Tale of The Tape - Griz

I’d say we are much better off than the Grizz

I was just thinking of this and read the article. While I don’t mind what we have, I think the Grizz really improved themselves in the last couple of weeks. It begins with getting a new coach, not that he’s proven himself yet, but that I’d rather have anyone else than who we have now. And the last move was smart as well. I understand other people’s opinion of Darko, but that deal was a no brainer for the Grizz. And even though we don’t know how serious the Celtics were about going after Darko, I get the sense we weren’t that serious at all. They got Darko for a relatively low deal (by today’s NBA standards), and the possible reward is so high. Seeing that Darko really fills a need on the Celtics, and the fact that he’s only 22, with a load of talent, I wish we made a serious push for him.

 Darko for 8 million might make them stink less in my estimation. That said, until we win in the regular season, we both stink.

while i feel the darko signing is very low risk (three years is nothin), they now have two big guys who do not like to get dirty in the paint, and a 3 (gay) who disappears for games a t a time. i like wht they’ve done, but they’re still at the bottom of the western conference.

It’s about your top players and what conference your in…advantage Boston..longterm ?? AL or Darko? Rondo or Conley??…time will tell

Don’t forget Mike Miller, a great shooter/passer. Question his defense, but he’s a pretty talented uptempo player.

It actually looks to me that the Grizz have at least decided where they are going. Gasol, Darko, Gay, Warrick, Miller are all good running mates for Conley/Lowry. Question the picks of Darko and Conley, but the vision is clear.

Celts,on the other hand, seem to always be keeping their options open, to play every style. Trying to play your opponents game is what ruined the Mavs against Warriors.

what we need to do and what we can do are 2 different things…lol

The Griz have been through a bunch of coaches with no real result. West hasn’t impressed at the GM spot. Ainge drafts well and I think knows what he’ll get out of his coach. If this team comes together as players, I’d expect a more veteran coach replace Doc’s preschool approach to basketball.

The Grizz also drafted Mike Conley, the man Ainge refused to work out. The Grizz will win as many games as the Celtics, even though Memphis is in the Western Conference. Memphis has two great young point guards, two big forwards who can run (Gay, Warrick) and two skilled 7 footers (Gasol, Milicic). That’s enough right there even if you leave Mike Miller out of the equation.

Memphis will be exciting and up tempo. Boston will be a plodding half court team coached by the incompetent disciple of the coach Memphis fired last year.

I like their present better than ours.

8:55 am and Brick’s had his "miserable bastard " pills already…

mcpu40 was right. Let’s revisit this topic in May of 2008. Then you’ll realize that the pills I take are harsh reality pills, not miserable bastard pills.

LOL

Did Danny work out Oden or Durant?? was he praying they would fall?he was praying Conley fell,he takes him,packages Rondo with Theo,NOT WALLY,GG,Gomes,TA ,Perk.future #1 etc whatever then gets Ray Allen,who they wanted to move and even took Wally’s deal not Theo’s to do,and also gets his boy Swift…you and I have no clue what Danny thought of Conley…

The Grizz have a PF who doesn’t want to be there. Darko has not proven anything yet. Neither is an intimidating inside presence. Miller is injury-prone. Celtics have two proven superstars (Pierce and Allen). Celtics are far better off.

The next move Memphis is going to make is a deal for Etan Thomas and Juan Carlos Navarro (Gasol’s close friend) in exchange for Stromile Swift. That will give them a banger underneath to complement a finesse player like Gasol, plus another guy who can shoot lights out from downtown. In fact, Navarro is the European version of Ray Allen at a tiny fraction of Allen’s price.

Gee, maybe Chris Wallace is a pretty good GM who was never listened to here in Boston… just a theory of mine.

Time will tell but with Doc as our coach, we know the end result – more of the same clueless coaching.

no point bashing Doc or the team?? mcpu40,who are you to end Brick’s reason to live each day

I really liked the Brandon Wallace signing. Be thankful for small favors.

Well I live and work within driving distance to the FedEx Forum (home to my favorite Western Conference team), I’m here to tell you that if Darko and Pau are on the floor at the same time, I’m going to see an 81 point game by somebody. Uptempo is good if you have Marion and Stoudamire, not Darko and Pau. I like the direction that the Griz are going, but really wish they would’ve got somebody who could be a defensive presence inside. Right now, they have nothing. They will lose a bunch of 110-105 games this year, and no, they will not have a better record than the Celtics.

the grizzlies are doing the same thing portland is now doing – adhering to a consistent “timeline” that gives them a good chance to be very, very good in 3-4 years.

i’ll take that over the impending playoff disappiontments and rebuilding the celtics seem to be setting themselves up for.

does anyone believe that Danny got Ray A to replace PP’s scoring/perimeter/vet spot so he could trade Pierce?that he has no thoughts of teaming these two longterm

Also, Leon Powe or Glen Davis would start for the Griz. They are role players for us. Rondo, Pierce, Allen, Jefferson, Perkins beat Conley, Miller, Pau, Gay, Warrick 9 out of 10 days.

“I get booed because I suck…."—-Steve Bullpet
I have long supported Doc and I continue to do so, but I may be changing my mind because of this quote from a person I respect.

My electricity was out when I woke up today and I’m not sure if it’s that or something else, but my mind was blown today when I read Peter May’s article. It is inconceivable to me that someone who is so into putting down my favorite team spent a whole article putting down another team.

mcpu40, good for you Bizarro Brick. I’m with you. Don’t know if you live in Boston or not, but if you can you should read Bulpett’s article. I think there’s a link on another thread. This day is so weird that I think something good is going to happen.

and it should,as it is Friday the 13th!!!!!

Just re-read my post on the Bulpett article and it seems to me that I made it seem like Bulpett made the quote. He didn’t. Sorry to all including Steve.

will either the C’s or the Grizz go after Steve Francis?
will he sign a short deal to prove himself and if so would it be worth the risk for the Cs?

Darko’s skills duplicate Pau’s. They still need a banger in the post. MCjr has skills but is a rook. Like the Coach, tho.

“Also, Leon Powe or Glen Davis would start for the Griz.”

Let’s back up the stupid truck for a minute here. Those two wouldn’t get anything more than mop up minutes for the Grizz either. Outside of Jefferson they’ve got three bigs who are far superior to our second best big, and you know that’s bad news when one of those three is Stro Swift….

Boston wins if for no other reason than we let the Griz sign the guy who singed Vin Baker

As I said, they are going after Etan Thomas and Navarro. That will give them even more shooting plus toughness in the post.

“Gee, maybe Chris Wallace is a pretty good GM who was never listened to here in Boston… just a theory of mine.”

Hard to say that when you look at the Vin Baker deal (one of the worst ever), drafting Kedrick Brown over a number of other players who might have really helped the team, etc.

Wallace sucked long before Danny got here.

Roy, see the last paragraph of this “Wizards Insider” column in the Washington Post:

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/wizardsinsider/2007/07/stevenson_gets_new_contract.html

Well there’s no question that Chris Wallace made mistakes. Maybe he learned from them. Has Ainge learned from his mistakes?

Bottom line is this, it is all about championships. Neither team is going to contend, talk about who improved more, it doesn’t matter.

Celtics need to make a package and get Garnett. It’s all or nothing time. We are a mid-pack Eastern team, ousted probably in the 1st round.

Nothing is guaranteed, but Danny has gone down the vet road; get Garnett now, don’t try to wait later and hope they mesh together. Give them the season to gel and come playoff time: KG, Pierce, Allen and troops represent the East in the finals.

Do it Danny, even if it means giving up Big Al.

It’s all about getting a crown. Saying our team is better than yours is the equivalent of a children’t beauty contest, just don’t have a desire to go there.

One giant puzzle piece keeps us from #17 and we need to mortgage the future for KG.

KG is 55 wins and Celts are odds on favorites to make it out of the East. I am not holding my breath any longer for Gerald Green to become a “star” or some veteran point guard comes in gets us close to a banner unless he has the name “Nash” on the back of his jersey. KG or bust.

They have a much tougher road to travel. They play in the western confernce.

I think Danny will do it, even over Garnett’s objections. Big Al is history, I’m afraid.

Pierce, Allen and Garnett will not win anything without a supporting cast. It will be someeithing like the KG-Cassell-Sprewell team that also had Szczerbiak, Hoiberg, Gary Tent and others. They took their shot in 2003-2004, when they made it to the WC finals and lost.

Then they declined to 44, 33 and 32 wins over the next 3 seasons.

The big difference is that three years ago Garnett was in his absolute prime. KG is not the same player now. He’s just more expensive.

Brick, that team going to the western finals with KG, Spree, Cassel, easily would have come out of the East last year which is my point. High time the Celts play for a banner.

I know we will suck 5 years from now, but so be it, give me a 3 year run right now and go for the gold.

Remember Lebron had nothing compared to what KG has with Pierce/Allen. I agree that picking up an affordable veteran point, etc may be necessary to plug in some holes but still due to Danny going the vet route, it’s now or never.

If the past few seasons have taught us anything, the dual vet/youngster side by side contend for a title scheme won’t get it done, period.

Dobbs, I think you have to throw every single dang egg in the basket if you want to compete. I see your point with building around Al, but look at the Raptors, the Bulls, the Magic with (Howard, Lewis, J Nelson). We always say rebuild but we aren’t any closer.

MCpu40, I don’t think we should get the KG thing out of our head. This team has to pull a NY Yankee’s type signing Clemens move. I know that is baseball talk but the same thing, if Yanks have any chance they need to get rolling and the Rocket is part of the answer. This is the perfect storm with KG and the west as weak as it is. Pistons/Heat on the decline, Bulls/Cavs/Raptors/Magic etc going through growing pains. Now or never.

This team making one or two minor changes, means we are heading for medicority again. If Celt fans don’t get behind the KG trade deal and make help make this happen, enjoy another year of mediocre misery in my opinion.

My bad on the last post, should be with the “east” as bad as weak as it is.

You won’t have a 3-year run, you will have a two year run AT MOST. Garnett can opt out of his contract after next year and will be an unrestricted free agent in two years. He will NOT sign an extension in Boston.

Plus, KG isn’t the player he was three years ago, and after conclusion of a KG deal, the Celtics won’t have a supporting cast nearly as good, or as experienced, as the 2003-2004 Timberwolves. They won’t have a coach as good either. Even worse the Celtics will have to take another bad contract, probably Jaric or Hudson.

I predict that the resulting team won’t make it out of the second round, and will require a complete rebuild no later than 2009-2010.

reasons why the griz probably WON’T pursue navarro; at the very least, it sounds like it would take a lot more than stromile swift:

http://www.commercialappeal.com/mca/grizzlies/article/0,1426,MCA_475_5627388,00.html

The Grizzlies appear to be an unlikely place for Spanish sharpshooter Juan Carlos Navarro given the high price tag the Washington Wizards have placed on acquiring his rights.

The word in well-placed NBA circles is that Washington asked for Mike Conley or Kyle Lowry or a future first-round for Navarro’s rights. The Grizzlies declined. But that isn’t the only factor in why the Griz might not pursue Navarro.

Navarro will command a salary starting at $3.5 million annually. The Griz, who used most of their salary-cap room on 7-footer Darko Milicic, seem reluctant to commit that much money on a player they view as combo guard and someone who needs the basketball to succeed.

Taking the ball out of Conley’s or Lowry’s hands is not an option.

CelticRebel said:
  Well I live and work within driving distance to the FedEx Forum (home to my favorite Western Conference team), I’m here to tell you that if Darko and Pau are on the floor at the same time, I’m going to see an 81 point game by somebody. Uptempo is good if you have Marion and Stoudamire, not Darko and Pau. I like the direction that the Griz are going, but really wish they would’ve got somebody who could be a defensive presence inside. Right now, they have nothing. They will lose a bunch of 110-105 games this year, and no, they will not have a better record than the Celtics.

Thanks for that…the grass is always greener.

Last year they had Lowry, who is said to be a very similar player to Conley, they had an experienced pg in Stoudamire, Atkins, etc. Gasol was there after his delayed start, along with Gay, MIller, Swift, etc. They never won more than 5 games in any month. Now, with Conley, great potential but still an inexperienced 19 in the NBA, and Darko, an up til now soft underachiever, and they are touted to be so improved and on their way.

I like our team. Ray Allen is proven. AJ is a beast on the box, and PP is PP. They have a support group with talent and a doggedness (see Powe, Davis, Gomes, TA, Perk) that I believe will do a better job than expected.

Am I as impatient as the rest for more movement towards 17, YOU BET! Do we need another experienced PG and a solid defensive, rebounding center? Without a doubt. But if we can’t make that happen, although I beelieve we are trying, I still believe we are going to outperform those guys.

PS: no to KG if it means AJ.

If I saw even one extra banner (#17) hanging from the rafters within the next decade, I would be one old appreciative fan. I realize KG makes us instant contenders now and we pay the devil in the future, but I do it!

We’ll just agree to disagree on this but I think KG in the East has a lot more “run” in him than he has going against the stronger West teams. Secondly, he has never had a sidekick like Pierce or Allen to work with and now he has both. Thirdly, KG may opt out, but IMO he has never in his career had the opportunity to be an instant favorite to make the NBA finals before and 55W can sure change his attitude. I still make this happen.

Lastly, it makes sense now. KG is worth less has time roles on. If Minny wants to rebuild it is better for them to do it with Big Al, Green, Foye, etc now than to waste half a season.

I think the Celtics had a much stronger base to build on going into the draft, but I think Memphis has made better decisions since.

Well, one reason Memphis has made “better decisions” is that they had cap space. The Celtics didn’t. The reasons the Celtics didn’t have any cap space go way, way back— to the first Walker trade.

For example, the C’s had no shot at Darko. None whatsoever.

The Grizz also had a better lottery pick, although Ainge would probably have traded away #4 to get Ray Allen just as he did with #5.

Lastly I would point out that the C’s would have a much stronger base if they had kept pick #7 last year and used in on Rudy Gay, instead of trading it away to save the owners some money— a trade that was necessitated by a whole string of events that once again goes back to the first Walker trade.

I think it is completely silly to compare Memphis and Boston because we are both on different tracks as far as when we will compete. Memphis is gearing up for 3-4 years from now. People are also doing quite a bit of hob nobbing on the Darko signing when he could easily be a bust for them. I really, really like their young players though. Lowry, Conly, Gay, Warrick are all nice players. Pau and Miller are soft but effective. They have a clearly articulated vision. They also had a much better starting point than the C’s had when Danny came aboard.

The C’s are trying to win now. Ray-Paul is better than anything Memphis has for the next 2-3 seasons. Jefferson is the best prospect on either team as well. Rondo is in the same class as Conley/Lowry, though we can argue where they all fall. Gay is the second best prospect on either team IMO… he’s really good but it’s questionable if he will ever be a better player than Pierce or Ray Allen. Danny clearly isn’t done this offseason and he really has the chance to cement the C’s as a contender if he plays his cards (Theo, Minnesota’s first rounder, Gerald, Telfair, etc.)right. I would say that Danny definitely could have built around a young core instead of building around Paul… but alas that window has closed. If the C’s decided to go that route then this comparison would have been a lot more interesting.

docextension said:
  If I saw even one extra banner (#17) hanging from the rafters within the next decade, I would be one old appreciative fan. I realize KG makes us instant contenders now and we pay the devil in the future, but I do it!

We’ll just agree to disagree on this but I think KG in the East has a lot more “run” in him than he has going against the stronger West teams. Secondly, he has never had a sidekick like Pierce or Allen to work with and now he has both. Thirdly, KG may opt out, but IMO he has never in his career had the opportunity to be an instant favorite to make the NBA finals before and 55W can sure change his attitude. I still make this happen.

Lastly, it makes sense now. KG is worth less has time roles on. If Minny wants to rebuild it is better for them to do it with Big Al, Green, Foye, etc now than to waste half a season.

So, we’ll agree to disagree, but then you go on to explain why you’re right?

Why would I agree to that?

As I recal Minn had a playoff team with some very good players: Kendall Gill, Joe Smith, Marc Jackson, Rod Strickland and Wally as another Allstar to go with KG in his prime. What is the rest of the cost for KG? What exposure to his contract opt out? How much do we improve VS lose. Others have to play besides PP, AJ, KG.

I’m not discounting your proposal, but I’d like to hear, as Paul Harvey says, “the rest of the story.”

alchemist said:
  “They also had a much better starting point than the C’s had when Danny came aboard.”

Excuse me? Memphis hasn’t won a single playoff game during the entire existence of the franchise. Not a single measly one.

Ainge inherited a team that won 44 games and made it to the second round in 2003. The 2003 Grizzlies won 28. Of couurse the Grizz jumped to 50 wins in 2003-04 (maybe Hubie Brown had something to do with that), while the Celtics went from 44 wins to 36.

Sure the Celtics are trying to win now. That’s what they tried to do in 2004-2005. And they will fail again, KG or no KG. No defense, no coach, no bench.

As I said, KG means one or two years of respectability. And after that, a complete rebuild.

Sorry to say it again, but every year they don’t trade Pierce is another year of futility. The Sixers finally bit the bullet with Iverson, and the Celtics will with Pierce, as soon as the fanbase deserts them, as it did in Philadelphia.

The Sixers tried to bring in Chris Webber, but it didn’t work. KG is just an improved— but even more expensive— version of Webber at this stage of his career.

And a single significant injury to any one of the “big 3,” all of whom are over 30, and the whole thing comes crashing down.

Brick,
Total agreement with your responses to my post. But I also think Memphis being in better financial position isn’t a good excuse for Boston’s offseason mis-steps (I’m not saying you were making excuses for Ainge; just that it’s one MORE thing Ainge has done wrong).

As for people who are touting the “BOSTON IS LOOKING TO WIN NOW” line, I think Simmons gave a great rebuttal to that yesterday:

Bill Simmons: They’re not getting Camby. They have no real trade chips other than future picks and Theo Ratliff’s contract, and that contract isn’t going to have value until February when teams only have to pay a portion of it. They’re trying to sell the “we’re not done” card and I just don’t believe them. If I’m wrong, so be it. But if the Celtics were honestly trying to make a run with Allen-Pierce-Jefferson in 2008, why haven’t they been courting any free agents, and what big contracts guys are out there that they can actually get? I love Rondo’s potential, but he made about 35 turnovers in the Spurs summer league game – it’s going to take him another 2 years to become a consistently good NBA point guard. I just don’t get it. It’s like two rosters in one roster – three players who can be part of a contender, surrounded by a bunch of young guys who aren’t remotely ready to have an impact in the playoffs, and a coach with a .467 winning percentage. it makes me crazy. I can’t talk about them.

Even if the other shoe does drop (they trade Jefferson for a one or two year rental of KG) they won’t be good enough to contend.

These people are crazy. The get completely lucky and draft one of the 2-3 best young low post scorers the league with the 15th pick. He’s 22 years old. And now they want to TRADE

TRADE him? It would be like the Red Sox trading Jonathan Papelbon for Randy Johnson or Mike Mussina.

People that dumb don’t deserve to live. It weakens the gene pool.

Wallace will their Franchise as well.

Hey Brick,leave my Yankees outta this…lol…

Fan from VT…Dallas is my guess for PP…but 90% says he stays

I know Brick is all knowing when it comes to what the C’s should do, but now he is the one who decides who lives or dies? You sure have quite the ego for someone who sits at his computer alone writing messages on a sports blog all day long… Better hope none of the C’s brass get knocked off or they will be coming for you Brick!

mcpu40,
Brick’s analogy may not be perfect, but this line is: “The(y) get completely lucky and draft one of the 2-3 best young low post scorers the league with the 15th pick. He’s 22 years old. And now they want to TRADE.”

Even with KG, this team would be 3 great players and a bunch of nothing (I like Rondo’s potential as much as the next guy, but he has a LONG way to go). Taking a change that a wickedly unbalanced team could win it all is not worth giving up a guy who looks to be developing into one of the most skilled low-post players with a good 10-12 years ahead of him. It’s just not.

Well, I should say the I believe it is not (and in this case, I think I’m right). If they trade Jefferson, Cs fans are going to be watching him with broken hearts and “what ifs” for a long time to come.

EJPLAYA said:

"I know Brick is all knowing when it comes to what the C’s should do, but now he is the one who decides who lives or dies?’

It’s not me, it’s natural selection. If they trade Jefferson, here is a website that you should bookmark in lieu of celticsblog.com:

http://www.darwinawards.com/

Cousin It said:
  Brick,
Total agreement with your responses to my post. But I also think Memphis being in better financial position isn’t a good excuse for Boston’s offseason mis-steps (I’m not saying you were making excuses for Ainge; just that it’s one MORE thing Ainge has done wrong).

Youe agree with his statement “one reason Memphis has made "better decisions” is that they had cap space. The Celtics didn’t. For example, the C’s had no shot at Darko. None whatsoever. The Grizz also had a better lottery pick…"
 
I think Brick was accurate. So, I’m confused by your statement that in one hand Brick demonstrates Ainge had no choice or control over these curret events by Memphis, and after you agree with him. Then you revert to “better financial position isn’t a good excuse for Boston’s offseason mis-steps.”

This offseason is yet to play out, and you may ultimately be right. However impatience for something to happen on your part doesn’t make Ainge’s current offseason moves, or lack there of “mis-steps.” If his patience results in a defensive center to compliment AJ down low, without giving up the farm, I’ll be very thankful.

mcpu40,
Jeez, I know what you’re talking about. I can’t believe how much “work” time I spend on CB. It’s shameful!

Brick,
You are the lightning rod on CB. You definitely elicit the most, and strongest, reactions to your posts—both positive and negative.

Good job.

Wallace the GM what? HAHAHA! He is a decent judge of amatuer talent, but he sucked royally as a GM. He’s the reason why we’ve had 6 added years of rebuilding. Phoenix told the C’s to pick the filler Johnson/Brown, and Einstien Wallace chose poorly.

Anyhow, the Timberwolves beat the Lakers in that series if Cassell doesn’t hurt his back.

Garnett/Spree/Cassell was good, but not as good as a Pierce/Garnett/Allen team in a very weak Eastern Conference.

That being said, I’m not trading AL unless I get the moon in return.

blceltsfan,
Yeah, my response was confusing. I’m also at work, and my mind is half in this, half in work (I bet my clinets would love to hear that). I guess my point was that I agree the Celtics had more constraints than Memphis, but I still lay that on Ainge’s shoulders. In other words, Ainge should have a right to use the mess he created as an excuse.

Does that make more sense?

OOPS—Ainge shoud NOT have a right to use that as an excuse.

OOPS—I meant "In other words, Ainge should NOT have a right to use the mess he created as an excuse.
"

That wasn’t the point Brick. It’s that you said they don’t DESERVE to live. That’s beyond appropriate commentary. How sad that you are so obsessed that you’d like to see these guys dead. Fired is one thing, come on!!

brick makes a lot of sense agree or disagree. in the meantime, this c team seems to need more juice to be taken seriously. i hope danny’s patience is rewarded with a good deal or signing. so far, every name out there gets connected to us and ends up somewhere else. thank god we didn’t sign rashard lewis to that profane contract. let’s not trade big al. i will give doc a chance, but i am not confident. i am glad we have clifford ray and let’s get another big man for him to work with.

Cousin It said:
  blceltsfan,
Yeah, my response was confusing. I’m also at work, and my mind is half in this, half in work (I bet my clinets would love to hear that). I guess my point was that I agree the Celtics had more constraints than Memphis, but I still lay that on Ainge’s shoulders. In other words, Ainge should have a right to use the mess he created as an excuse.

Does that make more sense?

You bet.

I guess I look at the past as just that. I think overall the C’s are in much better shape today, and while there are always moves to critisize, I remember just how bad the ML Carr, Pitino, and then Wallace (regardless who he was listening too) left this organization before DA took over. We couldn’t have been speculating about bringing KG here,or imagine Ray Allen, never mind lively debate about how excited we are about a youthful, talented bench…

So, it’s more about, with what we’ve learned, what are we going to do today. ANd doing something now would be good so we’d have more to do on this site! My clients would like that too I’ll bet!

You get a Tommy Point for Obsession!

we can win the horrifying altantic division with what we have currently (assuming we stay healthy) …. the knicks are on the rise too (they stole z-bo)

I’m reading some of the latter posts quickly and am getting the impression that some of you think the C’s are having a bad offseason. As I often do, I’m not getting it. I don’t expect the C’s to make multiple changes this summer which will immediately lead to a championship next May or June. Unless I missed it I haven’t seen that Al Jeff has been traded. We made one move which immediately, imo, makes us much better. We haven’t been able to fill some other needs yet. The summer’s not over. And not being able to get Darko is not a tragedy. And a group of you should be happy that Doc said he “sucks” as a coach. What more could we want.

Ainge is a bad GM, while in New York the Knicks have 17 guaranteed contracts filling 15 roster positions. Now that’s good management. If you haven’t seen the you tube thing on Danny, linked in another thread, all you DA detractors should see it. Someone showed it to Danny and he couldn’t stop laughing. It really is well done and very funny. While we are so serious here it’s good that DA and Doc,at least, have good senses of humor.

Kevin Garnett and Chris Webber have nothing in common. KG has 3, 4 years of elite status left in the NBA. Philly was way to late on Webber, he was done after his knee injury. I never would have advocated trading Jefferson if Danny hadn’t moved our last two 1st round draft picks. It’s now or never. In 4 years we can hit bottom, that’s where we are now.

I’ll throw my 2 cents back on KG. Last year KG averaged 22.4/12.8 better stats than he had the year before. The only decline I see is that he shot 47.8% from the floor (which is awesome for a non-center) and he is a career 49% shooter. This talk that he’s washed up, I don’t buy it yet until I see it myself. He’s 31 but I can see a good steady 4 years out of the guy with very little declining skills.

Also, the talk that KG doesn’t want to come here, I don’t care, he’s not going to sit out the year. He’ll grow with whatever team gets him, get accustomed to new surroundings, make new friends with teammates, etc. No team in the East would be a favorite over the KG/Celts regardless of the others we surround the big 3 with.

Next on wanting to know the rest of the story, I’ll try to briefly fill in the blanks. Rondo as a 4th key player and point is workable, especially when he or even I can dump into KG, pass it to Paul on the wing or kick it back to Lewis for the 3. Tony Allen I don’t know about, but we’ll have to see how he comes back off the injury. Gomes is a solid 5th/6th wheel, there is Perk who hopefully stays healthy. I see Powe turning the corner, Baby Davis should contribute more than Scal.

Much much easier to plug a minor hole during the season with the big 3.

I would rather wait 4 MORE MONTHS (ooh the torture) off this offseason before commenting on where we stand..

The only reason our team is worth discussing is because Ainge got lucky with Al Jefferson. I’ll reiterate my disgust with trading the #7 and #5 picks in consecutive drafts… it’s crazy.

The decision to build around Pierce was the wrong one, and it could potentially ruin the career of Al Jefferson. If Danny trades away more youth to make a push over the next couple of years – and it fails – we’ll be forced to rebuild three or four years from now when Jefferson is about 25 or 26 years old. At that time Danny will have no chips of value whatsoever, and it won’t be possible to add enough talent to Jefferson in time to make a difference.

It’s exactly the same situation he faced withe Pierce – the near impossibility of adding enough talent with aging chips. It’s likely Paul’s career will be wasted, and I really hope it doesn’t trickle into wasting the career of Al Jefferson.

Trading those two picks was beyond stupid. That #5 seems to have no value now because there isn’t a face to put on it… in two or three years, we’ll see what it really was worth.

There were a lot of people fine with moving the #7 last year when I was condemning it – I was wishing we had taken Rudy Gay – and now people are starting to see the value of what we lost. Rudy is going to be a great player, and he should have been here with us alongside Gerald Green.

The Grizz are trying to keep Gasol, but their other players are so young, they may actually be better off moving Gasol for a young big who can grow up with Darko, Gay and Conley.

I am no genius although I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last month. Even I know that this team had to go in one direction or the other. I would have chosen the youth movement, moved Pierce and built with young talent from his trade and the draft. That is not the option Danny took.

Danny painted us into this corner with his moves over the past two drafts.

I’m prepared to pay the price, whatever it is to get KG now, not wait until the trade line. I’ll risk his going downhill, I’ll risk his opting out of the contract after this year, I’ll risk rebuilding for the next decade when it is all said and done and he gives us 1,2, 3 years or whatever years as banner contenders. There are 30 teams trying to be the champion, it is going to take bold action to get us there.

No doubt in my mind, we should, we could, and we would be in the NBA Championship Finals with KG as part of the big 3 this coming year; and that’s what I want.

The NBA has too many teams and too tough to be able to do some of the things Red was able to do when the NBA was back the way it was in the old times. I don’t think Danny has the ability to get us that good trade to make us formible any other way. It has to be an all or nothing deal.

I’ll suffer the hangover effects for how many years I need to, but for now get KG and party on.

Concur.

We’re starting to sound like the “red staters” and “blue staters” who argue themselves blue in the face each night on CNN and MSNBC.

Celtics Nation is clearly divided.

On one side are those who believe trying to blend a couple of big money/big name vets with a bunch of kids is going to fall short of glory and, therefore, not worth the long-term price (sacrificing picks, limiting financial flexibility to create a more balanced roster, trading Al for KG, etc.)

On the other side are those who believe a team of Pierce, Allen and KG with those kids can win it all.

We will never agree. Never.

Albin said:
  
“The Grizz are trying to keep Gasol, but their other players are so young, they may actually be better off moving Gasol for a young big who can grow up with Darko, Gay and Conley.”

The Grizz aren’t in a hurry because Gasol is nearly 4 years younger than Pierce, and he’s a 7 footer, not a 6-6 player. Even then the Grizz might be better off following your advice, because IMHO Gasol may be too soft defensively and on the boards to lead them into contention.
 

docextension – if KG doesn’t want to come here, Minny won’t trade him. He’s been massively loyal to the team, and they feel the same way towards him. They might not trade him to his preferred destination(Phoenix), but they will not trade him some place he doesn’t want to go

As for Gasol – he is really young still, and getting better. The Grizzlies might trade him, but only for 99 cents on the dollar. And we don’t have that – unless we wanted to trade Jefferson, which is crazy.

Brickowski “Excuse me? Memphis hasn’t won a single playoff game during the entire existence of the franchise. Not a single measly one.”

They also play in a much, much tougher Western Conference. If they played in the East, they would have faced much easier opponents in the playoffs, and definitely would have won some games.

Cullin, good points you make but my response to it is this. KG is a professional, he is getting paid $$$ millions. If he is traded here and doesn’t like it, too bad, his feelings are hurt, but he makes us instant title contenders.

KG has never played in the NBA finals and had the light shown on him like Duncan, Wade, Shaq, Lebron, etc. If and when he goes through that as a Celt, I think he would see this trade as a true blessing and regret it if it was he and not his agent that said he didn’t want to go here. Also, to my knowledge he said this before we acquired Allen. Again, I don’t care about his feelings.

On the flip side, Minny is no longer saying like they have for years that trading KG is not an option. They have been and they are looking at offers from us, Golden State, Dallas, Lakers, etc. KG is on the table and it is McHale’s job to get the best deal possible. His fiduciary responsibility is to the Minnesota Timberwolves franchise, not KG despite any personal feelings.

If McHale and Wolves wait too long they are going to find themselves in the same boat as 76ers with Iverson and not get full value as they could now.

With Big Al in the trade mix, I think we offer the Wolves the best package and it’s foolishness on both the Celts and Minny if they wait until the season starts or the trade deadline to try to pull this off or get a better deal.

Last year was my worst year ever as a Celtic fan, this year with KG would be one of the better ones.

Albin said:
 “The decision to build around Pierce was the wrong one, and it could potentially ruin the career of Al Jefferson. If Danny trades away more youth to make a push over the next couple of years – and it fails – we’ll be forced to rebuild three or four years from now when Jefferson is about 25 or 26 years old.”

Starting over at that time would be perfect. If Al is 25, then by the time the team can draft, sign, and trade for other pieces he’ll be 30. That’s prime championship age right there. His career will not have been “wasted.” So, give me the next three years of playoff basketball. I’m going to enjoy it, even though I know it will be followed by starting over. That’s the way the NBA is. It’s better than sucking for another 5 years in a row waiting for someone to “develop.”

If they trade Jefferson for Garnett, they won’t be rebuilding around Jefferson. They’ll be rebuilding around Rajon Rondo and Brandon Wallace.

It is not like I am trying to run Big Al out of town. The only player on the market or even being close to on the market I do the deal for is KG.

All things being equal, Celts are playing in the NBA Finals next season if the trade goes down.

Like I say, I’ll deal with the devil and ping pong balls during the next decade but I want my cake and I want to eat it now! Even if I have to rebuild around Scal, I don’t care, get me a crown.

I am nt sure where we (Memphis) are going. Like someone said above, 2 7 footers are not the blueprint to running. Plus Iavaroni and Wallace keep talking about making Rudy Gay a “Phoenix 4”. I am no rocket scientist but if Darko is a 5 and Rudy is a 4 than someone is going to be squeezed. I think they keep Pau this year to ease Darko into Memphis and if we are way out of the playoff race in Feb. they consider deals for Gasol.

docextension said:
  “All things being equal, Celts are playing in the NBA Finals next season if the trade goes down.”

I have a different take on this statement and KG’s reasons for being reluctant to come to Boston. I think the 2 are related in this way:

KG played a few years ago on a Wolves team build around him, Spree and Cassell, with a bunch of refuse filling out spots 4-12. They fell short and, according to punlished reports, KG was not happy with the way that year went.

I think KG sees the prospect of coming to the Celtics this year in the same way. Pierce and Allen are Spree and Cassell and, despite what Celtics fans think, he sees a bunch of refuse at 4-12.

He’s been down that road before.

Having 3 stars on and a bunch of “other guys” does not guarantee a trip to the finals. Ask Hakeen, Pippen and Barkley, who failed to do it in Houston.
 

Keep in mind that I am not saying having those 3 on the same team couldn’t produce a championship. I am saying it’s far from a sure thing, and KG, in particular, may be very skeptical of it based on his experience.

I’m skeptical, too.

I think Memphis will do fine with Gasol. He’s not slow for a big man, just soft. He can play up tempo.

What the Grizz do need is another bruiser up front, do do what Kurt Thomas does for the Suns, or Oberto for the Spurs. Stromile Swift is not that player.