Oden's Father Says He's In

For those advocates of karma, how does us clinching the #2 spot for ping pong balls on the same day Oden’s dad says he’s coming out feel?

roy, that’s why we pray

We need the power of a collective mantra/[rayer/ Any suggestions?

Dickerson interviewed Pagliuca, Grousbeck and Epstein during halftime of last night’s game and I thought four things were very interesting.

1. Pagliuca did most of the talking. Does this mean that Grousbecks’ role is diminishing?

2. Pagliuca said something like “Our scouts tell us that there are 4-5 potential all-stars in this draft.” I thought I was the only one who actually believed that.

Was Pagliuca trying to prepare the fanbase for the inevitable letdown if the C’s don’t get Oden or Durant— i.e. just engaging in more spin control? Does this mean they are no longer planning to trade the pick— or was Pagliuca simply trying to improve its perceived value for trading purposes? Do they actually have a player in mind if the get the 4th or 5th pick? Ah questions, quetions.

3.What was Epstein doing there— and who is he, anyway? Is he the guy who recently put in a chunk of cash? Epstein never said a word and scowled the whole time. Does this mean there is dissension in happy valley? Are the Celtics now ruled by a triumvirate?

4. Where was Ainge, particularly when the questions du jour concerned the draft and Rivers? (Dickerson would never ask a question in that setting that was not a plant or a softball. For one thing, he wouldn’t know what to ask unless someone told him.) Has Danny fallen from grace a little? The owners gave the usual “we’ll wait until the end of the season” response on Rivers. I couldn’t get a read from it, but once again, I think it’s significant that the topic of Rivers’ extension made the script of that little play.

We have the best chance at Oden/Durant that we could have realistically gotten, but since it’s still only 39% I prefer to spend my energy thinking about who we should take with the #3-5 pick should our prayers not be answered. It seems to me that, aside from Oden and Durant, there are 2 types of players available: players will who almost definitely be solid NBA starting players who can help the Celtics a lot but who probably will never be All-Star caliber, and players who have huge upside potential but could also easily turn out to be busts. I put Horford and Splitter in the former category, and the Wrights, Hibbert, and Jianlian in the latter category.

From what I saw in the tournament, if Horford stays healthy he is a virtual lock to be a solid interior defender, rebounder, and passer who will be able to knock down the 17-footer. Any team would benefit from having a player with these skills, and he will probably have a long and productive career no matter where he ends up. But he lacks the quickness and offensive skills to be a major impact player in the NBA. From the little I’ve seen, I’d describe Splitter similarly. On the other hand, Brandan and Julian Wright have the physical tools to be absolutely spectacular NBA players, but, like Gerald, they are so raw that there’s no telling whether they will ever learn to translate their tremendous athleticism into NBA-level stardom, and even if they do it may well take 5-6 years. And Hibbert could be anywhere from a dominant NBA center to another in a long line of big men who are drafted for their height but never develop the strength and skills needed to be effective in the NBA.

And I have to disagree with those who have posted that Noah would fit in well with the C’s. Yes he would be tremendous defensive presence — and we certainly need that — but even after 3 years in a top college program his offensive game is so limited that with both Noah and Rondo on the court teams would be free to double AL and Paul on every play.

Of course, the beauty of Oden and Durant is that they have both qualities — they are locks to be solid NBA starters, and they are very likely to become major stars. But if the 61% odds win out over the 39%, and we can’t pry a Garnett or O’Neil away, Danny will have to make a choice between a blue chip and a speculative stock, and I’m not sure which way I want him to go.

Noah isnt even the best…or 2nd best prospect on the Florida Gators team. Corey Brewer will be the best one from that team, followed by Hordon. Even Taurean Green may be better than Noah…and this is coming from someone who likes Noahs game.

The dropoff after Oden and Durant is huuugggeee. If the Cs dont land a top 2 pick, Ainge better be working the phones to try and bring in an All Star (ala O’Neal, Garnett, Allen, etc)

Mike Conley, Jr., Brandan Wright, Julian Wright, Spencer Hawes and Corey Brewer are potential all-stars. I would put Rudy Fernandez in that group also.

Hibbert, Horford and Splitter are the kind of guys who are extremely valuable but who probably aren’t flashy enough to be all-stars. Many would also put Jeff Green in that group. Nick Young is a very solid player.

There are a dozen sleepers in this draft. Rodney Stuckey can flat out score, and DaShaun Wood is another exiting player than no one has heard of. And what about Derrick Byars? He’s just as good as Jeff Green in my opinion.

Jeff, that was Theo’s dad, he got a little confused and ended up at the wrong game…
Of course their selling 3-5…I mean of course…
He said some scouts, not “our scouts”…could very well be Boy Scouts…
That all three were there for the 50th anniversary facilitated their being interviewed together…Ownership speaks; no need for Danny; I’m sure he was busy buying Oden’s dad a Scorpion Bowl…(But now you’ve got me thinking…mmm…)
This interview was the first time in history that Dickerson didn’t make me want to Barf!…But, I agree with you, Jeff, it must have been choreographed beforehand…Far too smooth a transition from one query to the next, but nonetheless, informative and succinct (Man do I hate to say that).

Sorry, but I just dont think Brandan Wright will ever develop into an All-Star. Maybe Julian Wright, but he has a very longgg way to go.

I think Brewer will be the third best player in this draft behind Durant and Oden. If the Cs dont get a top 2, Brewer is the only guy that would be worth picking and not trading.

Brick, I saw that interview and took entirely different things from it. First, I think that what they all said was what is was. To me Pagliuca and Wyc talked about the same amount of time (didn’t actually time it). They are the most involved with the running of the team. Bob Epstein’s role is not known to me. I believe all three are involved in business ventures together outside of basketball. I don’t think Pagliuca tried to say anything, but that our basketball people think there are 5 good players in the draft. I didn’t think Bob Epstein’s look indicated dissension in the ranks. The questions weren’t really in his ballpark. I think the reason Ainge and Rivers weren’t there is because they weren’t asked to be and because the interview was with the three people chosen to be interviewed. To me the lack of comment on Doc’s extension was appropriate. It’s not our business and it’s something that won’t be done in public. It’s also not appropriate for anyone in management to discuss it. And I think another reason Ainge wasn’t there is that there was a general discussion about the draft and Danny probably would have been fined again for being in the vicinity. He also could have been in China and it would be a long commute for a 5 minute interview that really wasn’t intended for him.

Was Ainge in the building last night to honor the ’57 team. If the answer is no, the question is why not?

He was in China. Or Ohio. Or Texas.

After what Gomes and Doc said publicly, Noah may be the best player available when we pick….if we pick at all. It would be delusional to think Stern will give us, Atlanta, or Milwaukee any chance at the first two picks. If he does, he’s compromising his own integrity, as well as that of the NBA’s.

i am glad that oden probably will be in. i used to be a noah man but after watching him at the end of the year, you critics are correct- lots of flaws. brewer is definitely the man from the gators. after watching perk last night, he still has a long way to go. gadzurik, a second liner, ate him up. please- oden come our way.

Oden=Nate Thurmond
Durant=Kevin Garnett (best case)or Travis Outlaw (worst case)
Hawes=Brad Miller
Splitter=Dale Davis
Horford=Armon Gilliam
Brewer= Tayshaun Prince (best case) or Walt Williams (worst case)
Mike Conley= Chris Paul (best case) or Brevin Knight (worst case)
Roy Hibbert= John Thompson (Sr.)
Brandan Wright=Marvin Williams
Julian Wright= Scottie Pippin (best case) or Trevor Ariza (worst case)
Jeff Green=James Posey (best case) or Damien Wilkins (worst case)
Nick Young= Caron Butler (best case) or Flip Murray (worst case).
Noah=Anderson Varejao
Yi Jianlian=Channing Frye
Rudy Fernandez= right handed Manu Ginobili

As you can see, there is quite a spread betqween some of the best and worst cases, but sometimes it’s good to look at downside as well as upside.

The Celtics problem is they have lousy point guards and they can’t play defense. The Celtics when healthy can score on anyone. Next year, Al should be an 18 ppg guy, Pierce will be a 25 ppg guy Green and even a marginally healthy Wally should be able to fill the role of a third option standing around waiting for an open three. The problem will continue to be that the Celtics can’t stop anyone especially in the 4th quarter in close games.

Given that fact, if they don’t get Oden or Durrant, they have to draft for defense. The two best defenders in after Oden in the draft are Brewer and Hortford. Hortford would be a big upgrade over Perkins and Perkins and Hortford would be a pretty good 1-2 Center combination. Brewer at 6 foot 8 with long arms, great athleticism and decent jump shot would be a huge upgrade over Tony Allen. Either would make the Celtics into a much better defensive team. As much as I like Wright (I think he will be the third best pro to come out of this draft behind Oden and Durrant) I can’t see drafting him unless you are going to trade Pierce and start over. The same goes for Brenden Wright (who I think is an underachieving slug). Even if you like the guy, where does he fit in on the team if you are not trading Al Jefferson and how does he improve the team’s major weaknesses defense and point guard play? It is really too bad that there isn’t a Chris Paul like PG prospect in this draft, then the Celtics would be set. But alas we can all pray for Oden or Durrant.

Interesting comparisons, Brick. As you’ve probably seen, draftexpress.com does the same type of comparison, but with some different choices:

Oden = David Robinson (best case) or Emeka Okafor (worst case)
Durant = Dirk Nowitzki (best case) or Rashard Lewis (worst case)
Hawes = Andrew Bogut (best case) or Marc Jackson (worst case)
Splitter = P.J. Brown (best case) or Jeff Foster (worst case)
Horford = Emeka Okafor (best case) or Ronny Turiaf (worst case)
Brewer = Josh Smith (best case) or Trevor Ariza (worst case)
Conley = Chris Paul (best case) or Aaron Miles (worst case)
Hibbert = Zydrunas Ilgauskas (best case) or Boniface NDong (worst)
Julian Wright = Boris Diaw (best case) or Damien Wilkins (worst case)
Jeff Green = Boris Diaw (best case) or Luke Walton (worst case)
Nick Young = Jamal Crawford (best case) or Flip Murray (worst case)
Noah = Marcus Camby meets Boris Diaw (best case) or Anderson Varejao (worst case)
Yi Jianlian = Pau Gasol (best case) or Channing Frye (worst case)
Rudy Fernandez = Kevin Martin (best case) or Sasha Vujacic (worse case)

And one that wasn’t on your list:

Acie Law = Sam Cassell (best case) or Lynn Greer (worst case)

1st pick (best case) or 5th pick (worse case). See you May 22nd.

Well Splitter is Dale Davis with more range. Those were from the European 3 point line, not the NBA line. But as I said earlier, he does have an outside shot, which he uses much more when he plays for Brazil than when he plays at Tau. I’m glad to see his coach has decided to loosen the reins.

As for Draft Express, I like my comparisons better. I doubt of Jon Givorney and the other kiddies over there ever saw Nate Thurmond play. Heck, they probably never saw the young Dale Davis, as part of Clemson’s “Duo of Doom” with Elden Campbell.

Here are a few more:

Acie Law=Delonte West
DaShaun Wood=Nate Robinson

The player who will be the next Kevin Martin is Rodney Stuckey, not Rudy Hernandez.

Hibbert is nothing like Ilgauskas or N’Dong. He’s John Thompson, who was a pretty good player who unfortunately got stuck behind the best center ever to play the game. And Hibbert’s downside is someone like Wang ZhiZhi.

Nick Young = Jamal Crawford? Are you kidding? Crawford can’t defend a chair.

Acie Law is a very different player than Delonte.

Why, because he;‘s right handed? Both undersized combo guards who can shoot and defend. Delonte is probably a better passer, Law is a better dribble penetrator. Both smart players willing to take the big shot. It’s close enough for me.

Law is lefthanded as well.

And while they do share many similarities, their overall playing style if very different.

Think back to West’s playing style in college.

Brick, you might be on to something sir!:) Pagliuca at least played ball in his life he was a one I believe. I think he did anyway I tried to find out but couldn’t. He went to Duke so obviously he has a better understanding then Wyc. Maybe he is taking more of an active role. Epstein is a managing partner who developing the next Boston skyscraper and for Boston 32 floors is big I guess. Live in NYC thats kinda small but whatever.

UCN, being a Uconn fan I would think you would have a better judge of talent. The draft is deep. The drop off, yes does exist, but its not mind boggling. Durant I think is better then Oden but Brewer is going to be nasty and so isn’t Horford. I look at Noah as being a taller T. prince which isn’t half bad.

1. I believe that Pagliuca played freshman ball at Duke as a walk on.

2. Boston has elaborate zoning height restrictions depending on where a building is located. They probably couldn’t go higher than 32 stories.

“Think back to West’s playing style in college.”

Being a pretty big St. Joes fan, I saw every one of his games in his sophomore and junior seasons…and a handful of games in his freshman year as well. And from that, I can tell you that they are not similar overall players. They do have several similarities, which you correctly pointed out, but overall I think they are very different players.

richard, dont get me wrong, this is a terrific draft, but for what the Cs need, I dont think there is anyone outside of Oden, Durant, or Brewer that has what it takes to bring this team to the next level. I think Brewer will be a GREAT player (and maybe a triple double guy), and would be able to do all the little things that would allow Pierce to do what he does best. He would be a great fit for this team (reminds me of a bigger but less athletic Joe Johnson).

If the Celts dont have a chance at one of those 3, I think Danny should try and move the pick and som other players for a veteran All Star (O’Neal, Garnett, or the best of all Ray Allen ;) )

Brewer and Conely Jr are picks #3 and #4 in terms of potential, imo. I don’t know that I would give up Rondo for Conely at this point, although Conely looks far more polished than Rondo. Brewer would be awesome if we didn’t have Gerald already. I think Gerald is superior to Brewer as far as potential, Brewer just looks more ready to contribute. Brandon Wright looks interesting, but we have Big Al, and I’m a big believer in Ryan Gomes (although I expect he will a trade casualty in any deal made by the C’s), same with Horford. Noah I think will slide to 8 or 9.
A lot of talent in this draft, starting to look like the ’84 draft in some ways.

Oden seems to good to be true, and it would wild to see Rondo, Pierce, Durant, Jefferson, and Perkins as the starting 5.

Interesting times ahead, and even more interesting to see what FA or veteran help DA acquires with Gomes, West, Gerald, and Theo’s contract.

Potentially, Gerald is superior to Brewer. In fact, he is superior to most players in the league in regards to his POTENTIAL.

But as you also stated, Brewer is a more polished play, and more ready to contribute. He is one of those players that can literally do everything on a basketball court. My only concer is that he and Pierce have similar strengths and tendencies when it comes to scoring the basketball…but I still think Brewer would look terrific alongiside Paul.

Im a big Gerald fan, but his lack of bball IQ and his limited skills outside of scoring the basketball are enough to make me choose a guy like Brewer over him. He would be a valuable trade commodity if the Cs were able to land a guy like Brewer.

I think Gomes (and West) is a perfect guy to have coming in off the bench. He is a strong kid that can play either forward position, and he is fundamentally sound on both ends of court. He also has that nice foul line jumper to complement Al inside…and with his work ethic, I expect his ballhandling and 3 point shooting to improve over time. He is also unselfish, and one of those team guys who would be willing to do the little things to help this team win…regardless of how many points or minutes he gets. I wouldnt want to trade him because 1) I dont think he is the type of player who would bring back much in return due to limits on his upside, and 2) I think he could be a valuable player on a contending team..which will hopefully be the Celtics in the future.

Corey Brewer is a lock-down defender. That is not quite how I would describe Gerald Green.

I think Danny may still make the pick even at #3. I think he has a lot of patience and is willing to wait out the development even with Pierce on board. That said even though a big should be looked at the best prospects are wings (Brewer, Julian Wright) and points (Conley). I agree with John that defense needs to be addressed (either Brewer or Wright). I think Ainge will be willing to wait out Rondo’s development at the point (over taking a Conley at #3). Taking a wing would be taking the best prospect and protection if Tony doesn’t make it back. I could see some sorta funky lineup with Paul at the four and Gerald and Brewer or Wright at the wings. With Rondo out there as well that would be one hellavu speed lineup.

Brickowski -

Who do you think the Celtics should select at #3? At #4? (assuming they dont trade the pick)

In a contest at Baltimore on February 28, 1965, Thurmond set an NBA record that still stands decades later. He grabbed 18 rebounds in one quarter against the Bullets, breaking the previous record of 17 shared by Russell and Chamberlain. His season rebounding total of 1,395 placed him third in the league behind Russell and Chamberlain.

I would love to have Corey Brewer. The problem is that leaves us with Al and Perk as our only quality big men for years to come. If the C’s take the big step forward next year that many of us are (perhaps optimistically) expecting, they won’t have a high enough pick to draft a quality big man in the next several years, and, unless they’re willing to trade Jefferson — which I hope they aren’t — I don’t see how we can get a quality big man in a trade. You could make the case that we won’t get a shot at a guy like Brewer in the next several years either, but at least we have several wings — even if they all have holes in their games — and we could probably get a decent wing in the ‘08 draft if Gerald hasn’t developed by then. But for quality big men we’d have no one but Al and Perk — and even Perk is questionable due to his foot problems, foul trouble, and general lack of skills. And where would we be if Al ever went down again??

After #2, my draft list looks like this (in order):
Corey Brewer
Mike Conley, Jr.
Tiago Splitter
Spencer Hawes

I reserve the right to change my mind between now and June 28 in light of developments.

As soon as May 22 is over, I would be on the phone to Phoenix for three reasons
1. Permission to talk to Mike Iavaroni
2. A possible trade to acquire Marion or Diaw
3. Trading down by offering my pick for the three Phoenix picks (assuming I did not land one of the top 2 picks and that Phoenix doesn’t get lucky with the NY pick).

I would also be on the phone to Western conference teams to assess what I might be able to get for Pierce.