The Other Shoe?

i honestly believe we are gonna get garnett

2007-08 lineup

pg:rondo/FA VET/pruit
sg:Allen/TA/Pierce
sf:Pierce/gomes
pf:Garnett/Big Baby
c:Perkins/Fa vet(PJ Brown)

do you think this roster can win a championship? I only do this deal if I am sure we can win a title in the next 4 years. Or would we be better of going after a borderline allstar to team up with Big Al in the front court……I’m sooo torn on this I havent even gone to bed yet lol

Win a championship? The roster above doesn’t get out of the East the first year, and after that goes south.

I’m sure Mike Mussina will be available after September 30th after Danny wants to go in another direction.

My worst fear…Danny trading instead of drafting.
With Isiah getting Randolph for peanuts last night, the worst GM in game rep could go to Danny.
But then again without Pierce our young guys couldn’t beat anybody and Allen is an upgrade over Wally. Always has been a great guy too.
Maybe Glen Davis morphs into Sir Charles.
My biggest problem is we needed a big and defense not scoring and we whiffed.

if Danny

Some of the great wing players and point guards that have forged on as very productive starters into deep old age as some of the fans across the country see it:

Alex English – 35
Jordan – 34
West – 34
Greer – 34
Payton – 34
Drexler – 35
Miller – 35
Richmond – 34
Rick Barry – 33
Mitch Richmond – 34
Earl Monroe – 35
Erving – 36
Lenny Wilkens – 36
Sam Jones – 35
Tiny Archibald – 34
Tim Hardaway – 35
Dennis Johnson – 35

“We got by far the best player in the deal.”

Um, for what, the next 2 seasons? I love Ray but he becomes an old Reggie Miller soon.

we traded for one guy that is 32 and played only 55 games last yr and is coming off surgey and another that played 63 games in 3 yrs and we somehow got the better end of the deal. got to love the grass is half full outlook.

Do you guys think that the rashard Lewis for Ratliff and a future first deal is off? Seattle would have two big contracts that might be paid for by insurance next year by taking Wally and Ratliff.

The trade oddly puts Sebastian Telfair in a stronger bargaining position.

From the Herald’s article “Celts land Ray of hope: All-Star guard acquired in trade”:

Asked if the deal leaves the Celts with just one point guard (Rondo), Ainge noted that Sebastian Telfair [stats], who was arrested this spring on gun charges, is still here.
    â€œSebastian’s with our team right now,” Grousbeck said. “Sebastian’s on the roster. Sebastian and I talked shortly and had a discussion. It’s a long time ’til November. We’ll see what happens.”

That’s an about-face from Grousbeck’s original reaction to Telfair’s latest gun violation.

All injuries being equal, Ray Allen is great leader and scorer while Wally is not either of those things.

Allen was a Western Conf. all-star last season.

Why is it assumed that Allen’s career is over? Didn’t Al Jefferson have bone chips removed from his ankle last season? I don’t hear any panic talk about him. By all accounts Allen eats a great diet and keeps himself in impeccable shape. Do you think Ainge would have traded for him if they thought his career could be over? This sky is falling stuff is incredible.

Did you all want the Celts to draft Yi and than sit at with a cap of 35-40 wins for the next 4 years until Paul walks or is traded at the free agent deadline? That’s what drafting another young player bring us.

Well Jeff, the good news is you won’t have to worry about your site crashing anymore.
   I can’t believe the C’s had the #5 and 32 picks in whats been billed as the best draft in years, and came away empty. This team is going to be a lot less exciting and interesting, and a little better for a couple years. I’m so disappointed in Ainge and the entire organization. No vision of anything.

That last sentence should read:

Did you all want the Celts to draft Yi, Green, Wright, Brewer, etc. and than hang around with a cap of 35-40 wins for the next 4 seasons until Paul walks or is traded at the free agent deadline? That’s the future that drafting another young player brings us.

Reggie Miller was pretty damn good when he was 37 :P

We were able to keep Al, Rondo and Green. In 2 or 3 seasons they will step in as the core, and by that time they hopefully will have a lot more experience.
In that time we’ll have 2 allstarts in their prime to compete and teach the youngers.
We have also Perk, Tony and 2 or 3 first and second round draft picks. We have also Theo’s contract.
What is not to like about this?

Like alot of people I’m ambivalent about this.

I like Ray Allen.

He’s 32.

I think you have to KEEP Jefferson now.

Go get Gerald Wallace[. And the best veteran point guard you can find. Then I think this makes sense.

No to Garnett – not at the price we’d have to pay.

I’m surprised there aren’t more people in favor of this trade! Ray Allen is easily an upgrade over Wally and we got him pretty cheap. I loved Delonte’s heart and effort, but he didn’t fit in with this team at all. Too small to be a 2 guard, not good enough to be a point. We now have two proven studs and held onto a lot of our young talent!

I don’t trade AJ. I’m not for trading him at all.

We need a vet PG and tinker some more during the season.

Go get gerald wallace to play where exactly ?

Power forward? The only solution now is at center and point guard if we want to improve defensively

I think Gerald Wallace would be perfect for this team now. Energy, defense, athleticism – we need more than just a 5 man rotation, and we just got older. Gerald would not only take minutes from a starting core of Pierce, Allen, Jefferson (toss Tony into this group too) coming off serious injury, he also would allow us to age without the sudden drop off of either leadership or talent of losing Pierce and Allen down the road.

Now it may be the price is too high, or he wouldnt be willing to play that role. But I think if he could be gotten, and willing to fill this role, he’d be great.

This was a horrible, horrible trade. No disrespect to Ray Allen, but this trade reeks of desperation. You make this deal if its the one move that’s going to put you over the top, but it makes no sense whatsoever to make a trade like this when all it does is make the team mediocre again. Allen is soon to be 32 and just had ankle surgery, and he has $50 mil remaining on his contract. Ray Allen is a used sports car, that’s showing signs of engine problems, but hey at least he’s shiny. I couldn’t be more unhappy with this trade. This has disaster written all over it. The Celtics have no plan and no direction. This team is going to be nothing more than mediocre at best for the next few years.

Boy this one is hard. First we have to suffer through some God awefull basketball for a number of seasons, then when we actually have decent draft position for the last 2 years we have to go and trade it away before we even draft. I really was looking forward to one night of excitement. Just one night, it isn’t asking much really. I could of at least been excited about Yi until maybe next November. Maybe a reason to watch the summer league. Please give me something. Anything.

It just feels like we are waiting for the other shoe to drop and do something else incredibly stupid. Like trading Al so we can have 2 years of mediocrity and then 10 more years of rebuilding. We were here when Danny took over and he blew it up because he determined that it wasn’t going anywhere. Now he panics and does the same thing himself to get back to the same place he started.

This is just a rudderless ship. I could swim in coolaid today and it wouldn’t help.

what! like the old song- is that all there is ? when was the last time someone saw allen play defense? when was the last time someone said we need defense and a big man? allen is better than delonte but for how long? the #5- let’s say green, won’t be walking thru that door. i see an image covered by fog. i hope danny knows what the heck he’s doing. big baby?

 It is offical we have the worst GM in NBA History. The guy is 32 does not fill a position of need. I hope the fan base shows them what they really think of this trade. Danny should be fired for making a trade striclty based on saving his job. WOW Wyc was it worth it to maybe the 6th seed in the LEAST, because that is where that trade puts this team.

Didn’t I read and watch that Danny said just a day and a half ago he was keeping and picking at the #5?

So here’s the deal as I see it. You have about a 3 year window to do what you have to do and make a title run- and then it is 3 strikes and you’re out- rebuildamania.

If there was a way to stay young and competitive for years to come I would have personally gone that direction. It seems like the “buzz” from the draft is that Danny was desperate and the Ray Allen move was the wrong way to go.

Remember last year at this time when this site had a majority predicting we would win about 45 games and be playoff bound. They are saying Allen doesn’t make Pierce better and visa versa and neither help Big Al- throwing parts together. Those aren’t my words, they’re NBA analyists. I have seen 3 sites where we are being calle the new LA Clippers, and that’s not a compliment.

Word is Allen’s not washed up, but he’s not the elite player he once was and has a lot of mileage on him. Again, not my words, NBA analyists. Talk is Cs mortgaged their future to save Danny and Doc’s jobs.

I am cautiously pessimistic. I don’t think Danny has pulled a rabbit out of his hat with this trade. Sure I take Allen over Wally, saddens me though that we blew a top 7 pick last year and lost out on a talent on #5.

I just realised we traded a top 10 pick 2 years in a row..

Zach Randolph will have a greater impact with the Knicks (both on and off the court) as Ray Allen will have for the Celtics. If we were going to abandon the draft (1st round at least), and winning at all costs was the option; pencil me in on taking Zach over R. Allen. Zach was a better fit for the Celtic basketball needs and by chance we hang onto Telfair, there’s a buddy for him to cruise around with.

Welcome to the 07-08 Boston Celtics! Come watch the regression of Al Jefferson, Tony Allen and Rajon Rondo as Paul Pierce and Ray Allen play a 48 minute game of H-O-R-S-E against each other every night! The NBA, it’s fannnnntastic!

The only upside to this trade is having Ray Allen and Allen Ray on the same team.

Danny, obviously, was acting on orders from on high. The real motive for acquiring Allen is as bait to lure or persuade Garnett to come—for among other things, Al. Goodbye Al and goodbye me. Cheers.

IMHO, Brewer, Green, B Wright, and Acie Law will have decent careers and in just 3 years or less, C management will finally see that passing on these guys was the wrong move.

Just like last year, Celtics could have moved up and gotten Aldridge because Raptors wanted to trade down, Danny made a mistake. Just like Danny passed on Roy and Gay, I don’t consider Danny the draft genius any longer. Too many good young players with very bright futures have been passed up the last two years.

Bottom line is Danny still has not been able to put the pieces together and I am cautiously pessimistic the R. Allen deal doesn’t do it either.

Red, ML, Pitino, Wallace, Ainge…Chris Washburn if he hasn’t o.d.

we traded #5 for a player with 1 yr lefy max 2 and is a sg
our strongest position and we added d west a solid playr
who is still improving and has 8 yrs left and now we might
trade big al …run for the hills

Someone should ask Ainge if his 5 year plan is almost complete ..

What i dont get is they brought in so many guys .. sold them to us so hard .. then did THAT.. thats what has thrown us all off..

Last night was like the ending of Sopranos..

Its like cutting "Luke i am your father " from Empire ..

Goodbye me, too.

This move was made on Grousbeck’s orders to mollify Pierce and it stinks. It cost them any cap flexibility they might have had and their third best player. Horrible.

Aside from Portland and Seattle, the big winners in this draft were the San Antonio Spurs, who get the 2nd best 7 footer in this draft with the 29th pick. You begin to understand why the Spurs (who trained the 30 year-old Sam Presti, the GM who fleeced idiot Grousbeck last night) have won multiple championships while the Celtics are still swimming in the toilet— and last night someone flushed it.

When Danny made the Wally trade, NBA analysits said, “What was he thinking?”
When Danny got the Telfair trade, they said the same thing.
Now after draft night last night, it is said again. That’s 3 strikes and your out.

If Danny was in the CASH CAB, he would be walking the streets of Manhattan right now.

nazzbo said “allen is better than delonte but for how long?”

If Ray Allen wanted to play until he was 50, he’d still be better than Delonte. lol

I like the direction we are taking because I want to win now, and I like that we got rid of Wally and West, two guys I wasn’t fond of, I just didn’t think Ray Allen was the right choice of veteran. I was hoping AK47 or Gerald Wallace, guys that play defense.

Anyone think AK47 or Gerald Wallace can still be a fit for this team?

Yahoo is tearing strips off Ainge as well..

You are seeing the final moves in the Ainge era. I was willing to give him a free pass until this latest fiasco. I’m sure Seattle was kicking themselves with delight. I’m glad we could help rebuild them. I’m holding my breath for the next shoe to drop. Maybe Danny can talk Scotty Pippen out of retirement so we can trade Big Al for him. These trades for injured former all stars have not worked since 1986 when we acquired Bill Walton, and that only worked for one year, and then he spent the next two on the injured reserve list. Best case scenario for next year is a 6-8 seed and second round out.

<img src=" http://www.yaysports.com/nba/wp-content/uploads/noah2.jpg" />

Because its funny

Jeff, I’d like to formally request that you implement a Toronto Raptors forum here on celticsblog. The Celtics aren’t worth discusssing any more, except as the butt of everyone’s jokes.

To Celtic Ownership: Let Danny draft – and nothing else. Just what we need; another defensively challenged perimeter player! This is a short sighted move that makes them a mid round playoff team for a couple years. This means no high draft picks…then what happens when Allen and Pierce retire? They should’ve traded Pierce and stuck with the youth movement and the vision of patiently building a perennial contender.

I’ve always defended Danny, but I think I’m done with that!

Yeah thats what this website needs.. more visitors..

Do you even remember last night ..

I especially enjoy reading input from the “experts” on this blog who criticize Danny for his drafting “mistakes” by waiting a year to see who we passed on that makes it big in the NBA. These “back-seat” gurus try to make themselves look good because they have the advantage of BACKSIGHT, an option not available to Danny. As long as the Celtic’s struggle to go for #17 we’ll have these pseudo-experts tell us what we should have done. Nothing is ever good enough!

In truth, every draft produces more disappointments than success stories so the value of “hindsight” is great fodder for criticism. There are others that expect trades where we get something for nothing as though that option was readily available. We have, in addition, a core of bloggers who have PERSONAL favorites and continually beat the drum on MISSED opportunities but quietly retreat to adopt a new point of interest when their favorite player struggles. Fortunately they are not in the limelight so their misfires go unnoticed.

Danny hasn’t been perfect so he’s fair game. He is still trying to “right-the-ship” and satisfy the lust for instant gratification that so many fans seek. Look at Charlotte and their apparent draft mistakes and be satisfied that our GM is ahead of the game. I would agree that Danny’s decisions in this draft are somewhat controversal but let’s wait a year before deciding whether he’s improved the Celtics. Moving BOTH Wally and Delonte seem to be good moves as neither player were expected to be key contributors this year nor core players in the future.

Honestly, of all the rumors out there, this may have been the worst trade the C’s could have made. Why do they keep trying to pair Pierce with another high scoring wingman? Ricky and Paul didn’t work, Ricky and Wally didn’t work. Why do they think Ricky and Ray will work? Who’s guarding anyone on this team? Not that I’m a huge G. Green fan, but he’s pretty much useless right now, until Ray Allen misses another 20 games next year that is. I can’t wait for the C’s to win 45 games next year, and another 45 the year after that. Then they can dip back down to the 35 win level once Pierce and Allen’s wheels fall off. I would have been much happier had they kept the pick and drafted Noah, Yi or kept Green. Hey but at least they picked up two more second round picks who could make the roster. Ugh. Hopefully Big Baby Davis doesn’t eat himself out of the league before November, because Al is going to need someone to help him rebound.

I love the theory that they traded away Delonte West so that over the summer they might have the opportunity to trade away Al Jefferson. Great plan.

Even not considering top 2 picks, which were given to them, Portland and Seattle both made nice moves. Particularly Portland. Its all about management.

Celtics just sit around playing what if and poor me, just like they did when Duncan went to SA, and now they can play the same tired game. They say We had to do the deal for “Paul” because we got robbed by the draft. Who’s Paul? What about ME. I’v been a loyal fan since Havlichek stole the ball, and they just lost lost me.

I spent the bulk of last nite looking for East coast team to follow, because I can’t stay up past 10, and its really tough. I feel like a traitor, but I like what Philly did.

Stop blaming Paul. Danny did he deal. He is the GM.

I’m frig’n HUNG OVER with all this…. waking up to this

I’ve packed my bags and moving to Toronto!!

I would have package Paul Pierce instead,

Explain to me how much better off we are now, really I need someone to tell me that we are not the Milwaukee Bucks of the 80’s

Where is the “Big Man” that we were supposed to get…. Wasn’t this the draft of all ages… shouldn’t we have packed our players to acquire more draft picks….

I’m glad I didn’t renew my Season tickets…. I’m down right bothered by what I see…

I guess I’m still “Hung over” from all this talk over the course of the year leading up to the draft and waking up to a “BAD DREAM”

O.K. For those that think we should have kept the 5th pick, what “sure-fire” player should we have drafted? There were many players with the “potential” to be stars, which ones will actually become stars? Since there are always more busts than success stories, what certain available player is guaranteed to be a success? Therein lies the problem….

A good case can be made that Sean Williams will prove to be the “steal” of this draft. An equally good guess is that he will continually make BAD decisions and become irrevelant. Where are the guarantees that we made a mistake with the Ray Allen trade? Unlimited POTENTIAL always looks irresistible! Gerald Green is an example of that fantasy.

What poll? Where’s the radio button that lets me vote for Wyc Grousbreck as a complete idiot? This was Grousbeck’s move— plain as day. Horrible.

im with you moskqq.

Ray Allen will space the floor much more for AJ down low.
West is not very far off his peak. Granted he’ll probably stay there for a while, but he’s not going to turn into a world beater.
Wally, glass ankles, not athletic enough, doesn’t move well at all.
#5, who know what would happen with player X.

I would have liked the celtics to draft brewer for his defense and his ability to gaurd 1, 2, 3 and some 4’s. But getting Ray Allen does add more fire power and veteran leadership. Much more than Wally could.

A part of me thinks DA will continue to trade one large contract for another large contract every year or two just for the ability to make a big wave at a free agent. If he actually does pull the trigger on that hypothetical, is another story.

But it really is not that bad of a trade as everyone makes it out to be. Im sure there will be some gelling issues the first couple of weeks, but I really believe come mid November, early December, we will start to see the benefits of having Allen on the team.

And then don’t forget, we still have theo and his huge expiring contract. That will be used either before the season starts or at the trade deadline (at least it should be used.)

oh and again, people need to get on board with planting the seeds in Durants head to not extend his contract with Seattle and go to Boston. That needs to happen.

   “Get a grip Brick, I initially thought the trade was awful, but ive come to realize that Allen is far better than any or the rookies that are available with the 5th pick, just think about it, maybe 3 yrs down the road they are but even so, allen will be our Reggie Miller, a sniper that will keep opposing teams from doubling Al and PP, and who is to say Allen can not last till he is 36…Miller lasted till he is what?, Dale Ellis lasted till he is what?….I see Allen in the same mold, A reliable shooting Vet…He will be our Robert Horry …This trade may not be fantastic, but I can certainly live with it, besides, im pretty sure DA is not done yet.”

My initial reaction (I’ve been following the team for more than 40 years) was negative. I would have preferred the patient all out rebuild that Brick wants. However, with Oden, Perkins and (to a lesser extent) Horford gone, nobody else was a sure thing. Brewer would have been my choice (less risky than other possibilities with decent upside) but selecting him would have led to dealing one of the core youngsters.

This is just like last year’s draft. While Brandon Roy was a possibility (although he might not have been there given the trades that occurred), he essentially would have completely devaluaed West (in the team’s reasonably ample depth chart of wing players) because he would have gotten the P.T. that wouldn’t have otherwise been much available until after the Pierce injury.

Clearly, Ainge is dumping the overpaid slower white guys (Lafrentz and Wally), pairing them with lottery picks and taking back young players (or picks) that could be booms or busts. Telfair might get another shot after busting last year because his trade value is nil despite the team’s desire to unload him. Big Baby Davis might be this year’s Charles Barkley or Oliver Miller. How did Davis and Horford perform against each other in their multiple match ups during the last 3 years in the SEC? Somebody should look that up.

Weirdly, this draft compares to the draft where Olajuwan (Oden), Jordan (Durant) and Barkley were HOF lottery picks. Wouldn’t it be ironic if, with a second round non-guaranteed pick, the Celtics just drafted the next Barkley?

If both Allen and Pierce return to the durability of their earlier careers (Allen, like Pierce, wouldn’t have been available for trade if not for last year’s aberrational lost games to injuries), this trade will work out. On balance, this might be a better gamble than waitng to see if whoever Danny would have selected for the Celtics at #5 will develop.

Wally and West essentially for Davis (at #35) took care of the need to get another big man (and pruned the relatively well stocked depth chart at the wing positions). If Davis has the discipline to control his weight (and he does have something to prove), he will contribute more up front (where help was most needed) than Wally and West could have as wing players. Likewise, Allen (if healthy) alone could contribute more than Wally, West and the traded #5 (necessarily another wing player vying for playing time) combined could be expected to produce.

With Allen on board, the acquisition of Garnett becomes at least a theoretical possibility if Jefferson, the Ratliff expiring contract and their own former #1 draft pick (for next year) would be enough to get him. Assuming that Garnett would now consider Boston to play with Allen and Pierce, is it better to let Ratliff expire and extend Jefferson or get Garnett (with or without a contract extension)? Garnett will still be in his prime until his short contract expires and, after that, the Celtics would have salary cap flexibility.

If Garnett could be had, the argument as to whether to acquire him will be endless. However, if the decision is made for the Celtics (Garnett still refuses), an extended Jefferson is not a bad consolation prize.

I’ve come back from the ledge and, after more reflection, feel better about last night’s trade.

Oh man, people, get a grip. It’s a great deal. For one thing, someone said Ray Allen is showing signs of a worn down engine or something like that? It’s amazing the lengths people will go to blindly hate on a Danny Ainge move. Ray Allen had his best year as an NBA player last year. Someone want to show his signs of decline? He’s 32, please stop acting like he is 40. People are asking where is the big man? We already have a more than competent big man in Al Jefferson. We get rid of two injury prone players in West and Sczerbiak. On top of that, Glen Davis is going to be a player in the league. What is this garbage that Pierce and Wally didn’t coexist? Aside from the fact that they were barely on the floor together….Ray Allen is far better then Sczerbiak and Ricky Davis. People, please take the blinders off. We made this deal without giving up Jefferson, Ratliff’s contract, any future #1’s, Green and Telfair. Does anyone realize how many other pieces the Celtics still have to trade?

"
  Even not considering top 2 picks, which were given to them, Portland and Seattle both made nice moves. Particularly Portland. Its all about management. "

You’re telling me that they couldn’t get anything better for a young big man from the West that averaged 23/10 other than Steven Francis and Channing Frye? Come on. If this was about getting rid of a bad “character” guy, then why take back Francis? There was not a single quality player they could have gone for? Seattle taking Jeff Green at #5 was also too high for him. Why build around Lewis and Durant when they both play similar games and the same position? Of course, what happens if Lewis doesn’t resign at all?

“I love the theory that they traded away Delonte West so that over the summer they might have the opportunity to trade away Al Jefferson. Great plan.”

Who cares about Delonte West? He was an injury prone combo guard who couldn’t play the point consistently and was too undersized to play the two. He was expendable. He’s a 10th man on a championship team. How many times last year would he go 1 on 3 in a fast break? He was a good shooter and a decent defender, but that’s pretty much it.

Cos and Mosqq

I don’t think people are upset about this trade because they think Ray Allen is a bad player, I for one don’t believe that. My problem is that this is the wrong trade and direction for the Celtics to make. If they were already a strong team and were one player away from competing for a championship, then sure you make this trade. But they are far from it. They need to pick a direction and see it through. Right now, this team is a middle of the road playoff team in the East with no shot of contending in the next few years. So where will we be 3 years from now? They’ve added payroll, which diminishes their chances of future flexibility. They’ve traded away yet another high draft pick, which could have been a good young player. They’ve added a guard who’s on the wrong side of 30, with a big contract, who’s coming off of ankle surgery. Alarms should be going off all of the place. How many times have we seen an older player start to experience some injury problems and then all of a sudden they’re washed up? This was a bad move. The C’s should have followed the Bulls model when Ainge first blew up the team a couple of years ago. But instead they wanted to rebuild and compete at the same time and look where that’s gotten them. This is a bad, bad move.

Portland and Seattle were big winners by virtue of May 22nd, but Portland also stole Rudy Fernandez (why didn’t the Suns take him and then keep him in Europe for a year or two?).

The Sixers also got Derrick Byars in the middle of the second round. Amazing.

Wow what a bunch of crybabies. Listen guys, there were two ways Danny could have gone. One, trade Pierce, and start all over again. You can imagine how the crybabies would be out in full force if that happened.

But Ainge chose, correctly I believe, the second way. He got a proven veteran, while keeping the core of the young nucleus intact. Delonte West was overrated. Ray will help the younguns improve while the Celtics remain somewhat competitive. The kids will get experience in the playoffs— they’ll learn from watching a class act go to work day in and day out. They’ll learn how to win.

Ray Allen can help space the floor and take the double team off AJ and PP. He’s a veteran and has shown better durability than Wally. Wally’s too slow and has bad ankles and even though Ray Allen had surgery, he’s a gamer like Paul. While we gave up a younger Wally for an older Ray Allen and also took on an extra year of salary I believe that the team needs the leadership of a guy like Ray Allen and basically Wally had no trade value. We kept Theo’s contract so that expiring money can be used for AJ (supposing we keep him)

Delonte was insurance at the PG and SG but I don’t think he had much upside and the team is already stacked at SG. Delonte’s a restricted free agent and there’s not enough money to go around to resign on the rookies (AJ, Delonte and Allen).

I’m a little disappointed we didn’t get end up with a big last night. I think Glen Davis will do well under Clifford Ray and anyone you get in the second round that turns out is a bonus.

I don’t think we’re done trading since we still kept a lot of the pieces rumored to be going elsewhere. Obviously, Danny is still interested in Robert Swift so maybe he’s still trying to send a message to his agent that when he’s free agent, the team wants to resign him.

More changes coming …

VT Bill said:
I can’t believe the C’s had the #5 and 32 picks in whats been billed as the best draft in years, and came away empty.
Well, not really, now we have a six-time all-star

Brick said:
Aside from Portland and Seattle, the big winners in this draft were the San Antonio Spurs, who get the 2nd best 7 footer in this draft with the 29th pick.
Sometimes, I think some you prefer speaking about new players you have seen twice than winning games. Maybe, you want to show that you are the only one who really understand basketball.

Brick also said:
You begin to understand why the Spurs (who trained the 30 year-old Sam Presti, the GM who fleeced idiot Grousbeck last night) have won multiple championships while the Celtics are still swimming in the toilet-
Yes, its easy to understand, they have Duncan

That said, I dont exactly agree with the second round picks— I wish they would have taken a flyer on one of these Euros, or picked up a big man.

While I’m EXTREMELY high on Glen Davis’s “potential” and while I remain skepticle that Gabe Pruit will become an effective NBA PG, there is a stronger possibility that he’ll become an “undersized” but effective SG in the NBA as Ray Allen’s understudy.

It’s apparent that the Celtic’s will need to sign an undrafted PG or sign a veteran PG with the MLE. There is also the likelihood that w’ll be looking at inside size in the SUMMER LEAGUE.

more moves to come….at the press conference both Ainge& Rivers seemed almost somber…thier hearts were not in it,which means to me that Ray Allen will not be here come October..or they were forced to do this deal???somethings not right..the Telfair deal was a flyer and $$$ deal to dump Raef-OK with that..this deal alone is nuts or a prelude to more…time will tell

Allen may last until he’s 38, but does anyone seriously believe the Celtics will cough up the money to resign him?

Without comparing the players in question, the Allen move reminds me of the kind of move a team makes when it’s adding the final piece for what they hope will be a title run or something very close to it (which is not the case for the present squad). Most recently it smacks of the Pistons acquiring Webber. In terms of Celtic lore, I think of the trades for Howell, Silas, DJ and to a lesser extent Wedman.

Old Hondo, your rationalization does nothing for me.

1. The slow white guys Ainge dumped were ones he traded for. Just two of the four experiments to get another “star” to play with Pierce. The first three experiments (LaMarshmallow, Ricky and Zoolander) failed. Now we have Shuttlesworth as #4.

2. Davis is Robert Traylor, a fatty who can’t get three inches off the floor. There is a reason why he slipped to #35. They need a 6-10 (or more) guy who is better than Perkins. Glenn Davis is not that player.

3. The upgrade from West to Ray Allen makes them about 5 games better for then next two years. Then what? And I cringe at the thought of Sebastian Telfair as this team’s backup pg, so maybe they won’t even be 5 games better.

4. This won’t make Garnett want to come to Boston. If they acquire him, it will still be selling 10 years of Jefferson for a 2 year rental of Garnett. Nothing has changed. In fact, Seattle is now in a much better position to acquire Garnett than the Celtics. Offer Kevin Durant along with Wally, Collison,West and a future first, and Garnett would be a Sonic. They’d have to wait 60 days to trade Wally and West in a package, that’s all.

5. Let’s see how many bad defenders we can put together on the same roster. The only guys on the team who can defend anyone are Tony Allen and Rondo.

6. Where does this leave Gerald Green— as trade bait along with Jefferson? My prediction (assuming they can’t get KG): Theo and Green are going to Denver for Camby.

The Celtics have once again attained mediocrity at the cost of any chance to actually be good at some point. Let’s all stand up and cheer!!

Postscript: The true irony is that, if they were to trade Pierce over the Summer, this deal might actually make some sense.

After thinking this over for a couple of hours and listening to Mike Gorman, I have to say my first thoughts were, that’s a pretty good deal and my thoughts still are, that’s not a bad deal.

Loosing Delonte, Wally and the number 5 for a recent All Star, is okay with me.

Rondo made Delonte redundant at the point and Paul, TA and Gerald make Delonte redundant at the two guard.

Wally?? I liked his attitude a lot. As for his actual contribution ??? Not so much.

Number 5?? Well, Yi intrigued me, I liked Brewer, but after Horford went I really did not have someone whom I thought we just had to have.

Paul deserves some legitimate big time help and now, as Mike G. pointed out, he has another genuine clutch player to put out on the floor with him during the fourth quarter. Throw in Big Al and Rondo and that is four fifths of a pretty clutch team. A healthy Perk and I like my finishing five.

If we can get a decent big for Theo and Ryan, I like our roster a lot. The big??? mmmmmmmmmmmmmm, let me think about that a bit more.

I’m still on board.

Go the Green !!!!!

Big Al, Rondo and Gerald = untouchable.

Cheers

Aussie

Terrible trade if this is it. If we go into next season life this then Danny Ainge should be fired immediately. Why would we want an older version on PP with less skills? Great! Two years of early playoff exits! This could set us back from really competing for at least 6 more years.

It does seem to me is what we’ve done is given ourselves a 2-3 year window to try to be contenders. Given that I think there must be more moves on the way. I don’t like the trade right now, just in itself, but I want to wait and see what other moves are forthcoming.

They couldve dumped Paul on Chicago for the 9 & Duhon .. taken Noah and still have drafted Brewer..

Fill the center spot , fill the SF spot and a backup for Rondo.. unite two guys who know how to win and play with each other..

But as Simmons says .. welcome to the No Balls Association. No innovation , always playing it safe.

Meanwhile Danny & Doc guarantee they keep their jobs a little while longer. Motown youre right .. how enthused did they look on TV .. it seems they went with something they never had planned on at any stage ..

The reason that alot arent crazy about it is because they know their was no good intentions behind it .. it was a culmination of emotional blackmail and job security ..

"
  It does seem to me is what we’ve done is given ourselves a 2-3 year window to try to be contenders. Given that I think there must be more moves on the way. I don’t like the trade right now, just in itself, but I want to wait and see what other moves are forthcoming."

Why? Allen’s contract is on the books for what, 3 years? Even if the Celtics don’t resign him, the Celts at that point can build around Al Jefferson.

Allen’s reputation as a sharpshooter may well be deserved. However, his lifetime fg% is, for a 2, an unremarkable 44.6% and last year 43.8%, both of which are below the overall league average and far far away from Reggie Miller territory.

They aren’t going to build around Jefferson, they are going to try to trade him before they have to pay him.

Oh, and we all realize that Ray Allen is coming off ankle surgery(removal of bone spurs from both ankles). The Sonics shut him down on March 18. He had ankle surgery in 2003 as well.

So he fits right in with the Ainge modus operandi.

So, if we do get another “aging” star in the person of Marcus Camby, and if that deal was on the burner during the draft, wouldn’t it explain some of our sequential draft decisions?

As bloggers without the priviledge of “inside” information we sit on the sidelines and hope for roster pieces that may not be available. It’s important to get roster balance but when that option isn’t immediately available, the next best move is to draft for talent and potential upside.

  When talented players slide it’s because serious concerns exist about upside potential or concerns about correcting perceived deficiencies. These are all educated guesses, some fruitful, others mistaken. The true draft expert, besides being lucky, also has a knack for deciding whether negative information is revelant or misdirected. Here’s hoping that Danny is lucky!

mcpu40 .. unlike others i havent reiterated the same few catchphrases the last few weeks.. my proposal seems negligible if they built around Jefferson..
If you dont like it .. DONT READ.

By the way i read that Yi’s reps want out of Milwaukee..

They should move him to the midwest and make millions off using the nickname Yi-Haw.

this is exactly what i didn’t want to see danny do. the trade in a vacuum isn’t bad in that the exchange of talent probably favors the celts. however, this trade would have been excellent for a team like san antonio or dallas or even utah, teams on the cusp of being legit championship contenders. this was the worst possible move for a team like boston. we are looking at maybe 3 years of 2nd round playoff losses and having to start the rebuilding process over again. it is truly disasterous. unless this trade was part of a grand scheme to get garnett, i am done with the nba until wyc grousbeck sells the celtics and danny, doc and paul pierce are gone. maybe if the celtics join the OBA, the offense basketball association, i might follow them again.

mcpu40, they won’t be fun to watch. What’s so great about watching a team that gives up 125 points every night?

Sure, Allen is a great shooter and will space the floor. He’ll space the floor on defense, too.

Brewer is a solid player and I would’ve been pleased to see him alongside Rondo and Al for the next 5 – 10 years. Sigh.

While Seattle got our pick, I’m not sure they used it wisely.

This really ups our three-point shooting. We’ll see what that does…

Step back. Breathe.

The Celtics essentially gave up Jeff Green for Ray Allen. Wally Szczerbiak is a wash, because he’s considerably more one-dimensional and much more injury prone. Delonte is Delonte—a great guy, but we’ve seen his ceiling.

We added an all-star from the Western Conference who, despite missing games last year due to injury, averaged a career-best 26.4 ppg. Yes, he’s a wing player—no, he’s not a clone of Pierce. He’s more of a shooter, where as Pierce is more of a slasher. By being a threat on the wing, teams won’t double Pierce, and he’ll be able to drive and do his thing more effectively.

Yeah, Jeff Green could be a good player. But how does he do more for this team at this point than Ray Allen? And Yi? Please.

And there are probably more moves to come. This isn’t a complete team yet. I doubt it will be Garnett, because this team can’t give up Jefferson. We’ll see though. But seriously. Breathe.

From reading these comments, i can see why people think we are the whiniest fans in the country. Enough with the gnashing of teeth and rending of garments. Wipe your tears away, you nancies.

This deal makes us better than we were two days ago. Oh, but that’s not good enough for us Celtics fans, is it? No, we are so special that every move must be PERFECT, nothing can have even the slightest downside, and there’s literally nothing Ainge can do that won’t result in indignation and lame, unfunny sarcastic comments. Jack McCallum of SI says this was a great deal by Danny, but what does he know? He’s not a blog commenter, so he must be a big dummy.

Sure, Danny did this to placate Pierce. He did it to placate Grousebeck, that monster. It was a cynical attempt to sell more tickets. You’re all so smart, aren’t you? Nobody can get anything past you, the savviest fans in the country.

Would you all have been happier with Jeff “Yawn” Green? When i saw we picked Green I nearly slipped into a coma. I would have liked Corey Brewer, but he would not have improved us as much as Ray Allen does. By the way, mister “downside of thirty” averaged 26 points per game last season. I bet there’s a lot of young pups in this league who would like to have something close to that even once in their careers. Jeff Green never will. Brewer never will. And I doubt Yi ever will either.

All in all, we got the best of this deal. We unloaded Wally’s monstrous contract, shipped away a draft pick that probably wouldn’t have helped us for a couple years, if ever, and lost Delonte West, who i will miss, but if you think we’re going to miss him terribly on the court you are dreaming.

Also, let’s stop criticizing them for moves they haven’t made. There are several comments here that are tearing Danny apart for trading Al Jefferson, which HE HAS NOT DONE. That is how incessant and pathological the negativity is around here. Take off the skirts, people. Stop crying. Its okay to be optimistic. The sarcasm isn’t nearly as funny or as clever as you think it is anyway.

Let’s see, we got a veteran all-star for a broken-down SF with an albatross contract, an injury-prone backup point guard with neck tattoos, and a tweener draft pick that I guarantee you three quarters of this board never heard of before the NCAA tournament.

That is an upgrade, definitely. To get great first you have to get better. We now have a starting 5 with “the best young post player in the league”, a physical all-star 3 who loves to get to the line, and an all-star gunner. Let’s fill in the other pieces with some more grit and defense.

mosqq, it’s Ainge’s job to make the right moves WITHOUT THE BENEFIT OF HINDSIGHT. I suppose we should give all GMs a pass when they make horrible deals or picks because after all, we have hindsight and they didn’t. Of course, that is a completely asinine statement. Nobody here is saying they’d be a great GM. It’s obviously a very difficult job and even the good ones don’t necessarily bring home a championship in this league.

However, we are fans and we do have a right to criticize the product. If Ainge makes a mistake, he should be called out. Frankly, his track record has given him some latitude regarding the draft but NOT regarding trades. I’d think even the most fervent Ainge supporter would agree that the major contracts he’s taken on and signed (Raef, Blount, Wally) have not worked out in the slightest.

Now he’s taking on another aging player who has a big contract and whom doesn’t make this team a championship contender. I love Ray Allen, but he’s not going to be the piece that brings us a title in the next 2 seasons. And after that, we’re going to be a pretty old team with huge contracts still owed Pierce for two years and Allen one.

Anyway, I don’t want to put it all on Ainge because the direction of this franchise ultimately lies with the owners and they want super 34 to be happy. At what cost? Sound, long-term planning for a championship team.

This deal will go down in infamy along with the short-sighted RR & Delk for JJ fiasco. Later this summer, when Al gets dumped for Garnett and two years of 51 and 47 wins and then Armaggedon, we will have supplied the rest of the league with the makings of a winner: JJ, Billups, Al and quite possibly Yi.

Oh yeah, I’d also like to point out that it’s not hindsight when a lot of people questioned the Telfair deal when it happened.

I don’t know that I’d call it a “shoe”, Jeff. More like a hobnail boot on the head of long-suffering fandom.

I’ll reserve final judgment till the other moves are done. The team as constituted now can fill it up offensively, but the worst defensive team in the NBA in recent memory got even worse with this deal.

That all said, Ainge is right — you don’t often get the chance to pick up an all star — and they really didn’t give up much — at least in the short term. Delonte’s a career backup. Wally was damaged goods, and there’s no certainty with the draft pick. Hopefully they’ve done their homework on Allen because the franchise bottoms out if he’s Wally II. They need to get some defenders in here in a hurry, especially up front where they flat out suck right now in that department.

I’ve heard them called more of a half court team….you can’t play half court if you can’t stop anyone, so let’s see where else they go.

This team in my mind had 2 choices, deal Pierce and go with all youth or keep Pierce and get him help. Garnett was the first choice for option 2 but it (as yet) didn’t work out. Allen’s Plan B. Let’s see where it goes from here, but I’m not ready to abandon ship just yet. I was prior to the draft, but I’m at least a little intrigued with what they’re trying to do.

The Celtics sold their future to become the Washington Wizards. It sucks.

This move was bad bad bad bad bad bad bad but I can understand Ainge’s logic. Allen’s got 3 years left on his contract and Pierce’s will be gone soon after. He’ll make one more move with the Theo contract and then let it rip for the next 2-3 years. I really would’ve liked to see Jeff Green stay here, and I’ll miss Delonte but it should be interesting to see what else he’s got up his sleeve

I liked the trade. I’m one of the very few who liked the RR & Delk trade. I enjoyed watching my team make it to the Eastern Conference finals. I enjoyed watching the greatest playoff comeback in NBA history. I enjoyed watching Paul Pierce happy for a change.
I don’t enjoy watching us get younger and younger and lose more and more games. Sorry, you want development? Tune in to NBDL.

Add me to the miserably dejected. We needed height, and could’ve had Yi, Hawes, or Noah. Instead we get an over-the-hill, over-paid guard that doesn’t play defense. And for crying out loud, why Gabe Pruitt, a short 2 guard, when at the point guard position, Sun Yu, Jared Jordan and Taurean Green were all available? I’m beside myself.

AINGE IS A GENIUS. He’s put the Celtics in a position to win. He’s spun poop into gold. Here’s why:

1. You give Minny Jefferson, Green, and Theo for KG. KG, Pierce, and Allen can beat anyone, including the Spurs. How can KG not look at playing with Allen and Pierce in the East and say “Yeah, we could win it all.” Any trade for KG won’t happen until July because KG gets a trade bonus at that time.

2. Allen is HAPPY to be coming back to the East. His wife and kids live here.

3. Even if they don’t get KG, a core of Allen, Pierce, and the emerging Jefferson can easily win the East and get them deep into the playoffs. Getting KG takes them to the championship.

4. By getting the pick from Seattle, Danny drafter two young talents that now have time to develop and replenish the Celtics roster without costing them wins.

5. They get into the playoffs, which gets Wyc playoff money, and keeps ownership happy.

6. We’ll be paying max money to a guy who should be on the floor for a lot more games than Wally and West.

7. Pierce and Allen have both carried teams by themselves (I think Allen’s low FG% is because he’s had to take a lot of bad shots for mediocre teams). Together, who do you double team if you’re the opponent? Allen? Pierce? Jefferson? Have fun deciding on that one.

8. Rondo drives and dishes to open shooter Allen and Pierce. Perkins understands his role as rebounder/defender/enforcer. Nice complements to Allen/Pierce/Jefferson.

Ainge did a hell of a job. If he lands KG, then everyone who should thank Ainge for making the Celtics relevant again.

Now that we traded Delonte away, how do we keep Master Po from bolting to another team. Bet that possibility escaped Danny when he made that trade; The Turd!

The Turd is Danny, not Master po, just in case.

I was against bringing in Garnett before if it meant giving up Big Al, but now I would do it. A KG, Pierce, Allen, Rondo group with whatever remnants you keep plus whatever kind of help you could bring in at the 4 (mid level exception or otherwise) that team could potentially win the East – if the coach does his job and if they stay healthy.

Great(sigh)… I get to hear more of that “relevant” horse-dung.

Almost forgot: Pierce and Allan’s contracts expire at the same time, or maybe a season apart. That would be 3-4 seasons down the road, which is when the cream of this year’s draft will have risen to the top and become free agents. He can then sign any of them because for once in the last two decades the Celtics will have the cap room to do so.

Danny has pulled a Michael Corleone as far as I’m concerned.

There’s nothing new I can say, other than that the negativity around here is ridiculous, which isn’t new either. I’m not completely sold on this move, but it is intriguing, to say the least. Stop pretending Ray Allen is Theo Ratliff. He’s not. He’s still a great player, with excellent character and leadership. He’s not 40 years old, he’s not broken down, he’s not Ricky Davis. He’s a classy veteran who can flat out play. And it cost us a high draft pick. That may come back to bite us, but at some point this team had to make a move. They have direction, now: try to win now while keeping the young core intact.

I’m also ecstatic Ainge has made Ray Allen “happy.” It wasn’t enough for me, us having to keep Paul Pierce happy.

GROOOOSSSSSSS!!!!!

I couldn’t sleep last night. I honestly felt even more sick than when that dude opened up the Celtics envelop at #5 last month. After 5 weeks of recovery, and feeling better about the quality of the player we were going to get at #5 (and Yi being there), This F’ing retarded, moronic, cursed, short sighted bunch of marons go and trade it for a 32 year old shooting guard coming off double ankle surgery. ARGH!!!!

I quit. I’ve absolutely had it as a Celtics fan. I had softball at 9pm last night, and you should have heard everyone at the field. No one could fathom why you would trade the #5 for 32 year old! Guys, 32 in Basketball is OLD!

This deal was done to placate Pierce. Sorry, I can’t see any other reason why they would do it.

Big Baby? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

How do you not get something better than #35 in return? How?

Red is puking in his grave.

DA & the C’s should send Jordan a thank you card cuz he spared them from being the biggest embarassment on draft night.

This deal ensures we win 45 games for the next 3 years. WHOOPDIE FRICKEN DOOOOO! >:(

…and if Marcus Camby is on the way….The defensive “Player of the Year”…has our defense been so miserably corrupted?…IF Marcus Camby is on the way….

For what it’s worth, Chris Mannix at si.com is calling the C’s the big winners in the draft:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/chris_mannix/06/29/draft.rehash/index.html

Does anyone know how they’re reacting to this trade in Seattle? I’ve read a couple of posts on Sonics boards and they also think they got hosed. So we got that goin for us…..which is nice.

A lot of people will be changing their Celtics hating tune when they actually watch Ray Allen play. Sweetest J in the league.

After making this deal, the Celtics are still the 4th best team in the Atlantic Division. Let’s all stand up and cheer.

NY just acquired Zach Randolph to go along with Curry down low. Those two truckers make Glenn Davis look like a Volkswagon Beetle. Jersey still has its big three (they will resign VC), they have Krstic back, plus they’ve added a shotblocker and will likely resign Mikki Moore, who is way better than Perkins. And my Raptors, who had no draft picks, still have Bosh, TJ Ford, an improving Bargnani and the vastly underrated Anthony Parker.

Sure, trade away Big Al. Trade away Green too. I really don’t care what they do at this point.

Brick, I live in Washington and (though I’m a Celtics fan) watching the Wizards is LOTS OF FUN. Yes, if you’re a basketball purist, you worry about defense… but but if you’re a normal guy who just likes to see great plays and lots of scoring, it’s a blast! I LIKE that we’re the Wizards. We could do a lot worse. Hell, here in DC folks are happy about the Wizards’ recent successes — they enjoy the playoffs, no matter how they last, and that’s good enough. Maybe it’s because we have LIVES down here :)

Let me also say that I really think folks are underestimating Perk in all of this. I think it’s highly likely that Perk, after an off-season of conditioning, will have a breakout year similar to Big Al’s last year. I also expect improvement from Rondo, to the point that we’ll all realize he’s a genuine starting NBA point guard. In other words, these trade will leave us with five strong starters — yes, only two of them with any defensive skill (Rondo and Perk), but strong starters nonetheless. That’s good.

And as for defense, we still have Tony to come in and play shut-down D when necessary… and now, with Ray Allen on the team, we can rest Paul when Tony comes in without losing ALL our perimeter offense.

The big loser, I agree, is Gerald. He should be humbled by this trade.

The last pieces I think we need are a genuine backup PG — one who can handle a team maturely and smartly for, say, 12 minutes a game — and a genuine backup C/PF — one who can play interior defense better than Al. We have Theo to help get us one of those things and the MLE to get the other.

This is a good team, people. It’ll be fun to watch, it will DEFINITELY mean the playoffs for at least a couple of years, and that REALLY needs to be good enough!

Trading the 5th pick this year, after trading our lottery pick last year, has set the Celtics back another 5 years. When will the mediocrity stop? Not in my life time (sadly). The Bulls have rebuilt through the draft. That is the way to do it. Time for this ownership, front office and coaches to go too.

I get uncomfortable whenever I hear a grown man describing someone as having the “Sweetest J” in the league. It always suggests a passion for style over substance (and a lack of interest in defense).

The negativity in this town sucks and it stinks and it sucks…why is everyone so upset, we didnt trade any of our strong assets away in this deal. The #5 pick would have done nothing for us right away. We just got a 26 ppg ALL-Star who can play next to Paul Pierce. There is another deal out there, you are naive if you think that this is it. Can you imagine a Lineup of Rondo,Allen,Pierce,Jefferson,Camby? That gives you pretty good defense at 1,3,and 5 and Big Al’s defense will only get better with time. So really the only defensive liability in that lineup would be Ray Allen who definitely isn’t a bottom tier defender. Stop panicking everyone, last time i checked Garnett,Camby,Boozer,Kirilenko,and Gerald Wallace are still out there and Zach randolph is off the market(and should be because of his awful lifestyle/attitude especially in New York…stupid Isaiah). I cannot wait to see how well this team will play next year, and now a lot more FA’s will look to sign here in the next couple of years as well. Great Job Danny.

yes, he does have the sweetest J in the league. it translates to him being one of the best pure shooters in the league as well.

i suppose it would be better to have wally clanging 3’s off the front of the rim when teams collapse on pierce and al.

First let me say, I am not against the Allen trade and I think it is setting up KG, which would make this a really good trade. But I just wanted to point this out which I think is wicked funny:

Everyone always made comments that Ainge is a great drafter and he has done so without ever having a lottery pick. If only he had a lottery pick. The last two years he traded away our lottery pick. ;D

Let’s stop insisting that Telfair was the central part of the deal that sent Raef out and Ratliff in. It was a money move first and foremost. As in other previous Danny deals, let’s see what Ratliff can bring us before insisting that we got “hosed” in that deal.

You can look forwards, or look backwards. Ray Allen is a look backwards. Other teams will be getting developing production out of Yi, Noah, and Hawes. We’ll be concerned with nagging injuries to Pierce and Allen.

Allen: 44.6% lifetime, 43.8% last year. Not Reggie Miller stats.

To quote Bill Simmons, when I heard about the trade “I just threw up in my mouth and some of it went up the back of my nose.”

Assuming people stay healthy this season, the Celtics needed to do two things this summer to get better: can Rivers in favor of Carlisle, Adelman, or Brown, and make a decent pick. We’re not talking future all-star here. Just someone who could contribute. Pierce and Al stay healthy, we’ll be 15-20 games better than last year. Was this too much to ask?

Apparently so.

We needed defense and size. So of course Danny traded for a shooter who, according to ESPN.com, was moved because the Seattle GM thought him a “defensive liability.” Everytime I think I’ve seen the outer limits of Wyc, Danny, and Doc’s inability to recognize their mistakes, much less learn from them, the trio dazzles me again.

As long as Pierce and Jefferson are healthy, the Celtics are not a team that will have trouble putting the ball in the hoop at a high percentage. They lose because they don’t defend, they don’t take care of the ball, and they don’t execute late in games (read, bad coaching). So we trade for a guy who is not strong on defense and who turns the ball over 3 times a game (assist to turnover ratio of about 1.4).

As noted in the Herald this morning, Danny has a pattern of trading for veteran players with injury problems and massive contracts. Not ONCE has this worked out. Not with LaFrentz. Not with Wally. Next up? Ray Allen, soon to be 32 years old, and coming off double ankle surgery. And by the way, instead of clearing payroll in advance of what will potentially be one of the greatest free agent classes in history, we just took on three years of a max contract.

Nothing new here guys. Wally on steroids. Another vet with a nice shot, constipating contract, and cranky joints. In short, another Danny guy.

Agreed gmliv, I love watching Ray Ray play.

I don’t understand some of the hyperbole people are throwing around here. Something like saddest day since Len Bias? Please!

This trade makes the team better now. There is no denying that. They can’t win the title but there was no move that would make that happen. Who knows what will come up after next season, but the team is definitely better NOW.

Sorry to see Delonte go.

Man, I thought some sleep might help some of you negative people, but I guess not. I really believe most of you aren’t really sure if your angry or not, you just want to be angry. It is what is normal for you. The Celts haven’t won anything in 20 years. You have forgotten how to be happy, so no matter what, you will be angry. No matter what trade or non-trade would have happened last night, the same negative garbage would be here today.

Everyone talks about never coming back again. Moving to Toronto. Becoming a Blazers fan. Whatever. Grow up. I wish we could post everyone’s age next to their comment and I am willing to bet that most are immature irrational twenty-something old people.

I actually don’t think I will be visiting this site for a while and not because of the draft night moves but because so much negativity is just not good.

people here don’t want a good team. they want a bad team. what would we talk about if we weren’t crying about how crappy we are?

mcpu40

They may have a better record than Toronto next year, but over the next 10 years I bet Toronto wins more games.

“Allen: 44.6% lifetime, 43.8% last year”…. one might also add that Allen increased his production to 26ppg, all why playing injured with bone spurs etc. If that isn’t an endorsement on fortitude and courage… Similar to what Jefferson had prior to his surgery and later break-out performance… One might then expect that with surgical correction Allen will improve on his shooting efficiency if that is a present cause of concern…. Statistics can be misused and the above quotation certainly infers a half truth by omitting “the rest of the story”…

The Celtics have clearly decided they NOT going to trade Pierce. You may disagree with it, but that’s the direction they’re going to go.

Given that, this trade was the right move. You keep Jefferson and Gerald. Given Wally’s contract and what it would have taken to resign Delonte, it’s almost a wash financially. In the worst case scenario, the Celts will have a big expiring contract two years from now instead of next year.

If Al really is the 20/10 player he looked like last season, not having Jeff Green or Corey Brewer or ANY of the players available at #5 is going to be a big deal. If Al isn’t really that good, Green or Brewer wouldn’t really make the Cs that much better.

Ainge has to go out and get a vet PG to start or backup Rondo and even if they plan to play Al at the 5, they still need another big stiff.

Mike

mcpu40 said:

“I’ll bet $1,000 that the Celtics have a better record than Toronto next year.”

I’ll take that bet. I won’t take your $10,000 bet, because I would be ashamed to take so much of your money and there is a better chance of actually getting paid if I win the smaller one.

Well, maybe it won’t be too bad from what I heard from someone I know within that they are hoping to land Kirilenko, they’re still far apart…. but both sides would like to get the deal done….

Vegas Green said:
  “Everyone talks about never coming back again. Moving to Toronto. Becoming a Blazers fan. Whatever. Grow up. I wish we could post everyone’s age next to their comment and I am willing to bet that most are immature irrational twenty-something old people.”

I’m probably the oldest poster on this blog, and I’m unhappy with this trade. Age notwithstanding, I would have been perfectly content to see the Celtics build brick by brick rather than go for a quick 2-year fix reminiscent of the trade for Rogers & Delk. Would you prefer to see PP paired with Allen or JJ?

I think this is one of those trades that cannot be judged until we see the next move, if there is one. If Danny is able to trade Theo, Gerald, future picks and maybe a guy like Gomes in a package to get Gasol. Or a smaller package to get a guy like Camby I think the trade makes sense. Say it is Gasol he plays the high post and the starting 5 are Rondo, Allen, Pierce, Jefferson and Gasol. I’ll take my chances. Even if it is Camby in the middle he could play the high post and really help the team defense. I think those are some pretty good line ups. And you still have some of your youth with Jefferson and Rondo.

Have people forgotten how good Ray Allen is just because he’s stashed away in the Northwest? He’s an incredible talent, a great person, and most definitely not style over substance. The guy has a lightning quick shot from anywhere on the court, can create for himself and drive to the hoop, handle, pass, high BB IQ, spacing, moving without the ball, the works. Not great defensively but better than Wally and West, plus he’s a veteran. An all around All-Star level player even in the Western Conference. He has never played with anyone as good as Paul and vice versa.

The job isn’t done folks. We decided to win now, and that’s better than deciding to remain in the limbo we’ve been stuck in for the past two seasons. So be sad that we aren’t going into full rebuilding mode, but get over it quick because we’re looking to make some noise NEXT season, not 5 years from now. and we didn’t have to mortgage our entire future/other trading chips to start heading in that direction in earnest, hardly any of it actually.

Some of the guys here seem to think we traded for Dwayne Wade, and not an over-the-hill, over-paid, defense-lacking Ray Allen.

And what’s with all this whistling-past-the-graveyard talk about maybe another shoe dropping? We didn’t have to make this stupid Allen trade in order to make any other move.

I’m in my 30’s and first followed teh Celtics in the 80’s. Anyone who started with the 80’s Celtics, has earned the right to complain after 20 years of mediocrity, and fools gold. This trade stinks. I like Allen as a player, and the C’s will be better (hard not to be when you win 24 games), but for what? If you are not competing for a championship, or working your way to compete for one, you’re worthless. I’m now in the trade the farm for KG boat because I think that’s the only way to compete for a title right now, and will ensure that we suck in 5 years to the point of drafting high and having to rebuild all over again.

We’re the Washington Bullets. HOW FUN! >:(

i think we’re definitely going after KG now. If we can sign him to an extension, i would even accept trading al for him, as painful as it would be.

Celticsfansince55 – Constructive criticism isn’t a bad thing, I was saying more how most people who post want to b*tch and moan just for the sake of b*tching and moaning.

Like what Monty said " people here don’t want a good team. they want a bad team. what would we talk about if we weren’t crying about how crappy we are?"

No one wants a bad team. But a lot of us don’t want to sell our team’s future for temporary bandaids – like Ray Allen.

Everyone had the same efervescent praise for Wally Szczerbiak when that trade was made. Great shooter, all star, blah blah blah. Then we saw him try to play defense.

Maybe if they can get Kirilenko or Camby they can salvage the offseason, but AK-47 makes 16 million, so they would be paying nearly 50 million for three players and I don’t see where they will find the money to extend Jefferson as well.

Getting the best talent in a trade is Isiah Thomas’s philosophy. As his track record shows, it’s a horrible way to conduct business.

"Everyone had the same efervescent praise for Wally Szczerbiak when that trade was made. Great shooter, all star, blah blah blah. Then we saw him try to play defense. "

Wally isnt even close to Ray Allens level as a player.

I wish I could wake up from this nightmare, and it’d be the morning of the ping-pong draft lottery.

 :’(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vmWazeShXo

I personally don’t see how anyone can complain about the ‘Big Baby’ nickname when we added ‘Ray Ray’ in the same evening.

Wow. I cannot stand the negativity here. I agree with What MCPU said:

They COULD have done this, and the SHOULD have done that.

People: RAY ALLEN is going to be playing for the C’s.

If you hate it, DON’T watch.

I realize this is a forum to complain, but this is a little ridiculous.

RAY ALLEN alongside PAUL PIERCE with JEFFERSON in the middle and RONDO pushing the point should be a fun team to watch.

I just don’t understand this blog sometimes.

It’s not like they traded for Darius Miles.

Its unreal. The celtics just traded 2 bench player and a pick that (may some day) be an average player or allstar but who knows for a PROVEN ALL STAR coming off career highs in average. What do you people want? Drafting Jeff Green or Yi makes us another 30-40 win team next year and probably the year after that. Yes we might have a bright future 3-4 years from know. I have to say most of us here HAVE to be tired of playing for 3-4 years from now. Its been that way for way too long now. C’s are a lock for 45-50 wins minimum this year…book it.

   We went thru a disastrous 2006-7. This season was viewed by many as a time to draft wisely and trade to address the problems of porous defense, rebounding, and toughness. Its more than a little disappointing to come away from the draft with the same problems we went in with.
   One of the things brought up by Mike Gorman in his CSL interview last Sunday was that despite the losing that was going on,, we all sensed progress, and we genuinely liked this kids and they effort they put forward. Now there’s the sense that There all going to scrapped for the latest 2007 plan.
   West can certainly be replaced, probably by Pruitt, but the sense is that Green and Jefferson are just waiting their turn for the next over-aged vet to be available, and we’ll be left with an under-achieving, over the hill group that will walk the ball up the floor and won’t be fun to watch. And won’t win enough to do anything. And we’ll all just get old together, and wait for the next re-build job.

Few key thoughts:

Anyone surprised Brick’s reaction is negative?! We could have traded Allen Ray for Kobe Bryant and he would have found something to complain about.

Still preaching cheap Brick?! They just added 26 million dollars in salary to try to win now and you are still saying they will get rid of Big AL just so they don’t have to pay him. Please…

All the threats and Brick and Ancient Red and a few other of his followers are still crashing this site instead of Toronto’s like they promised… Kind of like Alec Baldwin is still somehow living in the U.S.

This is a great move for us. I hate to lose a guy like Delonte who was the best example of Celtics heart in a long time, but to get a 7 time All Star who still can put up 20 a night and will prevent teams from double teaming Big AL in the block along with Pierce on the other side?! All we gave up is Wally( who I like but isn’t as good a shooter or overall player as Allen), Delonte (who is a stud but is a tweener and never will be a great 1 or 2. Backup on a great team at best) and a #5 pick who no one can agree upon who will be the 1-2 stars out of about 10 guys. Remember our last 1 out of 5 chance at something?!

I think we now go after a solid defensive player with our Theo chip and maybe Green or a pick next year. That or a free agent. No way I get rid of Big AL at this point. We are positioned as we are in the middle of the East. Let’s see what is out there next year. We don’t need to rush and do it all this year because there isn’t one player out there right now that would guaranteed us a championship. Let’s proceed and see where we are come trading deadline or at least later in the summer after some camps…

How sad it is to see so many people that are so negative that they can’t look at this move as a positive direction and sign that the ownership/management is trying to improve the squad smartly. If this makes all your lives so miserable, get another one!

Timdawg, don’t forget to come back here in 3-4 years and explain to us again why it was we traded our 5 pick in 2007 for a former all-star, the one that spent his time with us, hobbling on and off the disabled list.

Well said Timdawgg and greenlove… I am surprised Brick hasn’t thrown his two cents back in. Maybe he is blogging in Toronto by now. LOL.

Kudos to Ainge….The reality is we just added the best pure shooter in the game, to one of the most creative scorers in the game, and the most fluid young post player in the game. All without giving up Gomes, Gerald, Perk, TA, and Rondo. Are you guys kidding me? Ray Allen is gonna get a million open looks. Paul is gonna have to be guarded one on one, and you can’t double Al down low. This is a great move! And for those of you worried about Ray’s age, he’s a shooter. Shooting ability doesn’t fade. He may not drive to the hoop, but he’ll still be capable of 20 a night for the next three years. We’re players now. We still have Ratliff’s expiring contract.

All Danny needs to do now is either turn Ratliff into Camby, or turn Ratliff and Gerald into Jermain O’neal, and we’re legitimate contenders for the Eastern conference.

this is obviously a panic move that lacks vision. another lottery pick handed out (which definitely makes the c’s a charitable organization :D) i hope everyone enjoyed the run from 2002-2005. we’ll find out if it’s a deeper run, but it certainly won’t be a longer run. if both al and green go in trade, there goes the rest of the future. anyway, enough of being bleak. ray allen has a sweet stroke, is a joy to watch and is one of my favorite players. it’s just that the window is too narrow.

FWIW, Allens ankle surgeries were minor. He is going to be perfectly healthy for the start of training.

Its the other Allen (Tony) whose health has me worried. He may be the biggest x factor for the team this upcoming season, as he could either be a valuable role player or a major asset in a trade IF he regains his athleticism. Big if.

Okay, I’m coming around to the trade…but… there’s still a but….

Before the draft would everyone agree we were a 35-40 win team with our prior roster…. (take Jeff Green out of the picture for a min)

With Allen, do we become a 40-45 win team going into next season. Is this enough to team enough to take us into the 2nd round of the playoffs.

Now if Danny is able to pull another trade… say Camby or Kirilenko, then it makes sense…

I need to see what the other piece of the puzzle is before training camp starts to see if this will be a good trade or a lateral trade…..

Just listening to Allen talk on WEEI, he will add Veteran Leadership for sure and maybe take some of the pressure off Paul Pierce….but for how long….

Three years from now….. we’ll be going at it again!

Well I probably won’t be posting as much, which I’m sure will delight many.

Oh, they’ll be a better team with Ray Allen. He’s a nice shooter and a class act. They will be the Wizards or the Nuggets for a few years: 35-45 wins, fringe playoff team. After that, it’s another rebuild.

Had they gone in another direction, they could have become a legitimate upper echelon team instead of settling for perpetual mediocrity. It would have taken another year or two of pain, but it was doable. Now it isn’t.

Toronto is the team that matters in the Atlantic Division, because they have ownership and a GM that know what they are doing. The Raps added Delfino and they will scour Europe to find tough smart players: the ones who beat the NBA’s best every year in international competition. Bosh got his first taste of the playoffs last year and was tentative. It won’t happen again.

Now all the Celtics have to do is trade Jefferson away for two years of KG and the fiasco will be complete.

reason everyone is angry with this trade is that we gave up the #5 for allen basically

Jeff Green nor Yi Jianlian could of helped the celtics this year or next. By the time they get adjusted to the nba, pierce is gone.

Ainge did the right thing to get Allen. Shawn marion could have been a better pick up, but didn’t look like suns wanted to give him up and the money the celts would have had to belt out to keep him after this year was going to be too much

For me i’m just hoping either jeff green nor yi jianlian will be anything more than marginal players in the league. At this current time it looks to be true since green lacks a consistant shot, and jianlian has no defense

Lastly there are 100 more drafts to come, and i think we got caught up too much to be saved by just one pick this year. Impossible if it wasn’t oden, durant

Brick,

Keep posting… never give up!….. never give up!!

Ancient Red, I truly love the way you’re always trying to find the bright side of things. I often try, but today I’m just too destroyed by last night’s events.

Ray Allen and Allen Ray on the same team. I haven’t been so excited since the late 80s when we had Larry Bird, Otis Birdsong, Brian Shaw and Kelvin Upshaw.

If only we cold get Jermaine O’Neill from the Pacers so we’d have two big babies.

These days life as a Celtics fan is just one letdown after another. I was excited about the 2006 draft; then we ended up with Telfair instead of Roy or Foye. I was excited about the ‘06-07 season; then we ended up 24-58. I was excited that Doc’s tenure was approaching its end; then we ended up giving him an extension. I was excited about the possibility of Oden or Durant, or even Horford; then we ended up with #5. Finally, I was excited about the 2007 draft; then we ended up with a 32-year-old injury-prone small who doesn’t play an iota of defense instead of Noah, Brewer, etc. I guess I should have learned by now. Fool me 5 times, shame on me, right?

Now if Mike Conley had been available and if they had passed on him— or even worse, traded him away— then you would be seeing some REAL negativity.

I like the trade. Horford and Conley were gone. We have premier players at the 2,3, and 4 spots. Rondo could be special. We still need help at the 5, but who was available last night? The second round picks seem solid. What’s the deal with Theo, can he play? Cleveland proved that in the East, anything is possible.

is ainge still tradeable? maybe we can get AK47 for him!

Being a Celtics fan on draft night is like being a Knicks fan at the trade deadline – you know before it’s over you will have helped make another team better.

The best punchline of the evening was Ainge’s acquisition of the 35th pick along with Ray Allen. Wouldn’t want to miss out on the chance to pick up our future 11th man.

I like this blog and I don’t expect Jeff to criticize any move the Celtics make, but come on. This trade is so blatantly stupid. We have capitulated to a boderline all-star by importing another non-winner with bad ankles and the end of his career in sight. Much like the Wally trade which passed by uncriticized here (we got the “best” player in that deal too, remember), this is a fantasy basketball move that will implode on court. Pierce and Ray Ray cannot co-exist without a dominant point guard. Even if we could acquire a great PG, we now have the two most indifferent non-big men defenders in the league in our starting line up. I’ll give Ray Ray this – I’d rather have the ball in his hands than Pierce’s in the last few minutes of a game, but if Ray Ray and Rashard Lewis weren’t working, I don’t see how Ray Ray and Pierce is any major upgrade.

The only two people who think Paul Pierce is a franchise player are Wyc Grousbeck and Paul himself. At least Ray Allen has the decency to lose, cash his checks, and not make much noise about the sorry state of his franchise and the perceived insult to his legacy as a player. When this idiotic team trades Al Jefferson for a disgruntled, aging Kevin Garnett, I hope they lose every year in the playoffs to Toronto, a vastly superior team that has done things the correct way. Maybe that’ll put Pierce’s career in proper perspective and keep his number out of the rafters where it most certainly does NOT belong.

For further evidence that this trade sucks, even Tommy Heinsohn is skeptical!

People talk about more moves to come? Didn’t they say the same thing last summer? Iverson? Please, they panicked. Now they have to deal Jefferson for Garnett because their window of opportunity is 3 years max.

I’ve said all along that we should either try to win now, or rebuild. Danny chose to win now, and I’m totally fine with that decision. My problem is that Ray Allen, one of my all-time favorite players, doesn’t fill a need that the Celtics had. They needed a PG, another quality big, and a defensive stopper on the wings. Ray Allen is exactly none of these.

When Danny was a player, he never once played defense. When he was a coach, he never once had his players play defense. Now as a GM, it should be no surprise he puts absolutely no value on defense.

From a talent perspective, Jeff Green, D. West and Wally for Jesus Shufflesworth is a no-brainer. But how does this make the team better?

Now AL Jefferson will get a chance to show his stuff in the playoffs before he is 30.

How did you all expect to keep him around if we had traded his captain for picks and kept drafting and losing every year?

“How did you all expect to keep him around if we had traded his captain for picks and kept drafting and losing every year?”

Because Big Al doesn’t have such an inflated opinion of himself, a la Pierce, that he needs a “co-star” to compete. I’d like to know how you think we can keep Big Al around when he’s the best player the Celtics have drafted (and kept) in eight years, yet he’s shopped around the league because “his captain” has made it clear that Big Al is not the kind of credible “co-star” he wants to play with. And we won’t even get in to the lack of movement on his contract extension…

George Meyer; You couldnt have put it better. Right on.

Why is 32 too old? Michael Jordan won his first title at 30.

This was an awesome deal and I think right now we’re top 4 in the East for next year already.

We got the best player Pierce will have ever be teamed with on the Celts (better than Walker, Ricky D, Gary Payton at that point of his career); got rid [/i]of Wally’s contract; [i]and kept Theo’s contract for another deal.

Allen instead of #5 seems like a reach but maybe Danny can use Pierce for a better player/pick or trade AL for KG…or play the 3 together and see how it goes…today we are better with Allen than the 5th pick..today…and depending on what the next move is will decide if this makes sense…Big AL just got room to roam

People forget, they won 37 games seasons ago with Delonte at the point, Jefferson doing nothing, no Rondo, and the combo of Ricky and Wally.

Ray Allen is a major upgrade over Ricky or Wally, Rondo is a better PG than Delonte and Jefferson is now on the verge of being an all-star. That team had no one average more rebounds than Pierce with 6.5

The way to get this team (and Al Jefferson) to the playoffs was the way Toronto did it, with guys like Parker, Gabarjosa, Bargnani and Calderon, who collectively make about 4 million less than Ray Allen.

Furthermore people are constantly blinded by the draft. You know who Brewer may become? Lamond Murray. I rather have Ray Allen than Lamond Murray

Master Po, the politician…lol

You can be displeased with the direction, but at least we now appear to be committed to a specific direction – getting veterans and going for a title run in the next 2 years. Before, we were stockpiling “assets” and losing more and more games. Now, Danny and friends seem to be saying “screw it – we’re going to use veterans to win now.”

Ray Allen can’t be the last move here. If they can get Garnett for Al, Ratliffe, a future #1 pick and maybe Green or Telfaire, then you’ve assembled a three-headed veteran corp that should get you deep into the playoffs in the East. LeBron was able to carry a less-than-stellar crew to the Finals. KG, PP and RA can certainly take the Cs deep into next year’s playoffs. Miami is old. Detroit’s group looks tired of playing with one another. Chicago and Toronto look to be the biggest threats in the East and either of those clubs is at best a #5 seed out West.

Would I like the Celtics to draft and hold onto young guys? Sure, I think that’s probably the best method for building a long-term winner. But management and ownership don’t seem to share the same sentiments. Let’s give the alternative a try – allstar veterans. It can’t get much worse, right? We’ve won 57 games in 2 years. That’s a horrendous record. Ownership/management doesn’t seem to be patient enough to see the “going young” process through to the end. Since we’re going with vets, let’s get the best vets available. That would be KG.

let’s look at the bright side..last year at this time Danny was trying to unload AL,other guys and picks to get Iverson..Allen is a steal compared to that …

It is sad to see Celtic fans ripping each other just because they have different opinions. Anyone who has watched them last season and has watched them since the end of the Big Three and Reggie Lewis’ death deserves some respect as a true Celtic fan. I mean, that is a lot of bad basketball. If we can’t bond over all that misery, what can we bond over?

Some things that strike me, reading over the more positive responses on the blog here.

Never has the #5 pick in a supposedly deep draft been so worthless. #5 is a “crapshoot”??? And DA collects a salary for what? Is it not a big part of his job to be able to get a all-star at such a posistion, and not a 32-year old one either.

Never has a pair of second round picks caused such excitement in Boston. We have the second coming of Charles Barkley on our team now? Really???

Never has winning the Atlantic title or competing for the Eastern Conference crown been such a suitable substitute for winning a NBA title. I’ve said before that I’m waiting for another shoe to drop. But as the team is presently constituted, is it any better than the one DA helped to break up? It is older, that is for sure.

No overly dramatic gestures for me though, no recriminations or threats of switching teams. No need really. I don’t live in MA anymore, so I can’t get all 82 without spending a good chunk of cash. So I’ll still be a fan, just a fan who doesn’t catch many games and is a little richer for it.

Perhaps the NBA will create a “seniors championship,” as the PGA has done for golf. If Boston trades Al for KG, the Celts could be very competitive in a seniors division. To make Paul happy, perhaps the Celtics could request that the seniors’ games be played half court (so he never has to run).

The Garden is gone. Red is gone. Dennis is gone. Larry, Russ, Hondo . . . they are all gone.

The Boston Celtics franchise has lost its soul. The goal is no longer to win championships, but to merely be “relevant.”

It’s all about — and only about — money now.

Hey, how ’bout them dancing girls!

I’m outta here.

Thanks, Mo for the reminder of that nightmare. 24 wins would have been the goal with the thugster in green. Absolutely right about Allen when making that comparison. With Doc, 40 wins a reality if Theo can play….30 if not. With an NBA head coach. 50 wins with Theo. 40 if not. Sadly, we don’t have an NBA head coach.

dchooligan,

I agree, now you have to go get Garnett and in 3-4 years rebuild.

Well I took a look at some film of Glenn Davis and I feel better about that pick. He is a very good passer, and I like guys who can pass. So maybe there was a small sliver of goodness last night. He’s Michael Sweetney or Sean May with court vision. If he learns to defend he could be quite a useful player.

I looked at some Pruitt film, too, and reminds me of Juan Dixon. I wouldn’t want him running an NBA offense, that’s for sure. If he can shoot as well as Alan Ray, maybe he takes a roster spot, because he is taller and quicker defensively than Ray. But he’s no Delonte West.

It’s funny. I always thought Danny’s snow job was aimed at the other GMs in the league; now I realize it was intended for the fans.

No one can argue that we are a better team today than yesterday. That is a fact Now we need to move on. I say forget Kevin Garnett as a celtic he did not want to come so be it. However vwe can stille participate in a K G deal since we have the expiring contract alon with Telfair and Scalibrine. these pieces should make a threeay trade easy and we should get a good player for a whole lots less than the 22Mil salarey of K G

do not trade al Jefferson or any of the other players left i e Tony Allen Gerald Green Ryan Gomes and Leon Powe. Ias a third party deal for K G Jermaine Onlea et al we should seek a big man who can contribute right away as a solid backup or replcement for perkins or Al.
the trade for Ray Allen sure takes the pressure off of gerald green and gives him space and time to develop. i beive he will be a good replacement for either Ray Ray or Paul in two yesrs. thus we will ahave a solid core of Rondo Allen Green Perkins and Jefferson to cary on after Paul and Ray have begun to slip. we certainly should be able to add to the group with whatever picks we do have in the next three years thus I do not belive we will be starting over again as so many Naysayers predict. I bekive we are in a better position now than we were before Danny gGot here. it has been ainful but necessary after all healing starts with pain. so now we can proceed to get well.

I like the trade. Don’t love it (wanted Yi), but I like it. Obviously, it represents a change in direction, and I expect the Cs to try and trade for Garnett once the LA and Phoenix routes close up. However, even if they fail at making that move this trade DOES help us long term. You don’t develop 8-9 young players at time. There is nothing they can teach each other but how to lose. What the Cs have done is choose Al and Rondo (and GG if he’s not traded) and say, “These guys are our future.” Now what you need to do is teach these three how to win and especially how to compete in the playoffs, which they weren’t even going to sniff without this trade. So, worst case scenario = Al, Rondo, Gerald, Perk, and TA get valuable experience playing in the playoffs for the next three years and when PP and Ray Allen retire or leave, these guys will have become the veterans we need at that point to go with whatever free agent we can snag with the cap room that we will then have freed up. This is far better than adding yet another young player, losing badly for 5 seasons with very little development going on because they won’t be in the playoffs.

Newsflash: every team in the league will be rebuilding 3-4 years from now.

The future is now.

Unless 3 or 4 guys go down with injuries don’t expect to see Big Booby take the floor until the 74th game at the earliest. Doc’s system isn’t learned overnight.

Not Portland. My point was, it’s time to get Garnett at almost any cost.

Brick: Is there no middle ground in your player assessments? Gabe Pruit was compared to Delonte West from the standpoint of having no real position….too small for SG and not especially adept at PG. He is far more aggressive offensively than Delonte and perhaps will not shoot for as high a percentage, but he will be a better scorer than Delonte. Neither player made those around him better and therin lies their respective deficiency at PG.

Glen Davis will be far more productive than Sweetney or Sean May because he has better mobility, ball handling, shooting range with proficiency and strength than either player. His leadership skills are underrated. One important proviso… he needs to get his weight down to 260lbs for maximum effectiveness.

How do the Spurs win? They have Duncan age 31 PF/C – SF Ginobli age 29 – Parker age 25 – PG – Finley age 34 SG – Bowen age 36 and the rest are older role players in their 30’s. Should we go with Jefferson age 22 PF/C – SF – Pierce age 29 – PG – Rondo age 21 and SG Allen age 31 – Perk age 22 and with older or younger role players? Offensively we can compete but defensively we are not as strong. They have Bowen but he can still stop players at age 36 along with Duncan. They have more quickness overall and more experience then the Celtics. So if we are trying to win it all trade for KG and a Bowen type defensive stopper, if not stay where we are and see what happens we still need another center on the team. The older Celtics had a good balance of defensive and offensive players in the 70’s and 80’s and won championships Cowens, Silas, Hondo, Jo Jo and the Big three and DJ and Danny. We just need to balance and get a defensive stopper if there is one or two out there.

Okay, leaving aside the Allen trade (which bothers me to no end), Glenn Davis seems like a sensible shot in the dark.

But why? why would Ainge take Gabe Pruitt, a short, dime-a-dozen 2 guard, when at the point guard position, Sun Yu, Jared Jordan and Taurean Green were all available? Any one of them could’ve spent a year in the developmental league, and then we’d learn if they might be something. What can Pruitt possibly show us?

no kidding – my best guess as to why we picked Pruitt is for his shooting. He’s got a solid stroke that they project out to NBA 3pt range. Is he a poor man’s Delonte West? Guess we’ll get a chance to view that during summer league. :-\

A slimmed down Glen Davis is a solid pick. We just need to keep him away from the all-u-can-eat buffets. He handled Aldridge and the other centers in the SEC.

migit,
Danny Ainge told us we were a playoff team last year without the injuries, Al, Rondo, Perk, Ray and Delonte would have gotten playoff experience without the trade.

Thanks amigo. CFS55, I share your frustration and pain. The Boston Clippers….yes, that is what we have become.

On a lighter note, Mrs. lung actually thinks you are funny…..Now that is a joke….

The trade is going to look even worse when Delonte goes 18-8 in Seattle next year and leads the league in floor burns. He was a serious loss, even though people here treated him like a throw-in.

He could really blossom with a better coach (whomever Seattle hires will be better than Rivers) and playing with Kevin Durant. Noone works harder than West.

I see Ainge as having studied at Cashman’s knee. The only difference is Steinbrenner is willing to pay the luxury tax and then some (or at least he has been willing to do so until now). However, it appears to have finally caught up with him, signing progressively older stars with longer and longer medical histories. I say this as a Yankee fan since ’51.

Does anyone know if we are going for player walk ons during the Summer League? No one drafted a couple of centers in the top 50 projected players listed on the NBADraft.net web site, one prospect was Kyle Visser from Wake Forest. We need a back up center or are we going to have Gomes, Davis and Powe playing center if injuries happen.

Yeah. Just for once I would like the Celtics to not end up in the “Losers” category after draft night. They say Yi is going to demand a trade… any news?

Master Po: I’m not sure what is sappy about the comment that I think it is sad that many of these guys are upset no matter what happens and that they have other options with their time. I do feel like your posts are well thought out, always well put, entertaining with the schtick surrounding the Kung Foo line (often brilliant in fact), and I agree and disagree with your comments half the time equally. This tells me that you are truly speaking your mind and that you are trying to present ideas to improve. Others on this site, who we obviously don’t need to name, know a lot about basketball in general it seems, but have a personal vendetta against management and ownership. There are a lot of things that they have done wrong:

Scalabrine
Doc’s unnecessary extension
Telfair
The Antoine back and forth debacle
etc.

They have also done a lot of things right. The vast majority of the posters on here are so filled with hatred towards these guys that they won’t consider the possibility that these guys are doing everything that they can to win. In their eyes they are complete idiots and can’t coach a girls middle school team, they are too cheap to spend money (contrary to the recent trades proof they aren’t) or just plain ignorant enough about basketball to not be able to make smart decisions. When questioned in here with specific examples proving they are flip flopping, or are flat out making things up, or are wrong, they just ignore the questions and pretend like they were never “caught” in their bad posting. But just try and tell them you aren’t going to bet them about something and they will post 3-4 times calling you out and questioning your “cowardice”. Then to top it all off they make hollow threats to jump ship if ownership does something repeatedly, but are still around threatening to leave. Also, why the Raptors?! If you are going to be a fair weather fan, leave for the Spurs, or Suns, or another perennial contender. The Raptors?!?!?! Why the foreign player obsessment? I don’t care where a player is from. They can play, or they can’t. No one talks about their big problems with buying out contracts and often them staying overseas… Anyway… It is just tiring. Someone earlier said they realize that they realized this board was designed to “complain” about the Celtics but… That really can’t be what everyone thinks is it?! If this is the complaint box on the C’s wall then I’m out of here! This should be a site where we can discuss what is happening with the Celtics, give suggestions for how we think we could improve the team, and OCCASIONALLY voice our frustration with things that they are screwing up on. That shouldn’t be the primary vibe in here.

Without the injuries we were a borderline 35-40 win team last year. Adding Allen we are a 45-50 win team provided we can stay healthy. If we can pick up a defender at the wing then we could really be a 50 win team. Don’t know much about Pruitt, but Big Baby is a heck of a player that hopefully Clifford Ray can get in and improve like he has Perk and Big AL. Hopefully those two can show him how they went from pudgy to ripped and he could be a big player for us in the post off the bench.

I agree with Master Po regarding Delonte West. I too am sad to see him go. However, I think he is now in a much better situation with a team that is on the way up…not down, like the Boston Clippers…..

“why would Ainge take Gabe Pruitt, a short, dime-a-dozen 2 guard, when at the point guard position, Sun Yu, Jared Jordan and Taurean Green were all available?”

Because Sun Yu, Jordan, and Green will all stink? Jesus. What is with you guys? Brickowski thinks Delonte will average 18/8 in a game. My god!

I love how one person said now Ainge will be “forced” to trade Al for Garnett. Yeah, I know. Having Garnett, Pierce, and Allen as a trio in the East would be a horrible consolation prize. This trade was brilliant on Ainge’s part.

Love the deal!!!!!! They are not done either so ya cant judge the whole thing yet.

The negative vibes in here make me laugh. I’m sure that most of you have the experience are are currently running teams rights now. The internet and NBA Live allow a bunch of people think they can be GM’s. It’s funny and pathetic at the same time.

And let’s be real about Brickowski. He claims that the only way to build a Finals team is to have guys with last names that are easy to mispronounce. Someone said it best. The truth of the matter is that he wants to be as condescending as possible and to do that, he tries to make the rest of the Celtic fanbase feel like fools because some of us believe that drafting Nikolai Tsijsafjsd;alkfjad;slfk isn’t the best move. The other truth of the matter is that Brickowski has not seen these players as much as he claims he has and is just trying to pump his own basketball “knowledge” up by regurgitating nbadraft.net bios.

" drafting Nikolai Tsijsafjsd;alkfjad;slfk isn’t the best move "

Funny stuff ;D

Ejplaya, I’ve done more grousing on this site today then I have all year combined. But I strongly disagree with decisions that were made yesterday; ones of major consequence to a team I’ve been following since Russell was running up and down the court, and I was a little kid, who couldn’t figure out what a “celtic” was. So let’s not get all huffy about the complaints.

And absolutely, I’m upset about losing Delonte West. Good luck and farewell to him. There aren’t enough Delonte West’s.

Where are you Brick?! You’re not going to defend yourself?! It’s easy to make posts on here that are rediculous and then not back them up…

Wait, maybe he is out interviewing for open GM jobs. Good luck! You think they will accept on your resume that you knew Jordan should have been picked before Bowie?! I told all my friends…

That IS funny soap07…

no kidding – The discussion and disagreement with decisions is one thing. Hatred of every move made and hollow threats are another… I am also not thrilled with the loss of Delonte. Other than Bird, he has been my favorite Celtic of all time. Not the best one of course, but the biggest heart we have had in a very long time. Pierce should take a page from his book. I would have rather seen them ship out Green with Wally even though Green has more upside than DWest. He will be sorely missed!

Well hopefully the ones who said they were leaving are gone now. Gone till the team they switched to sucks or after the C’s win number 17. We dont need the negative vibes people, Dont Come Back ! ;)

Ejplaya, you’re a sensible guy. (And Brick has his moments, too.)

But on the subject of second round point guards, it was claimed that Sun Yu, Jared Jordan and Taurean Green “will all stink.” Man, I’d like to bet that at least one of those guys is going to be significantly contributing to some NBA team in the years ahead (which I don’t expect for Pruitt). And I figure it was Ainge’s job to figure which of those three was the best, and to draft him.

Brevin Knight was waived by the Charlotte Bobcats. Unless he is damaged goods, Ainge should be trying like hell to sign him to a 1-2 year deal.

I don’t know about sensible, but I realize that I’m not right about these things a lot… I don’t recall ever thinking your posts having been overly negative in the past like some of these guys.

You might be right about Pruitt, once again I really never saw him at all until the clips when they picked him, but NBAdraft.net has him rated above all three of those guys. I don’t recall hearing of anyone except Taureean Greens name though either. I do know that Danny has a knack for finding talent in the 2nd round so I am trusting him. His BIO sounds a lot like Delonte’s skillset though. Hopefully he has half the heart!

From what I know of Pruitt he shares many of the same basketball abilities as Delonte, but with more quickness/athleticism and a greater ability to create his own shot. However, he isnt nearly as smart a player. I have no idea what type of person he is on or off the court.

Judging by their stats in college, especially shooting percentage, Delonte is head and shoulders above Pruitt.

havlicekstoletheball said:
If you dont like it..DON’T READ.

==

Explain to me how the trade is bad.

I wasnt talking about that , im referring to peoples opinions of how it shouldve went down.. if you dont like what theyre saying take your own advice!

Following on :

What this trades means is that the man in the middle now basically has to be a rebounding/shotblocking powerhouse to make up for the rest ..Perkins isnt going to cut it ! he is a career backup.

Blah to losing Delonte as well ..blah i say. Now quickdraw mcgraw is his backup . Kill me now.

Brick : i know you dont give a sh*t what other people say but its obvious you have some intellectual capabilities . where you lose people and me at times is where the constant repitition and negativity comes into it.People do pay attention to what you say so perhaps you can do us all a favour this offseason and lead some to topics that we havent seen ad nauseum from you. You have the ability to do so.Use whatever power you have for good.
No need to remind us where the Raptors are heading , we know the name Colangelo too.

Yo, CelticsFanSince55, i$n’t it about 1:30 a in Norway? $top caring $o much. WAR (Wyc, Ainge, River$) did a long time ago. Now, it’$ all about the green, not the Green. Go get some $leep, my friend…

Mr. Aqua, too much rain in these parts. Cheers.

ucn33 … agreed.

Here are my 2 cents on the trade:

Cons

1) As a rule of thumb, it’s good to dump a veteran right before he starts to decline, and Ray Allen fits exactly into that area.

2) Delonte is a solid player capable of making spectacular plays due to his athletic ability.

3) Delonte has got to be a better defender than Allen.

Pros

1) Ray Allen can still score as evidenced by his highest ever career average of 26 ppg last year.

2) The window of time is closing in on Pierce. The time to cash in on some of the chips was this year, while you have a #5.

3) The move gives the Celtics immediate credibility with other veterans in the league. It give them a chance to land another good player.

4) Delonte is and always will be a complementary player despite his skills and heart. He is a sixth man. Ray Allen is not just a starter, he’s a perennial all-pro.

5) Wally Szczerbiak is finished as a player.

6) Ray Allen averaged more assists and rebounds than Delonte did last year, not just points.

Another way of breaking it down – separate the trade into two separate components:

1) Delonte and Skyz for Allen
2) The #5 for the #35

If just 1) Delonte and Skyz for Allen, it’s a no-brainer, since you need to take advantage of Pierce’s window (3-5 years left). It’s a serious upgrade in the short term – basically Delonte for Ray Allen. Dumping Skyz is a bonus.

What you lose in 2) is the difference between the #5 and the #35. In a deep, flat draft, the difference between #5 and #35 isn’t as great is the numbers indicate.

Flnal, hopeful projection:

Glen Davis at #35 may actually end up being a better NBA player than anyone the Celts were thinking of drafting at 5. How can I say this? What I’m banking on Hollinger’s rating system on ESPN. Like the baseball statheads, he has devised a system of rating college players for NBA success. He actually had Davis rated as 12th best player overall, with Jeff Green rated at 14th, and Brewer 24th. Yi didn’t make the list due to playing in China, but I read reports that he was easily backed down into the paint by various players in a tryout. He woul’ve been a huge gamble at #5.

Summary: If Ray has 3 good years left the tank, the trade was worth it. If Big Baby can really play, it will be icing on the cake.

"Goodbye me, too.

This move was made on Grousbeck’s orders to mollify Pierce and it stinks. It cost them any cap flexibility they might have had and their third best player. Horrible.

Aside from Portland and Seattle, the big winners in this draft were the San Antonio Spurs, who get the 2nd best 7 footer in this draft with the 29th pick. You begin to understand why the Spurs (who trained the 30 year-old Sam Presti, the GM who fleeced idiot Grousbeck last night) have won multiple championships while the Celtics are still swimming in the toilet— and last night someone flushed it."

Couldn’t agree more. Thankfully my second favorite team is the Spurs. They stole a guy who should have gone in the top ten with the last pick in the first round. Incredible!

Portland’s owner bought a pick from Phoenix for the second straight year, while Boston gives up a first-rounder last year to get a pick from the Suns. What’s wrong with that picture?

I have to believe Wyc’s fingerprints are all over the trade, however. He and Pierce got what they wanted. Let’s see how far it takes them. It sure will be funny to see Wyc’s expression courtside if Telfair winds up being the back-up point this year. I can hear the spin now from Wyc. “We just wanted to change the location of Bassy’s locker. That’s why the nameplate came off.”

I just have a question for all those in favor or opposed to the Allen trade:

What do you anticipate the Celtic record next year? (IMHO 44-38) and out by the second round of the playoffs. The following year, I expect no better regular season or playoff performance. Factor in injuries, etc because that’s all part of the game. No excuses, you are what you are.

Do the say yes this is successful because we have 20 more wins than last season and are now a playoff team.

or

Are the – more accurate because we mortgaged the future for short term gain and will be even further away from being a serious championship contender?

The glass is half full and also half empty.

docextension, how did we mortgage the future? All our youngs, except DWest, are still here, there was no sure thing (future) in the draft for us, we got a quality vet and now can let the youngs left to develop, we can get to the point where we can just start adding players to complete a solid core. I think we will pick up some free agents to fill in remaining needs. The important thing is we have a better chance at winning now and our young guys need to get into the habit of winning. That’s where our future lies. We couldn’t go on just by adding more and more inexperienced players.

This is the kind of stuff that makes Boston be perceived as a bad place to play. I’m not saying that KG is on here reading our comments, but it is easy to see why players believe they won’t get a fair shake if they go play for the Celtics. I mean, just look at all the crap Jefferson got when he was “under performing” – and now he is the golden child after a half season of great play. Then there is Ray Allen, who hasn’t even put on a celtics uniform, and already there is a majority of this blog that is calling him out for being brittle, old, and a detriment to the future of this franchise. Yeah, someone explain to me again why players don’t want to go to Boston…

…All in all, I think it’s a fine trade. You have to assume that there will be a trade involving Theo and GG for a legitimate big man, but that trade won’t happen until after the final word comes back on TA’s rehab. If he’s back playing by training camp, Green and Ratliff will be packing their bags. If TA isn’t back, then you have to give him more time to rehab – and consequently, wait until the trading deadline to send out Green and Ratliff. But that’s just my two cents.

We have not sacrificed to this point. Trade for Garnett or another all-star for our youth and you have indeed sacrificed the future. I don’t think Wyc or Danny want to go that way and hope I’m right. The glass will be way moor than half full because our young guys will be improving dramatically over the next 2 years.
I think that the tweaking Danny referred to would be to fill 2 obvious needs. They need (1) to find a role-playing big who can provide rebounding, defense (and passing would be a bonus) and (2) a veteran true point guard who brings defense, consistency and can help in Rondo’s development. Neither of these guys has to cost that much in terms of traded players or salary. Al, Gerald, Rondo and Ryan should not be traded to fill these needs. I don’t know if a free agent is a possibility for one of those positions. A healthy Theo would fill the bill of the first need, if he can give the Celts 20-25 minutes for 60-65 games.

By the way has anyone thought of Glen Davis as being a young Antoine Walker for the Celts? I hope the Celts can instill in him a conditioning ethic. Al and Kendrick should be good role models there. As long as his shot selection and court demeanor/attitude aren’t like Antoine’s, we may be very pleasantly surprised with what he can contribute.

Truegreen, those “mortgage the future” comments come from NBA analysts, saw them on TV last night, the ESPN website, Yahoo sports, several others. Bounce around and you’ll read these too. You may very well be right and we may piece together a run. Who would a thunk it that the Cavs would make the finals? As analysts continue to say, the East is the JV.

On the other side of the coin, if 44 wins gets you picking at the mid point of the lottery or potentially worse, you aren’t going to get a caliber lottery player. IMHO Brewer will be a Bowen/Artest type defender for 10 yrs and have a solid career. Pierce could probably get you back a young starter plus a lottery pick right now.

All our youth may not pan out, but I can see with a total youth movement going from 24W to 35W this year (another lottery pick) to 42W the following, etc. There was a #7 and a #5 pick and 2 quality players could have been taken by Danny each time.

Gerald Green may make big strides like Al last year or he may have very little improvement. Allen and the knee may come back and have a strong career or he may not be the same player. West, a solid back up on any team is gone and IMHO there are limits to Gomes upside, potentially Perk’s too.

I guess what I’m saying is I am in the later and I would had rather DA trade up and get Aldridge last year when Toronto was wanting to trade down, or use the pick on Gay or Roy. I would have rather Pierce traded for a Deng type player plus picks/junk contract which was do-able last year at this time. I’d rather see Brewer, a guy who can play 3 different spots and play them all fantastically on defense be in a Celtic uniform. Brewer plays with the same type of pride as old Celtic championship teams do.

We have a 3 year window in all probability with Ray Allen and Pierce. If DA goes out and gets Gasol, KG, or some other vet, then I understand the direction and although I don’t agree with it, we’ll see how it plays out.

I would like to emulate franchises like the Bulls, Trailblazers and Raptors are doing. I know vets are important, but having a solid quality youth core is what is needed too and I’m not sure trading the #5 and #7 is acceptable for that goal to be reached.

I still can’t believe people are upset by the trade. The moment the C’s drew the 5th pick everybody knew they had no choice but to trade it. It’s not Danny’s fault that Marion didn’t want to play here (well, maybe it is).

The sky was falling when they didn’t get Oden and Durant and now the sky is falling because they have Ray Allen instead of Jeff Green and Delonte West?

The people that are upset because this is not a championship team have that right, but what could we have done to be a championship team anytime soon? We weren’t getting a Duncan or Lebron with the #5, plain and simple. Sure we could have kept the pick, drafted Yi, traded Paul for more picks down the road and pray that Derrick Rose or OJ Mayo end up here next year but I don’t see how that’s an improvement over anything we’re seen lately.

What I don’t understand is that if they’re trying to “win now” isn’t having Doc around kind of a contradiction?

docextension – You want to emulate the Trailblazers?! How’s that? For years put up with thugs and punk players on your team and drive your once proud fans from the only game in town?! Then get rediculously lucky and wind up with the top pick in the draft with a once a decade player?! Trade away a star lowpost player in Zach Randolph (Even though he was an above mentioned punk) for a has been (really a never was) Steve Francis and Channing Frye? Te only thing they have done in 15 years worth mentioning is getting lucky with the trade of Telfair to us for a pick no one had any clue would turn out to be the ROY. They fell into their current situation by accident. They didn’t strategically make this happen. The Bulls did the same thing that we have done. Tried to develop their youth but giving up on some of them too soon. The Raptors?! What is this fascination with the Raptors! What have they done… If you are going to emulate a team why not emulate the Spurs, or the Suns, or the Mavs, or the Jazz. There is a team that built themselves up from a horrible season like we just had to a contender. Be real!!

Why do people keep saying, “It’s not like he’s 40 years old”?

Guards do not have a lot of time left once they hit their early 30s. Allen is also coming off ankle surgery. I’d give him maybe 2 years at most where he’s still “Ray Allen.” Of course this doesn’t mean the wheels completely come off, it just means he’s not the main guy anymore – look at Michael Finley. If you guys are fine with using 15-16 million of cap space for 3 years on a guy who’s NOT the final piece, then by all means, love this trade.

I thought just a few weeks ago people were saying Lewis wasn’t a max contract guy. Well, is Ray Allen at 31? I’d rather have Lewis right now. At least Lewis we still be in his peak at the end of his deal.

Delonte still can’t go to his right, Perk still can’t set a pick but they both play with heart and that’s what I love about both of them.

No one denies that Ray Allen is an excellent player. A scorer. But defense is not his forte and it isn’t Piere’s either.

This team as presently consituted can’t defend a chair. It will never win consistently, particularly on the road. In fact, with the exception of Memphis I can’t think of a single Western Conference team it could beat, aside from the occasional lucky win when the other team has a bad night.

So who is going to guard Kobe, Wade, LeBron, Redd… the list goes on. The answer is no one. Even if Tony Allen is 100%, he plays the same position as Allen and Pierce. So are you going to have Tony Allen on the floor for defense at the end of close games and sit Pierce or Allen? If they do, then what’s the point of paying two 15 million-dollar players to do what they do best? No, what they will do is move Pierce to power forward and go small with a Jefferson-Pierce-T. Allen-R. Allen-Rondo. They won’t be going small because they don’t have enough big men. They will go small because without Tony Allen on the floor, they don’t have a prayer of getting the defense stops they need to win the game. But with that lineup, the teams with a real power forward will kill them on the glass and they will lose the game anyway. It’s a no-win situation that we saw time and time again with Wally in the role of the second scorer who can’t defnd.

Good teams have balance. They are versatile. There are role players who can defend, rebound, etc. This team does not have that. Oh, it has guys like Scalabrine who can eat some minutes. But do you really want him on the floor when the game is on the line?

This team is build like a fantasy team, not like a real basketball team. It makes no sense.

But you say, they are not finished dealing. God, I hope not. If they could get Camby for Ratliff and Gerald Green, that would help. But Denver might get a better offer. Same with Kirilenko, who would definitely help but who makes almost as much money as Pierce and Allen. The irony is, that to build a balanced team, either Pierce or Ray Allen probably has to go. Maybe Ray is just being cycled through Boston to be moved elsewhere. Or maybe they plan to move Pierce, although I doubt that will happen while Grousbeck is alive.

I don’t see a solution. They will score alot but they won’t win very many games. It’s not a lack of talent. It’s duplicative talent cooulped with several glaring defensive holes, starting with a coach who doesn’t have a clue about defense.

Hey coming in to this off season the team had two major concerns: A big man, and a veteran- and if you got them both with one player great. But they couldn’t get it in one player so they got half of their need so far. I still see a possible deal for J. Oneal or KG, and I would rather see Gerald go then Al as the center piece of the trade. Swing-men are a dime a dozen.

Brevin Knight released—-GREAT PICKUP if the Celtics can get him to play PG with Rondo

Brevin Knight has been released. Is this our chance to bring in a veteran point guard?

Should add that by giving up Delonte and the No.5 pick (at which we couldn’t see a standout impact player) we certainly did not mortgage the future—Al, Gerald, Rondo, Perk, Gomes, TA….D-West was awesome to have and a fan favorite, but not the future of the team, and if he was then we were in trouble.

To fully appreciate this trade, you have to look at what it did the Celts salary structure. In Wally, the Celts had $12M in 07-08 and $13M in 08-09 tied up in a player who’s career is completely done, and could in no way be a major piece on a good team.

The NBA salary cap is about $56M and the luxury tax kicks in at $62M. Wally plus Pierce adds up to $28M in 07-08 and $30M in 08-09. Add another $4.5M for perk, $3M for Scal, $2.5M for Al, and about $10-12M for the other 7 players we need to get to 12, and you’ve got $47M in 07-08, which is $9M below the cap. That space below the cap is taken up by Theo’s $11.6 contract.

Since Wally COULD NOT be a significant piece, that means unless you could get someone to take him away (and who would?) you could not possible build around Pierce for the next two years—in other words the window would be CLOSED for the next two years with Wally. Because you can’t fix a team of Pierce & Al (plus Wally’s dead weight) with anyone you could get for $12.6M. And everyone they were trying to get knew that (Garnett, Marion). The piece de resistance was that Garnett hates Wally’s guts. That means that you NEVER win with Pierce. So all you really left with is Al (who might not resign after 09—I wouldn’t).

What Ainge accomplished with this trade is that he got rid of a contract which essentially prevented the team from competing for the remainder of Pierce’s career, and got a player who could add value (not a perfect contract, but at least a potential piece of a good team) for an additional $4M per year (and at the same time reduced salary by $2M for Delonte.) The price for converting Wally’s dead-weight contract into an all star (an aging all star, but still a massive upgrade from Wally) was the #5 pick. That wasn’t going to be free, and if it didn’t happen, we would NEVER win with Pierce (did I mention that already?).

What the Celts are now left with is 2 highly paid, but at least productive players, who will be significant pieces to a good team. In addition, the Celts have about $10M or so room under the cap, and almost $20M under the luxury tax once they trade away Theo’s expiring contract—which brings us to…

Kevin Garnett’s salary is $22M next year. Under the trade rules, his salary can only be 125% of what the Celts give up to get him, so the Celts need to deal $17.6M in salary to trade for Garnett. Theo’s $11.7M, plus Al’s $2.5M :(, plus another $3.4 (Mr. McHale, have you met Scal?) gets you to $17.6M. Throw in next year’s draft picks (I believe we have Minnesota’s first rounder next yearâ€"McHale will want that back if they trade Garnett and go into rebuilding mode) and that would be a half-decent offer for Garnett. Substitute Perk for Scal, and the deal is even sweeter for Minny. Give them G-Money or our first-rounder, and say hello to Garnett.

That would leave us with 3 All Stars (including one Superstar big man) in our starting lineup. Without question that would be the best Celts lineup since Bird retired. Use the midlevel exception to sign a free agent or two, use Green as trade bait, and we have ourselves a very competitive team for the next few years. With Wally gone, Garnett might even sign up for an extension.

This was the fifth pick, not the first pick. Wally isn’t half the player Allan is. All of the moaning about Delonte kills me. The quickest way for a Celtics player to be beloved by the Boston fans is to get traded. While Delonte actually played for the Celtics he was a lousy player overvalued by Ainge who would be at best a 7th or 8th player on a good team. Now that he is gone, he is an 18 8 point guard and one of the best young players in the league. I love the Celtics and always will, but their fans I can take or leave.

You lose all credibility when you say that Delonte is a lousy player.

smokes for stojko, Wally was not completely worthless. Just because he had a horrible year last year doesn’t mean he is finished. However, he is overpaid and the Celtics did get an upgrade in Ray Allen. That much is obvious. At only one extra year, it’s easy to see why lots of fans are rationalizing this.

The problem is that we could have really used the 5th pick to get a great young player. Who that is, I can’t be sure, but it’s Danny’s job to figure it out. We traded the pick because we were desperate for a veteran and ownership didn’t want to make any deal that would put us over the luxury tax when Jefferson is re-signed. That’s why we made a deal with a team that would take Wally instead of Ratliff.

What would have been the best long-term plan is to draft the best player at 5 and trade Pierce. OK, they don’t want to do that, so the second-best alternative is to go into the season with a 5th pick player that could help now and try to make the playoffs. Didn’t management say this team was a playoff team with no changes? At the trade deadline you can then get more for Wally.

The thing is, the “win now” trades where you deal for someone in their 30s never work out unless you win the title. Ray Allen is not Shaq and the Celtics are not the Heat. These kinds of deals are just temporary band-aids that make bad teams into mediocre good teams, just like Pierce is a mediocre-good “superstar.” I like the guy, but the time to win with him was 4 years ago. Ainge/ownership messed that up by doing a half-ass rebuilding job and now making unsound moves to make up for it.

Stoijko, I’m confused. Seems to me we’re headed for the luxury tax already, even without Garnett. Am I adding something up wrong? Because after the Allen trade I get a total salary of $63.6 million. If we add Garnett — sending away $17.6 million and taking back $22 million or whatever – we’re way over the tax, aren’t we? Even without Garnett, how are we getting under the tax?

My bad. The luxury tax this past year was $65.42 million. It should go up 3-4 million at least this year. That means theoretically we could even fit Garnett under the tax, I think, depending on what the level turns out to be this year.

But overall your point is well taken. We’re on the verge of replacing two albatross contracts with useful players. That’s good, I agree. The bigger question for me is what happens if we don’t trade Al and instead try to convert Ratliff’s deal into another veteran. Are we going to be able to resign Al and stay under the luxury tax?

docextension, I’ve heard and read some of the “mortgage the future” comments. The immediate reaction of one of the ESPN commentators made was something like DA just got suckered by Seattle. This was an immediate comment without thought and probably made by a Celtic hater. In my opinion it was Seattle that made a big mistake (roster-wise). They are now putting all the pressure on Kevin Durant to win and are surrounding him with young, inexperienced players, especially if Rashard Lewis leaves. Sort of sounds like the C’s, except that their best player is a guy one year out of high school. Hopefully Durant is a strong person.

Horible trade. Danny always seems to trade for an INJURED, over payed, washed up player. First Raef, then Wally, now Allen! on top of that he gave up a solid guard in Delonte who could help us off the bench, and the #5 pick here people! this is the NUMBER 5 Pick in a very DEEP DRAFT!!! Danny has once again lied to us. He made this trade to APEASE paul and doc and didn’t do what is best for the franchise! The fact that ownership allowed ainge to make this deal is not a good sign for celtic nation. This franchise will continue to suffer for years to come.

Stojko – Well thought out piece. I wish some others around here would make points like that rather than “You have to have a balanced team to win… No one plays defense.. Doc sucks… Scal is fat…”

I do think it is a terrible mistake to trade away Big AL in this scenario. I think he is going to put up numbers similar to KG’s this year. There is no way Garnett averages 18 shots a game with Pierce and Allen on the floor. Look for AL’s rebounds to be right there with Garnett’s, and for him to get 16-18 pts a game. He is a much better back to the basket player than Garnett is as he gets his points leaning into the move vs. fading away shooting high jumpers. He also improved on D last year and should make similar strides this year. He did by the way block 1.5 per game compared to Garnett’s 1.7. With Perk back there healthy they are just fine. The 2-3 wing player like a Wade or Kobe is definitely what we need to step up defensively. If TA is back 100% then we are fine. If not then there is where we should target.

AdrianoMG6 – I’d sure like a whole team full of 26 pts, 4 board and 4 assist (last years averages) “washed up” players…

Brick – Your 18 and 8 comment about Delonte is absolutely rediculous! Surprise, surprise… I love Delonte, but you’re crazy on that one.

You wait and see what Delonte does in Seattle. 18-8 is probably a ceiling, and he’d have to play pg.

But 15-7 s perfectly reasonable. I’m confident he’ll do that if he gets the minutes, which he will, because he’s better than Ridnour or Watson.

He was given full opportunity to win the starting point (and keep it) all along here and came no where near averaging these kind of numbers. He is a 10-5 at best player at the point, and 12-4 at best at the 2. He has been my favorite C since he came on board for his hustle and heart, but those things don’t translate into 18-8.

Delonte can’t stay healthy, have you forgotten that? Every month it’s a wrist, an ankle, bronchitis, a muscle pull, whatever, and he’s out for 10 days. He’s a fragile player.

He’ll stay healthy in Seattle. In a year we’ll all be saying, my god, what was Ainge thinking?

On second thought, Denver may not want Perk. I’d offer Gomes to them if they balked.

Any bets as to when the Camby deal is announced?