Can Doc Be The Next Sam Mitchell?
by Jeff Clark on Apr 24, 2007 5:03 AM EDT
in Boston Celtics News & Links
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It appears that Sam Mitchell will win Coach of the Year. This is remarkable for anyone that remembers how bad his reputation was a year ago. Consider this quote from the National Post (hat tip TrueHoop):
It was a little more than a year ago that a Sports Illustrated poll of 248 NBA players named Toronto Raptors coach Sam Mitchell the worst coach in the league. But Tuesday, National Basketball Association sources have confirmed Mitchell will be named the NBA's coach of the year.
First of all, I'd like to see that poll done again this year. Considering Doc's reputation as a players coach, I doubt he'd rank high, but it would just be fun to see the names tossed under the bus again.
All of this begs the question, will Doc be the next rags to riches story? It sure seems like Wyc, Danny, and the rest of the Celtics think so. They don't even need more proof, they are willing to do what the Raptors were not willing to do last season, give the coach an extension on his expiring contract.
I know we've beat this topic to death, but it still hasn't been resolved and it is one of the main events of the summer, so we'll probably continue to talk about it. Nothing new here, but I did like the way Tim Weisberg summed up the situation with Doc.
It's no secret that the media loves Doc Rivers as a person. He's genial, honest and, quite frankly, a quote machine. But in terms of job assessment, he hasn't gotten it done. No coach should ever lose 18 games in a row, period. Questionable rotations, lack of defined roles and a penchant for yelling at his players from the sidelines are the common citations from Doc detractors.
However, the fact that this team continued to play hard every night despite their misfortune, and that no player said a single incendiary word about Rivers, is part of the reason why the Celtics will give him at least a one-year extension on his contract. Doc worked hard to get the C's where they are, and he deserves to be at the helm next season. But beyond that? Let's see what he can do when there are no excuses left.
We'll see what Wyc wants to do with Doc. He is going to get some kind of extension, so he won't coach as a lame duck like Mitchell did (not that it hurt him at all). If he gives him a one year extension, you know the leash will be short if things don't go right. If he gets multiple years, that still doesn't insure Doc's job, it just makes it harder to cut ties. Coaching salaries don't go against the cap, just the bottom line. So if Wyc wants to give him a 20 year extension and cut him after 1 or 2 years, its his money (yes, I know it will be paid for by raising hot dog prices, but it isn't like they won't raise the price anyway). On the other hand, they might not be too eager to pay dead money to a fired coach if the replacement isn't an absolute slam-dunk upgrade.
Regardless, Doc will be back next year and we'll see what he can do. Since his fate is tied to the Celtics, I'm going to be rooting for him to find lightning in a bottle like Mitchell did and turn things around for this team. Mitchell was able to enjoy a major roster makeover that simiply has more talent and the ability to make any coach look good. But he gets credit for steering the ship properly and getting the star player to buy in. In a similar way, Doc could benefit from a much improved and much healthier roster next year (especially with a top pick and/or a big trade). He is already on the player's good side, in particular Pierce, so if the team improves a lot, he'll get a lot of credit. Doc has won Coach of the Year once already, maybe he can do it again! Stranger things have happened.
Like I said, it will be interesting to see how this all plays out.
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Rags to riches??..Lightning in a bottle?..you guys created this fantasy that Doc sucks and now you really believe it…as with Mitchell,Doc is a good coach that will seemingly get better as his roster improves…now can he takes us from 50 wins to a title ,ala Carlisle,Adeleman etc etc and guys that could not???? ..that is the question but Danny’s gotta get him a roster first
The irony is that Sam Mitchell may be the first coach of the year who isn’t rehired.
Sam Mitchell is not a great coach. In fact, he was outcoached by the much-maligned Lawrence Frank in game one of the playoffs a few days ago.
Mitchell has benefitted from Brian Colangelo’s excellent personnel decisions, including the acquisitions of TJ Ford and Anthony Parker, among others.
I will give Mitchell credit for benching Morris Peterson, but that’s about it.
You mention we should see what Doc can do with an improved roster from a lotto pick or a big trade. Why does it have to be one or the other? Why can’t we draft Durant and still end upp with Gasol. I would assume Theo, Minni’s pick, Green and West would be a starting point. Even Doc could coach a line up of Rondo, Pierce, Durant, Jefferson and Gasol……right?
by Stuck in Philly on Apr 24, 2007 6:42 AM EDT reply actions
i was watching one of the playoff games and listening to the telestrator,mike fratello, surely doc’s first and maybe his main mentor. he had all the arrows and all the offensive players doing multiple picks and i’m thinking, this is where doc got it from. the young celts were doing all these tecnical plays when they didn’t have their fundamentals down. where was the auerbach 6 play handbook and run, run, run. doc is too busy showing to everybody what a technical genius he is to be aware of what the kids really needed. at the end of the season, they seemed to go to basic fundamental drills, something that should have been stressed from the beginning, instead of all the fiddling with the lineups.
Coach of the Year, like all subjective awards, is meaningless with the exception of ego-pumping and resume-building. It’s difficult when you don’t watch teams play more than a handful of times each year to determine the ability of a coach.
Rick Adelman has been seen as a very good coach, but he had a veteran roster to work with. It doesn’t appear he’s ready to jump back into the grind until the right team comes calling, meaning one that isn’t going to take years to be competitive.
Everyone around here sang the praises of Rick Carlisle when he clearly out-coached Doc two years ago in the first round. Now he’s apparently too rigid for the Pacers’ taste.
The fact of the matter is you might as well stay with the guy you’ve got unless there’s a revolt brewing among the players or he starts picking up DUI’s.
by lemonadesky on Apr 24, 2007 7:04 AM EDT reply actions
The article had to much hope from too much kool-aid drinking.
Its nice to think that doc can get the job done like the beginning of last year when most thought we were going to win 40 games.
i dont want to go through that again , we need a new coach by the time we draft or at least by the beginning of camp. we can position ourselves to be a legit contender after getting playoff exp. next yr. doc is just mucking up our speed of being a contender.
According to the article, “Doc worked hard to get the C’s where they are…”. 24-58, second worst record in the league. I’m not sure I would have phrased Doc’s efforts quite that way.
by halfman/halfoyster on Apr 24, 2007 7:27 AM EDT reply actions
Rivers is an amiable loser. If you put two or three more good players on the Celtics roster would he win more? Sure. But that doesn’t make him a good coach any more than it makes Sam Mitchell a good coach. Mitchell isn’t, and that’s why someone else will be coaching the Raptors next year. You don’t hear Colangelo prattling on about a new contract for Mitchell, because he’s not going to get one.
The Catholic church just did away with limbo. I wish the Celtics would do the same by canning Rivers.
If “Lame Duck” produces “Coach of the Year,” what the h*ll is the problem? Doc signed for 4 years, not 3 and an option year (Coaches choice?)…
If it’s bad “luck” that’s produced the precipitous drop-off in wins over his first 3 years, then fire him for God’s sake before the drawing on the 22nd…Unlucky people, (see also Telfair) shouldn’t be associated with the Shamrock…Period.
by BoundingRounder on Apr 24, 2007 7:47 AM EDT reply actions
So who selects the coach of the year? Journalists? Players? Other coaches? No one asked for my vote, and if they did, I would select Jeff Van Gundy hands down. He lost Yao and McGrady for significant periods, yet still won 50 games with the likes of Rafer Alston, Shane Battier, Bonzi Wells, Juwan Howard and Chuck Hayes.
Doc will be allowed to stay because he did what the Celts’ management wanted this year, and that is tank games in an almost blatant fashion. It is difficult for any coach to be willing to tank because it is such a black mark on their record, which is why O’Brien left.
Look at it from Doc’s perspective: At some point early this season, management comes and says, “Doc, we’re going to keep Pierce out indefinitely. We need you to lose big why he is gone, and also continue to lose when he eventually comes back.” Why would Doc agree to this? If he quits, he loses this and next year’s salary. If he defies them, he will be fired and get his money, but he won’t have a job. Seeing as his record here was far from distinguished, it might be difficult for Rivers to come away with another head coaching gig in the future. After all, there are only 30 spots and you get only so many chances.
So Rivers agreed to the tank job instead of being replaced with an interim stooge like Tony Barone in Memphis. It only makes sense that he be rewarded with an extension, even if it is a modest one.
by obnoxiousmime on Apr 24, 2007 8:08 AM EDT reply actions
Here’s the thing I don’t really understand: Giving Doc credit for keeping everyone playing hard during the 18 game losing streak. Well doesn’t an 18 game losing streak indicate that the team wasn’t playing that hard? Don’t we kind of want our team to be passionate enough that they want a complete upheaval when they lose so much?
I guess that’s just the kind of year it was, it was ok for us to lose, and it was ok for our coach to keep everyone happy while we lost our way to the top of the lottery.
What a crappy year.
by Robb @ CelticsBlog on Apr 24, 2007 8:39 AM EDT reply actions
The difference between the Mitchell of this year and past years is simply talent. Toronto had enough of it this year — not in years past. You can’t accurately judge Doc till he has it. Do most of this think he’s not the answer — yes — but he needs to be given a chance to manage a decent squad. And unless Danny swings a couple of decent trades, no matter who they draft, they’re going to struggle because this team still can’t defend anyone. Danny needs to address that or we’re going to suck again next year — top pick or no top pick.
Well Robb has put his finger on it. Doc doesn’t teach defense and doesn’t value defense. If you think this team plays hard on the defensive end you’re crazy. A few guys play hard (e.g. West), but not very many. And their defensive schemes simply don’t work. I don’t know if they are too complicated or what.
When you put bad defense together with the almost complete lack of an up tempo offensive game (hence very few easy baskets), wacky rotations and the inability to close out a game, Presto! You have the perfect recipe for a 24-win team.
Frank, I also think that the lack of defense stems from Ainge too. He shouldn’t escape scot free. He always has valued more up tempo type teams. I’ve heard him in the past wish the C’s could be like the old Sacremento teams. I don’t think he values defense despite whatever comments he makes now. Doc is not a good x and o’s coach but Ainge cannot escape blame here either. I wish we would start putting a premium on D!!
Let me add the following: Grousbeck and Ainge can give 1,000 interviews and go on and on about what a good job Rivers has done, but we know better. And when the chronic losing starts all over again next year— well, you heard it here first.
As Bill Simmons pointed out in his recent diatribe on Rivers, you can only bottom out on your fanbase once. It looks to me as though the Celtics are trying to debunk that theory. Their view seems to be, you can screw your fanbase as much as you want so long as your marketing is good. You really can fool all of the people all of the time if you keep repeating the same lie. Unfortunately for them, won-lost records don’t lie.
Nazzbo – I’m still waiting on those names of the veterans who were just waiting there to be plucked by us? Remember the ones who were healthy, smart and physical? You said there were many of them out there and our team definitely needs a couple of them. Which ones are available and easy for Danny to go out and get?!
Funny how easy it is to throw out a blanket comment like that and when examples are asked for… Off to another post so they don’t have to answer the question. Kind of like the thousands of better coaches out there than Doc…
Sam Mitchell is not as good of a coach as Doc is. I’m not saying Doc is a great coach by any stretch, but I’ll keep him over Sam. The players have the biggest affect on an average coach. Just like we have seen the last few years. Better players = Better coach. Period.
Brickowski I’m with you on your comments about Ainge & Wyc. They are doing a great job marketing the C’s like a minor league baseball team but the telling figures are the lowest season ticket base in the NBA and the fact that no one watches the games on TV.
You can only disguise crap for so long before your fan base gives up and stops caring. It’s also unfortunate that the strongest ‘calling it like it is’ comments have to come from Simmons 3000 miles away and not from any media people in this town.
Maybe it is just really hard to coach in the NBA. Perhaps the difference between being COY and a bum is a lot smaller than people think. Maybe it just might be harder to coach in the NBA than post on the internet or be a drunken aging frat boy writing for ESPN.COM calling out everyone who disagrees with you’s integrity. I sincerly hope that Doc is the next Sam Mitchell just so some of his no knothing critics have to eat crow.
by JohnCK on Apr 24, 2007 10:21 AM EDT reply actions
I think the Coach of the Year award has very little to do with coaching talent. This is a league the over-values superstars and under-values roleplayers, so the coach who wins is typically one who has solid roleplayers who help a team perform “better than expected” — the Anthony Parkers, Josh Howards, Bruce Bowens, Aaron McKies, etc. Orlando was a fairly veteran team when Doc took it over — remember, he won Coach of the Year not that long ago — with roles already defined. What he’s really struggled with, with the Celtics, is figuring out roles and systems with younger players that will both help them develop and help the team succeed at the same time.
you guys forget how profoundly bad a coach doc is. would doc win 47 wins with these raptors? it seems more appropriate to ask if he would have won 27 games. don’t forget – bosch was hurt some of the year and missed considerable time – i can alreday hear the excuses -“but then chris went down…” blah blah blah. doc’s the worst, period.
by mroden on Apr 24, 2007 11:13 AM EDT reply actions
This is embarrassing to read. The league’s worst coach is getting a pass, how nice.
Hey, let’s start with “no player said a single incendiary word”. This is what’s known as shading the truth. Many players have said incendiary words about Rivers. The thing is, they were in Orlando, and the ones from Boston were traded away. Why was that not in the article?
Let’s take a journey now to the comments:
“you guys created this fantasy that Doc sucks and now you really believe it”
Fantasy? The GM who canned him in Orlando didn’t think it was a fantasy. His GM in Boston has noted, in each of the last two years now, that Rivers needs to do a better job. So, let’s see….. former GM and current GM = “you guys”. Interesting math.
" exactly correct…niether Doc or Mitchell is a great coach…maybe not even above average…maybe not good enough for adjustments in a short series but until we get there we should worry if Danny can get it done,Doc is fine for now"
Fewer wins in 2 seasons than some teams have gotten in 1 is suddenly “fine for now”. 18 straight losses is “fine for now”. a sub .500 record over the course of his tenure without Walker is “fine for now”. Wow, that Celtics legend just keeps growing stronger.
It’s embarrassing to watch fans of the Boston Celtics accept such incompetence. It’s even more embarrassing to watch fans defend it.
Master Po said:
“I am not so sure if Sam Mitchell can be the next Sam Mitchell”
Best comment of the week.
It’s now official: Mitchell is the COY. According to the article I saw it’s NBA journalists and broadcasters who vote on this. Given the nature of the electorate, I’m a little surprised that Rivers wasn’t in contention for COY again this year.
Bosh missed half the amount of games that Pierce missed. Toronto also did not lose 6 guys for big amounts of time. (Pierce, TA, Wally being the biggest and longest hits) Bad comparison. Compare it to David Robinson going down for most of the year and them going from a contender to a lottery team… Was that the coaches fault?!
Doc does just about nothing good as a coach. I dont care what “next” he could be, he has no business being on the NBA sidelines without a towel or waterbottle in his hands.
by ucn33 on Apr 24, 2007 2:08 PM EDT reply actions
Doc is overly criticized on this board and others…he’s not great with his sub patterns, but he’s also been asked to MAKE more subs than any other coach should have to do…a stable 8-9 man rotation without a 15 man roster full of young, inconsistent players wanting/needing PT should go a long way toward stabalizing his weakest element as a coach…
The team will most likely give him a 1 year extension with a club option for 2 more, thus satisfying his desire for a multi-year deal while protecting the club from over-commitment if they don’t like how things transpire…frankly, Doc deserves a true quality lineup to show his stuff, something he’s never had in Orlando or Boston…
Brickowski said:
Well Robb has put his finger on it. Doc doesn’t teach defense and doesn’t value defense. If you think this team plays hard on the defensive end you’re crazy. A few guys play hard (e.g. West), but not very many. And their defensive schemes simply don’t work. I don’t know if they are too complicated or what.
When you put bad defense together with the almost complete lack of an up tempo offensive game (hence very few easy baskets), wacky rotations and the inability to close out a game, Presto! You have the perfect recipe for a 24-win team.
——————————————————————————————————
Brick, i’m not pretending that Doc is the best, but your seriously misjudging where the culpability lies when it comes to defense…the team has been wildly inconsistent defensively, but they’ve certainly had their moments-especially to close out the year when the rotation was more consistent…considering how inexperienced the season-closing rotation was, I thought the Celtics really played some of their best defense of the year…
Much of the team’s poor defensive statistics are a byproduct of excessive turnovers, which inflate FG% and total points…but the team had many solid defensive showings, roughly 30 games or so of quality D-especially when Perk and Rondo were getting bulk minutes…add TAllen back into that mix and you’ve got at least a middle of the pack defensive team to start next season…
Doc DOES emphasize defense FYI…that’s why Ainge,Wyc and company are willing to discuss an extension despite the hefty price tag Doc brings…
you may not agree,but at least give the man a season of stability and legit rotation to prove you wrong…he won’t be here much longer if he can’t,so what do you have to lose by being a bit open-minded…
way too much credit is going to Mitchell when most of it should go to Colangelo. By all accounts Bosh has always been a team-first guy. This is all about roster turnover. Check out how long it took this season for the coach to reduce Mo Pete’s minutes in favor of Anthony Parker and Calderon.
We know that the current ownership will not fire Doc if he’s owed a significant amount of money, they’ve already proven themselves to be frugal that way. There’s no need to hem and haw about it.
by Don Babbitt on Apr 24, 2007 3:37 PM EDT reply actions
I didnt realise this award had been changed to MICOY..
There was 11 teams with equal or better road records than toronto and at least half the league allowed less points than they did.
What the hell are they rewarding him for? they should give his award to Colangelo if anything.
argh the NBA aint what is used to be.. this is a joke. No credibility whatsoever.
by havlicekstoletheball on Apr 24, 2007 5:46 PM EDT reply actions
Things just keep getting worse for the Celtics. How do you lose 18 in a row and get an extension. On any other team he would have been fired. Even mediocre coaches would have found a way to win 1. Excuse excuses are all I hear. Yeah Doc was COY with a 41-41 record. Has he ever woon a playoff series? No!! Just what we need make the playoffs and exit early.
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