these are three very talented players. the only way we draft them is to trade pp for a big. we are overloaded at their position.

Thornton’s assist-to-turnover ratio is atrocious at .28. Even taking a more charitable ratio like (steals blocks)/turnovers only yields 1.04, which indicates that his disruptive ability toward his own team is almost even with his disruptive ability toward the opposing team.

Can anyone put Thornton’s stats in a better light? Are his turnovers unusually high because, say, every night he was getting hacked and mauled by double and triple teams? If so, that would be different from turnovers caused by himself, such as traveling, double dribbling, bouncing the ball off of his foot, etc.

here we go with the trade pp talks again… :P

Just trade with atlanta, get JJ, a more experienced wing and better than all 3 mentioned,plus we get to draft Noah at 11…if it means letting Gerald go, i can live with that.JJ is far better than GG now and will help PP now…Rondo/JJ/PP/Al/Perk…Get either Noah or Hawes with the 11th.

All three are very nice players and intriguing. Thanks but no thanks, however. The C’s need a big. And there’s no way Noah makes it to #11. Keep the pick and take Noah or trade down only to where he is still going to be available (not past the Bulls).

The Utah press is “suggesting”, not reporting a Wally/#32 for Kirilenko. That would free up space for a wing player. I think Brewer will be a nice player, but at 185 lbs, Thinking he’s going to immediately become a shut down defender, is a lttle premature.

   I’d think it would be tough for Atlanta to give up JJ when they haven’t finished paying for him with next years’s #1. If they’d just take a PG with the 3rd pick, they’d probably like him better.

No way in hell Utah who made the WCF give up Crybaby kirilenko for that little..

“no way in hell Utah who made the WCF give up Crybaby Kirilenko for that little”…

  Heck, I was of the opinion that we’d be giving up too much! Utah wants to rid themselves of Kirilenko’s contract…his game is on the downside…Wally (if healthy) provides the kind of offense Utah hoped Kirilenko would supply….Wally’s contract will expire next year making him desirable as a trading chip or as a contributor with eventual cap relief…

Jeff, any reason that you only listed..three.. wings? Obvious by his exclusion..Yi.. and perhaps L. Wright (Kansas)? They too represent similar strenghts and weaknesses or do you have other information suggesting that the choice will come down to your “highlighted” three?

moskqq : im no fan of Kirilenko but im sure other teams could beat that offer ..

Yi is a category all by himself..either a athletic Dirk that we take or another Darko potential guy that we pass on…is Danny building a team around Pierce or getting pieces knowing he can trade him and be setup longterm???..AL is the only guy untouchable…the draft is huge but it’s not the end so things need to shake out over the coming months before we set a roster..with #5,PP and Theo we’ll have options

Just reading between the lines, but Danny suggested that Thornton would likely be able to duplicate his collegiate performance in the NBA but was less sure that others in his group could do likewise. He also labeled some of your “three” as good team “contributors”, not stars at the next level. He seemed to be suggesting that Thornton could be a star at the next level because of his leadership in college. For instance, although possessed with great “instincts”, Corey Brewer may not have similar defensive success in the NBA (but could never be a poor defender either).

Interesting to read your “capsule” on Green and be reminded that it was strinkingly similar to one I read in the past…Josh Howard’s bio…Hummm

Brewer is still the best prospect at #5. You can assume Oden, Durant and Horford will all be gone in the top 4. Atlanta will take Conley, Wright or Yi. Yi is a long term project and may be more Darko than Dirk. Wright has a questionable motor. Conley makes no sense because I think the pg need is relatively low. If you cannot trade down, Brewer has to be the pick. He can be a third option on offense, is a good defensive player and is a good team guy. Then you work on trading green and Theo (maybe in a package for Rashard). I am still hoping they don’t trade the pick because I think it will hurt them too much in the future.

If they take Yi , you have to assume they would consider moving Pierce at some stage because i just dont think he will want to stick around waiting for more players to develop anymore.He feels he has waited long enough for the opportunity at something greater and that window of time is closing..

From these descriptions, Thornton would be the only one to take. MCPU40, that’s sounds downright painful.

Well, if anyone heard Maxwell on WEEI yesterday (at least when those other clowns weren’t shouting him down) you will realize that none of these players is the answer. Maxwell also said they need to trade Pierce, although the trade he proposed (to Dallas for Josh Howard, Devin Harris— which would require filler on both sides, since Howard is BYC1)is unrealistic. Brewer is the best of this bunch, and he’s just a little over 6-6. What’s the point? NBA teams are built around a big man and a point guard, not wing players.

The more I hear about the upcoming draft and the associated rumors and machinations involving the Celtics, the more resigned I become to the impending disaster. For one thing, Rivers seems to be pushing just as hard to trade the pick as Pierce.

“The Utah press is "suggesting”, not reporting a Wally/#32 for Kirilenko."

I think they might do that. Kirilenko was just aweful last year and makes a ton of money. The fact is that with Boozer there and his complete incompetance at playing anything but the 4, makes him pretty useless to Utah. Wally would absolutely fit in with their offense and greatly improve the team over Kirilenko. If he is healthy, Jerry Sloan could figure out a way to use his shooting abilities. Perhaps the Celtics could resurect Kirilenko’s career by putting him down low and not expecting him to do much besides rebound and play defense. Granted that is an aweful lot to pay a headcase crybaby like Kirilenko just to play defense and rebound, but the Celtics are so bad at those two things, he might really improve the team.

Why do that and do the Joe Johnson deal? Trade the five pick and the rights to Conley and Gerald Green and Theo Ratliffe for Joe Johnson and the number 11 pick. The Celtics could then take Thornton or Hawes or Julian Wright maybe AC Law at number 11. Their lineup would then be

Rondo
Johnson
Pierce
Kirlenko
Jefferson

Allen, West, Perkins, and Gomes and the number 11 pick off of the bench. That is a pretty good team.

“NBA teams are built around a big man and a point guard, not wing players.”

Current NBA teams are. They don’t have to be built that way. The Lakers won three NBA titles with Derick Fisher as their PG. The Bulls won six titles without a true PG. The Rockets won two more in the 1990s without an elite PG. The Celtics won two of their three titles in the 1980s without a true PG. You just need good players. Nothing says you have to have an elite PG to win a championship anymore than you have to have an elite Center to win a championship. You just need two or three elite somethings and good role players to put around those elite players.

You know it’s too bad Allen tore up his knee, cuz we’d have even better trade options. Oh well.

Anyhow, AK47 for Wally & #32 makes sense for both sides, since Utah has been fantastic at picking in the 2nd round, and would rid themselves of AK’s contract, while the C’s would get some much needed size and defense in the front court. My only concern would be the $63 million over 4, and what that would mean for the C’s cap, aquiring another vet, and signing our young guys in the future. I’m not sure we could afford to trade for AK and then sign Rashard Lewis. We’d be talking $30 million for PP & AK, with another $10-12 for Lewis, with the rest of the roster’s salary. How do we resign anyone else (Jefferson)?

BTW, I think Ainge really likes Thorton, and knows he can get him well past #5.

celticmaestro said:
  draft yi
trade for rashard
win the atlantic

pretty simple really.
_________________________

Pretty simple, really? With Rivers’ phantom defense?

Who defends the opposing 2 and 3? A couple Eastern Conference examples: Rip and Prince score 70 against PP and Rashard. Tank Carter and Jefferson would score 80 against PP and Rashard. Gordon/Deng? Any Cav’s 2 guard and the primadonna? Those two at the 2 and 3 combined with Doc’s cluelessness defensively would make Paul Westhead’s Nuggets look like the NBA’s All-Defensive first team.

We’d be crazy to give Utah BOTH Wally and #32. Utah is looking to dump the salary and long term commitment (63 million over 4) for production that they are not getting.

Wally, surgically repaired, could be as productive as ever and his contract commitment is less than half of Kirilenko’s. In this salary cap age we had to take Tefair and Ratliff just to save 20 million to dump Raef’s contract.

There is a great risk in taking on a sizable contract like Kirilenko’s especially since his game has gone south and not north. His contract was based upon expectations of INCREASING upside, not DECREASING performance. There will not be many teams interested in taking on his debt, especially with the promise of this draft.

the 32 could be anyone from marc gasol to kyle visser going big
and alando tucker to jared dudley going wing

I like Kirilenko when he’s healthy, but 4 yrs on that contract is too long. We will need to resign a few of these young players at some point. Al is gonna have to be paid.

JohnCK said:

 “NBA teams are built around a big man and a point guard, not wing players.”

Current NBA teams are. They don’t have to be built that way. The Lakers won three NBA titles with Derick Fisher as their PG. The Bulls won six titles without a true PG. The Rockets won two more in the 1990s without an elite PG. The Celtics won two of their three titles in the 1980s without a true PG. You just need good players. Nothing says you have to have an elite PG to win a championship anymore than you have to have an elite Center to win a championship. You just need two or three elite somethings and good role players to put around those elite players.

I’ve heard this logic before, and I still don’t buy it. The one consistent point that beats out your argument is that either a team had a GREAT point guard OR center, or they simply had incredibly special players BEYOND the point-guard slot.
So if I have Shaq and Kobe, with Big Shot Rob and Phil Jackson coaching, do I really need an awesome point guard? No, a combo guard might do it.
The Celtics had a Hall of Fame frontcourt. Of COURSE they didn’t need a point guard, but DJ was special in his own combo way and a tremendous defender.
All these non-point guard players were SPECIAL. We don’t have that kind of special (yet). An awesome point guard makes you special.
If the Hawks don’t take Conley, we must, because after him there are no special players, just good starters, left in this draft. I wouldn’t mind a lockdown defender as a wing for a change, but is it worth it? I’m intrigued by Noah simply cuz of his incredible energy, which we need for sure.

There are no gaurentees with Conley. Yeah, some people like him but a lot people liked players like TJ Ford and Stephan Marbury and neither of those guys turned out to be special. Further, an awesome point guard alone doesn’t make you special. If that were true, Bob Cousy would have won a title before Bill Russell got there and New Jersey and Pheonix would be in the finals every year. It is probably true than an awesome Center can make you special, but even then he needs someone on the wing to play with. If the Center alone made the team, Wilt Chamberlain would have won 10 titles instead of Russel and Patrick Ewing would have gone to more than just two finals. I stand by my contention that you need two or three special players at pretty much any two or three different positions. It doesn’t matter what the positions are. My great PF and SG, will beat your great PG every time.