Ainge Confirms KG Talks

Jefferson probably will never be comparable to how good Garnett WAS! But he will soon be as good as Garnett will be! He will be better than Garnett withen a few years. In several years (maybe sooner if he opts out) Garnett will be gone. Garnett would now be a big gamble that we can win this year or next. If not it would be the worst trade the Celtics have ever made.

And common sense prevails. Good start to the day.

This has been the story all summer for Ainge..i doubt anything gets done.

This is a real bet, i mean nobody knows if AJ,GG and Rondo will be really that good to ever take us to the EC finals, where,instead, KG and PP would likely take us… i think that if we could retain the 5 pick i would do that trade and try to win now

  The salary cap was put in place to protect the owners from their own stupidity. Its really tough to trade amax salary guy, get value, and give up $21MM in slaries, without gutting your team.
  The chemistry that this team has apparently developed may start paying dividends. Playing together for a few years creates ateam better than ust trading pieces.
  I’m really trying to spin this so the young guys and the 5 pick remain here.
  Why does Jeff Green remind me of AWalker 2007? A 6-9 tweener with good passing skills, high BBall IQ, and questionable outside shot. If we take him I hope he can defend.

Every championship Celtics team that I recall (and I’m old enough to remember) had an organization developed core of prime time players. Russell, the Davises (Sam and KC,) Heinsohn, Cousy, Havlicek, Cowens, White, Bird and McHale (I’m sure that I’m forgetting others) were all Red Auerbach signees. Red’s draft day trades for Bill Russell and Robert Parrish (along with McHale – both for Joe Barry Carroll) were organization making moves. Red managed to finagle a trade for a #2 pick that turned out to be the late Len Bias while the team was still a (fading) championship contender. Red rarely made splashy moves for veterans (I can’t remember any off the top of my head) but knew when to acquire helpful role playing veterans (e.g. Paul Silas).

Curtis Rowe and Sidney Wicks (to illustrate the folly of acquiring veterans mostly for their symbolic value) were the Vin Bakers of the 70’s who badly bridged those few years between the Havlicek and Bird led champions.

Even if it defers bona fide title contention for another few years (probably much sooner than the win now advocates think), the correct move is to keep building, filling in with veterans more to plug holes than to make splashy moves (i.e. acquiring KG) mainly to sell tickets and go through the motions of courting a less than champion playoff team although not truly ready to challenge for another title. If Ainge is pursuing a veteran at too high a cost in terms of young talent to appease Paul Pierce, then I don’t want Pierce.

If Pierce can get another close to top 10 pick in a strong draft year (after all he was selected 10th in his year) and a decent young veteran or future first round pick, Ainge should pull the trigger. For example, Joe Johnson (welcome back) and Atlanta’s #11 pick along with the kept #5 would mature together with the current crop of probable keepers (Jefferson and Rondo to start).

What can you get for #5? Dwayne Wade was the best player recently selected at that spot. Bird, Cowens and Jo Jo White (if I remember correctly) were all selected at about #6 with Bird essentially an astute draft and follow type pick as a draft eligible sophomore (after transferring from IU to Indiana State) by Auerbach.

Ainge shouldn’t trade down from #5. He should consider trading Pierce for another relatively high lottery pick this year. Two players from among Horford, Wright, Brewer and Conley (depending on who you like most among who is left after the first 4 picks) will be there at #5. Brewer is my choice (and almost still sure to be there at #5) because of his defense and makeup. If Conley gets picked by Atlanta at #3, Horford or Wright will drop to them. With a second pick in the 8-11 range, Ainge should have a chance to choose whoever remains eligible (still on the draft board) where he gets his second high pick. At least one (if not two) from among Green, Li (less of a gamble if dropping to there), Noah and Thornton ought to still be available. Brewer could even drop to the Celtics a few picks later if Conley is gone at #3 and Wright or Horford slide to #5.

My gut feeling is that, unless a truly favorable trade for another aging veteran (even for Kevin Garnett) materializes, then Ainge should go “all in” and attempt to get that second premium 2007 top 10 lottery type draft pick for Pierce and an expiring contract (to match salaries) and a young veteran or future #1 to get the kind of salary cap relief that the franchise has badly managed in the past by repeatedly training for the Vin Bakers of the world. This isn’t to compare Garnett to Baker but trading for a player like him (even if he is HOF caliber) only works if the team is already on the verge of championship contention and is only one player away from being a mainstay in the finals.

The fans have been frustrated for almost 22 years of futility but this kind of back to the future plan is what it will take to break this pattern. Despite their youth, the current Celtics youngsters include no top 10 draft types (except for Jefferson and Pierce). Adding two more of those premium type selections and getting more salary cap relief is a much smarter move.

The early price for acquiring KG was no surprise. It’s common practice to test the trade waters in a “one-sided” initial approach. That tactic costs nothing and could work if a team is desperate enough (ala the Raef/Walker trade).

I don’t favor trading Pierce to acquire another lottery pick unless we were to land Johnson and the 11th pick. Even then it would take MORE than a 6th pick, more like an 8th and 22 second pick to pry Pierce loose. Having traded the 5th pick for Johnson we’d be left with the 8th, 11th, 22nd and 32nd pick in a strong draft and Ainge could be left to fashion more draft magic. I’m sure other non-core players would be involved and Ratliff’s expiring contract might also play in the mix.

Such a block-buster trade would mean another rebuilding year for the Celtic’s but we’d have some additional upgraded playing chips to work with. This would indeed represent a BOLD move on the part of the Celtic’s but with the “head-doctor’s” guidance, how could we possibly fail???

( psst Jeff. Mike James was traded for Juwan Howard )

The Celtics are desperate. Desperate teams NEVER make good deals. Worse, the departure of Wallace leaves no one in the organization to bring Ainge to his senses except idiot Rivers.

If they get KG it will cost them the farm. Even if they manage to keep the #5 pick, every other good young player will be stripped from the roster, starting with Jefferson (who they couldn’t afford to resign if they bring in KG).

If anyone things that Pierce and Garnett together makes the Celtics instant contenders, they are dreaming. Pierce isn’t that good, and Garnett won’t be here that long. In a year or two they will have to sign-and-trade KG for prospects who aren’t nearly as good as they ones the traded away to get him. Meahwhile, Wyc Grousbeck’s binky Pierce will be 33, and he will have about as much trade value as Jerry Stackhouse.

This is definitely a John Y Brown situation. Boston no longer has a viable professional basketball franchise, and it’s simply a question of how long it will take for these buffoons to sell the team.

The ramifications of a Garnett trade are very simple: KG pulls $20 million per season. Therefore, even after we toss Ratliff back to the TWolves, we still cannot afford to resign Jefferson. Therefore, the alternatives are simple. Trade Jefferson whoever else might command a major paycheck for Garnett, or stay pat and resign AJ.

I suspect that the pick is the real bone of contention here, as we likely wouldn’t want to miss the chance to add a good player at what is essentially a long-term MLE contract. But then again, if we manage to draft Horford, I don’t think there will be a reason in Ainge’s mind to keep Jefferson ;)

Your brain will explode trying to figure that out. I dont have the time and patience to dwelve into that lunacy.

Goodluck Jeff 8)

lets make it simple….
Big Al = untouchable
if a team like the celtics who have every bargaining
chip known to man this offseason from ratliff to gomes
and west and green to 3 1st rnd picks in the next 2 drafts.
if we cant get a allstar with that then keep ainge
strictly to drafting. ex. telfair for #7 instead of gay or roy

Getting Horford would certainly not mean that Jefferson would have to be traded. They could work well together and it’s lunacy to trade away bigs when our own cupboard is so devoid of talented size.

The Celtics are desperate. Desperate teams NEVER make good deals. Worse, the departure of Wallace leaves no one in the organization to bring Ainge to his senses except idiot Rivers.

Its not only these guys but Brick, from an ownership point of view this means bums in seats and $$$ albeit in the short term and for once in a long damn time basketball in this city will be semi relivant again and that might be good enough for them at this stage.

I think they initially started out hoping to parlay a group of young talent into a Vet (plan A) , then last season happened and thought hell Oden and Durant are a possibility lets chase that dream (Plan B) . That fails . Hence the revert back to the original plan of going after a Vet. Obviously not this definate but i am pretty sure something like this went down ..

as of today where do we stand??
-we can plug in pick #5 and win 40 maybe?(unless Yi is Dirk then 50 )
-we can sell the farm,get KG,and win a couple rounds in east for 2-4yrs maybe??
-we can trade down a bit & pick up another vet with a lower pick(8-13)
-we can use #5 and Pierce and reshape everything
…of course what one wants to do and can do may differ but it seems the last option may be our best chance..time will tell

i would have done that deal if garrnett was 27

it would not be offered if he was 27….lol

Price wouldve been much higher and justified if that was the case.

Garnett has an opt out provision at the end of next year. Why do you think the Wolves are trying so hard to move him?

Why have only one disgruntled star (Pierce) holding the franchise hostage, when you can have two (KG and Pierce)?

Sure, they’ll sell a few more tickets if they bring in KG. The buzz will last until Christmas, when people start to figure out that KG, Pierce and the 7 dwarves is just “Timberwolves East,” barely capable of winning 40 games. And then, in a year or two, KG will be gone, traded for a bunch of expiring contracts and a prospect or two, like the deal that sent A. Walker to Miami, only messier.

I say make the trade – I love Al Jefferson as much as the next guy, but I would rather start winning than keeping my fingers crossed at the beginning of each season hoping that “this is the year” for our young talent to step up and win games.

Garnett’s numbers have been very consistent even at his “old age” and would be playing with the best player he’s been matched up with thus far in his career. Not to mention that he will be playing in the East.

Stay the Course.

No move is a good move and in this regard, trading away you house for Kevin Garnett is a bad deal.

This team is better off trading Pierce, and trying to bring in quality players who are in there mid 20’s.

Reason being is that you will already have your nucleus with Jefferson, Green, Rondo, West of young talents meshing together with more young talent and growing.

I agree with Brick, that this team can’t be so desperate that they blow this thing right out of the water.

I’m hoping Ainge is posturing and he has something up his sleeve, otherwise this franchise has lost me after I have defended them for years

I can’t take it anymore, it’s at the point where this team needs to stop jumping around like a bunch of little school girls and get there act together.

AL stays!!!!after that i’m open to just about anything but it better be good…#5 gets you a serious asset

If we think that Pierce and KG can’t get us a title then we better trade Pierce now.KG is the best chance for PP to win a title now:any other possible and credible trade won’t make us a title contender (no Marion or Lewis) unless AJ next year becomes Karl Malone…

trade Pierce for another top 12 pick and then draft thorton and hawes or green and noah or some combination of a scoring forward and a big man. You should get a decent player back for Pierce as well. eg thomas or gordon from chicago and then ttry to add a FA like Lewis. I really don’t want to gove up on jefferson or green just yet although it sure feels like green is on his way out, especially if they draft a forward like green, brewer or thornton

bobbyboy said:

“If we think that Pierce and KG can’t get us a title then we better trade Pierce now.KG is the best chance for PP to win a title now:any other possible and credible trade won’t make us a title contender (no Marion or Lewis) unless AJ next year becomes Karl Malone…”

Not really, because KG might be alot more expensive than the other alternatives, so the team you can put around KG and Pierce may not be as good as the team you could put around (for example) Pierce and Marion.

Pierce-Marion-Jefferson is probably a better team than KG-Pierce-Perkins.

But you’re right, they should be looking to trade Pierce and build around Jefferson, not trade Jefferson for 1-2 years of respectability with Pierce and some other veteran. After that brief fling, the franchise goes right back into the toilet.

Besides, you could give Doc Rivers 5 all-stars and he couldn’t win a playoff series against a good team with a competent coach.

You guys all say trade Pierce. Okay. If the rumors are true that Bryant wants out of LA, how about Pierce and the number 5 pick for Bryant and whatever else makes the salaries work? That is highway robbery I know, but what are the Lakers going to get for a disgruntled Bryant? Pheonix has shown no interest in parting with Staudamire. Bryant would never agree to take Garnett’s place in Minnisota. People say Chicago, but Pierce is a better player than Deng and Chicago can’t offer the number 5 pick in this draft. People talk about the Knicks but Pierce is a better player than anyone on the Knicks and again the Knicks don’t have the number 5 pick in this draft. In Pierce the Lakers would get an All-Star who is signed for 4 years and basically a poor man’s Kobe Bryant, they would then get a good young potentially all-star player in the draft. That together is better than Deng and Gorden or the entire Knicks roster. The Celtics could throw in a couple of other number 1s if they needed. The Celtics could then keep the beloved Jefferson. They would get a two year rental on Kobe and either let him go and use the cap space or if things worked out resign him and make a run with Kobe and Jefferson.

Might just be talk designed to keep Pierce happy that Ainge is ‘pusuing’ an all-star player to put at Pierce’s side. Ratliff’s contract grows more desirable every day (WW’s too), culminating at the trade deadline. I bet we stay the course, then consider better trade proposals after Christmas. IF we are more successful this year than last, the desperation that Brickowski alluded to will have diminished sowewhat as well.

Kobe Bryant has a no trade clause and would not agree to come to Boston, so he’s not worth discussing.

The Bryant deal that makes sense does not involve the Celtics. The deal would be Bryant to Chicago (where he says he’s willing to go), picks and prospects from Chicago to Minnesota and KG to the Lakers.
Chicago would be hard-pressed to find enough salary to send to the Wolves, but they could probably swing it with a resigned PJ Brown (with only the first year guaranteed) and a resigned Nocioni, plus Gordon and Tyrus Thomas. Alternatively, the Bulls could send Ben Wallace, Gordon and TT.

I don’t the Celtics are desparate. The fact is no one ever gets value for all-stars. The Lakers didn’t get value for Shaq, the 76ers didn’t get value for Iverson, Portland didn’t get value for Wallace. It just doesn’t happen. The salary cap prevents it from happening. What Minnisota wants for Garnett and what they get are going to be two different things. Especially if Bryant is actually on the market and with Pheonix being unwilling to pay the luxury tax. My guess is that if Boston did trade for Garnett, the Wolves would get either Jefferson or the number 5 but not both. Again, the Celtics could get a young big man with just as much upside as Jefferson who is not due for a second contract with the number 5 pick. If they could get Garnett and keep the number 5 pick, the deal makes sense.

One way to avoid the desperation is to draft Mike Conley and trade Pierce for player who is younger, who runs the floor and who defends.

Pierce for Caron Butler, Etan Thomas and #16 works for me. I would select Tiago Splitter or Rudy Fernandez with that pick.

Then you might have a 40 win team with a future, although you’d probably have to wait for a new coach to get that many wins.

Brick is on the right track by comparing total rosters and not Al vs KG. However, I disagree that PP/Marion/Al is a better nucleus than PP/KG for several reasons:

1) The first team needs a point guard, and I just do not think Rondo is anywhere near ready. I like his quickness and creativity; but, until he can make defenders respect his outside shot, all that is neutralized by a sagging defense. KG’s ability to control the offense from the high post makes your point guard problem go away. You could start Delonte as a shooting point guard and be fine.

2) The corollary to point #1 is that PP would be able to play on the post, where he has always been most effective. Remember, PP was at his best with Antoine outside delivering him the ball in the post with room to work. The difference now would be that instead of Toine’s erratic, incessant 3-point shots, you’d have KG’s reliable 15-18 footers keeping defenses honest.

3) KG anchors your interior defense in ways that Al cannot. KG is quicker on rotations, smarter with his body in contesting shots, and more commanding as a defensive “captain” orchestrating the movements of every other defensive player on the floor. Al is getting better at not fouling out; but, he has primarily done so by not being as aggressive defensively. This has left guys like Perk and Gomes out on an island with no help defense coming from the weak side. KG’s intelligent aggressiveness would help the other low post defenders (especially Perk) to be more assertive one-on-one defenders, knowing that help is right behind them.

Beyond those tangible differences, I do believe that other veterans will come here for the minimum or close to it in order to compete for a title with a PP/KG-led team. I will admit that without that happening, it would still be very difficult to win a title with the current roster afetr the trade. Still, I’d prefer that problem to trading PP and starting another 6-7 year process whose goal would be to wait around for the opportunity to get a “franchise” top of the draft type of player. Because, as much as I like Al as well, he is NOT that player. They don’t come around often, and it seems like we have a chance to get one here. I think the reported price is just posturing (just like Danny’s pretending that it’s not even close). But, I’d still do the deal at that price because I think these opportunities are very rare.

Brick that would be a 20 win team with a good shot at winning the lottery.

Why haven’t the veterans flocked to MN to play with KG? They did a few years ago (Cassell and Sprewell), but that ship has sailed, just like the Pierce ship has sailed.

Face reality. KG Pierce will never contend, not even in the Eastern Conference. Neither one is the player he was 3-4 years ago. Not enough tread left on the tires.

no kg deal- too much cap $, bad contract,i.e. out in 2 years. pp is more of a trading chip than al as far as a loss to the celts. we need more big men. one good thing danny has done is scouting yi. yi is such an unknown that danny scouting him is a metaphor for how he is prepared for this offseason. brick i know how much you love conley, but i think rondo is right there with him and a tink a serviceable vet or foreign pg is available on the cheap.

I agree that Pierce/KG will not get out of the East. Might win 45 games and create 2 weeks of excitement but not good enough to get to the finals. The window is only 2 years, with Jefferson the window is a decade. Pick Hortford or Conley and trade Pierce.

Yeah Brick that ship sailed. I guess that is why Garnett’s numbers have been so bad the last few years. The guy has just driven off a cliff. All of this “Garnett is past his prime” stuff is not supported by one piece of evidence. The guy has been a machine the last few years. Further, no one works harder than Garnett. Fat guys like Shaq loose it when they hit their mid 30s. In shape guys like Jordan and Malone stay good into their mid 30s. Garnett has four or five more years of 22 ppg and 11 rpg seasons left in him and probably three or four more productive years with limited minutes in the regular season after that.

Garnett hasnt sniffed the playoffs in 2 years. Shaq always makes the playoffs.

I know I know Garnett plays with losers but not making the playoffs for 2 straight years is telling.

My God Brick, you think that Pierce and Garnett would only win 40 wins in the east but that collection of garbage and spare parts you have us trading Pierce for would win 40? No way. That team would be awful. Splitter won’t play for at least a year. Caron Butler is about half of the player Pierce is. Etan Thomas averaged 6 points a game last year. He is no better than Perkins. Why don’t you just go all the way and hire ML Carr to coach that team?

The Celtics will have to give up Jefferson or the #5 to get Garnett.

Personally, I would rather give up the #5, because Jefferson is much more of a sure-thing right now.

Obviously, Pierce, Garnett, and Jefferson would cost a whole lot of money. But the owners should be willing to pay the luxury tax for a couple of years for a team to compete for a title.

Give up GG, the #5, salary, and give Minny their pick back next year. Is that enough to get Garnett? Maybe not, but I think that’s as high as the offer should go.

If Minn insists on AJ, let them keep Garnett finish in 10th place in the West and continue to languish in pergartory.

If Garnett is not traded in the offseason no doubt his name will come up again at the trading deadline with the asking price much lower.

“Give up GG, the #5, salary, and give Minny their pick back next year. Is that enough to get Garnett? Maybe not, but I think that’s as high as the offer should go.”

That would be a tremendous deal for the Celtics and that may be the best offer Minnisota gets. It all depends on Chicago. If Chicago is willing to give up Deng, then I think the Celtics are sunk, but I am not convinced that Paxon will do that. Also, Chicago might go for Kobe Bryant instead, in which case where does Garnett go?

Jeff said:
  that is interesting – I haven’t really done enough research into what the implications of the cap would be – I just figured the owners would almost have to accept a little luxury tax pain

Jefferson, Green, and Telfair are making 6.5 million combined next season. So we’ll be at about 65 million next season, which is not necessarily too bad.

Assume we choose to keep Jefferson, and toss them Perk, who makes 4.5 million. Then when Al is up for renewal, we will have a $74 million payroll with Garnett on the roster. West and Allen will also be up for extension at this point in time. Sure, Wally expires conveniently when the extensions are supposed to kick in, but we’ll be two feet in luxury tax land anyhow.

So sure, if the management is willing to pony up an eight-digit sum and bet it on the hope that Pierce and Garnett will not slide down the proverbial slope too quickly, more power to them. But I find this move a bit iffy to say the least.

Ainge is the only GM that McHale ever fleeced in a trade, so stay tuned.

I’d try and deal Pierce to the Lakers for Kwame Brown and Bynum, and the lakers 18 pick. Bynum could be re-packaged to a number of lottery teams looking for a center: Minny, Atlanta, Philly, and others. We’d end up with 3 1st round picks in a terrific draft, Kwame Brown in the last year of his contract, and lots of future cap room and promising young players, several who have been together for 3 years now.
  Those who say we should get more for Pierce should remember Bears and Bulls get rich, Pigs get slaughter

“Ainge is the only GM that McHale ever fleeced in a trade, so stay tuned.”

Yeah because Blunt Ricky and Marcus Banks are all hall of famers. Wally’s expiring contract is worth more than all three of those guys combined. That trade was at worst a push and probably slightly in Boston’s favor since having Blunt is like losing two or three decent players.

VT Bill,

I don’t think that would work under the cap. Pierce makes too much money. The lakers would have to put in more players to make the salary numbers work.

Why are people discussing trades as though we are in some kind of position of strength? We are the second to worst team in the league, people! We aren’t going to be able to hold anyone up for anything. If we want to make something significant happen, it will take Al AND the #5 pick. Everything else we throw in is garbage. (I happen to believe in GG, but not for at least another 3-4 years.) And trading Pierce, while a sensible long-term alternative, will not yield immediate results because the only teams that will take him are those in the hunt, which means the draft picks and players we get in return will be worth little. The only reason trading Pierce would help the Cs is by making US a perenially bad team so that OUR OWN draft picks would be high. That process isn’t 4-5 years; it’s more like 7-9 years unless we luck into a #1 pick during the right year again. And remember how losing this year and then losing the draft lottery felt? How would you like to live that nightmare for the next 7-9 years in a row? And for those who look at the Bulls as a model, remember that they’ve actually started this process over twice in the last 9 years. And now that they have “arrived” they are finally in position to do what? Oh, that’s right, aquire a bonafide franchise player through trade – the EXACT same thing we are (reportedly) being offered right now!

JohnCK said:

“My God Brick, you think that Pierce and Garnett would only win 40 wins in the east but that collection of garbage and spare parts you have us trading Pierce for would win 40? No way.”

I can’t construct a team that will win 40 games next year without completely destroying the team’s future, certainly not with this coach.

But I can construct a team that could win 55 games 2-3 years from now with a different coach, and continue to win 50 for a decade.

You pays your money and takes your choice. If you want to do another complete rebuild in 2 years, then go for KG.

It takes more than 2 players to win a championship. You need a really good starting 5. Getting Garnett will require at least Jefferson but I wouldn’t include the 5 pick or Gerald Green. You need other players to contribute. Even if you trade Jefferson you could still build for the future with #5, Green and Rondo. Just don’t strip the team.

That is the problem Bick. No one ever gets value for all-stars so when you trade Pierce you end up with a 30 win team to show for it. Clearly, Jefferson and the number 5 is too much for Garnett. But, just Jefferson is not. The Celtics have a good shot at getting a big man who will be just as productive as Jefferson and will not be due for a second contract with the fifth pick. If the Celtics could get Garnett and then replace Jefferson through the draft why not do it? I still like the idea of offering Pierce and the number 5 for Bryant, but there is no gaurentee the Lakers will trade Bryant.

I’m with Brick on moving Pierce, and have been been since last year. I have no issues in them keep PP, but so long as they do not give up Al or the #5 to placate him. Build for the future, cuz I really don’t think it’s that far away.

Moving Pierce to Chicago or LA would be tops on my list. Pairing Bynum up with Jefferson would be darn nice.

I just don’t give up Al Jefferson. To do that, I have to really be blown away by a perspective deal. Gutting the team for Garnett is not that kind of deal. Think about the ramifications of such a trade. We’d have $50 million dedicated to 3 players. Pierce, Garnett, and Wally. We’d have 3 players and a bunch of newbies and scrubs. We’d be #2 or #3 in the East, and would be 50/50 in our 2nd round match-up.

How bad would we be defensively?

Do you think Ainge is just throwing this out there for the fans. Just to show people he is out there to make a deal even though he has no intension of doing it. Why would he confirm anything something strange going on here.

“One way to avoid the desperation is to draft Mike Conley and trade Pierce for player who is younger, who runs the floor and who defends.”

Brick, enough with the Logan’s Run obesssion with Pierce’s age.

Mike

“But I can construct a team that could win 55 games 2-3 years from now with a different coach, and continue to win 50 for a decade.”

So…why aren’t you GMing and NBA franchise, Brickowski? Crossing your fingers and hoping to get lucky in the draft is hardly a guarantee of 55 wins in 2-3 years.

Mike

Ainge is the only GM that McHale ever fleeced in a trade, so stay tuned.

The Minesotta trade was a prime example of a wash. The fact that Davis and Blount are starters in Minesotta is just an indication of how bad their team actually is. Those two guys didn’t make them any better.

That’s even before taking into account that Blount in a Celtics uniform and Blount in a Wolves uniform are really not the same player.

I can’t construct a team that will win 40 games next year without completely destroying the team’s future, certainly not with this coach.

I am sure you will be pleased to know that the same coach scored 47 wins just 2 seasons ago. Following your logic, a different coach back then would have made us EC finalists, if not title contenders.

“Does 32 year old Mitch Richmond for 25 year old Chris Webber come to mind? Or even, 30 year old Rod Strickland for 23 year old Rasheed Wallace?”

Neither Richmond nor Strickland come close to KG in individual skill or influence on the entire team on the floor. Bad comparisons. A better analogy would be what the Heat did to get Shaq. And that turned out pretty well.

Stay the Course!!

Why do you think the place has had a decent attendance the past couple of years. It’s because the youngsters stimulate fast pasce basketball but picture PP & Garnet playing slow down basketball.
It’s a another sellout like the Joe Johnson trade for a possible two year player and our future is shot.

 8) 8)

If they don’t trade Pierce now they get nothing for him. He’s a great player, but he’s coming off a stress fracture and he exacerbated the problem when he tried to come back fat and out of shape, and then had to be shut down again.

The Celtics have ridden that pony too hard and it’s time for some fresh horses.

Jefferson is going to be an all star within a year or two. Rondo will be one of the best PGs in a couple more years. Those two and the #5 pick should be off the table. Any other deal, including one involving Pierce, should be explored. I tend to think Pierce should be moved now for draft picks and expiring contracts. That will bring us more young talent and free up some money for a couple of key vets down the line. Stay the course, Danny. Keep the youngsters together…just bring in a coach that can teach them to play defense!

You have to ask yourself what is better for the franchise. Would we be better off in adding a Camby/Lewis, or signing someone like McDyss, Joe Smith, Mgloire, etc… as a stop gap, while keeping our assets and players, as opposed to tradng the farm for some fools gold.

I’m for keeping our important assets, and maybe adding a spare part.

Brick, I’ve been telling my friends for 2 years now that Pierce looks fatty and out of shape.

Wait a minute Bric.
  Pierce was perfectly able to play last spring. he was intentionally held out because the season had become meaningless. But he wasn’t out of shape, and never has been. He might be better off weighing 10-15 lbs less, but he’s always in great shape.
   That being said I’d move him for an opportunuty to rebuild, but honestly believe he’s not going anywhere, because the Celtics are too afraid of another year of irrelevence, yet have no fear of mediocrity.

   But lets not compare Garnetts impact to Shaq’s. keep in mind KG has won no more than PP. maybe he’s the greatest 2nd fiddle to ever play the game, and both he and Pierce need a lead dog.

If Rondo and Jefferson are that good, why on earth did the team only win 23 games last year? If that is all Doc’s fault, how did the team win 47 games in 2005? If Doc is that bad, that means the 47 win team should have gone to the finals. If the trade were for someone like Zach Randolph or Rashard Lewis, I would agree with people who are comparing this deal to the Joe Johnson deal. But this is Kevin Garnett.

Garnett’s not coming to the Celtics. Kobe’s not coming to the Celtics. That’s a good thing imho. I for one wouldn’t want to see that kind of talent laid to waste by Doc the genius.

Pierce for Caron and a pick is a decent trade but I doubt the C’s will move Pierce unless it is a more lopsided deal.

We’re not going to get $20mil worth of basketball out of Pierce but I doubt anything we’d get back in a trade would produce more, even considering his age. Freeing up salary isn’t that imperative either given Theo. I would just stand pat on Paul.

Pierce was out of shape when he came back from the stress fracture— he has admitted that in print.

Jeff said:
Kevin Garnett, Troy Hudson, and Mike James
for
Gerald Green, Delonte West, Wally Sczcerbiak, Theo Ratliff, and 2 future unprotected 1st round draft picks

None of us are GMs, and I have pipe dreams just like the next guy, but do you really think even McHale could get away with that mess of a trade? Taking back Wally Sczcerbiak?

One of the (very) few shrewd moved McHale has ever made is dumping off Wally’s horrible contract, horrible knees and horrible defense.

Gerald? Please, I don’t think anyone outside the 128 loop is overly impressed with him. He’s 22 and looks absolutely lost on the court. It’s not just that he hasn’t proven anything yet—he hasn’t shown even a glimmer of “getting it.”

And those picks? Well, if McHale were on the Cs, they would most likely be VERY late first rounders.

McHale ain’t looking to erase his one good move with yet another bad one. It would be the straw that breaks Minnesota fans’ backs, cementing him foever as a figure of scorn and hatred in the Twin Cities. He’d be fired on the spot.

I like the 3 way being mentioned of Pierce to the Lakers, and Kobe to the Bulls. My only issue with such a trade is that Gordon and Tyrus Thomas are not enough.

BTW, there is talk about a Jamison for Marion deal, which would make some sense for both teams. I bring that up because I want to draft at #5 and keep AJ.

The cost to team and fan morale of trading Al, Gerald or Rondo away and having them turn into all stars elsewhere would exceed anything we would get for that gamble. Draft, develop, hold – stay with that and soon you’ve got home grown veterans. Much better than Rashard Lewis or other rent-a-veterans. If Pierce wants out and says so he should be respected. But if he doesn’t he should be respected too. He was immature a few years ago but has been a very good mature pro the last two years. I believe that KG is headed for the Bulls. I also read Chad Ford’s pro forma draft and if all those other teams want Yi Jian Lin maybe Danny knows something. I trust your drafting Danny. Not so much your trading. Stick to what you are good at. And, by the way, does anyone know what Chris Wallace brings to the table? Memphis’ gain is our bigger gain if you ask me.

I have to agree with Brick on just about every point. Get Garnett and in 2-3 years we are back in the toilet (actually, probably a nastier toilet than we are in now). I think the fact that we don’t know Yi’s true age makes him a huge gamble (sorry he’s not Dirk either — doesn’t have the range). We need a real point guard (sorry Rondo fans, but a starting point guard needs a shot) and Conley is just one of those players that will make everyone around him better. Jefferson will score 25 a game if he gets the ball in the right spots.

Forgot to mention — Conley also makes Boston a very attractive place for Greg Oden. That pay dividends down the road.

*That MAY pay dividends down the road.

Again, I’ll say it. Forget Garnett, this draft is stacked.
Trade Pierce to Atlanta for their 3rd and 11th pick.

I want Brewer, Horford and Green (or Thornton). Then use the Pierce money and Theo’s expired contract to sign Gilbert Arenas next year.

Boom goes the dynamite

ATL is waaaayyyyyy under the cap

check it out – http://www.nbadraft.net/2006stateofthecapatlanta001.asp

no? am i missing something?

Keep BigAL, Keep the 5th pick, Fire Doc now (better sooner than later).

Conley can’t shoot either, so why would you trade Rondo, whom you now know, for the same player, whom you don’t? Furthermore, that would mean trading an asset, and wasting an asset (the #5 pick) for something you already have. Conley is not Chris Paul or Deron Williams. He’s a nice player, but we don’t need him in this draft.

I’d really consider the AK47 deal, although he is owed $63 mill over 4. That’s alot of cash, and therefore I think Wally and a first might be much. He’s talented, but who is going to pay for his 8 & 4 last year, plus his contract? They will need space to sign Deron in a couple of years, & that’s when Wally is off the books.

NBADraft.net says we’re taking Yi.

I hate Ben Gorden. He is just a slightly bigger version of Telfair in that he is a shoot first guard who can’t shoot. Of Chicago’s young players, he is the worst of the bunch. I would take Deng or even Heinrich or Thomas before I took Gorden. Any trade involving Pierce for Gorden is a an absolute disaster for Boston.

I hate Ben Gorden. He is just a slightly bigger version of Telfair in that he is a shoot first guard who can’t shoot. Of Chicago’s young players, he is the worst of the bunch. I would take Deng or even Heinrich or Thomas before I took Gorden.

Fair enough, this Ben Gorden character sucks. But Ben GordON CAN shoot.

But I’m sure you’re one of the types with the green koolaid mustache who really thinks Gerald Green has a good stroke!

IF ANYONE THINK SENDING AL JEFFERSON WITH THE 5 PICK WEST, TELLFAIR, AND RATLIFF IS SICK AND NEED AN SHRINK. WE WANT TO WIN AND THE ONLY WAY THAT COULD HAPPEN IF WE KEEP BIG AL AND GET GARNETT. SEND THE 5 PICK GREEN, TELLFAIR AND THEO TO MINN. AN LINE UP WITH GARNETT, AL, PIERCE WALLY, AND A VETERAN PG WOULD MAKE AN BIG STATEMENT IN THE NBA. HAVE ALLEN, RONDO, PERKINS, GOMES, SCAL, AND POWE. THE BENCH WOULD NEED TO GET STRONGER IN SCORING MAYBE THE HIGH SECOND ROUND PICK WOULD HELP.

Are the Cavs really that freakin’ good? Heck no! Player for player, we have a competitive team.

This is my big issue with a lot of posters here: You completely disregard defense.

The Cavs are one of the best defensive(and rebounding) teams in the league. The Celtics are one of the worst. Yet that doesn’t register with anybody as a potential difference between the teams.

It’d serve the team a lot better if they didn’t worry so much about position and get some guys in that can actually defend. Someone to guard the basket and protect Al’s matador act would be a good place to start.

Come on people. Garnett for some nice pieces and prospects? What have the Celtics won with this group? Is Ainge going to continue to hang his hat on potential? Al Jefferson and parts for Garnett? Garnett puts butts in seats. None of the Celtic parts do that. Do the Celtics want a chance to win with Pierce? Then this is your deal. He’ll be retired before Jefferson reaches his potential. Garnett has five good years left and the Celtics would be able to pay him the most if they obtain him. This deal is interesting for the T-Wolves as they are getting younger (Foye, McCants, Smith) and this could help them rebuild. Granted they haven’t won with Garnett, but they haven’t had him surrounded with a Pierce. I don’t think the T-Wolves are dealing Garnett as they’ve had him this long and they want to continue to try and win with him, but specific trade talk means he’s possibly being shopped.

With the glaring exception of the Pistons a few years ago, every team that has won the championship, or even made it to the finas, has had a special, game-changing player. PP is a fine, fine basketball player, but he isn’t that kind of player. Big Al has the potential to be a fine basketball player, but he isn’t a ‘special’ player, either. KG is that kind of player. It’s no surprise that the one year that KG had a decent supporting caset, he made it to the Western Conference finals. KG with Pierce would be a potentially lethal combination.

I’m not saying to do the deal. It depends what the deal is, the long term financial implications, etc. But to categorically say that Jefferson is untouchable, when you’re talking about a sure-fire Hall of fame player still in the prime of his career, i don’t understand it.

Brick said:

The Celtics are desperate. Desperate teams NEVER make good deals. Worse, the departure of Wallace leaves no one in the organization to bring Ainge to his senses except idiot Rivers.

Can you please explain exactly what Biggie ever did here?
We don’t even have to bring up Vinny Baker and where was he to bring Pitino “to his senses” while occupying the “G.M.” chair?
I’m not exactly shedding a tear over Wallace going to Memphis.

DinoRadjaLives said:
  Jeff’s trade idea works

For the Celtics, yes. For the Timberwolves, no. Stop dreaming. Not happening.

MBurke, good catch. I see no reason to start lamenting the loss of Wallace. A lot of people are using the excuse that he was “forced” to make horrible trades by Gaston and/or Pitino. Pure B.S. If you take the title and the salary, you assume the responsibility.

Wallace sucks. Period.

Fair enough, this Ben Gorden character sucks. But Ben GordON CAN shoot.

But I’m sure you’re one of the types with the green koolaid mustache who really thinks Gerald Green has a good stroke! "

Since when is guy who is a career 43% shooter a guy who can shoot? He also turns the ball over almost as much as he gets assists and he is 6 foot 3 and a complete defensive liablity against bigger 2 guards, which is nearly every two guard in the league. Good thing you can spell because you sure don’t know anything about basketball.

Last year he shot 45.5, 41 from 3, 86% from the line. Gordon’s 14th in the entire NBA in pts/40min this past season.

Al Jefferson is a complete defensive liability against bigger 4s, too, but you’ll take it considering the offense he brings. Of course I can wait until Jefferson leads a team in scoring that wins more than a dozen games to make a better comparison.

Not that this was about Gordon vs. Jefferson, my point is that Gordon is quite good and your comparison of him to Telfair already exposed you as a dimwit, if the spelling didn’t.

Bullsblogger, Ben Gordon has a career 41% field goal percentage. Gerald’s is 43%. According to nba.com, but what do they know?

Those figures aren’t even correct, Sheesh. And now I feel duped because you made me look it up a second time.

And what’s an acceptable figure? like I said, last season he was over 45. And looking beyond standard FG, his TS% was 57.2, Gerald’s was 52.1. And there’s more to it than straight percentages, something to be said about carrying the scoring load for a 49 win team as opposed to season-long garbage time season where Gerald actually regressed (in terms of PER, anyway). If it were just about shooting percentages Brent Barry would be the best player in the NBA.

And while he’s short, Gordon logged heavy minutes on the BEST (statistically) defensive team in the league. He’s not nearly as bad as you’d think. Gerald still doesn’t even know where he is on the court much of the time. So maybe you’re right, you at least won’t have to worry about him demanding a big contract. :P

The problem with this trade is that you can’t compare the value straight up. KG would likely view this as a slight improvement to his current situation, and therefore would be very pissed off by this trade. It is very unlikely he could win a title here, and he almost certainly would leave in two years. He could go wherever he chose and have a great shot at a ring.

On the other hand, Al is happy to be here, wants to be held accountable, and could be kept indefinitely.

Ben Gordon can shoot, he just can’t do consistently. He’s 3 for 17 far too often. Furthermore, I have to agree that he is a tweener, and suspect defensively. He’s a better player than Gerald Green, although I think GG has the upside to be better down the road. Who knows if that happens though.

BTW, Gordon is going to get at least 5 years and $50 million. At least. No thanks.

Al is a 20 / 10 guy for ten years. Forget giving him up for a 31 year old, $25 million dollar KG.

The Chinese Point Guard… can you say Yi’s Okajima? :o

I’m not even saying the C’s should want Gordon as a player (like I said, they need defense), I just felt the need to defend his honor when compared to Telfair or Green.

I don’t get why other star guards are allowed to have bad games, but when Ben has a bad game he’s labled ‘streaky’.

I won’t bring it up anymore on a Celtics site until he gets picked on again. In turn, I will fess up and admit bias to the point where I believe Gerald Green will be out of the league in a couple years.

Well to respond to MBurke15, Chris Wallace begged them to take Tony Parker over Joe Forte, but they didn’t listen to him.

All I can say is, strap on your seatbelts, because this Celtics plane is headed for a messy crash, and it’s going to get alot worse before it gets better.

If any of these reports are to be believed, they are planning to trade their two most exciting young prospects (Jefferson and Green) and a high lottery pick for a 31 year-old star who is entereing the downside of his career (remember KG is an old 31, having been in the league 13 years)and who doesn’t want to be here, in order to pacify another 30 year old player who is on the downside of his career and who ought to be traded (except that he’s the owner’s favorite player so you can forget good sense). So when they barely win 40 games with the Pierce-Garnet duo, and when Garnett says “I’m opting out” at the end of this year, just remember that you heard it here first.

If you care about the Celtics, I’d suggest taking a long vacation in Tibet (or maybe Mars) and not coming back until these bozos have sold the team to someone with a shred of intelligence. I hope they lose their shirts.

Brick, they wouldn’t deal for Garnett without negotiating away that opt-out clause and knowing he ‘wants’ to be in Boston.

No, the sky is not falling. Danny is just driving the price up for the 5th pick, as he should be.

bullsblogger said:

“Brick, they wouldn’t deal for Garnett without negotiating away that opt-out clause and knowing he ‘wants’ to be in Boston.”

That’s what a rational ownership would do, but not these bozos. Besides, we all know that Garnett does not want to be in Boston. He either wants to stay in MN or be dealt to a contender like the Bulls.

No, these bozos would rather mortgage the future for one year of ticket sales, and they would PREFER Garnett to opt out so they can avoid paying luxury tax in 2008-2009. They’re stupid, mercenary and desperate.

If Ainge gives up Jefferson, Green and the #5 that’ll be too much for KG. If he can hold back Green and/or the #5, I don’t think it’s that crazy to think Pierce/KG/Green 0r #5 would have a better chance to win a title in the next 3 years than Pierce/Al/Green and #5 would 3 to 6 years from now.

The more I read Brickowski, the more I start expecting him to don a jumpsuit and chase after Paul Pierce with a raygun because he thinks PP’s palm gem is glowing.

Mike

The thought of Ainge trading AJ makes me nauseous. Wyc, fire Ainge immediately, please.

Brick – You are really negative today. I mean most of your posts always seem to be bashing Danny, ownership, etc. but today just seems extra negative. I understand your reasoning, I may not agree with it, but understand it. Anyways, lighten up! It’s not going to be as bad as you make it out to be. But, keep posting, albeit negative, often informative!

Well, the negativity started when they brought Rivers back. That’s when I told them to cancel my tickets.

Then every rumor I hear, whether it’s who they plan to draft, or what trades they are contemplating, is 180 degrees from what I think they ought to be doing.

So what’s there to be positive about? I don’t see even the faintest glimmer of hope.

Well Brick – I really do believe that we are better off now (player wise) than we were when O’Brien jumped ship. More chips, as Danny likes to say. Rumors are rumors. You know that ony 1% usually end up coming true. Danny has been solid at drafting and with the 5th pick, we should be able to land someone special. Now if he trades the pick, then that’s another story.

I don’t think the pick will be traded. I think we’ll use the pick on Horford, Yi, or Brewer. I know you love Conley and he is definitely a stud point guard. I won’t compare him to Chris Paul though. Not yet. It doesn’t look like they are going to draft Conley, but IF they did, what would your next move be? I would assume trading Rondo would be one of them, right?

Replace Rivers
Draft Conley
Trade Rondo to Atlanta for #11
(or, trade Ratliff and Rondo to Denver for Marcus Camby)
Select Tiago Splitter with #11
Trade Pierce. Here are six scenarios:

1. Pierce to Washington for Caron Butler, Brendan Haywood and #16
2. Pierce and Szczerbiak to Detroit for Ben Wallace, Tayshaun Prince and #15.
3. Pierce to Detroit for Rasheed Wallace
4. Pierce to Utah for Kirilenko and #25
5. Pierce to the Lakers for Kwame Brown, Bynum, filler and #19
6. Pierce to Chicago for Ben Gordon and Tyrus Thomas

In every case, these Pierce trades bring either younger players or much shorter contracts.

In #2 I meant Rashhed, not Ben.

Trading Jefferson period for KG would be a blunder, and I think anyone who is honest with themselves will admit that much. Bringing back Rivers is highly questionable, and if they do indeed trade their most promising young players for a vet like KG, then bringing Rivers back is officially certifiably absurd. The only rational reason for bringing him back is that he is a good coach for keeping the moral up with the young guys as they find their feet. So, they are the only arguable reason for keeping Doc around. I would like to believe Danny will do the right thing, but I (and most others) did not see the trade for Telfair coming, so I know anything is possible. Picking at 5 is a crap shoot, but at least you keep the farm. But chances are Ainge and Rivers will make their decisions based upon short term self-preservation. By the way, Wyc basically inherited his fortune, right? Not a shrewd wheeler and dealer like Cuban, unfortunately. And why all the love for Paul Pierce? Let us not forget he signed for millions and millions.

Shaq is lazy. he was older then Garnett was when he got traded to Miami. And he led the Heat to a title.(well, Dwayne Wade and the refs helped as well) We have an opportunity to get one of the all-time great big men, in the prime of his career, without getting rid of our best player. And there’s nothing but negativity from these boards.

I’m not saying we make the trade – it depends on the specifics of the deal. But if we have to trade Al Jefferson to get a chance at the Finals, we take it. Potential is all well and good, but this franchise is supposed to be about winning. Garnett and Pierce would complement each other well. And they still have time left in their prime

tn celtic, you can be sure it’s wyc and not danny in favor of this one. i’m guessing danny hopes he gets outbid by another team. otherwise i see al goin bye bye.

i think everyone knows already but w/o that telfair trade that was so horrible there would be know chance at garnett here. i don’t want the trade but danny has given us options.

Brickowski- “Pierce isn’t that good” and Conley, Caron Butler, Etan Thomas, and a 16th pick make us a 40win team?? The wizards had 41 wins this year with gilbert and jamison(not a fan of both).

Some of that stuff is wayyyy out there.

So after we trade Pierce for lesser talent and shorter contracts, then what? Wait around on the draft again and cheer against our team? Go after the big free agents like Vince Carter?

I just don’t see why we can’t significantly improve this team while keeping Pierce & Jefferson. We certainly have enough bullets to get one of the many talented players on the market right now.

IMO, Ainge’s biggest problem is that he can’t identify solid, cheap vet role players to put around our core. Ainge needs to find guys like Matt Barnes & Chuck Hayes who can come in cheap and solidify our D while cutting the pt of guys the who are out their making rookie mistakes and missing rotations.

We have a few guys who I think can be reliable, but we need a couple more.
AL/Perk/Pierce/West/Rondo can all be solid contributors to 17, what we need to add is a wily, athletic pf/c who can D up and rebound (Camby?, Noah?) and defensive specialist at wing who won’t make rookie mistakes and can hit the outside shot (Granger?, Ariza?). If we just give PP, AJ, & RR some solid role players, they can take the extremely soft East.

Winning breeds winning and lotto teams stay in the lotto. There is no need to continue to add young players at this point, we have our at least 3-4 young studs to develop in AL, Rajon, Gerald, and #5. Removing the capt and clogging up the rest of the lineup with unproven guys on their own agenda will keep this team in the lotto for years to come and make AL & co. want to leave town asap.

Danny blew it with O’B & Walker..wasted 2 yrs and pushing 50 those were 2 yrs i needed…he used 2#1’s on point guards last year and was 1 for 2…shuffled a lot of chairs around ,rehired a iffy Doc but this set of assets -PP,GG,Al,etc etc #5 in a great draft is his first chance to swing for a Home Run…if Conley drops to 5 that pick will be HUGE because teams think he’s gone at 6 to Milw so the phone will be ringing…at this time we’ll be sitting pretty….What’s happened up till now is nothing compared to the next few weeks and that’s what Ainge will be judged on

Brick, I think you are knowledgable about the game and provide good basketball insights. But when you make comments like this:

“Well to respond to MBurke15, Chris Wallace begged them to take Tony Parker over Joe Forte, but they didn’t listen to him.”

You lose all credibility in my mind because you purport to have some sort of fly-on-the-wall access to the inner dealings of the org. Were you in the room for these conversations. Did you witness Wallace “begging” everyone around him to take Parker. That type of statement is pure hyperbole.

Moreover, if Wallace was really some tied down and ignored for so many years on so many major issues, if he had ANY integrity or cared AT ALL about his reputation, he would have quit. At the time, the guy was a hot commodity in the NBA, coming off a big rep in Miami. He would have found another front ofice job by the next season.

It’s revisionist history to say he isn’t largely responsible for some of the worst Bball decisions of the last 10 years.

"Winning breeds winning and lotto teams stay in the lotto. "

Perfectly stated, D-Dub

All GM’s make way more bad choices than good…Dumars had his team on top most of last 5 yrs and he drafted Darko,White,Cleaves etc…you gotta hit big on a couple and the rest is in the crapper

Cousin It said:

“Well to respond to MBurke15, Chris Wallace begged them to take Tony Parker over Joe Forte, but they didn’t listen to him.”

You lose all credibility in my mind because you purport to have some sort of fly-on-the-wall access to the inner dealings of the org."

This has been reported by Steve Bulpett and others.

The Bulls were in the lottery for a while, now they are a top 5 Eastern Conference team. The Cavs also sucked for a while but they got to the finals. Even the Raptors turned it around this year. Not sure if I buy the “losing breeds losing” argument here.

I’ll live with anything but trading AL…

KG is not Paul pierce. so whoever thinks we will get 2 players and a pick for pierce is crazy..

 half of us are not willing to give up 2 players and a pick for KG.. yet we feel as if we should be able to get that for pierce? come on

jurrasic earl.. please tell me you are joking when you said this..
“Trading Jefferson period for KG would be a blunder”

 I really hope danny ainge is a little, just a little smarter then half the people who post on here. i respect everyones comments and idea’s but this one is just absurd.

 youve got to be kidding me

AL for Kg and you would say no..
 hahaha
 

Brick said: “This has been reported by Steve Bulpett and others.”

Show me a published report with NAMED sources, as opposed to “sources close to the organization” or simply Bulpett alluding to it. There’s a word for that. Gossip. Or, in legal terms, hearsay.

Do you have any idea how easy it is for front office folks to USE reporteerrs to push an agenda or help restore their tarnished reputation?

Once Pitino and Thanks Dad were gone, of course Wallace told all the local basketball beat reporters, “You know all those bad moves? I was opposed to every one of them. Begged everyone to take Tony Parker! But don’t quote me on that.”

And local beat reporters are so desperate to get a story, so desperate to appear to be in-the-know, that they fly with whatever they are fed.

History is written by the winners, or, in this case, the last loser standing—Wallace.

It’s an old cliche, but I’ll say it anyway: Don’t believe everything you read. Especially when you read it in a tabloid/subway daily.

Also, I still say that if Wallace felt he was being railroaded, he would have walked away while he was still riding the wind of his success in Miami. If you see your bosses punching holes in the hull of your ship, you jump off and let them sink with it, instead of putting on the captain’s hat.

You took the title, he cashed the checks, he should be held accountable.

anything –
The Bulls didn’t start to turn the corner until they added the veteran presence of Ben Wallace, and they still don’t have a legitimate go-to guy after all those high picks. That roster won’t win a title until they trade some youth for a veteran AllStar.

The Cavs only drafted one player on this years team, just happened to be one of the best prospects of the last 25 years. The rest of the team is comprised of veteran role players they traded for.

The Raptors did not turn it around. They got smoked by a horrible NJ team that has no front-line whatsoever to guard their franchise fraud, Bosh. And look at who they are now drafting – veteran overseas players.

On the contrary, The Clippers didn’t get out of the lotto until they started trading for some vets and the Hawks have stayed in the lotto b/c they insist on keeping their rookies.

Look at all the teams that have won titles in the last 30 years, common thread? Veterans.

We actually have two untouchables – Big Al and Rondo. You need a post threat AND a point guard. In Al we have the former, and in Rondo, we have a guy who will become Tony Parker in two years, except a better rebounder and defender. Garnett is a superior defender to Al, but has no strong, go-to moves on offense. Danny won’t trade either of these guys for Garnett.

I doubt we’re getting many good offers for Pierce — coming off an injury, his game getting heavier, etc. If we could Marion and Barbosa for Pierce and our #5, I’d do it in a heartbeat.

The best thing Danny can do is trade down 3-6 spots and use that to offload Wally and Scal for an expiring contract. We haven’t had roster flex in years, and we’re gonna need to re-sign our guys and go after free agents. This draft is super deep and we’ll still get a solid player picking later.

btw, Brick, i’m sorry if my responses seem hostile. it’s not directed toward you. i just have a lot of hostility toward Wallace (and every other front office person of the last 15 years)

Chris Wallace wanted to draft Tony Parker, he was shot down…this is fact etched in stone…

I can’t take it anymore LOL>>>>LOL

I’ve read everyone’s responses in here…and I’m so confused…….I need a vacation till after the draft… ;D

Honestly I only looked at your phrase “losing breeds losing”. I only highlighted those teams to show that you can turn it around with talent and a good front office…I was not pointing out teams that I think are the best nor teams that hte C’s should model themselves after. You prove my point, with the luck of the lottery our breeding of losers would have turned into a potential dynasty with an Oden etc.

 By all means bring some veterans into the equation here, but who?

First and foremost, let me state that i am a big Al Jefferson fan(i have an alternate #7 Jersey, and its nice).

Minny will not trade KG without getting Big Al back, end of story. People need to realize that your just can’t throw a bunch of future 1st rounders to cover up the focal point of the trade, WHICH IS AL. Why don’t we just throw Wally and Theo to LA then with 4 consecutive, unprotected 1st rounders to get KOBE, to make up for that crap we would be giving them???? If we don’t HAVE to end up giving the #5 pick, it’ll be a future 1st to replace our own #5 for this year. Am i the only one in here that realizes that Gerald, Theo, trash, and a bunch of first rounders without including Al for KG is a totally unrealistic, horrible trade attempt? McHale should be fired and would be fired if that went down. Green will never be on the same tier as Pierce, nor will Al be on KG’s. On another note, how many projects can you feasibly have on one roster, without creating a losing atmosphere? And how good can you seriously individually teach 8-9 different projects at once Hence the redundancy of the Hawks.

It is obvious that Ainge is going the Vet route like it or not. It was just the matter of finding the right Veteran, as he has probably/hopefully learned over his critized trade history. Ainge has repeatedly said throughout the years that he will go young, in order to create new options, and trade some for a “Good Veteran”, not just a “Veteran”.

Put it this way…If there is anybody Ainge is willing to give up Jefferson for, it’s Kevin Garnett as his replacement. Hence all of us knowing about the trade talks, and why there is even trade talking to begin with. As much as i love Al, he is injury prone. Every season he has played, he has taken time out for something. As much potential as he has, he has a chance of getting injured again, vs. KG who virutally is a machine. A trade for KG would only be the first step, i doubt Ainge would stop there and call that team a “championship team.” Players will want to come here, and he would make a few tweaks. A tandem of Pierce and KG would be of championship caliber, granted they were surrounded by the right pieces. Pierce and KG>Green, Jefferson, #5. Its that simple.

one problem with that logic…you forgot to place Pierce on the side with AL,GG&#5…AL,# 5,GG and PP> than KG&PP…now and in 3 yrs????we’d have a team

brick always talks about trading for camby, but the dude’s 33 years old. that’s not quite committing to a youth movement. would that be just to make perk hone his offense during practice or what?

BillfromBoston,

Says who? There isn’t any way to prove that unless you were in the room or talk first hand with ALL of the people who were. “Asserted by a beat writer for a third-tier subway daily,” yes. But “Etched in stone?” Pure hyperbole.

BUT, even if it’s true, he could have and should have known that he would take the blame for all of these horrible moves he supposedly argued so passionately against, and knowing that, he should have walked away. As I said before, he was still a hot commodity in the NBA at that time and could easily have found another position and protected his rep in the process.

As GM, he put together those contracts. You can’t be the GM, and then cry about all the bad decisions your bosses forced on you after the fact. If he wasn’t the incompetent pulling the strings, then he was the puppet dancing on the end of the strings. Either way, he doesn’t deserve a lick of respect.

Motown- The reason i didn’t include Pierce with the latter, is because i don’t believe we would be in the ECF with Pierce/Green/Jefferson/#5 for a while, or while Pierce would still be in his prime. I compared the future predecessors and what i think they would become, to KG and Pierce at their current level.

Shawn Marion to the Celtics,
Garnett to the Suns
Telfair, the #5, #24 and cap filler (can someone explain that to me?) to Minnesota

thats the newest proposal

no Al … no way

The just quoted McHale.

“We’re not out there actively shopping Kevin Garnett around the NBA. I can tell you that much.”

As usual Internet Message Boards get us all excited for who knows what.

The AP quoted McHale sorry.

here i go again.. you look at this board and see the OVERWHELMING opinion NOT to trade al jefferson for garnett. all the die hards seem to agree.
   but you know what you will find? outrage from the media and boston sports fans as a whole. why? boston for the most part DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THE CELTICS. i can only hope the c’s brass looks here. that may sound ridiculous for managemnt to check out a forum but when 90 percent of the die hards say “no” then the media can’t come out and say “look the celtics need to win this year..(and then go on about trading for vets)
    i’ll keep saying it. wyc grousbeck is about money, money, money(big surprise) but he,along with the bostn media is OBSESSED with the celtics competing with the redsox and patriots. real celtic fans DO NOT CARE about how we relate to our other teams. the casual boston fan wanted allen iverson. some die hards did too but i know they’ve all come back to their senses now. real celtic fans don’t want a competitive "something to watch” when the sox and pats are’nt playing.
   i’m almost done,sorry.i think even danny’s biggest haters have seen now all the good hhe’s done UP TO THIS POINT. you just have to see the options we have now. in fact i think this option has really opened up our eyes that “wow. we have a real nice looking future building here.”
 recently we were drooling at the thought of getting gasol here and adding him with paul and al. maybe that trade can’t happen just yet but COME ON!!!! what about next year if say y1 looks nasty and gerald green looks nasty. we can pair up these guys with the big contract and get the big name out there.
     i just have to believe that danny sees what al can be. he has to know what a bad idea this is. serious question: CAN WE PUT TOGETHER AN EMAIL WITH LONG DRAWN OUT EXPLANATIONS,PLEADING,BEGGING WHATEVER FOR DANNY NOT TO MAKE THIS TRADE? THAT WILL HAVE AN EFFECT WON’ IT?

Sorry for all the bad grammar and punctuation. anyways, i’m really nervous about this and we as fans i think HAVE to do something. at least we can say we tried. let’s make news. let it be known that all the die hards at celtic blog say KEEP AL JEFFERSON!!!!!! i’ll do whatever. i’ll paint my car green i really will.really.