Thanks Jeff, now I’ll have Eric Idle singing in my head all day…

Doc Rivers – That’s the ordinary rabbit!

Isn’t Big Al on his way to becoming a “great center”? If Perk were healthy he is a good complement to Big Al. What we need is to be able to consistently get the ball into Al. Oden won’t do that. Player and team development and chemistry will. It’s starting to happen now.

I think Gred Oden and Clifford Ray are the same person.

we can all dream, can’t we. what i would like you to do jeff, is to put in a feature on clifford raye, who could be our most valuable asset. he has done wonders for big al and certainly would help and serve as a valuable lure for any big man looking to improve his game.

I thought Jonothan Givony made a good point last night about moving Al Jeff to the 4 and the defensive implications of asking him to guard quicker forwards who are likely to stretch the floor. I think maybe there are similar questions about making use of a Durant – who can himself stretch the floor and take advantage of the doube teams that Al will command down low (also pointing to the problems of clogging the middle with an Oden/ Al combination down low i.e. Can Oden play the high post?) Wonder what others think about these arguments….

Considering we are 3 games ahead of memphis for the #2 spot in the draft, and 5 1/2 games behind the #3 team, i think its safe to say we are getting Durant or Oden now, and i really can’t find one complaint if i get one player instead of the other. I’d also be open to canning both Danny and Doc after the draft. Let everything that has happened in these last 4 years be forgotten and start a real “new era”. Danny’s talent is clearly drafting, as he hit gold with Al. Taking Gerald at 18 was as easy as taking durant or oden in the top 2, so he doesn’t get credit for that one, but the delonte drafting was a nice one at 24. Maybe Rick Adelman could straighten out some of Danny’s redundant trades for big contracts with injured players. I wonder how many games Raef, Theo, and Wally have missed combined with their total salaries….Ugh

I’m willing to let the season play out & see what happens in the draft. Yes, a top 3 pick would be great, but even if you go the ML approach, there are no guarantees.

Remember the biggest knock on the Celts is their youth & inexperience. Adding a 1 yr college player (even one as talented as Durant or Oden) won’t right the ship immediately. They’ll most likely need a full season to acclimate themselves. (See: James, LeBron)

My hope is that the Celts manage to win some games down the stretch & still get a top 5 pick.

I still think one or 2 vets will have to be added, even if it’s at the expense of Green, or some other player.

If we get Oden: PLEASE, WYC, get us a defensive oriented coach.

I have a man crush Durrant but it is easy to forget how nice Oden would be. Since Snack has gotten old, there really isn’t anyone in the league like him. Tim Duncan is great but he really is more of a 4 and is not a dominant defender. Ben Wallace is a real dominant 5 defender but has a very limited offensive game. I think Oden would immediately be a Wallace like defender and in a couple of years have a near Duncan like low post game. A front court of Oden and Jefferson would make the Celtics championship contenders for the next decade or more. No one could match up with them. Think about all of the doubles Al Jefferson draws right now. Then imagine a guy like Oden left to clean up the boards. With Oden on the other side of the post, Jefferson wouldn’t even have to pass, just throw up a shot and watch Oden get the rebound. That doesn’t even consider the amount of space it would give Pierce. If the Celtics get Oden, they win 50 games next year and go to at least the Eastern Conference finals.

By the way Jeff, I have no interest in upgrading the point guard spot. That’s the least of their worries, Delonte haters notwithstanding.

I do have serious interest in upgrading our defense at the 2,3 and 4. We need Scottie Pippen circa 1992.

I was about to ask about the Cs uni Oden is wearing in the picture. Why use Rondo’s #9? If we get Oden he will be wearing his #20, which number amazingly is still available. I believe there is a reason #20 is available. ;D

I agree about the point position. forget it. I see it differently than Brick I think as I think we morph from dw for 32 and rondo for 18 to rondo for 36 and dw for 12 as a couple years pass.(dw will get 20 more minutes at shooting guard) But this is a solid point situation we have. Both guys are fine. Neither DJ nor Ainge were natural points either. Rondo is. West is fine and getting better.

If Rondo looks like he isn’t getting it mid year next year, be positioned to do something, that would obviously be smart.

With a little luck and lots of hard work, the folks here will be talking about a title by mid year next year

if we get oden, it’ll be all good very soon. he’s not the typical young player. unlike the limited and inconsistent impact of big al or gerald in their first 2 years, oden will immediately be a defensive stud. he will force al to the 4, where he is much better defensively (not undersized). strong interior defense will let our wing players be more aggressive, basically because guys who beat them will have to think twice about driving to the hole to messieurs oden and jefferson. this will make everyone on defense better. if we get oden, i say we will be a legit contender in the east NEXT YEAR, so long as everyone stays healthy.

Oden would be my first choice as well….if we get the number 1 pick.

Hope for the best, plan for the worse….right?….

If we get Oden I hope Jefferson spends a lot of time this off season to develope that mid range jumper because he would need to have that shot working along with his low post play to make room for Oden to operate down low, becasue Oden doesn’t have any semblance of a mid range shot. Jefferson is going to need to work on his passing game as well, and finally Jefferson holds the ball to long before he decides what he’s going to do with the ball so I hope he works on that after this season if finish.
Oden gives Boston a real center something they haven’t had for sooo very long. His presence will enable players to take more chances at scoring knowing they have Oden as their back up. If they get Oden they need to make a trade for a good point guard to go along with Rondo who will be our pg for years to come.
If they choose Oden Boston still needs a starter to hit open jumpers and that’s where Green could and should come in as a starter either at the small forward position or the shooting guard position.
So the line up should look like this next season with Oden.
Rondo – Pierce
Jefferson- Green- Oden, Green only starts if Tony Allen isn’t able to play with the same tenacity he had before the injury, other wise Allen gets the shooting guard position.
Still with Green coming off the bench Boston will prove to have a formiable bench to go along with a potent starting line up.
If Boston gets Durant I may consider trading Paul Pierce for a center piece depending who that piece is and provided that piece can put in at least 5 years of service !
With players like Durant, Jefferson, Green, and Allen Boston will have more than enough offense to compete with anyone in the league provided that their pg is able to manage the distribution of the ball to the right players in the right spots. Durant can shoot the ball all over the court inside and outside, he handles the ball like a guard, his quickness demands a double team, he’s a natural scorer, so with that said Jefferson should have a field day scoring on his man in the paint. Tony is a slasher who will also benefit from Durant abilities to score from anywhere and handle the ball with ease.
Gerald Green’s game is somewhat similiar to that of Durant’s so if Boston were to keep him they would have two guys on the floor that could put it up from all over the court and the defense would be spreaded like jelly on bread, leaving the lane wide open for the point guard and Jefferson and anyone else that wants to take advantage of those wide lanes.
If they keep Paul Pierce his scoring should get much easier if he takes advantage of the mid range game. My fault with Pierce is that he dribbles too much and stagnates the offense with his dribbling and poor passing. Pierce is a much better catch and score player than he possibly knows, I’ve been watching him since he came into the league, and when he catches and shoots without over dribbling he’s nearly unstoppable.
If we take Oden Pierce will still be the main focus for offense then Jefferson.
If we take Durant the ball gets shared a lot more because of all the offensive possibilities and I’m sure the point guard would like this second option morre than the first.

Jeff, I really wonder about your statement, " …I believe the team is looking to be more aggressive …".
I don’t see them moving their core young guys anytime soon. Delonte is excellent in a 3 guard rotation, Jefferson will start for years to come, Ryan Gomes makes our 8/9 man rotation easily, Tony Allen is hurt … other teams won’t look at him with any interest until he comes back and re-proves himself (at least a calendar year from now I’d think), and it’s too early to judge Gerald’s worth either to the team, or to other teams.
So I don’t see the scenario where we add a veteran star in trade for our youth.
I see them moving out Telfair and Ratliff, and potentially making Minny’s #1 pick in 2008/2009 available. I see them bringing in a veteran PG (20-25 minutes a game), and to get defensive help (shot blocking/rebounding) in the middle. ANd of course, we have this year’s pick to help this scenario play out (It would be WILD if Oden actually ended up being that shot blocking/rebounding solution).
This scenario is on the low-end of the risk meter, doesn’t add huge $, shows a continued commitment to the youth movement, and will give fans a .500 or so team that will contest for the playoffs (of course, if we do get Oden, the team’s upside will be higher).

can oden shoot the three? because you know doc will put him up top after he gets benched for putting up some 10pts 13 reb games(perk) to earn back playing time he will have to shoot the trey like scals our starting center.
all kidding aside doc will be gone by then.

Great read, Jeff.

I think that our chance of having the most ping-pong balls is gone. Memphis just isn’t good enough. And what many contended early on – that the young talent would make this a better team as the year went on – is coming to fruition. Al Jefferson has made this a different team. Al’s a stud. For the first time in over a decade, the Celts have a legit low-post threat.

On the good side, the Celts would have to pick up 5 games with only 23 left to fall out of the #2 slot. It may happen, but I doubt it. Philly is playing well…they’ll finish with around 30 wins, a # the Celts probably can’t touch. Portland and Seattle are playing better, so I doubt any team in the West falls short of 30 wins. That leaves Milwaukee, Charlotte and Atlanta with 22 wins, 5 ahead of the Celts.

What’s the over/under on Celts’ wins at this point? 28? I can’t see them with a winning record the rest of the way, 4 game streak aside. I also think Milwaukee and Charlotte will both win at least that many. What I can see happening is Atlanta falling completely apart. The Atl game next week may be huge as far as who winds up #2.

Assuming we get #1 or #2, I’m with Pierce, I would rather see the pick traded along with the Ratliff contract and one or two youngsters for a solid NBA talent, or possibly 2 solid talents. I’m not completely convinced Oden is that great of a talent (alla Duncan), and while I would love to see Durant on the C’s he’s still not a garaunteed hit (how many #1s have been a bust after much hype?).
I love the win streak! Love the idea of 1-2 pick, but would like to see it translate in solid, proven, NBA help. I would also like to see Wyc and co put their money where their mouth has been and sign a top FA this summer since it will be a buyers market.

“how many #1s have been a bust after much hype?”.

The better question is “how many number ones have been busts after this much hype? The answer is very few. The fact is some people really are Snack or LaBron or Tim Duncan. Go back and look at all of the number one overall picks and then look separate the "best coming out his year” players like Pervus Ellison or Glen Brickdog Robinson from the “this guy is the best player in … years” kind of player and you will find that the really hyped, can’t miss, next superstar players, ussually are. The only two really can’t miss superstar number ones who ever really missed were guys who were flakes like Derrick Coleman or Just Breathing Carroll or got hurt like Ralph Sampson. In contrast, look at Patrick Ewing, Hakeem, David Robinson, Snack O’Neil, Tim Duncan, LaBron James type of prospects. Oden and Durrant both are the Ewing Hakeem type of players, not the ordinary number 1s. If the Celtics get the chance at either of those two, Paul can shut the hell up and like it. No way do you trade that pick.

we’ll just win it this year, we don’t need no stinking draft

If the C’s pick up Durant, GGreen becomes a trade chip. Along with Theo’s contract that could net a quality vet or two.

If Oden drops into their laps, all bets are off. I doubt Ainge would ever trade the #1 pick and I don’t know if PP could stomach another season of ‘teaching’ ie: losing. Lottery day is going to be VERY interesting this year…

I"m glad I’m not danny ainge…If the pick is in the top 2…under no circumstances do you trade it…no way!!!!It would be hard to pass up a guy who can score and rebound as easily as durant…Thats a guy with his length and ability to shoot the ball who would contribute right away..Oden is obviously not as polished on offense defensively he changes everything.s But I think you still need one more guy here…whether Wally finally has a health season..or you trade theo’s contract…But you gotta add something in addition to the top pick…they are not going to play themselves out of the top five….

Is it just me or does Oden have “Tyson Chandler” written all over him???

Derrick Coleman was, at one time, probably the most talented player in the NBA, he just didn’t care. Pervis, Joe Smith, Olowokandi, Kwame Brown, Ralph Sampson (not about being injured), Bogut (jury still out), all can be considered busts or “marginal” #1 choices. Not saying I don’t like Oden or Durant, they both look great, but there are no garauntees they are franchise player locks. I think in the grand scheme of things I would rather trade for something proven (Jermaine ONeal, Kevin Garnett, Emeka Okafor), and still have the assets that we have to land another potential big name (Gasol) for additional power. At this moment the only players I would not be willing to part with for upgrades are Al and Paul (and possibly Rondo depending on the next 4-6 weeks).

what if we get Oden??? we say thank you and move on…Jeff,great work as usual…

I repectfully disagree with you, Jeff, on your comment about a “double low post”.. That offensive scheme clogs the middle making drives to the basket impossible and passes into the paint difficult because you now have two defenders protecting the paint. Even if you feed the inside, the congestion doesn’t allow either Oden or Jefferson much room to maneuver inside.

As for increased rebounding with a double low post, remember that the defenders usually have inside position. We have never been outstanding from the outside (recall our ineffectiveness aginst zone defenses). The way to play with two primarily “inside” players (Jefferson and Oden) is to systematically ROTATE them through the paint forcing defenses into defensive switches which eventually exposes passing lanes inside. Rotating big men in and out of the paint alternately leaves the paint open for drives inside with the option of taking it to the basket or dishing off to a big trailing the play.

Another way to manage two bigs is through the use of a high and low post with a big at the foul line and rotations underneathe. The big at the foul line must be a good passer and be able to make open shots from the foul line. That was an offensive scheme the Wolves used with the “Big Ticket” at the foul line. It was also the reason he had so many assists.

Addendum: Our lack of an effective “perimeter” game causes defenses to sag inside further adding to the congestion caused by a defended double low post.

Some good comments on board today. Even though some are tired of heari ng about the draft possibilities, what else are we as fans going to do? Until May 22 all we can do is talk and speculate. It’s what fans do.

I agree with JohnK, we may not need to trade for “veteran” help. Next year will be Perk’s fifth and Jeffersons’s and D. West’s fourth etc. While we’ve been talking about trading youth for experience our youth have been becoming experienced. Paul should still have another 4 to 5 years of being effective.

As I have said before, I don’t know medicine that well but if Theo can come back healthy next year, wouldn’t he, likely, be as effective or more than a first or second year Oden? And would his expiring contract the following year be beneficial to the Celts for money to pick up a free agent with or to extend the contracts of current players who had proved themselves by then?

Also, posters are always talikng about trading for " a quality veteran" but I think that would be more beneficial if more posters could state which “quality veteran” they might be considering as some have done. It seems to me that any “quality veteran” would command a high price that would take some of the quality people we already have to get them. J.O. and K.G. names keep coming up but J.O.‘s health has been a problem to worry about and K.G. is starting on the downside of his career. Okafor and Gasol might be the most desirable because of their age but don’t we already have someone like them in Big Al?

There’s also posters that are wondering about “clogging the middle” if we play both Jefferson and Oden but aren’t we doing that right now with Jefferson and Perkins. Haven’t other teams been successful using “twin towers” – Houston with Hakeem and Sampson come to mind.

Re Frakie G.; There’s nothing wrong with playing “twin Towers” per se. The point of contention is HOW you use them. As in a rotating system where the “twin Towers” alternately course through the middle or when they are used in a high-low post arrangement, versus a more “stagnant” double low post.

We have already used Perkins and Jefferson in the double low post to no avail. They get in each others way and have been mostly ineffective in that offensive scheme. An effective coach will always match the offensive scheme to the talent available. What works for one team may not work for another due to varying athleticism and skill levels.

Carter liked a defensive scheme where a big left the inside to race to the perimeter to stop the forward progress of a PG going around a pick. That defensive scheme can work if your bigs are fast and athletic because they must quickly retreat to protect the inside. A good PG can expose the flaws in this defensive scheme but his timing and passes require quick reflexes and precision. Fortunately, there aern’t that many good PGs.

Carter’s system worked initially but wise coaches eventually noted the conceptual flaws and the system gradually proved ineffective.

moskqq brings up a great point about using big men in a high-post, low-post tandem. Ideally, one of the big men has the versatility to step outside and spread the floor. Otherwise, you get clogging.

I wouldn’t turn away Oden, but a young center like Darko could end up being a better complement for Al. He’s got the size and shot-blocking on defense, but could space the floor much better than Oden would offensively.

Ideally, we’d end up with a highpost-lowpost pairing like Utah has in Okur-Boozer.

I like Oden. I don’t get the hype. He is a solid player on a very good team. I really like Durant. He makes things happen. Every time I see him play, I am amazed. I want to give Oden the benefit, I just don’t see it.

I think all this talk now about the draft is a waste of time. Our focus should be on the present team getting better, finishing the season on a high note and take it into next season. Winning helps that goal. Let’s focus on first things first. The draft will take care of itself. We can do something about this team improving. We have no control over the draft.

Boston is quietly amassing the veteran players they need
Jefferson, West Allen and are in their 3rd year of play for the C’s and if by their 4th season they aren’t considered veterans then will someone please define a veteran player. All three have played very well this year and I would expect them to play even better next year. Gerald Green is playing out his second season and by next year he should be much more prepared to play at a higher level of profession basketball, Even Telfair has been in the league now for 2 full seasons and will be in his 3rd year of play next season and should be a lot more servicable for whatever team he’s playing on.
So the reason I’m pointing this out is because I think Boston will have the experience they need to compete next season and the veteran leadership many say they need has been quietly developed on the team and should be ready for most anything that could happen in a game or to a team.
Personally I even see development in Doc Rivers as a coach, I think he’s coaching the team better this season than any other season he has coached. The teams injuries probably has a lot to do with Docs experiments but those experiment has been able to show us who can play and who can’t.If Paul’s hadn’t gotten injured Tony Allen may have been in Doc’s dog house for a long time. Gerald got more time because of Wally’s injury. Rondo flat out out played Telfair and West as a point guard though he can’t shoot, if he had a decent jumper West would be Rondo’s back up. Powe proved he can rebound and stand strong against nearly any opponent he plays against

Jeff,
Thanks for putting me in fantasy land, I enjoyed the article. It’s nice to read an optimistic story about the potential future of the club and the ramifications one player on a 15 man roster can have.
 I know, it’s about a 20% chance at this point but it’s a chance.

moskqq, if you’re still around, what’s your take on the way Parish and McHale played together?

Hi Frankie! Back in the days of McHale and Parish we had GREAT ball and player movement. Red always believed that you had to keep defenses jumping and ball and player movement was the means. Zone defenses were a rarity because Bird could kill you from the outside and Hondo/ Ainge/ Dennis Johnson all had a midrange game. All of those guys could pass too and they knew the type of pass to throw. The ball movement then makes today’s ball movement seem like slow motion.

McHale could step outside and hit the three too. Both players knew to stay out of the paint when the other one was maneuvering inside and only trailed the play after the shot was taken.

But comparing Jefferson/Perkins to Parish/McHale is impossible because you are attempting to compare developing players to “top 50 all-time greats”.

One must also not view Parish and McHale as though they existed in a vacuum. They were surrounded by great players who could and would shoot so defenses had to respect perimeter play as well as react to penetrations thereby uncovering someone in the process.

Great answer moskgg. I especially liked your comment on P & M NOT playing in a vacuum and that they were surrounded by great players. You might also have added that those great players played TOGETHER for many years. I think the same logic should apply to this team. Instead of a team of great players we have a team of players learning the game all playing together for a short period of time. That’s how they should be judged. We have many players who individually are good and have the potential to be very good. Let’s just stay on the road we’re traveling. We’re starting to see results.

Sorry, but ending the season “on a high note” doesn’t mean much to me. There is so much time in the offseason and most likely a good amount of roster change that no one really cares what happend at the end of Spring. If you are out of the playoffs and finish the season with 10 wins in a row or 10 losses in a row, WHO CARES. The C’s have won games lately because they have played hard and scrapped….which is basically what they have done all year. The majority have always played hard and you can’t just ‘lose’ games, but winning is the most counterproductive thing this team can do at this point.

So lets try to forget this whole winning now helps us going into next year. At this point, no it really doesn’t. Everyone in the organization knows they need some different personel in order to win and these guys aren’t going to magically form into a contender over the summer.

ced, we are winning now because Al Jefferson not only has blossomed as a player, but because the team is learning how to get the ball to him, PP is back in the lineup, other players, if not consistently, are stepping up nightly. You don’t teach a team to lose, you teach to win. And regardless of what anyone says or does, the players don’t listen anyway. They play to win games, not to jockey for position in the lottery draft. I agree we need personnel changes, but those changes are starting to come from within. I’m sure there’ll be roster changes from outside, but they won’t be made without due diligence.

I like the winning streak but think of the teams we played.
 Houston, no Ming no McGrady.
NJ, they have a nbdl front court.
Minnesota, a team at the same level as the Celtics but headed in opposite directions.
NY was the best team we played and they played without David Lee, there best rebounder and spark plug off the bench.
Don’t get me wrong, I like what I see as far as attitude and chemistry but at the same time, Al played 51 minutes and only got 15 shots against Minnesota. That has to improve and I’m sure it will.