No Translators Necessary

The first wave of foreign players were guys who played college ball in the U.S.(Detlef Schrempf, Olajuwon, Rik Smits, Najera, Nash, Ewing, Moiso, Foyle etc.

Then, as you mention Jeff, there is a the second class of foreign players who came up through the Euroleague system and never played U.S. college ball. Drazen Petrovic was the first. After the NBA and FIBA reached their “gentlemens agreement” concerning the validity of contracts, buyout amounts, etc., the floodgates opened. Kukoc came over in 1993, Radja in 1995, Sabonis in 1996 and so on.

I think the Celtics lost interest in the International market after the Mavs outmaneuvered them for Nowitzki in 1999. I don’t think it was Radja.

Teams like the Mavs, Spurs and Raptors have close ties with European national teams. Don Nelson coached the Lithuanian national team, Del Harris was a coach with the Chinese national team and so on. It takes years to build those relationships, plus the patience to invest draft choices in players who may not come over right away. The Celtics have simply not invested the resources in these areas. They took a flyer on Welsch (who might have been more successful under different coaches) and dabbled with a few fringe players like Reuben Wolkowyski, (who was doomed in O’Brien’s system because he couldn’t shoot the three). But as far as I can see, the Celtics don’t even attend the Addidas camp in Treviso any more.

I wouldn’t lump Ewing in the group with all those international players…he was born in Jamaica but came over much younger than everyone else there and has lived in Cambridge since he was 13

The international game has changed. No longer can you have the dream team coasting to 30 point victories. The foreign game has improved immensily and there are quality players that will continue to make international scouting imperative. Those that snooze, lose.

Brick…The wealth of information that you routinely provide, as illustrated by your capsulization of the Celtic’s foreign interests, suggests that you are more than you represent yourself to be. Have you been a sports writer in the past? How is it that you have so much information so readily at hand? I’m impressed!

While I don’t always agree with you I do respect your input. About the only thing that I strongly disagree with is the fathomless NEGATIVITY that you are prone to indulge in.

What additionally leads me to believe that you have a writer’s background is the fact that you write so well. Who are you?

Sorry, Celticsbandwagon, for thinking you were Jeff. Good article, BTW

No. I never was a sportswriter. I am a lawyer.

An article on a topic that I’ve thought has not been mentioned much in Celtic Nation. That alone is hard to do. Kudos on a thoughtful piece.

I’ve thought about the topic myself. You’ve pointed out how far down the line in the NBA we are in foreign representation. I would say that it’s intentional on the Cs part, though I couldn’t say why – other than our lack of success in bringing those players into the fold.

Someone mentioned Jiri Welsh, who you omitted, intentionally or not. While I never saw what some saw in his potential, I thought his career got crushed here. He came in as one ball player and left as a shell of that player.

Dirk Nowitzki notwithstanding, one day one will lead his team to an NBA title. And more the better for the sport.

Basketball will take over as the world’s sport one day. There is no doubt in my mind.

regards,
T

At this point I don`t think drafting international players is the problem for the celtics. There are no Ginobili`s at the end of the second round anymore. All these players are heavily scouted and all teams know the prospects well…

Where I feel this franchize has fallen behind is with signing european free agents. Nocioni, Calderon, Garbajosa and so on. There are many players in Europe who have been playing at the top level for years, have won titels on club and international level and are formed, experienced players…

Papaloukas, Diamantidis, Vujcic, Scola, Navarro and the list goes on and on…

We have guys like Ray, Powe on our roster…second rounders who need a few years of development, guys who never played on professional level, who have not won anything…

Wouldn`t it be better to sign a free agent who has won titles in european competition, has unbelievable experience and is one of the best players in Europe?

IMO, experience these players bring, along with quality, high BBIQ, professionalism would definitely help this team win games. We have stars like Pierce, Big Al, we need great role player. We already have a few but adding some international players would certainly help this franchize on its path to contention…

Can`t wait to see Scola and Navarro in the NBA in the near future…

Success breeds success. Free agents, American or foreign, dream of playing for champions. Celtics have been nothing in the recent history of todays players. And Boston is not the attraction of Miami, LA, Phoenix, et al. Even as a fan, I’ve been one so long, I can’t help myself. If we don’t get some relief soon, I’ll be seeking a 12 step program to rid me of the Celtic obsession.

One other thing. The first player IMO from Europe that really left an impact in this league was Sarunas Marciulionis. Petrovic came into the NBA in 1989/90 and practicaly din`t play in POR for a season and a half.

Marciulionis came into the league the same year but had a quicker impact. He is someone we don`t hear much about but he put up some nice numbers for that Golden state team…

Brickowski: Which character on Boston Legal are you most like?

I’ve never watched Boston Legal.

Brickowski said…“plus the patience to invest draft choices in players who may not come over right away”… That phrase brought to mind Red’s patience when he drafted one Larry Bird and had to wait a year before Larry joined the team….and even then there was a serious risk that Larry would decide not to join the Celtics but to reenter the draft the following year. That patience should have set a precedent, especially since the Celtic’s invested the 6th selection in the first round, a high selection sacrifice and not the second round investments that some teams use for that purpose.

What makes Red’s investment so unusual was that even when making the future pick Red had no idea that he was drafting a “franchise” player….and yet as the article and bloggers have commented, we seem to have abandoned an important avenue on the road to success.

As for passing on Tony Parker, the mistake was Red’s when he insisted that the Celtic’s draft Forte when others in the organization pined for Parker. Win some, lose some…but STAY the course!

I think Danny and Chris Wallace have been scouting international players quite a bit. They seem to be excellent in the fundamentals, but not as tough as NBA players (in general). I think the South American players are quite tough and I don’t know how much we scout those players. Another obstacle is getting them here. Contract problems are one thing. I don’t know, but I don’t think they like to come to Boston.

I disagree about international players not wanting to come to Boston. IMO, celtics are still highly regarded in “international eyes” in contrast to american. I have no doubt that we could bring some of the best players to boston if we had interest in them.

And I also don`t see a problem with south american scouting. Most of these players come to NBA via Europe…

Well, the good international players are interested in teams where they have contacts, where someone knows someone. When Donny Nelson takes the time to coach the Lithuanian national team, it sends a message. When the Raptors hire Maurizio Gherardini, it sends a message.

It appears that Chris Wallace has worked to develop contacts, most recently in Africa via basketball without borders. But if the Celtics have any presence in Europe, I don’t know what it is.

The importance of foreign players has only really exploded in the last few years, as they have seen their own countrymen in the NBA, and the elite athletes have started playing basketball vs soccer. Celtics management has been behind everyone for 20 years. Wow! Where does the time go.

You have to wonder whether or not Ainge has a bias against foreign players, or if Wyc & Co. are too cheap to put the money into international scouting. Either way, it is a significant problem for this franchise, especially when you look at all the contributions from foreign players to all of the teams still playing basketball!

Remember. He’s not your Vidas. He’s not my Vidas. He’s Arvidas.

IMH0 Arvidas Sabonis was the 4th best center ever to play the game after Russell, Chamberlain and Jabbar. He was the best passing center I’ve ever seen, better than Divac, Walton or anyone.

This article will seem kind of ironic if we draft Yi Jianlian…

I think birdman raises a potentially good idea – signing a wily Euro vet or 2 for the 14th/15th spots on the roster. True (Euro) pro experience vs Allan Ray and Olowakandi? I’d take the proven Euro player based on recent developments (Nocioni, Garbo particularly). Toronto certainly developed quicker as a team than I thought they would. If there’s one thing I’ve learned the past few years – it is how important experience really is.

Danny had been rumored to offer Roni Ukic a contract a few years ago. His name is popping up now again with other teams. He is supposed to be a solid PG. Wouldn’t that be a better option than trying to teach Allen Ray to play PG?

What the birdman said. I’m always amazed at how people sleep on Ã…Â arÃ…Â"nas MarÃ"iulionis. Dude used to wreck shop in Golden State with Chris Mullin. He was the first guy that convinced me foreigners could play in the L.

I loved Sabonis and his Blazers…but the forth best center ever. I am not a stat guy, but to suggest that a Sabonis in his prime was better than Shaq (and I hate Shaq)or Duncan is alittle silly. I loved Sabonis for his game (Birdilike ability to pass makes any Celtic fan swoon), but he was surrounded by more overall talent (arguable yes) talent than the two gents I mentioned above with no title.

PS do we still have the rights to some kid in Spain?

Sabonis was 32 years old with no knees left when he arrived in Portland. And he was still a dominant player.

Had a healthy Sabonis entered the NBA at age 21 or 22 he would be a first ballot hall of famer. Shaq has nothing even vaguely approaching Sabonis’ basketball skills.

If I could write it over again I would mention Sarunas Marciulionis. I guess I got caught up in the Croatians. Although his first year in the league was the same as Petrovic’s so I don’t feel too bad. However, in focusing on the draft I ignored Jiri Welsch. I regret that. The bigger issue is that over the last 20 years the biggest changes in the draft have been high school prospects and international players that did not go to college in the US. Danny Ainge and by extension the Celtics have put some stock in the high school guys – Gerald Green and Al Jefferson – but for the most part ignored the international crowd. This is something to consider as a team, albeit an injury plagued one, goes 24-58. Thanks for all the comments. I definitely picked up a few things.

Danny had been rumored to offer Roko Ukic a contract a few years ago. His name is popping up now again with other teams. He is supposed to be a solid PG. Wouldn’t that be a better option than trying to teach Allen Ray to play PG?

Ukic was drafted by toronto in 2005 draft, so they own his rights. It is also rumoured that Colangelo wants him in toronto next season…I like Roko I think he will be a good PG in this league…

Hi from Spain!

I think there are some europeans players who can contribute immediately with the C’s.
A veteran PG should be a perfect fit for that team and I have 3 names in my mind: Theodoros Papaloukas, Dimitris Diamantidis & Sarunas Jasikevicius.
This 3 guys give you experience, very very high basketball IQ and are big competitors. My favourite one is Papaloukas, one of the smartest players i’ve ever seen.

And for Sabonis i have no doubt if he didn’t hav all those injuries he turned into the best center in basketball history. I’ve seen matches before the injuries, and he was unbeliaveble. 7’4" shooting threes, hook shot, post game, running the court and dunking like Shaq. And of course one of the best passing players ever

I started a thread about international free agents who could help the Celtics about a month ago.

http://www.celticsblog.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=64&topic=3931.0

I think there are some europeans players who can contribute immediately with the C’s.
A veteran PG should be a perfect fit for that team and I have 3 names in my mind: Theodoros Papaloukas, Dimitris Diamantidis & Sarunas Jasikevicius.

Saras (Sarunas Jasikevicius) is already in the NBA. We made a bid at him, he ended up with the Pacers, did next to nothing, and ended up in Golden State this year in the trade that brought the Warriors Stephen Jackson and Al Harrington. He plays garbage minutes. This just goes to show taht even the most highly scouted and highly touted Euro guys can stink in the NBA. I was guilty of salivating over this kid’s apparent court vision and passing skills before his arrival in the NBA. I definitely wasn’t alone. JEFF, I believe you were right there hyping our boy Sarunas, yes?

Meant to quote taht 1sy paragraph above. Guess I don’t know how on this new system.

Hi!, Heavy Times…casual wait or is it weight?…Everyone’s saying what is proper… everyone’s tense and kinda hoping that words of trades or blow Doc outta the water will cover the inestimable depth of Tuesday Evening…Hah!…We’re easy winners, don’t ya know…It’s ten years and that trash in Sporting news…It’s karma…and I’ll bet we win, no matter what…Covered till Tuesday Midnight!…I don’t know about sending Tommy, but Tommmy’s a winner…It’s a simple task!….let the good times roll!!!…