No Truth. No King. No Fun?

It’s very difficult watching these games knowing what’s best for the franchise is a loss. I love the effort these kids are showing. Al has top 20 potential as his passing and defense are starting to develop. If Gerald can play like he did tonight on both ends of the court he really can be ‘an upper echelon player’ as Tommy said. And should Delonte works on his right he’s a going to be a great player as well. With all this said, this game against the Bucks now becomes a must lose. I love this team but we need to best position ourselves for this loaded draft.

I hope everyone associated with the team gets really excited about these meaningless wins when the Celtics lose out on one of the top two players. Of course, there are no guarantees in the lottery, but it does make sense, does it not, to have more chances than fewer. Maybe the owner’s dimwit wife can go parading through the locker room again with her girlfriends in celebration when they pass the Bucks in the standings.

Roy, there’s a shot at that whether they finish 2nd or 3rd worst, but not a likely one. Only once in 13 drafts since the weighting started in 1994, has the second worst team dropped to the fifth pick (2001). The clear third worst team (no ties), obviously your greater concern, has dropped to the fifth pick in 3 drafts (1995, 2000, 2005), and last year Charlotte and Atlanta tied for third worst, so split the third and fourth odds and Atlanta did end up with fifth pick.

So the reason to think otherwise is, the odds are not with you, mathematically or experientially. The reason to, is you’re a Celtics fan.

Hank, I love your posts and I’m interested in who you think we should take if we end up at #3 or #4. Also who would you take between Oden or Durant. Thanks!

celty86 – Thank you (others may not agree with your kind words). Well at #3 or #4, I hope the Cs do everything they can to trade that pick in combination with Gerald Green, either Theo or Wally, and other young players or picks to get an impact veteran and make a run at a conference title over the next 2-3 years.

If a big trade was not possible, I would also consider trading down a few slots to get a veteran point guard to start next year and allow Rondo time to develop and/or move Wally’s money (or at least most of it off the cap for 2008-09).

As you can probably tell, I’m not enamored with the talent after pick 2, for such a strong draft, slots 3 to 7-8 don’t strike me as great value. If pressed, and the pick is not moved, I take Brandan Wright, because his athleticism is off the charts, has the greatest chance at being a star of the rest, and the Cs could athleticism up front. After that, I like Horford more than Noah last year and I still do. Just has a nice feel for the game, seemingly, good basketball IQ. Mike Conley starts you thinking though if he comes out, but I’m not sure he adds to the mix a much as a big guy would.

Durant or Oden? Man, this is one of the toughest choices ever. I was Durant most of the year, just think he is a can’t miss, big-time probable all-time great. Oden has left me flat several times when I watch him, but the Cs need defense, and if they could roll out a team that had a 5 defender like Oden, a 1 like Rondo, and a wing like (hopefully if healthy) like Tony Allen, they could actually be an impact team at that end of the floor and just let Paul and Al handle much of the offense. In many ways that is a much better balanced team than Durant and Pierce at the wings, Al and Perk up front, and Rondo at point. But what a show that would be! Logic tells me Oden, m heart says Durant.

Roy, man we are into deep fatalism friend. 6 of 9? I may give you 5 of 9 with Pierce (but we know where this Pierce charade is heading, he’s not playing anymore, maybe they sneak him in for one game or two to make it look good [â€Å"Pierceâ€â"¢s valiant comeback that proves they are not tanking”], but they have been setting up this dog and pony show for awhile). I think any team with 28 wins already is pretty safe right now, theyâ€â"¢ll scratch out one win somewhere. So Atlanta. They have 2 games against the Bucks. If they split, then they have 28 wins and the Bucks have 26. If they are swept by the Bucks, then each has 27 wins, and the Bucks make themselves more difficult for the Cs to catch. Then thereâ€â"¢s the rest of the Hawkâ€â"¢s schedule which is in large part the Tankapalooza tour of Boston, Philly, and Indiana, along with seemingly marginally interested Cavs, Nets, and Wizards (God, the Eastern conference playoffs should just be cancelled).

The kick in the head will be when the Cs get the second worst record and Milwaukee ends up with a top 2 pick, we end up 3, and weâ€â"¢re all wrenching our hands saying â€Å"if only we had won two more games”! How’s that for pessimism Mr Hobbs!

Hankfinkel/Petula: very nicely written summary!

Wins over San Antonio, Toronto, Orlando and now Cleveland should eliminate the tanking talk — regardless whether Pierce plays — in my opinion. The future is unpredictable anyway so I’m enjoying watching this team play.

the problem is doc maybe trying to tank,but the players certainly will not and obviously will play to win at all cost.So danny cannot say to the players to lay off it, it will be up to the players whether they would lose it on purpose or not(like Madsen yanking 3’s al over the place last year so that the tankawolves would tie the C’s)..that wasn’t our fault and players though they know what is best for the team..they must be teached to win.I believe in karma and in the end we will get either Oden or Durant..It is written in the stars.

Roy, please don’t worry! Remember Danny didn’t even plan this. If Pierce had been healthy all season we would be looking at #9-#11. All this is just a gift (even #3 or #4). It’s all luck anyways so please try not to let it get you down. :)

Hank, thanks for the reply. You mention possible trades. Quick question, does Danny’s track record scare you regarding trades?

I don’t know what’s worse: trading our #7 pick for Telfair last year, or winning our way out of the second best chance in the lottery this year. If we let Milwaukee pass us, like we had to win the final game last year to let the T-Wolves slip in front of us, our management has lost its mind. Seriously, the majority of posters on this board could do a better job running this franchise. Do the right thing for Master Po!

Top shelf writing in the summary. Thankyou.

Hankfinkel, I mostly feel the same way exactly. Although part of me thinks that bringing in either guy from a back-to-back college champ will do some kind of wonder. (But then, I liked Anderson Hunt. Who you need to look up in Wikipedia. I mean, for fun, of course. Ouch.)

Nice to see this crew pull one off without PP.

As for the draft dilemma, has anyone noticed that Oden has spent what seems like half the Tourney on the bench w/foul trouble?

alan ray has looked clueless the past several games. save him for the bucks and have him cover redd. perk and al have been inspired. gerald has to react to the situation as he drives.

we are so close to being a good team. but for injuries….

on the other hand some were openly wishing for such a fate this year

celty86 – Whether I think a trade for a veteran is advisable if the CS get a 3rd or later pick and whether Ainge is a good drafter I treat somewhat independently, although your point/question is interesting. If Ainge drafts better than he trades, would the Cs be better off leaning on his drafting ability rather than getting the wrong veteran again? All of this gets into a lot of issues including how bad a trader has Ainge really been (I was originally ok with the Telfair trade even though Roy was my favorite player in the draft, so, even as a long-time Ainge defender, I no longer feel qualified to defend the Raef-Walker or Davis-Wally trades), the current vulnerability of the Eastern Conference (there may be no better time than to go for it now), and the satisfaction and maximal use of Pierce in his prime.

wiserguise – thank you for starting my morning with an Anderson Hunt reference. Sadly, I actually know who that is without resorting to Wikepedia! That was one talented UNLV team. Similarly, I liked the Cs pick of Michael Young (not Smith!) off of Hakeemâ€â"¢s and Clydeâ€â"¢s Phi Slamma Jamma Houston team!

Hankfinkel, I’m also Your Jarvis Basnight HeadQuarters! I had no doubt that the Wiki entry would be, in your case, purely “for fun.” He’s flippin’ burghas! (And I’m not really that mean… it’s just the coursening effect of teh interwebs. Big-love goes out to the man with the sweet teardrop jumper!)

It’s been hard not to notice that Oden has been a little a little underwhelming in the tournament, with good reason or not. But I’d be happy to have him, of course. That defensive unit you mentioned earlier is exciting to think about. It’s the sort of unit that wins big games.

On a side-note, I’m surprised that when Bill Simmons compared Oden’s demeanor to Robet Parish, he wasn’t being more effusive.

math says that to have the best chance at one of the top 2 picks in this lottery, you need to have one of the top two worst records. This is very true. However, math doesn’t like to tell everyone that those odds may take 1 billion draft simulations before those odds start coming to a reality. You only need one ping pong ball in any instaneous simulation to get one of the top 2 picks. Its all chance and to those that hate to see the Celtics win to try to get one of the top 2 records shame on you.

I think Milwaukee catches Boston. Odds are we will get 3rd of 4th pick. What about trading up by packaging Gerald Green and a protected number 1 pick next year for the 2nd pick? I know it would cost a lot, but that would be giving up a lot.

I just have to post what I hope some may still think, and that is forget this tanking talk. If anyone has even a thread of Celtic Pride left in them tanking is not a option. I can understand taking a more conservative stance in maybe sitting a player at this time of year as the games are meaningless and you don’t want further injury. Or giving playing time to those who might not have got it for evaluation, this happens whenever games are meaningless. But tanking on purpos? I’m sorry, and as for doing it for Master Po, please you never watched Kung fu…..Po would never instill that kind of bad Karma.

Celtic Pride! Play to win, whoever you put on the floor. Keep the Faith! Have faith that the pick will come regardless of the win loss effect but the Karma effect, and the faith that these meaningless games will solidify the youth for the future with wins.

On the 3rd or higher pick, I feel that if Memphis gets the 1, you will see that higher pick packaged to Memphis for Gasol, without PP, Rondo, Al, or Green…and I’d be all for it.