And This Time He Means It!

I’d bet this dies down, and Kobe goes back on it within a day. (I was frustrated, I want to win, but I’m a Laker for life, some comments from the Lakers about how we are trying to win, blah, blah.)

But… if he is in the market — I would imagine the Bulls are the leading contender, which might make us the leading contender for Garnett. Is that reasonable?

Hmmm….

Kobe wants out. Lenny Wilkins will listen to offers for #2.

If the Lakers pull that off and end up with Durant, I’ll need medication and an intervention.

If ever there was a time NOT to shop Pierce, it is right now. There are so many all star type players that PP would just get lost in the shuffle….
-As Jeff notes, it is good news for the Cs that Lakers might change from being “buyers” to being “sellers”.
As a final thought, I could see Kobe in NY….

He is just trying to force the team into some action. So it doesn’t turn the Lakers from a buyer to a seller. It more likely turns the Lakers from a do-nothing to a buyer. Whether that’s a good or a bad thing for the C’s depends on what direction Danny goes in

Ratliff, Wally, Delonte, Gerald, Telfair and two #1’s (including this year’s) for Kobe and Radmanovic. Make it happen Danny.

Why dont we send Paul, Delonte, and Green to the Left Coast for Bynum, Odom, and Kwame’s contract???

My friends, I haven’t read the LA Times sports pages with such interest since….well…..the Lakers dealt Shaq. I can’t tell you how much of a whining jerk Bryant is. He basically disrespects his current teammates who played injured all year. I’m especially thinking of Odom. Odom lost his baby boy to Sudden Infant Death Syndrome last summer. He came back committed to play the year. He first hurt his knee and then seriously injured his shoulder. He played with a torn rotator cuff for the last, at least, third of the season if not more. He now needs surgery. Odom could have shut it down for the season but didn’t and played with a lot pain. Kwame Brown has just had reconstructive ankle surgery showing that he tried to play on an ankle that wasn’t working. Then, Bryant turns around and criticizes the moves Kupchak made to get these players to the press. There’s a guy with a sense of team chemistry…….

BTW, I agree with the comment that Bryant isn’t going anywhere. And, throwing fuel to fire, Jerry Buss (in his 70s) was just arrested for DUI and he had a 23 year old chippie in the car with him.

I can’t believe people here want Kobe on the Cs. First, he is a jerk. Yes, he is probably the most talented player in the league, but he is not going to turn this team around, especially with what it would cost. It would take Pierce or Al J (and a lot more) to get him, and he isn’t that much better than Pierce. What has he done with the Lakers and their current cast?

I think the C’s are out of a Kobe derby. The Lakers wouldn’t want Pierce, and none of the ‘best young talent in the NBA’ is good enough in a deal for Kobe, except maybe Al Jefferson.

I agree with those above who said this will likely die down. If anything it fuels speculation about their ‘buyer’ status, since I can’t see the Lakers without a star.

Kobe and Turiaf for GG, Wally-World, D West, Tony Allen and Bassy. Well… OK…. as long as we can hold onto Scal!

Lakers charge outrages prices for game tickets. Fan base will not tolerate a trade. Kobe will stay in L.A. despite what he is saying. Unless a trade for KG comes, Lakers are not going to go into the season without their superstar. Expect other roster moves but I don’t see Kobe being traded.

I agree with the comments of Bceltfan — no way the Lakers are trading Kobe for less than a superstar. But … I take back a bit what I said above after listening to the whole interview (up on espn) — he sounds pretty sure, and repeated the demands several times over the course of quite a few minutes. It’s not a situation of getting trapped by the direction of the interview.

I agree with bceltfan and all others who think Kobe will stay in L.A. As for a trade, Kobe is such a self-centered person the only possible destinations big enough for his ego would be Chicago or NYC.

No matter what, this sucks big time for the Lakers. They’re stuck with either trading their best player from an extrordinarily weak position, or being trapped in an annual 8th seed with an aging, pissed off, unlikeable superstar and years of mid-level draft picks. Just wait until Kobe starts getting hurt! It’s like Boston, if Pierce was a total deusch and we had a crappier draft pick.

Welcome to hell, Laker fans!

Chicago, Knicks, Philly, or Atlanta with the #3 pick would be logical.

If Kobe really wants out, the lakers have two choices; try to move him for someone of somewhat equal value or move him for draft picks and cap space. It does them no good to move him for an allstar. Suppose the Lakers get Mark Cuban to trade Dirk Nowitske for him. Where does that leave them? Winning 40 games a year and loosing in the first round of the playoffs with Dirk rather than Kobe. Further, no way do they get Garnett for him because Kobe would never agree to go to Minnisota to take Garnett’s place. The Lakers need to face reality. Until Nash and Duncan get old, they are not getting out of the West. They need to start planning for 2010 and 2011 when Nash is 36 and Duncan is 35 and the Spurs and the Suns are done. Trading for Dirk or for Staudemire or even KG doesn’t get them ready for when the Spurs and Suns get old and won’t get them over the hump right now.

The Lakers need to trade Kobe for picks, young players and cap room and build for the future. They also need to trade him to the East so they don’t have to play him six times a year. The Lakers can’t trade Kobe to Chicago because to make the salary numbers work, Chicago would have to include Ben Wallace who is in his 30s and owed millions. That does them no good. Why not the Celtics?

I am not talking about Paul Pierce either. If I am the Lakers, I don’t want Paul Pierce. I want the number 5 pick, Theo and Wally’s contract, the Celtics number 1 next year and Minnisota’s number one, plus Gerald Green and Delonte West and whatever other players are necessary to make the salaries work. If they do that, the Lakers have Bynum to build around, the number 5 pick this year which will be Yi, Brewer or whoever they like, pluse their own number 1 and two number 1s next year and Minne’s number one in 10 or 11. More imporantly, they have $24 million in cap space coming free the next two summers when Theo and Wally’s contracts expire. Unlike Boston, cap space really means something to the Lakers. They are in L.A. Every NBA player would come there for the right price. They could translate that space into a young star or two. Add that to Bynum and the players they get in the draft and Green who should be at least a decent starter and they have a chance to do something in three or four years when the Spurs and the Suns get old.

Meanwhile, the Celtics have a lineup of Pierce, Bryant, Jefferson Rondo and Perkins. That lineup wins the East every year for the next three at least and probably wins a title.

I heard on WBZ radio sports report Kobe only wants to play for Chicago.

No Look, that would be “douche.” Nowitski is a “deusch” sort of. The Lakers and Yankmees seem to be headed into the same perfect storm.

Kobe will never agree to go to Philly or Atlanta. He won’t go to a non-contender and those two teams are hopeless. The Lakers are really stuck on this deal.

“I heard on WBZ radio sports report Kobe only wants to play for Chicago.”

As much as I would hate to see the Celtics having to play Kobe in the East, watching the Lakers loose him for Deng and Gorden and gettting stuck paying Ben Wallace’s giant contract, would be really funny. Not only would the Lakers be terrible next year, they would be in salary cap hell because of Wallace’s contract and have little hope of getting better.

Kobe on Dan Patrick, top of next hour (3:00 est).

The same Boston fans who complain that Pierce isn’t a leader, want to bring in Kobe Bryant, the spoiled, self-sabotaging, head case? Iâ€â"¢ll just assume you also wanted Clemens back to the Sox. Selective-amnesia itâ€â"¢s FANNN-tastic.

This on the heels of Jerry Buss getting busted for DUI last night. Tough day for the stache.

I could never picture Kobe in Green…although it would please all those sell-outs that chanted “MVP, MVP!” during the game in the Garden last year.

Tough day for the come over I should say.

Kobe is the best perimeter defender in the league and the best scorer. How many players could ever say they were both the best defender and scorer in the league at one time? Jordan and maybe one or two others back in the paleolithic era of the NBA. He is such a headcase he won three championships. Yes, he played with Shaq but no way do those teams win (one of which went 15-1 in the playoffs) without Kobe. Anyone who wouldn’t want him on their team is just nuts or so blinded by their hatred of the guy they aren’t thinking straight.

Also people who say he is a headcase why? Because he ran Shaq off? That is not true. He didn’t run Shaq off. It was Jerry Buss who refused to pay Shaq that ran Shaq off. The Lakers are such a scumy organization they let Kobe take the public blame for running Shaq off when it was the come over that did it. I always thought it was Kobe who ran O’Neil off out of ego. Now we find out that wasn’t true. Kobe isn’t the head case. The Laker organization just made him look like one to cover up their being cheap.

Honestly I dont see any chance Kobe comes here but I agree with Jeff that this only strengthens our position in terms of getting KG or JO. Kobe in Chicago would be real, real scary for the rest of the east. The other option that the Lakers have would be to turn Kobe around to Portland for Randolph and the #1 or Seattle for Lewis and the #2.

Why not Kobe for D Wade? Shaq recently quoted he believes Kobe 100%, whatever that means. Kobe would get another shot at a title with Shaq, and LA would be getting pretty equal value. I imagine their contracts are close enough that it could be pulled off.

I thought about the Kobe for Wade trade. It makes sense in a lot of ways. Would there be anything more funny than seeing Shaq and Kobe reunited and winning a title for a different team. It would be as if Cowens and Havelcheck left Boston in 1974 and ended up in Milwaukee togehter winning a title in 1977. I can’t imagine the torture that would be for Laker fans. Because of that, the Lakers would never do it, no matter how much sense it made.

Kobe will not go to Phily or Seattle. He has a no trade clause. Why on earth would he agree to go to another bad team? Good God, he misses Jerry West so he is going to go play for Billy King. Not going to happen. As far as going to Chicago, find me a way for him to go there that does not involve the Lakers getting stuck with Ben Wallace’s contract. Again, why on earth would the Lakers make that deal?

BTW I think we all need to accept that both Kobe and the Lakers management are responsible for running Shaq out of town. But with that said I still maintain that Kobe is a head case and will continue to be a head case for whatever team he plays for next year.

kobes not going anywhere. hes just trying to force the lakers into trading for JO or KG

“Bryant told detectives in Eagle, Colo., ‘he should have done what Shaq does … that Shaq would pay his women not to say anything’ and already had paid up to $1 million ‘for situations like this.’ The statement came near the end of a lengthy interrogation about a hotel employeeâ€â"¢s complaint that Bryant had raped her.”

Kobe ends up in Chicago if the bulls resign Brown for a one-year 8 mil deal and then bunch him with Deng and Thomas or Gordon for Kobe and Farmer

I’m not sure what the last statement implies. If it is that Kobe is a douche-bag, then ok, heck they sold shirts like that at the Garden as I recall. If you do not want Kobe on the C’s for that reason, what are the parameters of our character-based rejections? What if a guy is a real jerk but does not violate the law? What if he swears at fans? What if he does no work in the community and says that he would rather be pimping than helping kids at Children’s? I am always confused by these vague points. I want concrete parameters of what disqualifies Kobe (is it the adultery? The accusation of rape?) This is an interesting conversation that I woul dlove to hear more about. Thanks guys.

Who has more of a ‘right’ to demand anything? Kobe (makes playoffs last 2 years) or Paul (classic good guy on a very bad team)

I would expect Paul to pull this crap. But he doesn’t.(?) Maybe we ought to be thankful for the star we have.

if Kobe is demanding a trade a la Vince Carter…

Here is the trade that Toronto and New Jersey made

Toronto gets:
Eric Williams
Aaron Williams
Alonzo Mourning
2 first round draft picks

New Jersey gets:
Vince Carter

We could give them Gerald Green which is much more than anything Toronto got…

Lakers get:
Gerald Green
Theo Ratliff
Sebastian Telfair

1. pick this year
   unprotected 2008 first rounder

Celtics get:
Kobe Bryant

If they don’t reconcile I’d have to agree the Bulls are the first choice, then Philly, Boston, and the Knicks (stern factor).

Tex Winter’s on Kobe Bryant: “Out of control … selfish … stubborn … uncoachable.”

This is going to be one hell of an off-season if HALF of this stuff plays out. Can we have the season end today, please? No one will miss the actual basketball being played.

I don’t know about Tex Winter, but I wonder if he ever mentioned that Kobe is the best player in the game. If we want to have a “moral” team at the expense of winning, fine (I for one, wouldnt mind this a tall— it would be a refreshing take in pro sports and would reflect our Puritan roots), but hasn’t the SABR revolution in baseball showed us how ridiculously overrated stuff like clubhouse chemistry is? I mean, Jordan was a gambling adulterer too, as are many professional athletes (A-Rod anyone?) and, for that matter, many American men, as much as we’d like to think otherwise. I guess, then, the calculus you use to determine if Bryant is “worth it” is fundamentally dependent on what your goals for this organization are.

And, BTW, as scummy as the Lakers organization is, it did stand behind Kobe when he was having his very nasty legal/personal problems.

I think he is serious and the Lakers are SOL. All Bryant has to do is hold out of camp. What are the Lakers going to do? Not pay him? Bryant will get his money eventually and its not like he can’t afford to miss a few paychecks. Meanwhile, the Lakers have the worst team in the league and no reason for anyone to pay their outragous ticket prices. Bryant holds all of the leverage here.

“Meanwhile, the Lakers have the worst team in the league”

Um…what?

I continued to be shocked by how disloyal all of you are.
PP, GG #5 for Kobe Bryant? Are you kidding me? How does that make us any better?? Jeeze Pierce spends one season injured and everyone forgets what an incredible ALL STAR he is and how LOYAL hes been to this organization through good and bad.

Alright so his selfishness, pettiness, and court troubles aside, why do so many fans here assume adding Bryant equates to winning? He hasnâ€â"¢t won a playoff series since Oâ€â"¢Neal was traded and now heâ€â"¢s holding his franchise hostage, assuring that if he is dealt it wonâ€â"¢t be from a position of strength.

DRKalloch,

It is sports not life. If the guy is a criminal or a danger to someone that is one thing, but who cares if he is a bad guy? I don’t know that Larry Bird is that great of a guy. He has a daughter from when he was young he won’t speak to. The same people who rail on Clemmens have no problem with Curt Shilling who is one of the most egotistical loud mouths in sports. People root for laundry not morals. If Clemmens had never left Boston, the Boston fans would be think he was great, private plane for days off or no and if Shilling played for the Yankees they would think he was the devil.

I don’t know what happened in Colorado with Kobe Bryant. But the bottomline is the guy can play and he is not a drugie or a career criminal and will stay on the court and do his job. I want that guy on my team.

From the LA Times…….

The franchise has not decided what to do with Bryant’s declaration, although it will not be as easy as it appears to move him.

Bryant will obviously waive his no-trade clause, but he has a trade kicker in his contract that is believed to add about $13 million to his total contract value, a cost to be absorbed by any team that acquires him. The money would be paid like a signing bonus and would not count toward the salary cap. The Lakers had to pay a similar fee to Lamar Odom when they acquired him from Miami three years ago, paying him about $8 million.

Mikeford -

How does sending Pierce, GG and the #5 to L.A. for Kobe bring us any closer to winning a championship? It doesn’t, thats how.

I seriously doubt Kobe is going anywhere. Its all posturing for change, but a Kobe for Paul Pierce deal with some sugar on the Celts part is a pretty good deal for Lakers in a distress situation. We may have to switch picks, or add Gomes and or Green/West, but Kobe is a lot better player than PP. A lot better. That being said, It would create a love hate situation, not because he’s a Laker, but because he’s a jerk.
   If he were moved, I’d put Atlanta and Golden State at the top of the list. But all these guys making $20MM are going to have to be squeezed into certain situations, and its not easy.

John, I think you misinterpreted my post. I think he’s the best player in the league. All I was asking for from others on this board are the parameters they believe should be used by the Green to exclude certain players from the organization simply on the basis of character/chemistry alone. You are right about the fickle (or should we say, loyal?) nature of sports fans— the best example being Bonds, as he is ADORED in SF, but hated universally everywhere else.

You have to keep Pierce and Jefferson if you deal for Bryant. Without those two, you just turn into the Lakers east. Who cares? I don’t think the Lakers would want Pierce. If they have to deal Bryant, they are going to want expiring contracts, draft picks and young players, not 30 year old all stars making max money coming off an injury year.

I am with VT Bill. It is the offseason. This is a frustrated Kobe letting the brass know they better do something productive this off season. Paul said the same thing just not so loud. No way they can get fair value for this guy.

Drkalloch,

Sorry to misread your post. I don’t think Bryant would be a bad teammate in Boston. I am a big believer that sometimes ego can work for a player. If Bryant leaves LA he will want to do nothing more than stick it to the Lakers by winning a title. Just like Shaq actually found his way to the gym after going to Miami, Bryant would find a way to be a good teammate. Would there be a better way to stick it to the Lakers than winning in Boston?

I really dont think anyone can match a package that the celtics can present to the Lakers. Give them Pierce, Gerald, West, and Ratliff’s expiring contract for Kobe and Kwame.
Pierce goes home to LA, where he and Odom keep the Lakers right where they are. They will be about an 8th seed in the west with that roster. They get to rebuild while remaining competitive. The now is built around PP and Odom, and the future is on the roster in the form of Green and Bynum
The Celtics immediately become the best team in the east. Rondo, Kobe, whomever at the 3(Wally, Gomes, Allen, Brewer?) AL and either Perk or Kwame filling out the rest of the roster. This celtics team would definately beat LeBron’s Cavs who are about to win the east. Come on Danny…do it!

Just because he wants to be traded doesn’t mean he is going to be traded. I hear everyone saying give up pierce for him but if you do that you are in the same spot you are in now. The trick is to get Kobe and still keep Pierce and Jefferson.

I could see the lakers trading Bryant for a superstar, then creating some cap space for 2 years down the line for Bryant to return. Then the Lakers have (Garnett, Nowitzki, whoever) and Bryant. Come to think of it, we should talk to Pierce about doing that.

You may very well be right John— heck, between Kobe and Randy, Boston franchises would certainly test your theory.

Jeff absolutely. PP and #5 would easily do it, in this draft. Maybe throw in another future first rounder.

People are saying that trading Pierce for Kobe leaves us in the same spot that we are in right now and that is outrageous. Kobe is the best player in the league. Line up with Kobe and Al wins the east. Hands down. Look at what LeBron is doing with those washed up scrubs in cleveland.

Jeff,

The Celtics have draft picks. Yeah, the Lakers will ask for Jefferson, but who says they will do any better from somewhere else? Unless Isiah is calling the shot, they will not want Pierce. Pierce doesn’t give them a chance to rebuild. The Lakers will want Wally and Theo’s contract, draft picks and young players. The first two are easy. The third will mean Al Jefferson in Lakers mind. But what if every other offer is flawed? What if getting Deng and Gorden mean taking Wallace’s contract? What if Kobe won’t go to Atlanta or Phily? What if no one will pay his trade kicker? You are right that a fair deal would include Jefferson, but chances are the Lakers won’t get a fair deal for Bryant. Lastly, Kobe would come to Boston to play with Pierce before he would agree to play in Atlanta or Phily or worse yet Minnisota sans Garnett.

Also Jeff,

If you could keep the draft pick, why not throw in Jefferson? The draft pick will get you Thornton or Yi who might end up being just as good of players as Jefferson. Moreover, since those guys are older, especially Thornton, they would contribute right away so you don’t miss Jefferson as much.

If you listen to the Steven A. Smith/Kobe interview on ESPN.com right now, there’s no way Kobe isn’t moved. He flat out says things can’t be repaired.

“no, sorry folks, I just don’t believe the C’s will end up with Kobe”

You may be right but that is only because the ownership is too cheap, has not balls and even less imagination. The Celtics could do it if they really wanted to.

I just give up on so many of you. Kobe the best player in the game?? After what you have seen him do with the cast he has? Miami had one of the best records in the league over the final 4 months of the season and sent 2 of their 3 best players, Odom and Butler, to LA. So Wade, Butler, Odom were very good…but Kobe, Butler, Odom were ~.500

Now look at LeBron and his cast vs LA now.

By the way, Butler rediscovered his game in Wa. While with the black hole there, Arenas.

Its hard to even describe and rationalize how poorly Kobe effects those around him. But facts and wins and losses are things. He is not the best player in the game and is a CANCER.

I know 75% of you just don’t know any better, and I am sorry for you.

JUST SAY NO to Kobe. He’s not what we need to get over the top. A ball-hog that would take Pierce AND Al out of the game isn’t what we need.

Well this is terrible news for the trade Pierce crowd, and excellent news for the aquire a veteran people. Personally, I’d rebuild, since the cost of aquiring someone worthwhile will be exhorbent. If it doesn’t prove to be so, then I’m open to all possibilities. As for Kobe, there is no way he is coming to Boston, as he is bound for the Bulls. The Bulls are going to send Deng, Gordon, and a pick for Kobe. Then again, the might send Gordon, Tyrus Thomas and a pick. The bottom line is, the Bulls have a lot to trade, whereas we, and most others, don’t. :(

Exactly RW. If this goes down, the very small pool of potential Pierce buyers shrinks even further. Yet again the Lakers foil us.

There is no way the Celtics are in the mix for Kobe. We don’t have the young talent to trade (and no, GG does not count as young talent) and the Lakers would have no interest in Pierce. Furthermore, if Kobe is frustrated with the Lakers inability to make his team competitive, there’s no way he’d accept a trade to a franchise that is largely viewed as irrelevant and run by a laughable incompetent.

The only way we’re in the mix is as a third team facilitator, and in that case, look for whoever we trade with to win the 2008 title. This is all bad news for the C’s.

Actually I can see Pierce traded to LA as a Kobe replacement. I could see something like Kobe to Phoenix, Diaw and Barbosa to LA, Marion and #24 to Boston, Pierce to LA.

steven i smith?? Can’t one of the best players in the game do better than that? This is sort of like the Artest or Payton scenario. Can you picture Kobe taking instruction from our “coach” for life?? Kobe’d be about half as likely to take instruction from Doc as Payton was. Beside, Kobe is way too good a defender to play for Doc.

Keep the pick. Keep the core. Fire the coach.

I think Jeff is right. Kobe is leveraging a Laker panic to get someone in to help him. That’s the more likely scenario.

It’s good for us. Another superstar on the market? Drives down the teams and price for guys like JO and KG. No, we will never get Kobe, but it will help us indirectly.

JohnCK said:
  Also Jeff,

If you could keep the draft pick, why not throw in Jefferson? The draft pick
will get you Thornton or Yi who might end up being just as good of players as Jefferson. Moreover, since those guys are older, especially Thornton, they would contribute right away so you don’t miss Jefferson as much.

I think you’re greatly undervaluing Al Jefferson. He’s one of the best low post
players, the best the C’s have seen, since Kevin McHale. He’s basically played 1 1/2 years in the NBA, He’s already learning to deal with double and triple teams, I don’t know of any NBA player that has his low post moves. He’s become a vocal leader and is respected by his teammates. No player in the draft is going to take his place. As to Kobe coming here I just don’t see it happening (I hope). And why would anyone pay him a trade kicker when he’s the one asking to be traded?

What if Jerry West decides to stay with Memphis in some capacity? Would Kove agree to go to his idol?

I hear the White House is talking behind closed doors right now with Dr. Buss on a Karl Rove, A-Gon, and a protected Gitmo detainee, for Kobe….

The Kobe trade demand does not help the Celtics. But it does help Ainge and Rivers, because the media scrutiny will be off of them and on poor Mitch Kupchak, who may get fired because of this.

Of course, one has to envy a franchise like the Lakers where poor performance has negative consequences. In Boston, it is rewarded.

maybe this is too simple, but to help the Celtics become a contender of any sort, I think the best scenario right now is to add a solid veteran (if not All Star veteran) to the nucleus of Jefferson/Pierce….to get a Kobe, it would cost you one of those guys…to me, that doesnt make you much better….a guy like Kobe is out of range for the Celtics (as far as what they could offer for him)…guys like Gasol and Marion are within range..

“Of course, one has to envy a franchise like the Lakers where poor performance has negative consequences. In Boston, it is rewarded.”

Yeah that is why Mitch Kupchak is loosing his job. Not. The Lakers are worse than the Celtics. That is why Bryant is going crazy. They have done nothing but make stupid moves since getting fleeced for Shaq. At least in Boston someone is in charge. As opposed to LA where the comeover and his clan each run the team one day out of every week. If you are looking up to the Lakers Brick, you are 10 years behind reality.

We can throw out all the scenarios for a Kobe trade, but it is not going to happen, and he won’t be a Celtic. Next topic.