Ratliff Expects To Play

I’ll believe it when I see it.
Any play from him this year would help. If he actually plays at a solid level of contribution, even better but not very likely

"I’ve been working out, working with a personal trainer, working out hard four or five times a week. I’ve been able to play a little bit.

I think it’s great Theo is working out with a personal trainer. Let me know when he’s pushing Eddie Curry around.

Also…

When asked if the trade talk bothered him, Ratliff said, “I know how the business works. I’ve spoken to Danny [Ainge] and he said he was looking to be able to use me this season. That’s what I’m going on.”

“looking to be able to use me this season”…duh, you think? A veteran center with a penchant for defense. I guess the heck Ainge could use him.

APRIL FOOLS!!!

oh wait..

Its July..

I’m not sure why the Celtics are pushing Ratliff’s ability to play next year. He has more trade value if he can’t play because then his contract would be covered 80% by insurance.

The Celtics better find someone with length and the ability to defend down low. The alternative is to suffer through a year of Powe, Scalabrine, Davis and Gomes trying to defend bigs.

It will never happen. Danny will trade him for another over the hill vet with bad knees, ankles and/or back. Along with drafting well in the middle of the first round, this is Danny’s true gift.

remember olowakandi last year? how many games did he sit or was out because of injury? brick is spot on- he’s more valuable on ir.

if he plays he’ll help us…as he plays,the contract runs down and he’s more valueable..if he can’t play,insurance kicks in and he’s even more valueable….this chip is the best out there and will be until Feb

Sorry but Brickowski is not “spot on”. It’s just that Brickowski feels that ownership is cheap and would rather have the insurance money. Ratliff – when he was healthy – was exactly what we needed. And still need badly snce I’m not a believer i Perk as a starting center. Ratliff is a major chip in a successful season if he can come back. If he can’t then C’s should not trade that slot but use it next year for Al’s big jump up.

He is more valuable if he can play. The problem with trading his expiring contract is that you just get bad contracts back in return. If there was a good deal to be made with Theo’s contract, it probably would have made by now. If Ratliffe can play, he is better than pretty much anyone the Celtics could get off the free agent market right now. With Wally gone, the Celtics are down to one grossly overpaid stiff, that is Ratliff. If Ratliff can play, he is only a moderately overpaid defensive big man. Why trade that for a new group of overpaid stiffs with contracts that run for three and four years? I would rather the Celtics take their chances with Ratliff and his one year deal than bring in one year wonder Camby and see him injured next year with his multi year deal or wose yet Kirlenko and his $63 million deal. UGH.

I would rather him play then let his contract bring in a tweener like Al Harrington or some second tier player who will have zero affect on this teams win column.

No, it’s not about saving money, although that is certainly a consideration. The point is, that if they want to trade Ratliff and his expiring deal for someone who can actually play, the receiving team would only have to pay 20% of Ratliff’s 11 million. He has much more trade value when he’s hurt than when he’s healthy.

Theo is a 12-year vet who missed all of last season and hasn’t been able to play a full season in a long time. The odds are, even if he can come back this year, he will end up breaking down at some point. I’m not trying to be mean, but that is the likely outcome.

I would hope the team would acquire something more reliable. We already are banking on the young guys continuing to improve with experience, lets not add Theo’s health as another factor. I have no problem being patient and holding onto him into the season to wait for the right player to become available, but I’ll be pretty disappointed if he is still with the team after the trading deadline.

His value is his expiring deal and how it can be used as a trade chip to acquire another player.

I agree. Ratliff on the court at this point is useless, regardless of this crap he’s saying now. He’s finished in the NBA on the court. He has much more trade value when hes hurt.

Even if it weren’t a ridiculous idea at this point, he’s just had a year off due to injury and surgery, says he’s back to where he can ‘play a bit’ now—but he’s not in the gym working up his strength and game.

Hard to imagine Ratliffe playing and playing well all year, but stranger things have happened. I really thought that the contract would be valuable but it doesn’t seem to be. I would rather let it expire and take a chance on some production for Ratliffe than trade it for a bunch of overpaid stiffs with even bigger contracts. Everyone assumes that it is possible to trade Ratliffe for someone who can play, but I am not sure that is true. Yeah, the Celtics could get someone, but I would rather have the contract expire than be stuck overpaying for someone.

Ratliff will be nothing but a back-up at this point anyway. Jefferson and Perkins evolving into good defensive players is what this team needs to get to the next level. I also think Big Baby can play some minutes at Center as well. Obviously he’s too slow to guard quick 4’s but he is tough and can rebound and score well.

True enough Mr. Bomb. If he is healthy, Ratliffe can be productive for 10 or 15 minutes a game especially against bigger centers and especially late in games when the Celtics never seem to be able to stop people from scoring.

Err…. wasn’t the whole plan to use Ratliff’s expiring deal (along with one or more young players and a pick or two) as the centerpiece of a deal for someone like Odom, Kirilenko or Camby? What happened to that idea? If that strategy is still valid, the injured Ratliff is much more valuable than an allegedly healthy Ratliff.

Sorry, but this is just a cheap attempt to sell the Celtics fanbase on the notion that they will simply let Ratliff’s contract expire to save money, without even attempting to turn him into a basketball asset. It stinks.

So I guess the “other shoe” is going to be Jannero Pargo. Boy, that would put the Celtics right up there as a championship contender.

Trading for Kirlenko would be the worst thing the Celtics could do. At least Ratliff is only owed one more year. Get a guy like Kirlenko and you are stuck paying another garbage player big money for years. I would take Odom in a minute, but why would the Lakers do that deal? Maybe if they were positioning themselves for the 08 free agent market or it was some kind of three way deal. That maybe the plan but it apparently isn’t going to work. It looks like the best the Celtics can get for Ratliff would be overpaid trash like Kirlenko, in which case they are better off doing nothing.

The reality is that if they trade Ratliff for another 11 million dollar player, and also sign Jefferson to an extension, they are going to pay luxury tax for at least the first year of Big Al’s new deal.

They won’t do it, no matter how much they could improve the team by trading Ratliff for a real basketball player.

How could they improve the team by trading Ratliffe? Who is lining up to make a deal? They certainly wouldn’t improve the team long term by takiung on lousy or average players with big contracts. Why would anyone give up a a player who produces enough to justify their salary just to get cap space?

So JohnCK, if you don’t like Kirilenko, trade Ratliff for someone else. Good player make good money. Pick one.

The point is that they are not going to trade Ratliff—period— unless they trade Jefferson. The mantra is “no luxury tax.” Basketball is tertiary at best.

Isn’t this like the third time in the past few weeks that we’ve been fed this story? The gave the same line to Bulpett, who dutifully printed it in the Herald. Not it’s Shira Springer in the Globe. Are there other regular Celtics beat writers? If so, we can probably expect to see the same story in their publications. I’m sure that someone in the Celtics PR department has figured out how often you have to repeat a lie before folks start believing it.

I bought the trade Ratliffe idea to. I was wrong. I don’t see anyone wanting the contract. Perhaps expiring contracts are not as valuable as everyone thinks. I would love the Celtics to turn Ratliff into a productive player. Not an ovepaid player but a productive player who earns his salary. I just don’t see who that player is.

  I’m sure his back won’t hurt anywhere near as bad in a contract year as in a non-contract year. And of course a year off and a year older will certainly improve his skills.

Trading Theo makes sense if we’re acquiring a worthwhile but expensive player from a payroll-sensitive team in return. Add in a valuable young player or two from our side and that increases the level of player we can get in return.

I get the idea that Danny had the okay to trade Theo for KG or his near equivalent only. Brick is probably right in that penny-pinching Wyc didn’t want to ‘spend’ Theo for anything less. Seattle coming around on the RA trade meant we could ‘afford’ to placate PP, but short of a follow-on KG blockbuster Danny didn’t have the authorization, interest or chips to flesh out a ‘win now’ option.

Realistically we’re back to hoping for the playoffs and praying that our youth develop into more than expected.

It is a contract year. It is amazing how usual deadbeat players find a way to play well in those years. I am sure Ratliffe would love to take a few more million from the NBA. Unless he is in a wheel chair, my guess is he plays in some capacity this year.

Ratliffe’s going nowhere. His contract money is slotted for the resigning of Jefferson. But as long as he’s here, and if he can give us any backup minutes, then it’d be a good break for the Celtics. If he’s healthy enough to play a bit, then he’s a good fit for one of the gaping holes the Celtics have.

Ratliff will occupy the Michael Olowokandi Memorial slot on the Celtics roster.

Something tells me that Glenn Davis will be playing significant minutes for the 2007-2008 Celtics.

This was the same party line that Shira wrote last year despite Theo having been a corpse over the two previous seasons in Portland. He is toast and has more value to the team as an insured contract…..although this value is limited and very much overvalued by many Celtics fans. Teams do not craze expiring deals as they have in the past under previous CBA’s….there is only true value if you have move that contract as part of a larger deal that includes Jefferson. Otherwise, we will receive little in return for Theo except maybe another bad contract to add another season to that salary slot….which ownership has failed to do in the past.

some of you guys are so conspiratorial. maybe theo actually DOES feel good and WANTS to play? sounds crazy, i know.

I think the Celts should put their money where their mouths are. They think they’ve got a great team as is. Fine. Roll them out there and see what happens. Let’s see if Theo can be the veteran defensive presence we need. If not, his expiring deal will have a ton of trade valuye at deadline time.

My prediction is this: 42-46 wins IF Allen, Pierce, and Jefferson stay healthy, a first round playoff exit and a new coach in the offseason (after all the big names are OFF the market, of course).

HRB, if you’re still around, please explain why teams don’t crave large expiring contracts “as they have in the past under previous CBA’s”. I don’t understand why a team that wanted to lower its payroll, wouldn’t want a large expiring contract.

no kidding, I think I can explain this.

Teams don’t crave large expiring deals quite as much because the luxury tax works differently under the new NBA collective bargaining agreement. Under the old agreement, teams that paid luxury tax did not get a share of the luxury tax proceeds. Also, under the old agreement teams did not know beforehand whether or not the tax would be imposed in any given year. This element of uncertainty increased the risk and made luxury tax avoidance a higher priority.

Under the new CBA, even teams that pay the tax get back 1/30th of the luxury tax proceeds. Also, there is always a tax for teams above the threshhold, so teams can plan ahead to avoid it.

Having said that, Ratliff’s contract still has significant value for teams over the luxury tax threshhold. Currently those teams are NY, Dallas, Denver, Phoenix and MN, with Philly right on the cusp.

San Antonio was also over the threshhold, but they solved that problem with their recent trade of Jackie Butler and Scola’s rights to Houston in exchange for a player who wants out of his contract. Now they are just under the 68 million-dollar threshhold.

Thank you, Brick.

Wyc is cheap.

Tradetime, why don’t you put up the money?

Ratliff is not the answer. But the Celtics don’t own the Globe or Herald: beat writers of all sports write this stupid crap all off season long. Player X for team Y is feeling great and might recapture some glory from Z years ago, which would make GM A look better, and the deal for B seem like a steal.

Fill in the blanks:

Theo for Celts, feeling great, could recapture previous All Star form (last seen 6 years ago), which would make Aingle look great, and the deal that cost them Roy a steal.

I think the beat writers tend to be more positive in the off season, I guess high team expectations and an optimistic fan base sell more papers.

If the beat writers aren’t optimistic in the off season, they end up sounding like Peter May, which is not a pretty picture.

Perhaps Danny is convinced that Ratliff can and will play this season.
And that is why he has not pulled off a trade for a big man.

I think I’ve read this story before. Like when he played in Portland. And when he was traded to Boston. Ratliff’s greatest skill seems to be getting beat reporters (and an accasional GM) to believe he cares and is capable.

Sure Ratliffe may never play a minute for the Celtics this season. If he doesn’t, then the Celtics are out nothing more than we expected. But I’m interested to hear he might be available to play. What’s the big deal? I’m not going to mortgage my house or anything.

If we could turn Ratliffe’s contract for a player like Kirilenko then I am all for that. He is a player who will produce for many years in this league and would immediately help this team. If not, you jeapordize Big AL’s resigning by dumping him. The worst thing we could do is trade him for a stiff to just appease the masses. Usually teams are trying to unload a high price underachiever with “potential” on someone else in this scenario. That is the last thing we need. If Ratliffe could play this year, which I am not real convinced he can, then a mostly healthy is better than anyone out there available other than Kirilenko.

Trade Ratliffe, GG, and our #1 next year (and any other filler needed to make it work other than the core) for Kirilenko and we will be in fine shape come playoff time.

Brick, you are probably right about Theo being more valuable in a trade if he is hurt so the isurance will pay for most of his contract. But if he’s not hurt, the insurance won’t pay. Are the C’s supposed to commit insurance fraud? If the guy is healthy, he’s healthy. That’s all there is to it. Maybe he’ll get hurt two games in again, maybe he won’t, but they can’t pretend he’s injured when he’s not.

What is the downside? If he plays well he gives us a back up center who can block shots, rebound and share time with Perk. If he isn’t healthy you let the contract expire and use the money to resign Jefferson.

The reality is that he’s not going to be dealt anyways, so unless you’re actually a part of management and gets to collect the insurance money….there’s no reason for any of us to care whether or not that money’s collected. What we should care is strictly if we’re better on the floor with him in there or with him on the shelf.

Company line or not, I am just glad that one of Boston’s writers actually made the attempt to find Theo, contact him and ask HIM how he feels. All we’ve been getting is Ainge and Rivers telling us how important Theo could be. Blah, Blah, Blah. Of course he’s going to be optimistic, but again, at least he’s saying he’s been working out. But it’s not a good sign that he hasn’t tried to even play yet.

Look, if they are going to let Ratliff’s deal expire so as to have the money to extend Jefferson, that’s fine. If it’s an either-or situation, I’d much rather have Jefferson than the player they could acquire with Ratliff’s contract.

But if ownership was willing to pay luxury tax in 2008-2009, it wouldn’t be an either-or situation.

Also, if they plan to keep Ratliff, the pronouncements that “we’re not done yet” refer players like Jannero Pargo. You can’t even get a scrub like Travis Outlaw for less than 4 million a year. So, the Celtics will not be adding a significant talent to what they already have. They won’t be using the MLE either, because that would put them over the luxury tax threshhold as well.

Can Ratliff help on the court? Probably not. He’s a 35 year-old version of Dwayne Jones. As I said earlier, Glenn Davis and/or Leon Powe will likely be playing significant minutes for the 2007-2008 Boston Celtics. And that may not be such a bad thing.

I’m glad that Theo is feeling well, and I hope he can play again. However, anyone who plans on/expects/looks forward to Theo contributing to the Cs this year is delusional.

This is a human interest story, not a basketball story. The real basketball stories are where is the vet point guard and where is the desperately needed (and at least somewhat healthy) defensive, rebounding big man?

Jick- True, but don’t make a bad move just to make a move, right?! There has to be another team wanting to get rid of a good player to make it work, and if there isn’t then why make things even worse. That is what the Knicks did and now they are really in trouble…

Well said Brick.

No one is expecting Theo to revert back to his Philly prime. But he certainly appears to fit the team’s needs as a defensive oriented veteran who can keep Al from playing 20 minutes per night at the 5. if Theo is (relatively) healthy and is able to split the backup center minutes with Al, about 10-15 minutes per game, he will be a very valuable member of the squad.

“his contract is one of those "assets” that danny’s been chirping about – he was not brought here to play (they knew he was broken down when they dealt for him) – he was brought here to use that contract for a needed piece of this team’s puzzle."

And then Al Jefferson became a max player. See how quickly things change?

Why does everyone keep discussing Al as a 5?! He is a PF and should get all his minutes there. Perk should be our center and share time with whoever is this additional big man. Theo possibly, Kandi… Powe against a team with no real center also. Big Baby and Powe should see all of Big Al’s backup minutes (hopefully not much from Scal). The only way that I want Big Al playing any center is if we could get Kirilenko and we play small like Phoenix does with Stoudemire.

Ratliff could break down the 1st day of training camp. He’s old and injury prone. Jefferson’s best position is the 5.
AL has problems guarding 4s. Perk can be his backup at the 5. It would behoove the Cs to find a capable, hopefully taller guy to play the 4. Otherwise, we will see AL getting into foul trouble trying to defend 4s and Perk could have injury issues with extended minutes at the 5. Let Powe, Gomes or Davis battle it out for the 4 spot. If the Cs somehow morph into a fast break team (doubtful as Doc has shown little desire or expertise in coaching an uptempo style) the Cs could go with a smaller, quicker lineup. That would play to Rondo’s strengths but not, unfortunately to Allen’s and Pierce’s.

Brick,

In the ownerships defense, no one outside of the Knicks and Dallas seem to be willing to pay the luxury tax. Even Pheonix who sell out every game and go deep in the playoffs and could probably win a title if they were less cheap won’t do it. That stinks but it is not like it is unique to the Celtics. Wyc and company are just typical owners. Indeed, the point of the luxury tax was to keep salaries down and spread the talent and for better or worse it seems to be doing that.

I didn’t say they were wrong to try to avoid luxury tax. They are wrong in trying to mislead the fan base into thinking that “we’re not done yet,” when in fact they really are done.

If Ainge came on WEEI and said, “Look, we don’t think Theo can give us that much, but we plan to keep him so that we’ll have the money to extend Jefferson. It’s the only way to avoid the luxury tax given the huge extension we gave Pierce plus the acquisition of Ray Allen, who is owed 16, 17.4 and 18.8 million over the next 3 years,” —-then I would have no problem.

I doubt we’ll ever here such candid explanations of their financial plans in public.

The picture on the upper banner of the site… is that Big Baby, mimicing King James (blowing chalk dust)?

Brickowski said:
“If Ainge came on WEEI and said, "Look, we don’t think Theo can give us that much, but we plan to keep him so that we’ll have the money to extend Jefferson. It’s the only way to avoid the luxury tax given the huge extension we gave Pierce plus the acquisition of Ray Allen, who is owed 16, 17.4 and 18.8 million over the next 3 years,” —-then I would have no problem."

Hahahahahaha!!!! No problem? Hahahahahahaha!!!

The answer to your question, joeb, is Marcus Camby.

I’d like to know exactly—exactly—what Ratliff’s operation consisted of.

Who was the source who says Ratliff’s ability to play through pain is directly proportional to the ability of his team to do some damage in the playoffs?
I ain’t buying his lame attempts to sound “healthy.”
Moving on…

I find it amusing you can rubbish Ray Allen for his ankles and yet find a way to justify Marcus Camby because he can block shots..

Joeb

I don’t think that there are anymore options if the KG deal goes away for good. After Ratliff tears a toenail and is out for the year again, we are better off splitting time with Perkins and Al at Center. The PF position will be split between Al, Powe and Davis. Scal must go and Gomes must be able to play the 3 when Pierce is on the bench. The Ray Allen trade is not looking so good now that KG ain’t coming to town!

joeb said:

“As I said in my post, I don’t see how Camby works. You’re rolling the dice big time with his health, just like with Theo.”

Camby was the DPOY and the starting center on a playoff team, who averaged over three blocked shots per game. Ratliff’s season lasted what, 20 minutes?

Don’t even go there.

Wildblue said:

 Sorry but Brickowski is not “spot on”. It’s just that Brickowski feels that ownership is cheap and would rather have the insurance money. Ratliff – when he was healthy – was exactly what we needed. And still need badly snce I’m not a believer i Perk as a starting center. Ratliff is a major chip in a successful season if he can come back. If he can’t then C’s should not trade that slot but use it next year for Al’s big jump up.

“… when he was healthy…” “…if he can come back.”
The last time he was healthy was in Bushy’s first term. That “if” is the “if” too many people (Blazers included) have been sadly praying. Ratliff ain’t coming back from injury. Simple as that.
Brick may be blunt, but he is indeed spot-on. Ownership’s cheating the fans, yet again. As I’ve said before, my anger toward Danny/Doc has now been spread around a whole lot more.
We’re cheaping our way to mediocrity.

joeb,
Camby has had injuries over the years, but he has missed nowhere near as much time as Ratliff.

Over the last 4 years, Camby has played an average of 66 games while averaging about 11 points and 11 rebounds a game.

Ratliff? 38 games, about 4.5 point and 5 boards a game.

There’s really no comparison.

The Celtics got zero from Ratliff last year, and so most of the brilliant folks here project him as useless for the coming season. Not a one has pointed out details about his medical condition and recovery chances to support why he won’t have a good chance to contribute this year.

Theo is a smart experienced player, who, if healthy, is just what the team needs to fill the role as complement to Perk, providing help with defense and rebounding. He will only need to play 15 or so minutes per game to fill that role. Jefferson if needed can play the five easily to relieve Perk for another handful of minutes. Theo makes it clear he’ll be ready for training camp. The Celts will probably get to look at where he’s at physically before that, because Theo will probably be working out with the young guys who’ll be in Waltham well before camp. If he gives us 60 games in that role, it’s a win-win situation given his contract status.

It’s not as if Theo is 38 or 39 years old. Players have any uncanny ability to show their value when motivated by a contract year. Without medical information to the contrary (and despite all the “expert” medical opinions expressed above), there would seem to be at least a good chance that Theo will come through in a backup on court role and as another veteran presence to help develop the young frontcourt guys, as well. If he can’t then, the Celtics have their bet hedged by his trade and insurance value to another team during the season.

Why do I keep getting a message saying my post is too short?