Why We Won’t Trade Paul Pierce

I said it before the draft and after the draft and now once again. Our present lottery system is poorly designed. It fails to deliver the end result for which it was created!

I did panic after the lottery results were announced. Like many bloggers, I wondered where we go from here. Had we gotten Durant, a case could be made for trading Pierce but panic can cause you to do alot of stupid things. We need Pierce more than ever to keep a winning tradition, although far short of a championship.

If we’re as bad as our past year’s record, history will repeat and we’ll once again be drafting high in the lottery. This scenario, although painful, may take a few years but the eventual prize is another shot at our 17th championship.

When the disappointing panic passed, I started to look at our drat options and despair changed to anticipation. There have been other great selections at #5. In each case the choice was made for TALENT and not need. Danny has drafted well in the past when the cupboard was bleak. He may not draft the best-of-the-rest, but he will get a very good player.

Depending upon Horford and Yi not being available and Green returning to school, there’s a 50/50 chance that Danny will surprise us by selecting Al Thornton. Al’s bio is very impressive, his determination well illustrated and his talent undeniable. His only negative is being 6’7" and not 6’10" or bigger.

He has much of Paul Pierce in his game and his upside remains high. He’s at least another Josh Howard in potential.

Paul gives us a chance to win every night and a reason for fans to show up. He is the face of the team and teams need that to make money. I think we are okay as we stand regarding the players. I am fairly certain we have the wrong coach. My best pals are Bulls and Pistons fans, and they say the same thing every year…The Doctor is Out! Without a new coach you are in trouble…I hope the Good Doc and Ainge can prove em all wrong…but I doubt it.

I don’t quite see the logic of trading PP. Everyone is unhappy that the C’s have been losing, so what do we do? Trade our best player? That does not make too much sense. The next question is, to trade for whom? Jeff is right to point out that we are not really going to get some great offer for PP. So we trade the best player for an uncertain prospect or two and some cap relief. Again, makes little sense to me.

I actually think it is not that much of a spin when DA claims that we are a playoff team when healthy. I mean we were 16 games out of the play offs but the knock against us was that we were tanking. So the question is how many more games we could have won without tanking and with a healthy roster. At the moment, this team as is certainly not worth than the 8-seed Orlando. Add the #5 pick, someone useful for Ratliff and a youngster and the picture looks OK.

So, let’s not panic by trading away the best guy on the roster and starting from the scratch.

Honestly, and I am just throwing it out there, but I highly doubt Pierce is here working out. Doesn’t he live in LA? Al and Kendrick I can see as those two are always together and Wally is probably rehabbing his injury, but Paul? I can see him going home to get some reats and get his body healed again…

Just more fluff from the Celtics Organization trying to distract you from the fact that they got the 5 pick…can’t wait towatch Yi flame out in a green jersey….

Sorry…I am still Mr. Sour Grapes here…..

I visited the website of the American Ostrich Association at http://www.ostriches.org/factor.html#head, and learned to my chagrin that ostriches do not, in fact, bury their heads in the sand when they see trouble coming. Instead, they run away as fast as they can.

So I will have to come up with another metaphor to describe Celtics’ ownership and its unwillingness to face reality.

If we keep Paul then we should trade the pick and some of our guys for another star player and try to win now. This is what the owners want (we think), What the fans want. But what happens if we can’t get the star player? What if Danny makes a bad trade trying to do this out of fear for his job (we know his record). I still believe as much as I have never wanted to say it… Its time to trade Paul. I still say we trade him to Minny for their #7 and some other player/s of theirs. Let them go the route of “we need to win now” and let us build a team built for the long hall. I also like my idea of trading our #5 and some of our youth we know we don’t need to Atlanta for their #3 and #11. If Danny could find a way to get 3 first round pick in this deep draft I believe it would be great for the long term helth of our team. However most of the fans don’t have the will to wait that long. My fear is we the fans our going to force this team into doing something that’s only good for the now and hurts us in the future.

They shouldn’t trade Pierce. He’s a top ten player in the league and will be for several more years. He inspires the young guys as a leader. Unless you were to get another top-ten player for him, trading him would set the organization back for years. They need Pierce. A full season of Pierce and Jefferson playing together? I’m looking forward to it.

I say do it.. we need something new and fresh.. we have already bottomed out , its not like anyones expectations have been rised after yesterday.Blow it up already.

ok I shouldn’t write on here before my morning coffee. I’m sorry for so many typos in the above comment…

I don’t understand the comment that Paul Pierce gives us the chance to win every night. Please! he’s a very very good player, but I cringe in the last 15 seconds of a close game with the ball in his hands. His stats are terrific, but his victory totals are terrible. And I know,I know, its not his fault totally. We went out and paid him top dog money and he’s not one. I wouldn’t be against trading him, but we can’t expect to get a star at the top of his game/demand. The players I’d think a deal could be worked out for in some form are Zach Randolph, Lamar Odom, Kirilenko, and an assortment of Sac Kings trash. As part of multi team deals, we could get repackage that for other players/picks.
   All the great teams seem to have great management. Thats the enduring quality that keeps them consistently winning. We don’t even know what style of play we want, unless its run a little, defend a little, shoot a lot. Paul Pierce isn’t the reason we haven’t won a championship since he was in 4th grade.

Pierce padding his stats isn’t helping the Celtics. As I wrote before, if I could swing a deal that would send him and our second round pick somewhere to somehow get Conley and Jianlian, I would do it. That would a give us a nucleus for years to come.

In years past, I wouldn’t dream of trading Pierce, but now I’m older and wiser. Pierce has great stats, but I’m interested in the bottom line— winning.

Keep Pierce. Draft Brewer, Horford or Noah, get Chris Richards in 2nd, sign Trajan Langdon as a free agent (First Team All-Euro), do one Medium-sized trade, call her good. THAT Irish stew will be tasting pretty good by midseason.

There are 3 ways to go with the team, the first is to build a complete veteran team and give up anyone to do it.

The second is to stay the course and keep adding onto the current roster with the draft picks we have and trade for a couple of veteran role players without giving up your best young talent.

The Third is to trade for a KG or a O’Neil etc and give your draft picks and some of your best young talent.

1. Building a veteran team: The Celtics know they have to win now and the only way to do that is to keep Pierce and he wants to be a Celtic. We could trade our draft picks and trade some current players for veterans on other teams. Should we go that way? You need 3 or 4 great players to win a championship and Boston has Pierce and Jefferson. You also need veteran role players on the bench. The Spurs have Duncan, Ginobli and Parker, you need the center, PG and 2/3 player to be great to win. Pistons have Wallace, Billups and Hamilton along with Prince. Both teams have mostly veteran players on the bench and they all can play defense. So to win a championship in the NBA you have to have teams similar to their makeup that play balanced offense and defense.

2. Stay on the same track keeping your best young talent and add a couple of veteran role players. We are not setup to win a championship so we have to go the patient route and continue to add experience to the young players on the team. So if the Celtics can afford Jefferson, Rondo and Greene’s contract in the future then we will be close to a contender because they will have the experience in a few years. The problem is Pierce will be older but the window is only a few years. The one thing I have been saying since 1986 when we had the similar makeup of today’s championship teams we do not have enough talented PF’s/Centers. We are going into next year with Perk possibly still having plantar fasciatis and Al can sprain his ankles often. I think we have to draft 2 big men in the draft. If it is Horford, Wright or Yi to play the PF. Along with the next best available Center or PF that can run the floor. There are 20 PF’s and Centers in the draft this year. The second pick won’t be nearly as strong but they could be traded for a veteran big man from another team if there are any out there.

Third way to get better for short term. Trade for KG or O’Neill and give up you future stars and draft picks.

I think the second choice works the best be patient.

You don’t trade Pierce right now if you’re Danny Ainge because it would ake you the Chicago Bulls of 9 years ago, just beginning the process to get where they are now.

In fact, no trade of consequence will happen because the only other player people want (Jefferson) is not a #1 star player; which means that he would need to be accompanied by a ridiculous number of other assets to make it work. I’m talking the #5 pick, Green, and Theo (for contract purposes), and perhaps another player. This would be a fleecing of major proportions that we would seriously regret, especially if the #5 pick turns out to be a all-star five years from now.

I would make one exception: Kevin Garnett. Minnesota is the only franchise that would possibly go for a deal like this because they’ve been around the track with him for a very long time, and may be thinking about starting over. It would still require us to overpay; but Garnett is special enough to make it worth it for 4 years or so.

Other than that (unlikely) possibility, we’ve got to use the pick and hope to get lucky on a guy nobody thought would turn out to be great a la Chris Bosh. Personally, I like taking a chance on Yi. It’s a HUGE gamble because we have no idea what he’d become. But, he looks like he could provide us with a Nowitzki-type player (not saying he’d be as good) to compliment Al’s post game. Defensively we’d still suck, and we still won’t make the playoffs until Rondo figures out how to shoot a 18 foot pull up jumper. But, it would be fun to watch!

I made this point on like four other threads and no one pays any attention to it. The Celtics had no business finishing with the second worst record in the league last year. They were obliterated by injuries went from what should have been a 35 to 40 win team to a 24 win team. They still have the 35 to 40 win roster, only a year older and better. Plus they have the fifth pick in the draft and the opportunity to draft anyone one of three or four players, all of whom would have been the number 1 pick had they come out with their current skill level last year. Noah was the consensus number 1 pick had he come out last year and he is going to go in the 6 to 9 range this year. So quit cyring already. This team should finally get some decent luck and stay healthy. They are going to get some kind of vet, probably a pg or a defensive big man in return for Theo’s contract and they are going to be a lot better. What is even funnier is that Doc will still be a lousy coach, but because the team had a deflated number of wins last year and has the chance to improve its personnel in the off season, he probably wins coach of the year next year in spite of himself. Think about it. The Celtics win say 42 games next year, that would be an 18 game improvement making Doc a “genius”. I hope Brick stays away from sharp objects when that happens.

The Celtics also have one big advantage, they play in the East. None of the teams in the east except Detroit who is about to hit their sell by date are any good. It won’t take that much to make a big jump in the standings. As awful as it is to loose Oden and Durrant, they are going to play in the West. The East is practically the CBA now. I am not sure it isn’t the third best league in the world now behind the West and the Premier Spanish league. No kidding. The Celtics need to stop panicing, don’t give away the pick and keep Pierce.

I’ve been a Danny supporter and I still think he will get us to where we are winning bball team all the time BUT I think the C’s have to do one of 2 things this summer: either trade the pick along with gerald, ratliffe, telfair and whoever else you want to toss in for Garnett OR trade Pierce , draft soomeone at 5 and commit to the youth program. I don’t see any other options. the fans, owners and management don’t want a repeat of next year and frankly, even with a healthy team we’re not a championship team. you have to wonder is a championship is possible with pierce and a bunch of young guys. I don’t think it is. without oden or durant in the mix I don’t see us becoming the next spurs or even pistons

Why do people want to get Conley Jr and we have Rondo already? We dont want both of them playing at the same time nor do we want one playing only 15 minutes per game. If the Celtics want Conley Jr then you have to trade Rondo instead of DWest. Dwest to me is the perfect safety valve at point guard right now to go along with his scoring ability and other attributes.

Jeff, I’m basically with you on this one. It makes sense and it’s realistic. I would disagree with some of what you say about Danny. You seem to imply that this is an ego thing with him. I don’t think this is about Danny, Doc or the Owners. It’s just about making the Celtics better and getting back to the glory days. It’s about making well thought out objective decisions on the roster (and trying to implement these) and continuing the teaching process until we get better. Everyone has their job to do and I’m sure they will do what’s right within the limits of reality. We also need to remember that we need partners to make the moves that need to be made. The only factors we have complete control over is a decision of what to do with the #5 and other draft pick and who we want to remove from the roster. We can also pick up undrafted players and make an offer to a free agent. Other than those we need the cooperation of other teams and that is unlikely, but not out of the question.

jimmywolfrey said:
"
Why do people want to get Conley Jr and we have Rondo already? We dont want both of them playing at the same time nor do we want one playing only 15 minutes per game. If the Celtics want Conley Jr then you have to trade Rondo instead of DWest."

Conley is alot better. Not just a little better, much better. Trade Rat5liff and Rondo to Denver for Marcus Camby. They have to do something about their sieve-like interior defense.

The Blazers passed on MJ (taking Bowie instead) because they had Drexler. Should the Celtics make the same kind of mistake? Well, if you listen to Ainge, they’re about to do exactly that.

Actually, I think they will trade the pick for one or more over-the-hill big name players to sell a few more tickets. Pierce is starting to lose his cachet as a marketing icon through overexposure. They need something better than that dumb cardboard cutout to sell tickets.

Jeff said:
I think it is less about ego for Ainge and more about him fighting for his job (which means defending his decisions and reputation)

I don’t think Danny is concerned with fighting for his job. He’s trying to do his job. He really doesn’t need the job. And I don’t think he needs to defend himself. All I know is that this is a better team today than the one he took over. He had to work with low draft picks. He made some moves that didn’t work out. We all do. Ainge is thoughtful and objective in his decision making. We can’t ask for much more from him.

Alaskandude: “Keep Pierce. Draft Brewer, Horford or Noah, get Chris Richards in 2nd, sign Trajan Langdon as a free agent (First Team All-Euro), do one Medium-sized trade, call her good. THAT Irish stew will be tasting pretty good by midseason.” :D

What is with you and Trajan Langdon? Didn’t we have a huge thread a few months back where you talked about how he would be a great signing for the Celtics and would actually have an impact, and none of us could figure out what you were smoking, and we were basically ready to have you committed because you wouldn’t let it go?

Glad to see you haven’t let it go.

Let’s be real about the KG/JO trade possibilities – the discussion begins with Al and the pick. No way we get either for anything less.

I say get Conley if available. Rondo is useless if he can’t make people defend him from 12 feet out. Look at all the top point guards. They’ve all got a mid range game – Nash, Billups, Deron Williams, Parker. The only exceptions are Baron and Kidd, but they’ve both got a power game that Rondo doesn’t.

According to Yahoo, Portland is looking to trade for another high lottery pick so they can draft Conley Jr. to play with Oden.

I can’t wait to get fleeced by the Trailblazers again. Welcome Zach Randolph and Jarret Jack!

migit,

The Celtics will not trade Al (and certainly not Al and #5), but that doesn’t mean they have no shot at KG or especially JO. I suppose it depends on what other teams are offering. But the C’s should be able to put together something interesting for both players (again, more so fo JO).

I agree with Brick— Conley is MUCH better than Rondo. In fact I wouldn’t mind taking him at 5.

I would pick
1. Conley
2. B Wright
3. Jianlian

in that order based on availability

Zack Randolph is a nutjob. The Celtics might be able to get him on the cheap because no one wants him on their team. I don’t see how they can keep him from poisoning the locker room. Trading for Garnett while giving up Al Jefferson and or the 5th pick is a ticket to having a nice run in the east and getting crushed in the finals for a couple of years followed by another long and painful rebuilding process. Five years from now Al Jefferson is going to be an all-star in his prime putting up 22 and 10 every night and Garnet will be 35 years old and on his last leg. You only make the Garnett trade if you think you can win a title with him. No way do the Celtics have enough to put around Garnett to win a title, if they give up Al Jefferson. So what is the point?

If everyone would quit panicing, either Al Hortford or Yi or Mike Conelly have to be there at five. I don’t know about Yi, but I will bet dollars to doughnuts that Hortford and Conelly are going to be all-stars or near all-stars for years to come and at a positon, PG and Center, that the Celtics desparately need. Heck with Pierce. If he doesn’t like getting another young guy too bad. He shouldn’t have signed his extension. Keep the young guys and draft a solid player at five. In the long run the Celtics won’t regret it.

“Bottom line: this is all on Danny from now on. He canâ€â"¢t afford to tear up the team for a 3rd time. He has to win now.”

If Danny and Wyc actually feel that way, then we are doomed to another ten years of mediocrity.

Slowly, I think Wyc is understanding that you need to get worse in order to get better. We need to go about rebuilding properly, or we never get rebuilt at all… we just stay mediocre…we should have learned this lesson by now.

We should have moved Paul a few years ago and gone about this rebuilding process properly, but we didn’t. Look at Portland.. they’ve been consistently in the lottery for the past few years, and it finally paid off for them. If they got hosed this year, guess where they would be next year – right back in the lotto trying for O.J. Mayo.

Danny can explore trades which bring Garnett, O’Neal or Gasol here, but we’d be selling the house to get the trade done… it likely won’t be worth it. Any of those deals probably start and end with Al Jefferson’s name being mentioned anyway.

Our best long-term bet is to deal Pierce for future lotto picks and the best prospects we can grab from another team.

The focus now should be building around Al Jefferson.. and having patience. The best thing we can do now is make a serious attempt at rebuilding and attack the lotto for O.J. Mayo… that means moving Pierce and playing the kids.

Much as I like Rondo, if we draft Conley, would it still be possible to get Garnett and keep Al, PP, and Conley? Now we are talking Al, Garnett, PP and Conley in the lineup. You add anything to that foursome and we are just ridiculous. I mean this is the exact right way to go, but is it possible? Does Mn take Rondo, the contract, West, Wally, next years pick, Gerald? I am not trying to throw out impossible trades. Maybe the core of Rondo, West, and Gerald for KG the contract and a pick is enough.

at this point i dont like any of our trading ideas save for gasol. barring that move i just assume stay the course and just draft someone. my favorites are yi and brewer right now. im not attached to rondo though i like him a lot. id be interested in the deal brick proposed with us getting camby. short of that ill go for either of the other 2.

Jeff said:
  

    We can’t ask for much more from him.

I ask him for a winning team. If he can’t produce that, he should be fired. Period.

Put that way I might agree. I think Danny would agree. But then who do you get that would do a better job? Also, these aren’t the days when you can turn a team around in 2 or 3 years like Red used to do. I think Danny’s moving in the right direction and I don’t know of anyone who could do it better. I also think you need to discount last year.

mcpu40,

It depends on what you think of Rondo as a PG. If you think he is the real deal and solves the problem, then the Celtics have to go with a big man. No way could Brewer play PF in the NBA right now. If you draft Brewer, he starts at SF and Pierce goes to SG and Jefferson and Perkins stay down low. If Yi, really is ready to compete and play the high post or if Hortford falls to five a better lineup, assuming you like Rondo is

Yi/Hortford C
Jefferson PF
Pierce SF
Allen or Green SG
Rondo PG

Taking Conley at 5 may be a moot point, with Atlanta at 3 and 11. And Memphis may go for him, with no dominating Center available. I can’t believe Denver would just Oft Camby for salary relief and Rondo. Money is getting more important than talent now. I wish we hadn’t extended PP for $20MM per. You end up competing with yourself for these stars that have no where to go. The owners are too stupid and star struck not to hav e asalary cap.

“Taking Conley at 5 may be a moot point, with Atlanta at 3 and 11.”

You forget you are talking about Atlanta here. By all rights they should take Conley at 3. But you watch, they will take Brenden Wright and gamble on AC Law being there at 11. Billy Williams can’t resist drafting forwards. I think Memphis takes Hortford at four to pair with Gasol. That will leave the Celtics with their choice of Yi, Conley, or Brewer.

Yi won’t start at center for us…I don’t think. He is supposedto be thin, need weight and struggle playing with his back to the basket. Al would be the five if Yi made the starting five, which would surprise me from what I have heard. Now if we bring in Horford or Noah we may be able to put those guys at the five. I really like the energy both of those guys bring on the defensive side ofthe ball. I keep thinking we will end up with Noah, but my hope is that we can trade down to get him. Perhaps make a pick for someone else, unload Telfailure, and pick up somebody else. I am dreaming of Mike Bibby and Noah. Sacto trades up to grab Conley and takes Theo or Wally off our hands.

Portland wants back into the top ten so they will try to deal with us again (esp after last year).

Conley is alot better. Not just a little better, much better.

Uh . . .no. Conley can definitley shoot the ball better, but in terms of speed, athletic ability, defensively, open court vision, no, he isn’t. I would disagree.

Paul Pierce lives in Vegas. This does not mean Wyc was lying when he said Pierce was working out in Boston. He might be for all anyone here on this board knows. Last time we checked no one here had Paul’s cell.

Keep Pierce. I like this Celtics team when it’s healthy. Trade the pick and one or two youngins for solid, talented veteran, spend some cash on a FA.
If not trading the pick, get the best possible player regardless of position and let him develop with the rest of the Al, Perkins, Rondo, Green core. If TA is able to recover then so much the better.

Wow that is good idea. I love Mike Bibby. If the Celtics could trade down and somehow get Bibby, they could also get Hawes or Thronton if Noah is not there. Either one of those guys would help a lot. Look at it this way, any rookie big man will if nothing else take Scal’s minutes. If that doesn’t help the team nothing will.

Smiggity,

I hope that you are right. But, I can’t fathom Minny or Indy giving up all-star power forwards of their caliber for an unproven small forward and a #5 pick that will yield them nothing close to the player their giving up. It just makes no sense for those other teams to leave themselves gaping holes in their starting lineup like that. Also remember, we’re the ones over the barrel here. They have what we want. There’s nothing forcing either team to trade their stars.

Now that Seattle has a high draft pick anyone think a deal for Ray Allen might be worked for Gerald or West or Gomes, Theo, and the #5, or any combination thereof?
Rondo
Allen
Pierce
Al
Perk

?

Eyore,

You are right. Hortford is a 4. But him and Al would be a fiersome combination down low. Al did really well as a five last year. Jefferson, Hortford and Perkins would be a very nice low post rotation for a very long time.

“Ray Allen is getting old.”

Has barely lost a step, is a Pro’s Pro in terms of attitude, would be a great mentor to GG, is a true/legit deep threat, and great cap relief for signing youngins when his contract expires.

Conley is quicker, more athletic, has better handles, better court vision, shoots better and passes better than Rondo. Rondo is better defensively, but not by much. Conley plays under control at all times. Rondo plays out of control far too often.

But hey, this is the francise that selected Joseph Forte over Tony Parker and Gilbert Arenas. So what’s one more mistake? After all, we can always blame the ping pong balls, the “curse” or anything other than our own stupidity for the team’s failures.

“But hey, this is the francise that selected Joseph Forte over Tony Parker and Gilbert Arenas. So what’s one more mistake? After all, we can always blame the ping pong balls, the "curse” or anything other than our own stupidity for the team’s failures."

Brick you only get to talk trash about that is you actually thought that Parker and Arenas were going to be stars at the time. No one had seen Parker play and at the time I was angry that the Celtics didn’t take Jamaal Tinsley. A lot I know. Also, it was Red who fell in love with Forte, so everyone is capable of making a mistake now and then. For the record, no way, given his draft history, would Ainge have missed three times on Parker and Arenas.

There is no way Conley is getting by Atlanta. Their biggist need is point guard so there is almost no chance he falls to us. Besides our biggest need now is defense or another big to play with Jefferson. If we can’t get a big in a trade then we should take Al Horford. He is the most ready and would be great with Jefferson playing the 5. John CK is dead on earlier.

cheer up cheer up cheer up cheer up cheer up cheer up cheer up cheer up cheer up cheer up cheer up ;D :D :) :D 8) :) :D

"There is no way Conley is getting by Atlanta. "

Never underestimate the ability of Billy Williams to mess up a pick. I bet he takes Wright or takes a flyer on Yi. You watch.

Red didn’t fall in love with Forte. He did it as a favor to his old friend Morgan Wooten, Forte’s HS coach at De Matha. Only Wooten forget to tell Red that Forte was a punk, so much so that at one point Keith Bogans punched out Forte in the De Matha locker room.

And everyone had seen Parker. The Celtics worked him out privately at least twice before the 2001 draft.

It was stupid, stupid, stupid. There is NO EXCUSE for those kinds of decisions.

“Team owners donâ€â"¢t get into this for the money. They are mostly just really big fans with a huge bankroll and a large need to play with their favorite toy.”

I want some evidence that this is true, especially evidence that refutes the fact that professional sports teams far outperform the market in terms of profit margin and as an investment vehicle. And Wyc won’t pay the Luxury Tax at all, so I’d certainly question “how bad” he wants to win now. Sure, he wants to win, and he is a fan and an owner, and winning is fun and he’d make more $$, but does he want to win as much as Mark Cuban? No. More than Robert Johnson? Probably. I think there is a spectrum here, and I am still concerned that Wyc is a short term owner who will turn a $50 million profit and we’ll be in the same position we were in before. Anybody think we should go back to the days when the Celtics were publically traded? Then maybe we could pool our cash and…:) We can dream

Paker went what in the mid 20s? The Celtics were not exactly alone in passing on him. The real sin is that they were desparate for a PG, had three picks and didn’t take a chance on Parker. Instead they took a chance on Brown.

First, I actually don’t think most serious fans anticipated giving Danny and ownwership a pass this year. I believe the majority of fans began the year with high hopes. Yes, two key injuries to arguably our two best players at the time of injury, Allen and Pierce, seriously derailed playoff hopes but a free pass I think not. This past season was simply a major disappointment. As for Pierce, he has just signed an extension and now has come up with the most serious injury of his career. He also has played a lot of minutes through the years. His situation is similar to Iverson’s. He’s on a team going nowhere fast and he should demand a trade. However, I’m not sure what we can get for him now. I have to believe that if the right deal came up, Danny would trade Pierce in a heartbeat and both parties would be happy. Did I mention that Doc should not be coaching anymore?

Hibbert going back to school hurts a lot. I was high on him at 5. He’s going back to school so he’ll be the number 1 next year in the draft.

Forte was Red’s pick, not Danny’s. Somehow I don’t think you have the right to criticize Red or claim that at the time you knew any better.

As to the rest

I don’t see Conely as anything other than a better shooter and “more under control” as you put it. He’s certainly not quicker or faster North to South, or laterally (in terms of defensive foot speed), and his ball handeling skills do not appear in any way sharper than Rondo’s.
Rondo does have a propensity to make boneheaded “out of control” (as you say) plays, but in terms of overall talent I would chose Rondo over Conely (or any PG taken in Rondo’s draft class) especially when considering what they would look like as polished over all players with 4-5yrs of NBA experience under their belt.

I most certainly have the right to criticize Red when he did something stupid.

It is true the Celtics wanted Parker (I think there was something about Chris Wallace being the one who was high on Parker and threw something of a fit over Forte being chosen), and it’s also widely spread that Red is the one who insisted on Forte. Was it a favor? Was it Red honestly being sold on Forte? Who knows . . . either way consider Parker went so low in the draft it’s difficult to accuse the Celts of being alone in misjudging the impact of T Parker.

Sure, heâ€â"¢s been the good soldier. The guy who seems to â€Å"get” what being a Celtic is about. Heâ€â"¢s the ownerâ€â"¢s favorite, the fan favorite, and the only guy left that has sniffed any kind of playoff success. He’s the face of the franchise. But those reasons are much more important to you or I than they are to Wyc and Danny.

I remember a player wearing a #8 jersey who truly knew exactly what being a Celtic meant….and he was traded away for garbage just ‘cause our “esteemed” GM didn’t like him.

Nice. :-\

They were not alone in misjudging the impact of Parker, but they were certainly alone in misjudging the impact of Forte.

Brick, those decisions may well have been stupid and I know we still have Wallace on the payroll but you can’t put blame on Ainge or even these owners when those calls were made under a different regime. The one thing I do have faith in Ainge is his ability to draft. I’m leaning more to just taking the pick as opposed to a trade. It’s entirely possible that Danny won’t have a choice as it takes two to tango.

Regarding Conley Jr: I believe that Danny said that Rondo is better than any point guard in this draft. Is that what he believes or a smoke screen for Atlanta.

I seem to remember him saying the same thing about Telfair last year:(

Mabe he said that about Tefair last year, but 30 minutes later he traded for the pick used to select Rondo. It must have been buyer’s remorse.

I like that scenario of taking Conley (if he’s there at 5) and trading rondo,green,gomes,failure and THEO’s for KG.

Conley, Pierce, KG, AL = WOW!

Brick,

I think Danny made the Telfair deal because Raf’s contract had gotten so embarassing. He was desparate to move it and basically gave away the number 6 pick to get rid of it. Telfair was just the veneer to sell something, anything, to the fans.

I understand why he did the Telfair deal.

The bottom line is that the C’s are skee-rewed: Bad coach, fading franchise player, bad drafting decisions (Banks, trading #7 for Telfair), a series of band-aid moves that have not improved the product on the floor and dwindling fan support.

They are going to make a big splash in the offseason with some veteran acquisition and in a year they’ll be drowning in the puddle with 37 wins and a huge luxury tax bill.

I wouldn’t mind have another point guard especially like Conley but I think we have to draft and trade for a couple of PF’s or Centers. If Perk is hurt again and Jefferson gets in foul trouble or sprains his ankle again there is no one else that can defend in the middle.

Either Trade For Kg our Trade Pierce and drat Brewer and a big man.

“If Perk is hurt again and Jefferson gets in foul trouble or sprains his ankle again there is no one else that can defend in the middle.”

The Celtics middle hasn’t come close to being defended for several years.

And Brick, I respect your opinion and enjoy your posts as much as anyone’s on this board, but I don’t really see the intense love affair with Conley. He seems alot like T.J. Ford to me. Very quick, makes good decisions, average defender, very average jumper (at best), good handle, and good court vision. He also played on an outstanding team, and with the nation’s best big man since he was probably 14. He may turn out to be Steve Nash in a few years, but I don’t see him being the “can’t miss” PG like Chris Paul was a couple of years ago.

Trade Pierce, even if you get high salary garbage to sit between Theo and Wally on the bench- provided you also get true young talent and/or a few future high lottery picks. Imagine if Chicago had hit the mother lode again this year with the lottery! The time is a wasting. Let’s not try to put a band-aid on this to get vet help for a few 40 win seasons.

The goal is to win a championship, so give me a bitter pill as long as there is true direction and development to that goal. Rebuilding around Al, the #5 pick, and trade value for Pierce is the only logical way to go IMO.

I don’t have unblinded faith in Danny’s drafting. Not after all those pre-draft summer workouts and walking away with Telfair. And it wasn’t Monday morning QB ing either, I was posting that the minute I heard it.

Trading the #5 is not the right move, though Danny may do it.

The big crapshoot is whether he is willing to take Yi with the #5. He may either be a Dirk like player or a foreign bust, but I would take him over Horford for the potential, also he opens up the middle for Big Al, where as Perk and Horford will clog it up. I assume Conley is off the board, probably B Wright too.

Well, right now Conley is as good as TJ Ford. He’s better than either Paul or D. Williams when they were college freshmen, and who knows what ceiling he might have?

Everyone raves about the fact that Oden hasn’t lost a home game since he was 14. Well, neither has Conley.

If you draft Conley you immediately turn Rondo into a trading chip to get frontcourt help. You could trade Rondo and Ratliff to Denver for Camby. Alternatively you could trade Conley’s draft rights and another rpospect to to Portland for LaMarcus Aldridge.

Five years from now, we will look back at where the Celts are and the opinion is going to be, why didn’t we trade Pierce when he had value? We did the same with the Chief, hung on too long, got absolutely nothing for him when he still had value.

Trading a potential unhappy veteran on the decline several years from now will get you far less than what you can now. We don’t have the tools to put with Pierce to get a crown. I knew this several years ago and said pull the trigger.

Right now I still think you can get a young starter from a mediocre team, a lottery pick this year, junk filler salary, and a future 1st round likely lottery pick for Pierce. The time may have slipped away and this may no longer be available. You won’t get that type of offer after this year.

Well I agree bceltfan, as much as I love to watch Pierce slash to the rim. Pierce is a 30 year-old luxury that this franchise cannot afford right now.

And next February we’ll revisit the topic of Mike Conley, Jr. when he’s tearing it up for some other team and has proved that he’s head and shoulders above every player in this draft not named Oden or Durant. At that point the Celtics will be a few games under .500 and just about ready to head out on their killer West coast swing, where they no longer will have any hope of beating anyone.

But hey, Pierce will be averaging 25 ppg and everyone will be saying, “Where would we be without him?”

I can see the Danny/Doc spin now:

Celtics win 14 more games than previous season!
Celtics make playoffs! (7 or 8th seed)
Celtics going in the right direction!

The problem with that is, it is going to come at the expense of keeping Pierce and maybe trading for vet help. In reality though, a 38 W season and a losing record, without the building blocks in place to rebuild is not the way to go.

As the “Who” sang, “we won’t get fooled again”.

I think this is a realistic trade:

T-Wolves get: Gerald Green, Ratliff, #5 pick, 2008 #1, Telfair

Celtics get: Garnett

So, how about this lineup:

5 – Jefferson
4 – Garnett
3 – Pierce
2 – T. Allen
1 – Rondo

With 3 elite rotation guys – D. West, Wally, Gomes

That’s a deep 8 man rotation with the 3 Stars needed to compete for the Eastern Conference Finals this year! And Minny rebuilds with Green, Telfair and 2 lottery picks (ours and theirs) around Randy Foye. C’mon Danny and Kevin, make this happen!!!

I think you have to trade Pierce right now if you can get anything for him. That is a big if. The question is what contender would want him and what could you get for him. I have no doubt Ainge would trade Pierce in a heartbeat for the right deal, but what deal? Pierce for Marion might not be too bad. But Marion is only a year younger than Pierce and what does Pheonix have to offer other than him? What other contender needs a player like Pierce? Miami? Chicago? All of you people who say trade Pierce, great, now tell me to whom for what?

Rondo and Ratliff for Camby is highway robbery. I like that trade to, but I can’t see any reason Denver would do it unless they really really like rondo. Even is Connly is not there at 5, Corey Brewer will be. Getting Brewer and Camby would improve the defense immensly and make the Celtics a much better team.

   I think you could get Odom or Kirilenko for Pierce. He’s a dynamic scorer, and could probably help both those teams. I’m not sure Odom is what we need, but he rebounds like crazy. Kirilenko would be a pretty good fit playing the 4, giving us lattitude to draft at #5, and he’s probably way overpaid also, being a max guy. If Lakers re-sign Mihm, they could trade Bynum and Kwame Brown for Gasol. Memphis might do that with Brown at the end of a 9 MM contract.

Kirilinko is a 10 5 guy who makes a fortune. Am I missing something?

I hate to burst everyones bubble in here, but it’s going to take us another 3-4 years before you see a championship team.

As constituted this team needs help (talent) and other than Jefferson and Pierce, there really isn’t someone to step up to the forefront.

We need to be in the same position next year and the year after that hoping to land a number 1 or 2 pick and drafting talent. At the same time Ratliff’s contract will be coming off the books and Szczerbiak will coming off will be in 2 years.

By then it will free up cap space and allow them to go after a top flight free agent.

As much as I’m a cool aid drinker about the team, the realist in me knows it will take another 3-4 years to become a Championship team.

What I don’t want is our team to become the Washington Bullets or the Milwakee Bucks of years past; having a good team to make the playoffs but not enough talent to have a championship team

The Camby deal would be great, except for the fact that he’s 33 and more than likely will get even more injury prone (if that’s possible) over the last 3 years of his contract.

I agree with the “Trade Pierce” group. Don’t bring anybody in over 26 or 27. We need a potential All-Star PG, a shot-blocking rebounder at center, and quality 3-point shooters. Basically, we have a legitimate low-post PF and a bunch of bench guys. We could trade Pierce for anything else.

I like your ideas though…move Rondo & Ratliff for Camby.

Ok, wait . . I mention Ray Allen above and you’re complaint was “He’s too old.” Camby is OLDER than Allen and has an injury history that is longer than Allen and Ratliff’s together! lol

Now, I’m not opposed to bringing in Camby, I think he would indeed help tremendously on the defensive end and with rebounding (as would Ratliff were he healthy). Giving up Ratliff’s contract AND Gerald or the #5 is w-a-y too much for him.

Dont have the time to read the other posts,so if its redudant sorry. But this is the perfect time to trade for gasol. With Memphis not getting a top two pick either, and their wanting to sell the team, they may be looking to cut salary.

give them Theo, Telfair (another expiring), #5, a future second, and gomes. If thats not enough, give them whatever they want except AJ, PP, RR and a future first.

Gasol is true 7 foot center and he can and likes to shot the mid range shot giving AJ enough room down low to work. Outside of getting Garnett, this is the best way to salvage this sucky draft and still have real good progress next year.

Both would look nice in Celtics green, for two seasons…maybe.
After that, they’d be hobbled by age setting in.

I agree, those two, while nice, would only be short term solutions, and only something you look at if you’re convinced that we can’t win more than 40 games with what we have now (I believe we can, assuming everyone is healthy).

Long term, I think the Celtics are in a great position. 3-5 years will see the total development and maturation of Jefferson, Perkins, Rondo, West, Gomes, and Green (most importantly). If Boston keeps the pick and drafts Brewer or Green (or even Wright from Kansas) as a potential heir to PP’s 3 spot, they have a very strong looking team. That is a solid team that you can add another big body (or two) on the bench, and another strong defender (if TA recovers we’re set) and you have a team that can be deep in the playoffs and contending. 3-5 years many of the Eastern powerhouses (with the exception of Chicago) will be far in decline, and our talent level will be comparable to that of the younger Western teams that will be maturing about the same time. My opinion of course, but I am no basketball expert like Brick.

I really like Ray Allen (huge UConn fan), but I really can’t imagine Seattle trading him now that they got the #2 pick… not yet at least…

Camby would fill gaps in the middle…

Trading for KG with the package mentioned above (probably plus cash to offset Telfair’s contract, up to $3mm is allowed) would be very smart… and it would make the Celtics relevant and give us a chance to go to the eastern conference finals in Rondo can run the pick-and-roll / pick-and-pop and is at least decent on 18-footers.

We have too many non-starter assets and need to consolidate to people would are true nba starters and ideally all-star or near all-star caliber.

Re: Conley Jr: he is the real deal and whomever gets him will have a superstar… he is faster than Rondo, hands down. I think Chris Paul was a better player as a freshman, but not by too much.

Get Gasol. Done and done

The thing about Camby is:
1. He makes 50% of what Ray Allen makes.
2. He has only two years left on his contract.
3. He was the NBA defensive player of the year.

Am I missing something?

Sure, he’s 33. Maybe you pick up another young big man in next year’s draft, or maybe you turn Camby into another asset via a sign and trade, or maybe you keep grooming Perkins.

But isn’t Camby he the kind of high quality veteran defensive presence that we all agree this team needs? And he (or Nene) WILL be traded. Denver has huge luxury tax exposure for the next two years. And they have no point guard, because Steve Blake is an unrestricted free agent.

If we don’t trade Pierce, we’ll end up trading away our future talent for some over paid, gimpy veteran with bad knees. 8)

The more I think about Yi, the more I ask, “Do we need another 7-footer who shoots 3s?”

Camby has 3 years left, counting next year, at 8 million a year.

BTW, I would trade Pierce for Kirilenko, who does so many other things besides score. Certainly Pierce is a better player, but Kirilenko is taller and 3 years younger. Utah should be willing to sweeten that deal a little.
I wouldn’t mind Kirilenko and Derek Fisher for Pierce and Scalabrine.

So Brick, do we trade Pierce because he’s 30 and then trade for Camby? Or keep Pierce and trade for Camby? He has 3 years left on his contract, albeit at a reasonable salary. But there’s not been a more injury-prone player in the NBA over the last 11 years than Camby. He’s missed an average of 26 games/year, and at his age, it’s likely to get worse instead of better.

WWBJD said:
“So Brick, do we trade Pierce because he’s 30 and then trade for Camby?”

Yes, we do.

1. Camby provides interior defense and rebounding. He’s a center, which is inherently more valuablble than a wing player.
2. Camby makes 50% of what Pierce makes.
3. Camby’s deal is two years shorter.

You aren’t building the tream around Camby or Pierce. You are building the team around Jefferson.

Camby
Jefferson
Kirilenko
Allen/Szczerbiak
Conley/West

That’s a much better team than
Perkins
Jefferson
Yi Jing-a-ling
Pierce
Rondo

It’s not even close.

I really dont want to see them move the pick. It is still the highest pick weve had in a long time.

JohnCK’s points about the team are right. We should wait and see what we have. It will definitely be a lot better than last year.

But there is this little part of me for some reason that just wants to see us move Pierce. Not because I dont like him. He’s my favorite Celtic. But because I think that continuing to build the team around a 30 year old who is showing signs of breaking down. May actually set us back more than it helps. If the objective is to win a championship for Pierce and for us. He should go. But Jeff is right. It aint gonna happen.

I’d make those trades, assuming you could get Denver and Utah to go along. You’d also have to look at upgrading your scoring at the 2. For Jefferson to be effective in the post, Conley would have to develop an NBA 3, and Allen would have to be replaced with an effective shooter.

I agree with you Brick (an unprecedented twice now) that Camby would be a good fit and would be a different look than Perk. The two of them at Center is a great Combo and gives this team two very solid different looks at the 5. What I would NOT do, and what I don’t agree on, are the terms of your deal. I think Green, Theo’s contract, and #5 are w-a-y too much for Camby and filler.

Theo’s contract alone is worth the salary cap relief. Someone else from Denver would have to come because of the salary match situation.

If I thought we had anything resembling a chance at Gasol or KG I’d be spouting rumors, but I don’t see either one of them coming to Boston.

tmcdon said:
  
"What I would NOT do, and what I don’t agree on, are the terms of your deal. I think Green, Theo’s contract, and #5 are w-a-y too much for Camby and filler.’

I didn’t offer that. I offered Theo and Rondo. Period. I migh throw in Alan Ray if they twisted my arm. I would be willing to take back Reggie Evans, another solid but unspectacular veteran defensive player. That saves Denver another 8 million, at least.

Denver needs a cheap pg who can defend and luxury tax relief. There is no reason the Celtics should (or need to) overpay for Camby.

I’m using pick #5 on Mike Conley, Jr. I’m not trading it unless Conley is taken by Atlanta or Memphis.
 

Regarding an earlier post about Yi, if we need another 7’ guy shooting 3s? I’m not saying he’s another Dirk, but he has many of the same skill sets as Dirk does right now. Whether he can do what he does now in the NBA for years to come is the zillion dollar question.

Comparing him to Raef and the point in Raef’s career when we got him is apples and oranges. Raef never had the fluid game that Dirk and Yi have. Yi is a solid shooter and considering Rhondo, West, Allen, Gomes, Perk, even Green can’t hit the outside jumper game in and game out, Yi would fit in with this offense and open it up for Big Al down low.

He’s a risky pick and I think he either is going to turn heads in several years or be a disappointment.

Dirk and Dallas should have been champions last year, he did lead Dallas to the best record this year, and although Nash got my vote, he was MVP of the league.

I roll the dice with him at #5 rather than taking Holford, Brewer, KU’s Wright, or trading it.

If it blows up in my face, I’ll stand there and take it like a man. But if he is lighting up the NBA in 3 or 4 years, I’ll be given you the “I told you so too”.

…….still…..so…..depressed…………… :-\ :-\ :-\

I honestly don’t care what we do as long as Al stays on the team.

now is the optimal time to trade pierce, there are no unbroken hearts left to break. and peirce’s value will only drop. Danny’s job can only be saved if the team wins big now, otherwise hes done, as for doc, well hes already a lame duc coach, they need to get what they can now, before its too late, 4 off-seasons from now, Oden board out of his skull in portland will be a free agint, time to get rid of all but the rookie contracts, and perks value contract.

I’m also for rolling the dice and taking Yi if he’s available. The idea of Yi slicing in and out, catching passes, and throwings darts to Jefferson has me captivated.
Also, I watched Conley play a half dozen games this year, and never felt I was watching a future NBA All-Star. So I’ll stick with Rondo, and keep Jefferson at the 5. And if Denver would give us Kirilenko and Fisher for Pierce and Scalabrine, then by all means, do it.

Pierce won’t be traded, though. I get a definite sense that he’s Wyc Grousbeck’s favorite player, and that even if Ainge wanted to trade him for the good of the franchise, ownership would not allow it.

That’s one reason why, in the long run, I see someone like Steve Belkin as the savior of this franchise, not Kevin Garnett or Jermaine O’Neal.

In the first post of the day I spoke of “panic”..Reading these posts I fail to understand that logic is the first priority, expediency seems to hold first place with so many questionable suggesttions.

Get rid of Paul Pierce because he’s going to be 30 but trade for players 33-35 years old? Camby is a walking time-bomb and will prove to be the second-coming of Ratliff. I was shocked that he played as often as he did this past year. But one season does not a career make! Take the long look and check his career.

Who says that Conley will be an All Star but Rondo won’t? O.K., Brick I think you mentioned it once or twice. All that Rondo lacks is a shot and already bloggers are giving up on him improving in that area. The most “telling” statistic about Rondo having the ability to become a better shooter is the 23-25 foul shots he made at the end of the season. Not in practice, but in game-time with all the pressure he performed. I bet Conley NEVER had a game-time run like that.

As for decision-making Conley versus Rondo? Nice smokescreen Brick but slight of hand (er, speech) isn’t your forte. Conley played against college competition and Rondo performed in the NBA! If Conley does nearly as well his first year in the NBA I’ll be truly surprised. Besides, Rondo’s supporting cast was a bunch of “bench” players or his stats would have been much better. With Rondo on board you absolutely don’t waste the 5th pick.

Another common mistake advanced is to draft for size without regard to talent. Don’t draft for NEED but do draft for talent!

Rondo HAD poor shooting mechanics but the potential for improvement is there!

Brick, I think you’re right on Pierce staying a Celtic.

I have been looking at quite a few mock drafts and it has surprised me that about 1/2 of them have Portland taking Durant over Oden. I still think Oden is the choice they should and will eventually make. I’m just surprised to see how many have Durant as the #1.

Trying to add a player who “fits” is useless since we can’t add any one player that will make us a championship team this year. SO…we simply add TALENT at whatever position and wait until other offers become available. Before Rasheed Wallace landed in Detroit’s lap in a mid-season, fluke of a five-way trade they were a guard heavy team with no chance to win a championship. The example of Detroit is also why I wouldn’t give up Pierce just yet. Doing so would ensure that you’re starting a 7 year process all over again. Keeping him, and drafting the best talent at #5, gives you a chance at some mid-season deals that may make us a contender faster than we expect. The big, huge caveat would be the continued development of Jefferson, Green, and Rondo. Although, I’m of the opinion that you don’t fix a shot as bad as Rondo’s in one off-season. So, I’m all for Conley if he’s available. If he’s not, then Yi.

Moskqq, I have to differ on draft for talent and not for need. I think we do draft for need. Look at the Wally trade. Wally’s is no SG yet that’s what he played because we traded Ricky/Blount for talent when really he, Pierce and Green are all natural SF. We desperately needed big man help and didn’t get it.

I am souring a bit on Brandan Wright although he will be a good NBA player because he has an NBA game like Big Al’s. That is why again I shy away from Horford. I think Noah is a bad fit. I also shy away from Brewer because we have Allen, West, Green, Wally, Peirce, too. Brewer will be a good pro, but we don’t need another SG/SF type player.

Our problem the last several years has been also due to having too many “tweeners” and players playing similar positions.

Mock draft site after site has their own “favorite”. Some say Yi has the most potential, some say it is KU’s Wright, etc. Nobody knows for sure. After the top 2, it is a large bit of a crapshoot.

I think the best player in this draft after the Oden/Durant as far as Celtic team need, potential, etc is Yi. Now maybe we lay a golden egg with him, but at least several sites saying he should be better than Yao. There were times this year (granted without Pierce) this team couldn’t shoot the ball into the Boston Harbor. If Danny wants to pick up the tempo, play Sun basketball East, have a dependable outside shooter to open up for Al in the halfcourt, he takes Yi and moves Pierce.I’m for gambling with the kid.

It’s like going up to the roulette table and laying it all on red, but I think Celts need to take the risk and I think he will be available at the #5.

• Don’t trade Pierce.
• Take, in order: Conley (Rondo or no Rondo), Brandan Wright, or Jeff Green in that order.
• We’re skee-rewed regardless, but that’s what will help us inch closer to (woo-hoo) .500.

I guess I need to add that Conley just doesn’t turn the ball over. His assist to turover ratio was an eye-popping 3:1. Aside from the fact that he can’t shoot, Rondo tosses away far more possessions than Conley.

I don’t care what Ainge says. Conley is better, and everyone knows it. Who does Ainge think he’s kidding?

“Dirk ball” for lack of a better term is “winning” basketball. Dallas has proved that. Yi plays Dirk ball. I’m not saying he is Dirk or will become Dirk; I’m saying if the Celts want to improve, getting Yi and moving the likes of Pierce and Wally are the steps the Celtics need to get us out of this funk.

Take Yi, and play Dirk ball is my advice.

Whatever Conley offers, unless the Celtic’s are choosing for a trade partner, Conley has Zero chance of being selected by the Celtics with their 5th pick. The more likely scenario, with Yi gone, is for them to trade down for some combination of multiple picks and or a mix of picks plus a key veteran role player in exchange for the 5th pick.

The fact that MOST draft boards have Conley projected at 10-12 suggests that their opinion is not Brick’s et al opinion as to NBA potential. He may go higher in the draft due to team needs (as the highest rated PG) but not on the basis of raw talent. Atlanta may well trade down if they especially like Conley or Portland may trade assets to acquire Conley if they choose Oden etc. but those are particular circumstances.

Acie Law is a better shooter than Conley but lacks his raw athleticism and his abilty to penetrate the paint. Conley also has better handles and more court awareness but I doubt if Conley has better leadership skills.

Conley had all the leadership skills he needed at Ohio State, and his name was Greg Oden.

I’ll tell you guys, the model we need to follow is Dallas. The nucleus of that team is Dirk, Josh Howard, and Jason Terry. They have a good roster of subs too.

We still have Big Al for the half court. If you have a healthy Allen, Rondo, turn loose Gerald Green in the open court, a guy like Yi who is 7’ and runs like a shooting guard, West, etc; you start seeing the signs of this team going forward. Perk did well with the outlet pass. Gomes is athletic too.

We still need to turn it way up on the defensive end, but at least we have scorers with Yi and Big Al, and fast break opportunities for cherry picking baskets. It would be exciting basketball and a better game for C fans to watch.

Big Celtic problem last year, when we went cold offensively, we couldn’t shut teams down defensively. This way we can run and gun and still turn to Al in the post.

Pierce and Wally must go though or we are back to walking it up the court.

As the line gets drawn between strong but different opinions, it’s fun to go back a month or so and see the scathing remarks about Yi’s NBA potential and contrast his rising popularity with the fall of Noah, Brandon, and even (to a small extent) Brewer. I expect this jockying for position will continue right up to draft day with “lukewarm” players suddenly becoming “can’t miss” All Stars. Danny aluded to this when asked about the value of player work-outs.

Danny said that work-outs don’t replace past performance in importance but one gets a better idea of a player’s athleticism, size and intangibles by comparing his performance to that of similar players.

I don’t care what the draft gurus say. Conley is the 3rd best player in this draft.

He’s a little small though, Brick. He’s only 6-0, 170 lbs.

Brick: How big was Tiny Archibald?

I know, but I’m not sure he’s a difference maker. I can live with a Rondo/West tandem, along with the other moves you suggest. But I agree, Wyc can’t let go of his binky; Danny will leave over ‘philosophical differences.’

Brick, you’re not serious are you? You think Ainge EVER says anything he means, particularly during pre-draft season?
And I agree, Conley ranks No. 3 on my board, too. I admit to preferring Brandan Wright, who I do believe would be a great sixth man with potential to start next season. But you don’t pass up on quality point guard this time around.
I was going to write up a Cheap Seats article on my belief that if ever there were an organization that needed to draft out of need, it’s the Celtics, simply because we cannot trust Danny to accumulate talent AND parlay it into a great trade. So heck yeah, draft for need, and we still need a point guard (much as Rondo intrigues the hell outta me), so get a potentially great point guard in Conley.
I just hope Conley can defend, cuz defense is sorely needed on this team, and Rondo seems to bring it.

Conley being compared to Tiny Archibald? Perhaps in size but certainly not in talent. That’s as much of a reach comparison as saying that Oden is like Bill Russell.

Actually Conley reminds me of the young Isiah Thomas.

Conley, B. Wright, and Yi are the 3 I like at the #5. I think one, probably two of these will be off the board when we pick at #5. I would not be upset with Danny at all for taking any one of these threee guys.

I think B. Wright is the superior choice over guys like Horford and Noah. I also think Horford and Noah will not develop the offensive games deserving of a top 5 pick and are destined for role players. Right now B Wright is the safest choice although his game is very close to Big Als right now. B Wright solidifies the front line with Perk and Al.

As stated before, we have too many SF,SG to add Brewer even though he is a great defender. Same reason for not taking KU’s Wright.

With Conley, you are hands down getting the best point with the most upside on that spot.

With Yi, you are taking big risk but I think he may be the 3rd best player from this draft class (after Oden/Durant) if he comes close to the potential and because of his height and athleticism. This pick may not be for the faint of heart. I don’t think a big shooter like Splitter has the upside.

We need a “breakout” player and these guys are the best of the rest for what’s there and what we need.

Any other move Danny makes, trading the pick or taking any but one of these 3, I consider to be a “sideward draft”.

Open request to Paul Pierce, a player I admire and respect.

Paul, don’t prolong the agony. Go and make the demand for the trade now. Do it for your own and the Celtic’s future. In the long run it is the right move for all.

Although very weird to see you in a non-Celtic uniform, sometimes the doctors need to amputate to save the patient, regardless what the paitent thinks is best.

I have one last request. This past year was dedicating to Red, etc. I’m tired of looking back at the past, google-eyed over all the banners, Hall of Famers, etc. I don’t want to go back to those memories until we have a team worthy enough to play quality ball and go super deep in the playoffs.

Now to my request. I have every confidence that no matter what happens between now and next season at this time, Doc, Danny and company will have us back in the lottery.

In the tradition of starting anew we’re not dwelling on past glory, I don’t want Jo Jo White with no underwear being our lottery representative. And I don’t want another old fossil like Tommy Heinson either. I want the best dang Celtic cheerleader we have in a very tantalizing outfit representing us all. Put that in your pipe lottery gods and smoke it- can’t hurt.

Missing out on Oden and Durant has certainly dealt a significant blow to the Celtics team. However, I don’t think it is the end of the world. Our current situation can be compared to 10 years ago. Missing out on Duncan was certainly bad but the biggest problems were the lack of patience and poor drafting of the last administration. Pitino certainly didn’t do his homework when he drafted Ron Mercer while McGrady was still available. What on earth were they thinking about when they drafted Kedrick Brown and Joe Forte. On top of that they traded away the only good player they drafted that year — Joe Johnson. Just imagine what our roster would be like if we simply draft smart and have the patience to develop the players. We would have Billups, McGrady, Tony Parker, Joe Johnson, pierce plus the young players we have now. Not exactly a bad team. I am not saying Danny is perfect. There is no perfect GM out there. However, drating smart and patience are the two most important qualities that differentiate the present administration with the last one. Also, unlike that Gaston guy the present owners, IMO, really want to see this team improve.

Trading Pierce made more sense at any time in the last two years than it does now. Jefferson is finally coming into his own, Rondo will make a nice jump forward this year, and Perkins is getting better (although I don’t see him as some kind of Superman the way some do here). They need a vet to keep those guys together. And as long as Pierce is ready, willing, and able to lead the team, they are unlikely to get more for him than he’s worth. Also, the #5 pick could net a “ready now” player like Brewer or be used as a trade chip to get another legit starter. If not for the injuries and the tanking, we would have been right in Jersey’s range this year. Nothing great, I admit, but when you can add a top five pick or acquire a veteran, why blow up the team? We just need a new coach.

After watching Lebron become Mr Too much Too Soon , theres no guarantee anyone becomes great based on hype alone.

Brick said…“Actually Conley reminds me of the young Isiah Thomas”…It’s common for prospects to be compared to established NBA stars as long as you understand that we’re reaching for the best possible outcome. In similar fashion Al Thornton reminds me of a young Paul Pierce, a warrior who’s considered a “tweener” and is projected at SF/PF.

Conley has yet to show his mettle at the NBA level where comparative athleticism can neutralize similar athleticism and where size is a valuable commodity. He has the grit but his diminutive size maps an uphill battle for future stardom.

In the last analysis, there are 5 or 6 players in the Celtic’s draft pool that present with outstanding credentials and comparative upside. While TALENT is the most valuable consideration, team needs can be considered when comparative upside exists between 5-6 players. In this situation duplication of assets seems less important than roster balance. In other words, there are better choices for the Celtic’s than PG at the 5th spot.

Depending upon who we draft at #5 and whether we can entice Phoenix to trade one of its’ multiple picks plus our own #32, we will be looking at another PG at some point in this draft. While veteran help at PG seems ideal, the asking price could dictate the source of a back-up PG.

Interesting on everyones lineups excludes Wally..

Dont think they were ever planning on using him off the bench ..He didnt like it in Minny and he wont now. Also considering his injuries you think anyone is in a hurry to beat down our door to trade for him? not happening. Theyll hope he stays healthy and perhaps showcase him at the same time , hoping for a mid season trade at best.

Brick – with Ak47 and camby on the starting lineup ? were you hoping we become the first team to average 40 points a game or something.. Perhaps asking yourself What Would The Raptors Do ?

moskqq said:
  
“Conley has yet to show his mettle at the NBA level where comparative athleticism can neutralize similar athleticism and where size is a valuable commodity. He has the grit but his diminutive size maps an uphill battle for future stardom.”

1. So which of the other guys on Ainge’s list have shown their mettle at the NBA level?

2. Conley is the same size as Chris Paul or Rajon Rondo and has a 40" vertical leap. That’s big enough.
 

I don’t think you can showcase Wally. He plays out of position. He can’t stay with other teams SF and we have him guarding other team’s SG, and then we wonder why we are such a crappy defensive team. Wally’s man can break him down on virtually any play, Wally doesn’t have the speed. Traditionally he’s not a good defender anyway. He has durability issues and no team is shortsighted enough to forget that. He fits in more with a set half court offense with the likes of KG.

Our youth is more suited to a quicker tempo but with Wally and Pierce as your 2 and 3, you can’t run.

Teams may take a gamble with a younger player like Green, wanting him in a trade, but I see absolutely no market for Wally. You also have his salary to boot. We got “scammed on this trade” because Danny/Doc were asleep at the switch.

Wally was and will always be a “poor fit”. C management was so intent on moving disgruntled Blount, Banks, and Davis that we should be featured in the news segment, “the fleecing of America (or in this case the Celtics)”.

For me “showcasing Wally” is an oxymoron.