaq was out in Miami and they are 5 games under 500 last I looked. But with the Celts that can’t afford to be missing PP. Then you add in the injuries to Wally, who could fit in a as a go-to scorer in a pinch, TA, Theo, who Danny brought in for interior defense (I thought he played 50-60 games), Perk and Al. Both Perk and Al had surgery in the summer and Perk had had the plantar fasciitis which doesn’t want to go away and Al with his appendix surgery. This is an amazing amount of injuries for any team.

The other thing to consider is that, although Danny would like to make a deal, no one was willing to give him much for the kids. One thing that Wyc has repeatedly stated is that the Celts were going to build through the draft with youth. So if we take it on the chin this year, it should pay dividends down the road. Better pick this season in a draft that is loaded, and proably more value in kids who have had time to develop.

I’m disappointed like every other Celtic fan, but to tear everything up now and start over is how we got here. We keep switching direction and taking 2 steps back. We probably taken 3 steps backwards this year due to the injuries, but once those heal the extra value of the draft pick and the PT gained by the kids might just make up for it.

Someone else mentioned that when PP got hurt we were 10-14, had just had a 5 game win strak and was playing pretty well. We had a solid rotation and the 2nd unit was pretty set. Then all the injuries hit.

Dr_Awesome said:

" i mean with one of those guys at the helm and a healthy paul pierce we’re a lock for 60 wins easy."

- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I have wanted Ainge and Doc to succeed very badly, as have we all. I have confidence that Doc is a good for our young players right now and is still worth keeping at this stage for sure. The Telfair trade really makes me doubt he knows what he’s doing. As it increasingly unfolds how not good he is, and the fact that we were going to have a good shot at Rondo and other end of first round PG talent, it doesn’t make any sense. Having a Roy or Gay on our roster right now would be so much better it isn’t funny. If we hadn’t had all these injuries, we would have much better trade options with one of those guys. Is it just me, or do other people think he really should have known better to make that deal?

I agree more or less with Brickowski on this one, for as you can see I too have soured on Ainge. I’m just not buying it anymore. What sealed it for me was in the offseason when he couldn’t pull off the youngs-for-vet trade; I realized we were in fact over-valuing our youth. Ainge certainly was.
May clearly is overselling Rivers to buttress his argument against Ainge, and for that I don’t necessarily blame him. But yes, he’s too easy on Rivers.
As Brickowski eloquently states, there’s plenty of blame to go around (there ALWAYS is in most cases). But at the end of the day, it’s on Ainge. This is the team he’s built, including the (bad word) coach. I’m pretty much done with him.

I would also add that, for all the criticism this room (particularly me) has leveled at Peter May, he’s been right more often than he’s been wrong. He may be a curmudgeon with his own little agenda, but I think he’s more perceptive than we’ve given him credit for being.

You can keep playing Peter May’s game, or you can keep playing Danny Ainge’s game. Please tell me, who do you think’s going to win their game. May’s game, frankly, has been to skeptically analyze Ainge’s moves, partly based on Celtics history (perhaps unfair), partly based on NBA history (perfectly fair). It was May, early and often, who openly questioned whether building through a youth movement (and countless questionable trades and free-agent signings) were the best way to go, and he simply said he had history on his side.
And, at the beginning of this season, he called this a poorly constructed team so don’t hang its potential lack of success all on Rivers, and he’s more o less spot-on. You can rag on Rivers all you want (and please, do), but he’s playing the hand he’s been dealt, and even when healthy, it’s not a very good one.
And so the long, sad march toward Seacaucus resumes, ever earlier.
When will it end? I believe, regrettably I might add, when Ainge is gone.

P.S. One of the sad realizations I’ve come is that May can have an agenda AND be right all at the same time. Sad, but true.