Goin' Fishin'

Straight and to the point. Excellent writing here, Jeff. This was one of the better pieces in a while.

If it’s possible to make a deal this might be the year to do it. But, I don’t think DA will make a deal because public opinion dictates and I don’t think he’s afraid to make a mistake such as those of the past. I would love to see GG make it, but have a deep-down feeling he won’t get it done. I think this year is crucial though. I would not trade the pick. I would trade GG if the pick we get get could give us some of what GG is expected to give us. I wouldn’t trade TA. The only reason to trade him is the question of health. Leon Powe has shown that you can recover from double knee surgery. So has Stoudamire. I would also consider moving Gomes and West if the deal is right and I would move Ray, Powe, Scals, Telfair and Theo in a minute. I would also try to trim the roster to 13 or 14. I don’t think Jermaine O’Neil or KG are realistic salary wise and I really don’t like them as players. They are good players, but not winners. I would look for players with the qualities of Tayshaun Prince, Richard Jefferson. Jeff, your article is a nice breakdown and good way to look at things from our point of view.

Jeff, I’m glad that you mentioned trading roster fodder as a means of getting better rather than suggesting that we trade our 5th choice for some aged star who’s best days are already behind him.

The pool of 5-6 players that we can draw from can have realistic comparisons to the #1 selection in other lean draft years. The upside and skill set is so close among these players that teams drafting 3 and 4 may seek roster balance as its’ goal leaving great choices for us at #5. If Danny thinks that Yi has as much upside as Durant or Oden and teams drafting 3 and 4 have a similar view but different needs, the best player may still fall to us. Similar comparisons can be made for other potential impact players in the pool of talent available.

After analyzing our core talent tough decision need to be made as to how our non-core players complement roster balance. We only hope that some trading partner vaues our youth as much as we do.

If Ainge wants to catch a lunker the only bait that will be taken is Big Al. All the other bait mentioned will either only catch similar small fry or injured fish ready to go belly up anyway.

ReggieR, this team is much better than you suggest. In this discussion we’re talking about teams that want to give away possibly good players either for money reasons or to make complete changeovers. Phoenix has been mentioned, NJ could be one, Indiana, the Knicks may part with a decent player, if they have one, and Atlanta always seems to want to give things away. We have short or non-guaranteed contracts and low salaries to offer. We can take a chance with some of the players we might trade, but for others such as GG, Gomes, West we would need to get better as a team. These guys would need to bring us quality in return and improve the mix of players on the team.

our minds will be full of this trade and that, so at least losing out on 1-2, gives our fanciful minds a chance to overcome the bitter pill we had to swallow.i don’t like oneal.garnet depends on how much we have to give up.if we could get collison on the cheap is ok. kirilenko won’t happen, but i can hope.gasol actually is intriguing. yi is a project on d, noah on o. i still like brewer who forces a trade. conley and horford will be gone before us.

Yi might be the player who could give us much of what GG would eventually give us.

I feel like Nick Nolte in the movie “The Prince of Tides”. I can’t suppress not getting Oden like he suppressed his demon, the Tallenwold (sp?) incident. Plus, I won’t have Barbra Streisands shoulder to cry on. So please indulge me. Man, I’m so glad we won the lottery Tuesday. Can you imagine us with a lineup of Oden, Big Al, PP, DWest, and Rondo, with a great bench. And if Danny can pull off the right trade, wow. Oden, Al, PP … as good a front lline as Robert, Kevin, and Larry. We’re in for a decade long ride, put your seat belts on. Way to go, Tommy! Number 17, here we come!!

halfman/halfoyster, sorry to bring you out of your dream or whatever, but Larry Bird is one of the greatest to ever play the game. He comes along once in a lifetime if we’re lucky. None of the players you mention, as much as I like Al and PP come close or will. I’d include Oden and Durant in this category too.

AL stays…100%…Pierce is our only true chip with or w/o #5…Danny loves picks ,got burned last year and #5 is like 2/3 in most drafts…Danny keeps pick and takes Yi,Brewer or Conley for trade and drops down a few…my guess 4 weeks out-Yi or Brewer

That pic is an obvious fake..

Ainge has never caught the big fish ;)

The heads should have been pasted on the fish given the smell this team has produced.

Jeff, as part of the fan base, let me dissent from your premise that we are ready to deal, especially if that means trading the 5 pick. To attempt to turn us into a pretty good team while Pierce is playing well is a huge mistake. He is not Shaq, or Duncan, or even Kobe. I would rather remain on the relatively young side and grow into a strong team, then work to become a second round play-off team for the next couple of years, only to follow with more re-building. Keep the 5th pick.

I for one hope DA doesn’t trade the pick. This is a very unusual draft given it’s quality depth and the two projected franchise players. In a "typical " draft the number five pick that we have this year could arguably have been the top pick.

It would be foolish to go with the "band aid " approach with no regard to the future of the franchise.

Let’s look at what Danny does well and not well. He drafts well and this is a good draft. He trades very “not well”. For all you speculating wishful thinkers, don’t forget that he could make things worse via a trade. Draft – develop – re-sign. That is our only chance out of the abyss. Who you trade with is also looking to get the better of the deal and Ainge is a choker trade-wise.

No one is going to give away a top player. All of the really good players are going to go for high prices unless they are going Vince Carter, but then you have to be a contender or they won’t come. What would vintage Red do? Do what Don Nelson did at Golden State and take a chance on a player that has a flaw. Don Nelson traded for Baron Davis despite his injury issues and Steven Jackson despite his phychosis issues. The gambles paid off. Red back in the day, traded the rights to the Greg Oden of the day (J.B Carroll) for the rights to a lanky project power forward just coming out of college and an under achieving seven footer with a reputation for being a bad teammate (McHale and Parish). Later he traded an at the time promising young player (Rick Roby, people forget that he wasn’t a bad player when he was in Boston) for a combo gaurd who had been run out of two cities (won of which he had help win their only NBA title) and been called by one coach poison in the locker room (Dennis Johnson). It you look at the real highway robbery deals that Red made, all of them involved players that had flaws and that there were good reasons for parting with. Pheonix and Golden State were not completely insane for making those deals. J.B. Carrol was a big deal coming out of high school and Parish had done nothing with Golden State. Same with Pheonix, Dennis Johnson had more than worn out his welcome there and pretty much everywhere in the league and Rick Roby was about as good as they going to get for him.

The point is that Boston is not going to trade for the perfect player with a perfect past making MLE who is a gaurenteed all-star from day 1. Ainge is going to have to find one or two really good players who for whatever reason, injuies, personality conflicts etc.. have fallen out with their teams but can recover if given a second chance. If he can do that, he has a shot to put together a really good team around Pierce and Jefferson. Of course when he makes a trade like that, the fans at least when it is made are going to have a fit. Why are we taking that bum? He couldn’t cut it in city X, why could he cut it here? That is guy is another Theo, he is injured all the time? And so forth.

Danny has got to find away to find damaged goods and fix them.

If you’re unaware of what a classy place CelticsBlog is, then for the sake of comparison, glance at the one of the Seattle blogs listed today on the Daily Links, the one marked: With Leather “People Really Do Hate the Celtics”. (Or just go to http://www.withleather.com/post.phtml?pk=2939 .)

The vile, juvenile, anti-Semitic remarks shown there illustrate the wisdom of maintaining a civil discourse, and for keeping the jerks out.

It boils down to what you want to accomplish. Three avenues:

1). Trade to get vet help for Pierce now.
2). Continue this two track, keep Pierce, try to develop youth.
3). Rebuild around Big Al, and potentially all others are expendable.

If we aren’t going in the direction of #3, all else is futile IMO.

Do we really need Danny in a Speedo?

Wildblue, I know most of DA’s trades have not worked well at first sight, but I don’t think he’s a bad trader and I don’t think anyone can take advantage of him. He can judge talent whether it’s in the draft or a current NBA player. The problem is finding the right mix of players of quality for the team. It’s not that easy. If you consider most of DA’s “bad” trades, he’s gotten out of most of them and has at times gotten draft picks that have given us some of our present players. Trades have different purposes. It might be a salary cap issue, to rid the team of malcontents, to get a quality player, to get a short-term fix, etc.
Wally was a trade to talk about. We knew of his knee problems, but lots of players have knee problems. If he didn’t have that he’s close to a 50% shooter from the field, with a high bb IQ. He can shoot the three at a high % and is close to a 90% free-throw shooter. If he is healthy he can give you 20 points a nite. He’s not a great defender, but he anticipates well and can help defensively with that. He runs the break and finishes well despite his lack of speed and leaping ability. He’s a tough competitor. So I really don’t think Wally was a bad trade when you also consider we got rid of Blount and Banks. I liked Ricky, but there were problems with him. Scals came via free agency at a pretty cheap price. He gives you stuff that doesn’t show in the stats. He can play tough defense against taller opponents. And he understands the game. He’s the one that usually recognizes the different defenses when he plays with the younger players. I think the problem with him is that he tried at first to do more than his skill level allowed. If he stays with what he does best he can help this team in it’s rotations. There is no sure move in basketball. Everything is a gamble to a point. With all considered I don’t think Danny’s trade and free agent moves have been that bad, especially when you consider the intangibles beneath the surface.

John CK writes- “Danny has to find damaged goods and fix them”.

Three words: Raef, Theo, Wally.

I don’t see that happening at all.

Guys, after LaFrentz, Wally, Telfair, and Theo, do we really want Danny taking the team’s highest pick in ten years and dipping into trade waters? As Jackie MacMullen noted in today’s EXCELLENT Globe column, Danny’s one shining moment has been in the draft. He’s done okay with some mid-to-late first rounders and early second rounders. Let’s see who he can nab at 5.

no kidding, wow!!! I went to that site and it really is stupid and revolting.

JohnCK, you make an excellent point——-Ricky Davis.

TrueGreen,

In some ways Dennis Johnson was the Ricky Davis of his day. Danny is trying to be Red, it is just that none of his moves have worked out. He has consistently taken chances on players with flaws hoping they turn into better players when they get here. Raef was a very good player until his knees went bad. Ricky could be a very good player if he played smarter. Wally was a very good player until he got hurt. All three of those guys are examples of the kind of player, if they had panned out, that Danny needs to be looking for. Raef had no worse of an injury hisotry than Baron Davis. Yet, Nelson is a genius for trading for Davis because Davis managed to get healthy. Same thing with Marcus Camby in Denver. He has a terrible injury history, but he worked it out and Denver got the NBA defensive player of the year at bargin basement rates. The Celtics need to find a player like that. I am open for suggestions on who that player is.

Let’s start by getting our facts straight. Don Nelson didn’t trade for Baron Davis. That trade occurred in February of 2005, long before Nelson was hired.

Any trade is going to be a band aid. They will bring in a “name” player that some other team is desperate trying to dump, e.g. the Chris Webber of 2007. The Celtics simply don’t have the assets to pull off a deal for a truly valuable player unless they are dumb enough to trade Jefferson away.

The exception might be the Nuggets or the Suns, two teams in luxury tax hell. Those are the only places where you might get a bargain. But 27 other teams know that too, and they will have their bait out there just like the Celtics trying to land a Shawn Marion or a Marcus Camby.

Aside from Jefferson, the one other big trading chip this team has in order to get better for the future is not mentionned in Jeff’s “Goin’ Fishin’” article.

JohnCK, I think you took my previous statement as disagreeing with you. I’m not. I agree fully. I thought bringing Ricky here was a good move and I thought trading him was a good move. (I wrote some more to explain, but the site finked out and I’m too lazy to rewrite it).

Brick,

Marcus Camby is 34 years old and I think last year was the first year that he played healthy the entire year. I am all for finding a diamond in the rough, but I can think of few dumber things the Celtics could do than trade for Camby. His value is never going to be higher than it is right now. He just won defensive player of the year. What are the chances of him actually staying healthy next year and even if he does, he is 34 years old. This year is pretty much the high water mark of his career. The Celtics need a player under 30 who is going to give them four or five good years and whose trade value has bottomed out. The last thing they need is a 34 year old with a history of injuries coming off a career year.

Again!

This team is 3-4 years away from being a championship team. It’s getting harder and harder to make trades where teams want to get something but give nothing back in return.

Our team doesn’t have the talent to give us that championship team as constituted. Oden and Durant would have added great excitement in the area, but still would have needed 3-4 years to become great players…. case in point Clevelandâ€â"¢s’ Lebron James

Jackie M had a great piece in the Boston Globe this morning.

I’m sorry it’s just the fans and media talking about trading for O’Neil and Garnett and its getting old fast.

The bottom line is that we need to take the best available player with the 5th pick and continue to develop our young players.

The hope is that Ratliff’s expiring contract and Wally’s in 2 years will allow this team to go after a top free agent, but for the moment we can’t.

The only player I expect a big contract would be Jefferson, everyone else can go test the free agent market if they like.

I’m so angered with not only the lottery, but our expectations of this team.

We need talented players, they have to be willing to come here and play and many players donâ€â"¢t view Boston as a place they want to go to.

This team needs to stop making stupid trades and signing the Scal’s of this world.

Danny says “we are a playoff team”.

Here’s the east: Toronto, Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit and Miami. These 5 will have better records and are heads and shoulders above us at this time.

Three spots: Nets (if healthy probably better), Washington (healthy Arenas), suprising Philly, Pacers, Orlando, the Celts and who knows what other team may surprise are fighting for 3 spots.

IMO we have little or no chance to make the Eastern conference finals and if management is not thinking long term on what is needed to get us there, we will be a middle of the pack for the next decade.

For all the “don’t trade Pierce” bloggers, this is what you have to look forward to in all probability. I’d rather build from scratch with Big Al and win 31 games to win 38 with Pierce and get a first round exit in the playoffs.

The one thing that’s virtually certain is that they will keep Pierce and go for the quick fix instead of the sensible long-term plan. It has been the modus operandii of this franchise, and it will lead to another mistake to add to Jackie McMullan’s long list of mistakes.

    The draft will yield us a good, if not great player. I’ll be interested to see how Horford measures out, but if he’s over 6-9, and has good size, wingspan, he could a player. He’s only 20. I know nothing about Yi, but if Ainge is convinced he’ll be star, I’ll accept that. I doubt Conley will be available. He selection may turn out to to be the steal of the draft, with his demonstrated qUickness and Lineage. We certainly can trade for a bigger player, but length is has got to be a priority
  We need to keep our eye on the prize, and that is a championship, not merely a competitive club. My view is that we can’t win consistently with PP, Wally, and Gomes. Their length, speed, and defensive abilities are too similar. I’d try to move Wally or Gomes first, pairing that with telfair/Green/ 2nd Rounder, and either get a serviceable big or another lottery pick.
   there are alot of unhappy teams out there, and we do have assets to participate in a large multi-team deal. Players I’d look at would be SAR, Kirilenko, Collison, even Nazr Mohammed , or Brendan Haywood. These all require varying degrees of input on our side, but possible.

   By the way, what has happened to Theo. Is he done, or can we get anything out of him this year

Look, we went through the issue of Marcus Camby and who the Celtics should draft and what they need to to in excruciating detail yesterday, in the discussion of the “Why they Won’t Trade Paul Pierce” article. No point in rehashing it here.

Except for Paul Pierce and all Jefferson, what’s in the Celtics bait bucket is good enough to catch one of the following: (1) a guppy, or (2) an old fish that’s been dead for a couple of days and is already starting to smell.

I think Conley is going to be there and he is the Celtics guy. I live in Atlanta and no one here on the talk shows are saying anything about Conley. They are all talking about Wright and Hortford. It is nuts I know but that is what I am hearing; that Conley is a reach and the Hawks need to take Wright. You have to remember this is ACC country and they all love Wright. I really don’t think Atlanta will take him. That leaves Memphis and Memphis has a decent team that just needs toughness down low to go with oh so soft Pau. Hortford will be their guy or maybe Yi, if they can move Gasol. I really think Conley is going to fall to the Celtics. The problem is that maybe Ainge is too in love with Rondo or too intent on rolling the dice with Yi to take him.

If the Hawks don’t take Conley, Memphis probably will. Ainge will have to be proactive to get him, and Ainge has not indicated that he’s willing to do that. Danny is still patting himself on the back for selecting Rondo.

Brick,

Not everyone is in the Conley camp. I would be shocked if Memphis passed on Hortford or Yi for Conley. I have yet to find one moch draft that has them taking Conley. Outside of Brickowski land, Conley is not thought of as a top five guy. I am not saying he shouldn’t be, but he isn’t. Conley is going to be there. You watch.

His is another intersting thing to think about. Sacremento is sitting at 10. There is no telling where Yi is going to go. If Danny loves Yi and it looks like he is going to fall and Conley is there at 5, I wouldn’t be shocked to see Danny try to trade down with Sacremento for Mike Bibby and the 10th pick. Sacremento would get out of Bibby’s contract and get Conley to replace him. Danny would get the vet he wants to keep Pierce happy and still get the guy he wants Yi at number 10. I know it is far fetched but it is not beyond the realm of possibility.

If Ainge brings that overpaid (28 million over the nest two years), over-the hill, can’t-defend-a-chair Bibby to Boston under any circumstances, then hee should be sent straight to the cukoo’s nest. That’s exactly the kind of egregious, unbelievably stupid blunder that this franchise must avoid.

Hasn’t Ainge said publicly that they need to get better defensively? Didn’t Cedric Maxwell say the same thing about 6 times on the radio the other day? And people are talking about Mike Bibby?

Hey at least Bibby will stay healthy. He is no bigger of a risk than Camby. The bottomline is that players like Camby and Bibby are the types of vets that are available. The question is which one is the better one to take a chance on. If you like Bibby, how about Ron Artest? He only makes $7 million and no one ever accused him of not playing defense. Which flawed Miss America do you like Brick?

Guys will go up and down on the mock draft board, there will be smoke, etc.

IMO, the 3 guys outside of Oden/Durant with the most upside are B. Wright, Conley and Yi (in no specific order). You may add Brewer, KU’s Wright too but because they are SF, the hype for them won’t be as great.

I think come draft day, these are the # 3,4, 5 guys selected (again in no specific order). I think if someone isn’t sold on one of the three, another team will move up to grab them.

Long term prospects for Noah and Horford are role players and I don’t think people are going to pick either one in the top 5, thus I think Horfords stock will drop as Noah’s has done throughout the year.

John CK, I like your idea to parlay the pick and try to get Yi at 10, but I don’t see Yi being there and I wouldn’t be happy with what’s left at #10, so I wouldn’t risk it.

Interesting, Portland is shopping Randolph to the Wizards. Wizards will be very tough with him and Arenas.

Dannu will make a move for one of the three of KG, Gasol, or JO this summer. All of them are itching to get out of their respective situations. All make big money that hinders their franchises. All of their franchises are at a crossroads – Rebuild or use their paltry assets to make moves. They all come with a little baggage. Memphis will be looking to dump salary for the sale of their franchise. Indy must either trade Granger to get a vet or go into rebuild with Granger and Diogu. A top 5 pick in this year’s draft could go along way. KG’s team is hopeless and he knows it. Expect a move close to draft day, book it.

If Danny is intent on trading pick #5 and if Conley falls to us, how about Scal and Conley to Portland for Brandon Roy?

Gerald Green doesn’t need to be McGrady, he just needs to Gerald Green. We don’t need the kid to be a top 10 player, we simply need to consistently improve in what he’s already shown he can accel at: coming off picks and knocking down the shot, spot up threes, driving the lane. We don’t need fancy dribbling or great showmanship or offensive domination.

Conely is rated the best PG in the draft, but I haven’t seen many espouse him as a top 5 (except local message board BB expert Birckowski). Don’t make the assumption that lotto picks will be based on need. They’ll be based on talent available.

I’m not sure why this is becoming a “keep the draft pick and trade Pierce” or “Trade the draft pick keep Pierce” propostion for so many fans . . .

You don’t have to bring the Chinese people to Memphis. You bring the Memphis Grizzlies to China, such as by syndicating the broadcasts of the games in China with Chinese announcers, so that the Chinese fans can watch Yi perform in the NBA. The Celtics will certainly do that if they draft Yi.

JohnCK, you really have to get over your Bibhy fixation. If you are goint to bring in a “tainted” veteran (and almost all NBA players over 30 who are on the trading block have some sort of injury or character issues, or else they are flat out overpaid), wouldn’t you rather bring in a 6-11 guy who block shots than a 6-0 defensive traffic cone? My god, man, look at this teams weaknesses and start making some sense.

Well, I think Corey Brewer is the next best option after Conley.

See what a package of Gerald, the No. 5 pick, next year’s 1st Rounder (likely a weak draft), Wally’s contract and Ratliff’s contract can get.
That’s not a bad package at all.
If you can’t get anything great in return…then unfortunately, it’s time to trade Pierce and get even YOUNGER.
Scary, but true.

Great article Jeff. Right now I am open for just about anything. That doesn’t mean just any deal, but like Jeff suggests I am ready to consider anything.

Sure I would like to see Boston win a chapionship again, but right now I would like to see the Celtics at least be .500 team that plays hard physically and mentally. You can think of the next Celtic championship as being at the north end of a north-south road. For the past ten fifteen years under the prior Celtic ownership and the current Celtic ownership/managment in particular the Celtics car has been driven east and west or in circles - the driver has stopped to try out new parts, amass spare parts, just about anything but turn north. There will be no new motor for the forseeable future. I, like a lot of fans, am tired of standing still. We would at least like to see the Celtics car on the right highway pointing north; we certainly never never reach our destination if we don’t even do that. Before a team can become Championship driven it needs to beome win driven. If a major trade will do it fine. If not lets draft well and move on as best we can. And lets start with a real positive training camp like Sam Mitchell ran with Toronto last year, not the small ball, street ball, headless chicken mess that Doc Rivers ran last year. Maybe that’s a reason the Celtics have always seemed to start slow under Doc Rivers. (To paraphrase that horse’s behind Rick Pitino, neither Oden nor Durant are walking through that door.) Celtics fans at least had some reason to hope that the team’s luck might change. WE HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO EXPECT current ownership to do much better than they have the last three plus years. Quite frankly I think it will turn really ugly for them if they don’t.

Brickowski said:
  If Ainge brings that overpaid (28 million over the nest two years), over-the hill, can’t-defend-a-chair Bibby to Boston under any circumstances, then hee should be sent straight to the cukoo’s nest. That’s exactly the kind of egregious, unbelievably stupid blunder that this franchise must avoid.

Hasn’t Ainge said publicly that they need to get better defensively? Didn’t Cedric Maxwell say the same thing about 6 times on the radio the other day? And people are talking about Mike Bibby?
———————————————————

Bibby can’t make them better or worse defensively. It’s coaching and the system, Brick. In this defense, if you’re looking for a point, find the best rebounding point you can….because they’re usually the ones trying to block out centers when the opponent’s shot goes up.

Geez, I’d like to see them win 40 games again. Let’s start with a modest goal.

It’s the self-deception that will do them in. They say they are a playoff team in disguise, one big move away from fame and fortune. Maybe they are trying to fool Pierce into wanting to stay and fool the fan base into buying tickets.

But they aren’t. Charlotte Bobcats Pierce 2 bad contracts (Wally and Theo) = the Celtics. That’s the reality, and they ought to act accordingly.

The formula I was trying to write was Charlotte Bobcats plus Pierce plus two bad contracts equals the Celtics.

I’ll tell you what’s going to haoppen next year. They’ll refuse to trade Pierce, they’ll make a few band aid moves and win 35 games. They will trumpet to the world, “See, we’ve improved. Rivers is wonderful. Ainge is wonderful.”

It’s exactly what happenend with the Knicks last year. They got to 30 wins, proclaimed victory, and proceeded to go 3-14 the rest of the way.

So sure, the’ll be 10 games better. Even a blind squirrel occasionally finds an acorn.

Given the way the East will be next year, what do you think a duo of KG and Pierce could do???
You say they’ll play .500 ball or get 35 wins, we can’t say anything yet because YOU KNOW this team will be considerably different on Nov. 1 than it will be today.

DinoRadjaLives said:

“I think a KG, Pierce, Al trio would put us in the Eastern Confrence Semi’s.”

Not without 5 other guys who can play a little.

Have a great weekend everyone !!!! see you all back on Tuesday……

Just think the draft is a month away…..

KG has never played with anyone remotely close to Pierce.
And I think a West, Rondo, Gomes and T. Allen CAN play a little.
Watching that Cavs team last night, outside of LeBron, Hughes and Gooden that team is UGLY.
I might take our crap reserves over theirs.

I’m likely dreaming here but I think a team like DinoRadjalives mentioned could WIN the East in a year or two.
As far as winning the whole thing and beating a team out west…not so much.
That’s what makes this whole thing so frustrating.

I can hear you now Jeff. Roger! Over and Out. I suspect we are in a better position to help by facititating big trade and can gain there. we have expiring contracts and youth which will be needed. team are selling but the prices are high Such as randolph Oneal and perhaps Garnett thus we might have the pieces that other teams wiill need to make deals work, too we should of course look qt all possible combinations to see what works best. at First I would exclude pierce Jefferson and Rondo from any deal why because pierce is the veteran we need and want find in a trade for some of our assests. on the other hand Rondo and Jeffersons fit the developing mode Along with G Green whom I would be patience iwth until our options are up At that point he will be a five year veteran. As Far as the #5 ick It should be in the mix of possiblities such as trading down for an incoming player Like Marion Randolph( only three way deal that send him to the third team we don’t need otr want him) and we should be opened to keep the pick if there is a potential super star or even a star quality player who presently can be judged to have in addition to the skill sets of talent and athletic also have the Basketball I Q. we are not going to get where we want to be next year but the playoffs are possible without a pick so a pick especuially at the 5 spot can’t do anything but help short and long term.also we must be carefull how we package the players for resale and trades as an example i would look to trade wally and scalibrine with ang trade for the # 5 pick Ratliff would be in the mix with another combination of players such as west gomes allen and perkins et al finally come trade deadline in February i would see where we are as a team and then look to see if it is an advantage to consider tradeing pierce for the right offer. I would not shop him however. we must all admit we have not had the horses or been in a position to get them maybe except for last year with the # 7 pick thus we must contiune to be realistc when we look to hudge Doc and Danny. I am maware they maybe forced to fall on their sword at years end but for my part iwill be pulling for them and the team to do well 40 wins and the playoffs is my definition of doing well. With that all said I look foward to the proosal of possible trade and draftees for the celtics

“The formula I was trying to write was Charlotte Bobcats plus Pierce plus two bad contracts equals the Celtics.”

The Bobcats have actually won 2 more games than we have over the last two seasons. It seems like the equation should be more like Celtics 75% Paul Pierce = Bobcats.

Or how about simply Celtics=Bobcats except that the Celtics have more overpaid veterans.

I didn’t realize that the Bobcats were a playoff team in disguise too. I’m sure Michael Jordan will be delighted when he discovers that fact.

My god, I just read something about B Wright possibly being very good. Why do people actually think this guy is good?

Corey Brewer is one guy I would stay away from. I’ve been reading your posts for a few days Brick, and this is my first disagreement with you. How many more wing players do we need? Let’s look at what we need— a solid heady point (Conley), a center (Yi), and/or a banger down low (Wright). I dont see how Brewer fits into any of these categories.

SoCalCeltic, I have read one of your posts, and already I can tell you have no idea what youre talking about. Why would we want Brewer? Because he could be the best all around player from this draft, and maybe the best after Oden and Durant. Also, Yi is NOT center but a wing player who shoots from the perimeter, and Wright is not a banger down low.

just because we draft a “wing” doesn’t mean we just add him to roster..and with West a small 2,GG a ways awayand Wally&TA hurt/surgeries,a wing that can play and defend might help….we need stars

Brick,my God give it a break…me&you could play with PP,AL&KG and make the playoffs in the WEST!!!bottom feeders in West no great shakes…until Oden&Durant show up

The wing position is the most plentiful in the NBA. I you think Brewer will be a star, that’s your opinion. I disagree. But wings are a dime a dozen. Why don’t we draft positions that are at a premium, like an elite point (Conley), a possible Pau clone (Yi, and yes he is a center), or an ultra talented forward that could possibly be the steal of the draft (Wright).

And yeah, I know Yi plays a lot on the wing, but since he’s 7 foot, I’ll call him a center. Just like Pau or Nowitzki.

Portland is shopping Randolph and Jack and trying to move in the top 5 in maybe a 3 team deal= dealing with the Hawks or Danny again in order to get Conley with Oden.

Portland definitely takes Oden over Durant IMO.

If they pull this off: God that is so scary in 3 years:

Starting lineup: Oden, Aldridge, Roy, and Conley- my grandmother could be the 5th starter and these guys are NBA contenders for years.

One rumor has Washington getting Randolph and Jack from Portland, and if true, we could just send Telfair there too.

They can then rename the team to the original team: Washington Bullets!

I wouldn’t call Yi a center, or label him any other position at this point. With Dirk, when Dampier is in the game he is definietly not a center, and he plays more like a 7’ SF than anything else facing the basket, permiter game, running on the break, etc.

For Yi, I think it all depends on who is on the court at the time. If Perk and Al, he’s a SF, if Pierce is playing SF than he is going to probably be more of a power forward/center if Al is on the court too.

Last year I was howling at Danny to move up and get Aldridge, a kid who could play C, PF, SF- and we were desperate for help with bigs last year. Toronto was publicly wanting to trade down and got no takers. We still are in dire need of big help, despite Big Al’s year.

Yi I think can play all 3 frontcourt positions. Both Al and Perk have had injury issues and when you talk about a guy like Scal being one of the major front court subs, we can’t compete with other teams.

Yi is not the big moose to clog it on the “D”, yet with this team lacking anybody but Pierce or Al that you can consistently bank on getting 12 points a game night in and night out- Yi will give us consistency with the scoring. You can draft a big man defender (Noah/Horford type) but offensively they are not a shooting threat and Big Al will be fighting double teams like he does at times with Perk on the floor.

I won’t be upset if Conley is taken at #5, I just hate to see us spending our 3rd straight first round pick again on a point. If Conley does get off to a slow start (like Telfair did), there will be the Rondo/Concley starter dispute. In other words, I see more of a drop off in the frontcourt than I do at the point. Conley may have the “goods” and he’s worth the risk. I also think Yi may have the goods too, also fits a long term need and worth the gamble.

In highlights I have seen, much of Yi’s strength is coming in transition, pushing the ball up the court, getting good scoring opportunities. “Dirk ball”. No different than what Danny was claiming last year at this time we were going to do.

I think running opportunities are more prevelant for the youngsters we have. I think Rondo is a pedal to the metal type player, Gerald will be much more effective in the open court than the half court sets. Gomes if he goes back to PF (sub) like he did his first year, will beat his man down the court everytime.

The flip side on making this work though, is if Pierce is still a Celtic we will be walking it up the court. You also have to sit Wally if you can’t move him because he doesn’t have the speed or durability to play the uptempo game.

When the running game isn’t available, teams may sag off Rondo, but I can see a great two man game between Yi and Big Al for years to come. Yi will be our second best scoring option.

If we trade the #5 pick (Gone fishing) it is another sucker move by Danny- 2 drafts in a row. IMO, the only guy out there who can make this team a true contender is KG. I don’t see Jermaine or Gasol getting us over the hump with Pierce.

Other teams have more to offer than we do for KG if he becomes available and Minny saying no way they give up KG anyway. The only shot we have at KG is a deal that includes Big Al and I’d rather build around Al, the #5, possibly Rondo, and what we can get for Pierce.

BCeltfan, Name the teams you think KG could realistically go to in the east cause that’s where McHale will try hardest to send him first. If that gets exhausted then he’ll look at LA or Phoenix. Chicago comes to mind obviously. I think Boston will be in the discussion. For how long, who knows.

Just for the record, I am not in the camp of “ready to trade”, especially Gerald.

Impatience will be the curse that keeps this franchise mired in mediocrity.

People giving up on Gerald, two years out of High School, is just ridiculous. This guy has an upside bigger than any other player except Big Al.

Yes, he still gets lost. He can also score 30 points a night at age 20.

The number five pick will give us someone very, very good. We have to accept the growing pains and acknowledge that we are taking small steps.

Big Al, Rajon, Gerald, Tony and the number 5 is a great nucleus for the future. I also think Perk has a lot of improvement left in him, bigs always take longer, as do High School players (which gives Perk the double whammy).

Danny and Wyc, as pointless as this is, please stay the course and let these kids grow both as individuals and as a team.

The other factor not often mentioned, is how much these guys enjoy playing basketball together.

That factor, more than just about every other individual talent issue, will be the most significant factor over the next three years, as we grow into a genuiine team who understands the nuances of each others play and this defintely includes defense.

I can’t believe the hysteria getting the number 5 pick has created.

A bit of faith. We are heading in the right direction.

Cheers

Aussie

I just saw in Hoopshype.com that Bird is looking for a good outside shooter and a player who can create out of the dribble. Wouldn’t it be nice to give Telfair, Wally and 5# for Jermaine Oneal. I think bird could consider this one

Darn, Truegreen, you already know what kind of players Oden and Durant are going to be? Can you tell me who will win the Super Bowl this year? And the weather for the 4th of July as well.

A 3rd string point guard, an injured 13 millon dollar a year shooter and the #5 pick for Jermaine Oneil?
 
Come to your senses man!

halfman/halfoyster said:
  Darn, Truegreen, you already know what kind of players Oden and Durant are going to be? Can you tell me who will win the Super Bowl this year? And the weather for the 4th of July as well.

I don’t know what kind of players Oden and Durant will be and neither does anyone else. Don’t know about Super Bowl. Would guess for rain on July 4.

Patriots, sunny, cloudy, windy with some precipitation. All depends where you’re going to be.

Does anyone think Horford is 6’9" or taller?

halfman/halfoyster—I looked back at what I wrote and saw where you got that from.
I’ll amend my latest statement: I don’t know what kind of players Oden and Durant will be, but I do know that neither one is or will be a Larry Bird.

Little D, In the game against Ohio State in the final, they gave him 6-10. sometimes he is 6-8, but often the give him 6-9. I really hope he is more like a 6-10

Truegreen, I have to disagree that neither Oden or Durant will be a Larry Bird. What is the yard stick you are using to measure this against? Three NBA championships?

You put the comparables of McHale, Chief, DJ, Ainge, etc supporting cast around either one of these players and I guarentee you will see 3 championships.