Doc to Fans: Don't Get Carried Away
by Jeff Clark on Jul 23, 2007 1:15 AM EDT
in Boston Celtics News & Links
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PrintSome will see it as Doc Rivers keeping things in perspective. Others will say the coach is raining on another parade. The bottom line is that Rivers believes people might be going a bit overboard with their opinions on the present version of Al Jefferson.
No one in Celtics Nation wants to see Jefferson leave, and when his name was raised in trade talks for Kevin Garnett, the coach thought Big Al’s stock might have risen beyond its current actual value.
"I walk around Boston right now, and if I didn’t know any better, I would have thought Al had been on the All-Star team the last five years," Rivers said. "He’s got a chance to be a great All-Star player, but he ain’t yet. He’s still got a lot of room to improve. That’s where coaches are more realistic than the public sometimes."
According to Danny Ainge, however, the reality isn’t exactly shabby when you put it in place with others of his modest experience.
"What Al has done at his age (22) is as good as we could have ever hoped," Ainge said. "He’s continued to improve. He loves the game. He’s got a great attitude and character.
"He hasn’t done things at the All-Star level yet and proven that he can do all those things and help us win consistently. But there’s also never been a player at age 22 who has done what he’s done and hasn’t gotten better. Al has room to grow like every 22-year-old. Al will have room to grow until he’s 28. But he’s definitely trending to be a very good NBA player."
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As I said in a post last week, Rivers doesn’t like Big Al and the feeling is mutual. Rivers is doing whatever he can to run Big Al out of town. Maybe Rivers thinks KG is going to save his job. IMHO that’s another reason not to make the trade.
It sucks. Just one more reason why I won’t spend a dime on this team until Rivers is gone.
Don’t get me wrong, what DOC said is true, at this point he is maybe a little over-rated in the eyes of the Celtics fan, ( I mean we are saying no to KG and Yes to Big Al ). But isn’t that what they wanted out of us, during this whole youth movment all we heard was be Patient, be patient. Well we were patient, we are all sitting here waiting for one of are youngs to start to have All Star potential. Now one does, and you have the nerve to say the fans are going overboard. DOC is a loser. Never knew why they extended him, If Celtics knew they were getting Ray Allan they should have dropped him and went for a Def. minded coach.
Given that it took a boatload of injuries for Doc to start playing Al last year, this makes sense.
by Luke Middleton on Jul 23, 2007 8:04 AM EDT reply actions
The fans had to endure the second worst record in the NBA last season , now, we have to temper our excitement for a young star like A J ?
I’m afraid he is paving the way for trading A J for K G .
by DAS on Jul 23, 2007 8:18 AM EDT reply actions
Doc should take a look in the mirror before he speaks. He won a coach of the year award. Who would confuse him with being a great coach? Nobody! As far as his talent evaluation skills they are absent from the reportiore. 2 of our starters going into this year would have been bench players all last year if it were not for injuries. I think many fans are more astute than Doc when it comes to judging talent.
What Doc said is correct. I think everyone is excited about Al because they see a player who is on the cusp of being a year to year all star. But he hasn’t done that yet. Now he’s had some good games against good players and has lost. I don’t think Doc’s trying to run Al out of town, he just wants to prevent what happened before: us nominating Al as our best player when he’s really #3. Maybe what Doc has said (the truth) will motivate Al, maybe it will keep his next contract down — I don’t see what negative effect it will have. You should read the rest of that article. About KG wanting to stay in Minny, about Walton saying players will only come if the team has a marquee player — clearly Garnett is not on that list of marquee players.
Hang on fellas; you don’t say things like that unless you’re talking about a keeper…What good is it talkin’ sh*t about a player you plan on trading?
Unless of course you’re megalopolisianly stupid?…Doc???
(Nice word, hunh?)…Not really a word but you get the point…Wish we would (See Wyc on Telfair)
Sometimes I think that Danny is the only somewhat level headed guy not wearing a uniform for us and that’s scary…But, for what it’s worth, I feel that Doc is attempting to keep BigA motivated. There’s no popularity contest going on here. If there was, Doc would be tarred and feathered and tossed in the Charles long ago (and Al would have been traded for A I early in the year, ouch!) The Celtics also don’t want to go into contract negotiations with Al with him thinkin’ “I’m the cat’s meow!; can’t miss, I’m already there!”
by BoundingRounder on Jul 23, 2007 9:06 AM EDT reply actions
soap07 said:
Doc is absolutely correct, no matter what you may think of his coaching methods. There have been numerous posts on these very forums claiming that Al is as good as KG now or will in the future, which is ludicrous.
That might be true, but I tell you one thing. Big AL already goes to the line as frequent/if not more than KG(which is a big part of closing games) and he is only 22, plays for a loosing team and gets no respect from the refs…
I’m just saying…..
Brick, you hit the nail on the head. It’s the old lower the expectations game . Afterall, with three star players he would actually be expected to win…….it’s definitely a CYA deal !
by DAS on Jul 23, 2007 11:30 AM EDT reply actions
DAS – If he HAD 3 star players then that would be fair. Only the Celtics fans think he is a CURRENT all-star. (Myself unfortunately included in this mindset) I wouldn’t consider trading him for KG right now. Not because he is a better player, but rather that his upside can be as high as KG’s and KG coming in here won’t win us a championship.
What DOC said was right on the money. I also hope this isn’t setting us up for a KG trade… I don’t buy that Doc doesn’t like Big AL though. He just doesn’t want him to feel that he has arrived already and get content with his game. Just like any good coach would do…
Ok , maybe AJ isn’t a star yet, but he is obviously one of the top ten young players on the verge of being a star.
Doc needs to keep quiet and teach some defense and ball movement to his team.
by DAS on Jul 23, 2007 1:12 PM EDT reply actions
DAS – The first comment is right on the money. The second I think you are way off on the being quiet part. I am all for giving Big AL some motivation in the offseason to come back and prove everyone wrong. Doc knows him a lot better than the rest of us do and would know this would make him work harder. He doesn’t do that to all the players, so there must be something in him that needs pushing. If this does the same thing for him that it did last year for him then he’s right on with his comments. He does need to teach some defense to his team though I agree. Ball movement will be much better with Ray out there on the perimeter. Spacing will be so much better.
I don’t know if some of this is being done with the intent of trying to lower Al’s contract extension but I am getting concerned that we have not yet heard anything from Danny mentioning resigning AL as a priority this offseason. With deals for Deng, Gordon, and Okafor coming soon we should have an idea what the price-tag on Al is going to be.
Brick…….Thanks for the great input on Dopey Doc.
You are right he has harassed Al the first time he stepped on the court. I’ve said it over and over “he can’t coach young players”.
Remember how Gomes got to play after “Did Not Play – Coach’s Decision” after multiple times.
Thank God only one more year I hope he doesn’t screw up the young guys anymore than he has already.
The last time we heeped all star status on Big Al. he came back the next year unprepared remember. Thus Doc is right on two accounts 1. to make sure Al is well groundeded and prepared this time around. Secondly, to take some pressure off the kid so he can be clam as he prepares for the upcoming season. Doc has spent three years with the kids and they all respect him especially BIg Al. all the hate on Doc want change that. It is interstinh how some of us can twist things as you do. it makes me wonder about twisted Minds which can concoct some of the B s I have read about Doc on this site. Doc will get the last laugh as the 17th banner is hoisted as he holds his head high looking up from his position on the Floor.
by Freeease1 on Jul 23, 2007 2:51 PM EDT reply actions
BigT – Big AL sure has turned out pretty well for a guy with a coach who can’t coach young players. We won’t even trade KG for him. Gomes sure has turned out pretty well also. Rondo doesn’t look too bad either. West sure played well for a young guy before getting traded. What a rediculously un-thought out “sheep” type of a comment. Legitimate to question substitution patterns at times. Legitimate to question the stress on D or the so called “running game” we were supposed to have been instilling. Try to do a little thinking of your own instead of trying to get Brick to put you in his will.
I attribute Big Al’s improved play to Clifford Ray, not Doc Rivers. Rivers is not a good coach, period. He’s not a good coach with old players, with young players or players in-between.
And that’s why I’m going to have the last laugh, when the Celtics fire him. It’s just too bad they were too cheap to do it sooner.
Of course you do Brick, of course you do. If Ray wasn’t there then you would attribute his success to the janitor in the stands yelling out positive things to him as he was practicing… Back to the same old song and dance I see.
How is it that you will have the last laugh? All of your sheep on here just mimick everything you say, so with that logic THEY will actually have the last laugh.
I DO think that Brick! At least the part about taking your word for it. At least you keep dialogue flowing most of the time. Some of it I’d rather not read…But…At least there is Celtics conversation going on this time of year. It would be nice to see more of the good stuff oout of you though and less of the I hate Doc…
The worst thing that could happen coming into this season would be Al already thinking he’s an all-star, and not needing to work any harder. I have no problem with what Doc said.
by Cullain on Jul 23, 2007 5:09 PM EDT reply actions
“I walk around Boston right now, and if I didn’t know any better, I would have thought Al had been on the All-Star team the last five years,†Rivers said. “He’s got a chance to be a great All-Star player, but he ain’t yet. He’s still got a lot of room to improve. That’s where coaches are more realistic than the public sometimes.â€
he’s 100% right lol. there’s a lot of things you can knock doc for, but this quote ain’t one of them
by dr_awesome on Jul 23, 2007 5:38 PM EDT reply actions
I agree that Doc is not a great coach – X’s & O’s wise. But the only guy on that team who he had bad karma with was Telfair. That team hung together last year and there was no sniping at Doc. They lost together and hopefully they’ll win together. And, I think the players know better than Bloggers just how good/bad Doc is and there has been no bitching, not even from the guys who are gone (Except Marcus Banks. So you still think Doc was wrong about Marcus?)
it wasnt rashard lewis in any KG talks
and it wasnt Scalabrine in any Kg talks
it was big AL..it is what it is, he has that
much potential and talent to offset minny
losing KG in a trade.it isnt hyped worth its
actual worth since KG is aged and we would still
owe them more than just big Al,we were against the
trade straight up in the poll and we were absolutley
against it when we had t add a 1st and a 2nd and theos
exp. contract
So what indication is there that Al Jefferson thinks he’s an all-star or otherwise has a swelled head? Did Al say anything? Did his agent say anything? As far as I know, he’s been working out all Summer and keeping his mouth shut. So what was the point of Rivers preventing Jefferson from getting a swelled head, when there is no evidence that Al has one?
The person with the swelled head is Rivers. If he says “I was coach of the year” one more time I think I’m going to puke.
There was no need for Doc to verbalize his opinions on
AL to the media. If he has something to say, say it to
the players face to face, I’ve been watching the Cs on TV since the early 60s. The playoff games were on Channel 5 and Don Gillis called the games. Sometimes I agree with Brick, sometimes I don’t. But having been around the game for
about 46 or so years, I think I know good coaching when I see it. And sadly, when I don’t. Doc is not a good coach. Pure and simple. No defense, poor end game decisions, faulty talent evaluation and no accountability
for the stupid turnovers they commit.
by Greg37 on Jul 23, 2007 6:46 PM EDT reply actions
I think doc said that about Al because the people of Boston are simply smarter than he is. doc didn’t put Al in the starting lineup until Perk went down last year. He should really get no credit for his development because if it were up to him and everybody was healthy, Al would have probably come off the bench all of last year averaging 20 mpg. It is the same with Rondo. How foolish does dock look now looking back to the first half of last year when he was giving Rajon dnpcds???
Look, besides dock being a poor coach and a terrible talent evaluator, he simply isn’t a leader. He ISN’T the great motivator that some make him out to be either. He says the most un-Celtic like comments to the press and in his press conferences. I have often found myself asing – what other Celtics coach would EVER say such a thing about one of his own players?
Red knew what he was doing. All the coaches that came after Red who were from the “school of Red” knew what they were doing. They knew how to win and they knew what it took to win banners. Sadly we don’t have anyone that qualifies for that job anymore. Danny IS an ex-Celtic, so it is better than before, but I actualy heard him say in an interview once that the best thing that ever happended to him for his career was getting traded AWAY from the Celtics.
Danny is tied to dock for some reason, – he shouldn’t be. I think the only way to restore the Celtics tradition is with people who were a part of making it happen. That was Red’s formula.
dock is simply NOT a Celtic. He doesn’t think like a Celtic. He doesn’t act like a Celtic and last but not least – he doesn’t speak like a Celtic.
Am I the only one that thinks that he speaks like he is still working for ABC?
I want leadership! I want guts! I want a Celtics coach who will get the job done hell or high water! and if he can’t – he will step aside and NOT cry and complain about all the reasons why his team didn’t win. He will own up to HIS mistakes – he won’t always blame the players, especially the younger ones.
It IS time for dock to put up or shut up. “no more excuses” shoud be the team’s motto this year.
The people of Boston know talented young players when they see them – too bad dock doesn’t.
Greg 37 and Bossco—Doc criticizes Al to the media and Doc doesn’t let Al play. First of all another Celtic player has criticized Al to the media—his name is Al Jefferson. Doc knows Al’s nature. When Al gets going he thinks he’s an all star and that’s when Doc needs to bring him back to earth. And Al appreciates that because he admits it’s a problem. Also, and I don’t remember where I heard or saw it, but Al took off last year in Dec. after a game against the Nets when Doc benched Al and told him he was “playing soft”. Al got mad, which Doc liked. When Al went back in he didn’t play “soft” the rest of the year.
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