Daily Links 5/20

Actually the trade proposal by “AsUdUdE” isn’t bad in theory and could easily be makde to work under the CBA by taking James Jones out of the deal and giving Boston pick #24 instead.

It would be Ratliff, Ray and #2 for Marion, #5, #24 and a 2009 first round pick (unprotected). If I thought I could get Mike Conley, Jr. at #5 I would do that in a heartbeat.

Perkins
Jefferson
Marion
Pierce
Rondo

or you could go small:

Jefferson
Marion
Pierce
West (or Allen)
Rondo

It they want to win before Pierce retires, they should do this. But the owners have to be willing to get killed by the luxury tax for at least one year (2008-2009).

Brick,
Don’t ever take Perk out of the equation…You’ll see…later

As an addendum,
The thought of trading #2 for anyone is berserk

Why is trading #2 berserk? I’m not sold on Durant. I could get Mike Conley with #5, a player like Belinelli or Fernandez with pick #24. Plus, if Phoenix has a bad year in 2009 (suppose Nash gets hurt— he’ll be 35 by then), I get a shot at another top pick.

If we don’t the first or second pick I really feel as though the Celts should draft Mike Conley. The playoffs have demonstrated once again that without a top point guard it is so difficult to win consistently.

Forwards will always be available , however, a premiere point guard doesn’t come along that often. I like Rondo, but I’m not so sure he is the answer given his offensive limitations.

Yeah, I’d imagine that after a dissapointing 6 Game series against the Spurs, the Suns would be fielding offers for SMarrion. Its the logical choice. He is expensive though. I’d do it for#3 but not a top 2. But like someone pointed out, the owners will not pay the luxury tax.

..Master Po, man I hope we don’t draft Hoibert. I think he is a bust. The kid has no lateral quickness

nope, not the end of the story since the story is communal, it just keeps going. for example…

One of these 5 plsyers will be a Celtic next year -

Oden/Durant/Wright/Yi/Horford

hibbert will be good, but wright will be much better.

ooops. forgot to mention. the story on green was excellent. one of the fairer pieces of writing i have seen on him.

Roy Hibbert will not become a Celtic on draft night under any circumstances.

Hibbert=Eric Montross. Slow footed non-jumping tall guy. Good post moves against lower quality and smaller players, but will not transition to the NBA well. Perkins is every bit the player Hibbert will be at this point and should just get better. Bad move if we get this guy. I hope you’re right Brick. Horford is a waste for as well. He will never be a superstar in this league IMO, and we have Big Al. Why would we waste a low pick on a position that we are already set at?! We either need a dramatic upgrade at the center spot, or another lights out scorer like Durant or Brewer, or a defensive stopper like Brandan Wright. Yi of course is interesting as well.

should read Horford is a waste for “US” as well…

We should be entertaining trade proposals on Pierce and not the draft pick IMO. We could have had a boat load of talent/picks/ filler salary after the season Pierce had a little over a year ago. His trade stock has dropped after that sheer of invicibilty was stripped this year. He is already a step or so slower on “D” and in the next several years probably won’t have that great first step to get it to the rim as he does now.

We made the exact same mistake with Robert Parrish. The Chief’s skills were declining and when we could have gotten value for him, we held on. We were not “progressive” enough to do the right thing. I loved the Chief and he will always be a Celt in my mind, yet he ended up leaving anyway and we got squat for him.

If we were one player away from the crown, you think maybe give it a last ditch effort run. We aren’t there and we won’t get there trying to do the Pierce plus youth, or Pierce plus vet/draft trade.

How come Spencer Hawes is never mentioned in these discussions? He seems like a legitimate big with alot of talent. I really wonder whether he is not prejudiced by the fact he is white and doesnt have give you of ESPN highlight thunder dunks NBA fans love, irregardless of actual productivity for the team. I think he might be overlooked in this draft

sorry about the horrible english. you get the idea

If we do the stupid things we did last year, we are going to be in deep do-do for years to come. I posted the day it happened, the Telfair deal was insane. Yet I was told to give Telfair a few years and I’d be proven wrong. And “greatnes” was coming our way due to saving a year on Raef’s salary. I was also told that you have to trust Danny, Danny is the man and he knows what he’s doing.

I know some don’t like the negativity but “stupid is what stupid does”. Once I know in a few days where we are in the selection process, like everyone else I’ll throw my two cents in. If Danny and Company pull what they did last year and then spin the whole pre and regular season spinning, expect the negativity to be what it has been and more.

Houston goes 52-30 makes the playoffs in the tough west with injuries and come within a whisker of the 2nd round. They fire their coach. Our guy gets 24W, and we are told what an awesome job he has done and give him an extension.

As a fan, that is nothing much I can do, but I will not be an enabler to the destruction of this franchise by Danny and Co.

I’m not sold on Oden or Durant either. I haven’t seen either one play, but my sense from what I’ve read is that Durant is flash and Oden more solid long term. I know Tommy H. said this, but I too tried to watch Oden and everytime I did he was on the bench in foul trouble. I know this can be cured. I’m starting to think Oden will have more of an impact as far as giving us a chance at a championship. I like the idea of, at least considering making a GOOD trade if we can get either one, but I’d be more in favor of doing it with Durant. I think his flash, if that’s true, will be better bait. I also think alot of teams will want to make changes this off season and with one of these guys the C’s will hold the better cards.

Durant is not flash. Period. He is heart, desire, persistence and TALENT. When he gets an NBA body, the sky is the limit. Oden’s performance against Florida tells you a lot about him.

If they are lucky enough to get one of the first two picks, they should not pass it up. These players simply don’t come around very often and what’s the likelihood of the Celtics getting one of the top two picks in any of the coming years, nevermind one with this talent? Look at all that had to go wrong this year to have a half-decent chance.

I agree Durant is no flash in the pan. I watched some of his games against Kansas University and believe me he has the NBA “goods”. He’s a bit thin and needs to physically grow into his adult body (like Gerald Green), but other than that he’s got it all. He has been called the best freshman to ever play college ball (true, but remember Lew Aclindor and others could not play varsity ball until sophomores-so you need to put an * with that claim). Danny Manning almost single handily led KU to an NCAA crown, and Manning (director of KU student athletes) admits, Durant is a much better collegiate player right now then he ever was and is destined for greatness in the NBA.

And remember, this Danny (Manning) has no need to “spin”.

I still take Oden, but Durant is no consolation prize and if Danny gets him and trades him, there will be a whole lot of weeping on this board for the next 10 years not unlike Tim Duncan/Spurs.

That is not the trade for us with Phoenix.we should counter such a deal if offered and keep our position in the draft no matter where it is. the luxury tax problem is Phoenix and we should wait for a better offer not involving our lottery pick this year.

That trade with the Suns is definitely not a bad idea. Marion fits a need for us. Plus with the #5 pick at least coming back as well, I’d then take Spencer Hawes at #5 and have our Center need filled.

“Iâ€â"¢ve never smoked marijuana WITH Larry Bird or John Mellencamp” – Too funny Mr. Mchale, you master word-smith you.
Re: The lottery, I 100% agree. Adopt the NFL system where the worst team gets the #1 pick. It may encourage more tanking but screw it, if you’re bad and not even close to making the playoffs, (considering the horrible teams that sneak in with the 8th seed) you need help.

And on another note I truly believe everything is going to work out fine for the C’s on lottery draft night. Things will get better so sway the worrying and look towards good things to come (I’m pretty much Nostradamus) :)

The odds are slightly less and 1 in 3 that they will get the 4th pick. That’s what I’m expecting.

You’ll know that the Celtics are probably screwed as soon as one of the teams in the 8-12 range is skipped in the countdown…

Brick,

What is your opinion on Spencer Hawes?

I saw Hawes a few times on FSN late night and he has promise. Seems like an old fasioned type of center with a potential post game and is a pretty decent passer. He has a ways to go rebounding wise plus I’m not sure he’ll ever be a dominant defensive player.

I think the most interesting aspect of the draft is that if we end up at #3 or #4 what will Ainge do with the pick. Trade (and for who) or draft (and will he go for long term potential or NBA ready).

Hawes= a young Brad Miller. Nice offensive skills. Doesn’t rebound that well.

Since the greatest odds for us is the #2 pick of all picks, and the Durant/Pierce do you make the trade question, I throw this out if Durant is picked:

1) Don’t trade Durant under any circumstances.
2) You don’t stand pat with SF of: Pierce,Durant, Wally, Green, Gomes
3) You make the best deal possible for Pierce
4) In the wings you see if you have any takers for a Wally/Green combo trade, assuming another club has high hopes for Green’s potential and will drag Wally’s salary along with it and #s work for all.

• Worst things that can happen with Durant on the team:
  -Danny stays pat with the line up and does nothing, and we have the same problems as last year with guys playing out of postion or having to sit because we have too many similiar players. As a fan, I will not accept Doc playing Durant only 12-15 minutes a game because he is given minutes to Wally, etc. Then to have to hear the excuse that young ones need to earn minutes.

On Mr. Durant

I can recall watching Larry Bird in college and thinking he was a great college player. My opinion was he would be a very good NBA player but was not sold on him being Larry Legend or along with Magic taking the NBA to a new level.

That being said, I see a lot of Larry Bird in Kevin Durant. Larry is one of the most intelligent players to ever put on a uniform. When you watch games, he many times took the game over himself like true superstars can. On the college level, Durant is the same way. There are times he goes with the flow, other times he just takes over the game with all the skills he has.

It will probably take a few years before that type of domiance happens in the NBA, but Larry had the intangilbles, and from what I see Durant has it too.

Hey Jeff,

here a thought for Tuesday….asking all of us what we will be doing once the draft is held….I for one will not watch it…too painful

What a great year of pre-draft discussions. A classic example of 2 completely different, but highly talented players. Will the discission still be going on a year from now?

Will it be like drafting Bird or Magic? Either way you win – big. Or will one of the big 2 become far better than the other?

As mentioned by others, I’ll be looking for other players, further down the draft list to make surprising leaps to fame. It could happen.

I can’t take this waiting.

Oden and Durant have the ability to transform a team (if that team has some pieces) from bad to very good immediately. Since ‘97, who could that be said of going into the draft? Tim Duncan. LeBron. Oden. Durant. That is why this draft is so critical. This is the Cs best shot at doing something before Pierce’s elbow falls off.

I really don’t want to see Marion here – especially not for Durant! I can’t see taking Conley in the top 8 or 10 with all the good big guys in the draft.

Mike Conley is going to be an all star and there will be at least 6 teams kicking themselves for drafting some big stiff instead of Conley.

Conley is good Frank but i think you are overating a tad. He’s not Isiah.

Brick, it’s obvious that you like Conley and feel that Rondo has too far to go to become an elite PG. There are those of us who feel that Rondo is the real deal and we have the patience to wait.

  Drafting Conley, despite his promise, seems like another DUPLICATION of talent which would create even more imbalance on our roster. We don’t need two dominant PGs as much as we need size inside. This is no indictment against Conley, just a decision based on need when comparable talent at more desirable positions is available.

We do need another quality back-up PG and we have the 32nd pick to work with. I also think that we’ll be making a play for some of Phoenix’s 3 draft choices since they need cash more than increased payroll.

I would draft Conley and trade Rondo in a package to get a veteran like Marion or Camby. Conley is already better than Rondo.

As I said, there will be 5-6 teams kicking themselves for not taking Conley, just like the Hawks are kicking themselves of taking Marvin Williams instead of Chris Paul.

Conley is a 19 PG with one year of college. I wouldn’t trade players to create a position for him. I really think Rondo/West can handle the PG spot. We’re a 23 win team with lots of other holes to fill. But if the hype on him continues to grow, why not draft him at 4-5 and trade him. B Wright, Horford, Hawes, Noah, Splitter, are lots of PF-C types between 3-10 in the draft.

Well, Durant is a 19 year-old forward, and Oden is a 19 year-old center (who owes much of his success to Conley), each with one year of college. So are Spencer Hawes and Brandan Wright. Your point is what?

Conley plays with a maturity beyond his years. I would draft Conley and trade Rondo or West in a package to get a good interior defender, e.g. Marcus Camby.

Just remember this thread a year or two from now, when all those teams (including the Celtics) are kicking themselves. Conley has the potential to be as good as Chris Paul or Deron Williams. Rondo does not. Rondo is a great helter skelter player but he cannot run an offense as well as Conley (or as well as West, for that matter).

Brick – I agree that Conley would be a good player to have, but he is a 6 foot tall PG and 170 lbs (I’m sure they’re not exaggerating that at all! ) that has only played at the college level. To say that he is already better than Rondo is quite a stretch. Rondo played this year against NBA caliber point guards. Conley did not. He should be good but that is getting carried away. I don’t think he is that much of an upgrade over what we have with Rondo/West, so why waste the pick when we can fill a big hole?!

Brandan Wright reminds me a ton of Camby. Why do I want him now when he can’t play a full season anymore and is on the down-hill slide? By the time that we truly get to the level of competing for a title Wright will be playing strong and Camby will be on the reserve list comtemplating retirement.

We need one more all-star caliber player to go along with Paul and Al to push deep in the playoffs, and another to compete for #17. If we were one player away from that then that might make sense, but when we are a couple players (if not 3) from compteting let’s not mortgage the future to be an also-ran.

Please don’t compare Conley to Chris Paul. Give him some time in the league first. Definitely not someone you reconstruct your team for. There has to be other ways we can get Marcus Camby. Count Rick Carlisle as a big fan of Rondo calling him a “gamechanger”.

I like both Rondo and West. But Conley is better. He will have more of a positive impact on the team that drafts him than all of the tall players except Oden and Durant.

Ancient Red, I have to watch. I have to see for myself. I couldn’t not watch! Though I’m preparing for heartbreak again.