Like a bad penny, he just won’t go away. Some pundits rate him the most athletic big man in the draft. Huh? I thought that honor went to Oden? By big, we mean 7’ and above.

A project to be sure but who isn’t these days. We’re now beginning to understand why Danny made three trips to China (about 22 hours each way). My longest flight to date has been 12 hours and I made that trip twice and am glad that I don’t have to do it again.

You can’t teach SIZE and it’s not so easy to find size with great athleticism either. When you have that combination plus a nice stroke and good handles to boot, what’s not to like?

As always there’s a fly in the ointment and that fly revolves around his “intangibles”. As to his determination, one clue could be his willingness to play over here knowing the cultural clash and foreign language challenges he’ll be facing. He’s not afraid of the unknow.

Which brings us to the question, why worry? We’re going to get either picks 1 or 2, aren’t we????

One word – Lampe. The last “big” that Chad Ford hyped up. >:(

I’m looking forward to the many ways that Brikowski can destroy yet another draft prospect. He has his favorites and perhaps he’s got a better feel for the talent in this draft than most of us do. What scares me is that someone so persuasive (an excellent lawyer, I’m convinced) that he’s acquired an army of chameleons and I’m wondering if Yi does fall to us, will that potentially negative influence place a cloud over Yi’s chances here? Of course, I’m being a bit disingenuous since Brick doesn’t echo many of Chad Ford’s rants, and we’ve little to fear from his Toronto perch anyways. Or will Brick continue to oversee this blog to insure that the zealots, ala Chad Ford, don’t get carried away?

 Not a personal attack, Brick, just a reminder that your attachment here is much stronger than you realize, even if you WON’T pay money to see Doc get “coach of the year”. Ha! And now that we have yet another “savior” at #3, things are looking up for #4…….and we will see another can’t miss candidate at #4 too, since Chad Ford has stirred the pot!

B Wright…now Yi..Brewer moving up ..etc…the 3rd pick is huge compared to 4 & 5…at 3 we get 5 weeks to field offers,work out our guys and make sure they want to come here…it’s like getting the #1 as far as preperation…

Lampe was big, but athletic? Didn’t know that he had great handles and a quick first step either of that he had great accuracy from the foul line AND three point range. I guess I slept through his Bio…..

A word of caution….the word “hype” has different levels of interpretation. That Lampe received hype as a top “10” candidate in a weak draft does not equate with the hype of a top “3” candidate in a very STRONG draft. Chad Ford is definite “out on a limb” with this call and for once he could be right. It’s the law of averages and he’s OVERDUE!

As many fans have speculated, the 15th pick in this draft could be better than the 3rd-14th pick etc. It’s a wonderful draft opportunity for those in the lottery to find a missing piece.

we haven’t seen yi so we don’t know. danny has and it is clear he has done his homework and we have to trust him. china has spent $$$$$ developing its athletes for their hosted olympics and he’s had some coaching. the big questions are- how much of a project is he? and can he play d ?

I would love to add someone who can contribute right away. With Doc this is tough. We need help at the point and in the post. If Yi can do that (post help) great…I trust Danny in the draft..as much as anyone who trades for Telfair can be trusted. After watching Ty Thomas in the playoffs, I think a skinny kid with hops can get in done in the paint, so my previous feelings of Yi being to frail are softening a bit. He is just such an unknown to so many of us that the facade of control, ie I have seen this guy play a bunch (Horford, Noah, Conley, ect.) is almost non-existant. So we really have no idea what we are getting and as New Englanders and Celtics fans we go to the worst case scenario (Lampe).

We must remember that Ford was right about Ainges lust for Rondo.

Banks yes, less certain about Perkins since Danny had just come on board and their chief of scouting had heavily scouted Perkins so the corporate influence may have been strong. In any event, to get a productive though faulted big at 27 was a good stroke.

As for the misfire on Banks, that happens quite often when you project a player for a diffent position than he’s played in the past. Banks never could convince himself that an assist was as valuable as him scoring. He lacked court vision as well as well as coachability (as confirmed by his failure at three pro teams).

We’ve cooked his goose enough in the past so I won’t dwell on his multitude of sins here.

The concern with Yi could be a throw-back on Bank’s failure. We still don’t know what position he’ll play at the NBA level. We lack a prototype PF and Yi has the size and offensive ability but not the body, defensive prowess, nor the rebounding for the job. The big question will be whether he, unlike Banks, can acquire these abilities. He has a high basketball IQ and the athleticism which convinces pundits that Yi can make that adjustment.

Yi may be initially projected at SF but even here he lacks a quick release on his shot and may not be able to stay with ultra quick or physical SFs. His quick first step can be an advantage against slower PFs but is less likely to be an advantage against quicker Sfs.

dwade in this draft… hmm possibly acie law or mike conley

moskqq said:

“I’m looking forward to the many ways that Brikowski can destroy yet another draft prospect.”

Excuse me? I think I’ve made my position on Yi Jianlian quite clear: I have no position. I’ve never seen him play (or if I did, I don’t remember). For all I know he’s the next Nowitzki, the next Bruno Sundov, or something in between. And nothing that Chad Ford says is particularly helpful in determining where Yi falls on that continuum.

Having said that: (1) I think the odds of Mike Conley,Jr. becoming the next Chris Paul are much higher than the the odds of Yi turning out to be the next Nowitzki,(2) I do not think Rajon Rondo is the answer as the Celtics starting point guard (although he would be great as an energy player coming off the bench), and (3) I’m not sure that this team really needs another 7 footer who roams around the perimeter and shoots 3’s, even if he is a very good player.

Assuming that the Celtics don’t get #1 or #2, my draft day strategy would be simple: draft Conley (who actually reminds me more of a young Isiah Thomas than Chris Paul),and trade Ratliff’s expiring contract, Rondo and Gomes to Denver for Marcus Camby and Reggie Evans. (Rondo is the perfect fit in Denver because he’d never have to shoot.)

Camby, Jefferson, Pierce, Allen, Conley, with West, Szczerbiak, Evans and Perkins coming off the bench. Now that’s a balanced team. Good interior defense (Camby), low post scoring (Jefferson) blue chip perimeter scoring/slashing (Pierce), perimeter defense (Allen), and a great young pg to run the show. You would also have scoring (West, Szczerbiak) and defense/rebounding/enforcement (Perkins, Evans) coming off the bench. You would still neeed a couple more pieces (e.g another good wind defender off the bench), but that would be a good start at building a contending team. And it’s realistic and doable, not like some of the ridiculous trade proposals I see thrown around here and elsewhere.

Sure you don’t think of Lampe as “athletic” NOW. But back in the Chad Ford hyped era people thought he was. It’s the same with Keith Van Horn or Skita to name a few overhyped athletic “big men” with “good strokes.” I am not knocking Yi as I have never seen him play (and I bet few of you guys have either) but he absolutely represents the highest risk. Foreign picks are huge risks because they are often scouted poorly becuase of inferior competition or play under differing rules, and simple unfamiliarity with that player..

And BTW let’s distinguish between Chad’s reporting (excellent) and his scouting ability (god awful). I like Chad Ford as a reporter. But he should never been confused with a talent evaluatory. He isn’t even a Mel Kiper level talent scout LMAO… I was just pointing out that Chad Ford hype is often the kiss of death for a prospect. He loves Euros (and now evidently Chinese) and makes ALOT of mistakes with those guys..

Pete

At the very least I am intrigued by Yi. I do think the Celtics need to get a quality big guy and would select him each and every time over a Noah if we aren’t a top 2 winner in the draft selection.

Let me add that, if Tony Allen doesn’t come back from his knee injury, you simply start West at sg in the scenario I’ve outlined above. Also, there are very good sgs who will be available with pick #32 in this year’s draft. My personal fave is Derrick Byars, but you can put Morris Almond, Alando Tucker, Aaron Afflalo, Marcus Williams and Trey Johnson on the list. At least one of those players will be available with pick #32.

Both Byars and Tucker are excellent wing defenders, so they could fill that need off the bench as well.

My sentimental pick for a Josh Howard or a poor man’s Wade is Al Thornton. While Conley is tempting, I think that the corporate infatuation with Rondo is too high for them to consider trading him. While most of us don’t believe that Delonte West is the answer at PG either, it appears that the corporate mindset is that Delonte is ADEQUATE as a temporary PG substitution.

While we lack a good PG back-up, perhaps that spot will come via a trade for a draft spot in the first round (Acie Law) or as our potential focus at #32. Once we find out where we’ll be drafting the options could change considerably. If Green were included in the Denver deal instead of Rondo, I’d be far more tempted.

Isn’t Ainge the one who is supposed to be objective about players and not be swayed by “corporate infatuation?” As far as I can see, “corporate infatuation” has gotten them to 24 wins in the 4th year of their grand rebuilding plan.

I’m sure the Celtics marketeers are drooling over the prospect of selling a zillion trademarked items in China if the draft Yi. But if that’s what determines a draft pick, they ought to fire Ainge and let Rich Gotham do the drafting.

Yess, Mosqq, you would much prefer to include Green in the Denver deal, but Denver would be much more tempted by Rondo.

If they did the deal with Denver that I proposed, Green, Veal and Powe would be practice players at the end of the bench, or trade fodder.

The Wade of this draft is Corey Brewer. I absolutly love that kid’s game

I was just going to post the same thing as csfan33. Wade = Corey Brewer.

Corey Brewer is a spot up shooter, not a dribble penetrator. He’s nothing like Wade.

If we draft Conley we might as well trade Pierce cause he will need a couple of seasons to develop. I don’t believe most of the draft services have Conley top three. More like 9- 12. Other trhan that I like your trade Brick.

Conley won’t need any more time to develop than Chris Paul did. Conley is the most mature college freshman pg I’ve ever seen. He’s always in control. You know what Wooden said: “Act quickly but don’t hurry.” That describes Conley perfectly.

I disagree with Brick re Rondo. Rondo is good enough to start at the point for a play off team this year, and should be good enough to playing starting PG for a championship caliber team in a couple of years. To swap him out for Conley is an unproductive use of this draft. I just don’t see Conley as a big upgrade at the point over Rondo. I would rather take Brewer over Conley. Brewer has the skill set of Tayshean Prince, who, by the way, completely owned Luol Deng last night. Draftexpress has repeatedly denigrated Yi’s heart and toughness.

I am a big believer that a player to make it in the league has to have a skill and a natural position. If you look at where the NBA has gone wrong with prospects it ussually is for one of two reasons. First, scouts fall in love with a player’s athletic ability or size and ignore the fact that he has no NBA level basketball skills. Think Kendrick Brown or Jerome Moiso as examples. Second, the scouts fall in love with a guy who has skills but they are the wrong skills for his body type so that the guy becomes a tweener. This type of player is ussually a big man who can shoot but can’t play down low or do any of the things that you would traditionally expect from a big man yet is too big to handle the ball and defend smaller people the way you would expect a SG or SF would. So you end up with a big guy who at best hangs around outside and hits open shots, but doesn’t defend, block shots or rebound or create his own shot. The guy has skills but doesn’t have the right combination of skills to play any particular position. Once in a great while you get a Dirk Nowitski who can just do everything. But unless the guy is that level of a freak, he will turn out to be a PF who can’t do the things you expect a PF to do. I suspect that this guy from China is an example of the latter. But, I haven’t seen him play so maybe not, but my gut tells me he is.

It’s been one year. One. In one season you cannot tell whether Rondo will be a great/decent/serviceable/bust PG or not. Seem the only thing he lacks is a shot, but that hasn’t seemed to hamper Jason Kidd for the past 15 or so years. Labeling a young player after one season smacks of Pitinoesque logic. Look no further than Chauncey Billups to see where that leads to.

Brick is a funny guy, but to believe that he or Chad Ford, or bill simmons, know anything more about the NBA and talent evaluation than any other casual watcher of basketball is ridiculous. Fun to read their opinions, more fun to watch them whine, pout, and throw temper tantrums, and just as much fun to see how convinced they are of their own opinions, but they are by no means basketball experts or have any real clue about how to evaluate talent on the NBA level.

Yi sounds intriguing, but filter through the hype that has to come with the draft and realize that much of this is just trying to generate interest in the draft outside of the 1-2 picks; create some drama in an effort to get you to read and generate buzz.
Danny has a great record on draft picks. I would trust his evaluation on talent l-o-n-g before I trusted anyone at ESPN or a casual board poster. If he made the trip to China 2-3 times to see this kid that means he say something worthwhile there.

there is no wade in this draft.

I’m as good or better at evaluating basketball talent as Chad Ford— but that isn’t saying much. Of course I lack Ford’s sources of information and ability to attend workouts, and Danny Ainge isn’t on my rolodex.

The only other thing is that still don’t see ratliff being traded Brick. They won’t want the extra salary on the books for 08-09. Camby & Evans are solid players but what does it do to the payroll for that season? If the pick goes I see it going with Wally or they slide back a couple of draft spots (in an exchange of picks) and pick up a small change vet.

I will maintain that Doc has had three years with several of the same players and they all speak the same language Doc does. He has not taught them the slightest inkling of defense. Individual, team, or otherwise. You could make a case (based on record) that that core has regressed defensively.

Is anyone suggesting he’ll do a better job with sign language?

I don’t think it matters who they draft as long as Rivers is coaching.

Well if Ratliff isn’t traded they aren’t bringing in a veteran “star” to play alongside Pierce under any circumstances. Stars have big salaries, and salaries have to match in most trades.

My proposal would subject them to one year of luxury tax in 2008-2009. They would be OK (or close to it) after Wally’s deal expires. And they avoid having to pay fair a market extension to Gomes on 2008-2009. If they do, he’ll cost about the same as Evans.

You could also try to get Najera back from Denver instead of Evans, but that would make the deal much less attractive to the Nuggets.

Maybe Ainge kept going back because he didn’t see anything, trying to figure out what he missed. I would hope, whatever he does with the pick and/or trades, he needs to come away with a rebounder/defender.

I agree, VT Bill. In fact he needs to come away with two defenders: one in the paint and another on the perimeter. Someone needs to be able to slow down the other team’s best player, and Pierce and Szczerbiak aren’t going to do it. And even if he’s 100%, Tony Allen can’t play 48 minutes every night (although dummy Rivers had him doing that last year after Pierce got hurt).

Well Master Po, we can dream, can’t we?

Whenever I feel the numbness set in I think about that spicy Indian food up in Toronto.

I would love to have defensive-oriented players. But under Doc, they won’t play. And in Doc’s “defense” (very loose use of the word) a person won’t be able to tell who plays good defense and who doesn’t because his defense almost requires that all 5 defenders are always out of position.

Brick, I know the salaries have to match and that’s why we probably won’t acquire a “major star”. You and I agree on defense. That’s why I hope Brewer would be good enough defensively at the NBA level. I would try to improve the D in place of getting so called “star” as I don’t see one coming here.

i agree with Manup that brewer is the wade of 2007.

You know Plowboy, we were having a pretty good roll here with the topics until you had to bring out the Fire Doc card. Even Brick went quite a few posts without a Doc comment. Try to add something that is relevant to the topic at hand and not the same OLD crap. If the topic is Doc then that is one thing. When it is finally about draft picks and who we are going to get then keep it to yourself for awhile. Things were starting to get fun and interesting for awhile!!

If we don’t get the 1-2 pick and especially if we are sitting in the 4-5 spot I think that they should gamble on Yi. If Danny has seen this kid play as much as he has and there are that many people saying such great things about him then it is a good risk. There is nothing wrong with the clincher being the endorsements in China. It is a business after all and that will go a long way towards keeping ticket prices in control and the possibility of dipping a bit into the luxury tax area if needed. If he isn’t a pretty good prospect then obviously it wouldn’t be worth it. If we get the 3 then I still think Brandan Wright is the pick to make…

Why is Yi more of a gamble than Brandan Wright? I’ll tell you one thing: even from watching a 30-second video, I can tell you that Yi has a much better shooting stroke than Wright.

Brick – are you looking at the video on youtube? That was the first time I have actually seen him. All I heard was he looked to be a bit frail. He didn’t look that frail to me on that video and even though he was against a lot of lesser talent appeared to have some nice moves. Doesn’t appear to be a back to the basket player, but we already have that in Big Al and to a small degree Perk. I trust that Danny has seen enough to be convinced one way or the other. Maybe he is just setting things up to take someone else if he ends up at 5 and thinks someone higher would grab Yi and leave his guy. That is an awfully expensive game though… I think the place that I like Wright so much is defensively. I envision a Kirilenko type of player out of him. A lot of weak-side blocks and a solid rebounder. Hustle out on the floor and running the break with Rondo. I saw him in person and he OWNS the basket area defensively.

argh i hate this negative thinking.. until May 23rd this will not cross my mind..

for once ignorance is bliss.

PLAYA, I simply pointed out the obvious. It’s pretty difficult, beyond Rondo to tell who is an excellent defender on our team and who isn’t. West is good, Perk is good. Scal is good. Al has improved some. But people want defensive oriented people? So do I. But when it isn’t coached, when it isn’t a priority, it really doesn’t matter who you bring in. Defense a mentality that’s rooted in leadership. It’s never been a high priority of Paul’s, although he was a fair defender pre-Doc. So it comes down to coaching. ;D So if your priority is trying to win the most games under this system, you’d take the best pure shooter available…because defense doesn’t matter in this “system”. So if Yi, as Brick says, has the best stroke, I’m with you two….grab him if he’s there at 5. A pure shooter will have a chance to develop his offense under Doc….Because he’ll play if he has any kind of offensive basketball IQ after the obligatory rookie half-season on the bench. A strong defender/rebounder will never smell the court barring injuries….or “injuries”. That’s reality, PLAYA. We can dream all we want if we land in this spot or that spot. But at the end of the day Doc Rivers is still coaching this team. So under this coach the best choice isn’t always the obvious one.

Well I don’t know who to take where. I was just responding to the comment that Brandan Wright should be taken ahead of Yi. Now Brandan wright may be way better at rebounding, defending, etc. etc. than Yi, but I don’t know that. What I can see is that Yi is a better shooter. (The clip I saw was on ESPN insider, not youtube).

Right now I would take Mike Conley at #3. And if I had the choice between Brandan Wright and Tiago Splitter, I would take Splitter. I don’t know enough about Yi right now to choose between him and Splitter.

PLowboy, it is pretty apparent from the numerous posts in the past you hate Doc. My comment is that it had absolutely nothing to do with the thread. We were discussing Yi and who the next Wade is. I’m just tired of every post the last month being about Doc. Now that we finally get a good discussion going you threw out the Doc card and nothing else. With your logic, if we were to get Duncan, Garnett, Nash, and Redd to play with Pierce and a similarly talented bench, we couldn’t win anyway with Doc so why bother… Come on! Let’s discuss these picks and be optimitistic about improving next year. If we don’t increase wins by at least 12-15 it will be amazing.

Brick, thanks for the link on the espn spot on him. There is some game film clips on youtube.com (search with his full name) and other than the annoying music in the background and grainy film it is worth seeing as well. One of the clips is him against Gasol even. That espn spot was excellent though. I might even be convinced to take him ahead of Wright… He looks smooth and can use both hands. He might be nice at the 3 and push Paul to the 2… I can’t believe with that quickness and length and athleticism he couldn’t be a solid defender, shotblocker, and rebounder. Now I see why Danny went over there so much.

And with the 4th pick in the 2007 NBA draft, the Boston Celtics select……….
From the University of Florida, Cory Brewer.

I’ve got a feeling.

With your logic, if we were to get Duncan, Garnett, Nash, and Redd to play with Pierce and a similarly talented bench, we couldn’t win anyway with Doc so why bother..

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Well, PLAYA, if Duncan ends up on the perimeter and Nash is trying to block out a 7 footer on the boards, as is the usual scenario of our defensive “scheme” currently when the shot goes up, Doc could “lead”
that talented group to a .500 record. However, regardless of who we draft, PLAYA, with the defense set up the way it is now and the bizarre crunch-time coaching decisions when Doc is actually trying to win games…12 additional wins is a reach, IMHO.
  
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Talk about the draft? Okay. I rule out Oden and Durant. I believe we will draft 5th…and they won’t be there. But based on the team as it’s constructed now, and their inattentiveness to defense and focus on offense…(although it’s hard to tell what kind of offense) I’d look for the best offensive players in the draft. If for some reason we could choose, I’d take Oden. At 5, if available I’d take Hibbert or Noah. But I think Durant is a better fit for this team and this “coach”.
Based on a few clips and what Brick said, not to mention the scouting reports, Yi sounds like a decent gamble. Conley, if available. I would almost expect Danny to trade down if we end up where I think we will. Same thing would apply there, best available offensive player. Otherwise, the prospect won’t play.

You’ve got to be kidding plowboy. That seals your fate. It’s all about the hate of Doc with you, not about reality. I could coach that team to the finals. And no we don’t have our point gaurd down on the low post boxing out centers. If that were the case we wouldn’t have our 2 starting fwds and center averaging a combined 22 boards a game. You saw one rotation in one of the games this year with a switch and a pg on the block and you are overstating. We improved dramatically in the defensive side of the ball this year. Each of the last 3 years in fact. Go look at back posts of mine with specifics. Rebounding, opponents fg %, etc. You can criticize his offensive flow, which I agree with most of the time, but defensively we were a better team…

Also, Hibbert and Noah as your top 2 behind Oden and Durant?! You really out to put that thing you’re smoking out!!! Those two are 8-12 spot players at best. There are at least 5-6 better players after Oden and Durant to take than those two… At least you are likely right on one thing. Durant is a better fit for this team than Oden in my opinion as well… You gotta think before you make baseless comments though. Please!

 We improved dramatically in the defensive side of the ball this year. Each of the last 3 years in fact. Go look at back posts of mine with specifics.
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Oh my!! We went from 45 to 33 to 24 wins. Where did we dramatically improve? If you think our defense against the pick and roll has dramatically improved…or our perimeter defense, WOW!! Perk is still at the top of the key when the opponent’s shot goes up as often as he’s down low….and Rondo, West and Pierce are trying to block out 3s 4s and 5s. I saw 81 games…of which we won 24. I must have missed the dramatic defensive improvement…because as I said, in this defense, it’s hard to tell who’s and excellent defender because everybody is out of position. If you see dramatic improvement in any facet of this defense, PLAYA, I would challenge you to think before making baseless comments. The stats don’t mean a thing. I’m looking at the team’s record. That record could have been 5 games better the first year, 12-15 games last year, and 10-12 games this year with even an NBDL caliber game coach. It would appear to me that Danny is trying to get into the lottery again based on keeping the status quo. I base my opinion on that.
What exactly does Perk do in the Celtic’s offense, PLAYA? He passes from the high post and moves low for offensive rebounds…he really does little else. Is there a better high post passing center in the draft than Hibbert? I also mentioned Yi, but don’t know enough about him. I just plain think Noah is going to turn out to be very good. I see him as a better version of Varejao. Are there better players? Yes. I want someone who, in this system, (whatever the hell that is), and this “coach” has a chance to get playing time. Is Conley better? Yes. Would he play the first half-season under Doc? No. I don’t think Oden, Durant, Wright, or Horford will be there when we draft…so I’m not considering them.