Too Much (Gasol Rumor)

Half this site agrees with Pierce and his ‘trade the pick for a veteran’ mentality….yet when an offer comes up everyone is insulted and thinks Green and Jefferson are too much. SO WHICH IS IT??!!? The Celtics had the chance to trade for veterans in both Boozer and A.I. without giving up BOTH of these guys and didn’t do it…now Pierce and fans have the nerve to say we should trade the pick for veterans….but only if we dont give up any talent. Gimmie a break.

I think you completely missed the point. I think we can agree that trading aj7 and gerald is DIFFERENT than trading the pick IN THE OFFSEASON when we already know our draft position (which is what pierce was referring to). Trading away the talent the celtics have been developing for the past couple of years will only keep them at mediocrity.

If Danny makes this trade by giving up both Jefferson and Green for Gasol …….. I’m done with this team…..

Danny leave things alone until the end of the season. No need to make a trade now for the sake of making one. “PERIOD”

So let’s trade Al for Pau and basically get a few extra points and give up about 5 more rebouds per game. That makes sense.

danny would be a stone cold idiot to do this deal now especially if he throws in a number 1. I might just completely quit as a celtic fan if that happens. Nobody talks about all the games gasol has missed with injuries. If he can’t win games in Memphis how is he going to help us win games in Boston? Stay the course and then do your dealing in the off season.

I meant to add that I put no stock in these regional papers who print rumores that are 2 weeks old . The writers are also notorious homers.

This should serve as a wake-up call to the kool-aid kids (I apologize but I wasn’t sure what we had decided as the formal nicknames for both factions of celtics fans):

No team in the league is going to trade an all-star player (Gasol, KG, etc.) for anything less than Jefferson and the 2007 pick (unprotected). Gerald Green gets you nothing at this point.

Here in Boston we regard AJ as being a young kid with tremendous upside (and deservedly so). But let’s face facts. Although he has soft hands and a variety of post-up moves, Al has a number of obvious deficiencies. Most notably, he has a poor build for a PF/C, sluggish motor, limited leaping ability and mediocre quickness which renders him a significant defensive liability. I know someone will whip out Al’s rebounding stats but I contend that his numbers are grossly inflated by Pierce’s absence. In fact, I contend that the majority of Al’s rebounds are uncontested.

Bottom line, I agree with Jeff. If this is what it takes to trade for a stud, let’s continue to tank. Al would truly blossom if he could play alongside a dominant, physical presence (Oden). Then he could play a more finesse game which more accurately suits his style.

Give me ping-pong balls please!

…and how good would memphis be in like 3 years…

This trade basically boils down to Jefferson and Green and our shot at Oden/Durant/Noah. That makes no sense. You gotta know when to hold em, and now is that time.

Bad deal. We give up our 2 best young players and get a guy who will then basically get us to the tail end of the lottery. Danny can’t think this is a good move. If it gets done, this is Wyc’s doing so he can put a few more people in the seats on the way to a 35 win season and Tyler Hansbrough. Awful.

People who don’t know anything about basketball or the NBA shouldn’t be be allowed to write articles on those topics.

Look, everyone knows that Jerry West is under orders from Michael Heisley to dump salary. That means that Gasol, Mike Miller and Cardinal are being peddled around the league.

Gasol is going to Chicago or possibly Orlando (for Grant Hill’s expiring deal and another goodie or two).

Miller and Cardinal are bing shopped literally everywhere, so it’s difficult to predict where they might go.

pick 15 2004 pick 19 2005 x Gasol (pick 3)? Good deal! Make the trade! I love this trade!

I can tell you from here in Memphis that Al Jefferson is very undervalued around here. I attribute that to the lack of exposure the C’s get; Especially down here in the south. It’s surprising because Al is from here, but even that doesn’t make up for the fact he’s only here once a year. Add that to the fact that the C’s only get one or two nationally televised games. So, if you don’t have the ‘Pass’, you just don’t know who Al Jefferson is. Too bad, because he is going to be in the caliber of a Gasol and that deal one for one is really a pretty good deal.

Jim Jones lol.

Isn’t gasol as limited (if not more so) as jefferson defensively? and at 5 times the salary? We should build around a defensive big! I like Oden. I like Okafor. I like Noah (in the right spot in the draft).

Mr. Po,

I stand behind my original assessment of AJ’s rebounding ability. He is an average rebounder, at best, who happens to play on a grossly undersized starting five. If Perk and/or Pierce were healthy and playing at full strength, Al’s rebound numbers would drop significantly.

Like I said earlier, I like Al’s potential. But the kool-aid kids treat him like he is an all-star. With Bosh, Howard, Okafor and J.O. in the Eastern Conference (among others), there is a chance that Jefferson may NEVER participate in a single all-star game.

So when an all-star becomes available, we need to objectively consider including AJ in any trade package. I’d send Al and Green for Gasol but the #1 pick needs to be off-limits.

“Trading away the talent the celtics have been developing for the past couple of years will only keep them at mediocrity.”

This is mediocrity?

Jefferson has NOT been outplaying Gasol, no matter how anyone tries to justify it.

From “Real GM”: Gasol—20.3 ppg, 8.3 rebounds/game (Average this season). Al’s numbers not that much different from Gasol and Gasol probably has alot more touches than Al. Gasol, to me is a talented big who plays small. We have guys who can hit the outside shot. Would not trade Al for Gasol. GG still has a long way to go, but his upside is too great to move now. When we get Oden as most of you want, who needs Gasol?

I’ll stand for that trade if we can dump Wally and Scal at the same time.

Wally, Scala, Big Al, Green —> Gasol, Dahntay Jones, 2007 2nd pick, 2008 2nd pick.

We will get Oden because we want to? Thats all there is to it?

  Some beat reporter throws out trade rumor with no credible source cited and everyone goes in to chicken little mode talking smack “I’ll quite this team!”, or “I’ll give up on the Celtics” or “Danny Ainge is an idiot for this deal.” There is no evidence whatsoever regarding what offer has been made by Boston and already accusations are flying and ridiculous declaratives are being posted. Over a bloody trade rumor. Then somehow someone posts and adds the draft pick to the fray and peeps get even more hysterical when the article never even mentions the draft pick. This message board is hysterical! Unbelievable.

If you think Danny Ainge is giving up Jefferson AND Green both for one player . . .you’re dumber than you accuse Danny of potentially being.

If Al keeps up at his current pace, he’ll be Gasol’s equal or better within months.

For a guy that is 7’, 260 and is the focal point of his team’s offense Gasol is averaging a very average 18.6pts, 8.4 boards for his career.

Al has come along slowly, but he’s figuring it out. The fact that he’s doing so well against double or triple teams says alot about his ability.

Jefferson’s inside game compliments PP very well. Once they start working together night after night, a combined 40/20 average shouldn’t be out of the question.

“Al’s numbers not that much different from Gasol and Gasol probably has alot more touches than Al.”

Gasol took just over 2 more shots per game than Al, and averaged 7 more points per game.

“Gasol, to me is a talented big who plays small. We have guys who can hit the outside shot.”

You mean the big man who plays small but hits 8% more of his shots? Or gets nearly DOUBLE the FT attempts?

Lets ask the question this way,

“Who is the more effective scorer?”

Gasol: 1.44 pps (season) 1.37 pps (career)
AJ: 1.20 pps (season) 1.23 pps (career)

Why is AJ’s PPS Lower (lets look at FT as 3pt shots arenot huge for either)?

Gasol: .44 Ft/Fg (season) .49 Ft/Fg (career)
AJ: .34 Ft/Fg (season) .35 Ft/Fg (career)

Field Goal Pct:

Gasol: 55% (season) 50% (career)
AJ: 49% (season) 50% (career) (less this yr because of 2x teams? — assists have also climbed indicating more passing…)

So effectively looking at Gasol numbers as far as efficiency, I would say this year is an abberation (PPS is significantly higher, due to a much higher field goal percentage this year). However with that hectic style — I would imagine everyones field goal pct would be higher.

Anecdotally, I would have to say that Gasol has a much more refined offensive game. Considering the nature of his scoring and a far better passing game.

To balance that, the next question is

“Who is the more effective defender?”

Aj: 2.1 blocks per 48 minutes (season), 2.2 (career)
Pau: 3.13 (season), 2.5 (career)

Again all these numbers are uselesss, because we then would need to break them out on a per possession basis for the team as memphis do to its style of play gets significantly more minutes.

This has been a waste of my time. Proving only one thing — numbers wise Gasol is better statistically this yr than in the past – nearly across the board. Looking at the career numbers Gasol is a much more efficient scorer – BUT that being said, is he the corner stone of our defense going forward?

Is it more efficient for us at this point to build a winner by improving the efficiency of our offense, or the stingieness of our defense?

If the answer is defense the numbers don’t give us much to go on. But I don’t think Gasol is on anyones top defensive players list. and EVEN IF HE IS better defnesivly than jefferson (past, present, future), is gasol solid enough defender to anchor a team around?

I just don’t know if he is. Thats why I am against the trade, I don’t think we should be building around scoring…

What everyone should be asking is

Who has more heart?

That would be AL

gasol is a top 20 player in this league (who is just entering his prime), and to land a top 20 player in this league you have to give up A LOT. I mean, with all due respect to delonte west and ryan gomes, neiother of those guys will land you much in terms of talent via a trade.

there seems to be a lot of the “let’s give em five pennies for that nickel” mentality going on here, and that sort of thing only works on the real gm trade checker. we can’t expcet to land a veteran player (jermaine oneal, pau gasol, etc..) that we can build this team around without having to give up our best prospect(s).

Well, the Gasol-Jefferson comparisons have to be tempered by the fact that Gasol is 5 years older.

I’ll admit, right now, we don’t know how good Al will be – but to say that Al Jeff and Pau are comparable right now, that’s just a whole lot of Kool-Aid. I’ll admit that John Hollinger’s PER stat can be a little wonky, but for whatever it’s worth: this season, 6 players have a PER above Gasol. Dwyane Wade,Dirk Nowitzki,Tim Duncan,Kevin Garnett,Kobe Bryant,Steve Nash. That’s a shortlist of MVP canidates. On the other hand, 60 players have a PER above Al Jefferson.

Obviously, Al is going to continue to improve. But how much? We’re already concerned about his ankles, and he’s 21. And how will a max contract effect his work ethic? These are unknowns, and they have to be concerns. The chances that he never makes it to a Gasol level, are a lot higher then the chances he does

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, the only way a trade makes sense is if you have a front court of Gasol, Jefferson and Pierce. Wouldn’t West, Green, Perk, Theo and the #1 from Minny get Gasol and Warrick?

Brick — thats (age) another thing too. Unfortunately I don’t have the time, I should have ran the effiency numbers at similar ages. But who cares (gasol is better offensively).

But my opinion is championship is based around defense Gasol is not the defensive force in the middle we need; even if jefferson is not that person WHY MOVE HIM FOR SOMEONE ELSE WHO ALSO DOESN’T FILL THE ROLE.

Lets talk green and the pick for okafor. and I am in. or green and jefferson for okafor. Lets consider sean williams in the second round (as much of a punk he is). Lets even consider moving up into the late first round to get him if we have to.

A consolation prize to missing the top 2 in the draft may be ending up with Noah and Williams. Two 6’10" maniacs who can defend, defend and defend.

What do I know…

Memphis can dangle for all that I care. If Gerald and Theo get the deal done at the trade deadline, then I’m down with that. No Al and no pick. Period. If either one is a sticking point for them, fine, they can go straight to hell.

Perhaps I am foolish, but I kind of think that Jerry West knows a little bit more about judging basketball talent than the people on this board do. Al Jefferson is not an all-star. Further, he has had three years of playing significant minutes and still is not an all-star. He is a nice player and I like him. I doubt, however, that he will ever be more consistant 20-10 guy. How much more is he going to improve? Really? Pau Gasol is a top 20 player in the league. If you can get him while not giving up the draft pick, go for it. The chances are overwelming that the Celtics are going to get a top five pick. There will be a player in this year’s top five that will be just as good or better of a center of PF prospect as Gasol. Basically you can replace Jefferson with the draft pick. Think about this for a second. Suppose the Celtics don’t get Durrant or Oden and end up with the fourth or fifth pick. What are they going to do with that pick? The only players that will be available and justify a top five pick are going to be 4s and 5s. What the heck is the point of drafting another young PF or Center when the Celtics already have Perkins and Jefferson? There isn’t any. Further, it is unlikly that the Celtics will be able to get a top quality big man for the draft pick. If you don’t trade Jefferson, you run the real risk of getting stuck with the 4th or 5th pick and another, rookie with upside for the next three years.

Trade Green and Jefferson and Theo’s contract for Gasol. You then have two top 20 players and a chance to compete. If the Celtics get Oden or Durrant, they compete for the title immediately. What is the point of Oden and Gasol? Gasol can play the 4 and score while Oden plays the five and plays defense. Oden is going to be a dominant defender and rebounder from day 1 in the league. Him and Gasol would be devistating down low. Add in Gomes and Perkins coming off the bench and the Celtics are stacked down low for the next ten years. If the Celtics dont’ get Oden or Durrant, they will certainly get no worse than the 5th or 6th pick and will get a young 4 to pair with Gasol, who can also play center. Basically, the Celtics can replace Jefferson in the draft and end up trading Green for Gasol. They need to make this deal if they can.

One typo. The Celtics will get a young big guy prospect in the draft as good as JEFERSON not Gasol. You can replace Jefferson in the draft. You can’t get a Gasol in the draft. The Celtics need to make this deal if they can.

Gasol is a terrific player who’s only 26. He’s in the prime of his career and a proven all-star. If we traded Al and Gerald for him, it wouldn’t be a tragedy.

But is it really the best move for the team? I’m not so sure. What are Al’s numbers since he started getting big minutes this year (couple games before Pierce went down)? I’m really not sure Gasol is that much of an upgrade. In another year? Maybe no upgrade at all.

From a value perspective, we’re spending a HUGE chunk of cap space on Wally, and three guys — Ratliffe, Baker, and Grant — who don’t even play. The way for the team to get better is NOT by trading low cost, high value guys, for high cost guys, even Gasol. The way to get better is to hold onto the guys who give you outstanding value and start to convert payroll dollars from unproductive to productive.

Finally, Gasol seems like a mostly lateral move to me. We don’t need to trade good players for good players. We need to keep the good players we already have and add more.

My only exception to this might be Pierce. My God, if Antoine gets a ring, Pierce certainly deserves a shot to at least play for a championship. I’ve been thinking a lot about a trade with Chicago that could put them over the top and put us in better position come the draft. But that’s another topic!

Yes, I think MikeDfromNP has the right approach. Everyone realizes, of course, that this article could be a plant by the Memphis front office to drive up Gasol’s value.

Once again, there is a 95% chance that Gasol is going to the Bulls. The real remaining question is, for how much?

“Once again, there is a 95% chance that Gasol is going to the Bulls. The real remaining question is, for how much”

Do you work for the Bulls? It is interesting to me that Al Jefferson according to this board is just as good as Gasol, yet West didn’t jump all over getting him and Green, who is on record as loving for Gasol? Maybe the offer was not made. Or, maybe the offer was made and people around the league don’t think as much of Jefferson as people on here do. The fact is that the Bulls can offer better players than the Celtics can. I hate to say it Brickowski but you are probably right, Gasol is going to the Bulls.

I would like to ask though, what the Celtics are going to do with their draft pick if it isn’t a top two? I dont’ see any players in the draft after Oden and Durrant who worth taking in the top ten who don’t do exactly the same things Jefferson does. You will end up next year with a bunch of young guys down low not getting enough time to develop.

On the other hand…

I’d do this deal: Gasol for Theo Ratliffe and our first round pick.

Our pick will never be more enticing than it is now. And if Pierce comes back, we could drift out of serious contention for a top three pick.

ALSO we’re all assuming Oden and Durant will come out this year. Not a given.

ALSO we’re assuming if they do come out they’ll be as good or better than Gasol. REALLY not a given.

ALSO we’re assuming that even if they DO become that good, they’ll do it while Pierce is in his prime. REALLY, REALLY not a given.

If Memphis did the deal, they’d have an outstanding chance at the top pick in the draft and a slam dunk for one of the first two. And they could possibly have both one and two.

If we do the deal, we start Pierce, Jefferson, and Gasol. That’s pretty good!

On top of that, we convert Theo’s unproductive payroll dollars into the very productive Gasol!

PDawg,

You are crazy. I know it is a long shot, but Oden and Durrant are once in a decade players. You can’t trade the pick until you know what it is. I can’t imagine giving up that pick and then having it turn out to be one of those guys. It would go down as one of the worst trades in the history of sports. You can’t do it.

Durrant is coming out. His parents have said so, he has said so. There is no way he is staying. Oden is saying all the “I love college” BS but he is the number 1 pick, there is not point in staying other than to risk getting hurt. No way does either one of them stay.

Quite frankly, I don’t think Wyc is going to like this deal. It sends out Theo’s contract, of which, it’s my understanding, insurance is covering a high percentage of. If we do this, he will have to actually fork over the cash to pay Gasol. Since just about every deal made in the Wyc/Danny Era has included a pay cutting angle, I don’t see this having a prayer of going through. Personally, without Wally being dealt for an expiring contract, I think Theo’s contract will be allowed to expire, so they can extend the youngs who will need to be resigned. The only way I see this changing is if Wally can be unloaded for an expiring contract. I do not think Wyc will want to carry all three contracts, Paul, Pau and Zoolander going forward. I think they are after the most ping pong balls possible, while spending as little money as possible in the process.

If Ainge indeed Offered Al and Green for Pau, then i’m done supporting him and i’m done with this team until Both AINGE and DOC are gone! no GM in their right mind would offer two young gems who haven’t yet reached their prime for an injury prone allstar making near max money!

One last thing, if Jefferson is so good, why can’t the Celtics beat anyone? I know it is a five man game and one great player is not going to get you anywhere, but an all-star calliber player ought to be able to explode and will his team to a victory once in a while. I gaurentee you that if Jefferson had gone down and it had been Pierce and this crew, the team wouldn’t have lost 14 in a row. Further, Gasol has played with a bad cast in Memphis, yet the team does win occasionally. Yet, Jefferson, gets his shot at being the man and we get 14 losses in a row. The scoreboard doesn’t lie.

Gasol might have the edge over Big Al now but Gasol just hit his prime and Big Al should be out of college now. Big Al will be Gasol equal by the start of next season and for many millions less and 5 yrs younger, and then we get to keep green who might be a starter by the start of next season if he keeps on his improvement pace. this would be the worst trade in celtic history.

One extra last thing. If the Celtics do trade Jefferson, what is the worst that can happen? What they have a joke of a team that looses a team record number of games in a row and threatens to break the NBA record for consectutive losses? Boy that would be bad. It is one thing to drink the kool aide on players who win, but on a bunch of guys who can’t win a game in the month of January?

The root of the problem is DOC RIVERS, not AL JEFFERSON who is 22 years old and averaging close to 20 and 10 with 2 blocks a game since he’s been a starter! GIME A BREAK HERE! AL is already better then PAU and he’s like 6 years younger!

One last thing JohnK: if Gasol is so good, why can’t Memphis beat anyone?

Brick,

They do win once in a while. The Celtics can’t beat anyone. They haven’t won in a month. Stop kididng yourself. The team is horrible. Yeah, Memphis stinks but they haven’t lost 14 in a row and also Gasol has been hurt some this year. Put a healthy Gasol on the Celtics and I gaurentee you that the Celtics would win sometimes. The team as currently constituted can’t beat anyone. It might loose 20 games in a row. Yet, Al Jefferson is this can’t touch player? That is just a joke.

Celtcs can’t beat anyone cause Glen DoC Rivers is the coach. END OF STORY!

Is Gasol or Pierce more valuable to Chicago?
I’d take Deng and NY’s 1 that Chicago owns. Or replace one of their
PG’s or wing players for the 1?
What about Pierce to the underperforming Clippers? What’ll he bring from them? Paul would be back in Cal …

I am more than willing to part with GG for a player like Gasol. Where do I sign? As for AJ, no way. He is special.

I am all for holding coaches responsible, but when are you guys going to start holding players responsible for something? Doc doesn’t rebound or shoot? I dont’ care how bad the coach is, any team in the NBA ought to be able to win sometimes. Those guys get paid big money to produce and they are not doing it. If the team were just loosing and not historically bad, you could maybe blame it all on Doc. But when Pierce left the team became historically bad. That is not all the coach. People need to sober up and face the reality on these players. They are not that good.

this is good comedy… If its not a top 2 pick, I look at trading down to get the man they target. I wonder if Noah might be the best fit for this team (in the draft, outside of oden)… and I am not a huge noah fan.

..I hope we are not turning deals deals for the sake of keeping GG. He is not going to be missed. Not now, not in the future.
-best case scenario, he becomes AHouston2.o(with better hops)
-worst case scenario, he becomes RMercer2.0(with better)

I don’t buy it. That’s just The Logo trying to improve his options.

“22 years old and averaging close to 20 and 10 with 2 blocks a game since he’s been a starter!”

If this were only true. 14.6 and 11 with 1.4 blocks. That’s close.

That rumor from Memphis has about as much validity as the one in the Providence Journal regarding PP.

This is clearly just a way to try to get Chicago give up more for Gasol. Both Deng or Gordon (Memphis wants both, but will get only one of them) are now better than Al. Add to one of them a young prospect (Tyrus Thomas, Tsefolosha – about as good/promising as GG) and this year’s No. 1 pick (that’s what’s been reported as offered by the Bulls) and Chicago has a better offer. So calm down, AL and GG stay in Boston. All this is just a Jerry West game trying to squeeze the Bulls

ced said:
  “Half this site agrees with Pierce and his ‘trade the pick for a veteran’ mentality….yet when an offer comes up everyone is insulted and thinks Green and Jefferson are too much. SO WHICH IS IT??!!? The Celtics had the chance to trade for veterans in both Boozer and A.I. without giving up BOTH of these guys and didn’t do it…now Pierce and fans have the nerve to say we should trade the pick for veterans….but only if we dont give up any talent. Gimmie a break.”

I agree man. Mostly everyone wants something for nothing. It doesn’t work that way. Give Memphis Jefferson and Green for Gasol, an all-star player. We will still draft top 5-8 or so, thus probably Ainge going over to check out Yi Jianlian.

 I would not do this trade for Gasol so we can be mediocre. Just so PP can make the playoffs and get knowcked out in round one or two. We have a shot not the best but a shot a some talent. The type that does not come around all the time. BAD MOVE if this happens!!

You guys hate Doc so much, I hear this guy is available. Why not? He might be a great coach.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/06/sports/basketball/06richardson.html?_r=1&ref=sports&oref=slogin

Gasol yes but not at BIGAL’S expense.

Keep Big Al period, Gasol will never be what this man is going to be.

Tommyfan,

Trading for Gasol doesn’t preclude tanking the season. By Febuary 22nd the team will be so far out of it, that it won’t make any difference. Why get Gasol and a top pick?

I’m not willing to give up on Big Al who I think will be as good as Gasol in another season or two and is 5-6 years younger.
On the other hand I’m not convinced that Gerald Green is ever going to be the player he was hyped up to be when they drafted him.
Potential doesn’t equal reality. So far Gerald has been very disappointing to watch, he doesn’t seem to have NBA qualities on offense or defense. Sure he can shoot from 3pt range and he can jump with the best of them, but after that he’s like a lost child on the freeway, not knowing what to do, where to go, or how to get there.
And still I keep hoping he snaps out of his fearful play and destroy his defender. Well it doesn’t seem like it going to happen anytime soon.
He plays too timid.
Back to Jefferson, he’s come to realize he can score on nearly everyone and that he’s good enough for teams to double team him. So now he’s playing with a more competitive fire and he’s gobbling up rebounds like nobody’s business. Once Jefferson starts hitting 15ft jumpers from the perimeter he’s going to be a nightmare for opposing teams. For that reason i say keep Jefferson and look to trade Green whom I’m affraid he’s not going to be anything more that a good jump shooter and dunker.
Green needs to work on ball handling all summer long and learn how to pass the ball like an NBA player and not like he’s still in high school.
Gasol could definitely improve the C’s, I’m just not willing to trade Jefferson for Gasol.
If the C’s happen to get one of the top two picks this coming draft they are going to be a much improved team for the 07/08 season.
Keep in mind the C’s were losing most of their games by less than 6pts per game, and the reason they lost those close games was because they were weak on interior defense and didn’t get much consistent offensive support from anyone other than Pierce. And their point guard situation was horrid.
So looking into the future they will be a better team defensively with the addition of Rondo at the point and the addition of Olden or Durant into the line up with Pierce and Jefferson and hopefully Tony Allen.
Still this team needs a coach that can mesh this talent and I’m not sure if Doc can do it.
Just think Rondo will be working on his jump shot this off season and I’m sure he’s going to come back with a decent jumper and a better right hand. Rondo is a difference maker on the floor, he’s a floor leader. Paul is going to be Paul with a mindset that is more inclusive of his teammates next season, not feeling he has to be the one to take all of the last shots of the final minutes ect.
Jefferson’s offensive game should’ve gained more confidence by next season that will propell him to play with more determination.
Then with the addition of Oden or Durant this team will easily be much better than the last 10 seasons.
I’m more excited about next season than I’ve been since the addition of Larry Bird

"Once Jefferson starts hitting 15ft jumpers from the perimeter.?

Who is to say he will? That is a big assumption. Maybe he will become a great passer. He has had three years to get a jump shot and still doesn’t have one.

I’ll kill them. Pau Gasol is the kind of player you have to build a franchise around but isn’t good enough to have that kind of focus surrounding him. He is a nice player. Not even sure if he is an All-Star caliber player. How many PF can you name that are far superior to him? Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, Elton Brand, Dirk Nowitzki, Chris Bosh, Dwight Howard (I suppose he isn’t exactly a PF, he may be a center, but I still count him), Jermaine O’Neal, Amare Stoudemire, Shawn Marion, I think Emeka Okafor is better, but that’s debatable. That’s 9 that are better than him possibly 10 if you count Okafor. He and Zach Randolph may be in the same category.

You can give them Green, I suppose, if it gets us Gasol back. You can find players like Green more often than you can a player like Jefferson. Good thing this is just a rumor. Besides if we trade for Gasol that puts us out of the top 5 pick catergory and there goes our chance at Oden and Durant. Why win this year if it’s not going to help us in the long run. If you are going to make a move wait until next season. Oden or Durant will be much better than Gasol. Why does this move make sense?

Its not the al and green are too much deal. They may be too much to deal for gasol.

The problem many of us are having is the direction this team should build around. If we are to trade youngs/picks lets trade them to go in a direction that will bring us closer to a championship. Most of us don’t think that GASOL (even though he is a better offensive player, thats with taking into consideration this years stats which are up do to the hectic style of play by memphis) makes us championship quality, considering that while he is an upgrade on offense (getting more FT attempts to boost his PPS over jeffersons), his defense is a lateral move; further his salary wil continue to introduce more of a handicap on this team going forward.

He is not enough of an upgrade, considering DEFENSE, OFFENSE (in terms of efficiency) AND CAP FLEXIBILTY, to warrant giving up the young players – when those said young player could be packaged to go in a deal elsewhere.

Hell you wanna trade AJ and GG and WW for gasol. Then maybe I would reconsider – but Memphis wants to pay wally less then the green do…

Some of you guys are just off your rocker and all over the place.

You argue well if Gasol is so good why can’t Memphis win? Uh, if Al and GG and everyone is so good why have we lost 14 in a row? You realize you must be nuts to think like this, right?

So you also argue Gasol has injury problems? GASOL has injury problems??Uh Gasol has been very steady over his career and not injury prone but what about AL?/ You know, AL?

so so much for winning and injuries

Now we want to discuss their perfomrance this year. Look at a stat ledger for Godssake. al is doing fine thank you, for all of around 20 games. Gasol is doing significantly better. He is still young and the way Al has been, would it be a shock if Pau ended up playing more games for the rest of his career than Al??

So now we throw in GG who is a ball of potential. A fair assessment is we upgrade solidly from Al to Pau but to do it we lose the potential of GG. Not a surprise that this is what the trade has to be for Memphis.

In addition, we make Memhpos worse for the rest of the year and we get better and lose perhaps a few slots in the lottery. do we wnat that alos as an outcome, we lose GG’s potential AND a few slots??

So I have an idea. I make this trade IF WE SWAP PICKS WITH MEMPHIS. OR the agreement becomes we get the better picks.

I would do that trade but otherwise although I like Pau, I pass too, but not if we get to keep the lower pick. But those of you who act like Pau is crap are just ridiculous

“By the End of the season AJ will be averaging around 17 and 10 if he remains in Green and Healthy.”

How is it that he only averaged 14.6 in January but is going to average 17 for the season?

Devil’s Advocate- Green’s career is likely going the the way of Dee Brown’s, while Jefferson can be replaced in the draft whether we have the 1st pick or the 10th.
Make this trade and I bet we still lose more than half our games and end up drafting someone like Noah – who can be better than Al Jeff.
Pierce-Gasol-Noah-West/Wally-Rondo. This is a team that can wrap up the east.

No-brainer, in my book, if Gasol has a totally clean bill of health.
Quality over quantity.

 “while Jefferson can be replaced in the draft whether we have the 1st pick or the 10th.”

Finally someone is paying attention. Exactly!! This year’s draft is loaded with power forwards and nearly devoid of point guards and wing players. IF things don’t work out in the lottery, the Celitcs will probably be picking in the 4 to 7 range. All the players who will be available will easily replace Jefferson. If the Celtics keep Jefferson, what are they going to do with the pick?

I think gasol for big Al is an upgrade but the idea of dumpin him now frustrates me. The idea of giving up G$ frustrates me more. I guess you have to give to get but that seems a little much. Especially if we are talking about giving up our high pick in the draft. I think Al and Theo’s contract should be enough even in a bidding war. Theo’s contract is a huge bargaining chip.

We should keep tanking though too further stack our team. Imagine flooring a team of:

Rondo
Pierce
Gerald
Durant
Pau

Wally, Delonte, Gomes, and Perk making up our bench.
Thats a squad I could get behind.

If only it were that easy.

as great as jefferson’s rebounding numbers are for last month, the rest of his numbers have been average to below average at best.

he only averaged 14.5 points and 1 assist for the month of january.

check his game log to get a better look at his numbers.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3832/gamelog

it’s kind of surprising, actually. i really thought they were better than that…don’t get me wrong, i still think he’s gonna be a really good player some day, but i don’t think i’d consider him untouchable. especially not for someone like gasol.

I think a trade’s going down but with maybe 3 or 4 other teams involved. I still think Jerry West wants a point guard. I hate to see Gerald Green traded before the slam dunk competition. Bottomline though: we’re the worst team in the east with Gerald Green and Al Jefferson. Something has to change.

Jeff – yes; in a heartbeet. Take a shot at two more bigs to pair with gasol… green is not necessary for the “short to mid” future of this team. Pierce has always put up large minutes…

has anyone considered that if Paul was to remain out longer and we traded for Gasol without giving up the lottery pick that we would more than make up for the loss of both of these guys come June..

i would do jefferson/green/theo for their pick in a second

I dunno how anyone could pass up Jefferson, Green, and Theo for their pick and Gasol. Even if Jefferson develops into a better player than Gasol, Pau is a near All-Star caliber player who is just entering his prime. Also, with Mephis’ pick, the Celtics would be almost guaranteed one of the top 2 picks in the draft.

I was just imaginging (more like dreaming) about the possibility of getting the top 2 picks in the draft and taking Oden and Durant. Imagine the lineup:
PG-Rondo
SG-Pierce
SF-Durant
PF-Gasol
C-Oden

On the other hand, if Danny give up Jefferson and/or Green, he better get back more than just Gasol.

I would never do that trade in a million years. Yes Gasol puts up nice numbers but he is a soft 7ft in my opinion. Jefferson will be a better player someday and Green will end up being better than both of those two. For every poster on here panicking and saying Gasol is the answer at whatever cost I say this.

C-Al Jefferson or Greg Oden
F-Al Jefferson or Kevin Durant
F-Paul Pierce
G-Rajon Rondo
G-Gerald GMoney Green

This team would easily win the division next year and make the second round of the playoffs. The year after they would contend for the finals. Think about it. Dont trade away the chance for this for a 26 year old seven footer who is soft and does not rebound all that great.

Would I trade away Green and Jefferson for Gasol? No. However, would I trade them away knowing it will bring me back Gasol and one of the top 2 picks (and a slight chance for the top 2)? Yes.

Oh, and if we got Mephis’ pick, but didnt get the top 2 picks, Id settle for Durant and Noah ;)

Gasol better than Jefferson? you guys are smoking the wrong stuff. did anyone see him in the Worlds?

Jeff, I would do that trade in an absolute heartbeat. Adding in two players from this good of a draft with our veteran core would be ideal. However, I think that it would be very difficult for Memphis to do this trade unless they get boned on the lottery and end up in the 4 spot.

If after the lottery we end up with say 2 and Memphis 4, I would still 100% do it.

err i meant it the other way around :p

It is unbelieveable how much people over-rate our team on these boards, and over-hype our players….I guess its the rest of the world that is wrong???? The power of Danny strAINGE compels thee!!!!

JohnK

I’m with you on this one. As long as we keep our pick. I would trade Al Jefferson, Gerald Green and Theo for Gasol. It wouldnt be easy letting Al go. But youre right when you say the odds are against Al becoming Gasol. And even more against Gerald becoming Tracy McGrady which is a comparison I often read.

The scary thing about a team as bad as ours is that you wonder if some guys numbers are inflated because someones got to get the numbers. I thought that I read someone call it Dan Dickau syndrome.

When I really thought about it I couldnt think of any game where I thought that Al was dominating the glass for any period of time. It could well be that someones going to grab those boards and it just happens that Al is playing down there enough.

I look around the league at the really good teams and they have one thing in common. They have all gone out either in free agency or in trades (or in both) and brought in impact veterans to go with a few homegrown guys.

I’ts not like if we get Gasol we cant continue to tank. In fact we’d probably still suck pretty bad. Especially without Pierce. Who knows maybe his ankle could convieniently swell up for March and April.

We would still have a shot at Durant or Oden and either would fit well with Gasol

One of the real problems I see with this article is a matter of perception. Surely we ‘overvalue’ our players to a great extent, every teams fans should. It scares me a little to realize that maybe a large part of the league (GM’s, Coaches, Players) place such a low value on our players. It is hard to argue with our record, especially without Pierce.

Al has had basically a small part of a productive season (out of three). Yes he was hurt some, but which will be the real Al in a couple of years?

Gerald Green still looks lost a lot out there. Gerald did get picked for the slam dunk contest, but I would much rather have seen him as a starter for the ‘sophomore’ team. Wouldnt this have been a much better indicator of his percieved value and future around the league?

Whether you like Gasol or not, when comparing stats (rebounding) remember two things. Gasol is playing a lot of minutes next to Swift who is a much better rebounder than a hobbled Perk and he is coming of an injury.

Al has averaged close to one rebound for every three minutes each of his three seasons. He is close to being the most productive offensive boardman in the league. He is also 5 years younger than Gasol. I almost hope that Ainge does trade Jeff & Green for Gasol, so I can close the book on this team forever.

talk about being overdramatic.. sheesh.

Just what Danny Ainge has been waiting for, an opportunity to part with our best young players so we can be a middle of the pack team.

Just for fun reference as of this posting tonight.

Gasol 17 points, 7 boards, 5 blocks in 21 minutes.

Jefferson 8 points, 7 boards, 1 block in 25 minutes.

hmmmmmm.

I think IF we pull down oden or durant in the draft, and IF gasol hasn’t already been traded by then, I think it could be very, very advantageous to throw green, big al and theo at memphis for Pau. If Pau hasn’t been traded by then I think Jerry West would probably be willing to make that trade, but it might take a good part of the offseason to get it done.

But I mean, think about it, a front court of Oden/Durant, Gasol and Pierce, that’s the best in the NBA. Plus Perk coming off the bench.

Even give Memphis more at that point, throw Telfair at them, who cares. if Danny can actually sign a reliable free agent, like a veteran 2 and have rondo and west run the point next year, damn, I think that’s a hell of a team, plus it gives Pierce a shot for at least some kind of success as he goes into his 30’s.

It’s becoming more and more obvious that the rest of Pierce’s prime and the majorly effective part of career could be wasted if we stay this course.

and Primussucks, we may not be contenders with that squad, but I say we’re more than a “middle of the pack” team. I mean the x factor is free agent signings, but with a little luck? (can I even suggest a little luck at this point?)

almost no one is arguing tha Gasol is ahead of Jefferson developmentally right now…the question is differential in skill as it applies to winning…Gasol is more consistent and puts up larger top-end games, but he probably doesn’t impact winning enough to warrent the trade by itself…Gasol plus this years pick is a good deal for Pierce however. Gasol is further ahead than Jefferson and the pick should be a more polished player than Jefferson was coming out…

“Gasol plus this years pick is a good deal for Pierce however.”

Yeah, this is realistic.

I am in the minority but I am for trading Jefferson and Green for Gasol, but not also including this years pick. We could not keep Jefferson, Green, a top two pick, and pierce. Eventually these young guys will either flop, or want too much money to keep around- get rid of them and see what we can get with pierce, gasol, and hopefully a top pick this year. Beats being on sportscenter becuase we suck-