Another excellent/logical read Jeff.Just hope the team takes the common sense approach to.

Reason #6 Gasol isn’t that good. Soft.
Reason #7 It doesn’t matter what they do until Rivers is replaced.
Reason #8 Losing is the only way the Celtics will continue to get national publicity. It will be all over the papers when this storied franchise approaches and then sets the NBA record for consecutive losses.
Reason #9 Maybe Grousbeck and his group will decide to sell the team.

If you can get Gasol now, that what you do. He won’t be there at season end. Sorry guys but when it come down to getting a proven vet, you can’t sit on your hands. Remember the lottery is a GAMBLE,and nothing has gone our way in many years.

last summer i went down with an injury and had to sit out the busiest part of my work year. for nearly a month i lay on a couch recuperating from surgery. (luckily the world cup coincided with my recoup perfectly).

even with 24/7 football to keep me preoccupied, my mind raced, my legs were restless, i wanted to go back to work. eventually i recovered enough to move around, do some household chores and such. when i got off that couch, and especially when i finally left the house i had this strong feeling of homesickness. i felt like my place was on the couch. i knew it was stupid and that i had to fight my way out of the post surgery blues, yet i couldn’t help the feeling.

this is how i feel about the c’s loosing streak. its comfortable, its familiar. why not lie down and just forget about the outside world, the world where people strive for victory.

but you have to fight, you have to get out the door. with out a goal in front of you what is life?
with out the desire to win what is a basketball team. a waste thats what.

for these reasons i cannot accept the tank.

i agree with your logical post and also add doc, aka ml,must go. as so many posters have noted, we need a fundamental [bcelticfan ] coach. the frustrating part for all of us is the continual losing and mediocrity, and still the painful image of tony a going down. i hope there will be day soon, that we can look back at this dark chapter and laugh at ourselves for our ruminating over possible trades to cover our pain.

I feel that we are only waiting for nothing! Celtics must make decisions about his future, when it’s clearly that the Ainge vision the aims about reconstructing the team have failed. A new vision, a new approach is needed! And we really need another scenario! You talk about Theo: Eddie Jones had the same situation and Memphis didn’t get anything! Wally is untradeable now and next year. We only can trade the young people and Gasol is a great great player. If he’s on the market, take it.

Quick point that’s lost in the analysis. Over the offseason they’ll also be more sellers in the same market.

Also the reality is that none of the teams out there are going to pass up a move they feel makes them a better team in the long run at the deadline because they might not get a second chance to make that move.

For instance if Boston really has the chance to get Gasol for Jefferson and Green but they wait till the off-season. Lets say Memphis wins hte lottery and Boston gets the fourth pick, does Memphis then still deal Gasol for that same package? Knowing that Oden/Durant is in the fold does Memphis decide to hold onto Gasol?

Does one of the three players mentioned above get hurt in the next 4 months?

These GM’s are all in pretty constant contact, always seeing if there’s something out there. They don’t have the luxury fans have of keeping thier jobs while the team continues to lose.

Jeff,

You’ve been reading all my postings and have put it all together into one!

Well done ;)

The other side of the coin is going forward with Green, Durant, Jefferson and whatever you can net for Paul Pierce (a real PG???). I realize that would make us wait another 2-3 years or so to contend, but once you’ve waited this long, why not do it right? With Pierce, KG, and Durant, you still don’t have a PG to get them the ball. Let’s not forget that before this brilliant 2 week stretch Delonte was nothing more than a jump-shooting 2 coming off the pine. Rondo is going to be nothing more than an energy guy off the bench and Telfair’s going to be cleaning the Banknorth bathrooms if he keeps this up. However, if we can package Delonte and perhaps Telfair and net say, Andre Miller, I say you got yourself a got damn deal. With Miller, Pierce, Durant, and KG, you could put Bill Russell at the 5 and still be the team to be in the East.

The C’s have had their top 3 players on the shelf for the past 24 games. Before that, they were 10 – 12. Toronto was 10 – 12. Given enough time with healthy players, the C’s would have started to gel. If everyone were still healthy we would have approxmiately 22 wins right now.

Take any team in the league & sit their top 3 players for 25 games & see what happens. Without Shaq, Miami was in the lottery.

Sure the C’s suck right now. I’d feel alot better about the situation if Memphis started winning some games soon.

you do what you can, when you can, with what you got……but DO NOT trade that pick until we’re on the clock and know the player

I agree in waiting til the off-season to make a trade/s. But i’d prefer gasol over kg for the simple fact that he’s at least 4 years younger. He’s around the same age as pierce. I’d trade theo, perk, green and allen for him plus 08 pick if needed for pau and stoudamire. then trade wally, west and gomes for bibby. draft durant and find a way to sign mo pete or kapono if we can’t. then find a way to get varejao. this will give us a starting 5 al, pau, durant, pp and bibby. our bench would be mo pete of kapono (for outside shooting), damon, varejao and scal. to round up the team would be ray, rondo and powe. we can probably sign some rookie free agents for insurance. these moves would make us contenders immediately and for a very long time. cheers!

Excellent post… I agree with holding out until the draft. We have NOTHING to lose, and getting rid of AL and GG would be Danny’s worst move to date. Unless it was for KG…

This team doesn’t need a scorer like Gasol. It needs defense— and more defense. This is the worst defensive team I’ve ever seen. McDyess didn’t miss a shot, and if Weber missed one, I don’t remember it. The Pistons shot nearly 70% for three quarters.

Telfair can’t defend a chair. Gomes is completely overmatched by players like McDyess. Gerald Green doesn’t know where he is supposed to be on defense. West is 5" shorter than Rip Hamilton and shouldn’t be asked to guard players like him (although West did a decent job on Rip). Jefferson never saw an upfake he didn’t like. Perkins is a step slow and a dollar short. Powe is a good post defender, but he can’t defend from the bench. Neither can Olowokandi.

The list goes on. These problems have persisted since day 1 yet the coaching staff has done NOTHING to improve the situation. Defense is hard work and boring repetition. It’s not as much fun as practicing your special dunks for the slam dunk contest.

That’s why they lose, not because they don’t have another 20 ppg scorer. And that’s why they will continue to lose.

I agree that management shouldn’t shake anything up at this point in the season. Maybe they should get rid of the the celtics dancers. Maybe I’d fire Doc but his natural propensity to lose is actually a plus right now.

Really though, you’d think the man would resign. Where’s his decency? Doesn’t he realize by now that he’s just a bad coach? He should live by his own rules and demote himself to water boy. If he does a good job maybe give him some reps at ball boy. But don’t ever let him near the coach’s seat ever again.

jchamorro – Toronto jelled because, honestly, they’re a signifigantly more talented team then we are right now. They have one of the best young PF in the game, a good two-headed monster at PG, and some nice complimentary parts. And they might even have the Rookie of the Year. Though, like the Mike Miller year, none of the above should be the leading vote-getter.

I’m not that high on Gasol – I think we already have a younger, higher ceiling PF/C. Stay the course and cross our fingers that the balls bounce our way.

In my mind, PP, Al and Durant or Oden would form a real nice nucleus. Add a year wiser Rondo to the mix and we have a solid 4.

I do think we need a final impact player to round out that mix though.

Loose the dancers for sure. Stop blasting music at the Garden. I hate the ownership in some ways more than I hate Gaston, and believe me I hate Gaston, for doing those two things.

West, Gomes and Jefferson are young productive players. Theo is $11 million in free cap space come 2008 and because of the insurance $11 million in savings for cheapskate owners in places like Minnisota and Memphis. That has got to be worth something. Further, Tony Allen’s injury may have been a blessing for the team. The unjury is going to greatly reduce his value. Had Tony been healthy all year and averaged 15 ppg, which I think he would have, he would be looking at some serious money as a free agent. Now with the injury, his value is discounted. The Celtics should be able to lock him up to a four year extension for reasonable money and gamble that his knee comes around, which is a pretty good gamble. With a little luck, they could end up with a frontline veteran shooting guard at a very reasonable price.

It is always darkest before the dawn. To me this season is finally cutting the cord once and for all to the OB era Celtics. The Celtics are finally going to be able to build something. They should be able to trade for a decent vet, and get a top flight draft pick (please God let it be Durrant). Then next year at this time, Wally will only have one and half years left on his huge contract and if he is healthy, could probably be pawned off on someone another vet. Things are going to get better.

I agree 100%. There is no reason to make any moves right now. Honestly, the young guys on our team will benefit long term for all of the quality minutes they are receiving this year. Wait until the off-season to retool this squad around a healthy PP, AL, perhaps another quality (and healthy) veteran that we trade for, and hopefully Greg Oden (or Durant). Those pieces mixed in with a few of our chips right now will take us back to the playoffs in 1 year. Go C’s!

“I’d trade theo, perk, green and allen for him plus 08 pick if needed for pau and stoudamire. then trade wally, west and gomes for bibby. draft durant and find a way to sign mo pete or kapono if we can’t.”

Sure you would because both those trades are highway robbery for the C’s. You’d have to give up West or Gomes just to get a team to consider Wally in a deal, nevermind who they’re sending back. So if you were Sacto would you deal Bibby for West or Gomes?

Green, Perk and Allen don’t come close to the value of Gasol. Allen’s got zippo value at this point.

Scotty…….slow down there

1.) your picking up two huge salaries in Gasol and Stoudamire.

2.) Bibby is a free agent

3.) Go back to basketball 101

Keep thinking of 2 years from now.

PG: West
SG: Allen
SF: Pierce
PF: Jefferson
C: Oden
Bench: Gerald Green, Rondo, Perkins (healthy)

We could win with that roster. To do that, tank on. Every loss is a win.

Scotty…….slow down there

1.) your picking up two huge salaries in Gasol and Stoudamire.

Gasol’s a huge salary because he’s GOOD. Damon makes 4.5 million a year for two more years. Not close to a huge salary, considering the basis for Ratliff being an expirering contract is that he’s going to retire. Something which he hasn’t hinted at doing yet.

2.) Bibby is a free agent

No, he’s not. He’s got the option to become a free agent. With the lack of teams having cap space and an open PG slot there’s no guarantee he opts out of his contract.

3.) Go back to basketball 101

Grow up.

“Pau Gasol is NOT, repeat, NOT the answer. did anyone watch his playoff series when he absolutely choked? do we not remember this?”

You mean the playoff series where he was the extreme underdog against the Spurs, or the one where he was the extreme underdog against the Suns, the one where he was the extreme underdog against the Mavs?

How’s Al Jefferson done as the number one option….hmmmm.

Is Gasol a franchise player? No way, but neither is Jefferson. Pierce is a franchise player. But he needs good players around him. Gasol fits that bill. He is a okay number 1 guy but a great number 2 guy. Get Gasol, Pierce, and one of the top four players in this draft, and you really have something.

Okay Jeff, just having a smile nothing bad……

Just had an argument with a collegue of mine with respect to Oden and Durant…..

We went back a few years and started arguing would you want Larry Bird or Magic Johnson……….

This is were we are at right now looking at Oden or Durant … who is it or will both be the next Bird and Johnson

Is KG really that much better than Gasol? IMHO, Gasol is a better offensive player and you can make a case he’s as good as a rebounder. KG is the better defensive player. Pau is younger. KG could give you one, maybe two championship runs(not rings), while Pau could give you up to 6 with the proper complement of players(PP included) and being that young, you have the time to find the right compliment….not so with KG

I hope we are not holding out for KG…

…that being said, if the price is AJ, then I would take a hard look at AJ the rest of the season a see where he is at season’s end. I won’t even bring up GG cause he won’t bring us back much….(i.e. I am sure Portland wouldn’t trade BRoy for GG)…as an example

Oden or Durant will do for the Celtics what Duncan did for the Spurs.
David Robinson was hurt which led to the Spurs losing and getting the first pick. Let the youngin’s play and no trade. Wally and Pierce will get healthy. Wally as a sixth man next year. We are going to be fine. This should have happened 2 years ago.

I agree that we should not panic and make a trade. But, if Gasol can be had for a price that doesn’t include Al and our unprotected #1, it should be considered.

oh and by-the-way, I agree with DAldrige when he recently reported that Gasol won’t be in the market for ever. Gasol availability, are time-limitted. And I think that when Memphis get their high pick and still have Gasol, they’ll end up with a impresive front line of RGay,PGasol/Oden/Durant…..now, why would they trade Gasol then?…they’ll fill up their arena every night when this happens….

…yep, Gasol availability is “time-limitted”…IMHO

Before acquiring Iversen the Nuggets were 14-9; since then 9-14.

I just heard Heinsohn being interviewed on the Mike and the Mad Dog show.
To summarize his comments:
1) Gasol: one player isn’t the answer and 2 years down the road you’re in the same situation again.

2) Jeff: the real deal

3) Doc: not to blame, doing a good job of working the young guys in, even before the injuries mounted.

4) Pierce: could end up as the greatest scorer in Celtic history. Is only now understanding howto make the players around him better.

5) Rondo: Heinsohn went over the job. He has the potential to become a Kidd, Nash, Cousy. No kidding, that’s what he said.

6) Ainge: has done the right thing and a great job.

7) If asked to coach this team, he would say yes in a minute.

8) Veal: the most underrated player in the league. Possibly the smartest player in the division (NOW I’M JOKING. HE WASN’T ASKED ABOUT VEAL)

5) Rondo: Hein went over the TOP not JOB

Anyone besides me really starting to question Tommy’s sanity? :’(

Jeff,

Thanks for the link, WOW that was an excellent take on Oden vs. Durant. I’m still a firm believer that you take Oden with everything Durant has to offer, Oden has that killer instict and drive

Now watching the ESPN “outside the lines” about the Celtics “Tankjob” and Jackie MacMullan: “The truth of the matter is this team is playing hard and tanking. They just don’t have the forces.”
Tim Legler thinks our young talent is overvalued and that none of them will end up a franchise player, like an Oden or a Durant.
I would definitely trade for Gasol but I’m not that upset if we don’t and continue to lose. We are losing the right way, keeping it close, giving the youth valuable experience and setting us up for Oden/Durant/Noah/Wright. Our team next year with a healthy pierce, Al Jeff, Rondo, West and “Franchise Draft Pick” will be an instant contender, not to mention a player in the next half-decade, especially with a top-caliber coach. Is Doc that man?

As a paid shill for the team, Heinsohn made sure not to say anything negative so as to preserve his ability to generate income. That’s the sane thing to do.

Tommy was a Celtics homer even when he was broadcaster for CBS. While he is a paid shill for the team, that’s not why he does it. It’s just who he is. Fortunately, his obvious basketball knowledge makes up for it. At least usually.

Im amused you call Gasol soft Brickowski and yet previously you wanted to trade for Kirilenko who cant go 2 weeks without coming down with a cold.. makes sense.
But yeah all white euros are soft.. give me a break.

Iverson is a thug
So and so has long nails
That guy has big lips
The other guy has bad posture
blah blah blah

Some of you need to get into the real world and see what is actually available before you comment. Bill Russells and Kareems of this world arent available and want to walk through our doors.

I hope we don’t stand pat. There’s a lot of good players ready to move. It may not be that way this summer. But we shouldn’t give away the store.

We are undersized at critical position on defense Gomes at power foward; west at the two Guard spot and rondo and telfair at the point. we need to first get the interior defense and rebounding needed to win in the NBA. thus we need oden or durant which ever is avaiable when we are on the clock. Loook for deals to get bigger at the poin and at the two guard spots as well. that is where wally ( Defenseless) world comes in along with west Gomes and Telfair. also look to package Ratliff Alan Ray for a solid backup 4 or 5 bY ALL MEANS KEEP AL JEFFERSON GERALD GREEN TONY ALLEN Kendrick Perkins along with Pierce of course. I would be hard pressed to trade the keepers unless we were getting an all star in return which is Dreaming.

Scotty said:
  Anyone besides me really starting to question Tommy’s sanity?

No, but I am questioning your motive here…

And regarding your quesiton above about Al, how is he the “#1 Option” when most games he doesn’t even get the most shot opps or touches? Most times he does he’s at or near 20 points.

I don’t think Gasol is going anywhere. The Grizz will ride this out and team Gasol with Oden or Durant. They’ll tell Gasol they tried to trade him but could not get equal value. They’ll remind him of the excellent draft pick, new coach, etc. Unless the offer is extremely good, I don’t see the Grizz pulling the trigger.

Memphis is going to build their team around Rudy Gay for the future. I think Gasol will be moved at soem point…if not during the season, then before the draft.

I do not want a “Deal” in the sense of a trade. What I want is “Deal” where we get rid of this current coach and get a competent NBA coach.

Secondly, I am sick of tired of a guy like Perk going out there on only one wheel and trying to play. Perk can bring a gun to the bench and demand that I as a coach play him; and I sit him out. Rest, rest, rest, rest, rest, is part of the cure for his type of injury- plain and simple. It is not an injury that you play through. Why can’t Doc, Danny, etc realize this and act accordingly?

Shut the kid down and bring up a nobody out of the D league or give all his minutes to Powe, Kandi, Scal, Gomes,etc. This isn’t rocket science for Christ sake.