Its Not Tanking, Its Tinkering

look at the great success that doc created last year with his tinkering, ie, putting tony at the point. a raye aint no point and never will be and if he is our point we are doomed more than you think. if i thought doc was doing this to cover up a tank job than i would have a quasi-ok feeling, however i think it is a typical doc wrongheadedness kind of chess player move to satisfy his ego that he is smart. or a karl rove kind of move to give the media something to talk a bout so they don’t get to close to the truth.

That idea from Doc deserves a Tommy grunt… what a terrible call, by a terrible coach.

Gomes at center? I’m quite sure Doc’s tried that already.

Nothing new here. Doc’s been tinkering more and more over the past 3 years. And it’s working out so well! With Rondo and Telfair needing point guard minutes desperately, Allen Ray is being given minutes he hasn’t earned, and we just don’t have to spare.

Every extra game that Wyc and Danny let Doc coach is a lost opportunity to get better for next season. Doc must be the most charming guy in the world.

If him tinkering means we put a stranglehold on second worst record, I say ‘tinker away, Doc’.

If Allan Ray either “succeeds” or “fails” (these things being relative) as a point guard in limited minutes in a few games at the end of the season, what exactly will that prove?

 Doc should not be taking minutes from Rondo. He is the guy of the future for this team. If he wants to take minutes from somebody then it should be at the 2 not the 1.

“Not to rehash yesterday’s conversation, but if we are going to play extended training camp games, is there any reason to keep Pierce in play?”

Well to get a better read on if ‘Allen Ray’ can play the PG at the NBA level for any extended time I think you have to make that judgement with the best players available to play at the other positions.

This comment from Doc is not ‘lets see if Ray can be a starting PG in the league’ its ‘lets see if he can play some spot minutes at the PG in case there’s an injury next year’. If you stick him out there with Gerald Green, Telfair, Leon Powe and Kandiman do you honestly have an idea if he can run the PG at all?

The mentality on development of talent by fans can be scary at times. Half want complete development of 8 young guys at once, not realizing that unless you’ve got some guys out there that know how to play you’re not developing anything at all.

The season is over as far as ping pong balls are concerned…Our closest rivals have five more wins than we do…You can rest assured we will go nowhere near o’erleaping them…Memphis is disgusting and has no intention of coming anywhere near us…Sooooo, we will have the second worst record when all is said and done…That means a pick between 1 and 5…Therein lies the rub.
Who can speak definitively of someone other than the locks: Oden and Durant???

I think this is fine. The season’s over. He already said they’re practicing for next season, so why not use the games that are left to try out the players in different scenarios and open up their range a bit? Give some of the bench-warmers some real minutes with some real pressure so they can grow. I don’t see any problem with that. It’s not like he’s telling them to throw the game. He’s just using different guys to see how they perform. And as a bonus, Paul and Perk can cut their minutes down and start healing up for next season.

That being said – by opening day 2007, he better have a damn good idea about what his rotation looks like. No more messing about.

Obviously they are in tank mode, but can you blame Doc for trying play at the point? He might be the most compete point guard the team has at the moment. Pathetic, aint it? He can shoot well, he’s pretty quick, and I believe he can dribble with both hands. Clearly he would be the backup to Rondo, but he might be better than West and Telfair. What the heck. If it means we get a better shot at Oden and Durant, then I’m all for it.

Did it occur to anyone that Doc may be grooming Ray, not to be the point guard, but to replace the combo guard we have now that may be leaving in a trade in the offseason? No reason to keep 2 combo guards. I’d rather see Ray just play the 2 though.

I actually think our ping pong ball allocation fate is sealed at 2nd most. We have quite a spread between Memphis and Charlotte/Milwaukee. If needed, we can go into super super tank mode the last few games.

I would want to see Rondo play 30 minutes per game. Anything we do to experiment with Ray’s potential beyond the above is fine by me, but not if we don’t get Rondo the time he needs.

Doc’s whole coaching style is one tinker after another tinker. By the second game of a tinker, Doc gives it up and starts another tinker.
Doc’s tinkers are really just stinkers because he is clueless. End the tinkering, fire Doc, hire a coach.

Wouldn’t aRay be a perfect fit in a triangle offense? He can a) dribble b) get out of the way c) and shoot when he’s told to.

I actually like him as a player – he can put major points on the board really quickly (and was always the first option all four years he spent at Nova – carrying that team for two years till Foye woke up – doesn’t hesitate to shoot a big shot), and there isn’t anything preventing him from being a solid defender… I don’t have an issue with him comming back next year.

I still think West is the odd man out. I think he could be our “jeff hornacek” BUT with wally untradeable, TA an unknown commodity at this point the only expendable chips we have of any value (or apporaching their max value) are: west, gomes, scal, theo.

With the drafting of a big man, we say good bye to (Stranger with) kandi. We would still need a 2 for one to open a spot on the roster for the second round pick – or grab a euro and let him develop overseas. Or a relase of an end of bench player (aRay) and if he plays well down the stretch maybe we move him for a future second rounder…

BUT the question for doc is – “Can I see the rondo – west – ray lineup?” PLEASE?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? West is 6-4 he can gaurd t-mac!

“Wouldn’t aRay be a perfect fit in a triangle offense? He can a) dribble b) get out of the way c) and shoot when he’s told to.”

If he wasn’t a midget would can’t defend he’s not a bad fit for them. But since he is a midget and can’t defend he’s not.

I just don’t understand why he didn’t tell us this at the beginning of the season, because he has clearly followed through with tinkering plan from training camp until now.

I believe Doc and the top brass have decided to tank it all the way but do it in a nicely deceitful way. Ray is not a PG; he is a shooting guard, just as West is a shooting guard, not a PG. Trying to convert Ray into a PG will anull(sic) his psoitive contribution to any team; his scoring ability. If he has to think pass first, instead of only looking for his shot, it will only take away his only skill. He can be a prolific scorer from the perimeter; as good or better than anybopdy else in our team; and we are going to take that away from him? Doc cannot be that stupid; It has to be a calculated smoke screen to justify that we make sure we lose as many games as possible down the stretch. Maybe now more than before since the winds of rumors have it that neither Oden or Durant might stay put in school. True rumors or not; do we assume that they are false and that both will come out? What if rumors are true and our basket of top draft prospects diminishes by 2? Shouldnt we have Plan B just in case thats the situation? We are tanking in a nice deceitful way; thats all.

i agree with bankshot here. i think this is a good idea. ray may be no more a pg than west is. but if ray couldnt handle the backup ballhandling duties a little it gives this team more trade flexibility this offseason if someone asks for dwest in a deal. theres no downside to doing this. none. we already know ray has a right hand.

In a worse case scenario, if we fall to the 5th pick and don’t like the available “bigs”, I still wonder about getting Acie Law to run the point with Rondo. Acie can’t quite shoot as well as Delonte, moves better defensively and has “ice” in his veins when it comes to crunch time. He is the leader of a very good Texas A&M team and undoubtedly the best PG available.

He may not be the shooter that Delonte is but he’s close and has better handles and unlike Delonte, he can get his shot off at will.

He is more NBA ready than any PG currently on the Celtics, but that endorsement awaits testing at the NBA level.

Why go small when we need bigs and this is a draft featuring bigs? We do have a second round choice and we do have trading chips for a late first. The center position is the most difficult position to fill and the PG position is the second most diffuclt position to fill. It’s more important to get quality and team balance than to collect size at the expense of talent.

The big question about Acie….Just how good is he, does he have considerable upside? As an unhearlded college freshman he has managed to rise to the top of the draft heap and his game continues to grow and expand. While not originally a PG he has grown into that role without any problem….one true sign of a gifted althlete is versatility with production. He has shown both. Just musing……

Maybe it would be nice to just get Ray a little bit of trade value.

Good move in my mind.

I like Ray as a player, BTW: kid can shoot, and seems reasonably quick and athletic so should only get better as a finisher and defender. But for that very reason, I think about how trying Tony Allen at PG set his development back, and would hate to see the same thing happen again. Also, I don’t think playing Ray a few minutes at PG in a few late-season games that are struggling to lose as much as to win will show anything so conclusive I’d want to base off-season personnel moves on it.

Allan Ray came to us as an offensive curiosity, In limted early season minutes his shot wasn’t falling and he had some difficulty adjusting to the speed of the NBA game.

Fast forward to his performance of late and one sees considerable maturation to his game. Doc and Danny must now be wondering if additional PT will discover what Allan’s true potential will be. His size dictates the PG position where we lack offensive firepower and a complete field general. Make a blend of Rondo and Delonte and we start approaching a near perfect PG. It remains to be seen how much PG “potential” Allan Ray will show and then begin guessing about his potential upside. Will he be another Marcus Banks or another Acie Law???

You have to think trade value is going to be behind much of this. Look for Ray, Telfair, Green & Powe to get extensive minutes down the last stretch.

Why can’t we hire a coach like Larry Krystkowiak who preaches “Defense” as the Bucks defeat San Antonio

Nothing like a good old fashioned clusterf*** at the point. If this doesn’t speak volumes on what we did with the 2 first round draft picks, what does?

I’m still wondering on the poll, it asks who is to “blame” and most are saying it is “dumb luck”. What exactly are we blaming: the poor season(s), the losing streak, the defense, the lack of development?

Why is this dumb luck? Are we going to attribute this season to the nonsense that the Red Sox did for so long, “Curse of the Bambino”?
Aren’t we more intelligent than that?

I invited a friend over to watch the future of the NBA play the San Antonio Spurs this weekend. For whatever reason, he thinks SA is a team with all this history of winning. I can’t imagine where he got that from. Well, he is in his early 30s and the Cs haven’t done much since the 80s. Anyways, my point is that I’d love for the the Cs to show my friend what a real franchise is and what the future of the NBA looks like…..here is for hoping the Cs have a full complement of players(minus Wally snd TA) Saturday night and play a respectable game…..in-other-words, I just want to “save face”..as they say….lol

..after that, I am ok with whatever combination of players Doc wants to play the rest of the sesaon.

Hasn’t Doc been “tinkering” ever since he became the Celtics’ coach. Unless Ray is being groomed as our point guard of the future, what the hell is the point of taking minutes away from Rajon and/or Delonte and giving them to Ray.

This sounds like bad news to me. For any coach with 18 wins, to not be trying
to win every game, must have been given some kind of assurance, that he will be
extended.

Mark my words, Doc will be back next year.

I hope I’m wrong.

I posted this on the 3/16 links post. Sorry, this is apparently the more appropriate place! LOL:
You say “experiment”; I say “tank.” Allen Ray at the point? Who is he trying to fool? He’s got Rondo coming on strong, and Telfair in MAJOR need of a confidence boost, and he pulls this one? C’mon, Doc, who gave you these marching orders?
What a circus. This is embarrassing. Doc officially becomes M.L. Carr with this “party line.”
Now I really, truly, honestly want him canned, even if management sees him as the perfect coach — for the rest of the season.
Please pray we get a real coach. I hate to sound like a reflexive Doc hater, but seriously, next year, with a lottery pick on board and most players healthy, we’ll need a top-flight coach to kick this thing into high gear.
“Experiment.” Too funny.

There is no way on God’s green earth that Doc merits, or will receive, a contract extension. I don’t know much, but I know you’re wrong, Little D. It just makes no sense whatsoever. We all know Doc’s strengths pluses and minuses, and the minuses outweight the pluses. Simple as that. Ainge hamstrung him with this group, but still, Doc’s no title-winner. He’s a caretaker, and pretty much always has been. Next year’s team will have a lottery pick and fewer and fewer excuses not to challenge for the ECF. I mean it. But Doc will hold them back from that much more than bring them closer.
Time for a real coach!

Big_Easy ,
I couldn’t agree with you more. I hope your right! He seems to be making these moves, like he knows something we don’t. Maybe he’s that far from realty and doesn’t see the forest through the trees.

As I’ve stated before, just the way this team came out of training camp, is reason enough to have terminated him.

For the trees.