I’d do it—but like you said,we gotta keep the 5th pick or swap for the 7th pick.

you cant give jefferson up now for a guy who has maybe 3 good years left in him. I know KG is a hall of famer but even with him and pierce together it isnt enough to win the title. Everyone around here keep saying how the east is sooo weak and nows our chance,but the goal is a NBA championship not just an eastern conference title. A Pierce and KG team is not enough to compete with the top teams in the west its been proven tim and time again that the way you build a championship to in the NBA is through the draft. Don’t give up your best young assets for a 2-3 year run that I believe wont be enough to get us a NBA championship. Keep the pick see how the team pans out over the 1st half of the year and go from there

My first thought when I heard this also was: The Twolves must be giving up the #7 if were giving up the #5. Remember the Wally trade a couple years ago when it wasnt reported until afterwards that we also got a future first in the deal.

I don’t understand why anyone would think we would be that much better with KG and Pierce together. The personnel around KG right now is probably just as good, over all, as what would be left here, and those Wolves have been way out of a play off spot two years running. Ricky Davis is no Paul Pierce, but Paul Pierce is no Kobe Bryant, or Dwayne Wade. We would be a playoff team in the East, but past the first round? I’m not so sure. And the shelf life would be so ridiculously short, what would be the point? The present and the future is Al Jefferson. I would rather explore ways to get value for Pierce. Send him to KG and take back Foye and their 8th pick in the draft.

Relax. Mallomars are back on the shelf for the summer so grab yourself 3 or 4 and stop worrying. Ainge is not that dumb and the only one certifiably dumber is McHale (and I loved both those guys as players). Danny should stand pat with Al and Gerald and the #5. Who doesn’t need veterans but our guys are rounding into just that. KG is great, terrific, and would be good with Pierce but the price is too high for the years you can command him. Chad Ford has to fill paper and Ainge/McHale are good for that.

It takes a 5 spot to win and while a PP and KG duo would go a long way in the east, I can’t see dealing the future for a couple of years even if we get #17.

There are a couple of things that may have shifted the cards on trading AJ. a)His comments about not needing Oden (which I’m sure was a plug for a healthy Perk), b). AJ has had only 1 injury free year and maybe they’ll deal him if they think they can get another 15/10 guy in this draft. I can’t see the Celtics not getting back the #7. I could see them giving back Minny’s #1 in the future but rumors were that Wally and KG weren’t “meshing” which is why I’d prefer to give them Wally over Ratliff’s expiring contract.

Besides, KG has never listed Boston as one of the acceptable places to play. So, I don’t think he’ll change that decision now.

I wish Danny would make his draft list and leave the country for several months> If he makes a deal that sends AL somewhere else, he will go down in celtics history as the worst GM this team has ever had.

Maybe Al has shown us all he has and that will not be enough for to bring us to the next level. Make the trade, roll the dice. It would be a blast to see what they could do together. PP and KG. 20 years is to long.

I will disown the celts org if ainge pulls off this trade

I don’t care how good KG is, Al Jefferson is a celtic for life.

Al Jefferson if anyone recalls gave KG all he could handle(and vice versa) , so what makes you think KG is the only answer inside for boston??

How about pierce and jefferson in a healthy season, how about give that a chance??

If ainge does this trade, he will pay for it. You get 31 year old guy who i mean is in no way old , prob another good 5 or 6 years left, but then u are giving up a guy who hasn’t even scratched his potential, plus a #5 pick that could be real good.

Take this rumor down jeff, it will never happen, i will pray that it won’t

1. AL improved every day the last 3 months..he’s got tons more…btw-KG is not that much better right now…in 2 yrs?I’ll take AL..now PP for KG??now ya got something

I love Big Al and I hate to argue for trading him, but the fact is that KG is a known quantity- a first ballot hall of famer, while Al appears to have a bright future after 3 years. Pervis Ellison looked like he was heading for a HOF career after his 3rd year too- I hope Al is better, but you never know. As long as you don’t have to include the #5, you have to make this trade. Teaming Pierce and KG puts you in the hunt for a title while continuing to develop young talent (Rondo/West/Gomes/Allen/#5/Perkins/etc.)- Make the move.

if this trade happens.. minnesota should get
al jefferson, the #5 pick, theo ratliff and gerald green.
 boston gets a perennial 20pt 10reb a night guy. and with a shooter like pierce kg probably goes for 20pt 10rb 5assists.
ratliff is nothing but an expiring contract. jefferson will have a tough time playing in the loaded western conference..
green is just that. green.
the #5 pick will probably get traded away before the draft because thats how mchale rolls.

im from minnesota. but i want to see KG win. and boston does not look like a good fit. I remember the great celtic teams and i like what the celtics are doing and i dont think they should mess with it just for a big name superstar.

but would pp and pierce really be that good together? i dont think so. sure they would be in the east. they wouldnt beat the spurs, mavs, suns, the bulls are getting better.
 celtics dont need KG. and i say that because they will not win with KG. The bulls and the Suns need KG.

[quote=“Triboy” I will disown the celts org if ainge pulls off this trade

I don’t care how good KG is, Al Jefferson is a celtic for life.

Al Jefferson if anyone recalls gave KG all he could handle(and vice versa) , so what makes you think KG is the only answer inside for boston??

How about pierce and jefferson in a healthy season, how about give that a chance??

If ainge does this trade, he will pay for it. You get 31 year old guy who i mean is in no way old , prob another good 5 or 6 years left, but then u are giving up a guy who hasn’t even scratched his potential, plus a #5 pick that could be real good.

Take this rumor down jeff, it will never happen, i will pray that it won’t[/quote]

Yes. I will possibly shoot danny ainge in the throat.

As I see it, the Celts have 3 basic options: 1) Sell the future to get a player like KG, 2) Stand pat and sign some low-end veterans 3) Trade PP while he has value left. When looked at objectively, I don’t see any of these options leading to championship contention.

I really feel the lottery (and Ainge’s complete reliance on the results) has left this franchise in an non-win situation, both short and long term. KG with or without AL does not mean anything more than contention for 3rd or 4th best team in the East.

We are going to draft Green; we wont give up Al; PP and GG may be the price to pay for KG; drafting Green would make our GG expendable. We cannot give up Al; We gave up Billups once and we are still paying the price. Ainge will not risk another Billups-esque blunder. PP is expendable for Garnet. I would give up some other assets, sans Rondo, if the trade is going to go. Then with the second draft we have to go for another 5 or 1, depending on whether West goes or stays. At the end of the day, we are not going to win #17 because of a trade or 2.
Already it was posted that with KG we would get into playoffs and once there, “anything may happen”. Sure, we could even beat Spurs 4 straight, under that assumption. We are years away from #17; so until a team of excellent players grow and mature together first, and then we compliment them with a few veterans, to fill up a hole or two, and/or strenghten our bench. We are going to be middle of the pack team. That will lighten my stress, so be it.

Would we hang the Eastern Championship banner?

I wouldn’t make that trade either Jeff.

minnesota just traded away a mike james. they still have foye hudson davis mccants wright jaric and hassell.
 there is no way they make a trade with boston unless boston unloads a big man.

and yeah, who said:
with KG we would get into playoffs and once there, “anything may happen”

the NBA is one of the most predictable sports of all time. KG and PP have no chance to win a title. NONE.

It depends on who is available in the draft. In this draft you could very well get a big guy with just as bright of a future as Al Jefferson even at number five. If Atlanta takes a flyer on Yi and Memphis takes Conley, a distinct possibility, the Celtics are looking at Hortford at the number five slot. Is Hortford as good as Al? Maybe maybe not. One thing is for sure, Kevin Garnett and Hortford are a heck of a lot better than Al Jefferson and Al Hortford.

According to the trade checker, Theo, Jefferson, Scal, Telfair and Green for Garnett works. If you then either swap picks or have Minnisota take their number one back plus say next year’s number 1, the Celtics could draft a replacement for Jefferson. A team of Perkins, Garnett, Pierce, Rondo, and Wally, with say Hortford, Allen, and West off the bench would be a contender in the east. If Allen comes back healthy and develops and they get a good rookie, they would be better than acontender and would be that way for four or five years. But hey, why would anyone want that. Lets stand pat and win another 30 or 35 games this year with the team we have. Or better yet draft Conley and give away Pierce and win 15 or 20 games. Yeah, that sounds good.

One other thing. No way would Minnisota trade Garnett for Pierce. It would get them nothing. The idea woudl be to get salary cap room, young players and draft picks to rebuild a decent team. Having Pierce and his huge contract does none of that.

I would take 1-4 years of near-championship contention with KG over a long career of Big Al (who most likely will never be as good as KG) mired in mediocrity (see all of PP’s career up to now). To me this is like the Heat/Lakers deal. The Heat knew they had only a short window with Shaq and dealt two young up and comers in Butler and Odom. They got their championship and now are probably in trouble for it(and would be much better off if they had Odom and Butler instead of Shaq now).

Shaq was traded for Butler , Odom, Grant and a first round pick.

In order to trade for K.G. we need to trade AL, theo’s contract, Geralad Green, and the 5th pick in the draft?????

“I would take 1-4 years of near-championship contention with KG over a long career of Big Al (who most likely will never be as good as KG) mired in mediocrity (see all of PP’s career up to now).”

I agree completely. If you don’t make the move, you can stand pat and win maybe 40 games next year and hope that Pierce doesn’t go Vince Carter and hope that Al stays healthy and turns into the player he was the second half of last year. Or, you can give Pierce away for ten cents on the dollar and blow the team up and be lucky to win 25 games next year. Why not make the trade and take a shot with a hall of famer who has never had the chance to play with an all-star like Pierce? Who are the best players Garnett has ever played with? Wally? Rickey Davis? You have to be kidding me. It is a tribute to Garnett that he has won as many games as he has in Minnisota.

Jefferson averaged 14.5ppg 10.5rpg 1apg against mn
KG averaged 33pts 13rpg 10apg against boston

against
spurs, mavs, heat, nuggets, pistons, suns, bulls, cavs, jazz and rockets
Kg averaged 22.5ppg 13.3rpg
AJ averaged 14.5pts 10.8rpg

AJ is a long way from being KG

 Jefferson averaged 14.5ppg 10.5rpg 1apg against mn
KG averaged 33pts 13rpg 10apg against boston

against
spurs, mavs, heat, nuggets, pistons, suns, bulls, cavs, jazz and rockets
Kg averaged 22.5ppg 13.3rpg
AJ averaged 14.5pts 10.8rpg

AJ is a long way from being KG

How old is big Al?

Who are the best players Garnett has ever played with? Wally? Rickey Davis? You have to be kidding me.

KG played with Cassell and Sprewell and los the conference finals to the lakers cuz cassell was out

it takes 2 stars, some good big men, and a couple role players to win championships

duncan ginobili parker / horry finley barry
jordan pippen / kukoc, kerr, rodman
kobe, shaq / harper fox horry
shaq d wade / j will payton walker posey
billups wallace prince hamilton wallace

garnett pierce? ahhhh wally? no. dont see it

Jeff, you pay $6.50 for a cup of coffee? :-\

On a more serious note, the one reason I would make the trade is simply because somewhere in the back of my mind I really, really, really, don’t want Garnett tearing it up in the East on some other team next season and going places, while we middle around as a second tier team, with Jefferson and Pierce and what-have-you. And the disaster of the season that just past is completely responsible for me and many Celtic fans to think this way, because we want good news so bad that we’ve thrown out most of our patience and good judgement regards talent and potential. You can’t blame us. Management has been feeding us that horse manure for eons now.

Flexi, JohnCK I completely agree. Why not take a stab at success? Jefferson is comprabable to Zach Randolph with a good head on his shoulders. KG gives us a shot at actually being a factor again. I don’t care if that messes up year 21 of the rebuilding process.

 I do not make that trade a guy who is 31 for a 22 year old guy making one tenth the salary. While Garnett is good he has never elevated his team in the playoffs. That is usually a sign of greatness. See MJ vs Celtics. While MJ LOST he did elevate his team.
 I trade PP way before a big low post scorer. Big guys who can play down low are not easy to find wing players are very easy to find. That being said Minny would not take PP so no trade with Minny.

witkin

 AJ is a lot younger but pierce doesnt want to sit and wait for Aj to grow and become a factor..
 AJ will take 2-3 more years before he is a dominant force IF he ever becomes one. KG is still dominant so if Boston wants to win. NOW is the time.
 else they can wait for AJ. pierce will get sick of playing and he will be out of town and youll be talking about AJ and wondering why you didnt trade and have KG and PP

I don’t know why everyone has decided that Garnett is where Shaq was in 2005. Shaq was 34 years old in 2005. Garnett is 30. Shaq spent several years of his career overweight and started to pay for it in his mid 30s. Garnett has always been a work out animal. None of Garnetts numbers were down in any significant way last year. The guy is a 22 PPG and 11 or 12 RPG machine. While he has played a lot of regular season minutes, he hasn’t played the long playoff minutes the way Tim Duncan and Shaq have. Where did this idea come from that he is somehow on his way down? Do you guys realize Garnett is nearly the exact same age as Tim Duncan and has only played if you count the post season about 5000 more minutes than Duncan? Would you guys object to giving up Al Jefferson for Duncan? If not for Duncan why not for Garnett? Garnett is younger, takes better care of his body and has more in him than Shaq had in 2005.

If Ainge makes this deal, I’m pretty much finished with the team as long as he and Doc are there. If it happens, this will go down as a worse trade than all of the other bad Ainge trades combined. We finally get a franchise low post player and we trade him away for an aging loser, already past his prime. Giving up a guy who’ll be a cornerstone for a decade for a few years of creeping above mediocrity is beyond ludicrous.

What a joke this organization will have become if they make this trade.

Simply put, I hope to hell Danny doesnt swing this deal. If he does, I will officially become a Portland fan.

Anyway, it seems to me that the two picks for the Celtics at #5 should be either Conley or Hawes. Either one will fill a need, and both will be solid NBA players.

I would think Ainge would love Hawes. If he had a thing for Swift, why not Hawes? And this has nothing to do with the color of their skin. I think Hawes is a more accomplished Swift at this point. Why would Ainge not go crazy for that, especially considering the Celts need a 5?

Please, no Jeff Green. Maybe I will be proved wrong and Green will be a 6 foot 9 inch version of Dwayne Wade, but at this point, he looks like a blaaahhhh player (but, he does everything pretty well) the Celtics dont need. But seriously, at this point I wouldnt be surprised if Green is picked mainly because Rivers is familiar with him. That, and the braindoctor approves.

 Garnett is 31 born 5/19/1976. PP will be 30 10/13/1977 around the start of the season. Together they do not make us true contenders. They also will cost around 40 million for 2 players. Not a whole lot of cap flexibilty.
 That is a short term I would not use the word fix but situation. That will hurt this team for years to come. With what those 2 players make we cannot get any help but at the MLE. You want to go to playoffs only to lose in the first. Garnett is good for doing that in his career. I would rather take the chance with Al who has 10-12 years not 3-4 with what will soon be diminshing skills.

if we dont go after a big name like KG. we might as well trade pierce. AJ isnt getting us to the big game anytime soon. Sure he will be great in the future (we hope) but by then pierce is out the door.
 Minnesota is in the same position.

So to everyone saying that we dont want KG, you might as well be saying trade PP because we wont win with one star.
 minnesota never did it, kobe cant do it, AI got close but didnt do it.
 Pierce isnt going to do it either
 so get KG or trade Pierce for more young talent and try to build a formidable team in the years to come

KG’s 3rd year in the NBA
G GS MIN FG% FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS
82 82 39.3 .491 .738 1.7 1.8 2.3 2.7 2.7 6.9 9.6 4.2 18.5
Al’s 3rd year in the NBA
G GS MIN FG% FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS
69 60 33.6 .514 .681 0.7 1.5 2.0 3.4 3.4 7.5 10.9 1.3 16.0

Also keep in mind by the end on his 3rd season KG had started in 202 games and averaged 30 min a game in his first year and nearly 40 a game after that. Al has started in 68 games so far and averaged 14 and 18 min in his first two years. The only way I trade Al for KG is if the Celtics doctors truely believe that the next bad ankle sprain Big Al suffers will permanently affect his game. As great as KG is, I just don’t see this team being a championship quality team. I would offer Minn GG, Rondo, #5, their future #1 back, and Ratliff. If they don’t bite then we move on to the next available star. Kobe anyone?

 I would trade PP which I have said on more than 1 occassion. I have a great deal of respect for PP but as a fan you have to do what is best for the organization.

The people on here just kill me. Garnett is statistically the most efficient player in the league. His numbers haven’t moved an inch in the last five years. The guy works hard and no one plays harder. He is a dead lock hall of famer with at least four prime years remaining on his career and maybe a couple of more than that. Yet trading a young Al Jefferson who has played on one playoff team as a rookie, who has never had even half a year as good as one of Garnett’s average years is the dumbest trade ever? If Al Jefferson were going to be an elite player, he would be one by now. I think the last half of last year is about what you are going to get from Al. That is a solid 20 10 guy who can command a double team down low. A very good player yes, but not Kevin Garnett. Not an MVP type player. That is assuming his glass ankles don’t return, which is no gaurentee.

kg is good-we all can agree; but just how good for how long? big al is not as good, maybe never as good, maybe as good someday. but he is ours. we developed him. he has been loyal.i like loyalty to your good troops. my god, i can’t stand doc as a coach and they’re loyal to him- al has shown us much more and deserves something. maybe if we keep our studs we can attract an old vet like willie naulls or emmette bryant. those types are out there get them.

“Garnett is that one guy that (paired with Pierce) would vault this team right into the top 4 teams in the East.”

Wow! Garnett can me us, at best, the sixth best team in the league! I’m positively swooning!

Why, it is certainly worth it to trade our only certifiable young star, or star to be, for a guy in his early thirties, making over twenty million dollars a year, and who has never won anything that amounts to a hill of beans in this world. I mean, he could get us to…the second round of the Eastern Conference playoffs!

ok. boston do you want KG? haha..

 i say minnesota and boston never make another trade together. because now we are stuck with a guy called BLIZZ? and Ricky I want to shoot at the wrong basket for a triple double davis. Pretty sad to think we had to throw in Justin reed in order to get Juwan howard. and when marcus banks was a HAD TO HAVE player ( according to Mcchale)

 i dont want to trade with boston anymore.

 garnett to the bulls for deng gordon and a pick

quick topic change.. rumor has it the SOX are after Texiera and minnesota might try to get Lowell from boston.
 you guys like that trade?
  im from MN and im hesitant about lowell

Al Jefferson is not a certifyable young star. He has never done anything over a season that would make him a star. He is a certifyable young prospect. A certifyable young star is Amare Staudamire or Dwayne Wade or LaBron James. You guys are talking like Al Jefferson is one of those players. He is not. He is not even close. He is a very nice looking PF with a good nose for the ball, great hands and good back to the basket moves. But he has still never had a star season. I can’t believe how people are over valueing the guy. I am sorry, but it is not like he is a young Kevin McHale or something. He is more like a young Elton Brand and that is if the Celtics are lucky.

I would just feel sorry for KG having to play with Paul-hog.

I’m not sure what context you are referring to. I suppose I could have added the hope part of the paragraph whereby we potentially if certain things happen then unmentioned good things might follow.

And, no, we don’t have to think championship with that group. That group isn’t better than San Antonio, Phoenix or Dallas. If every single thing fell our way we might conceivably get out of the East, but that is asking a lot.

 I definetly take Texiera if the Sox could get him. Excellent hitter and fielder. Move Youk back to third and we have a better offensive and defensive team. Lowell having a good year but has wrist problem at the moment. No word on how bad!

 AL is a stud,100% on way to being a star,the 2nd best post player in the NBA…a GREAT rebounder….and the topper is that his skills are the hardest to find…he stays

Did somebody just say AJ is the 2nd best post player in the NBA?

do your post players include
duncan?
amare?
garnett?
dirk?
bosh?
yao?
boozer?
dwight howard?
just to name a few

just wondering who you are comparing him with.

John CK, you’re the one who is killing me. This trade is not as simple as “Jefferson for Garnett.” As we’ve been hearing these last few weeks, there is demand for our expiring in Ratliff, some of our young players, and the 5th pick in the draft. We can easily flip some of those parts for a good player and still have some resources left. Also, those players would not cost as much as Garnett would. Pierce and Garnett are going to cost 40 million a year – where is our bench going to come from? The only team where you can pay two players that much and still be successful is if it’s Kobe and Shaq, two of the best players in the league.

You also ignore the mileage on Garnett. The fact is Garnett is treading into unknown territory here, since he was the first to come out as a high schooler and have a long career. It’s not as simple as just saying, “Well Garnett is 31 and therefore he still has 3-4 prime years left.” I don’t agree with the comparison to Duncan because Duncan has been known to pace his game through the course of the season. Garnett doesn’t seem capable of playing at a lower level. The guy is just way too intense and he’s got the burden of playing with inferior teammates. Duncan and the Spurs can win a game without him putting up big numbers or overexerting himself trying to score 30 a game.

And comparing Garnett to Shaq is ridiculous. Shaq was the most dominant player in the last decade and had been to 5 finals and won 3 of them. Garnett lost in the first round every year except for one, when he was eliminated by Shaq. Garnett is a good player but Shaq was head and shoulders above everyone except Duncan.

All this being said, I’d have to consider the deal if we didn’t give up so much. But since this deal blows any other deal out of the water, why should we be putting in such a high bid so early? Like I said before, change the pick to the future T-Wolves pick (more valuable to them than it is to us) and substitute Wally instead of Ratliff (with Garnett on the team we need to win now and Ratliff’s expiring will free up room to sign people).

Even then, Garnett’s huge deal gives me pause. The problem is not that he makes 20 , but the fact that management already gave 20 to Pierce when he didn’t deserve it. Pierce and Garnett are not going to win by themselves, and by giving up the farm to get Garnett we won’t have much flexibility to get those valuable veteran role players you need to win a championship. Keep in mind that the Spurs, Suns and Mavs are not exactly going anywhere. They will all still be good during this 3 year window we’d be trying to “win it all.”

If GG is traded, it will be because Jeff Green is coming in; I would not see any other reason for trading away the player that is supposed to sub for PP in due course. Forget about Wally; his productive years are way past; he is just a walking physical dissability waiting to happen again. We have no other consistent productive scorer besides Al and PP; so If, and only if Gerald goes, I have to assume that a like potential scorer would come in in his place. I dont see any other player having GG’s potential not named Jeff Green. Its just a hunch; Im not in the guessing business and thats why I have never gotten into what the Celtics will do in this draft except to suggest that we need a 5 and a 1; But then Ive said that for 4 years in a rown now. lol

wbones1

 i dont get to watch the sox much, but how much does lowell use the monster?
 he looks like a guy who would play pepper with that wall all day long and im worried that if we go get him that he wouldnt be as good. that park looks like it fits his swing

Al Jefferson will no doubt be a 20/10 guy one day, but he will never be a Kevin Garnett. No way will Minny let us get our cake and eat it too with Garnett. They will demand a good young player(Jefferson) a draft pick, and some crap on the side to make the money work. This isn’t Jermaine O’neal, its not Amare its KEVIN GARNETT. If it it takes Jefferson get them to swap picks to make it work. People will actually want to start playing here. We need that Celtic spirit here in Boston again.

I’d do it. At least we’d stop having to hear all the talk about “we have to surround Pierce with talent” and instead could move on to “we have to surround Garnett with talent.”

This franchise is such a joke, that in some sense, either move (trade or not) will only marginally impact the franchise over the next ten years. If we trade for Garnett, we get 3-5 years of Pierce/Garnett making us the 4th-6th team in the east. Little-to-no improvement through the draft. The nightly spectacle of Rondo pretending to be an NBA starting point guard.

If we don’t make the trade, then we flounder for 3-5 years with “Pierce is a superstar in this league, no really!” type thinking from the top, which will result in a number of marginal moves to improve the team by trading our nearly value-less young players for nearly value-less old players. Al Jefferson at best gives us something similar to Garnett’s contributions (albeit w/out the manly intensity and tragic self-absorbtion) and we end up the 6-9th team in the east, little improvement through the draft, ugly salary situation.

In both cases, we wind up in 3-5 years with a crap team that yet again has nowhere to go but down.

The only long term solution for this team is to trade Pierce, of course, but knowing that they will never do this, I suppose one has to weigh the combined value of Al Jefferson five years from now and the #5 pick five years from now against the value of Kevin Garnett over the same period. If you assume Jefferson continues to improve and can stay injury free (both HUGE assumptions) and that the #5 pick will not be squandered by Dummy Ainge (another HUGE assumption) then the decision is clear. If, however, you have no faith in Ainge and view Al Jefferson with a healthy dose of skepticism, it might make sense to make the Garnett move and waste three-five years playing make-pretend with our hope for a championship. Having read this board for several years now, that’s a commitment most fans seem ready to make.

In either case, the Celtics won’t even sniff a championship run until well into the next decade.

I would like to add the caveat – if you think Rondo is the Celtics “point guard of the future” and that “a healthy Paul Pierce gets us 43 wins” and that “Danny Ainge is a draft genius” then my comments will likely not make much sense to you.

i’m talking offensive post play…Dirk,KG,Amare are all better players but not as good on the block….Howard has no post game…Bosh is a elbow guy…Shaq is always hurt…post up,back to basket in post ala the McHale days,AL is very good and getting better

the shaq/kg comparison I made was only to show how a team can get a supa-star with a short window and get into contention quickly and its worth it even if it will cost you later. Sticking with the status quo and adding “pieces” around Al and PP is a long haul process and most likely won’t get you a team any better than a KG-PP tandem, and when it does PP will likely be over the hill. I agree with a lot of what John CK is saying, and that many people are overvaluing Big Al (using TUP logic based on last season’s performance-for a 23 win team mind you) and undervalueing KG who is a top 5 player unless you throw out stats entirely.

To Byrdman. While I agree that Al could turn into KG, comparing their 3rd year numbers and using that as the basis for your arguement is silly. Here is a comparison of Al Jefferson’s 3rd year numbers vs. Pervis Ellison’s 3rd year numbers. How can you prove that Al will turn out to be KG and not Pervis Ellison? You can’t. You know what KG is. A first ballot Hall of Famer. If the C’s don’t have to give up the #5, this is a no-brainer.

                           G GS MPG REB APG BPG PPG
Pervis Ellison 66 64 38.0 11.20 2.9 2.68 20.0
Al Jefferson 69 60 33.6 11.0 1.3 1.97 16.0

Al’s game can be compared to Mchale’s; KG has another style altogether; dont compare apples to oranges and that does not mean that apples are better than oranges or vice versa, but to the contrary.

Master Po; Im so glad you made it back alive. Gotta get back to you when I get some free time.

While I doubt very seriously that this trade as stated will happen, for sure there has been conversation between McHale and Ainge. I am real freakin’ nervous and this is why. Last year he almost traded Al in a trade for Iverson. The Ricky Davis trade was not exactly equal when it comes to talent either.So Ainge is a little kuku to begin with. If Ainge trades for Garnett and gives up Al Jefferson in any senario , I will explode. I am a fan for over 50 years and if he blows this summer the way Chris Wallace blew us off the map few years back, I am done with this team. In my mind’s eye I have a gun and it is pointed at Ainge’s throat. Hell no! Garnett and Pierce without Jefferson won’t even get us an Eastern Final. That team would be fair at best. Yesterday I felt pretty good. Today I am sick as a dog. Screw you Chad Ford! Now I have to worry about this crap the rest of the week, the rest of the month, who knows maybe even much longer. Why? Why? Why do we C’s fans always have to live thru these excrutiating moments? As I said, 50 years green. Danny does this trade and I am out. out. out!

Too much for KG. No Thanks. Keep #5, and move Theo for someone else, maybe even Camby like Brick says. This way you secure a core of youngs in Rondo, Al, Green, West, #5, etc…while also having a solid vet, and PP. You can compete now, and be set-up for the future.

Well Gustusias, you can start following the Minnesota Celtics once the trade goes down ;)

Kevin Garnett with the exception of Kobe Bryant is the best player available (if he is in fact available). Jermaine O’Neal isn’t half the defensive player KG is, nor is he as passionate (except when attacking fans of course). Shawn Marion is amazing and versatile but we don’t have the system in place to take advantage of his talents. Getting KG would be great, the catch is we’re looking at a 3-4 year window of both them still being in their prime. The Truth has had some issues staying on the court, and KG has been in the league for 12 years so we’d have to come to grips that we could possibly be sacrificing 10 years for 4. I can deal with Big Al going, we can resign him when becomes a FA, I can deal with the Ratliff contract, I can even deal with Gerald Green, I do however think we should hold onto the #5 pick, and possibly acquire the #7 pick as well. If we get KG, with Pierce, Perk, Rondo, West, Gomes, Wally, Powe, and then can pick up either a potential star in Yi, an energetic stopper in Noah, or a jack of all trades aka Jeff Green. Sign a veteran who know will sign cheap to play with KG/Pierce, but at least have some future growth beyond PP and KG’s time with us. I remember what happened when the Big 3 retired, and then Len died, Reggie died, Michael Smith blew, Acie Earl blew, Eric Montross blew, we traded Chauncey…see where I’m going here.

Rondohondo says: “its been proven tim and time again that the way you build a championship to in the NBA is through the draft.”

Really? Prove it.

I’ll bet the only example you can produce is San Antonio. Every other championship team of the past 15 years (the age of the modern lottery system) was built at least 80% through trades and free agency. Even San Antonio only has 3 players on the roster who were actually drafted by the team (admittedly, they are the team’s 3 best players, so I’ll grant that one example).

Who else? The Lakers? Traded for Shaq and Kobe, signed all the role guys like Horry and Ron Harper through free agency.
Detroit? Traded for Billups, Wallace, Wallace and RIP.
Chicago? Traded for or signed Pippen, Cartwright, Horace Grant, Harper, Rodman.
Houston? Traded for or signed Vernon Maxwell, Kenny Smith and Otis Thorpe (championship 1), then traded Thorpe for Clyde Drexler (championship 2).

Most championship teams of the modern era have maybe 1 key player that was originally drafted by the team. Even the old-thyme Celtics, Sixers and Lakers were constructed mostly through trades, like Parish, DJ, Walton, Wedman, Tiny Archibald on the Cs; Dr. J, Moses and Bobby Jones on the Sixers; Kareen and Byron Scott on the Lakers.

Even more importantly, look at all the teams that are PERENIALLY in the lottery, draft after draft after draft. The fact is, more teams with high draft picks end up picking high year after year after year until they finally smarten up and make trades.

Building a chamionship through the draft is the exception, not the rule.

That being said, I hate the idea of this trade as stated.

3-4 years of Garnett’s 20/10 traded for 10 years of Jefferson’s 16/11. Sure, go ahead. Toss in the #5 and a future first-rounder just for colour. And in 2010 we’ll be last this year’s Nets.

I think Jeff’s opening line in the article pretty much explains why Celticsblog.com has hookabuzz.com as a sponsor…LOL.
(All in fun, how can you not love fellow dedicated Celtics fans)

Reading the posts the last couple of days really makes me wonder what some of you are seeing in Jefferson. Granted, I do love this kid and really believe this guy is a household name (to nba fans, where ever they are) by the middle of next season, but I feel a number of you guys just look at his stats (as a guy who technically is going into his 3rd season), or his injury ridden 2nd season, or the fact that he had an appendectomy through no fault of his own.

Without him, we wouldnt have won ANY games the last couple of months. Not that we won a lot, but when you consider who was left on the team at that point, that says a lot. Do you all forget having Ray out there for 15 min a game most nights. How about having Perk rumble around on one leg. Maybe you remember Green running around like a chicken with his head cut off. Sure Green had some nice scoring games, but he was nowhere near a consistent player. Those guys were playing because 3 of our top 6-7 players were injured, and those aren’t the bottom 3 of the 6 or 7. Jefferson, while being the lone ranger, carried this team. Imagine him with healthy players.

As for AJ’s skill set…The guy was born with that post game, show me one guy that learned that stuff throughout his career, then mention how long it took for player x to get to that point. In the last couple of months we saw Jefferson being more assertive down low, as well as, beginning to trust his outside shot. Now imagine him using that tool and that attitude from the beginning of next season (don’t just take his stats and act like he wont get better.) It will only make him more difficult to gaurd on the offensive end. Along with his committment to going after boards, his growing post passing skills, and recognition of the coming double team (sometimes the guy was triple teamed!!!), and you do have one of the best up and coming post men in the game. As for the defensive end, he can only get better at it (I hope.)

As for the notion that this guy has glass ankles…he’s pretty much on record as saying that he didnt like to have his ankles taped and that was the main cause of his ankle injury issues. Not to mention he knew something was wrong (while no else believed him, outside of DA), and it was later proved that he had bone fragments floating around.

So as a devoted Celtics fan, I’m simply asking for some of you guys to take a step break, breath, then breath again, and then give some thought to giving up AJ. Not worth it.

Yes, this team needs KG or a KG lite. But only if you can hold onto PP and AJ (and I’d like to keep Rondo, but thats another post for another day).

cos, I agree completely.

I hope AJ keeps improving, Perk has a break out year, TA returns at 100%, Gomes returns with a killer 3 point shot, Rondo fixes his shot’s mechanics and Green grows a handle and a brain..

But for me the real question is.. do we trade PP for more youth? My brain says yes, my heart says no.. This question boils down to; can we win IT in the next 2-3 years with PP or not? if not then trade PP asap. I dont really know the answer to this.. its a tough decision imo.

I think its possible to convince a GM with a team that is almost a contender to give up some of its best youth and a few 1st round picks for PP.

00dc2, you may agree with me or not (no offense ment), I just want some posters here to take a step back and breath.

As for your other comments, while I do hope Perk has a break out year, in my opinion, he a big concern. He’s been here for 4 years and while he does rebound well, and doesnt get pushed around, he still picks up ticky tack fouls, and still doesnt have a legit low post move. Im definately not counting that flat, shot put style hook. Maybe thats due to the abhorant coaching staff, most likely the case, its still the truth.

I don’t see TA returning to 100% till late next season, and Gomes is an undersized 4, and not an overly athletic 3 (and Im a PC alum.) Rondo can definately fix his shot mechanics but its not going to be a one year task, it will most likely take a bit longer. I’d much rather see him show big time improvement in finishing at the rim and bringing up his FT% a few notches.

As for Green, a handle, a brain, and some defensive awareness would go a long way, but like Jeff, I see him as bait.

My other point, one that wasn’t clarified enough in my previous post is that the Celtics could use KG, but don’t absolutely need KG. We need a big who can defend with the best of them. Yes KG can do that, but the cost, in my opinion is too high. Either Minn accepts something smaller or we find the next big who can help on defense and spaces the floor more for AJ and PP (and Rondo.) Perk has no outside shot so players can sag off him and double AJ. While he’s shown that he can recognize it and take advantage of it with a quick pass to Perk, a big with an outside/midrange shot would take better advantage of Jefferson’s skills.

failed to respond to your other point about PP. Yes, I do think we can win in the next 2-3 years with PP. But thats saying we also have PP, and a normal learning curve for Rondo, he can already defend so thats a major plus, and with a better outside shot he can put even more pressure on the opposing point than he already does with his quickness.

But the thing is this team needs a quality big who can defend, space the floor, and has a consistent outside/midrange shot to create room for AJ. As long as they can get that, without giving up the farm (i.e. Jefferson), they can really compete. I just don’t think it has to be Garnett. I’m still waiting to hear Gasol’s name being on the block along with rumors of the Celtics.

I really believe there will be a lot of teams shuffling the deck this offseason, and I don’t believe we have to set the bar/price so high. Getting KG is not the only way to compete for a title, nor is it a lock that getting KG would put us in the Finals.

Cousin It, the key thing is you have to find your best players through the draft, and then make moves to surround them with talent. This is because the elite players that you need to win a championship very rarely become available. The best players on those championship teams were all drafted: Jordan and Pippen, Olajuwon, Bird and McHale, Magic and Worthy. The only exception was the Pistons, but that was a fluke, a historical anomaly.

The Lakers are the exception because they used their location and history to lure Shaquille O’Neal and then later Kobe. This is not an advantage most teams have. It’s not like the Spurs could have convinced any potential free agents to sign with them before their recent run of success. Sure, your argument that free agency and trades are what actually build contenders makes a lot of sense if you’re one of those teams lucky enough to be in a location Shaq wants to live in. So far, Shaq has chosen to go to Miami and Los Angeles. Think that’s 100% for basketball reasons?

This is the same plan the Lakers had just up to a couple years ago. Remember they were clearing up that space for Yao, until he re-signed? They arrogantly assume future top free agents will want to sign with them and that they will never have to fully rebuild through the draft by struggling a few seasons.

Now Kobe is demanding out just like he demanded out of the Hornets when he was drafted (history repeats itself). And what two teams were on his short list? Big surprise – New York and Chicago!

Ainge said the Celts had to build through the draft and he was right. The problem is he didn’t fully rebuild and we’ve gotten Jefferson as the only true “star” out of four years of drafts and non-lottery picks. Still, we are in a position to make a move now if we want. That’s not a bad place to be, but the next moves are critical.

When I saw the Celtics beat San Antonio for the first time in many years and I wondered how did we finally do it. We have a player who faked out Duncan and scored on him it was Al Jefferson doing this and he just turned 22 years old. With Jeff Greene entering the draft I wonder if someone has made him his choice? Keep our 2 draft picks and see who we get or try to move down a little with the #5 pick and up some with the 32 pick. Draft 2 big men or 1 big man and Conley. If Perk has foot trouble again we have just Al for rebounding big men.

I have to take issue with what Triboy16 said at the top that Al gave KG all he could handle. KG had 2 triple doubles this year against the C’s!! Not to mention Al had 20 (in 50 min.) and 9 points against Minny. How is that giving KG all he could handle? Jefferson is a nice player but he’s no KG now nor ever. This trade is a dramatic upgrade.

I am afraid I like this trade. Sure, I’d much prefer to get KG and pair him up along side Big Al. There is the dream scenario. Perhaps we should start thinking of ideas Minny might accept to leave PP and AJ out of the equation instead of arguing about who’s better, and who might down the road be better. I think we can all agree taht without a doubt, right at the moment, KG is a better player. I’m not going to guess the future. It’s why I don’t gamble.

Reports out of Minnesota have The Suns and Wolves discussing a Amare for Kg trade straight up.

Amare has had a knee injury but he is 7 years younger. If this trade happens it would be terrible for the east because thats two super stars staying in the west.

Garnett and Foye to Atlanta for the #3 pick, #11 pick
Sheldon Williams/Josh Smith and Cash

Minnesota gets Sheldon Williams, Josh Smith and gets the #3, #7, #11 picks in the draft..

obnoxiousmime, first of all, Pippen was NOT drafted by the Bulls—he was acquired in a draft day trade. Ditto McHale. But since they were acquired via trades on draft day, I’ll ignore that.

The bigger issue is that you are proving my point but, for some reason, you don’t even realize it. When that poster said it has been proven “time and time again” that chamionship teams are built through the lottery, he was way off. It’s occasional lottery luck mixed with a TON of savvy trades and signings.

Let’s look at the examples I stated above again. Only one or two key player from each of those teams was originally drafted by the team they won with. Even in the cases where the drafted players were the most important to their teams — Jordan, Olajuwan — that does not change the fact that most of the other pieces on those teams came via trade or free agency. And it’s THOSE moves that made the difference. Houston wouldn’t win it’s first championship without kenny smith and thorpe or it’s second without drexler. The Bulls wouldn’t have won their second string of championship without Rodman. L.A. and Miami certainly wouldn’t win without Shaq. All via trades or free agency. Even San Antonio, who got their big 3 through the draft, would have been hard pressed to win anything without guys like Bowen, Michael Finley, Robert Horry. All via trades or free agency.

On the flip side, look at the Clippers. I live in L.A. and watched them go back to the lottery year after year after year, hoping for something to finally click. But it wan’t until they finally started trading and signing free agents that they won a few games.

If you just keep hoping for draft picks to blossom, you end up like Atlanta. Or the Celtics. Or Seattle.

Do you know which 2 teams have the most players on their roster that were originially drafted by the team they play for? Boston and Seattle. 2 of the 5 worst teams in the league last year. Two of the teams furthest from championships.

I’m not saying you don’t want high draft picks. High draft picks are great. If you are lucky enough to get a top pick in a year when a guy like Greg Oden is coming out, you’re golden. But in the age of the modern lottery system, championships do not come through the draft. You cannnot build a chamionship team by dipping into the lottery 5 years in a row. You need to make trades and sign free agents, too.

Todays sports talk shows have really hyped up the KG trade with boston. but if boston makes the trade then all boston has is KG and pierce and minnesota makes off with a ton of young players and expiring contracts.

The bigger talk was Amare and maybe Diaw for KG. amare is around for another 5 years and minnesota would be ridiculous if they did not accept a trade of this magnitude. Sorry Boston. but if we can get Amare who is 7 years younger and Diaw (this gives us a young power forward who will dominate AJ all day and opens up a window of a young and exciting team (foye, mccants smith diaw and amare).. Id take that in a heartbeat over expiring contracts and AJ.

its interesting to see how many teams are trying to make a run at KG. if a trade happens with boston it will happen B4 the draft (9days) because minnesota wants that pick. if it doesnt happen before then. i dont think boston has any chance to land KG and boston will be stuck with what they have.

so in short. IF KG GOES TO THE SUNS.. Boston will regret it because pheonix will be the new power house and minnesota will be loaded with young talent that is inevitably better then what boston has

Hey, Meatballs. The T-Wolves won’t do this deal. People pay good money to see KG play. Will they pay to see Al Jefferson? NO! He may have potential, but Boston isn’t winning. They’ll win with KG and PP. No one, not Boston or Phoenix, will pull the trigger on a deal this big. Minny knows what it has in KG and can build around him and hope for the best. Amare has a bad knee and Al is a tease. It’s fun to talk about but it ain’t happening.

Phoenix is nuts if they make that trade. They are one flagrant foul (resulting in suspensions) from being in the Finals and dominating the Cavs like SA did.

minnesota knows what it has in KG? come on now..
 we have 0 playoff apperances in the last 3 years and we are in salary cap hell. look at the contracts we have. hudson, jaric, hassell.. just terrible contracts.. the one piece we can trade is KG.. Dont get me wrong KG sells tickets. But A.I sells tickets. Vince Carter sells tickets, T-mac sells tickets, Shaq sells tickets.
All of whom have been traded. You dont win championships with one super star, KG is 31 and will opt out after this year.

If KG is not traded this offseason its probably a good bet that he will be traded during the season.

So, that is why we trade garnett.. and believe it or not.. the fans here are sick of mcchale and we actually want to see Kg go and win a title.. thats why he wont go to boston.. he wont be able to win there..
 im sick of this ainge and mcchale being buddy buddy just because they were teammates..