Bulpett: Teams Closer To Deal

I hear Minny also wants some of the banners as well as Jefferson and the 5…

If Minny couldn’t win with KG and Wally, why would the Celtics?

I dont see this happening. Not at this price.

I could see us trading into the late first round if someone nice slips. Possibly with Philadelphia, Phoenix, Detroit or San Antonio. We have enough small contracts to do just about anything at all.

Just say no. Al AND the #5? Not worth it.

this better be a ploy to get interest in the 5th pick if teams think it’s going to Minny…AL&#5 is INSANE!!!!!Shaq brought a title to Miami and he didn’t bring 2 SERIOUS young assets…this is nuts….AI was traded for a bag of balls…you don’t empty the vault for 31 yr old guys unless 99% sure of title…for one yr,ONE FRIGGIN YEAR, we may be better but at most one round better…..

This is ridiculous. Don’t do it Danny. I want to believe that you will keep your word. A month or so ago, when asked if anybody was untouchable, you said Al and Pierce. You must have sense enough not to make this trade, but do your bosses?

Is Danny ever reading these boards…look at the poll, there is more the 1200 votes saying AL for KG is just not right, if you include the 5th pick then that is just totally insane as we completely lose a chance at a player we could replace Al with (horford/Wright or Yi)..does Danny even consider the fact that If KG opts out, then what?, I have to hear Danny’s reasoning if he does this one sided deal, what is it in it for Mchale, and heck F%^

ooops…do not trade AL….this trade is insane…sorry

It might be almost worth making this trade to see Doc squirm when they perform below expectations with KG and Pierce. What will be his excuse when they bomb out of the playoffs early? You better believe he’s jumping up and down for them to make this deal so he can get his playoff bonus.

Fire Ainge, Fire Doc, Fire Bulpett before it’s too late!

I don’t believe that Minnesota does the deal WITHOUT Al Jefferson, but the concept of giving up Jefferson AND the #5 is ridiculous.

I’d love to know the definition of “league source”. the term is used all over the place these days, and suggests an individual affiliated with the league as opposed to the team. perhaps each reporter develops relationships with someone at the league office, but why would they be familiar with or knowledgable about a situation like this? and if it’s a team source in disguise, why would they be risking their job when it seems pretty clear it’s not in the Cs interest to have this floating around? Jeff, or any of the moderators, can you shed any light?

My bet is that the Celtics are offering Green/#5 as the primary consideration, while Minnesota is asking for Al/#5. If this deal is going to get done, I believe there will be a compromise with it being Al. Don’t see Minnesota doing the deal without Al AND I don’t see Boston doing the deal with Al/#5.

To Boston: Kevin Garnett and Trenton Hassell
To Minnesota: Al Jefferson, Theo Ratliff, Wally Szczerbiak, Sebastian Telfair, Ryan Gomes, and Minnesota’s #1

Can he really be this dumb? Al and the number five for a 31-year old KG?

I hope this is simply Bulpett’s personal fantasy because he is team captain of the “let’s get better next year even if it screws us for the next decade” brigade. If McHale gets either Big Al or the 5 in a Garnett trade, not to mention both of them, he has made the trade that salvages his acareer. IF Danny makes the trade, it is a clear sign that he has thrown in the towel on actually attempting to win 17 and is happy to simply have a good enough team to keep his job. It will also prove the critcism of danny that he can draft but can’t trade are 100 percent accurate. His next job will be as head scout…for the Minnesoate Timberwolves.

Let us pray that this is merely Bulpett acting out his fantasies. We can get Garnett for a lot less than what Bulpett suggests, and if we can’t, we walk. Time is on our side. This is not time to act like Rick Pitino and bid against ourself.

Man this bites! last draft was a big let down as we
didnt get to pick because we couldnt secure telfair with
a chip other than a lottery pick
this year we might not pick again and lose the youngest best
big man 20/10 guy in both leagues
we need a new owner or the fans will leave in droves

PS— I will say that if Danny trades the 5 and Big Al for Garnett it will do one positive thinbg for th eAinge legacy— it will make the Telfair deal look good by comparison.

Again— I would love to have Garnett. I just think Danny would be grossly overpaying. I don’t think many teams have the expiring contracts to make an offer in the first place, so Ainge would be overpaying. We should be in no hurry. Minnesota should be the desperate team here, not us. (Plus any deal before July 1 would make it impossible to megotiate an extension, which makeas a pre-draft or draft day deal a much riskier venture.)

Unless he’s extended by Minnesota prior to the draft.

I hope all you guys that wanted to trade for a veteran are happy. This may cost us the next 10 years, but you may get what you want. This is a stupid idea.

This deal makes zero sense. Zero. There had better be some further details we don’t know about. Either that this is just what McHale is “asking for”, or that Ainge temporarily lost his mind for a 48 hour period. Danny, when 90% of your fan base thinks this is an awful deal, that is probably a sign you should hold off….just a thought.

I can see why Minny wont deal without getting Jefferson. Theyre giving up one of the best players in the game. But replace the #5 pick with Gerald so we can get a talented player that will be a better fit with the roster. That is my realistic hope for a compromise.

Also, everyone keeps complaining this run with KG will be just 1 YEAR!!!! While yes, that is a literal possibility looking at his contract, what are the odds Ainge is going to make the signature acquisition of his career and then let the guy walk after a year. I would say theres a huge chance part of the deal is getting some assurance that KG will work out a similar extension to Pierce’s soon after he arrives.

I think we must consider, judging this deal, the marketing effect of having KG in Boston:it puts back the Celtics on the map of the elite teams,it gives us sure TV exposure,will make sell more tickets…

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Id rather not give up both Al and the 5 either. And who knows if we will have to. But any deal where you acquire KG to put with Pierce is far from a sky is falling deal. KG is literally one of the best players in the NBA. People will come around pretty quickly when hes leading us to actual wins next season.

Danny Ainge needs to think about whats best for the Celtics short and longterm, and not whats best for his own legacy. Mortgaging the future of the team for a chance to be a bridesmaid now is nonsense.

Its all about price. Nobody would say KG hasn’t been a much better player than jefferson. But how much better WILL he be over the next 3-4 years?

KG (superstar or not) doesn’t worth Al and the 1/5. Period.

If Ainge does this trade count me as an official Ainge hater.

i really hope danny or wyc reads this blog. the people on this blog are the diehards and they are saying no to #5 and big al.

First I want to say I’m against the deal, and IMO we should be building around Al and Rondo. Not many teams in the league have a PG and a low post player.

Now if we did it, one thing for me that would be a MUST. Have PP & KG’s contracts expire in the same year. As long as we have these 2 guys healthy we are in the playoffs. If in 5 years they both expired we would have over $40 million in cap space and if we did not use it the first year, we’d have a great pick the next year. IMO it would actually be easier to rebuild at that point. Just a thought.

Danny’s made worse trades.

KG’S body type will last longer than PP’s.

Maybe the Celtics don’t value the #5 as high as others.

Maybe they just want to keep their jobs.

Maybe Danny’s having a panic attack.

If the Celtics had this year’s number 1 or 2 draft pick, nobody (absolutely no one) would consider trading it and Jefferson for Garnett – much less throw in Theo’s contract. And yet, there are those who’d make the trade when it’s the 5 pick. They’ve lost their sense of proportion.

Hopefully, making this trade won’t be Ainge’s legacy. Instead, the point at which he passes it by will be remembered as his moment of truth.

Are the Boston Celtics now going to be the Minnesota Timberwolves and Minnesota is now going to be Boston? If this trade were to happen we would trade approximately 5 or 6 players to Minnesota and they would have traded 3 or 4 to us in the last couple of years. I could figure out the 1st trade but cannot figure this one out unless it is Perk, #5, Telefair and Wally for KG.

They are desperate and they are going to do it. The owners and business people are driving it. My guess is that they are shopping the franchise (having lost their shirts, equity-wise, over the last 4 years) and they believe that Garnett will enhance value. He won’t, but they aren’t smart enough to realize that. Certainly none of the rumored deals makes basketball sense.

And of course Jefferson would be included. That way, they do not have to worry about his extension. It’s a financial move, and I expect that the Celtics’ bean counters would not do the deal if Jefferson were staying.

The only one who can stop it is Garnett himself by refusing to come to Boston.

The Celtics are dead. It really is time to find other teams to root for or pastimes that have nothing to do with the NBA.

I’m in the Twin Cities, and all the local media is pumping this deal too. They’re all sad to see Garnett go, but at the same time realize what they’ll be getting back. Any time a market is trading it’s biggest superstar ever and the fans are okay with it, you know it is a one-sided deal.

Rational vs gambler
It’s that simple. if you are rational you go the safe way trusting your long run, step by step vision (don’t trade AJ, keep the pick, add the right pieces here and there). If you are a gambler you take the risk (and sell the farm for KG).
If you are rational you can build a contender but you could also be the next Stockton/Malone Jazz (yesterday you had to face MJ, today Duncan, tomorrow LJ or Oden or…).
If you are a gambler you think that next year you are going to win it all (what about the Spurs without an injuried Duncan?).

I’m rational and I wouldn’t do this trade. But you should admire DA if he suddenly, after a lot of rational and safe decisions, becames a gambler.

Jeff we know you love KG but that was just a silly post. Building up assets is one thing, but do you honestly think it was in the plan deal a player that has become the pre-eminent low post scorer in the league for a 31 year old who has never won anything, can opt out next season, and will destroy the future of this franchise as we know it?

I don’t see how you can give both the number 5 and Al Jefferson. You have to give to get, but both is too high. I wouldn’t mind giving up Al Jefferson and keeping the number 5 with the idea that you could replace Al with the pick but if you give up both, you are betting on a Garnett Pierce run and stinking after that. If you can keep the 5th pick or at least pry the 7th out of the Wolves, you then could either take Noah or maybe even Brewer and have someone to play defense. A starting lineup of Rondo, Wally, Pierce, Garnett, and Perkins, with West, Gomes, Allen, and say Noah off the bench would be very good. That is a 50 win team.

“It’s a financial move”

How can it be a financial move when Garnett makes $19 million a year? Jefferson will be at most a 12 or a 14 million dollar player in his second contract. He is not going to get anywhere near max money. Maybe in his third contract, but not in his extension. If they wanted to save money, they would do nothing and let the insurance pay Theo’s contract next year.

I would say one thing about this, if Garnett doesn’t agree and this deal doesn’t happen and the Celtics open the year next year with Pierce and Jefferson, I expect all of the people who are bemoaning this deal to be drinking the kool-aide talking about a 45 or 50 win season. Look, if Al Jefferson really is as good as you people claim he is, i.e. the best young big man in the game, better than people like Chris Bosh or Dwight Howard, then the Celtics healthy next year ought to be really good. If the Celtics are not very good, then how is it that Al Jefferson is so good? I am just saying.

First of all KG and Wally didn’t work because Wally healthy is at best a #3 option. With Paul Pierce that would relegate Wally to at best a #3. We also don’t know who else is going to be involved in the trade. Personally I’d like to see Scalabrine thrown into the deal which will probably include Jefferson, Green, and Ratliff’s contract. The key to the C’s getting a good deal is being able to hold onto either the #5 pick, picking up Minnesota’s pick, or not having to part with either Jefferson and/or Green. KG is a legit 7 footer (while not a Center) who’s wingspan is beyond comparison. He’s also been on the NBA All Defensive Team 8 Times…which is 8 more times than Al will. Boston fans (which I’m one of) are loyal to a fault, the best scenario would be we get Garnett while holding onto the draft picks.

The Celtics clearly appear to be the only team with the type of package Minnesota is looking for. If I were D A I’d let the situation die down , Garnett will ask to be traded and the Celts can acquire him in February at a lesser cost.

Players generally acquired in February can be had for a lot less than they would in the offseason .

D A just needs to sit back and let Minny come crawling next February.

In addition, the player drafted with the fifth pick could very well be a key contributor and there wouldn’t even be the need to make the deal unless it was clearly in Boston’s favor.

PATIENCE !!!!!!!!

I’m really torn on this. First there is no way the C’s do this deal without assurances from Garnett that he would stick around. Obviously this is a short term move. However the short term could revitalize the franchise. With Pierce and Garnett, the C’s would be competitive and maybe they would also finally use the mid level exception to sign a decent free agent. Plus, D. West and Ryan Gomes (or whomever is left after the trade) could actually be used as the complimentary solid role players that they are, rather than as 35 MPG players. On the other hand, Al is going to be a beast in this league for the next 10 years and he makes 1/10 of what Garnett does. I’m leaning towards Brick, I think I’d rather the C’s move Pierce (the rumor trade with Chicago for Gordon, Ty Thomas, and change sounds good). Maybe then they’d actually be able to run and defend like they’ve been talking about for the last 4 years now.

I think the C’s can get into the playoffs next year with the team as is. Once they get in anything can happen as we saw this year. Boston is a better team overall than the Cavs. With the 5 pick we’d be even better. Hope this is the trade not made (if it
includes Al).

Jeff said:

“like it or not, this probably shouldn’t surprise any of us”

Given Ainge’s history, I agree with you 100%. I think this deal will go down.

“this has been the plan all along – build the assets it takes to land a superstar”

I don’t know. Seems to me the reason we’re here now is that there has always been a vague vision—a team that plays “the right way”—but no real plan. Or maybe it’s just the plan keeps changing. There was the “blow up the O’Brien team and build around Paul Pierce” plan that yielded a 38 win season, a losing team before Antoine II, and a first round playoff exit. Then there was the “go with youth” plan that yielded two trips to the lottery, and a payroll clogged with huge contracts for guys like Theo Ratliff and Wally. Now there’s the “trade all the kids for Garnett” plan which, far as I can tell, has mostly to do with the fact that the team has to do SOMETHING to dig itself out of irrelevance.

“we just got attached to the assets and didn’t realize how expensive a superstar costs”

I guess I think in terms of value, rather than cost. The value of a player—like a stock—is a reflection of their future performance. KG’s huge deal is high given what he’s likely to do in the future. Al’s is incredibly low, at least for now. His value in terms of future performance is huge.

I know Dan Duquette’s name is poison to some, but when he traded prospects for Pedro Martinez—to whom he gave a big contract—it was because he saw a great player who was about to peak. That’s Al Jefferson right now. As great as he is—KG is likely on the other side of that peak.

"if we get a title like Miami did with Shaq, it will be worth it – otherwise… "

Fair enough, but again, money is an issue. Miami was able to build a title winner because it got lucky with Wade, who, coincidentally, was a number five pick. Wade turned into a great, great player who cost the team next to nothing. Haslem helped too and was very low cost. This allowed them to go out and pick up the kind of veteran role players the team needed to win. We don’t have the supporting cast to compete with the Western Conference teams and with nearly $40M tied up in Pierce and KG, it’s very unlikely we’d be able to acquire them.

â€Å"this is going to be Danny’s legacy – everything he’s done since he got here has led up to this moment, we’ll see how it plays out”

I think you’ve put your finger on why Danny’s trying so hard to make this happen. In his first year, Ainge said the team would contend for the eastern conference title by year three. (I can get the quote.) We’re at year five coming out of a lottery season. Danny has to know his time is running out. If the team stinks again this year, he’s probably gone (with Rivers), and his legacy is that he blew up the core of a team that had won nearly 50 games and gone to the conference finals and drove it into the ground.

JohnCK, you asked the deal-opposers if the Celtics will win 45 to 50 games next year without making the trade. The question is, if the Celtics give up Jefferson, the 5 pick and Theo’s contract, and then Garnett walks after one year, how many wins will we have the following years?

JohnCK said:

“How can it be a financial move when Garnett makes $19 million a year?”

It’s a financial move to insist on including Jefferson in the deal. That way, they won’t have to pay both Jefferson and Garnett.

Look, what’s going to happen is that both Wally and Theo are going to MN in the deal. That way they actually save money in 2007-2008 by taking on Garnett’s 19 million, sort of like they saved money in the short run by acquring Vin Baker. Also, in 2008-2009, what they will be paying Garnett will be roughly equivalent to what they would have been paing Szczerbiak and a resigned Jefferson.

And if they can unload Delonte West and Gomes in the deal, they won’t have to extend those players at market value, either. It’s going to be a 60 million dollar payroll in 2008-2009, with Garnett and Pierce making 40 million and the other 13 players making 20 million combined. We’ll have a bench consisting of Scalabrine, Perkins, Alan Ray, Leon Powe and the #32 pick. Maybe they keep Gerald Green, but if he blossoms, I don’t see how they are going to pay him.

And if Garnett opts out, well, he’s just another big expiring contract. This is a one or two-year rental, not a long-term proposition.

Will they make the playoffs over the next 2 years? Probably. Will they sell more tickets to Joe Patriot from New Hampshire? Probably.

Will they get past the second round? Unlikely, not with that bench. And in 2 years it will be (in the immortal words of Louis XV) “Apres moi, le deluge!” Well have a 33 year-old Pierce and the absolute worst team in the league.

i really hope danny or wyc reads this blog. the people on this blog are the diehards and they are saying no to #5 and big al.

The problem is that the die hards aren’t the ones who they care about. Well, not really anyway. The people who care enough about this team to follow them year round, to read up on every prospective draft pick, to comment on every trade rumor…those people…us. We are going to buy tickets and watch FSN every game, no matter who is on the roster. Be it the second incarnation of Dino Radja, JR Bremer, John Bagley,Vin and Tonic Baker, with a bag of moldy bread in a green jersey jumping center…we will watch that team. We will talk our selves into another helping of the Kool Aid.
Its the other folks, the fickle ones, that Garnet will be brought in for. Its the Execs at TNT and ESPN, who will air the C’s on National TV. Its the people who’ll end up sitting in that empty seat to the right and to the left of you at the Garden.

I have no interest in any deal that gets rid of Al, but my opinion (our collective opinion) is not the one that makes a difference.

“JohnCK, you asked the deal-opposers if the Celtics will win 45 to 50 games next year without making the trade. The question is, if the Celtics give up Jefferson, the 5 pick and Theo’s contract, and then Garnett walks after one year, how many wins will we have the following years?”

I dont’ think this deal gets made without Garnett agreeing to an extension. Not even Ainge will pay Jefferson and the 5 pick for a two year Garnett rental. So, I don’t think your point really matters. If the deal is made with no assurance Garnett will stay, then yes, it is a horrible deal. Really no kidding.

Brick,

I want wait and see what the deal is if there is one. But I would agree that if this is a two year Garnett rental that sends Wally back to Minnisota, the ownership and Ainge need to be shot. That would be insane. The only way you could have any hope of making a run with Garnett and Pierce would be to keep Wally and hope he stays healthy. Without Wally you are stuck with no third option on offense. Further, once Garnett leaves, you have the worst team in the league. That said, it is crazy to compare Garnett to Ginn Baker. Garnett really is an elite player. Really, what this deal reminds me of is the Nets getting Jason Kidd. If it were to work out the Celtics might be able to win the pathetic East and get the honor of being swept out of the finals. Joy.

The better deal for everyone is the Marion Garnett three way with Pheonix someone mentioned the other day. That deal allowed the Celtics to keep Jefferson and get Marion. That makes a lot more sense than giving up Jefferson for Garnett.

A fair reply, JohnCK.

I’m reluctant to join in Brick’s paranoia, but he could be right. This might be about the Celtics owners getting ready to sell this team. In which case, they might well make this deal without any agreement by Garnett to extend this contract. And in which case, our cries of concern would be falling upon deaf ears.

No, no THEY DON’T WANT GARNETT TO STAY. If he did, they’d have to pay him. This is a two-year quick fix, driven by people whose bonuses depend on ticket and advertising sales.

And after two years, none of them cares. Ainge will be gone, Rivers will be gone and very possibly Grousbeck will be gone. The venture capitalists were in it for the long haul until they lost their shorts. Now they are looking to get out. The call it an “exit strategy” and every investor has one.

The Garnett deal is like the terminally-ill man who blows his life savings on one last drunken binge.

the only way I consider that deal is if I keep the 5 and get their #7 so I can plan for life after Garnett.

WIth rondo, west/green, pierce, Garnett, Perk, Yi/Noah we can win. If Danny can then trade down with the #5 and get 8 and 22 then all the better. That gives us some yooung talent to restock with – gives us 7,8,22,32 in this deep draft.

If that is really what is happening No Kidding, the people of Boston need to walk away from the Celtics and never give them another dime. An ownership welfare queens who are sitting in their new publicly funded arena and won’t pay to have a decent team is not worthy of anyone’s support. Is there a rule that only soulless amoral corporate drones are allowed to own sports teams?

If the Lakers were “mortgaging” their future right now to pair KG with Kobe, we’d all be complaining about how the Lakers aren’t afraid to make bold moves to compete for titles, and how we Celtic fans have endure more years of rebuilding insteading of reloading for #17. Now, when its the Celtics that actually have the option to make a bold move, to pair one of the league’s best players with our star Pierce and shoot for a championship, everyone is acting like the sky is falling. Now, I’m on the fence on this deal (I don’t like giving up both Big Al and #5), but if we are serious about a championship anytime soon you have to consider doing what it takes.

I always got the feeling when Red was in charge that he was concerned with winning a championship the very next year, not hoping that he might have the talent to do it someday in the far off future.

The sky is not falling. The Celtics just actually have options now. Go all in and shoot for a title, or try to stay a steady course that we hope will pay off big a few years from now.

Gobo, that’s not me anymore. If they make this trade, I’ll pretty much ignore the Celtics as long as current management remains in place. Brick’s post earlier put it perfectly: in 2-4 years, the Celts will once again be the worst team in the league if they make this joke. I’m tired of investing emotion in such a ridiculously inept franchise. Only a fool could’ve thought the Joe Johnson trade made any sense, and I feel the same about this potential trade.

Adding Garnett chokes off any possibility of doing anything else to improve the team. Joe Fan thinks it’s a great idea, because Garnett – if healthy – gets the Celts in the playoffs and on TNT or ESPN more often. What he doesn’t do is get them any closer to a championship.

I used to bleed green over this team. 15 years of futility has dampened my enthusiasm. Regardless of the opinions of the naysayers, that old love for the Celts was starting to come back. I see real potential with this roster. I can see West and Gomes being solid role players. I can see Rondo becoming a top-notch point guard. I can see GG developing into something special. And most of all, I can see Al Jefferson becoming a superstar. 3 years ago, there was no hope of any of this. Now, Ainge is about to throw away the most positive aspects of his tenure in exchange for a few years of mediocrity. I have a bad feeling I’m about to once again not care very much about the Celts. Hope I’m wrong.

Master Po said:

"Brick – why in the world would Minny want Wally back? – that ain’t going to happen.’

Sure it will. Didn’t Bill Simmons call him one of the most popular players in the history of the MN franchise? Zoolander only has 2 years left on his deal. And maybe the Celtics take back masturbatin’ Eddie Griffin to help ease the Wolves’ pain.

No no, TheRev72, the sky IS falling. It just won’t land on top of us will full force for another two years.
 

Brick, no matter what happens I will always, I repeat, always root for and follow the C’s! I wouldn’t even think of changing allengiences to say the Raptors or any other team. Plus I love basketball which I still watch even if the C’s are not involved.

Brick, if this is owner driven as you say, should we be looking for the announcement of Ainge’s resignation soon? Cannot believe that Ainge would give up everything to get KG. I agree with your summation of the financial aspects and I also understand Elrod’s summary. I think Ainge is looking for something in the middle. Can he get it is another question.

This deal is terrible. Fools gold I call it. You don’t give up AL & #5 with your two contract commodities for a 31 year old KG, and 3 years of Troy Hudson at $8-9 mill per. Lunacy. I can totally see where Minny has to have AL included in the deal. KG is a HOFer with some tread left on the tires. However, if you are the C’s, that price is far too high. Minny has no big men fellas, and is not looking to add another guard to Jaric, Hudson, Foye, Hassel, McCants, etc. They want a qulaity big, which is why a Bynum, or a Jefferson is their target.

BTW, what is this “Relevency” crap the bozo’s on EEI keep talking about? Do they even understand how restrictive the NBA is with respect to rebuilding? Why on earth would being relevent matter? The Bruins were relevent for 25 years after ‘78, and what good was that? Fans would much rather be the Patriots. Stink pathetically for 15 years, and then have a 10 year run of championship contention. I don’t want a 1-2 year wonder.

If AL is a lock to be so good, then the Ainge haters are contradicting themselves. Ainge cannot both be awful and have found and developed AL, who is too good to trade for Garnett. I agree #5 and Jefferson is too much too pay. Also I 100% believe that the owners are very $ conscious and have setup a calculus where DA values cost savings. The only way I can get behind this deal is if there is second trade that gets us back into the low-mid teens.

Perkins / Williams
Garnett / Powe
Pierce / Scal
Allen / Wally
Rondo / West

That would be a very solid lineup that could be held together for three or four years to mkae title runs. There is also the chance that with PP and KG we’d be better at drawing free agent talent.

One reason I doubt this deal is AJ to Minny. AJ threw Blount specifically and Davis by implication under the bus after the trade. Everyone is worried about KG walking, but Minny has to be worried that Jefferson plays out the year and leaves.

Repeat After me!

Kevin Garnett is not coming
Kevin Garnett is not coming
Kevin Garnett is not coming

Simply put, it’s all talk and every team at the moment is talking.

Every team is trying to out maneuver the other.

It happens every time during this time of the year.

Don’t be surprised if many players don’t change teams. Too many teams are reluctant to take on additional salaries putting them over the cap.

I stated this yesterday that this team should stay the course with its current players. Trading Pierce or trying to bring Garnett in will hinder this team, because youâ€â"¢re not going to get full value if you trade Pierce and by bringing in Garnett what’s the guarantee that he will stay after one year.

Every GM and owner is assessing their teamâ€â"¢s values and needs at the moment, many hoping and daydreaming about a championship that may or may not come with certain deals.

I for one would rather Danny pick the best available player in the draft with the number 5 pick and continue to grow.

We are not going to win next year; we are no where near in evening competing to get to the finals.

What we have is a good core of quality players along with expiring contracts can probably bring in a quality veteran down the road when this team does begin to mature.

Any chance at all that the rumors could in part be a bargaining ploy for getting Al re-upped reasonably?

The deal won’t happen until sometime before the draft.. It’s too early for this deal to happen. Minnesota wants people to know that the Deal is “close” because they want to see if anybody else will jump in with a better offer.
 
 It’ll be a few days before anything is finalized

Brick, the only good news in your scenario would be a change of ownership.

Jeff said:
  Brick, your arguement makes no sense – if the owners were that cheap, they’d just let Jefferson become a free agent and trade Pierce for peanuts – but they are doing the opposite, they are adding payroll"

No, as I explained above, they are actually subtracting payroll, because Ratrliff and Wally will both go to the Wolves if Garnett comes here, and Garnett will only be here for 2 years.

Also, if they did nothing and then let Jefferson walk, they really would have a fan rebellion and they wouldn’t sell any tickets at all.

Remember that the tickets that really matter are the fancy corporate boxes and corporate “blocks” of good seats on the first level, not your tickets or my tickets.

i’d do KG for #5 theo wally

not AJ. no way!

dont do it danny. please!

If Ainge does this deal as described, another generation of Celtic fans will not experience the raising of banner #17, and Danny will be acknowledged as the worst trader in the history of the franchise. In five years, when Al is a fixture at the All Star game and KG is a memory in Boston, Ainge will not dare show his face in Boston.

AJ & the 5th for KG can be summed up in 1 word – HORRIFYING

Too much… Gerald can go but not Al!!!

Would the Bulls of Luol Deng and the #9 for Garnett, in order to go from good to championship contender? If not, then why would we offer AJ and the #5 to go from terrible to a possible #4 seed in the east?

Ownership isn’t getting ready to sell the team. They are desperately trying to stay below the luxury tax – like TWENTY SEVEN OTHER TEAMS IN THE LEAGUE – but they are spending more money on the team. Keeping Doc might be a stupid decision, but it wasn’t their cheapest offer. If they wanted to save money, they would trade Pierce for draft picks, and then call it ‘rebuilding’. Ironically, that’s not far from what i’d like to see happen, but that’s beside the point.

I feel like everyone on this board saw a different Al Jefferson than I did last year. I’m shocked that people think we are on a better track to win a championship in 4-5 years with Jefferson than we will be with Garnett and Pierce right now. Trading Jefferson is not that much of a risk. I feel like losing the 5th pick is a bigger sacrifice.

By the way, did someone call Al ‘the pre-eminent low post scoring option in the league’? I like Al, I’m glad that he seemed to (finally) make THE LEAP this year – but I think I see why everyone is hating the KG deal, we are seriously over-valueing Al. He’s a good player, one of the best young bigs in the league. But “one of”, not “the”

Look, I don’t think we should trade the number 5 pick AND Big Al. But Big Al by himself is not enough to get us to the playoffs. Look at the record we had, when Pierce was injured. It’s embarassing. And that’s when Jeff put up his numbers. I’m fine trading Al or the pick, getting one of the best big men ever to play the game, and maybe winning more then 35games next year.

Or, we could keep what we have, and win 35-45 games each year for the next 10 years.

It’s real simple, Cullain. KG is at the end of his best years. Al is just starting.

Cullian,

I keep saying that the Celtics could get a young big man at 5 who has just as much potential as Al and might be as productive even next year. Al for Garnett is not a bad deal, assuming Garnett agrees to stay more than two years. I don’t get the hating on Garnett either.

That’s laughable Connelbe. If Al were in this draft, he’d definitely go at least 3rd, and maybe 2nd.

Using all of our salary cap space on 2 guys on the wrong side of 30 doesn’t get us on the championship “track”, anymore than any of the other disastrous trades made in the last 10 years have.

TNCeltic,

If Al were in this draft he might go third but no higher. I could see people being sold on Hortford’s size or Conley’s potential over Al Jefferson. He would certainly go no lower than fifth but I don’t think there is anyway he goes in the top two and he might not go third.

People qre3 trying to rationalize this KG deal but thre is no way to rationalize it unless you are a bean counter looking for short-term profit.

As for current ownership looking to sell the team, who knows? I don’t have inside information. But the Garnett trade is exactly the kind of move that an ownership might make if it were, in fact, looking to sell, and it is definitely NOT the kind of move an owner would make if he were in it for the long haul.

You don’t turn a 10-12 year championship window into a two-year window (and its a false window, because you’ve gutted your bench in the process) by trading your best young player and the best draft pick you’ve had since 1996 (in a very strong draft) for a 31 year-old player with an opt out after one year, and a contract that expires in 2 years. It’s lunacy, aboslute lunacy.

Brickowski is wrong abut ownership. From my seats, which do matter, Grousbeck is at virtually every game. He is a fan. That is what gives us hope as compared to the despicable Gastons.

Danny is not going to make a move to “save his job” as one blogger alleged. He doesn’t need to work another day in his life. No one here disputes that KG is an awesome talent and quite a compliment to Pierce. Danny should be fired if he wasn’t talking to Minny.

KG wants out to get with a winner but his salary and Minny’s demands will strip his new team of any chance of that. He should know by now that he can’t do it himself. So he’s trapped and the blogger that suggests waiting until Feb is right I think.

Ancient Red…you are on the money I think. In Al you have a guy who wants to be here and be part of the C’s revival and he has close buddies, like Perk. In KG you would have a guy with the conundrum I mentioned above…trapped and unhappy.

I hope they keep the pick. I hope they use it for Noah (or Brewer if they have doubts about T Allen’s recovery.) With Noah we get a personality that adds to TEAM. We get talents at the center position that are change of pace to Perk’s (A good thing I think). I’m not giving up on a contribution from Ratliff. Standing pat and adding the #5 (and could we get so lucky to get C. Dudley at 31) makes us a playoff team next year, keeps us in cap flexibility for ‘08/’09 and keeps me and a lot of other fans up-spirited, not down-spirited. If they want our money, and of course they do, that’s not nothing.

I’m sure Danny doesn’t read this blog. I wouldn’t if I were him. But you can bet there are interns etc who are summing it up because we are the fans who fit in the “nut case” category. Danny’s trade record is quite a bit less than his draft record. He knows that too. So, I don’t think this is going to happen.

Brick,

I agree that trading both Jefferson and the pick is lunacy. I don’t think that will happen though. That is such a lopsided deal that I can’t beleive that it wouldn’t have already gone through. I can’t imagine Minnisota ever getting more for Garnett in their wildest dreams. The fact that it hasn’t happened tells me that Garnett is saying no or the “rumors” are just trial balloons put out by the Wolves to get the price higher.

That said, why is trading Jefferson and keeping the pick lunacy? Especially if the pick yeilded your beloved Conley?

TNCeltic,

Signing a kid, who produced his best numbers on a terrible team that lost it’s two top scoring threats, to a max deal is a better idea? Not to mention that Jefferson has not stayed healthy for an entire season yet. Garnett is an elite talent that would dominate in the East. Pair him with an all-star level player in Pierce and you have a chance at the conference. Keep Jefferson and we have a shot at 38 wins.

Jefferson is not a franchise player. He might not even be a perennial all-star, at this point he is all potential and a half season of consistent productivity.

I’m certain that this post will get demolished by beast fanatics.

I had a nightmare last of Garnett in Green a player that has repeated before again and again his desire to play for a CONTENDER for the title not the Eastern Conference! I awake this morning to the possibility that this deal could happen and involve a player that wants to be here and could avg 22 and 10 next season. A budding star and Brewer for a 31 year old super star? I’m sorry wasn’t Ainge talking about bringing in someone who wasn’t going to start looking at the other side of the fence?

You know what? Brick you are the man and I agree with you on your analysis. This is an exit strategy. Thank god I’m going overseas in Oct. I’m so upset right now. Please Garnet nix this trade.

Horford’s size? He’s like 6’8.5, and nowhere near as skilled as Al.

Connelbe,

Al isn’t going to get a max deal.

It’s amazing that Joe Fan’s lust to be “relevant” leads them to undervalue the best prospect we’ve had in 15 years.

Brick,

10-12 year championship window with Jefferson? When did Jefferson turn into Duncan or Stoudemire? Jefferson’s ceiling is 18 and 10 with an all-star appearance or two. Not exactly championship type stuff.

It’s going to happen. They are desperate and will give up too much.

They will never draft Conley. That would be an admission by Ainge that Rondo wasn’t a steal. It will never happen. Besides, I think it is better than 50% that Conley will be gone before #5. He has “franchise point guard” written all over him.

I expect Horford to go at #3 and Conley to go to Memphis at #4. I then expect Atlanta to swing a deal with Portland for local product Jarrett Jack to fill the Hawks’ need at pg.

So the Celtics probably wind up with Yi as Garnett’s caddy, or maybe Brewer or Green if they think Tony Allen won’t be ready (or if they’ve already traded Allen away).

Keep #5. offer Al Jefferson, everybody wins.

Garnett and Pierce people!!

Brick said:

The Garnett deal is like the terminally-ill man who blows his life savings on one last drunken binge.

Great line.
That said, I’m drunk. I feel this needs to happen.

To: TNCeltic
From: Joe Fan

In my lust to be relevant I under estimated a player who has played a wonderful 50 to 60 games in the NBA. I apologize for coveting one of the best big men in basketball, and look forward to next year when Jefferson and Yi lead us to the playoffs. I am certain that I will not be disappointed by the Al Jefferson championship decade that will soon be upon us.

Hortford measured out at over 6 ten in the combines. He is not 6’8".

Brick,

Brewer and Green or Thornton are all three going to be really good players in the league. I think Yi’s stock has fallen too far from him to go at 5. If Garnett agrees to stay for four years where him and Pierce’s contracts run out the same year and you get a good player at five and don’t give up any of the good young players beyond Jefferson, the Celtics would be in a position to make a real run over the next four years and then start over again after Pierce and Garnet’s contracts run out. I don’t see how that is such a bad scenerio if it happened. Realisticly, how is Al Jefferson any more than a non-headcase Zach Randolph? Granted that is pretty good, but lets be honest here, Jefferson is not Tim Duncan and will be at best a number 2 guy. He is not going to be a franchise player.

Jefferson’s ceiling is 18 and 10? That may be the most preposterous post in the entire thread. He topped that with regularity after the all-star break.

Look at what the elite power forwards in the league average. Are you telling me that Al Jefferson is going to consistently get those type of stats for the next 4-5 years? JohnCK’s comparison to Randolph minus the headaches is right on the money.

Then again I am Joe Fan.

Horford measured 6’10 in shoes. Big difference.

TNCeltic,

In all fairness so did Mark Blount the last half of the 2003 season. Not that Jefferson is another Blount, but it is a little much to conclude the guy is a sure franchise player on the basis on one half of a season. Further, those numbers came in meaningless games on a terrible team that was some nights barely trying to win. I think you need to be careful in reading too much into Jefferson’s second half last year.

If we absolutely must have Garnett for AJ and #5, then the least we can expect is to get back Minny’s #7. That being said, I still would not make the deal!

Say no to Garnett!

With Pierce and Garnett, on day one we’d be at our peak and headed downhill. I’d rather keep Jefferson, the 5 pick, and Theo’s contract, and trade Pierce.

I may not ever get to the top of the hill, but I want to be headed in that direction.

John,

Blount at the end of ‘03 didn’t average anywhere near what Al did after the allstar break. I think it’s obvious between the two.

You might want to be careful in putting too much into Garnett’s #s the last few years, considering how bad Minnesota has been. Apparently 20/10 is very easy to do on a bad team…..

TNCeltic said:

Jefferson’s ceiling is 18 and 10? That may be the most preposterous post in the entire thread. He topped that with regularity after the all-star break.

I agree that Jefferson’s ceiling is a lot higher than that. But, at the same time, there’s a lot of people that could have put up those numbers with that disgrace of a team after the All-Star break.
I think Jefferson’s stats have no bearing on what happened last year. If you just watched him, you could see him getting better every night.
That’s what makes this difficult.
Al could be hitting his ceiling now or he could become a superstart/KG-level type player.
That’s for Danny to decide.
If we do give up Al, which seems more likely by the day, there is no way DA doesn’t keep either the No. 5 or get Minny’s pick. With Ainge’s drafting skills at that spot, who’s to say he doesn’t come away with someone that could be as good as Al once the PP/KG train has come to a halt?

If we aren’t ever going to get to the top of the hill then what is the point? How long can we play the young with potential card? Chicago is on the same slippery slope.

I don’t know, Connelbe. But I do know that you don’t get there by trading all of your assets for a 31 yr old perennial loser, whose best years are behind him.

I’d rather be Chicago, these days, then what Minnesota has been. Again, Pierce and Garnett would be at their peak on Day One and headed downhill. Old Man Time catches up with everyone.

I’m completely in agreement with everyone who thinks Jefferson and the #5 is too much for Garnett. However, if it came down to keeping Jefferson or the fifth pick, I would keep the fifth pick every time.

Go look at the record TNCeltic. Blount tore it up in the second half of the 03/04 season, that is how he got his big contract. The point is that lots of players who have had good halfs or even full seasons have gone on to be stiffs. This idea that Al Jefferson is somehow a star because he had one good half playing for a bad team is nuts. Maybe Al Jefferson will be a star in the future, but he is not one right now and there is no gaurentee he will ever be one. Like I keep saying, if Jefferson is really that good then the Celtics should stand pat and be able to go to the finals next year.

DA nearly moved Al for Iverson last year but caved at the last minute, thankfully. I still think this doesn’t go down and that Ainge will explore other trade options (Marion, Lewis) that don’t involved Al.

“I don’t know, Connelbe. But I do know that you don’t get there by trading all of your assets for a 31 yr old perennial loser, whose best years are behind him.”

Yeah because Al Jefferson is such a proven winner who has accomplished so much. It is a team game. I guess Jerry West was a perinial loser then to, at least before 1972. I guess you wouldn’t want him or Charles Barkley or Karl Malone or any of the other great players who were not lucky enough to play on a championship team. There is no player in the league who works harder or plays harder than Garnett. Yeah, he is a looser because he couldn’t beat the Spurs with a team whose best player besides him was Latrell Spreewell. Object to the deal all you want, but calling Garnett a loser is just ignorant.

Al didn’t have one good half of a season. He was solid from day one last year. He started getting more playing time after his appendicitis, and started putting up big #s. After the allstar break, I think he averaged 20/11.

Conversely, Blount averaged like 14/10. There’s no comparison between Al and a player known to be a slacker.

And Connelbe, you might keep the 5th pick over Al every time, but I doubt you’d find many people who’d agree with you.

TNCeltic,

You don’t get the point, it is not that Al is Blount it is that one half of a season doesn’t mean anything. Further, Al wasn’t solid from day one. He had a string of lousy games in October and November. It wasn’t until he went for 29 and 15 against New Jersey in December that he started to play well. Even then, he still didn’t constistantly top 15 points and 10 boards until February and March. Look, I like Al Jefferson. I think he is already a good player and should be a very good one next year. I just don’t think he is a HOFer or anything.

So what has he won, John? Kobe had nothing around him, and got his team to the playoffs. Duncan is surrounded by role players and has made the Spurs a near-dynasty. Lebron is surrounded by trash and got the Cavs to the finals.

Contrary to popular belief, Garnett is not among the league’s best players. He’s a stats compiler, who doesn’t make those around him better, the way great players do. Al may never turn into a franchise player…I don’t know. But at Garnett’s age, it’s obvious he isn’t going to.

Come on now. Garnett has clearly been one of the league’s best players, and to call him a stats compiler is nonsense. And if he was five years younger, all of us would be volunteering to drive Jefferson to the airport to make the deal.
Let’s not get carried away.

I’m for this deal. Al J is a nice player, but he’s no KG. I could quibble about the other pieces, but I think Wally heading out, and a badish contract coming back is probable.

One pet peeve: Posters who say “If this deal doesn’t guarantee a championship I’m against it!!” In that scenario, the perfect becomes the enemy of the good. If you can’t have perfection, you don’t want to get better incrementally. That way you never get better.

Give me a front line of KG, Perk and Gomes, with PP and Rondo backcourt. You have to hope that GG becomes a serious scorer off the bench. You have DWest off the bench. Maybe Tony Allen comes back for more defense.

Now maybe players might want to come to Boston – you fill in with a couple MLEs the nest two years and go with that. You’d be in the conference finals, and what the heck is wrong with that??

TN,

Al Jefferson is a better winner than Garnett? Jefferson has only proven that he can put up solid to good numbers on a terrible team. Again, I will bring up the zach randolph comparison. I would love to watch Garnett “compile stats” for the C’s. Meanwhile Al Jefferson will be curing cancer, saving kittens and pulling down 23 boards every night in the twin cities.

Yeah, Tony Parker and Manu Gernobli are role players. Both of those guys are going to be in the HOF someday. What are you nuts? Duncan also plays for perhaps the best coach in the league. Kobe is not alone. Odom is a very good player. So was Carron Butler before they traded him. They are not All-Stars but they are better than anyone on the Wolves this year.

I love this stat compiler. Yeah, all he does is score, block shots and rebound at a huge rate. Clearly, none of those things help his team or anything. When Garnett had some decent players around him in Sam Cassell and Spree, he went to the Western Conference finals. When the team has nothing around him, the team doesn’t win. It is still a team game. The “he just a stat compiler” is a garbage argument. What is the guy supposed to do, not take shots or grab rebounds because doing so just makes him a “stat compiler”. It is not as if Garnett has ever been accused of being a ball hog or anything. He is not Iverson or Bryant out taking 40 shots a game to score 25. Garnett is the most efficient player in the league. The guy scored 22 points a game last year, while shooting 87% from the free throw line and 47% from the floor. But he isjust a stat stuffer. The rest of the world calls that a “productive ball player”. Further, who are we supposed to beleive about Garnett, you or nearly everyone who has ever played with him who rave about his basketball genious, his work ethic and his intensity?

I see people say that this is where the DIE HARDS are. But I see lots of people keep saying that if this deal is done that they will go to another team. Doesn’t sound to die hard to me!!!!!!!!!!!

The deal reported in the Minn. paper is the one we should be hoping for:

Expanded Timberwolves trade rumor: Kevin Garnett to the Phoenix Suns as part of a three-way deal with the Boston Celtics that would bring the Wolves 6-9 Kurt Thomas from Phoenix and 6-10 Theo Ratliff from Boston, both of whom have contracts that expire after next season. The Suns would send forward Shawn Marion to the Celtics, who would send guard Sebastian Telfair to the Wolves.

The Wolves would get the Celtics’ No. 5 overall pick and the Suns’ No. 24 overall pick in next week’s NBA draft, and keep their No. 7 overall pick. In addition, the second-round conditional pick they owe Boston in the Ricky Davis-Wally Szczerbiak deal would be eliminated.

DannyAinge44,

I love that deal. Marion is what 26? You can sign him to a long term deal and build around him and Jefferson and either make a run with Pierce or trade him. I think that is the more likly deal. I think Garnett wants to go to Pheonix. A lineup of Staudamire, Nash and Garnett might win 70 games. The Wolves get three of the top 15 picks in this draft and two expiring deals and a real future and the Celtics get an All Star without giving up Jefferson and become an immediate threat to win the East. I can’t see a downside for anyone in that deal.

For the love of John Smith please don’t trade for Garnett!!!

SI says it isn’t happening…………unless Ainge is “certifiable”

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/chris_mannix/06/21/marion/index.html

That deal also works on the Real GM tade checker. Is it just me or does that deal make too much sense not to get done? I am sure Minne would love to ship off Garnett to Boston in this highway robbery deal, but I bet Garnett won’t go for it and wants to play with Nash in Pheonix. If that is the case, this is about as good of a deal the Wolves can get. The only stumbling block is Pheonix’s cheapskate owners. But, why wouldn’t Pheonix want to take a run with Garnett and Nash, especially if they could still keep Staudamire and have a franchise player to build aroung when Garnett and Nash are gone?

I got in late today and trying to catch up with the posts…

Jeff – you said earlier that if we get a title like Miami did with Shaq, it will be worth it.

I tried to post a forum topic a few days ago, but it got deleted, I guess. Not sure why, but at any rate, would it really be worth it to the fans and the organization to make the trade win a title (which won’t be easy!!) then have PP and KG retire or move on and then we are left with spare parts. I don’t want to be the Florida Marlins where we win a title then the next year we have the worst record in the league.

Stuck in Philly,

Manix is right. Ainge would be nuts to give that and I don’t think he will. Further, I don’t think Garnett will allow himself to go to Boston. I think he wants to go to Pheonix. And I guess Marion is 29, but I still like the three way that brings him to Boston.

Marion , Garnett, somebody! I am tired of always looking long term. We have been looking long term since ‘87. Let’s try short term for once.

The Celtics are dead. It really is time to find other teams to root for or pastimes that have nothing to do with the NBA.

Are you F-in kidding me? You know, it’s BS fan comments like this that make me sick. So, you’re saying if the C’s trade Al for Garnett, the C’s are dead?? Seriously, now I hope they make the trade so you do start rooting for the Raptors and stay out of this site. Then, when you see the C’s start winning, you’ll come crawling back. Pathetic. Good, Bad or Ugly, I’ll root for this team. And so will many like me. We’re called diehards.
MAN that pisses me off.

Maybe Garnett does not want to come here? Red made a good trade Bill Russell was 22 years old and drafted by St. Louis and traded Ed Macauley 6 time all star and rookie Cliff Hagan future all star in 1956 for him. You can see good info from Wikipedia.org on Bill Russell. The Celtics drafted Tom Heinsohn and KC Jones that year. I would keep Al Jefferson at age 22 and draft the best player available at 5 or trade with Atlanta or Charlotte and try to move around in the draft to get two number one picks and we will be fine. I thought this was the best and deepest draft in years? Then we can keep following the development of this team to be one of the best.

Marion is 29. The question is whether or not a player like Corey Brewer or Jeff Green (both of whom will certainly be available with #5) will be better than Marion in 2 years.

Well, if they do get Marion, idiot Rivers will have his “power three” so he can tuck that particular line of BS into his back pocket and forget about it.

BTW, the main hole I see in that prposed PHX deal is that PHX is being mandated by ownership to reduce payroll in order to save some cash. This deal does the opposite.

Brick,

Brewer or Green or whoever might be better than Marion in two years but I doubt it. Marion is a very good player and 29 is not exactly 39. He has at four or five years left in his prime. I don’t see how anyone could complain if Ainge managed to turn Theo, Telfair, and the fifth pick in the draft into Marion. I really don’t. Everyone keeps saying how there is so much young talent on this team. Okay, fine, what could be wrong with keeping all of it and adding a guy like Marion?

Unfortuneatly, Pheonix is probably too cheap to make the deal and will continue to waste Nash and Staudamire without winnning a title.

Bleedgreen said:

“BTW, the main hole I see in that prposed PHX deal is that PHX is being mandated by ownership to reduce payroll in order to save some cash. This deal does the opposite.”

Not necessarily. For 2007-08, They shed Marion’s 15 million and KT’s 7 million for KG’s 22 million, so its a wash. Maybe the Wolves also agree to take Banks back, saving another 4 million.

And for 2008-2009, if KG opts out there is no problem. Otherwise, they are 7 million worse (they have KG’s 24 million instead of Marion’s 17 million) But after next year they have the option of moving Diaw, which will be much easier after his BYC expires.

Actually if this deal goes down I see Banks going to MN and Telfair going to Phoenix.

So a logical deal (assuming that the Wolves were willing to trade KG to another WC team, would be

KG and Telfair to Phoenix
Ratliff, Kurt Thomas, #5, #24 and Banks to MN
Marion and #29 to Boston.

This is the one i like the most. Is it realistic to expect anything better?