Ainge, Youth, and Talent Evaluation

I guess how many times are we going to harp on our youth and if Paul will be traded.

Sadly how this season will revolve around the ping pong ball.

It will be interesting to see how much our young players would command on the open market, with all the comments we keep hearing.

How many thought that Marcus Banks would get such a contract from Phoenix, and how much better is he then say Tony Allen or Delonte West. So I’m sure there will be some crazy GM who will offer much on the table to sign them.

I think that what Danny has to do out of this group is decide who stays and who will go. As I stated before the season started when we were all talking about the young players, we all wanted to know who can play and who couldn’t; we all knew not everyone one of them would make it.

More the most part we know that Jefferson, Green, & Rondo will be a major part of the team. Delonte, Gomes, Perkins & West are great role players coming off the bench. I would say that Telfair is an enigma at this point.

Clearly having a capable Veteran with this team will change everything as when Walker & Payton were here for the short term.

Paul from readings the last few days, like giving the ball to Green and Jefferson and maybe he sees the light…………….. that things are beginning to turn ………. It takes time to develop but if your clearly seeing signs of things to come….“Don’t make drastic changes”

I can’t wait for next season to begin…. I truly feel that we are headed in the right direction with this group…. Clearly again much rests upon the draft and which Veteran is brought in to help….

Picking “retreads” in the NBA is as much a “minefield” as the draft is a crap-shoot. Who would have predicted that Deon Williams (Utah) would develop so quickly after having watched him struggle last year? One can make an “educated” guess about probable stardom based on breakout performances (ala Gerald Green) but despite these isolated performance indicators many critics still proclaim that the Celtics over-value their youth. The same was said of Jefferson (even Perkins) last year.

This is the problem with having 12 projects at once. GM’s have already been quoted this year as saying that Danny over-values our young kids. That combined with having the worst record in the league, and the option of only being able to sign a few, and we aren’t going to get ANYTHING for them. I think we can bank on it that Green, and Big Al are the most untouchable, but even if we wanted a trade the only veteran that we could trade them with is Theo. Any idiot would have taken Gerald at 18, and it has been 4 years of “ifs” until this year. IMO this summers draft is Danny’s last if, and that has to do with Pierce, Ainge’s respect around the league…..Never would i have thought 4 years ago that we’d only have 15 wins, then again with this upcoming draft class, we coudln’t have picked a better year……IF we get pick 1-2….Never have a watched a Texas or Ohio State game looking at our prospects and thinking “You have no idea how much an NBA team, city, Superstar, GM, and coach need you to save their franchise.” Think about it, we are at the mercy of a 19 year old…WHAT???!!!!!

I am going to go out on a limb and say this offseason the Boston Celtics will be the most sought after team in terms of a trade.Just from the standpoint of having solid prospects,Expiring contracts,Present and future draft picks(Lottery this year,Minn. down the road.).If Danny play’s his cards right this team will make gigantic strides and become a playoff/division title team next season.

I don’t think there is anyway you can say Green is going to be a backup. That is just stupid. Granted, it is a bit much to call the guy the next Tracy McGrady, but a backup is just insulting people’s intelligence. “One eastern conference exectutive”, who were they talking to Billy King or Isiah Thomas? Further, Tony Allen, assuming his knee isn’t gone, is a starter in this league to. Now, West is a backup but a pretty good one. Same goes for Perkins and Gomes. I don’t think drafting three starters and three backups plus Powe who will probably be a decent backup is that bad.

Also, if these guys all stink and everyone things they are backups, why then will it be so expensive to sign them? It will take some big money to sign Jefferson, but does anyone here think that West or Gomes is going to get anything more than what Perkins got? They must have been talking to Isiah or King, “these guys are all backups, but we plant to make big money offers to them in the off season.”

There seems to be a disconnect there. If they are truly second rate players than none of them will command more than the MLE at the absolute most and most probably will be in the 4-5 million range as a peak. If that is the case then why couldn’t the C’s sign almost all of them and avoid the tax. I realize Pierce at 20 million and Jefferson at 10-15 million is a large portion of the cap, but once Wally is gone the C’s won’t be anywhere near luxury tax range.

“You look at Gerald Green, that kind of kid, and you go, ‘Wow, these kids are so talented. He can shoot. He can dunk. He can jump,’ " said Jackson. "But the problem is they don’t know how to play and they don’t know how to fit a role. They don’t know what the job requires for them to be part of a team.”..Phil Jackson.——-This is what we are dealing with x’s about 8 or 9 players….
    Ã¢â‚¬Å"A guy like Perk isnâ€â"¢t going to impress you with what he puts on a stat sheet, anyway,” he said. â€Å"Heâ€â"¢s a defender and a rebounder, and you donâ€â"¢t see a lot of stats that reflect what a guy like that does.
    Ã¢â‚¬Å"Great basketball fans are going to understand it and see it,” said Jefferson. â€Å"But for what heâ€â"¢s still able to do out there with that injury – all I can do is give props to him. Heâ€â"¢s doing a great job.”….Al Jefferson. I agree we need to make some changes, but we just don’t appreciate what we have here. Look at the improvement of several players from the end of last year till now. Al, TA, GG. These guys will get better. (TA depends on health). Rondo will get better. This group has only been together this season. PP is adjusting to these guys as they improve (and he’s not close to 100%. I think the effort needs to be on these guys continuing to improve their individual games and all need to learn where they fit into the unit to make it a team. This takes the dreaded word “TIME”. Perk seems to be overcoming his foot problem as shown in his play against Curry the other night. As I said, I think changes are needed, but I don’t think we are in that precarious a situation as it seems. Also, I think that Aldridge has already said Pierce will be asking to be traded this summer. Just as it’s a bit early to be getting into the next Presidential election, I think it’s a bit early to start the PP rumors. Usually the pundits wait till the end of the season. In my opinion PP will NOT ask out. I think he wants to succeed with these guys.

I think the way Curry and Chandler are playing this year ought to stand as a warning to the Celtics. Everyone wrote those guys off and said the Krause was an idiot for drafting them. But, Krause was right, those guys really can play. It just took six years for them to show it. Now of course those two guys were out of high school not college like West and TA, but I don’t see how you can give up on Green, Perkins and Al Jefferson. What will they look like after six years in the league when they still only 26?

“I don’t think there is anyway you can say Green is going to be a backup.”

Sure you can, right now he’s a middling 20 minute a night guy on the worst team in the league (winning %). Is there really anyone here that thinks if he were playing for Detroit, San Antonio, Dallas or Phoenix that he’d ever see the court in anything more than a human victory cigar moment?

“If that is the case then why couldn’t the C’s sign almost all of them and avoid the tax. I realize Pierce at 20 million and Jefferson at 10-15 million is a large portion of the cap, but once Wally is gone the C’s won’t be anywhere near luxury tax range.”

Then you’re resigned to the fact that Theo Ratliff’s and Wally’s contract will be coming off the books getting nothing in return? Because the only way it works financially, even with the other players making an average of 3 million dollars a year is to have both those contracts come off the books with absolutely nothing coming back.

“I think the way Curry and Chandler are playing this year ought to stand as a warning to the Celtics. Everyone wrote those guys off and said the Krause was an idiot for drafting them. But, Krause was right, those guys really can play.”

Statistical impacts on bad teams. I know Curry is scoring well, but he’s a horrible defender, horrible rebounder and still has a huge health risk attached to him.

Moranis or anyone, just a question——does PP’s whole extension salary count towards the cap? For some reason I think only part of it counts.
I think Moranis and JohnK both make excellent points.

“Sure you can, right now he’s a middling 20 minute a night guy on the worst team in the league (winning %). Is there really anyone here that thinks if he were playing for Detroit, San Antonio, Dallas or Phoenix that he’d ever see the court in anything more than a human victory cigar moment?”

He is in his second year and is 20 years old. The guy can shoot. Fewer and fewer people in the league can do that. Even when healthy, what does Wally have the Gerald doesn’t? Wally was a nearly 20 point a game scorer when healthy. Wally is not nearly as athletic and Green has every bit the touch Wally has. But, Wally played four years of college ball. If Green were 26 years old, you might have a point. But since he is not, I don’t think you do.

“Then you’re resigned to the fact that Theo Ratliff’s and Wally’s contract will be coming off the books getting nothing in return?”

But you are not going to just rade Wally and Reaf’s contract and nothing else. Those contracts are only worth something if you put another lower priced player with them. No one is trading a good player for nothing but cap relief. Some of the young guys have to go with Wally and Raef’s contracts or the trades don’t happen and the contracts just fall off the books.

Actually the Celtics are in much worse luxury tax shape if they trade Theo and a prospect for some highly paid veteran (e.g. Boozer)than if they just let his deal expire.

But the quoted executive is right to a certain extent. The biggest problem is next year. They already have 62 million in committed salaries for 2007-08, which is just under the threshold, but their draft picks will add 5-6 million to that, which puts them over. So they will have to either shed salary over the Summer or pay tax. If they can’t make a draft night trade that reduces salary, they will look to trade Scalabrine and/or Perkins to teams under the cap (e.g. Charlotte) in exchange for cash or picks. Certainly both of theose players become expendible if they draft Oden or Durant.

In 2008-09 the situation inproves because Ratliff, Gomes and Ray come off the books. But in that year, Jefferson, West, and Allen become restricted free agents (and Gomes is unrestricted). So if they have to match a big offer Sheet for Jefferson (or smaller offer sheets for West or Allen or retain Gomes), that will eat up all of their space below the tax threshhold and then some.

If they can get by 2008-09 they look ok, because Szczerbiak comes off the books, although Gerald Green hits restricted free agency in the Summer of 2009.

If you take a look at their potential luxury tax exposure, you can see why, from a financial standpoint, the LaFrentz trade was absolutely essential.

Gomes and West are Tweeners with no real position. With skills no doubt but very replaceable. Green has a position he can play (and perhaps two) and he CAN SHOOT better then most. Replaceable but more difficult to do. AJeff would be EXTREMELY difficult to replace. Big men who can BOTH score and rebound in the low post are few and far between. Try naming a few (Shaq’s pretty old and doing less damage then Jeff right now). Telfair – Ho Hum. Very replaceable. Rondo – has the physical skills to outdo them all and be a perennial allpro. Neither Magic nor Kidd could shoot when they came into the league. Poe – another tweener, replaceable. Perkins – if what we are seeing this year is ‘normal’ for him, he’s a career backup. If it’s a result of his health (feet), and it CAN be cured, he is a role player but an important one. Wally – Replaceable easily. Pierce – an enigma to me, not sure how’d he’d fare on a team with a couple of great players.

Brick,

I think Perkins has a poison pill in his contract that will send his cap number through the roof if he is traded. After his injury problems this year, I can’t see anyone taking him for his post trade cap number.

Further, how do you let Gomes fall off the books? The guy is a solid player. You can’t let him go for nothing. You either have to trade him or resign him.

As far as Jefferson goes, they need to sign him to an extension this summer. His value is probably just going to go up after next year. Offer Jefferson the sure money this summer so it won’t cost him anything if he gets hurt and in return get him at a decent price. It can work for both parties. If they don’t sign Jefferson to an extension this summer and he has a big year next year, they are looking at $15 million a year summer of 2008. I think a $10 million a year four year deal might get him this summer.

Let me add that I see absolutely no way to add a player like Garnett or Jermain O’Neal to this roster without incurring a substantial luxury tax hit, unless MN or IN is willing to take back BOTH Ratliff and Szczerbiak. And why would any team do that? Gasol is a little cheaper, but still poses a major luxury tax risk unless they are willing to let Jefferson or Green go to free agency.

Financially the Celtics are much better off if they stand pat, hope the kids develop, and sign the ones that do to reasonable extensions. Pierce can talk all he wants about trading for veterans, but from a luxury tax perspetive, it makes much more sense to trade Pierce away for a less expensive player (e.g. Kirilenko) than to try to add another expensive veteran to this roster.

“Even when healthy, what does Wally have the Gerald doesn’t? Wally was a nearly 20 point a game scorer when healthy.”

Right, but you have to remember that we’re talking about a playoff caliber team here, which was the guys point to begin with. Even as ‘nearly a 20 point a game scorer’ Wally was the fourth option on the only team he was ever on that had deep playoff run aspirations. In terms of what does Wally have that Gerlad doesn’t, a fundimental understanding of the game.

“Some of the young guys have to go with Wally and Raef’s contracts or the trades don’t happen and the contracts just fall off the books.”

As Brick states later, all that does is gum up the theory even more. If you deal for example Theo and West for Randolph (using Zach because Utah isn’t going to be looking to deal Boozer). You’ve now got 20 million in Pierce, 12 million in Jefferson and 14 million in Randolph. Which leaves 18 million in space before tax land for your other 11 players, not to mention you still have Wally on the books and are looking at a top 4 pick in this years draft.

“If they can’t make a draft night trade that reduces salary, they will look to trade Scalabrine and/or Perkins to teams under the cap (e.g. Charlotte) in exchange for cash or picks.”

Which you and I both know isn’t going to happen unless its one hell of a pick being offered to a team with space. WHy would Charlotte deal away its cap space unless it’s getting an asset more valuable than the ability to sign a free agent?

“I think Perkins has a poison pill in his contract that will send his cap number through the roof if he is traded. After his injury problems this year, I can’t see anyone taking him for his post trade cap number.”

He may have a trade kicker, but there’s no such thing as a poison pill in a trade. Especially when the player in question’s average salary is 4 million dollars a year.

“Gasol is a little cheaper, but still poses a major luxury tax risk unless they are willing to let Jefferson or Green go to free agency.”

At least one of these two would be gone in the deal for Gasol, possibly both. Righto n the same page with you today Brick.

Perkins isn’t an issue, because his salary stays flat, and in fact goes down by 400K in 2008-09 (by design). As a poison pill player, he will go on the receiving team’s books at the average annual salary for the remainder of his deal, which is around 4.3 million and which is actually 100K LESS than the 4.4 million he will make next hear.

So the issue with Perkins is whether or not someone wants him for basketball reasons. His cap number is not an impediment to a trade.
Remember this is not a “salary matching” situation because the team trading for him (hypothetically) would be under the cap.

Ainge Scouting Durant – I want to know others thoughts on this…

Oden is either going to be a dissapointment or the next Duncan/Ewing. Durant is a guaranteed upper end player who can flat out score on anyone and can contribute immediately. (Thinking of Carmelo coming out) I am almost hoping we get 2nd pick and take the choice of he or Oden out of Danny’s hands. Anyone else not totally sold on Oden?

JohnK, Agree that it would be great to sign Jefferson to an extension this summer. It really works for all parties. Danny is fair in the $‘s he would offer. If Al goes to the open market it really drives up the price. I don’t know if you can do this anymore, but when McHale was up for a new contract the Knick’s tried to drive up the price. Red countered by giving offers to all the Knick free agents, which was a big part of the team. The Knick’s cried “uncle”. Anyway, I think Al really likes to play here and would accept a fair extension contract and not go on the open market.

Right, but you have to remember that we’re talking about a playoff caliber team here, which was the guys point to begin with. Even as ‘nearly a 20 point a game scorer’ Wally was the fourth option on the only team he was ever on that had deep playoff run aspirations. In terms of what does Wally have that Gerlad doesn’t, a fundimental understanding of the game. "

The question is whether Green is a starter or not. Wally call him a fourth option or whatever you want, when healthy is a starter in this league. He is not a backup. As far as his understanding of the game, of course he understands the game better than Green, he played four years of college and several years in the NBA. I don’t see any reason why Green can’t understand it just as well or good enough after he has played four or five years in the NBA. I love the “he is on a playoff team” as a way to dog a player. The fact that Wally started on a good team means that he is a good player. You can’t have it both ways and say Gerald stinks because all of his minutes have come for a bad team but Wally also stinks because he made contribuitions on a playoff team. That is just crazy. Gerald Green is going to be a legit starter in this league. Only like 20 guys make the all-star team and there are what 150 starters and at least 100 of those are good starters, so there is a lot of room between “starter” and “all-star”.

As far as the luxary tax goes, the Celtics play in a huge market, and have a new arena. They can afford some luxary tax if they want to win. The issue is does the ownership want to win or do they just want to steal the most money possible from the fans. If it is the latter, the team will never win and we are all wasting our time. If it is the former, they will poney up and pay some luxary tax to keep their young players.

Yes, the C’s have 62 million on the books next year, but they only have one roster spot available and that will be for the first rounder, which at a maximum will cost 4.5 million. Thus they will more than likely avoid the luxury tax, especially if Theo never plays again. The problem is, I suspect Danny is going to try and trade Theo, which will then pose future cap problems.

“As far as the luxary tax goes, the Celtics play in a huge market, and have a new arena. They can afford some luxary tax if they want to win.”

Right now they could be paying the luxury tax next year and still be in the lottery, not far out of the realgm of possiblity. WHy would any team pay the tax, lose out on thier refund of other teams taxes with the hopes that in two years they might be paid off.

“The question is whether Green is a starter or not. Wally call him a fourth option or whatever you want, when healthy is a starter in this league.”

He wasn’t a starter on that team. He came off the bench because he was better suited to be a higher option with the bench team than the fourth option in the starting lineup.

“You can’t have it both ways and say Gerald stinks because all of his minutes have come for a bad team but Wally also stinks because he made contribuitions on a playoff team.”

I’m not having it both ways. Gerald might well become a legit player in the league, he’s certianly not right now. In fact on 80% of the teams in the league he’d be getting 3 minutes a night in mop up duty. I never said Wally stunk, that would be your misreading of the comment. Reality is that the only year Minnesota made a deep run in the playoffs Wally was thier fourth option on offense.

Could Gerald develop into a top flight starter, I guess that’s possible but its certainly not a given. If he is a legit starter is that team going to be any good? I don’t think its confrence championship material unless he’s teamed with at bare minimum 1 more superstar and 2-3 competant vets. Danny’s not the guy I’d be trusting to bring in that cast.

“The question is whether Green is a starter or not.”

No, it never was the question. Here’s Ian’s quote.

"if only for the reason that they won’t be able to re-sign them all and stay under the luxury tax. The other problem with thinking you can build around them is that on a good team — a team that’s contending for conference championships — they’re all going to be second-string players, except for Al Jefferson.’’

“a team that’s contending for conference championships — they’re all going to be second-string players, except for Al Jefferson.’’”

If you are a second stringer, you are not a starter. I think it is crazy to say that Gerald Green will never be good enough to be a starter for a contending team. Look at all of the “contending teams” in the league and then tell me that every starter on all 12 or so teams is better than Gerald Green will ever be. To me that is as dumb as saying Gerald Green is guarenteed to be the next Tracy McGrady.

I don’t think roster spots are an issue. They will just waive Alan Ray (and Powe and Tefair if necessary).

They will get a far, far better player than Ray with pick 31 in this year’s draft. They could get a player like Alando Tucker, Nick Fazekas or Ivan Radenovic with that pick. Someone always slips.

Ray is a goner, and everyone (including Ray) knows it.

If we want/need to get rid of perk, i guarantee there are 29(well, maybe 25) teams in the league that will take him. he’s young, and he has a great contract – he’s paid like a backup center, which is exactly what he is.

“Could Gerald develop into a top flight starter, I guess that’s possible but its certainly not a given.”

You act like Green is Scal rather than a 20 year old who can jump out of the gym and has beatiful shooting touch. To write him off like that and “well its possible” is just crazy. Further, Gerald could get more than three minutes on a lot of teams, if for no other reason than to run the floor and stand around the three point line waiting for a double team down low. It is easier to play a spot role on a good team than it is a bad team. You want tell me that Gerald Green wouldn’t look very good for 10 minutes or so a game running the break in Pheonix getting the ball from Nash and hitting open threes after Marion or Staudamire get double teamed? Or what about playing the Craig Hodges or Steve Kerr role in the triangle for the Lakers? He could absolutely get minutes in a lot of places for his shooting touch alone. Could he start in those places? No way because he is a defensive liability right now. But he is only 20 years old for God’s sake.

“Look at all of the "contending teams” in the league and then tell me that every starter on all 12 or so teams is better than Gerald Green will ever be."

Well at this point he’ll have to improve on every aspect of his game to be a starter on any team. The only thing he brings is three point shooting, and he gets that off standing still, not from moving to open spots on the floor.

There’s zero chance he’d start for Dallas, San Antonio, Phoenix or Detroit given thier current rosters.

“There’s zero chance he’d start for Dallas, San Antonio, Phoenix or Detroit given thier current rosters.”

True, but can you say the same thing with any confidence in three years? I dont’ think so.

“You want tell me that Gerald Green wouldn’t look very good for 10 minutes or so a game running the break in Pheonix getting the ball from Nash and hitting open threes after Marion or Staudamire get double teamed?”

Who would they bench to get him minutes? He sure as hell isn’t getting them over Barbosa or Raja Bell. You might convince me that he could in a couple years beat out James Jones, but for the extra 2% of three point % you get from Gerald you dont’ get the guy that moves without the ball or plays 5X better defense.

“True, but can you say the same thing with any confidence in three years? I dont’ think so.”

Projecting into the future should never be done with a tremendous amount of confidence. I don’t expect you to understand since you’ve missed Ian’s point from the first second of this thread.

Assuming we don’t trade for Gasol (and in the process give up Jefferson)if Ainge tries to add another big time veteran to go with Pierce won’t we be paying on four close to max type salaries? Pierce, Jefferson (when his extension is done), Wally and said veteran? How close does that put us into luxury land? Theo would most likely be part of a trade but I can’t see Wally going anywhere. Assuming that Danny wants Al here to go with Paul what kind and how expensive of a vet can we afford? I hate to say it but I can see either Paul or Al being somewhere else next year.

Green has the talent and athleticism to be better than Pierce. It’s just not clear if and/or when Gerald will reach that potential.

 “True, but can you say the same thing with any confidence in three years? I dont’ think so.”

Projecting into the future should never be done with a tremendous amount of confidence. I don’t expect you to understand since you’ve missed Ian’s point from the first second of this thread. "

I didn’t miss his point at all. Since you have reverted to being insulting and rude, I will take that as surrender that in fact yes I won the argument.

Aren’t Diaw and Diop examples of teams undervaluing their youth. These guys represent the sort of Joe Johnson thing that Ainge wants to avoid…trading future dollars for pennys. I think Danny is learning that sometimes the best trades are the ones you don’t make. Before all is said and done, Philly will look like chumps for not trading Iverson for Jefferson or Green.

ReggieR said:

“Philly will look like chumps for not trading Iverson for Jefferson or Green.”

Yeah, but the real chumps are the Nuggets for taking him.

“Yeah, but the real chumps are the Nuggets for taking him.”

Yeah but they got him for nothing and they were not going anywhere anyway. They may not like where they go with Iverson, but I don’t think anyone in Denver is going to go “if only we had kept Andre Miller things would be great”.

If they had kept Andre Miller they would still have snuck into the playoffs and they wouldn’t be paying luxury tax for the next two years.

Also take a look at the Nuggets’ March schedule. A playoff spot is by no means assured, particularly if the Clips can get their act together.

But back to the point of this thread. Some here assume that Ainge is going to make that “magical” trade over the summer that will propel the Celtics into the playoffs and keep Pierce happy.

There is probably no such trade, and even if there is, the Celtics will have to swallow two bitter pills: the loss of at least one prized prospect (Jefferson or Green), and (2) a substantial luxury tax bill for at least two years.

“I didn’t miss his point at all.”

Yeah you really did.

I’m still waiting to hear who Green would play over in Phoenix…

“If Gerald develops into the the player I think can be he will be better than anyone on the Suns not named Nash or Stoudamire.”

So you think Gerald has the potential to turn into a player better than this.

21.5 PPG, 10.7 RPG, 1.7 APG, 2.1 SPG, 1.5 BPG and FG% at 51.9% and FT% at 80.5%

“Same goes for Dallas anyone except the Big German fellow.”

19.2 PPG, 7.1 RPG, 1.9 APG, 1.2 SPG, .9 BPG, 46.1 FG, 80.7 FT

It should be noted that I think he’s got the ability to score at the levels of each of these players, but even doubling his numbers on the rest of the board don’t come close to stacking up.

“There is probably no such trade, and even if there is, the Celtics will have to swallow two bitter pills: the loss of at least one prized prospect (Jefferson or Green), and (2) a substantial luxury tax bill for at least two years.”

Absolutely.

i would rather stick with our youth.. please show some loyalty to our players instead of talking about trading about them constantly.. GG is not just great talent.. and he wants to be great..

NASH was once a Sun..traded to Dallas.. and let go by them.. so when nash was his second year(when he was traded to Dallas).. did anybody think he’s going to be a 2-time MVP???? The irony here is Dallas let him go.. it took NASH ten years ..to become a MVP
who else do you like to know about Billups? JJ? Jermaine Oneal?? Even Shaq.. Even Kobe(trade away by Hornets) ARENAS??? (who here think Arenas was going to be a MVP candidate when he was traded away by the Warriors.. for nothing)…

I rather have someone who wants to play for the Celtics like GG .. and who wants to win for himself, team and the fans…

Phil Jackson.. PP .. and Kobe.. sees great potential in him.. you haters can keep hating.. i will keep loving my celics and GG.. and AJ..

“Look at the Mavs … their talent isn’t all that impressive. Dirk and Howard vs. Pierce and Al … pretty much a wash. Then, the Mavs have Terry, Stack, and that’s about it. They just have good coaching and a few vets.”

No. This is not true. No. Part of what makes Dirk and Howard is their chemistry. their coaching, and their intangibles. I’m not talking down Al and Paul, I’m just saying that it’s not fair to the Dirk and Howard to say that if they switched places the numbers would be the same.

WANTED: Coach

Someone who can teach basketball 101

Requirements: ?

Roy said:

However, to make it more understandable, what if the exec said “The other problem with thinking you can build around [Brandon Roy or Randy Foye or Rudy Gay or Lamarcus Aldridge or Robert Swift] is that on a good team — a team that’s contending for conference championships — they’re all going to be second-string players”

I’m being intentionally obtuse, because I think a team would be fine building around 1-2 of those type players, but the idea that you’re going to be able to build around them all is silly.

If the belief is that they’ll build around Pierce, Jefferson and this year’s draft pick, then by nature the rest of the guys we have on this roster are either going to be role playing starters or bench guys.

“Because Brandon Roy isn’t good enough to start for Phoenix or Dallas as a rookie, does that mean he’s not good enough to build around?”

I don’t think I ever said that. I’d rather have Roy than Green under the assumption that I’m building around Jefferson and this years pick for what its worth.

*I should have gotten back to this earlier but that whole ‘work thing’ got in the way:)

A question asked earlier in the thread if someone is not totally sold on Durant yet. I am the opposite, I am totally sold on him. That’s not to say I still don’t consider Oden if we end up with the overall #1 pick. The next few months will tell more.

I was sold on Aldridge last year and even more so with Durant this year. Don’t know what they are feeding those Longhorn boys but it’s working.

Coach Self of KU is saying Durrant is already the best ever to play out of the Big 12. Former KU star and NBA player Danny Manning saying Durrant is better than he ever was in college and Manning saying he should be in Magic Johnson and Larry Bird’s catagory.

As with most others, I would be one happy Celtic fan with either Oden or Durrant.

• Note: other than these 2 cats, there is no other player I would take in 07’ draft compared to Aldridge. It’s a shame when Toronto was wanting to move down, Danny didn’t bite. I would have done #7, Gomes and Allen for the #1 pick (Aldridge) every year for 100 years.

Reports all last summer how Bosh and Aldridge practiced over the summer and even competitive one on one games, Aldridge won 1/2 of the them. Talented big men are so hard to find. Several games ago Aldridge was 9 for 12 from the field. Last game they finally start him and he goes off for 30 points, on 12 for 19, 6 boards, 2 blocks.

I begged Danny to go get Aldridge prior to the 06’, and he didn’t do his homework. You give me a rookie big man that can do 70% of what Bosh does now and you have me at “hello”.

Danny, no need to go to Austin, no need to do any homework. Play rock, scissors, paper or whatever, just get either Oden or Durrant if we get a top 2 pick. This is a no brainer.

Brikowski,
Any chance at all Splitter falls to the 2nd round? I’ve heard rumblings his buyout is going to be high.

Last year was all about saving one large crappy year on a salary, and poor judgment on Danny’s part.

I would have gladly seen Celtic management eat one extra year of Raef’s salary and come away with a talented big man like Aldrige (minus #7, Gomes, Allen) for the next dozen years.

• Aldridge/Jefferson would have put sparkles in my eyes for the next dozen years.

Oden/Jefferson or Durrant/Jefferson does the same thing- God willing.

I don’t see Splitter falling below #20. His buyout isn’t that expensive any more.

hi there jeff.
i love your blog; it’s my daily celtics fix (aint easy being a celtics fan – or for that matter NBA fan – here in Brazil.
all this talk about talent evaluation and need for veterans and all that has kinda inspired me. call me naive but i do not see such a bleak future ahead. if you ever have the time, drop by my blog (http://posterized.blogspot.com). I’ve just written an unnervingly long piece on how the Celtics just might have a shot at contention in 2008-09. That assumes we land Oden and Big Al and his comrades keep up their games, but I still think it’s possible.

the direct link to that piece is http://posterized.blogspot.com/2007/03/boston-celtics-2008-09-nba-champions.html

Feel free to call it wishful thinking but in that post I try to sort out how the Celtics could have a starting five of Chauncey Billups, Paul Pierce, Wally, Al, Oden in 2008-09 (and without having to give Green up!) :)

Ainge attends Texas game to see Durrant! I just watched a replay of the Texas A&M (ranked nationally at #6) vesus Texas (ranked 16th) and wonder if this was the game Danny attended (played 28 Feb.)?

Durant’s game reminds me of Gerald Green’s game. Durrant has more rebounds but from what I saw he is more a positional rebounder where his 6’9" size is enough. He’ll have to work much harder in the pros to become a bonofide rebounder. He doesn’t seem to go after the ball like Jefferson currently does but relys on his size and athleticism.

While I tuned into the game to see Durrant, the most impressive (and clutch) player that I saw was the Texas A&M PG, Acie Lewis. In trying to compare him to another NBA player, his game most closely resembles that of Michael Redd although Lewis is a better passer. This kid has a great stroke and exceptional handles and can get his shot off against anybody.

If there is a concern with Lewis as an NBA PG it could be that he would seek to maintain the role of the “go-to” guy and become a shoot- first PG. He’s the best PG prospect I’ve seen this year and would easily become a reliable Celtic scoring option since he shoots for average and has “ice” in his veins when it comes to making clutch shots.

I’ll tell ya what this season has come to for me…I’m sitting here watching the ESPN scoreboard, praying that Memphis will win, and shook up as The Grizzlies and Philly go into overtime…What a way to live!!!

“addded an Eastern Conference exec”…Do ya think that this dude should have bothered to run this through a spell check?

Seriously, though, quotes from “one Eastern Coneference” exec do not necessarily mean that there is any kind of concensus out there concerning our youngsters. Ask another and he could say something very different. Brian Coangelo is definitely very high on some of our players. He actually waited for Rajon outside of the Celtics locker room after a preseason game just to talk to him, he was impressed that much by the kid’s play.

When I look at Al I see a guy who finally had the game “click” for him. He went from being mediocre to very good virtually overnight. If you only took his numbers as a starter this season, he would be the fourth leading rebounder in the league. He used to not be able to go 10 minutes without picking up 3 fouls, now he plays 35 to 40 without a whiff of foul trouble most nights. He has made a huge leap during this season.

Gerald may suck out loud some nights, but on the nights that he is on, he is unguardable. When Rajon is having a good shooting night, which have been few and far between so far, he is the best player on the court. The thing is that Al used to be just like them. He would have his “on” nights, impress the hell out of people, and then would go another 6 to 7 games without doing much. The talent was there, though, and that is why many of us were so high on him. Remember him whipping Shaq and Zo late in his rookie year? He wasn’t just playing OK on his on nights, he was playing great. I see the same thing in the other two. They are taking the game over when they are on. That is the mark of a very good player.

So what does that mean? It means that we have to be patient. They are eventually going to be consistent, we just have to wait for that to happen. I think that Gerald is the one who will “click” first. He is very close to it right now. Who knows, maybe the Knicks game was THE GAME, you know what I mean? The one where he says to himself “There’s where my points are!!”, and he just goes on a tear. I’m willing to wait.

moskqq, I saw Acie Lewis come into Allen Field House in Lawrence KS, and almost single handily took care of KU as they came back and he hit shot after shot. Look up “clutch” in the dictionary and that’s this kid. I haven’t seen enough of his games yet to know yet how he’ll handle pro ball, but in college he’s a “player”.

There is a difference between being a starter on a championship contending team and a mediocre/crappy one. Barbosa could start on a lot of good teams, and a player like Maggette would start on a bad one. Ricky Davis was better off the bench than being a starter, but on our bad squad he felt he should start, and he was probably right. Ainge tried to sign McDyess to be a starter, but he went to the Pistons to come off the bench. Stackhouse in Dallas, Antoine in Miami, etc. People should keep this in mind when rating which young players are “future starters.”

I guess that when I post I ought to be awake enough to at least spell names correctly. In my previous post I mispelled Durant (not Durrant) and I completely blew the name of Acie Law (not Acie Lewis). Apart from my unfamiliarity with Acie Law’s name he’s still an outstanding talent that should have a fine, if not outstanding NBA career. Should the Celtics miss on Oden or Durant, I would be comfortable with them trading down to get Acie Law plus a veteran big or draft choices etc.

We need one more veteran that is a legitimate #2 option. We can’t continue to wait for every young player to emerge. Our youth is killing us in crunch time. IMO, Paul Pierce will give us the offseason; but the market appears to be favorable for trading youth for experience AS opposed to trading Pierce. Danny needs to step up this offseason OR go.