Is One Year Enough For Doc?

The only reason doc is in consideration for an extension is that Danny doesn’t want him spilling the beans over how explicit tanking instructions have been. Loyalty plus incompetent coaching equals one more year. Seems fair.

The first comment!!!! Almost as much cause for celebration as winning the lottery.

jerious speaks the truth. I bet Danny was secretly hopinh Doc wanted to spend more time with his family and would make the decision for him..

Jeff, maybe the key question for you has been how long of an extension, which concedes that he’s worthy of an extension, For me it’s “how can Doc ask for an extension without cracking up?”

Look what happened to the Knicks after Isaiah got his extension. Better to keep the pressure on, no extension, please. Results matter.

I’m the only Doc guy left…i think he can win big here…but IF…BIG IF,he’s pushing for 2 yrs ext then it sure seems like he’s angling to get fired…i hope he takes WHATEVER is on the table but the truth will be told soon enough…NO WAY he can expect more than one yr,totally 5,at this point…

It’s like the end of the movie the Bridge Over the River Kwai, where James Donald, who plays the prison camp Doctor, is looking over the ruins and mumbling “Insanity, insanity.”

This is exactly the article and comment that makes sense. No one believes out there, or you would hope, that Doc deserves a long extension. Realistically he doesn’t deserve one at all. It is however not a big deal if he gets a one year deal. Not so much for his own security, because as was pointed out his TV contract would take care of that, but because the owners and Danny want the team to think they believe in him and that he will be around for awhile. If not, he will lose control of this team and players will start playing for their own stats and not the team. For all of the ugly games we have seen over this past year, I can’t think of many occasions where a player was playing for stats. (Unless Pierce counts, but I think he was thinking he had to drop 40 to win, not that he needed to have those numbers) A one year extension is right on. If Doc won’t accept that, let the door hit him in the butt on the way out! He hasn’t earned more than that.

BTW, you have not offended me at all, mcpu40. If everyone agreed with me, I’d never have to defend my positions.

And you should know, mcpu40, that my wife agrees with you 100%, especially after I told her that if Rivers is coming back next year, (a) I won’t be attending further Celtics games, not even on her book club nights, and (b) that I would use the money that I would otherwise squander on my Celtics tickets package towards a little something for her at Quadrum in the Chestnut Hill Mall.

What has Doc Kevorkian done to earn an extension? Nothing that I can see.

Alright, there is the school of thought that the team is committed to him, will play hard for him and lame-duck status might jeopardize that.

I don’t buy it. But just in case it’s true, here’s the strategy.

Give Nurse his extension, with a conditional incentive.

If he makes the first round of the playoffs, guarantee him a year.

If he makes it to the second round, give him two years.

If the players are serious about him, they’ll play their hearts out for him.

If he earns an extension, more power to him. If he doesn’t earn it, he doesn’t deserve it, and he needs to go.

I prefer waiting to see where we draft before settling this with Doc.

Maybe the owners feel obligated to him for putting us next to last in the league. Lets be honest, without the shuffling of players in the 4th quarter, we would be in the 6 to 8th spot in this draft. Doc did what was asked of him, he lost games. It didn’t start out that way this year, but evolved to that. Without the excuses of to young, injuries,etc. we would probably be rid of him by now. If they want to show their gratitude, a one year extension will be offered. I hope he is ticked off, resigns and goes back to Orlando next year.

How about making Pierce the player-coach? Russell did it. Cowens did it. Then he could yell at himself for loafing on defense.

Can someone expain to me what difference it makes to wait until the lottery? Is the argument that it is more acceptable to offer Doc the year or more if we don’t win one of the top two picks? And this is because…he is useful in overseeing another season of seasoning for the youth? Surely if they win the lottery the incentive has to be to let Doc come back as a lame-duck or walk on his own…please dont tell me that adding Oden or Durant makes it more likely they will extend Doc….

danny’s head is on the line, no doubt. lots of decisions will be made- big ones. who to keep- who to get- some good old fashioned horse trading. the one thing i got here recently- dallas gets terry for antoine and what do we get twice? that’s not good for danny. i do like danny a whole lot better than doc.

I don’t agree with you Jeff that Ainge’s job should be at stake. For one, If the was no Oden or Durant the they would not have been tanking and probably would have been about the same as last season. Also, I’m not in the group (which I think includes everyone else) who believes it’s Oden or Durant or the teams screwed for the next 20 years. WHile I would obviously love one of the top two I think there are a lot of other players that can be added (via draft or trade) who can help this team. I’m also one of the few who think this team would have been much better without the injuries, but we seem to be a dying breed.

I been run down, I been lied to,
I donâ€â"¢t know why I let that mean woman make me a fool.
She took all my money, wrecked my new car.
Now sheâ€â"¢s with one of my goodtime buddies,
Theyâ€â"¢re drinkinâ€â"¢ in some crosstown bar.

Sometimes I feel, sometimes I feel,
Like I been tied to the whipping post,
Tied to the whipping post,
Tied to the whipping post,
Good lord, I feel like Iâ€â"¢m dyinâ€â"¢.

My friends tell me, that Iâ€â"¢ve been such a fool,
And I have to stand by and take it baby, all for lovinâ€â"¢ you.
Drown myself in sorrow, and I look at what youâ€â"¢ve done.
But nothinâ€â"¢ seems to change, the bad times stay the same,
And I canâ€â"¢t run.

Sometimes I feel, sometimes I feel,
Like I been tied to the whipping post
Tied to the whipping post,
Tied to the whipping post,
Good lord, I feel like Iâ€â"¢m dyinâ€â"¢.

Sometimes I feel, sometimes I feel,
Like I been tied to the whipping post
Tied to the whipping post,
Tied to the whipping post,
Good lord, I feel like Iâ€â"¢m dyinâ€â"¢.

I’m on the fence on Doc. I could live with a one year extension. I do think he has improved on some things, still anything more than a one year extension is insanity. The Celtics did lose eighteen games in a row when they definitely weren’t trying to lose. There may have been some extenuating circumstances, but that has seldom been done before.

Why do we believe that the team will bail on him if he only has one year left? There have been coaches before that have been closely scrutinized and not lost their team [Sam Mitchell is an excellent recent example]. In fact, if his players like playing for him they might see this as an excellent spur to play harder to save his job [this happened pretty much every year with the Detroit Lions coach in the early to mid 1990s, Wayne Fontes; the Lions would start slow, the coach would be under threat and then they’d finish strong because of a desire to save him, or at least that’s how the story has been told].

We also have the point, that Simmons said, that Pierce would likely not allow that to happen. [I was watching a piece on Toronto today that had Bosh playing a similar role of leader of his team by getting players to play harder and work harder; if Bosh can do that, why not Pierce?]

When Doc was fired from Orlando, I do believe there was some dissension from the clubhouse helping him out the door, but I don’t believe he was in his final year; his team just sucked and managment [and perhaps McGrady] wanted him gone.

The most an underperforming coach such as Doc deserves is his final year. Let him, you know, prove his worth. Giving him an extention, if only for a year, sends the message that losing just doesn’t matter; we like you, we trust you, and we’re behind you even if you lose. Where is the incentive? If you had a business and an employee who underperformed at increasingly bad levels for a few years, would you re-up his contract or give him one last change [or even just fire him]? You’d do the latter. It’s the better business strategy because it actually acts as an incentive to perform and not be placid and accept a bad performance.

Frankly, Danny and the owners should issue the same challenge that James Dolan did: Unless there is significant progress, you’re gone Doc.

A one-year extension would be a joke. Why even do it if it’s so transparent they are still keeping their options open? If they are trying to show the team Doc is going to be around, they have to make a true commitment, otherwise what good is it?

Wow! We have truely entered into Bizarro world again! What did they do to mcpu40? I haven’t seen a brainwashing like that since the Vietnam war! Man did they have you in a cage submerged in a river? During your suspension? Did you get the all bamboo out of your finger nails? Man I must say I laughed my a$$ off, on that first post… I know you got a little combative and maybe I missed something, if it got worse but I didn’t think you were that out of line. I know I mentioned once you both should agree to disagree, but wow, what a brainwash job. Did you have to promise you’ll agree to get back in?

In hope of not being totured or exciled I’d like to say, I’ll stand with Motown! If I go down that’s good company to go down with! Keep the Faith, Restore the Pride! And please everyone needs to lighten up a bit… :D

Remember, do not take life too seriously. As you’ll never get out of it alive.

The penalty for lifting a suspension on this blog is to write a 1000 word essay defending Doc’s substitution patterns, defensive philosophy, and set plays when the Celtics have the ball under ten seconds with the game on the line. It would break anybody, and should be banned by the Geneva Convention.

Do I think he should back? No.

As I stated three weeks ago, I believe there was a wink wink deal (1st or 2nd most ping pong balls). If Doc will accept a one year extension, he’ll be the coach in nov. Demanding anything more and the owners will have there opportunity to back out on there wink, wink deal.

Who will replace him? Who will have the final word on the next coach? Do we have any faith the selection will be any better? Will it be like Danny’s draft picks or Danny’s trades?

Maybe Danny has so much loyalty to Doc, he’ll resign.

 Jerry West is a free agent come June. Does that make anyone think outside the box.

Brick, I don’t know if you started this HATE attitude toward Doc, DannY, Wyc etc. but you sure have “duped” enough fans who follow in your footsteps!

Let’s recognize one sure fact. Danny has been like a son to ownership and has managed to save them a TON of money Start with 12 million for Raef’s exit, add Ratliff’s 11,666,000 salary beibg paid by INSURANE, add Vin Baker’s buyout…..and if you’re still not convinced, please note that attendance has not decreased and T.V. audience participation HAS INCREASED. What other losing team can boast such a win-win situation for ownership?

Still not convinced? What about TEAM ATTITUDE in such a dismal situation? Have the player’s REVOLTED? Do they SUPPORT their coach? Do they PLAY HARD for their coach? Compare this team’s attitude to that of the Knicks under legendary coach Brown (team quit despite much better talent, more veterans etc.).

The RAPPORT that a coach has with his players supplies an important ingredient for later success. The team’s attitude transfers it’s image onto it’s fan base and generates a degree of love and respect. That isn’t easily accoplished even with successful teams.

The BOTTOM LINE? Why should ownership complain if the fan base is actually EXPANDING, if attendance hasn’t DECLINED, if our roster is developing exciting talent with the prospects of a WINDFALL selection in the lottery? Still not convinced? What about Danny saving ownership over 30 million dollars with future prospects looking ever so bright? From a purely FINANCIAL viewpoint, haven’t Danny and Doc delivered EVERYTHING despite a horrendously tragic, injury-filled season?

FIRE Danny and DOC? What more could they have done to make the FUTURE look so bright while keeping $$$ in management’s pockets and the fan base EXPANDING?

Thank you Alaska……and btw Brick,is there anything about the Celtic franchise that does NOT disgust you as it stands today???

When talking about Red, Tommy Heinsohn often refers to Red’s skills as a “people manager” and that that was a big reason for Red’s success. Doc is a terrific “people manager”. Every player I’ve heard commenting on his (the player’s) chances of being traded say they don’t want to leave Boston. Al even said he’d chain himself to the team bus to keep from going to Philly (during the Iverson thingy). I think this says alot about Doc. As to Doc’s coaching: 1. He hasn’t had the chance to really coach. He’s served as a teacher and mentor to many young players who never really learned to play the game. He’s teaching remedial basketball to more players at one time than any other coach I can think of has had to do. Also, most of these young players have gotten better under Doc and know what they need to do to improve to the level they need to get at. They are also motivated to do that. As to coaching in general: Red Auerbach is acknowledged as one of the greatest coaches in the history of the game. He had 6 plays in his playbook. He succeeded because of his people skills and because he knew how to get great talent (obviously there were other reasons). He often said that basketball is a simple game, you put a round ball thru a hoop. He also often said that today’s coaches over complicate the game and “dumb down” the players. I think Doc is the type of coach that would like his players to play the game. Instead, because of his roster, he is giving individual instruction on the fly as the game is being played. Some complain that he doesn’t call a time out when another team makes a run. Doc, as long as the players are playing hard and not making mental mistakes, would rather the players work themselves out of the situation. Many coaches do that. Larry Bird did that with Indiana and there’s a great story about that in one of his books (with Jackie MacMullin). Doc is being judged unfairly because of the poor record. I’m for giving Doc a real extension. I think he’s the best coach for this team at this time.

I don’t see the Rivers glass as “half empty.” I see it as completely, utterly devoid of liquid and filled with Borax. It has been this way for two years.

Extension for Rivers? He should have been fired after the Indiana series. And then he should have been fired the day after that, and the day after that, and so on.

He can’t coach. He can’t win. He won’t win, mark my words, and by next December you’ll all be just as frustrated as you are now. (And so will Pierce, who will have steam coming out of the top of his head.) Rivers is not what this team needs to get out of the basement. (Actually its more like a mineshaft.)

This team needs a coach that the players and fans can respect, not one who the players like and who panders to the media.

The Celtics marketeers will sell you on hope. They draft some guy (whether its Oden, Durant or whomever) and tell you its all better now because a 19 year-old has been added to the roster. I’m not buying it.

I wish I could sound more positive because I really like the Celtics young players. They deserve better and so do we.

Brick, thou logic fails to mesh. When the players are 100% behind Doc’s extension, doesn’t that indicate RESPECT? Yet you call for a new coach, one that can gain the player’s respect? 1 1=?

Suddenly having a problem with typo corrections being maintained in the posted product. Also notice that postings are being made PRIOR to my signalling “Add Comment”. Security alert also came up?

Dito to Truegreen and Mosqq couldn’t agree more, and love to see some balance restored to the universe. Ying/Yang

Brick, name a coach who could have done better than Doc. Start at year 1. Or just name one that could have done better than Doc with this year’s situation. I really don’t know of one. I don’t think any coach could have done better with the roster we started with, all the changes that have been made, so many young, inexperienced players, and the devastating injuries this year. I think we now have a roster ready to win (go past first round of playoffs), probably not next year, but the year after for sure. And it’s Doc who has gotten us to this point. Doc has said that players will turn a coach off after awhile (as with Bill Fitch), but I don’t think that is about to happen. Again, I point to his people management skills. And I disagree with all who say that Doc is just good at PR. I think we are intimidated by an intelligent, articulate coach with a good sense of humor and who is willing to be candid. We seem to like the Belicheck type who don’t say anything or the Parcells type who have an adversarial relationship with the media.

True Green you said it all and it is the TRUTH of the matter whether anyone else wants to embrace it or not. Jeff put it on page #1 so that all may let it sink in. Maybe we all could celebrate: the victories are coming and most of our players are wonderful. Durrant could make a fine addition with our group.
  :-\

Brick’s just moody thats all. Doc not the greatest coach but he does have the players respect. If we get picks one, two or three then we shall see what others coaches come out looking for a job.

If the players are 100 percent behind an extention, then that pretty much torpedos the argument that they would quit on him if he didn’t have one. Again: it makes absolutely no sense to extend his contract whether it be one year or five.

From what I’ve read, one of the reasons Doc wants the extension is so he can move his family here. It makes no sense for him to do that if he doesn’t get the extension. I think this could also be the main reason he wants it. I think he’ll finish out next year without the extension because he really likes his players, but family matters might rule. I don’t think it’s about money and I don’t think it’s about the players turning him off. What we also should think of is several of our young players will be up for extensions or new contracts this summer and next. They may not want to stay here if Doc’s not here.

So, they’ll take less money to go elsewhere [since Boston can offer them the most, I believe] because they love Doc Rivers so much? Please. And, with the exception of Al Jefferson, those losses wouldn’t be catastrophic; the talent involved can be replaced with prudent management.

jarobiso—We haven’t had a point guard like Rondo in 20 years. Another TA wouldn’t be so easy to come up with (If he can get healthy), Al could decide to leave and we haven’t seen a low post player like him since Mchale. I don’t see replacing Al as an easy thing to do. And the Al/Perk combo plays opponents big men as well as any bigs in the league. I don’t see that as being easy to replace. Alot of players leave teams because they don’t like the coach, regardless of the money. When you’re making the kind of money they make, when you consider taxes, 2 or 3 million doesn’t make that much of a difference. Players who stay here only for the money are ones we probably don’t want. Many players turn down options or take less money to play for a team they want to play for.

True, some players do leave, but here’s the thing: we can’t plan our franchise around the whims of a coach who has continually produced an inferior product.

Giving Doc an extension does nothing but send a message that this ownership cares more about saving face and saving money than winning.

Does anybody doubt what Mark Cuban or Jerry Buss would be doing in this situation? Do you think they would be giving Doc an extension? Hell, James Dolan, not exactly the brightest bulb in the box, came out and said that Isiah’s continuing being a coach of his team was an improvement.

jarobiso, first of all I don’t agree that Doc has produced an inferior product. And yes the people you name at the end would probably have fired Doc a long time ago. Those three people are not basketball people. They are very rich people with egos bigger than the internet. Fortunately, we have Danny doing the evaluation and Danny IS a basketball guy. He understands the situation the coach is in and considers that when making a judgment. I also think the owners are solidly behind Danny in letting him make the decision as to whether Doc or any player stays of goes. I give the owners alot of credit for that.

1.) We can debate the fine points, but the increasing amounts of losses does point to an inferior product. You can argue that part of that is due to youth and injuries, but that ends up being an argument, at most, for keeping him one more year.

2.) The people I mention also have one more thing in common—they run successful basketball franchises. [Well, Dolan doesn’t, but that’s probably because he trusted too much in his past GMs who did a poor job]. Successful franchises, in many sports, generally have good management [or they get exceedingly lucky but that runs out]. That oftentimes begins from the top down—whether it is Bill Kraft, Jerry Buss, Mark Cuban, and so on. And part of their good management skills is putting good men who know the game in charge. Cuban did that with Nellie, for instance. The Celtics have not done that. Doc Rivers is not Nellie.

As I’ve said, I can see the argument for bringing Doc back next year. But giving him an extension at this point in time makes zero sense. About the only thing it does is give management/ownership a handy scapegoat to take pressure off their own failings.