Into the Offseason

Great insight!

There was a post the other day regarding the C’s intent to sit on their hands and evaluate. While this could happen, or numerous combinations of options to get the end result may evolve, you hit the nail right on the head, “the team isn’t entirely in control of its own destiny in terms of the possible trade outcomes available to them.”

The team’s inability to be in some of this early activity is dissappointing for those of us that are eager for the excitement and hope, but was never much of a reality considering our chips and MLE VS the players real value to this team.

Past the enjoyable fodder for the blog, your insight on the patient process for real growth and gooming of this team is actively being exercised.

What more can a C’s fan ask for…fertilizer for our blogging!

Great read and some valid points. However, in my opinion, all is mute until defensive becomes the #1 priority and calling card for this team. Sadly, I don’t see that happening with Doc at the helm. I know it’s not reality but it’s fun to fantasize about where Scott Skiles could take this team.

good analysis. no mystery that this team needs a center and an experienced guard. the sooner the better. i wonder what is taking so long? they also need a fixed rotation and not all that combo of the day crap doc pulled last year.

I think that the most significant difference in team philosophy going into the season is summed up in Doc’s “I’m going to get a chance to coach” quote. Developing young players by force feeding them minutes will be a thing of the past. Guys won’t get off the bench if they can’t win games for Doc. And bench players win games by making plays and generally not screwing up. Gomes, Scal and Theo can provide that type of play in the forecourt, but the Celtics are sorely lacking in the backcourt for those type of players.

Eric, this is an excellent, concise, realistic and understandable summary of the “state of the TEAM”. My only problem is you make it sound like getting the team to where it needs to be is very complicated and time consuming. It’s checks and balances, should I give up this player for that etc. I’m being ironic when I say you make it sound complicated. It is. It’s not complicated when you’re the Knicks, buy every player available and have 17 guaranteed contracts for 15 roster spots. As you also say, forget the financial angle. Players want to play. An 8 – 10 player rotation is ideal. What happens to the guys out of the rotation. It’s people management. When we criticize, DA, Doc, Wyc we should be as understanding as you are. I wish people would understand that this isn’t easy.

After everything is said and done for, This team still has NO identity.
What are we supposed to be? what defines us?
Noone can truthfully answer this question and thats why we wont reach the upper echelon under Doc.

Gomes may rate as the most reliable contributor on the Celtics bench based on his health and production the past two seasons. Delonte West was another reliable producer when on the court, but beyond those two there are a number of question marks.

Ummm…isn’t Delonte on a different team now? ;)

Celtic’s Identity: plays hard, rarely out of a game at the end. Will get better with time just like fine wine. Master Po, Young (yellow book) Caine should have something to say about this. Make it good, need a laugh.

I worry that Doc, anxious to build his case for being kept on, will from the get go over use Pierce and Allen for too many minutes. This will especially happen since Tony Allen is unlikely to be ready at the start of the season. (Yeah I know, Gerald Green is supposed to be the answer as a back-up, but I’m not going back into all that.)

I’m also concerned about how the wings will be used. RAllen and Pierce could easily be played for 40 minutes a game through the ASB, only to see them start to where down / break down towards the end of the season and have an empty gas tank in the playoffs. Jefferson’s offensive threat and (hopefully) Tony Allen’s defensive presence should mean that we can afford to play them less than we have played our best players in other playoff years.

I’d certainly like to see a backup PG who is more talented, reliable, and complimentary to Rondo than Sebastian, but at the end of the day we only go as far as Rondo can take us, and 10 minutes per game on the bench should be enough to keep him fresh.

Let’s be blunt. This team is going nowhere as presently constituted and coached. No defense.

There will be no MLE signing nor a trade of Theo’s contract for both of those will place this team squarely in the throngs of luxury tax hell. What makes anyone whose watched this ownership group for the last some odd years think they’re going to magically change thier entire management theory overnight?

Thanks for the recap, which is a good reminder of how mediocre Ainge’s team is as he goes into year 5 of his tenure.

DA needs to make another big move, like Theo’s contracts and spare parts for Lamar Odom as part of the KG trade, or this team isn’t going to win more than 46 games. Then again, because of Ainge’s horrible stewardship, 46 wins might merit a parade compared to the past few seasons.

It’s really hard to tell where the true holes are defensively until it becomes a priority. The holes defensively are almost by design with the idiotic current defensive philosophy. I don’t know that trades will help the defense. It’s the scheme and philosophy more so than the players.

If Rivers “takes over the defense”, he would have to shave about 6 opponent’s ppg. That would give him the necessary cushion in close games for the inevitable outcoaching and blunders that defines Rivers as a game coach.

The problem with this team is not the talent level. The problem is the composition of the roster. There is no balance. They have good offensive players but except for Rondo and Tony Allen (if healthy) there are no defensive players. Also, except for Jefferson their offensive is completely perimeter oriented (and if they trade Jefferson for KG it will become even more perimeter oriented). They don’t run, they don’t press, and they have no consistent offensive philosophy except to run ISOs for their stars. This approach is utterly predictable and easy to defend.

They are going nowhere, particularly when you consider that every other team in their divison has upgraded in the offseason. As usual, they have some promising young players, but those guys will be riding the pine while Rivers plays his aging stars until they drop from exhaustion.

This point was brought up in another thread (forum or comment, I can’t remember) but it was a great point I’d love to bring up to Eric…why have no reporters sought out Theo to find out what his true physical condition is? Ask his friends, his family, his trainer, his doctor, etc? It seems odd that we are in mid summer and know nothing except Ainge-speak of his conditions. You know, the ole company line of “If Theo comes back, he could be a big time producer and just what we need. Remember. he is in a contract year” etc, etc. I mean come on! Noone can find out some truth to his health?

Eric, I’ll reiterate the point that Roy Hobbes makes above, which is an issue that I’ve raised with you in the past: are you objective, or do you have a vested interest in fawning to the team’s current management? Are you currently on the team’s payroll or are you seeking a consulting engagement with the team? Do you write an an objective journalist or in some other capacity?

Tony Allen is not an x-factor next season. The season after, if all goes well, he might be an x-factor. But next year – Tony is a player who’s game is slmost entirely reliant on his athleticism. He’s not going to have that back next season(if he ever does).

Does anyone remember last season? Tony didn’t have his physical skills back, and he was terrible. Doc let him play, and everyone was ripping into Tony, into Doc, etc. Eventually, Tony got his athleticism back, and that’s all everyone remembers, apparently. This is a more severe injury then what he came back from last time, I see no indication that he will be ready next season.

Eric has painted too glossy a picture for our current roster. One might assume (based on his article) that the Celtic’s are sitting on a “ton” of talent and just waiting for the trade offers to materialize.

What talent? It all starts with production and demonstrated dominance by our youthful “trading chips”. If SL was an indication that these young STARS have arrived, I missed it. We may yet luck-out with Brandon Wallace and Glenn Davis but both players still must turn POTENTIAL into PRODUCTION before we can enjoy any excitement.

Brick was right when he noted that our roster is “unballanced”. Drafting philosophy that places the highest value on talent acquisition rather than NEED can cause roster imballances. One must weigh whether our quest for talent (instead of drafting for need) has been fruitful and whether our youth are truly attracting trade offers. Only then can we measure how successful our “talent upgrade” has become.

In Ainge’s defense he’s had to make selections deep into the draft where quality has been severely diluted. Yet when offered the opportunity to draft at the top end of the lottery he has elected instead to improve the franchise’s financial footing rather than it’s talent base. This represents a conflict of direction and priorities for a struggling franchise and introduces the suspicion that ownership has exerted too heavy a hand in team management.

Ainge’s reputation as a drafting ’guru" has been severely questioned in this deep draft and retrospectively when considering the excellent players that we could have had from prior drafts. Ainge has yet to “hit a home run” in his drafting choices (Jefferson was not the apple of his eye, Robert Swift was) and what he lucked-into was more fate than by design.

He completely missed on Gabe Pruit while better choices were still on the board. He completely missed on Doc as a coaching strategist but may have succeeded in Doc as a people manager. Doc missed the mark in his selection of coaching assistants who could have hidden Doc’s flaws rather than exaccerbated them.

“The other shoe has yet to drop” but based on our recent past, don’t expect the moon.

Brickowski said:
“Also, except for Jefferson their offensive is completely perimeter oriented (and if they trade Jefferson for KG it will become even more perimeter oriented).”

Who was the post-presence for the Bulls championship teams? Here’s a hint…it was MICHAEL JORDAN. What is this rule that says you have to have a center with his back to the basket to win? I’ll agree with Brick on the defense though. That’s where the lack of big men hurts. The offense will be fine.

The problem with thus whole “other shoe” thing is that Jefferson is the one who will be traded away for the other shoe. They don’t care how good Big Al might become. They are too cheap to pay him.

I’d like to challenge another misconception that’s been used too often as an excuse for failure. That to build a championship calibre team one must have a “proper” blend of veterans and youth. Further, that our lack of past success is directly attributable to too much youth and not enough veterans (who supposedly make fewer mistakes).

Instaed I’d offer for your thought that it isn’t the mere presence of “veterans” that determines the degree of team success. Oh no, that oversimplification only tells part of the story.

Success is MORE a product of having the right player TALENT base, the right COACHING expertise and the right management hierarchy to support team vision and team construction.

I offer for your thought that we lack roster ballance, roster talent and the coaching expertise to excell as a franchise. It is not only the players that lack a high BBIQ but a management style that favors “patchwork” fixes rather than tough-decisions regarding reconstruction of a fallen franchise.

Enough with the too cheap to pay him comments guys! They just maxed out PP recently, committed to a huge salary with Ray Allen, etc. They just re-upped Doc when we all know they will likely end up eating that 5 mil. These aren’t the Atlanta Hawks who won’t make good moves, like getting Stoudemire, for purely financial ramification reasons. Throwing money against the wall and hoping something sticks makes you the Knicks. Look how that worked out for them! They are being fiscally responsible right now so that they are ABLE to pay Big Al. Everytime you make a “too cheap” comment it takes away a huge amount of credibility from any other comment you make.

Well said mcpu40 – If you don’t feel that why, why waste your time?! Get a life negative people!

i guess the point of this article is “have faith in the management”? that’s a tough sell right there.

an like cullain, i disagree with this: “The real question mark isn’t IF he’ll recover his game, but WHEN he’ll do so.” this knee injury is much more serious than his previous one. for a guy who relies so much on his atheleticism, we probably shouldn’t expect tony allen to be at full strength EVER, let alone in time for training camp.

O.K., it’s too easy to be critical. It isn’t always whether money has been spent but rather how prudent was the money management. When you pay “cheap” money for a Dan Dickau with no return on your investment, is the team being too cheap to spend WISELY by securing “better” talent?

If Paul Pierce is not a franchise player, do you pay him like one? My point is that poor decisions are being made in money management and to “hide” those mistakes a whole new philosophy of team reconstruction emerges. We’ve overspent and not managemed money wisely…now that we can finally have access to top draft talent we must instead make a FINANCIAL move to cover past mistakes…Then we make another patchwork and costly move to acquire Allen Ray (which may turn out well) because the fans are DEMANDING change.

With this type of conflicting management style, who is running the ship? We have two choices…

1. Enter the luxury tax territory but secure worthy talent at deficient positions

2. Trade overpriced players so that we can build a team the right way…..perhaps another equally important move…Get the right management team in place…

This whole article reads like a puff piece written by a corporate shill. How much are they paying you, Eric?

You are operating on the benefit of hindsight though. If Dickau had come in and been a reasonable talent then no one would question this at all. Many people out there, including myself, thought he would be a solid addition. It is easy to say now that you were 100% against that move at the time. Also, Pierce IS a franchise player without a doubt therefore it was money well spent. Things just haven’t quite come together around him yet. All of these people that are being thrown around as players we should definitely sign have just as much potential to be busts as the ones we did sign and didn’t work out. We just don’t have to answer to the fans when it doesn’t. It is fine to question the moves, but when we start questioning the motives behind them we all look like fools. If they hadn’t bought the team, there is a good chance they’d be on here posting as fans like us. You don’t buy an NBA franchise for the money. They could make much more money investing their dollars in other ways and spending their time wiser.

Why don’t you crank out 2000 words for us libermaniac on your view of the State of the Celtics.

It’s called a discussion starting point, and thank you Eric for the effort.

Good article Eric,

I guess every team has to be optimistic before the season starts that they have a chance to get to the playoffs; not necessarily win the championship unless you’re San Antonio.

But if I were a betting man, I would say that the Celtics entering the season will grab the 8th spot behind the likes of Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, etc, where just no where near those particular teams at the present.

Granted putting Pierce, Allen, and Jefferson as three strong players to work around with is great, but

You need more to make the whole team in effect be winners. DEFENSE, DEFENSE, and more DEFENSE is needed along with a steady rebounder, and a quality veteran coming off the bench to add some depth.

Sorry but Ratliff doesn’t do it for me, even if he is healthy.

We have young kids who are “Unknown” sort to speak. The true test lies within the not only the expectations but, each players inner soul as far as what he is capable of bringing to the court. I’m speaking of the Rondos, Gomes, Greens, Allen and the other kiddy corps.

I’m sure were in for another up and down season with this team the way it’s constituted. There will be games where they may ring up 5 straight victories and then go and lose 7.

This team is so uncertain at the moment and Danny is still trying to piece more of the puzzle together.

I feel more comfortable with this team at this point in time then I did last season, but they need to address many issues before we even see another banner. Watching the summer league games, Oden and Durant have a good 3 years before they blossom into the caliber players they are expected to become.

We shouldn’t get over heads thinking that this team will do more then get by to the second round

As fans we neither have the resources, time or expertise to sift through the merits of prospective Celtic acquisitions. We naturally RELY on people who claim that expertise to make those kind of decisions.

However as fans we do see the PRODUCT of player acquisitions and therefore we are in a position to make our own value judgements. Since this is a “sounding board” for public opinion it’s reasonable to expect dissenting opinions on a wide range of subjects. We are all in a position to learn from each other.

I have been a Celtic fan longer than 90% of the bloggers on this board. My criticism of team direction has nothing to do with my NOT being a staunch fan. While I’d like to believe myself an optimist I also recognize that I’m also a realist.

I was very excited when Danny became director of team operations because I respected him as a player and valued his T.V. commentaries and later opinions as a team director.

Danny sold me on the idea of his “vision” and until recently I staunchly defended him. However, the events of the past two year’s have made me question whether his vision had changed as well as the team’s direction. I see so many contradictions in recent corporate decisions that I suddenly question whether his “vision” was but a MIRAGE.

I became convinced that it was more “mirage” than a “vision” when the coaching issue presented and as coaching vacancies occurred. The prospective names being bandied about were coaching retreads and not the defensive guru needed. Management’s excuse for not hiring top talent dealt with their inability to provide a contract term longer than Doc’s. Dire straights require drastic action and management’s reply was BUNK! Your’re never wrong when you get great coaching talent( I’m less sympathetic with coaching replacements and their staff chemistry).

The team has gone from 45 wins to 33 to 24. Even after the Ray Allen trade it is one of the worst teams in the worst division in the NBA. It certainly has the worst coach in the division. Maybe when things start going in the other direction intelligent people will have grounds for optimism. Until then, no.

Management’s assertions that this is a playoff team are a joke. The things they are saying about Ray Allen are exactly the things they said about Zoolander when they acquired him.

When are they going to build a team that doesn’t make us cringe when we watch them try to play defense?

Brick – the reason they’re saying the same thing about Ray Allen and Wally World is that they’re the same kind of player. The difference is that Ray Allen is a much, MUCH better version of the same player.

I watched all SL games with a keen eye on our guys. Also liked Barea of the opponents. But when the All Star team was picked by people who watched everyone, not one Celtic made it. I don’t remember Al last year but if blogger comments are true that he wasn’t very good in SL then all may be mute. But it does seem once again, regardless of the stage, Celtics don’t “Wow” many people. I’m excited by Leon, Rondo, Big Baby, Wallace, not down too much on G.Green, but it is becoming clear that no one else puts that much value on us.

I thought Powe’s omission from the list of the top 20 Summer league players was a joke.

moskqq – not questioning your ability or knowledge to assess moves that are made. That is what we are here for, agreed. The only beef is with those who question the motives of those making the decisions. There are good decisions and there are bad ones. But that is easy in hindsight. Anyone who professes that these guys aren’t doing their very best to make us a winner again though is just a complete moron. As far as percentages go, there is a huge chance we will never win another banner. Obviously we all hope they will, but no one is as vested in that accomplishment as the owners, Ainge, and Doc. None of us! So to pretend they aren’t doing their best and voicing that opinion here over and over shows the person making that comment is a complete idiot. Period!

Brick – I like how you’ve assessed us as finished already without even having played a preseason game. That says enough about your opinion. You are a hater plain and simple. If we won a championship this year you’d whine that we should have done it the year before. If every third comment on this board wasn’t your same old #$^% it would be sure much easier to skip over your “additions”. How are those Raptors doing by the way… Huh, Alec Baldwin?

Now lets talk about the moves and not the motives…

You can call me a hater if you like, but the kool aid will turn rancid about 20-25 games into the season. The only issue is what excuses they will come up with this time.

The first road trip to Texas or California will expose this team for what it is: mediocre at best.

moskqq made these points regarding Ainge’s ineffectiveness

1.Drafting philosophy that places the highest value on talent acquisition rather than NEED can cause roster imballances. One must weigh whether our quest for talent (instead of drafting for need) has been fruitful and whether our youth are truly attracting trade offers. Only then can we measure how successful our “talent upgrade” has become.
2.Yet when offered the opportunity to draft at the top end of the lottery he has elected instead to improve the franchise’s financial footing rather than it’s talent base.
3. Ainge has yet to “hit a home run” in his drafting choices (Jefferson was not the apple of his eye, Robert Swift was) and what he lucked-into was more fate than by design.

I’m somewhat confused. In one case you want him to draft for need. When he Traded (Telfair) and Drafted (Rondo) to fill the need at point guard, you dismiss it as a financial move. Why can’t they be both? Regardless if he overestimated Telfair’s ability, it was directed to fill a need. If he had drafted Roy and Foye, who were both 2 guards, “more of the same,” neither would have been ROY here…Ainge would have been critisized for that.

When he drafts, it’s all luck, just like the lottery..just not very good luck. He’s made excellent choices based on what is real…there is no luck to the decisions he made, based on what was available to him.

Critisism of the C’s is not a problem with me, but some of this seems inconsistant to the facts.

I understand that there are allot of people who are not as high on the team as I am. But, you still have to admit that it is better arguing over the potential of Rondo and Jefferson than it is trying to decide if Greg Minor is the only keeper on the team or if Todd Day will turn into a player.

“Into the Offseason” should read “No opinions needed.”
As of today, we have no idea what the team will look like on Nov. 1. I can’t manage to form an opinion on the Ray Allen trade anymore until I see something that is close to the end result.
We are entering the slowest portion of the NBA offseason.
I’m bored.

This is getting tiring and its the same talk over and over. After 5 bad years and every year just getting worse because of Ainge’s vision I can’t take anymore. Why does the Celtics Org keep this loser…No other team puts up with just a couple of bad seasons….this just gets worse and i can’t forsee it getting any better with Ainge and Doc! Like I stated before…what happens when PP turns into a cry baby because Ray Allen wants the touches and to score like Ricky did…it will be the same scenerio!

I still think danny failed to address this team’s biggest need which is defense. I would rather have had brewer or green and kept delonte. Yeah delonte and a rookie can’t score like ray allen but we are going to stink defensively this year unless theo ratliffe comes back or we sign a quality free agent and last I looked there aren’t any of those out there. As a fan I will continue to root for this team but danny’s moves the last 2 drafts have really taken the heart out of me. He went for the shortcut after preaching patience . It was a panic move and it will hurt us in the long run. the telfair deal has to be one of the worst if not the worst celtic trade ever. and sad to say, Gerald Green looks like a bust if you can call the 18th pick in the draft a bust. So I’m trying to stay optimistic but I just don’t see it. We will win more games but our future is not as bright as it could have been had danny kept his draft picks and just made solid choices like Roy and Green. I was all for trading wally so no problems there, and even delonte for the right deal. Consider a roster of Roy, Rondo, Perk, Jefferson and Green ( Jeff). That’s your starting 5 right there for the next 10 years even without Pierce. Had Danny made the move for Chris Paul it would love even better.Point is he still would have had Wally, theo, gomes, delonte, telfair, Pierce, veal, Gerald etc to trade. don’t tell me we are better off with the roster we now have because I don’t buy it.

please don’t compare Ray Allen to Ricky Davis……one is a perennial all star and quality individual and the other is a never was

They will make the playoffs by winning games. You win close games by getting stops and securing the rebound. I question the D, the Offense (the lack of a true fast break) and I definitely question the coaching. This team as constituted will have a hell of a season if they get into the 2nd round. If one points out a problem, it is not negativity, it is accuracy.

West is no longer on the team!

mcpu40 said:
I like the team.
I love watching them play.
I’m excited on game days.
I watched every summer league game.
And I think the team is going in right direction.
————————

I like the team——Okay.

I love watching them play——Okay, so you like watching a poorly coached team lose over twice as many games as they win?? Some of us remember the days when there was a product that we were proud of…you know, Mpcu40, when the team was like…trying to win…..

I’m excited on game day – To see Doc Rivers get outcoached? To see 30M and 1 rebound from your starting center (because of "intangibles") while the best available rebounder is getting a DNP?

I watched every summer league game – So did I.

And I think the team is going in the right direction.
- 45-33-24 wins…. This must be the masochistic approach to being a fan. I’m wondering what you’re basing the “right direction” on. A SG coming off two surgeries who probably won’t be ready for training camp? Two second round draft choices? An undrafted free agent? Did we get a new coach? A new GM?

Mpcu40, your bizarre perspective tells me that most of us have been fans longer than you’ve been alive. Those of us who have are used to a standard that made the Celtics the most storied franchise in sports history. Not one with an AAU-caliber coach trying to lose games in a quest to cheat for a draft pick.

Perhaps I’m in the minority here, but if at the end of the year we make the playoffs and appear headed in the right direction, then I’ll be happy. Overall, I’d say the Celtics management has done a moderately okay job of getting things sorted out. Not as quickly as I’d like, but they haven’t gotten too many of the breaks (what with injuries and ping-pong balls).

Sure, I was displeased with the Allen trade, and Gabe Pruitt doesn’t overly excite me. But my main thing is to watch for improvement (which is why Powe gladdened my heart in the summer league).

As for Doc, I don’t know. Maybe the coaching thing will get sorted out as well. Stranger things have happened. I’m going to hang around and watch.

What? No snide remarks regarding my pollyanna attitude?

And by the way, I refuse to deny I’m on the Celtic’s payroll.

Re blcelticfan; I think you may have misunderstood the underpinnings of my remarks about drafting for talent instead of need. I DO favor drafting for TALENT but that philosophy usually creates roster imballances (because good 1’s, 5’s, and 4’s are much less common than good 2’s and 3’s). That being said it’s important to look for trades to expend those acquired surpluses for roster deficiencies in order to correct roster imballances.

There is a problem trading for IMPACT 1s,4s.and 5s in that their relative rarity increases their trading cost. The question I raised was whether our philosophy of drafting for talent actually brought us talent sufficient to justify that philosophy. The apparent lack of interest in our players (not named Jefferson) suggests that we didn’t get good return on our draft choices.

In other words, while Ainge is “gifted” in selecting NBA players he’s not necessarily a drafting “guru” when it comes to finding NUGGETS as others have done. I placed part of the blame on our lack of a top-notch scouting system.

Ainge has been excused in the past for merely drafting “serviceable” NBA players and not impact-type players because his selections have been so deep in the draft. It creates concern when we do end up drafting in the lottery but elect not to select but to trade out of our only hope of landing an IMPACT player.

I call that a contradictory turn of events….to supposedly build through the draft yet fail to draft when the odds are best to acquire an impact player.

The vision for the future changed from patience with our youth to expediency-type moves because Paul Pierce’s career had a limited shelf live. I call that “changing horses in the middle of the stream”. It hardly “instills” confidence when one VISION fades into another and the team is drifting aimlessly as though without a master at the helm.

For those who don’t like Doc, my hunch is he will not be back when his contract is up, very likely, by his choice. No coach signs a one year extension at the terms Doc signed for.

For the person who asked why reporters haven’t asked Ratliff about playing next year, isn’t he in Africa with Ron Artest? I thought I read that somewhere.

Brick – Spoken like a true hater… You never told us how come you decided not to be a Toronto fan and aren’t “out of here” since they went and did exactly what you threatened would cause you to leave? It’s easy not being accountable isn’t it?! I’m not drinking Kool-Aid at all. I don’t think these guys are going past the second round with how the team sits. I do however think that would be a huge tournaround for us with a good chance of going even farther the following. If a trade is made, maybe we look even better. That’s just a fact. We are much better than this time last year. If you’d just stick to comments about moves vs. questioning the motives… Wait. Why am I bothering.

Jeff : enlist Po or someone to write something offbeat for a change .. the same topic brings out the same old tired and bitter opinions.Take it off on a tangent if you have the time. Perhaps letting us know who your favourite non celtic players are or whatever. anything.

What have been the C’s biggest weak spots?

Defense (ranked 24th last year in opposing FG%)
Turnovers (ranked 26th last year)
Coaching

The addition of Allen will help reduce turnovers. There has been nothing done to address defense or coaching.

We keep hearing “they’re not done”. Well, I am starting to become impatient. SL did not help Gerald’s trade value. Dealing Theo plus someone else at the trade deadline will probably be too late.

EJPLAYA said:

“Brick – Spoken like a true hater… You never told us how come you decided not to be a Toronto fan and aren’t "out of here” since they went and did exactly what you threatened would cause you to leave?"

I’ve already become a Raptors fan. I’m just waiting for the schedule to come out to book a couple of long weekends in Toronto for basketball and Indian food. And I plan to get NBA league pass as soon as Comcast makes it available so that I can watch the Raptors and the Sonics.

I’ll still watch the Celtics, although certainly not 80 games as I have in the past. And if they trade Jefferson, I will probably never watch the Celtics again. Trading away West to mollify Pierce was bad enough, but that would be the last straw.

DJ to Bird; To follow-up on the stats that you quoted…shooting percentage and TOs. The “party line” has attributed these failings as due to our youth. I would suggest instead that they are more reflective of our lack of skilled talent and a poor offensive/defensive system which EXPOSES our weaknesses in these area.

Truly skilled players (with a high BBIQ) don’t have NEGATIVE statisitics which overshadow their attributes.

…and so the controversy continues…the optimism continues…the criticism continues…

Brick – You’ve sure had a lot of “last” straws. It will be interesting to see what straw you come up with if/when they trade Big AL. No one on here buys that you would ever leave… I don’t think anyone wants you to leave, just to stop the “rediculous” comments questioning their loyalty and desire to win. You do add something to the blog even though sometimes it should be focused on ways to improve vs. ways to destroy someone’s name… You get teh benefit of doing your bashing in secret…

I get why some of y’all get a little frustrated at what you call “hating” (ah, the influence of hip-hop on lexicon), but did you stop and think for a moment that there’s a reason for all the hate? I mean, dag, sorry to pee in the corn flakes, but the slide of this team even further AFTER Ainge/Rivers have come on the scene — and, yes, the potential “motives” that have influenced that slide — are enough to make anyone hate.
Maybe you can’t get past the notion of someone STAYING and hating. OK, I also get that.
But really, truly, many of us are hanging by a thread with this team.
And I gotta tell ya, if Ainge doesn’t make the two moves needed to make this team a more veteran, defensive-oriented team (hello, Ratliff contract), I don’t know what I’m gonna do.
So yeah, for now, I’m hating.

I think Brick is focussed on the ways to improve, Playa. 24 wins means it’s essentially destroyed now. How much more destruction is possible? At this rate, we’ll surpass the Sixer’s record in 2009. I completely understand where he’s coming from. It’s hard not to question this team’s desire to win.

A great analogy is the one about 3/4s into the season when it became so obvious that they were trying to lose to gain a better lottery spot that their own player said it and the coach joked about it. I said the commissioner would intervene…..You, EJPLAYA, told me I was crazy. The C’s not only bred a losing (cheating) mentality to a young core…they didn’t get what they were cheating for, either…Neither did the other overt tankers. Amazing. So they roll the dice even further and trade for another player with a huge physical risk…while trading one of their healthiest and most solid players.

Destroy someone’s name? What Wyc, Ainge, and Rivers have done to this franchise is beyond explanation….and the tanking of last year was an absolute disgrace…Something a young team will pay for for years. But hey, it’s a profitable franchise!! For how much longer. I’m just one person, but I spent quite a bit both in Boston and in the midwest attending C’s games. I won’t go to another until Rivers is replaced. I wish EJPLAYA or Mcpu40 had some kind of sober explanation how we extend Rivers as a reward for spiraling down the ladder of success. If they do, I wonder what they’re smoking….it must be good.

There really isn’t any hope so long as Pierce is here. He’s like Grant Hill, Vince Carter or Alan Iverson: the all-star player who has to be traded if the team is ever going to improve.

Ainge and Grousbeck just don’t get it. The franchise is headed in a direction that is 180 degrees from where it should be headed.

Typical Negative vibes and posts of "blah blah blah blah blah gripe gripe gripe gripe why why why why why why no no no no no no no why why why why why why why don’t don’t don’t don’t don’t don’t yada yada yada yada yada

golly gee, Bird01, I couldn’t be more excited about our inevitable trip to the NBA finals in the 2007-2008 season. Our new great scorer should be well rested since he probably won’t be in training camp. The coach who has overseen our steller defense over the last 3 seasons is now taking it over himself. I’ve heard Perk is taking dance instruction so he can guard Tony Parker one-on-one in River’s defense with his improved footwork. I CAN"T WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Our turnaround will be greater than the Spurs of 10 seasons ago.

How’s that???

plowboy – didn’t really expect anything different from you oh disciple of Brick. The only difference in you and Brick is that you NEVER add anything of value on here. Just spewing that which you have heard from others. If you think that the draft was fixed you have absolutely proved you are insane. No way Stern would choose to have 2 of the best young players in a long time go to Portland and Seattle. The sober explanation for extending Doc’s contract is that he is actually well liked by his players and respected around the league. If there is any chance of attracting a decent free agent or convincing a player like KG to be okay with a trade to us, there has to be a perceived level of stability. Just because you hate Doc, does not mean that there is any validity to that. West, who you guys have heralded as the best player to ever put on a C’s uniform (that I have numerous times stated that I loved his heart) loved Doc. You may not believe, but the players sure did. Truth is Plowboy, you can try and put yourself in with Brick, but you have no where near his level of understanding of the game. Stop trying…

Brick – at least a comment that can be given merit. Your opinion is that they are headed in the wrong direction. That we can discuss! I have agreed in the past that you are right on probably needing to trade Pierce to have a chance at a banner. I think they are a much better team this year and there is an outside chance of getting a round or two won, but can’t compete all the way as is in the East, let alone go up against the West.

soap07, you’re right. Theo is in Kenya with Maurice Evans, Etan Thomas, and Ron Artest.

EJPLAYA said:
The sober explanation for extending Doc’s contract is that he is actually well liked by his players and respected around the league.

EJPLAYA, You don’t really believe that, do you?

The only explanation for his extension is that he tanked for his bosses. It’s the only explanation!

We set ourselves up for mediocrity when we decided to offer Pierce a max extension and continue to build around him. Odds are simply not in favor of that being a good move.

The weight of his contract will manifest itself in the coming years. One of the reasons West was moved was because he is due for an extension pretty soon, and we can’t pay everyone because of Pierce. Danny decided on Rondo over West because he simply won’t have the money to keep them both.

He also won’t have the money or desire to keep both Gerald and Tony Allen.

Why we decided to build around a nearly 30 year old Paul Pierce when we have a 22 year old budding All-Star big on the team in Al Jefferson is beyond me. Yes, Jefferson is still here, but you need to add young real talent around him… and you don’t do that by trading away the #7 and #5 draft picks.. signing a 30 year old player to a max extension, and then bringing in another overpaid 32 year old shooting guard that you don’t really need.

I feel like a broken record, but this team is just being managed the wrong way. I was giving Ainge the benefit of the doubt until we extended Pierce at the max… totally boneheaded.

I couldn’t have said it better myself Albin. And even if they did not trade Pierce on draft night, the best move would have been simply to draft Corey Brewer with #5. Then we would be stronger defensively and we would not be scrambling around furiously to find another point guard.

They could have tried to move Pierce later for younger assets.

But, LOL, instead og building around Jefferson they are looking to trade him, because they don’t want to pay him either. It’s completely insane.

iowa plowboy,
When EJPLAYA insults you, you know you’re doing domething right.

I love how “Brick disciple” has become an insult in here for anyone who gives a rational assessment that the team isn’t very well constructed. I truly enjoy Brick’s posts, but have tro admit that he is sort of the Rosie O’Donnell of CelticsBlog. Consistently caustic hyperbole. But Brick is much more entertaining and actually makes some valid points.

For everyone who actually thinks Theo Ratliff will have ANY impact at all this year … wake up.

The ultimate direction of the team is being driven by ownership. They aren’t patient enough to build a real championship contender b/c of finances. In one of the interviews I heard or read, Danny said “they” decided about year or so ago to go in the direction of building around PP (after he rejected going to Portland) vs. trading him and building around al and a young nucleus. The “they” must have included Wyc and whoever else in ownership.

Sticking with PP is the easy way and probably the most financially sensible for the short term. To me, and you have to think Danny realizes it, this is the best way to maybe get to the 2nd round a couple of times, bank some extra money at the gate, but not to win anything significant. If the team gets really, really lucky, they may get to the conference final. 3 playoff series of home games is likely pure profit. These guys aren’t Mark Cuban, the Dolans or Paul Allen, they need to make money and they have a lot of smaller (relatively speaking of course) investors who are expecting a return. Brick is 100% right unfortunately. Unfortunately, I don’t think that we are winning anything until this Wyc-led crew sell the team. Lets just hope the team continues to appreciate and they take the money and run.

Little D – I do believe we appear more stable to potential free agents and trades by having a coach that is not in a lame duck season. I am not saying that there might not be a bit of truth to the reward part, but it definitely is a valid assessment of stability. Why can’t anyone face up to the point that if the players like him he must be doing something right?! Even those idiots know more about basketball than we do and would not support him if they felt he wasn’t right for the job…

Cousin It – Funny! I like the Rosie O’Donnell bit. Very true. The rational assessment part is not the part that I have issue with. It is the irrational spewing of hatred with not credit whatsoever for the positive contributions. They get no love whatsoever from the “Brick Crew” and there are some positive things that they have done. The inability to admit that is where they stray. The “too cheap to pay” part is another example.

I love it when we give alternate ways to improve and get better. Trades we can make, lineups we could do better, styles of D that would improve us… I don’t like hearing someone just piss and moan the whole time. Don’t think many do…

EJ,
You definitely have me there. The team is what it is, and there’s little point in dwelling on the negative. I do think the team is better with Ray Allen. I just can’t help being skeptical that Ainge will make the complementary moves (Camby?)necessary to make an Allen-Pierce combo pay off. But the optimist in me really hopes I’ll be proven wrong. Maybe I should focus on the hope …

I’m actually a hopeless optimist. I predicted they would win 36 games last year.

In my opinion, the “kool aid drinkers” who have bought the company line and have been positive about the Celtics end up looking like idiots in hindsight. If you don’t believe me, go back and look at last summer’s posts.

There’s a reason that many posters on this blog are negative. The team is lousy, and has been a disaster for most of Ainge’s tenure.

Brick,
I think a lot of us fans have become bitter/skeptical/pessimistic because we’ve had our heart’s broken and been let down by four different administrations in a row, dating all the way back to Dave Gavitt.

There’s only so much heartache you can take before you go a little cold and get conditioned to expect the worst.

we have the pros and the cons with little in the middle- just a microcosm of our society itself. it is clear to me what an amazingly frustrating team this is as constituted, from the owners to management to the coach down to scal and allen ray. i hope they keep al; i could care less about pp.if he goes they better bring in someone more needed than ray allen. danny better finish what he started because this team looks very vulnerable.

There is something positively Orwellian about the talking heads on FSN. You know that everything they say about the Celtics is a lie, but you want to believe it anyway. They tell us that Ray Allen is the answer, that Paul Pierce is a hall of famer, that Allan Ray is a “great kid,” that Delonte West wasn’t that good anyway and that KG is still a possibility. Meanwhile, we haven’t seen a picture of Al Jefferson on celtics.com for at least two months.

Black is white, white is black.

 “There is something positively Orwellian about the talking heads on FSN. You know that everything they say about the Celtics is a lie, but you want to believe it anyway. They tell us that Ray Allen is the answer, that Paul Pierce is a hall of famer, that Allan Ray is a "great kid,” that Delonte West wasn’t that good anyway and that KG is still a possibility. Meanwhile, we haven’t seen a picture of Al Jefferson on celtics.com for at least two months.

Black is white, white is black."

Well, you know nothing about the personality of Allan Ray so he may just very well be a “great kid” and Delonte West wasn’t that good. My favorite notion of yours is when you claim that Delonte will average 18/8 next year.

Being a “Brick disciple” is an insult.

No, I said West would average 15-7. Don’t exaggerate.

I couldve swore you said 18-8…

This thread is a perfect example of why management teams and coaches are recycled in the NBA – when they get fired, other owners know that it wasn’t because of lack of skill, but because the owner who fired them was pacifying fickle and arrogant fans who all think it’s just so easy to “build a winner.”

Owners know that there is really no such thing until you get a transcendent player. They also know that there aren’t but 5 of them in the league at any point in time and there are only two ways to get one: trade for one (nearly impossible) or draft one (total luck). The only person to successfully do the first was Jerry West – and he did it twice!! (Kareem, Shaq)

Owners know that this job is incredibly difficult and will end in failure for all the other 25 teams that don’t have one of these players. So, they pander to their fans. Fire the management or coach when things go bad and then hire someone else’s “unskilled, idiot” of a coach or GM – who they know is actually pretty darn smart and skilled.

So, we could be like all the other idiot fans across the country. Or we could live up to our reputation as knowledgeable fans and realize that the Celtics were an unwatchable team 5 years ago with no shot (via trade or draft) to get the kind of player we need, and now we have just gone through an off-season where we had a legitimate chance at the transcendent player we need (both by draft and by trade). We could blame the management for changing strategies, poor execution, or just plain stupidity. Or we could realize that putting us in position to acquire a top player in the only two ways we can get one has been a marvel of an accomplishment.

So, we could sit back an enjoy a watchable, enjoyable season of basketball, while the management team that put us a in a great position this off-season figures out how to put us in a similar position again in the not too distant future. Or we can be idiots and railroad them out of town. And make no mistake about it – the owners will fire all of them if the fans crow enough. Even if they know we’re all idiots because we think we could have done better ourselves, we’re still the idiots with the money that they want.

nevermind come to think of it you said his ceiling was 18-8..

EJPLAYA said:
The sober explanation for extending Doc’s contract is that he is actually well liked by his players and respected around the league. If there is any chance of attracting a decent free agent or convincing a player like KG to be okay with a trade to us, there has to be a perceived level of stability.

The perceived level of instability was underlined in capital letters when ownership would not extend Doc past one year and could not come to terms with an assistant coach. That alone should tell everyone in the basketball world what the situation in Boston is. If anyone transaction may
 convince a KG type player to come to town it was the acquisition of Ray Allen.

moskqq,

I appreciate the frustration, but I think with every well intended plan comes revisions, based on the current VS projected circumstances. I’m sure we will have plenty of opprtunity to see how the plan adjustments work out.

But please consider this:
“The apparent lack of interest in our players (not named Jefferson) suggests that we didn’t get good return on our draft choices.” Do you know this how? Inside information? Because moves haven’t been made? Our youth, except Gomes were all early drafts, which need more time to deveop into impact players, or even good role players. It has been contended that offers for our youth have been to fleece us of our talent (see JJohnson) for pieces that don’t fit but offer the other team financial relief. 3 years is when they start to “break out” and I’m expecting to see more from most of them. The interest in Jefferson changed dramatically over one season, so I’m ok waiting to see what else develops.

“It creates concern when we do end up drafting in the lottery but elect not to select but to trade out of our only hope of landing an IMPACT player.” I’m wondering, who would that impact player be that we could have drafted that would be even slightly capable of having the impact of Ray Allen? We both watched the summer league, and I for one was significantly underwhelmed by the Yi, Green, Oden, etc. performances. Will they grow into something? Most likely, but then you are in the same dilemna as above? As for imapct players let’s not forget Telfair AND Ratliff. Obviiously the Telfair expectation was too high (sip of Koolaid), but I think there is still hope that with maturity he can be a dynamic pg. The majority on this site seem to want to see it come to fruition here. Ratliff has been the link to all other trade hopes because of money. Yet, if he is healthy as reported today, and contributes, as he teased us early last year with defending the middle, we’ll all be excited by the unexpected contribution in such a critical position. There is no doubt this imnpact was an expectation of this trade. It didn’t happen as designed, but not from a lack of intent. Injuries are out of control. Bad player evauations are errors injudgement, which happen but must ne held to a minimum. Roy would not have been an imact player here, or ROY here, as there would have been throngs of critism for drafting another 2, and he would have been behind WS, TA, DW.

Believe me there are parts of me that feel the same way you do, but I’m not convinced, based on your suggestions, that this leadership has been as ineffective as you posture it.

Now that this blog is by far the most popular Celtics blog around, one really has to wonder how many posters here are corporate shills. Weiss is a given. EJPLAYA? Who else? I think there are at least 3. Not everyone who drinks the Kool Aid is one, but… My company isn’t nearly as large as the Celtics organization, yet we have 3 employees that spend a good deal of their time planting stories on various blogs, posting favorable comments, etc…

greenkite71 – So who here is a shill for another organization? Think we have a Raptors employee here full time, trying to get us to switch allegiances?

They get no love whatsoever from the “Brick Crew” and there are some positive things that they have done. The inability to admit that is where they stray. The “too cheap to pay” part is another example.
——————————————-
Please humor me and name some of those positive things you’re talking about. You shouldn’t need much space….Unless you continue to show the amazing vivid imagination that only you possess.

I don’t know Brick from Adam and disagree with him often. But this isn’t rocket science, PLAYA. The defense run last season was the same one they ran 3 years ago to cover Payton’s lazy defense. Not it cover’s Paul’s….Who must have seen the “light” from Payton. It doesn’t work. Why keep doing it? I watched 5 games live and 75 other C’s games last season. There is a few subtle differences between Rivers when he wants to win and when he doesn’t. But sometimes it truly is hard to tell the difference. I went to 5 games last year and 4 were winnable games that Rivers strategized to lose. I can provide specifics if you’d like, PlAYA. I may be insane, PLAYA, but I observe the commisioner and how he guards the integrity of the game. There was no way whatsoever that he was going to reward OVERT tanking. That makes me insane?

Apparently you, PLAYA, have a much better understanding of the Celtics, the NBA and the commissioner….Not to mention the game of basketball. Your goal must be a 16-66 season…..because you can see the positive in moving backwards. This must be the drug addict’s approach to being a fan….You have to hit rock bottom first. If we end up 16-66, PLAYA, just for future reference….we’ll choose 4th in next year’s draft….or lose the pick altogether.

The current Boston Celtics are neither “stable” nor “respected”, PLAYA, and neither is their coach.

There you go plowboy! Take the gloves off… The problem here is that I have never professed to be an expert on this, rather just a passionate interested fan. You don’t address the truth of the matter ever about what I am complaining about with your comments. I am not upset that you think we should go in a different direction, rather the obvious hatred and blinders which you make comments from. Your posts are always "You’re right Brick (Or whichever person is whining at the time) and then you just twist what they are saying into your own words. Nothing original, nothing thought provoking. Just the same hateful crap over and over. All I ask for are ideas to get better or change the direction so we can win again. No one wants to hear you whine all the time. Make a criticism and then explain how you would do it differently. That’s it!

How about this for examples of things they have done well…

PP has had his best season under Doc
Big AL was developed into an upcoming star under them.
They brought in Clifford Ray to teach the post players.
Gomes was an unbelievable pick in the second round.
Trading a future pick for Rondo was a great move.
Signing Perk to a contract at a reasonable figure while he was hurt was a great move.
Not caving and signing Doc to a longer contract was a good move. (one yr vs the 2-3)
Getting Ray Allen and Big Baby for what they gave up is one great move. (you’ll see)

There are more. You just can’t say that they haven’t done anything at all wisely and be taken seriously. There are a lot of things that these guys coulda/shoulda done differently. It is easy to be an arm chair quarterback.

Live in the real world about the draft though. There is no way that an organization that is pumping out the cash that the NBA does would risk having it all destroyed by fixing the lottery. Our biggest chance statistically was to NOT get one of those 2 picks. It’s math plowboy. Maybe you should have spent a little more time in the classroom than out in those fields…

If you think we are a worse team today than we were this time last year then you have absolutely lost it. Enough said.

greenkite71 – Not a corporate shill. Wish I was. Just a fan down in NC that likes to discuss the Celtics and does it for enjoyment rather than releasing venom all the time. If I couldn’t be positive about my team then I would get another hobby. You mistake the pointing out the positive for blind allegiance. Go back and look at the posts. I criticize moves, not the individuals motives.

EJPLAYA said:
PP has had his best season under Doc
————————————————————
Paul had his best season under Doc? Which season was that? Was it season one when he had great stats, played little defense early, none late, and melted down in the playoffs?

Was it season two, when he had great stats, played no defense, and his team made the lottery?

Or was it season three, when he had good stats, played no defense, and sat out the end of the season while healthy? And called himself a “great player on a bad team”.

Paul had his best seasons under Obie and Obie/Carroll, when he played both ends of the court with the same intensity.

I don’t think we’re a worse team today than we were this time last year. But had we had the desire to win and not to cheat we wouldn’t have been a worse team last year than the year before….But that would require a different coach and a different approach to defense. That PLAYA, is my explanation as to how to do it differently. Doc’s approach to defense was the same in Orlando. It’s not a coincidence. It’s not going to change. You talk about “respect and stability”?? Rivers’ best player tanked for a trade in Orlando. Rivers’ best player in Boston stopped playing defense upon Rivers’ arrival. Like I said, it’s not rocket science. When the same players make the same mistakes in the same situations for consecutive games and seasons, changes need to be made. Getting Allen is a bandaid. Like Payton was. If he and Paul come in healthy, we’re a .500, 7-8th seeded team who gets blown out in the first round. Because that’s what happens to playoff teams who don’t play defense.

Unlike you, PLAYA, I actually remember when the goal was to win championships and not cheat to get there. Criticizing motives? Listen to Doc’s jovial non-denial and Gomes’ own words. I watched with my own eyes as healthy players were held out and strategys were designed to lose games.

I’ve been a fan for 40 years, PLAYA. I heard Johnny Most announcing Russell’s last championship on my radio. I saw the intensity of Cowens, Silas, and Havlicek in the Garden. I saw the intensity and courage of Bird after slamming his head on the court and Parish and McHale running on half-wheels…and Danny Ainge sprinting on a pulled hamstring. What’s saddest to me is that Danny Ainge was a key member of championship teams. He should know better.
————————————————————————-
Not caving and signing Doc to a longer contract was a good move. (one yr vs the 2-3)

??????

Lot of emotion and “remembering” plowboy. Not much substance. All I just read was a history lesson on the Celtics that I know well. Although not as old as you obviously must be, I go back pre-Bird as a fan and remember the great years which is why I am still a fan.

Once again no credit whatsoever for positive moves. You pick the couple you disagree with, and I can at least understand your reasoning behind the PP part although still disagree that he is a better overall player now than before, but you ignore the few that you can’t disagree with. Then make a nice “speech” about the Celtics of old. We all love the Celtics of old so that doesn’t mean much. If you are too bitter to even admit there are some positive things they have done, then you ought to take a step back and ask why…

I think the long-term price for Allen was too high….so I disagree with your assertion there. If he plays well, the long-term price is still too high. If he ends up like Wally did, it’t catastrophic.

Gomes was a great pick. Powe was a good pick. Greene was a good pick and should have been given one more year to develop. I think Davis will be a good pick as well.

I think coach Ray is an excellent addition. I think his impact will be best felt when a true defensive system is in place. The players he coaches, under this system (or lack thereof), are constantly out of position. There were parts of the 2005-2006 season when appeared that Doc or Brown recognized that Perk isn’t mobile enough to chase guards on the perimeter and he was allowed to play a more traditional center defensively and he had a positive effect defensively. Same with Ratliff for the short 2-game stint last season. The fact that Perk and Al have improved markedly in spite of that says a lot about their work ethic and Ray’s tuteledge.

The Rondo and Powe moves last season were good moves.

I don’t know how many tickets you bought last year. Had I not bought them far in advance, I’d have not gone to the last 4 games. That game was in January….and was lost in the last seconds because there was no timeout called and no play called…..If it makes you mad when someone makes a realistic asessment of what he’s watching, I feel sorry for you. At that point in the season, Paul, coming off his injury for the second game, wasn’t yet with the tanking program and was furious with Doc after the game. Fans next to me were asking me what the hell Rivers was thinking. If the true goal was to be competitive, Rivers would have been fired a long time ago, PLAYA.

Wow! You actually owned up to the fact that not everything they did was bad!! That’s a first. See how nice that feels to actually say something positive.

We are much better spending that money on a multiple year all-star than Wally who will never again be an all-star. We traded Waly, Delonte, and Jeff Green for Ray Allen and Big Baby. The only way we don’t come out ahead on that one is if Ray can’t play anymore. No one believes that is the case. Delonte was my favorite player on the C’s the last couple years, but it was due to his hustle, not his talent. He’s as good as he’ll ever be. Jeff Green is a nice player, but the last thing this team needs is another player who will be good in a few years.

I bought no tickets because I live down in NC, but even so have seen 3-4 games up there over the last few years. I do purchase NBA league pass each year and watch every single game.

If you truly feel the Celtics goal is not to be competitive then I feel sorry for YOU…

If you truly feel the Celtics goal is not to be competitive then I feel sorry for YOU…

That obviously was exactly what their goal was last year, wasn’t it? hmm….

Plowboy – It WAS NOT their goal. Their goal was to get as deep into the playoffs as they possibly could. They knew at the start of the year that they weren’t a championship team, but that they should be able to jump up to the 6-8 seed with a little luck and get some playoff experience and then make adjustments this offseason. Instead, they had a huge amount of injuries to their starters who missed close to half the season combined in games played and it set them further back than the year before. Based on that happening their plan B was to get these young players as much playing time as they could to make a decision as to who they want to keep and who they wanted to get rid of. Hopefully a player or two would separate themseleves from the pack (Big Al) and demonstrate they could be a key component for years to come. Then others could demonstrate enough potential to give more chances to (Rondo) and some show enough to be attractive trading pieces in the offseason (Green, Gomes, Delonte, TA until he got hurt). Others would demonstrate the need to completely replace (Allan Ray) Allowing Pierce to continue to sit out there and take up valuable time from these youngsters would have been completely idiotic for the franchise because then you don’t get to see these guys out there enough to know what you have. If Pierce had played more we would have won 5-10 more games, still been in the lottery, and not have a clear picture as to who we keep, who we trade, and who we let loose. The added bonus was that depending how far we fell we would get a higher chance at a draft pick. There is no question that was a bonus. They knew it, we knew it. It WAS NOT however the plan for last season. If we had pushed Pierce back into duty too soon you would have been whining that we were hurting Pierce needlessly. That is the way it is with whiners and pessimists. No matter what happens you will look for a conspiracy, find the glass half full, and find a place to bring everyone else down. None ofus have even the slightest idea of what goes on behind closed doors and stop pretending like you do. There is a reason they are in upper management and we are posting on a blog. I for one give them credit for what they do well, criticize when it is appropriate, but never am a conspiritist because that is just plain moronic.

If Pierce had played more the red flags wouldn’t have gone up and Wyc and Ainge would have had a much better shot at the vaunted draft pick. The team would at least know how to win. As it was, benching Pierce for the season after a 52 minute effort sealed their fate. If you think that the ping pong balls just “fell” into three the worst teams happenning to fall into a worst case scenario….???? I don’t pretend to know what goes on behind closed doors, PLAYA. But I can read between the lines when not a single complaint from the management from those three teams is heard about the lottery. Not one. Not one of them calling for a change? Strange, isn’t it? Almost like they knew beforehand.

By virtue of that worst case scenario, there was not one added bonus to cheating. You have a core with the same coach accustommed, and probably numbed, to losing. They would have had a much better chance of landing Oden or Durant had they played to win. They chose plan B.

Obviously you don’t live in the real world, so you’re beyond help. If a person is convinced of conspiracy there isn’t much you can do. What would be the point of these guys complaining?! They knew there was a bigger chance of them to get a lower selection going in. Complaining does what for them?! Makes them look like bitter conspiritory freaks like you. That’s it. Professional people in the real world don’t act like that.

There was a bonus. We know more about those other players by having them sit than we would to have them stand around watching Pierce launch shots and try to split triple teams. That is a fact and a huge benefit to us at this point. I know now that GG is not probably ever going to be a superstar and that he is dispensable. I know that Delonte will never be a true point and that he really isn’t more than a backup there or at the two which he got to play more of as well. I know that Gomes really has a longer range than we previously thought and so did other teams watching him. I know that Big AL can be a number one scoring option in the post and not just Pierce’s clean up man. Pierce now knows this as well. I know that Rondo can run this team but needs a jumper. I know that these guys showed they had heart and class by fighting through some very tough games and not giving up and getting blown out when they were overmatched almost every night. You may not think that that isn’t a bonus or valuable to this team, but then again, why do we care. You just want to be negative.

In a real world, PLAYA, one, two, or three of the three worst teams don’t suffer the worst case scenario in the NBA lottery by happenstance. The odds of the 3 teams suffering that fate are about a quarter-of-a-million to one…so I guess, in the real world, it could happen…….uh-huh.

We won’t know how good Gerald will be until there is a coaching change. It would be rare that someone with his physical gifts turn out to be a superstar because they rely too much on the physical gifts and don’t learn how to play the game. It’s doubly bad in Gerald’s case because he’s not being taught anything about the game. The reality is we won’t know who and who isn’t a solid defender until we get a coaching change. It’s clearly not a priority.

I don’t know the bonus, PLAYA, of getting extended playing time in an 18 game losing streak. I don’t see the bonus in getting minutes when being coached to lose. What do you discover about a player when you’re tanking? In 3 of the 5 games I went to and numerous other games during the season Rivers would find a combination to catch us up from a deficit and then that combination would not see the light of day until the game was out of reach. What does that accomplish? A culture of losing. It cancels out the bonus, PLAYA. I’m being realistic. You’re in a fantacy world. We knew that Rondo needed a jumper when he was drafted. We knew that Gomes, because of his work ethic and basketball IQ, would work through the weaknesses in his game. We would have known about Big Al with or without Paul. We’d have just won a lot more games…and somehow, in your mind, that’s a bad thing….because we wouldn’t have had the “bonus” of a 24 win season.

Coaching them to lose the game. Right… That would have been in the paper by now from West and Wally had that been the case. Your math is a little screwy, because you only have to have three teams out of the lottery with a lower seed get drawn ahead of those three in order to automatically slot the other three in that order. There was a 12.3% chance that we would get the 5th pick. The Grizzlies had a 35.7% chance of getting the 4th pick and the Bucks had a 4.1% chance of getting the 6th pick. What you are not looking at was that Portland’s 5.3% chance of first, Seattles 9.7% chance of getting 2nd, and the Hawks 13.3% chance of getting 3rd is not that great of a long shot. Once those three happened, the other three had to fall into place. Not that big of odds Mr. exaggerator…

Sad to be you I guess. Have a nice depressing and miserable rest of your life. I’m done wasting mine wallowing with the pigs. Tired of getting dirty…

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We won’t know how good Gerald will be until there is a coaching change. It would be rare that someone with his physical gifts turn out to be a superstar because they rely too much on the physical gifts and don’t learn how to play the game. It’s doubly bad in Gerald’s case because he’s not being taught anything about the game. The reality is we won’t know who and who isn’t a solid defender until we get a coaching change. It’s clearly not a priority."

He hasn’t learned anything in the NBA? He is twice the player he was his rookie year. Why do people keep forgetting this?