Does Shawn Marion Make Sense?
by Jeff Clark on Jun 11, 2007 8:00 AM EDT
in Boston Celtics Articles
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I am a big fan of Shawn Marion. He has an all-round game that would make any team he’s on better. On the other hand, before making a deal to bring him to town, the team has to make sure he makes sense within the context of the future of the team.
It is really hard not to like Shawn Marion’s game. He is very athletic, runs the floor with the best of them, rebounds extremely well for a player his size (6’7"), and he can catch and shoot from downtown with the best of them. He’s even an underrated defender. He’s the kind of guy that can take a back seat in the scoring column and still manage to dominate a game.
On the other hand, on just about any team other than the Suns he’d be playing small forward. Which happens to be the same position as Paul Pierce. Which happens to be the same position as Wally Szczerbiak. Which happens to be the same position that Ricky Davis played. How many times can the team bring in guys that duplicate Pierce and expect it to magically work out? I understand the concept of getting the best talent you can and working out the details later. I just want to know how long we’ll have to wait to see it all work out.
Already thinking ahead, you could shift Pierce into a shooting guard type role. The 2’s and 3’s in Doc’s offense have similar responsibilities anyway. The issue is what to do on defense. I suppose you could work out a switch where Marion takes the best wing player, but you can’t expect Pierce to keep up with the quicker 2’s in the league. Needless to say Wally would be an expensive 6th man bringing spot up shooting off the bench.
On the other hand, you could play with more of Doc’s small-ball lineups by using Marion at the 4 and Al Jefferson as a center. Still, that means adding another challenge to Jefferson's plate. It also makes the team painfully undersized. It would have to be run to perfection, and as much as I love Rondo, he’s not Steve Nash. (And Doc isn't Mike D'Antoni)
Which brings up another hesitation. Will Marion be able to duplicate his success without the Canadian MVP tossing him alley-oops? You can't discount the fact that Nash makes his teammates better, but Joe Johnson was able to thrive (at least indivitually) elsewhere. Personally I think Marion might not get as many easy buckets as he would in Phoeinx, but that won’t limit the rest of his game. He’ll still going to crash the boards and run the floor and play tough defense and hit outside shots.
Some wonder too if he’d be happy in Boston. He does have an opt out after one year, so there's the danger of trading valuable assets (like the 5th pick) for a guy who would end up being a one year rental. You'd almost have to get permission from the Suns to talk to him about an extension before completing the trade.
But would he want to sign a longer contract to play for the team that was second worst in the league last year? I am actually pretty sure he’d love the chance to start over. Just listen to some of the comments he made in this ESPN The Mag article.
"I want the recognition," says Marion, who got fewer votes for February's All-Star Game than Shane Battier. "I feel I've done what it takes to get it, but for some reason it hasn't happened."
So what about it, Shawn? Would you rather be a 30-point scorer and an MVP candidate on a lesser team, say, one only flirting with the postseason, than the sidekick to the sidekick in Phoenix? "Wow, that's interesting," he says thoughtfully, as if he's never entertained the prospect before.
Marion pauses nearly 10 seconds to concentrate on the question. Only the muted sound of late-afternoon traffic outside the two-story living room breaks the silence. He fiddles with the remote as if it holds the answer. "I've never been asked that," he continues. "That would be an interesting situation to be in, to really show people what I can do.
"But we'd be in the playoffs, right?"
With a lineup consisting of Rondo, Pierce, Marion, and Jefferson (regardless of where you put them), I’d say "yes, you’d be in the playoffs Shawn." Of course that means Doc would have his hands full getting everything to fit right. And Danny would have his hands full trying to get better complimentary pieces to work things out. And neither has proven that they can do either of those things. Not to mention the not-so-small detail of working out the luxury tax implications. Would Wyc pay luxury tax dollars for a team that hasn't proven anything yet? Would Danny be able to dump Wally's salary before the end of next year? There are a lot of question marks.
One last thing to throw out there: What if the team traded for Marion, then flipped Pierce to another team for a lottery pick and a couple of players? Depending on who those players are, you'd have to consider it. On the other hand, the bird in the hand theory says it is easier to just keep Pierce and look elsewhere for help.
With all of those things said, I'm still too big of a fan of Marion to dismiss the concept outright. Does Shawn Marion make sense? In many ways he does. In other ways he doesn't. It all depends on what other offers we are getting for the 5th pick and how Danny and Doc plan on using Marion if he comes here. If push came to shove, I'd say I'd love to have Marion. But I'd say that based more on emotion and curiosity than common sense.
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"That would be an interesting situation to be in, to really show people what I can do.
“But we’d be in the playoffs, right?”
ME, ME, and more ME…
No thanks.
Draft #5 and entertain offers for Pierce if you have to. Marion is a very nice player, but trading #5 for him, is 2nd round fodder at best.
by Real World on Jun 11, 2007 9:19 AM EDT reply actions
94-91 for Marion to Boston right now…
Are you people insane!?
2 years ago this guy should of been the MVP (22per on 52.5%shooting and 12 rebounds with 2 steals and 1.7 blocks). He plays every game every season and could start at the 4 most nights.
It’s amazing we have a chance to get this guy…if it goes through (please insert TA or Telfair for DWest) we win 50 and DA’s 5 year plan is complete (and a success).
by HOOPS! on Jun 11, 2007 9:23 AM EDT reply actions
I like Marion as a player as well. But when you combine the salary requirements with the position logjam and the fact that we might not see him for very long and the chance that the number 5 will be a better player for longer for less money, I think you have to pause. We need good players period. We should do something in free agency either this year or next. I know that we’re panicking now, but we really shouldn’t. Aside from considering what our other options are, we should consider what Phoenix’s other options are because from my standpoint they are in a bit of a jam. This is the guy they want to get rid of. Maybe we can get him without giving up the pick. A year from now would any team trade Marion for Hortford, Yi or Brewer straight up?
i think, although marion is a quality player, trading for him would be a mistake. to my knowledge we will take yi at #5. if this is the case, it gives the celtics a new dimension and in my opinion he is the only player in the draft who will make an immediate impact, other than oden. what’s more is, utah will be listening to offers for ak47, who i think will be a better bit for us at a cheaper price than marion anyway.
Thanks for the article, I appreciate its thoroughness. I’ve been weighing this out in my head for weeks, long before the rumors, and one response I got on this site from someone really peaked my interest. I was blaming some of his success on Steve Nash and he told me he was playing at that level before Nash, then I compared the numbers.
I’m not going to sit here and average them out, but the only impact stats wise, which isn’t a telling stat but it sure adds onto the pile of evidence in his favor, is that he raised his FG% from 47% to 52%. Other than that, his stat sheet is maxed every year and it has been since he got in the League, not a thing has changed since Steve Nash’s arrival other than that.
Aside from that, the reason why he can’t be passed on, especially for this C’s team, is because of three other stats. 1, 83% career from the line. 2, career 37:53 MPG and 3, and my favorite, since 2000 to present he’s played 79, 81, 81, 79, 81, 81, 80 games respectively.
I’m not a stats guy although this may make it seem otherwise, but these numbers just don’t lie and if he can be landed anything and everything should be done to make it happen. The way things have gone someone’s always hurt anyway so I don’t think the logjam is a huge issue, especially with Wally, and if having him coming off the bench is a huge issue that’s a problem I think we could all handle.
Plus with the amount of draft picks Phoenix has we could still end up with two draft picks when it’s all said and done after the trade.
by davemonsterband on Jun 11, 2007 9:43 AM EDT reply actions
I think it could only work if we gave up Telfair, not West or Allen. It woudl also only work if Jefferson played center.
Marion is a very durable player which I like. But I dont know if we should give up our 2 biggest chips for him (theo, #5) for him, especially if it gives us a mismatched lineup.
I would actually love our small lineup, but i don’t think Marion would have the same numbers here as he had in Phoenix.
Could we do this trade and get one of the late 2nd rounders in return… Sean Williams territory?
The C’s would win 45 games if they traded for Marion, ack, I’ll even give you 50. So where does that get us come playoff time? Are we contenders? If so, for how long? As a fan who remembers the 80’s (albeit late 80’s), I want a 5-10 year run as a championship contending team. I don’t want a 1-3 year window of being “competitive” or my personal favorite “relevant”. Marion is a very good player that would help this team right now, but it it doesn’t make us contenders.
by Real World on Jun 11, 2007 9:46 AM EDT reply actions
You don’t give #5 for a one-year rental of Marion. Just offer Ratliff and Gomes. If Phoenix doens’t like it they can pay luxury tax. (Why would Phoenix want Delonte West when they already have Raja Bell, who is a very similar player, not to mention Barbosa in a similar role? I don’t know who dreams these scenarios up.)
There are only three large expiring contracts available: Ratliff (11 mil), Kwame Brown (9 mil) and Antawn Jamison (16 mil), assuming that Jamison exercises his player option. Teams like Phoenix and Denver have no other alternatives. So giving up the 5th pick to save Phoenix millions is just crazy.
Brick we agree as usual. Phoenix is looking to sell. You don’t pay the asking price in a buyers market, with an owner who has to sell. For the C’s, pick #5 in this draft is far to valuable. Trade a future 1st, but not #5.
by Real World on Jun 11, 2007 9:51 AM EDT reply actions
“one-year rental of Marion”
that is exactly what this will be. and even if next year we did become ‘relevant’ marion would want to be the main man on a team and we’d be looking at a big free agent signing (at best). the number #5 pick has the potential, along with al, rajon, and a few other pieces, to make us actual contenders in the future. either give up a later/future pick for marion, or keep the #5 and acquire kirilenko.
I love Marion but I have to give Brick credit on this one. The only reason Phoenix would even consider sending us Marion is the tax relief (not the pick, though I’m sure they would love it). I cannot believe they would want to blow up that team being so close to the Spurs. That being said, as Brick mentioned make the offer and if they want to look elsewhere so be it. The rumor is probably a leak anyways just to exert presuure on Boston as most GM’s probably know that the clock is ticking on Danny. Hopefully he will do the right thing.
If Marion is tired of being the 3rd option, why would he want to come to Boston, with Jefferson and Pierce? Why would a guy leave a championship contender thats paying him $16MM and go to a wanna-be team? Just how good is his offensive game? What will the #5 pick be like in 2 years?
Lots of questions
No for Marion. Too much talent in the draft. definitely a buyer’s market.
by alexham2k2 on Jun 11, 2007 10:21 AM EDT reply actions
"Also, why would we want Kirelinko at 16-18 mil for the next 4 years or so over Marion? I missed that one…. "
because kirilenko we can get at a lower price and with the assurance that he wont bail out after a season. he’s better defensively than marion, and would arguably fit into our system better than marion.
a team of rondo pierce kirilenko al yi could dominate the east in the future.
what i’m basically saying is i don’t see us getting marion without giving up the 5th pick, but i see us being able to get kirilenko and keep the 5th pick. if we can get marion while KEEPING the pick, then obviously we should take this route.
Wow – I give up.
The #5 pick could get us Marion and people aren’t excited?!
HE SHOOTS 52%, is always top 5-10 in rebounding at 6’7 and never misses a game!!
What do you people want/expect???
Can’t win in this city.
by HOOPS! on Jun 11, 2007 10:33 AM EDT reply actions
“trade Pierce for Kirilenko and #25, and use Ratliff to obtain Camby”
that wouldn’t be a good move at the moment. pierce for kirilenko and #25 is simply not worth it for starters. and introducing kirilenko and camby to the current team would mean we would need to change our system and style of play entirely. plus, where does that leave the 5th pick? a developing player off the bench? plus, i’m pretty sure we’d need to give up more than just theo for camby.
i see these as panic transactions, and this would change the face of the whole team altogether. moving pierce is not the way forward for boston, as it is he is among the elite nba players in terms of talent, and considering other factors like age, possible injury proneness, contract, we will not get equal value in return anymore.
celticmaestro said:
“…introducing kirilenko and camby to the current team would mean we would need to change our system and style of play entirely.”
Right!!
As for the #5 pick, I would select Mike Conley and trade Rondo for additional assets, maybe to Atlanta for pick #11, which I would use to select Tiago Splitter.
imo Marion would be a great fit in our front court. He and AL are more than capable of starting 4 & 5.
Big AL is a matchup nightmare for opponents and will score at will against any C in this league; defensively, we also have Perk that can log big minutes at 5 on those rare occasions that AL is out-sized.
Marion is versatile, and can defend / rebound as good as any pf in the league. His offense compliments Paul and AL well b/c of his outside shooting and more importantly – he can guard L. James come playoff time (how many teams in the East would have a better guy for that task?).
SM will also have the opportunity to help lead a team into the limelight in a very high profile sports town (ie: he will no longer be overlooked). As long as we can afford him (and we have some success), my guess is he will re-sign when his contract is up.
Marion is a legit all-star. I can’t believe anyone would but Kirilinko in the same sentence with him. What is with you people and Kirilinko? The guy has been in the league for five years, is 26 years old and has never averaged more than 11.6 points a game. I am sorry Brick but you have given away all of your credibility by saying the Celtics should trade Pierce for him. Why would anyone want a guy making near max money and averaged 9 points and 5 boards last year? Good God what is wrong with you people? I know, he plays great defense. Yeah, that makes it all better. Stop it with Kirilinko stuff. It is rediculous.
by JohnCK on Jun 11, 2007 11:06 AM EDT reply actions
AK47 won’t cost you #5, and on that team he no longer gets the touches he did before. AK changes the game on the defensive end, can own the glass, and is a capable scorer. I like AK, and he can be had for a discount I think. Utah needs someone with athleticism to play along side Deron. Injury aside, Tony Allen might have been a good player for the Jazz.
Pierce for AK and #25 is not value. I’d prefer we keep #5, and move Ratliff for Camby. That would be an addition at no cost to the franchises future. Denver is looking at the Luxury Tax, and might be willing to do business.
by Real World on Jun 11, 2007 11:08 AM EDT reply actions
“AK changes the game on the defensive end, can own the glass, and is a capable scorer.”
Since when is 5 boards a game “owning the glass”? What AK ever done in his career that would cause anyone to beleive he is a capable scorer? What, that big 11.6 ppg career year he had a couple of years ago?
by JohnCK on Jun 11, 2007 11:12 AM EDT reply actions
brick – i can’t see how changing our whole system and style of play will work. the coach we have has tried to instill this fast paced style of basketball, you’re telling me that, less than a year later, we should change that without giving it a proper run? that just points to the celtics being in complete dissaray – and that is NOT the case.
johnck – kirilenko had an off-season, yeah, but he is a proven all-star, all defensive calibre player. trading him for pierce is ridiculous, but if it’s defense we need dramatic improvement on, go for him at a lower price than marion.
if you make the deal for marion, you have to plan on re-signing him long term.
but why would celts doubters want another all-star?
give me a break!
if you’ve got rondo-pierce-marion-big al and a legit defensive presence in the middle (pryzbilla-perk platoon) you have a chance to win atlantic division.
but no. that #5 pick is going to make celts good in 2010?
Ego?, Pierce and Walker did fine as dual stars, Pierce and Marion would too. Marion would be much bigger in Boston than in Pho.
Defense?, Please, Marion covered Tony Parker so I don’t think there are any 2/3 match ups that would be a problem. Rondo, Marion, Pierce, Jeff, Perk would be a top defensive team and would get every rebound.
Money?, That is the problem. Luxury tax in 08/09 when we sign Al may be what prevents this trade.
“johnck – kirilenko had an off-season, yeah, but he is a proven all-star, all defensive calibre player. trading him for pierce is ridiculous, but if it’s defense we need dramatic improvement on, go for him at a lower price than marion.”
I will give you the Kirilenko is a better option than Camby. Camby until this year was rarely healthy and is in his mid 30s. I might trade Theo’s contract and say Gerald Green or Tony Allen or Gomes for him, but no way do I give up the number 5 pick for him. He would be an upgrade over Perkins but not an all star.
by JohnCK on Jun 11, 2007 12:18 PM EDT reply actions
I, for one, have always thought that Marion is vastly overrated. Steve Nash makes him a dramatically better offensive player…I liken it to what J Kidd did for Veal Scalabrini. I’m not saying Veal is fit to hold Marion’s jock, but if you are willing to tirelessly run the floor, Nash will add 33% to your offensive numbers.
If you go back and look at the game logs from this year, there was a string of games that Nash missed with injury,(february 6th,9th,11th and 14th) in that string, a time when Marion should be depended on more for the scoring load, he went for 12,11,11, & 10 points respectively. The game before Nash’s absence Marion scored 19 and the game after Marion scored 31. Is it a testament to Nash? absolutely…but thats my point.
by gobo on Jun 11, 2007 12:30 PM EDT reply actions
HOOPS — I agree 100%. I can’t believe there are so many people here who prefer to wait for a pick to develop when a proven all-star, great defender and rebounder, is on the table. I think these people have become so conditioned to losing and looking forward to the draft every year that they don’t understand how the NBA works. Proven commodities are worth far more than speculative draft picks.
Get Marion. Worry about money and resigning him later. Let’s win a few games for a change. Winning breeds winning. It attracts free agents.
BIG POINT everyone is missing: You CANNOT build championships thru the lottery. San Antonio is the one and ONLY exception to that rule. Lottery teams tend to stay in the lottery year after year until they ficure it out and start using those picks to get real players.
Thanks for the article, Jeff. Aside from 3-point shooting, I’m not sure how much Marion would give us that Horford and Noah wouldn’t give us in a couple of years. Both Horford and Noah are excellent defenders, both are good rebounders, both run the floor well, both are good passers, and Horford can hit the occasional 17-footer. Plus Noah would give us much more height than Marion, and Horford would give us much more strength. I realize that Marion’s 3-point shooting would be very valuable as it would open up the interior for Al, but I’m not sure that’s worth an extra $14 million a year on a team that is loathe to pay the luxury tax — even assuming that we’d be able to extend Marion’s contract.
by Oscar Gamble on Jun 11, 2007 12:43 PM EDT reply actions
Marion would be an excellent addition to the team but we are more than one player away. We need the number 5 pick to add to our team. Beside Marion is a 6-7 small forward. He does not want to play the power forward spot. That is one of the reasons he wants out of Pheonix.
AK-47 can be obtained very easily now without giving up the number 5. #32, a future 1 and Ratliff would be all it takes. ak-47 is a 6-9 defensive force at the power forward spot. We could then draft Brewer to play the 2. Our team could look like this.
Rondo
Brewer
Pierce
Ak-47
Jefferson
that would be a great offensive and defensive team.
On the contrary, the lottery is the best way to get the players that win championships. Cavs and Spurs are the perfect example. Moving players is so complicated, and the great ones tend to stay put. Portland will be the next example in 3-4 years. Anyone who thinks the Celtics can trade or free agent their way to the finals is dreaming.
Do Not Give Up the #5 pick
“AK-47 can be obtained very easily now without giving up the number 5. #32, a future 1 and Ratliff would be all it takes. ak-47 is a 6-9 defensive force at the power forward spot. We could then draft Brewer to play the 2. Our team could look like this.”
That would be a great deal for the Celtics if they could get Utah to buy it and Wyc to pay for it, two very big ifs.
VT bill is right. Keep the pick. Don’t take someone else’s problems. Take your shot at getting a top flight player. I might be willing to trade down if Danny likes someoen like Thornton who would be there later, but no way do I go below 10 in this draft.
by JohnCK on Jun 11, 2007 1:11 PM EDT reply actions
Wow – I give up.
The #5 pick could get us Marion and people aren’t excited?!
HE SHOOTS 52%, is always top 5-10 in rebounding at 6’7 and never misses a game!!
What do you people want/expect???
Can’t win in this city.
Pierce also never missed a game. Until 2 season ago.
People expect someone who’s not 29, doesn’t expire in 1 season, doesn’t duplicate our star player, and doesn’t demand a max contract. How is that a start?
in my opinion this is the celtics’ best bet. keep the #5. and with it draft yi jianlian. move theo and tony allen and a future second rounder for ak. that leaves the team looking like this:
pg – rondo (west backup)
sg – pierce (wally/gerald backup)
sf – kirilenko (wally/gomes/scal backup)
pf – jefferson (gomes/scal/powe backup)
c – jianlian (perk backup)
in addition we’d move telfair and have the 32nd pick. to me that looks like a team with depth and a good core – no one who really has an “attitude” problem. it’s not going to bring a championship next year, but in the east who knows.
If the Celtics became contenders you don’t think Marion would get any kind of attention? If he came to Boston he’d be an all star every year and gain respect as the guy who “just wins.” As noted in the ESPN article Marion wants respect and the article goes onto note that Shane Battier got more All Star votes than he did. You don’t think the Boston faithful could give him some real popularity? Please.
Get me Marion, and let’s start winning again finally. Isn’t anyone else sick of stockpiling assets?
The lotto is way the Cavs & Spurs got the PLAYER – not PLAYERS, to win a championship. Both teams have used trades & free agency to surround their franchise guy with capable veteran role players.
We need to do the same and surround Pierce, AL, & Rondo with capable vets if we are ever to leave lotto-land.
Correct me if Im wrong but doesn’t swapping Marion’s for Theo’s contract defeat the purpose of what the Suns are trying to do? They’ll still gonna have to pay that luxury tax. Doesn’t make any sense
by whales on Jun 11, 2007 1:46 PM EDT reply actions
I think Marion would fit in in Boston. First, he wants to be “the man” and get some credit. The Celtic faithful are desparate to win and would love the guy if he came in and helped produce a winnner. Second, Paul has never liked being the man and wants someone to take some of the heat off of him. Marion would do that. I think him and Pierce would get along great. No one in the East has three players as good as Marion, Pierce and Al Jefferson. I think getting Marion could put the Celtics in the finals next year. I agree with StartOrien, lets make this deal and start winning for a change.
by JohnCK on Jun 11, 2007 1:50 PM EDT reply actions
Correct me if Im wrong but doesn’t swapping Marion’s for Theo’s contract defeat the purpose of what the Suns are trying to do? They’ll still gonna have to pay that luxury tax. Doesn’t make any sense
Because of the matching salary rule, the Suns have to take almost as much salary as they give away, so the major part of the savings will come through taking shorter contracts (e.g. Ratliff).
That is unless they trade with a team under the cap who’s willing to kill their cap space with Marion. There are only a few teams under the cap, so this doesn’t seem likely.
I think Marion would fit in in Boston. First, he wants to be “the man” and get some credit. The Celtic faithful are desparate to win and would love the guy if he came in and helped produce a winnner. Second, Paul has never liked being the man and wants someone to take some of the heat off of him. Marion would do that. I think him and Pierce would get along great. No one in the East has three players as good as Marion, Pierce and Al Jefferson. I think getting Marion could put the Celtics in the finals next year. I agree with StartOrien, lets make this deal and start winning for a change.
Marion couldn’t get to the finals this season with Nash and Amare, and you think he’ll be able to do that with Pierce and Jefferson? What a joke.
JohnCK
which is it, keep the pick or do the deal for Marion? I don’t dislike Marion, but to give up #5 for a short term borders on desperation. And I don’t see Marion as a 4 full time. He can’t guard them 1/2 court, and Celts aren’t up tempo enough with PP to utilize him. We need another big to play next season.
The Suns site on RealGM talks about trading Marion to get bigger up front. Sound familar?
Marion is a band aid. This team needs major structural changes. We have a 24-win season and people want more of the same? So Marion turns this team into a contender? LOL LOL. There is no end to the appetite of some people for rancid kool aid.
The Celtics have three pieces to a potential contending team 3-4 years down the road: Jefferson (starting pf), West (6-7th man, combo guard coming off the bench) and Perkins (backup center). Maybe you add Tony Allen to that group, but only if he comes back 100% from his torn ACL.
You could add another critical piece with pick #5, but not if you trade it away.
Everyone else has to go. Pierce is too old to be an integral piece of a championship team built around Jefferson. Rondo is too erratic. Gomes doesn’t defend well enough to be a rotation player on a contending team. Szczerbiak is too slow to play in the league any more, and can’t stay healthy anyway.
The rest are practice players. Ainge has two choices: he can start rebuilding this team the right way, from the chassis up, or he can just slap on a few extra pieces of expensive chrome to keep the fans happy while the rest of the vehicle heads right to the junkyard.
I laugh when people think Kirilenko and #25 is not enough for Pierce. If you want to know what Pierce is worth, look at what Marion is worth.
Brick, I pretty much agree with your breakdown of the Celtics. I do believe that Rondo is a keeper, though. His shooting could be better, but there’s much more to the game than that.
This is one of those cases where I could really go either way. I like the notion of taking payroll dollars that are doing nothing for you right now and trading them for one of the most productive and reliable players in the game. It would make us a better team.
On the other hand, I’m not sure how this deal works personnel wise. Last year, our PG rotation was Rondo, West, Telfair. Dump West and who’s your number two PG? Telfair? Ray? No. No way.
Also, as Brink points out, Perk is a backup center at best who has a hard time staying healthy. I don’t worry about Jefferson being able to score in this conference, but I do worry about him being able to defend against bigger players. This is why I’d be leaning toward holding the pick and drafting Noah.
Now… if we could dump Telfair and Ratliff and maybe get our hands on the 24th pick in the draft as well as Marion… that might be a little too sweet to turn down. You trade two massively unproductive players for one extremely productive player, and give a late first round pick in a deep draft to a guy whose one competency has been to find talent late in thin drafts. Still presents personnel problems, but maybe you give it a shot.
by p_dawg on Jun 11, 2007 3:23 PM EDT reply actions
Marion is the perfect Doc person defensively. He can guard all 5 positions so he wouldn’t be out of position in Doc’s idiotic blitzing defense….But then there’s the other 4 players on the court…at least half of which can’t guard their own position. Let alone anybody else’s. Kirilenko can guard 3 positions…Now we need 3 more players just like them and Doc might be able to get them over .500.
Marion would need to sign an extension before I commit …
with respect to dishing PP somewhere else – are you thinking minny – in which case we would end up with #7 and phoenix’s two latter picks in the first round
for Paul Pierce, Theo Ratliff,Sebastian Telfair ,the #5
we could conceivably get Shawn Marion,Ricky Davis, Mike James,Randy Foye and the #7 and #24
At #7 we could get a big like Noah to add to the mix
by 10_percent_club on Jun 11, 2007 6:01 PM EDT reply actions
I am not for the Marion trade. It is the equivalent of Buffalo trading for Bledsoe. We might get a few more wins, but I think we all know that this isnt going to get us over the top. I think Rondo is still up in the air as far as whether he fits into the contending team scheme, but I do see how he could be considered too erratic. But his turnovers were low and he plays excellent defense, and I am not sure if there is anything “erratic” about that. I am saying this because this is perhaps the most central issue at this juncture. If we could determine with some sort of certainty that Rondo has the makings of a top five point guard, then Ok. But the jury is still out, and there is a strong possibility Conley will be there for the picking. And he looks like he could be pretty good if not great. The reason why is his ability to float around with the ball, Ali/hummingbird like, as he surveys the court, pursues different angles, and assesses different opportunities. Nash does this the best, perhaps. It is a quality that all great point guards possess, and this guy might have it. if he does, we should grab it. A player like that makes anybody better, which means that not onyl will we draft a great player, but all the other players on the team will get an upgrade as a result, which is quite a bonus. But if Rondo is as great as everyone thinks he is or could be, what can it hurt to have two guys like that on the same team? You can get great value for guys like that.
by jurrasic earl on Jun 11, 2007 6:02 PM EDT reply actions
if we are going to be a running team someone like marion needs to be our centerpiece not someone who refuses to run
by 10_percent_club on Jun 11, 2007 6:32 PM EDT reply actions
we’re going to be a running team and the troops are coming home soon
by jurrasic earl on Jun 11, 2007 8:29 PM EDT reply actions
Wasn’t Utah one of the last 4 teams standing this year, and wasn’t Kirilenko an integral part of that team? I guess I must have been imagining it.
Oh yeah, and that had everything to do with Kirilenko’s 8 pts and 4 rebs, and absolutely nothing – with Williams, Boozer, Okur, or even Derek Fisher. The stress is on integral, not on part. I bet there are a bunch of players which you can plug in Kirilenko’s place and have the Jazz produce the same performance.
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