Details Of The Deal That Wasn't

I can’t blame Kevin McHale for asking for the moon….from the Celtics, as though we’re DESPERATE to trade. The definition of “desperate” is $.50/dollar. As in all negotiated trades, the trade needs to help BOTH teams or every team in a 4-way deal. It would appear that Boston is being asked to deplete it’s bargaining chips so other teams can have their cake and eat it while we scamper for the left-over crumbs.

Isn’t it time we revisit Danny’s desire to trade Jefferson? Have contract discussions with Jefferson been so unreasonable that Danny wants to UNLOAD Jefferson while his value remains high? Or, has Danny decided that Jefferson will remain a one-dimensional (offensive) talent? Or, did all this trade talk evolve because we had a chance to get KG but despite offering the kitchen sink, McHale ALSO wanted to unload Hudson’s bad contract?

The Wolves still seem reluctant to trade KG because they’ve been offerred great pieces (too much IMO) yet want more. Kg would be a good Celtic addition but at what cost? We expend so many resources to get him that our cupboard remains BARE!

The good news is that it doesn’t look like we are willing to part with Al Jefferson UNLESS we get a “star”. Shawn Marion makes more sense if the cost is Ratliff, West, and the #5.

ESPN is reporting a deal is close – with the Celtics giving up Jefferson and the #5 (and I can only assume Ratliff) and getting back Jermaine O’Neal.

If this goes down this could easily be the reverse equivalent of the day Red fleeced Golden State and the Celtics ended up with both McHale and Parish.

Stop the madness. God, stop the madness. NOOOO.

Am i the only one who doesnt see any good coming out of this?

Dont be an idiot Danny.. draft the best guy possible .

I agree havlicek, with all the terrible rumors floating around out there, I just want the draft to come and go with no trades being made.

Its all talk ,Jefferson isn’t going anywhere

if they do this trade, they would of done something may 22nd fail to do, kill off all my interest in the c’s

Is it possible Danny will make the trade. Quit the C’s, then get hired by McHale? 8)

I knew this trade wasn’t going to work once I heard that it was a 4 team deal…way too complicated….we should simply trade PP to a team with a high profiled player to team with….hmm…sounds like minnesota?…..we should simply trade PP for the seventh pick and for anything that works…cause minnesota doesn’t have anything useful in return anyways….so we could draft yi with the 5th pick and thornton or brewer ( I prefer brewer)…so we could out w/ a lineup of:

rondo, brewer, green, jefferson and perkins (it could sean williams if he drops to us w/ the 2nd pick)……now tell u guys wouldn’t like that lineup by simply trading PP to minnesota for the 7th pick

worst of all the trades i’ve heard. danny sure is on the phone a lot. i hope he is not serious about this one and is blowing smoke.

Can’t see it happening — if we wouldn’t give up #5 and Jefferson for KG, why would we for JO’N?

If Ainge has every intention of drafting a Yi / Noah type then who does he target the expiry and some spare parts after?

No trades unless it’s just picks for picks and us giving up a bad contract. I don’t want any these selfish players except Garnett but not for a guy 10 yrs his junior putting up big numbers. He’d trade him but only for a guy like Chris Bosh I think.

This trade will happen, it will just not include AJ. How about screwing Minnie over and sending the #5 and a contract right to Indy for O’Neal.

Can’t see it happening — if we wouldn’t give up #5 and Jefferson for KG, why would we for JO’N?

i thought danny wasset to do that for kg…until kg said no to boston. that being said/asked, danny…dont be bullied. geta pick for pp if you need to.

I can’t imagine this trade will happen. Of course McHale wants Jefferson. It’s confirmation of what many of us have been telling those who say we should trade everything for KG. Al is a budding superstar and McHale knows it.

Garnett can taste playing in LA. There’s no way he’ll accept a trade to Boston, or just about anywhere else. What would be of great concern to me is if Ainge even entertains discussion of the proposed deal. There are only a handful of players I’d trade Al for, and O’Neal certainly isn’t one of them.

If the Celtics trade Jefferson and the 5 for Jermaine O’Neal, then Ainge should be run out of town. If you trade anyone, trade Pierce. If he’s going to demand a trade, then mess everybody up and trade Pierce to Minny for Foye and the 7th pick. You don’t trade a young PF not anywhere near his prime for an old PF. I hope Ainge remembers how successful O’Neal and Pierce were together in the Olympics. And you never be part of a bad trade that sends Garnett to the Lakers. You just don’t do it if you’re the Celtics.

Trade Pierce. Get a high draft pick. Rebuild around Jefferson, because he’s the future of the franchise.

Would do Pierce for a high draft pick and player in a minute. This is the wrong time for him to be publicly wailing about wanting a vet or be traded. It lets our potential trading partners think that we have to make a deal and weakens our trading position. As Archie Bunker would say, “Stifle”.

Green Bear, the problem is that Pierce is Wyc Grousbeck’s binky. Grousbeck has no business being anywhere near an NBA franchise.

Would you guys be willing to deal Big Al if we got Jermaine O’neal and Lamar Odom? Minny would get Big Al and picks, LA would get KG, and Indiana would get Bynum young players.

Just curious if you guys would send Al for those two

Big rumor here in Memphis that the Grizz can’t decide on Noah or Conley, so they want them both. Giving up Gasol not too big a price to do it. Now they’re trying to find a dance partner.

ZibNation,
I wouldn’t be happy to get O’Neal and Odom. They both spend a lot of time injured and both don’t really fit the run and gun style of play that Doc and Ainge talked about installing, if Rondo is to be our point guard of the future, we need to get him some athletes to run the court with him, I could see Garnett running, but O’Neal just plods along and I really haven’t seen Odom enough to know what kind of player he is. Every time I hear about him he is out with an injury.

How can you allow a fringe all-star like Paul Pierce hijack the Boston freakin’ Celtics? Wyc is a sacless chump. And Danny, if he had any principles, should quit before catering to the demands of his spoiled “superstar” and ignornant owner. Trade Pierce. Draft the best player available at #5. Move on. This week can not end soon enough.

The amount of panic on this board right now is unbelievable. Nothing has happened yet. There are only rumors. Everytime a new rumor leaks out, everyone around here piles on someone (Ainge, PP, Wyc, whoever) as if its for sure going to happen. God, could everyone just relax a bit and wait to see what happens.

There’s a difference between (1) discussing possible deals and (2) acting like every unconfirmed trade rumor is sure to happen and be the downfall of the team forever.

the team I see blinking in all of this is Phoenix. I think you’ll end up seeing them eventually give in to the ‘trying to take thier shot now’ gig and putting Amare out there in a KG deal. Now if they’re willing to go there and McHale is given the choice between Al and #5 or Amare and he still wants Al I think Danny has definate room to dance. I certainly wouldn’t be opposed to something with Ratliff, Jefferson and #5 going to Minnesota while Amare comes back. I’d see if one of Phoenix’s draft picks could come back this way but that’s certainly too tempting to just dismiss out of hand.

All these trade rumors give me a bad, bad feeling. They’re all so distant from anything I’d be considering, that I fear I’m about to blind-sided by the announcement of a horrendously bad deal.

“Keep Jefferson, draft Yi, Ratliff & filler for Lewis.”

This isn’t even an option. Ratliff and filler for Lewis won’t be accepted by Seattle.

Big rumor here in Memphis that the Grizz can’t decide on Noah or Conley, so they want them both. Giving up Gasol not too big a price to do it. Now they’re trying to find a dance partner.

sounds interesting, depending on the price: Gasol for #5 and who?

Here in Atlanta, the consensus is still that Atlanta is going to take Brenden Wright. That Horford is the more ready player but Wright has the better upside. Since Atlanta is going to compete next year anyway, take the guy with the upside. If the Grizz take Noah or Conley, that leaves Horford for the Celtics. If Horford is there, trading the pick would be stupid. Keep the pick and Jefferson and have Horford, Jefferson and Perkins to build around for the future. Horford is the most NBA ready big man in the draft, even more ready than Oden. He is exaclty what the Celtics need; an athletic big man who can block shots, rebound and score around the basket. He is everything AK 47 is but for rookie money.

If you add him to a developing Perkins and Jefferson and Rondo in his second year and a healthy Pierce and Wally and that team could win 45 or 50 games. I really wish Pierce would just shut the hell up and let Ainge draft and the young guys develop. The team has a chance to be very good within a couple of years.

pierce sczerbiak for o´neal dunleavy
draft bpa at #5

Where’s Master Po when we need him?

or ratliff #5 for gasol

Responding to an earlier post, everyone has their limits, including Wyc with Pierce. As long as Wyc has someone to be the poster child for the Celtics, like Jefferson, he’ll be happy. Yes, Wyc has said all the right things about Pierce because he knows management needs to back it’s star player. But if push came to shove, Wyc is most loyal to his wallet.

I wouldn’t want Odom and Bynum either. That wouldn’t improve them significantly. I think it’s time the Celtics realized they’re not going to land another all-star because no one wants to play for them right now. That means the Celtics would be dealing from a position of weakness, and you don’t want that.

So they should trade Pierce. Not because he might be whining, but simply because now’s the time to do it. His value could never be higher than right now. Trade Pierce for a high pick, and build the team around Jefferson.

I don’t think the Celtics can trade Pierce. What team would really want him especially with the number of better players potentially on the market right now. Why trade for Pierce when you could try instead to get Kobe Bryant or Kevin Garnett or Amare Staudamire or even Shawn Marion, who is about equal to Pierce but was healthy last year?

I’d trade #5 for Gasol. He’s young and skilled. We’d suck on defense, but we’d score 110-120 a night.

Green Bear, I’ve been begging the team to take your common sense approach for about six months. So have Bill Simmons and a number of others. Even Cedric Maxwell adocated trading Pierce a couple of weeks ago on WEEI.

But it hasn’t happened. It simply isn’t a reality that Wyc Grousbeck seems to understand. Building around Pierce barely made sense 4 years ago when Pierce was 26. Now he’s 30. When will this blind stupidity end?

I’m frustrated and baffled. I mean, Wyc Grousbeck went to Princeton and has a law degree from Michigan. He can’t be that stupid, can he? How does he manage to make good decisions for his other VC clients when he can’t make one for himself?

I don’t blame this on Ainge at all. Ainge was willing to trade Pierce several years ago to get Chris Paul. I’m convinced that Pierce is still here because the owners have tied Ainge’s hands.

It’s not a matter of wanting to deal Al. I like Al. But the gap between “I like Al” and “I Like Al more than one of the 10 best player on the planet” is considerable. The problem is, Pierce, Garnett and a whole lot of flotsam is not enough to get the Celtics where they need to be in the next 3 years (the real window of opportunity here).

The question becomes is: Pierce Marion BigAl stuff > Pierce Garnett stuff? I think it is. Still, I think they should be going harder after Kirilenko, because they can buy low on him.

Brick,

If you want to trade Pierce, who to? I don’t think Utah wants him and the team wants someone who people will pay to watch so the AK 47 deal is not going to happen unless there is a huge demand to watch headcase pasty faced white Russians play ball in Boston. I think Atlanta might be a team that would be interested. They have no one to sell tickets and Pierce could sell a few tickets, but who could Atlanta offer? It is a really tough nut to crack.

Danny you must not trade AJ, he is too good already at such an early age and has a lot more potential.

If we’re going to trade Pierce, why didn’t we do it 3 years ago? I can’t wait for Big Al to lead this team to another 2 wins next year, and for us to start speculating about the lottery in December.

Don’t get me wrong – at this point, if we’re not willing to trade for KG or JO or Gasol, I think trading Paul is the right thing to do. I just wish Danny had the balls to do it 3 years ago – bad basketball for 3 years is a lot preferable to medicore basketball for 7

We’ll never get a good deal for a Pierce trade; not as it’ll be initially seen. But we should quickly grab what we can get for him. We should move at hyperspeed if we can get Kirilenko for him.

Teams would want to trade for Pierce because he would come cheaper than Kobe, Garnett, or Amare. Or even Marion. He’s still one of the top players in the league. KG and Pierce in Minny would get the Wolves in the playoffs.

I don’t know what to say about Wyc, other than he seems to be taking lessons on how to own a sports franchise from George Steinbrenner. What may change Wyc’s mind is the development of Jefferson. I think he simply wants a face for the franchise that they can market. Jefferson became that last year.

While Jefferson may not be one of the top ten players on the planet right now, his future is bright. Bringing in O’Neal or Marion does not win the Celtics a championship. It gets them in the playoffs, but it doesn’t even guarantee them a first round victory. Pierce and Garnett does not a championship make.

I guess it all comes down to Wyc. Does he realize more money is to be made in the future by building the team the right way, or does he take a pillage approach and simply grab the short term money while it’s there by getting a Jermaine O’Neal.

O’Neal will probably get them over .500 in the 50 games he appears in. Then there are the other 32….with no defense, no coach, and no inside presence…..and no future.

Sounds like a great deal.

They should offer Pierce to Utah for Kirilenko and #25, or to Detroit for Tayshaun Prince and a resigned Amir Johnson. I believe that Prince is no longer BYC after July 1, and Johnson is an excellent young prospect IMHO.

I do not believe that either of those offers would be turned down.

I would also try to move Pierce to Dallas for a package including Josh Howard or to Golden State for a Biedrins-Harrington package.

Or maybe the Lakers will offer Kwame Brown (expiring) Bynum and #19 when they realize that they can’t get KG with the crap they have unless they are willing to move Kobe.

The point is that Ainge should be on the phone today trying to work out Pierce deals, not in Phoenix begging them to let him overpay for Marion, who doesn’t want to be in Boston anyway.

Brick

  Each of above deals is worth major consideration by both sides. Even Detroit for Rasheed makes sense with him on a 2 years contract. I can’t fathom the facination with Marion playing with Wally, PP, and Gomes. Thats hardly up-tempo breakneck basketball, which is the only way Marion is going to play the 4.

Pierce

Josh Smith
Speedy Claxton
Lorenzen Wright (Cut)

1. or #11

I’d send him to the LAkers for that package, but hell no to detroit. That deal is awefull, as is teh utah deal. Atlanta would be nice since they could offer MArvin Williams and either #3 or #11. Remember, Atlanta looses their pick next year, unprotected, to Phoenix, so they get nothing from sucking.

BigAl and the #5 pick too much for O’Niel, even if his first name is Shaq! Hope Danny toes the line and doesn’t give up too much for anybody. Anybody have Danny’s cell number?

Pierce to Atlanta makes a lot of sense. If the Celtics could get either the three or the eleven they could be assured Horford or if they take the 11 Thornton, both of which would help a lot. The Celtics would then be free to take Brewer or even risk taking Yi at the number five. It would gaurentee at least one or two more years of sucking, but what a future. That would be a real future built on top draft picks not the one the Celtics have now built on late first round spare parts.

Also you could get AC Law with the 11 pick. Law is a much better option than Conley. He is bigger, plays better defense and shoots much better than Conley. Unlike Conley, Law really was the leader of his team and was probably the best big moment shooter in the NCAA last year. Conley’s ability to drive and penetrate won’t do him a bit of good in the NBA until he learns how to shoot. He is too small to post people up so until he can hit an open 18 foot jumpshot, teams will just lay off of him and keep him from getting inside. Law, in contrast can really shoot. Teams will not be able lay off of him and he will get to the basket. Give up Pierce for Marvin Williams, salary cap relief and the rights to Law to put along with either Hortford or Yi at the number 5, wouldn’t be too bad.

Here’s the lates buzz from Chad Ford regarding the C’s. Note that the 3 way deal with the C’s, Lakers and Wolves, is just Chad’s idea and not an actual rumor

This is supposed to be the time of year that we focus on the NBA Draft, but with trade talk flying fast and furious, the entire NBA landscape — and the draft order too — could change dramatically this week.

“There are more teams looking to trade this year than any other time I’ve seen over the past seven years,” one GM told me.

So what’s going on? And how does it affect the draft?

Here’s the latest …

• What’s happening with the Kevin Garnett four-team blockbuster? Depends on who you ask.

From what we can reconstruct, it appears that talks started when Lakers owner Jerry Buss and Timberwolves owner Glen Taylor began talking about a KG-to-the-Lakers trade between the two teams.

Once it became apparent that the Lakers didn’t have a good enough package to entice the Wolves to do the deal, each team went back to an older offer.

The Lakers knew that the Pacers might take Lamar Odom and Andrew Bynum for Jermaine O’Neal.

And the Wolves knew what the Celtics were offering for KG — the No. 5 pick, Al Jefferson and Theo Ratliff.

The problem now is the Celtics aren’t ready to give up the same package for O’Neal, and the Pacers reportedly never got roped back into the deal.

At least one other GM believes that Taylor isn’t going to trade KG to the Lakers (a.k.a. the enemy) and would have eventually balked anyway. If that’s the case, someone needs to sit him and Kevin McHale down and tell them that, at this point, getting some first-round picks and massive cap room would be a good deal for KG. If they wait much longer, he’ll walk for nothing.

So, anyway … what has to give? Either the Celtics decide to include Jefferson in the deal (very, very unlikely) or the other three teams try to find a way to sweeten the pot for Minnesota.

How about this crazy thought? Maybe the teams eliminate the Pacers from the conversation, and Boston takes back Odom and Bynum. Then Boston offers to sweeten the pot by sending the Wolves back their 2009 first-round pick that the Celtics acquired in the Wally Szczerbiak deal and the Lakers throw in a future first-round pick to boot.

I actually think getting Odom and Bynum makes more sense for Boston than getting O’Neal at this point. Put a starting lineup of Rajon Rondo, Paul Pierce, Odom, Jefferson and Bynum on the floor with Delonte West, Tony Allen, Szczerbiak and Kendrick Perkins coming off the bench, and I think the Celtics are right back in the playoff picture in the East.

As for the Lakers, if this deal falls through, I think acquiring a player like Zach Randolph could be their backup plan.

• The Suns and Celtics’ big workout of top prospects actually began on Monday when the team flew to L.A. to work out Yi Jianlian. Steve Kerr, David Griffin, Danny Ainge and Doc Rivers were there to put Yi through another workout.

On Tuesday the team execs are back in Phoenix to see Joakim Noah, Corey Brewer, Brandan Wright and Jeff Green.

There is still a lot of speculation on what draft pick the Suns are targeting in a trade. Everyone has a theory. Some say it has to be the Celtics’ No. 5 pick — something that that both teams deny. Others point to the Bobcats, who are shopping their picks.

I like that deal. Getting Odom and Bynum would shut Pierce up. The Celtics would have three quality big men under the age of 24 in Bynum Perkins and Jefferson. Odom would flower away from the triangle offense, which he loaths and has never really gotten. That deal makes too much sense to ever happen.

We could have had Amir Johnson but for the promise to Orien Greene.

Did you watch any OSU games? Conley WAS the team’s leader. Scored the game winner in the team’s biggest game (Wisconsin). Law is a great option at 11. He will be good at the next level, but Conley will be better.

Conley can’t hold Law’s jock. You have to be able to shoot. Conley can’t shoot. He is not big like Jason Kidd. Maybe in a couple of years he develops a jump shot and is effective, but Law will be effective right out of the box. The only reason people like Conley so much is that he played in the little 11 and got press. If AC Law had played for UCONN or somewhere where he got some press, no one would be taking Conley over him.

Tony Parker can’t shoot either, not when he entered the league. He still can’t honestly, but he does enough of an impression of a shooter to keep people honest. Conley as a freshman was the leader of a team that was better than 337 of the other 338 teams in Division I. Law will be very good. I saw enough of both their games to see that. Acie Law played in the Big XII so press was not a problem. Their classic against Durant was great TV. Conley at 3 is too high, but if Conley and Law are both there at 6, I take the playmaking, quickness and finishing, and exceptional decisionmaking of Conley. (his assist:turnover at his age is outstanding) The shooting will come, you can learn that.

boscel33 said:
  This trade will happen, it will just not include AJ. How about screwing Minnie over and sending the #5 and a contract right to Indy for O’Neal.

That wouldn’t be screwing Minny—it would be screwing the Celtics.

Conley is the third best player in this draft, and the GMs drafting at #3 or worse are going to be kicking themselves for not taking him. Conley has “it.”

halfman/halfoyster said:
  We could have had Amir Johnson but for the promise to Orien Greene.
——————————————
And he’d have been riding the bench for Doc Friggin’ Rivers. He’d be a bigger Gerald Green. He’d be clueless defensively because he’d have had no coaching. And no playing time. You can consider his talent….but if he’s completely midmanaged, really doesn’t matter. It’s a straw dog, Halfman.

—————————————

By getting O’Neal we’d screw ourselves. For the 5th choice or anything else. 50 game max….An abomination salary wise….and attitude wise.

you guys are underestimating Jermaine O’Neal…he is exactly the type of player the Cs need. ..Shotblocker/help defense…can score in a variety of ways..and still can play 1 on 1 defense… plus he can play the high post on offense..

1. could be the next jermaine o’neal but that is the gamble you take. You get him now albiet at $18 million a year..

The guy played 69 games last year and could have played 6 more games at the end of the year but chose to take it easy as the Pacers were out of the playoffs. He missed 13 games last year and the team went 3-10. Last year was unlike years past when they had a quality team. He carried them in the games he played in last year.

However I would never give up big al for him. If he didn’t make so much money ..say $8-9 million i think the c’s fans would appreciate him more.

If Horford slides to #5 and Dummy Ainge has shipped out the pick for some Pierce-appeasing veteran, then the severest of rebukes will not be adequate. Horford will be an all-star in three years, and might even surpass that perpetually fatigued weakling Kevin Durant. Much like Brandon Roy sliding in 2007, the idiocy of GM’s in assessing “upside” might result in the best player (after the top 2) being available. Unfortunately, we have the biggest idiot in the NBA running our team.

Trade Pierce. Build a Team. Draft Conley, Horford or Brewer.

Jermaine O’Neal would be a financial stranglehold on this team.

Cousin It said:
  Jermaine O’Neal would be a financial stranglehold on this team.

What else is new?

There’s no way Horford slides to the C’s. I think if the C’s can get Jermaine O’neil for the 5th pick that’s a pretty good trade, even if he does have a ridiculous contract. PP, JO, and Al could be a dangerous team.

I think there is a real chance Horford will be there. He doesn’t fit with Atlanta. They already have too many players like him. You watch, Atlanta will go for upside and take Brenden Wright. Memphis has drank the Conley cool aide and will take him, good luck watching him brick open 15 footers for the next three years. That will leave Horford at five. I really think there is a better than 50 50 shot he is there and he is absolutely the pick for the Celtics.

I agree John. No one thought Brandon Roy would slide to us last year. Always count on Atlanta to make a bad decision. Unfortunately, count on Ainge to make a worse one.

All I know is the mass sports media is having a field day with all of us. Maybe we should try and start our own rumors/bonfires and let the sports reporters run around like headless chickens trying to figure it all out.

I just want the draft…

It’s going to be a disaster, most likely. Ainge will trade the pick for a 2 year rental of a discontented Marion. Maybe he’ll get some late first round picks back. Phoenix doesn’t want them anyway.

Nick Young? Yuck.

The interesting thing about Memphis – we all give ALL the credit to Danny, when it comes to the draft. But how involved was Chris Wallace? Aside from the Kedrick Brown pick, he didn’t make a mis-step in the draft the 2 years he was here, and had some level of input to the Ainge picks. Guess we’ll find out how much, over the next couple of years

Oh, sory – my point was, it seems pretty obvious Wallace is a Conley guy, and Danny is not. Wonder who is right?

yahoo sports reports that pierce wants out of boston UNLESS boston gets a vetren player .. uhh ohhh… shoulda traded for KG

Its going to be funny Brick.. If this does take place.

He wants a vet to chase to help gain that piece of the glory pie.. if these means us giving everyones favourite player like Al Jefferson he will quickly end up one of the most disliked people in a hurry.

I dont mind keeping him , simply because there is no guarantee of someone being that go to guy yet..but not an absurd price.