Does Navarro Fit the Need?
by Jeff Clark on Jul 26, 2007 2:52 PM EDT
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As the dog days of summer drag on there has been a palpable agitation amongst the die-hards for a move to be made. The initial confusion that followed the draft-night trade for Ray Allen has passed for the most part. Fans are waiting for the proverbial "other shoe" to drop that will push this team into true contender status. The anticipation of additional moves has been precipitated both by statements from management as well as the logical assessment of a roster that is still too light on experience.
Belief in rebuilding through the draft has instilled many with a faith in the youth of this team. Rajon Rondo is still widely considered to be the future of this team at the point. Successful 2nd round selections of the past have already elicited high expectations for Glen Davis as well. In short, there isn’t a shortage of optimism when it comes to the potential future of this team.
Yet, even the most vehement "futurists" view this season as a proving ground for the Celtics and its current shot-callers. It’s readily agreed upon that the team needs additional veteran support to augment the talented, but inexperienced rotation of this team.
For instance, most of the constituents of this board would be staunchly against a move that limited Rondo’s ability to grow as the future point guard of this team. But few who follow this team closely would argue that they have complete faith in the 2nd year point guard’s ability to lead this team deep into the playoffs. Almost no one would disagree that a veteran presence would greatly increase the probability for success this season by providing depth and experience to a position thin in both areas.
Read more after the jump.
Team Needs
Everyone who follows the organization knows that the offseason priority has been to acquire veteran help at the point and in the frontcourt. The team has put an emphasis on the backcourt as the number one priority, or at least has intimated that this is the principle area of focus. Beyond Rondo the team currently only has disappointing 4th year man Sebastian Telfair and newly minted rookie Gabe Pruitt as alternative options.
For a team that has just pushed up the time frame for competing in the east, this position falls short in two key areas:
Team objectives: Trading for Ray Allen signifies a move into the "win now" category. Ainge and company have clearly stated their desire to build a 4-6 year window of competitiveness, but a 32 year old Allen and a 30 year old Pierce still need to hit the ground running this season with more reliable veteran options to support their cause.
Team Strategy: Supporting Pierce and Allen goes beyond simply adding a veteran presence of two. From a strategic standpoint, this Celtics squad has a definitive need for top-notch perimeter shooting to complement the inside game of Al Jefferson as well. While the two All Star wings fit the bill, the Celtics are lacking an effective perimeter threat at the Point.
Ainge stated numerous times before the Allen trade that he didn’t want to acquire veterans that only had a couple of years of competitive basketball left in them. It is plausible that Ray Allen is the type of player who can be effective deep into his 30’s, but any additional moves should be for players south of that figure.
A couple of vets in their late 20’s would give more support to the YOUNGER members of this team down the road and help to ease the transition away from Pierce and Allen as they themselves become more complementary in terms of their impact on the game.
Their should be a "middle ground" group of players that bridge the gap between Jefferson(22), Rondo(21), and Pierce(30), Allen(32). These mid 20’s types should also have the type of big-game experience and performance under pressure success that will help them to shine once the regular season ends and the playoffs begin. There is no substitute for big-game experience, which is something that NONE of the young Celtics posses enough of.
Perkins, Jefferson, and Allen are the only young rotation players who have been in the playoffs and their roles were not significant enough to qualify them as "battle-tested" by any stretch. One only needs to look within the Atlantic division for proof of the value that playoff experience brings when it comes to performance.
Toronto Set the Tone
The Raptors ran away with the division last season by relying on the veteran savvy of three players who were short on NBA experience, but long on big-game acumen. Anthony Parker, Jorge Garbajosa, and Jose Calderon were the driving force behind Toronto’s success.
None of these player’s was consider a "star" acquisition and all three cost the team substantially less than their production value would command on the open market if they had been NBA free agents. Yet, it was these three players, along with 1st year NBAer Andrea Bargnani, who solidified the Raptors rotation and pushed them into the playoffs.
Chris Bosh is the one true "star" on this team, but his first playoff appearance was a learning experience at best and a washout at worst. Bosh not only was unable to carry his team during their first round match up with New Jersey, he was carried by them for the most part. As the the series wore on, it was Parker and Calderon who became the driving force behind Toronto’s attack. Both of these players combined to make less than the mid-level exception.
Their ability to perform in the clutch and play intelligent, error free basketball made them more valuable than almost every other rotation player. In contrast, Rasho Nesterovic and Morris Peterson could have taken the series off for all the impact they had and they combine to almost triple the salary of the other two players.
Garbajosa would have no doubt added to the mix as well as he was a major force during the regular season and a former MVP overseas, as was Parker and Calderon. Truly, it was the past resumes of these players that helped them transcend the somewhat derogatory "role player" status to become "central support" players for their NBA club.
These players had been relied upon in a high-level professional environment to be the "go-to" guy, to be what Chris Bosh is supposed to be for Toronto. They have faced pressure and overcome time and again, so it is second nature for them to be in environments that require composure and execution.
The Celtics would be wise to take a page out of Toronto’s playbook. Rumor has it that the team has looked in this direction, (Papaloukas, Jasikavicious) but both times the team has been reluctant to pull the trigger. But, if the NBA success of the Spanish National Team members is any indication, perhaps the third time’s the charm.
In the case of Garbajosa and Calderon, each has played with another player who comes with a more impressive international resume…Juan Carlos Navarro…
Navarro’s Accomplishments
The 27 year old Navarro’s resume reads like a record book. It is filled with superlatives that speak to his abilities as both a leader and clutch performer. He’s been called the best guard in Europe, and for good reason: (Stats)
- Named to 05/06 and 06/07 All Euroleague 1st team
- Spanish National Team: 2006 Gold Medalist; 2005 Bronze; 2003 Silver; 2001 Bronze
- Spanish National Champion with FC Barcelona: 98/99, 00/01, 02/03, 03/04
- King’s Cup Champion: 2001, 2003, 2007
- Under 18 European Champion: 1998 and 1999(MVP)
Navarro has steadily improved every year of his career and has won championships at every level he’s played at while serving as a central figure for his team’s success. His statistics have been superb in a league that is better known for its emphasis on team play over individual achievement and his numbers in big-game situations have helped to build his reputation.
Navarro is more of a combo guard than a pure point and he’s played the off-guard for Barcelona as well as for the Spanish national team. But he is a very good ball-handler who can use either hand and doesn’t favor one side of the court. He is comfortable making plays with the ball in his hands as well as playing off-ball and coming off of picks for catch-and-shoot opportunities. His perimeter shooting, first step, and creativity off the dribble allow him to be a scoring threat from anywhere on the court. Navarro knows how to make intelligent basketball plays, both the spectacular and the subtle. (Read more)
Navarro is a great fit for the Celtics in a number of ways:
- His perimeter shooting complements Jefferson’s inside game
- His experience and offensive savvy are a great foil to Rondo’s skill set
- His ability to play with or without the ball will help him to mesh with Pierce and Allen
- His age (27) means that he’ll still be in his prime when Perk/Jefferson/Gomes/TA/Rondo reach theirs
Pierce and Allen are going to do a lot of ball handling and playmaking. Regardless of whom the point guard on the floor is both of these players are going to be making decisions on many of the team’s possessions. Add Jefferson into that equation as another primary ball-handler in the team’s half-court sets and you’ve got a very definitive need from the other two players on the court with them- shooting and slashing ability.
No matter how adept Rondo is at creating shots off the dribble, he’s still not going to be the team’s primary ball-handler this season. The point guard’s role on this team is going to be to bring the ball up court and create plays off of the three main offensive options. Ball movement and floor spacing are going to be the order of the day for the Celtics offense, not Nash-like ball dominance from the point.
Rondo’s slashing and ability to pass off the dribble should keep him effective, but Navarro’s game is tailor made for a system that emphasizes equal distribution of touches and playmaking from multiple positions. Navarro is at his best when attacking the hoop. His excellent first step and creativity in the lane should make him a terror for recovering defenders trying to decide how to set up defensively. As a kick-out option, Navarro is an excellent 3-point shooter who has a quick release. His decision making with the ball is equally as fast, so he can be relied on to snap the ball around the perimeter or attack the basket without hesitation.
Above all else, Navarro is a competitor who knows his role and has the versatility to come off the bench and provide support at both guard positions. Beyond Pierce and Allen there is a lot of uncertainty at the guard position due to Tony Allen’s recovery and Rondo’s lack of experience and shooting prowess. Having a dead-eye shooter with championship experience who is in his prime and willing to sacrifice for the greater good of the team seems like a no-brainer move for this team.
Navarro has the character and demeanor that is the epitome of Celtic Pride. He understands what it means to play for a team with a rich tradition and takes pride in fulfilling his obligations to the team he plays for. He also has a tremendous sense of self and an awareness of what he needs to do in order to be successful.
There are always aspects of your game that an athlete can improve on. I feel that I have improved a lot on my defense and my ability to find the open man and run the offense as a true point guard, but as a player, the moment you stop developing your game is the moment you hang up your sneakers.
So what’s the Asking Price?
The big issue really doesn’t seem to be whether or not Navarro would be a good fit for the Celtics and their needs. The real question has been the asking price of Washington and whether or not the exchange would be worth it for this franchise.
The Wizards had initially been insisting on another team taking back one of their undesired long-term contracts in order to secure the rights to Navarro. Both Brandan Haywood and Etan Thomas have been the two names most frequently mentioned in trade talks. The Celtics do need veteran help in the frontcourt, but Ainge has been holding out for something more lucrative than the services of Washington’s unspectacular bigs.
But the August 3rd ultimatum that’s been handed down by FC Barcelona has dramatically shifted the scales in favor of the prospective buying team. The Wizards are in a position where they can either take what’s offered to them for Navarro’s services or lose him as an asset all together.
Similar to the situation the Spurs faced with Luis Scola, it seems that Navarro could now be had for much less. A late first round pick, a couple of second round selections, or even a sign-and-trade for Telfair and Ray’s expiring deals may be all it takes to acquire a player who is sure to outperform the theoretical production that those draft slots may represent in the future. No one seems to be offering much more for his services, and if past Euroleague production is any indication, it’s unbelievable that Navarro has not received more.
In terms of his contract demands, Navarro is said to be searching for a deal in the 3.5 million dollar range for 3 years. This partial mid-level deal is similar to What Parker and Garbajosa received and it could very well pay out the same dividend for the purchasing team.
Best of all for Celtics fans, a deal for Navarro wouldn’t cost the club the assets it needs to pursue the "home run" trade that apparently has been the focus of management this offseason. Theo Ratliff’s contract would still be in place, as would the team’s best youthful assets. So while it does typically make sense to leave the mid-level open for subtle tinkering, the level of player now available with the need he fills seems worth the cost.
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Start with Bassy, Ray, and a pick for Navarro and Thomas, and see what happens from there. We can’t give up a big for him certainly, and if we are to believe this article, we shouldn’t have to. Washington will definitely try to dump one of their centers in the deal, which is great because we need a backup center.
by scotthp49 on Jul 26, 2007 3:18 PM EDT reply actions
I don’t know Navarro so I’ll take your word for his pedigree but you also make it sound like the Celtics made a mistake in not getting Jasicavicis (sp?). Wasn’t he on two NBA teams last year and neither played him?
As for A. Daniels and Etan Thomas…Etan Thomas = Danny Fortson. Been, there, done that…no help. No thanks. I’d rather save Ratliff money for Big Al.
As
this guy looks like jorge posada. i dont want him here.
by wheres rondo? on Jul 26, 2007 3:20 PM EDT reply actions
Do we honestly need another tweener guard with Pruitt and Allen Ray (might not be here) and Telfair? Do we really need someone who can’t play D? (The writer of this profile would have definitely mentioned it if he could)
Brick – Etan Thomas is absolutely awful! He’s Pervis Ellison re-visited! (BTW I am a huge Syracuse fan so there is nothing personal there)
Just a crazy theory here, but if they’re really going to deal him for a late first or a couple of seconds I think there’s a much better chance they send him out West than to deal him for nearly the same return from someone within thier own confrence.
by Scotty on Jul 26, 2007 3:39 PM EDT reply actions
Last night Pau Gasol stated in an interview for Cadena Ser in Spain that Memphis should make it a priority to get Navarro in a Grizz uniform if they hoped to keep him (Gasol) from seeking a move to another franchise.
by deavazquez on Jul 26, 2007 3:40 PM EDT reply actions
Actually, in his resume you forget he won the Junior World Championship in Lisbon (1999) beating the USA in the finals. Of course, he was the MVP. In that Spanish team there was a substitute named Pau Gasol (Calderón was injured in that tournament)but the MVP was the guy “wheres rondo” call “donkey”.
He is not a PG so do not think in him as the solution for our PG problems, but he is a great player and he can succeed in the NBA if he find a coach who like playing offensive basketball.
He is not going to be a good defensive player in the NBA (actually he is just an average deffensive player in Europe)but he can do some other beautiful things. If you are really interested, Eurobasket starts in some weeks; you can see Navarro, Papaloukas, Diamantidis, Gasol, Milicic, Kirilenko… for the same price (unfortunately croatian´ Nicola Vujcic will not play).
Ah! moreover, nor Navarro, nor his wife use to carry weapons under their seats.
i posted a trade idea in this vein a number of weeks ago here: Scal, Telfair, Ray and a 2nd round pick for Etan Thmas and Navarro. It works on RealGM, trade ID# 4136587
Really, it makes sense for both teams. We get guys at position of need in the primes of thei careers as role guys. Yes, we take on Thomas’ contract, but we send back Scals, offering them some financial relief and a back-up at a position of need, while we get a very servicable back-up 4/5 for a pretty fair price, when you factor in the ruduction of Scals money.
they also get a pick, a guy they can immediately dump without paying (Ray), and a young PG prospect they can take a chance on.
if danny needs to offer another 2nd rounder, then do it. but this really would sure up the training camp roster.
One more thing. I read on ESPN something about Barcelona threathening Navarro with one new contract. That is not true. Navarro´s contract end in 2010 and Barca´s GM didnt want him to leave. But he reached an agreement with the president of the team (some kind of owner)on paying the buy out clause at one million euro (1,4 million dolars)per year he plays in the NBA.
Season in Europe starts on September so, Barcelona want to define his roster as soon as possible, so they gave an ultimatum to Navarro. He has to find a NBA team soon or he will remain in Barcelona one more season. There is no chance Washington loose him forever, as was told on ESPN. If Navarro doesnt go this year to the States he will go next season. Anyway, I think he will end up in Miami and we will face him in the play offs
Brickowski said:
Well “La Bomba” is a good offensive player. But can he defend at the NBA level?
I would rather package Ratliff and the MN pick to get Antonio Daniels and Etan Thomas.
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I want perimeter shooting and championship experience from my BACKUP PG/SG…Rajon Rondo plays all the defense this team will need out of the PG position…the skill that’s missing is perimeter shooting and veteran leadership…defense is the least of our concerns at the Point position…
BillfromBoston said:
I want perimeter shooting and championship experience from my BACKUP PG/SG.
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I can shoot the ball from the outside and have championship experience in my rec league. Why not me then?
You’re giving Navarro the tag of “championship experience”?! Please… Be serious. Maybe we can pick up some of the neighborhood kids that won the state 3-A championship as well. I hear they have range also…
kozlodoev said:
The last Euro with a foot-long resume that came to the US was Jasikievicus. He did zip with Indy and even less with GS. I’d rather we traded for a more established, known commodity. I don’t think Navarro will be a difference maker with the Cs.
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This comment is a classic case of not knowing anything about the situation in Indiana that led to his trade…Saras actually had quite a few good games DESPITE being played at the 2 and being used as a spot shooter when he’s been a playmaking PG during his successful run in Europe..
If you’re going to sign a player you should use him for what he’s good at, not try and re-invent the wheel…Saras is a terrible defender, any decent scout knew this…you get him for his offense and you plan around his defensive deficiencies or you don’t take him..
Navarro is better defensively, but no spectacular…he is better than Dickau though, that’s for sure…Navarro is also being brought in for his offense and leadership as a complement to Rajon Rondo…on any given night, when the matchups are right, either would be the lead guard…that’s the purpose of versatility..
Antonio Daniels? please….
Hi people!
First of all, i wanna say that Navarro isn’t a PG, he never plays the point.
But, hey people, he’s a scoring machine, belive me. And at NBA level he will be a scoring machine too. He can be perfect for the 2nd unit, because he needs a lot of touches.
He’s not a very good defender but in the last 2 years he has improved a lot, because he has been playing for a very defensive minded coach.
So, if you can get Navarro for some 2nd round picks or a first round pick, or telfair, do it.
Then you can trade to put navarro&gasol together again (Ratliff G.Green something else – pick,telfair…-)
Wow. That’s eye-popping. Ooops. Sorry. That was Allen Ray. ;)
by The Real Large James on Jul 26, 2007 5:18 PM EDT reply actions
I´m from spain and I´ve seen navarro playing all his career since Spain was world champion under 19 (Navarro,Gasol,R.Lopez,Felipe Reyes, etc..) in Portugal in 1999. La Bomba have never played at PG, he´s a SG, a terrific scorer. He has the most famous shoot of Europa, la bomba, a running shoot with one hand in vaseline, imposible to block for any defender. I think that he could be a great complement for the C´s, has a lot of experience and the most important thing for me is a WINNER, and this team needs these kind of players.
by SpanishCeltic on Jul 26, 2007 5:20 PM EDT reply actions
Questions we should be asking ourselves :
Did Navarro really need a 2000 word essay ?
and why did i read it ?
Does Danny even know where Europe is ?
by havlicekstoletheball on Jul 26, 2007 5:26 PM EDT reply actions
havlicekstoletheball said:
Questions we should be asking ourselves :
Did Navarro really need a 2000 word essay ?
and why did i read it ?
Does Danny even know where Europe is ?
Fantastic….Danny can find China but not Europe? Classically funny.
SG is NOT what we need folks…Point Guard Danny, think Point Guard…
Thank you Cargo . Nice to see you can appreciate good humor :)
Looking over our roster over the last 4/5 years i know the answer to my own question.
by havlicekstoletheball on Jul 26, 2007 5:46 PM EDT reply actions
You’re giving Navarro the tag of “championship experience”?! Please… Be serious. (EJPLAYA)
The last time I checked, Spain had won the last World Championship, while Team U.S.A. had been defeated by Greece. Underestimating what is not american is what led U.S.A. Basketball and (to some extent) the Celtics to the drain.
I never saw Navarro play, however at 27 and with his resume, he can certainly get minutes with the Celts. Look at our backcourt on the bench, Allen is uncertain, Bassy needs devine intervention, and a rookie(Pruitt). If he can be had for so little, then why not? There doesn’t seem to be much else out there. And GG is still miles way from a rotation guy.
by tapper on Jul 26, 2007 6:27 PM EDT reply actions
“The anticipation of additional moves has been precipitated both by statements from management as well as the logical assessment of a roster that is still too light on experience.”
Eric, do yourself a favor and read some Hemingway or Mamet or even a daily newspaper. Economy, my man, that’s the key to good writing.
by George Meyer on Jul 26, 2007 6:45 PM EDT reply actions
First, does anyone know if the C’s have signed Pruitt and Davis? I know they signed Wallace because he was a free agent while the C’s have the rights to Pruitt and Davis. As to Navarro, if I understand it, the Wizards have his rights, but he is not signed. If the C’s see Navarro as someone who could even possibly help this team I think they should go after him. I would not take on Etan or Heywood because of their contracts and abilities. To me the Perk/Al combo is better than either of them and I believe they are both being paid more than Perk. To have one of them as a backup to Perk (probably) doesn’t make sense. If Washington wants to get something for Navarro I don’t think they are in the driver’s seat. I don’t think Allen Ray will be back and if Pruitt and Davis aren’t signed yet I can see Pruitt as part of the deal with some future 2nd rounders. I’d like us to keep Davis. I don’t think we are going to be able to get a quality Big so we should probably concentrate on the pg position.
Despite the wordiness, I thoroughly enjoyed the article. I’ve been trying to get people interested in Navarro for the past couple of weeks.
Some points
1.
Winning the Global Championship is a wee little bit different than the Rec League. Eric is correct to put his championship performances high on his list of accomplishments. Remember people these are no longer the days of the dream team, Spain has a better team than the United States.
2.
As Eric said, we do need perimeter scoring from the point, we don’t need a pass first style point guard. Navarro doesn’t have a history playing the point, but he does handle the ball a lot and when it matters most. As far as I know, all of the teams in the NBA are pursuing Navarro with the goal of converting him to point guard. That shouldn’t be too difficult given his passing acumen.
3.
Don’t judge players based on others to come from their country/region or ethinicity.
Don’t think that Yi will be Yao.
That Darko can be Dirk.
OR that Navarro will be Jasekavicius.
…And for the love of God, Adam Morrison is not Larry bird.
4.
People have been going crazy on the site about Barea, and Sergio. I’ve even seen people put out plan to get Jasekavicius.
Now that we have an opportunity to grab the best guard in Europe for peanuts, everyone wants to look the other way?
I don’t get it.
by FrieCod on Jul 26, 2007 7:09 PM EDT reply actions
I don’t know Navarro and have been reading some of the posts which seem to indicate he’s not a pg. Neither Danny nor DJ were pg’s when they played and they did OK. If Navarro is as good in other aspects of the game (except defense) I don’t see why he couldn’t spell Rondo. It seems that he can pass and take it to the basket. I don’t think we should get caught up in thinking that Rondo’s backup needs to be a classic pg, especially in the half court. I think we need a smart, tough player and Navarro seems to fit this bill.
Diamantidis isn’t available, and Navarro isn’t the European Ray Allen…as far as his fit, what do you know about his game Brick?
Navarro can handle the ball well enough to bring it upcourt-certainly better than Delonte West could. Navarro knows how to play the game and has a knack for clutch play and playmaking…
Brick, instead of being the insufferable deflator that you always are, how about you break down a list of the available options who can man the point and list the cost of acquiring each…my money tells me that Navarro is the best bang for the buck on the market…
Unless this team is going to trade for Mike Bibby, Navarro is the best…
BillfromBoston, you’ve had several posters from Europe tell you that Navarro isn’t a point guard, and I’m telling you that he’s not a point guard. If you want to believe he’s a point guard, I can’t stop you, any more than I can stop you from believing that the moon made out of green cheese.
Delonte West is twice the pg (and twice the defender) that Navarro is. Navarro is a fine shooter and an exciting player. But he’s not the “veteran point guard” that everyone seems to think the Celtics need.
Let me now, BillfromBoston, break down the available options, as if most folks here were not capable of doing so on their own.
The best available option is Antonio Daniels. Daniels is a servicable point and can defend. He’s rumored to be available. He’s 6-4 so he can also play sg and defend sgs. To get him you would have to take Etan Thomas. If I could get Daniels and Thomas for Ratliff and Gomes I would do it. But Ainge won’t, because those two players don’t have enough marketing clout. He’ll keep Ratliff and dangle the hope of a KG deal until the deadline passes. Then they will just eat Ratliff’s deal to save money.
The rest:
Luther Head. Not a true point, but my second choice after Daniels. Good defender, 3 point shooter. Has to be available now that Houston has signed Stevie franchise.
Earl Watson. Servicable. Can’t shoot, though, and his deal sucks
Luke Ridnour. Can’t defend a chair.
Rafer Alston. Can’t shoot. Erratic.
Kevin Ollie played with Ray Allen in college. Servicable.
Damon Stoudamire. Too expensive, poor defender.
Jasikevicius. Poor defender, slow.
Brevin Knight. Too short, can’t shoot. I can’t comment on the alleged locker room issues, but I don’t like him as a player.
Barea is a nice little player. Maybe you could get him for Telfair and the MN first rounder, but I doubt it.
I won’t even get into White Chocolate or Andre Miller. Both overrated. Or stiffs like Jeff McInnis, who combines being the worst defender in the league with being a total locker room cancer. Hey, how about Dejuan Wagner? He can’t play the point and he’s the most selfish player under the sun, but hey, he was a lottery pick, just like Luke Jackson. Maybe we can waste the preseason evaluating his ability to play the point.
The rest is crap until you look at Europe. If you can’t get Diamantidis or Papaloukas, you can consider US transplants like Will Solomon or Aaron Miles. And I’m still waiting for someone to give Schoonie Penn his shot in the NBA.
Failing all of these options, after Rondo the best pg prospect on the current roster is probably Glenn Davis.
Gee, I thought the point guard dribbled up slowly after getting the “play” from Doc and then passed it to Paul Pierce. Again. Ad nauseum. I just know Danny can find
someone to handle that chore. As listed previously the list
is fairly long.
by Greg37 on Jul 26, 2007 8:44 PM EDT reply actions
There is no way that Memphis will offer Lowry for Navarro. Are you kidding?
In fact Memphis just signed Casey Jacobsen to fill the same role that Narvrro would fill. Maybe Gasol wants Memphis to acquire his buddy Navarro, but unless Memphis can dump Daom Stoudamire in the process, the Grizz probably have no interest.
Navarro may not be the “answer” at PG but if we could get him for two second rounders it would be a steal. We’ve kept Allan Ray (a SG) who can’t seem to find shot consistency and fails miserably at the point, Navarro would be a blessing in comparison.
We have Telfair who has to be worse than Navarro because Telfair underperforms at the point and has an inconsistent shot.
Navarro doesn’t have to be a “star” in order to be a valuable piece on the roster. It all comes down to cost…we’ve drafted Pruit with the HOPE that he can be a combo guard but based on SL he needs a couple of years to make that transition and the outcome of that trial period is in more DOUBT than Navarro’s current skill set.
Adding navarro to the roster should be viewed as increasing the talent level and not necessarily a “home-run” at PG.
by moskqq on Jul 26, 2007 9:20 PM EDT reply actions
I have no problem adding Navarro to replace Alan Ray, but then the pg issue remains unresolved. It would be just another one of Ainge’s moves to mindlessly stockpile talent without considering the fact that he has about 9 players at the sg and sf positions, two of whom will play 40 minutes a night while the rest just sit there and rot.
Brick; The old Celtic’s were adept at adding “situational” players to the roster and not every acquisition was brought in to be a star. Navarro can handle the ball well, can find his shot almost at will, has excellent range to include 3 point proficiency…even if he were only used in closing minutes of games in a primarily offensive capacity…a game winning shot etc., he’d have value beyond that of “talent-on-the-bench”.
He wouldn’t SOLVE our problem at PG but in comparison to Telfair, Ray or Pruit would complement the current Celtic’s philosophy of win now…not later. He is far more “game ready” than those previously mentioned.
His acquisition doesn’t necessarily mean we stop looking for a true PG but it would represent a roster upgrade. Every move doesn’t necessarily have to be a major move.
Who knows but that Navarro’s performance will exceed the pessimistic projections and prove to be a key acquisition. We already know that Pruit isn’t ready, that the Allan Ray experiment didn’t work nor that of Telfair as well. Why stand pat with losers and not upgrade the roster…especially if the cost isn’t prohibitive?
by moskqq on Jul 26, 2007 9:40 PM EDT reply actions
Well, it’s a question of what cost you consider “prohibitive.” Picks are assets. I’d rather use them to fill holes at pg, in the front court, and generally on defense than to add another player who probably can’t defend and who isn’t good enough to take minutes away from Tony Allen.
First thing first. I thought they were trying to win now, before Pierce gets too old, not to continue to stockpile talent for that mythical trade to vault the Celtics into contention.
What you say is true but a proven STAR in a foreign league offers enough promise as a useful NBA player than the 3 players currently on our roster.. The simple fact that he, like Ray Allen, can perhaps supply INSTANT OFFENSE, that he has good passing skills and could function in small bursts at PG because he has excellent complementary scorers to dish to (and doesn’t have to carry the offensive load himself)…that he is an unknown NBA talent but comes from a winning tradition…helps brighten our future possibilities.
There have been other foreign stars that came to the NBA with “jaded” pessimism yet proved their worth. To stand pat as we currently seem to be doing and do nothing because we can’t land the PG and big that we have our sights set on seems counter-productive when other roster improvements can be made. Those improvements need not be made in lieu of our primary objectives but in concert with them.
by moskqq on Jul 26, 2007 10:02 PM EDT reply actions
Danny collected “trade pieces” with the hope of using them to adjust roster balance as well as improve our talent base. He also hoped to get a better mixture of youth and veteran experience.
It would be naive to refuse to upgrade a position of strengh (if the cost was reasonable) because we were looking to bolster other positions. The better the talent at any position, the easier it becomes to navigate trades.
by moskqq on Jul 26, 2007 10:15 PM EDT reply actions
Delonte West wasn’t a point guard coming into the league either Brick. Navarro is probably twice the player West is and seems to be a much better ball handler and passer.(He’s bidirectional like that)
I do like your idea of getting Dimitri Diamantidis, but he apparently isn’t looking to join the NBA.
by FrieCod on Jul 26, 2007 10:49 PM EDT reply actions
Ainge doesn’t navigate trades. Whenever he attempts one, the good ship Celtic runs aground. His record in trades is dismal. He only likes overpaid players with injury problems (LaFrentz, Szczerbiak), knuckleheads (Davis) or flat out losers (Jiri Welsh, Sebastian Telfair). Or sometiomes he just signs the knuckleheads or losers as free agents (Blount, Scalabrine, Dickau).
Navarro isn’t the answer to the Celtics problems, and if he were, Ainge probably wouldn’t be interested in him.
Players like Diamantidis or Papadopoulis address clear needs. Needless to say Ainge isn’t intereste in those players. He just wants a zillion shooting guards so that Rivers can “go small” and throw even more games into the toilet.
It’ds time to start building a roster, not a random collection of mismatched players playing for a clueless coach.
Between you and me, I think the Celtics problems go a lot deeper than the PG position.
According to sources 8-9 teams have expressed interest in Navarro including Miami and Memphis. I find it hard to believe that the Celtics didn’t at least phone in already.
by FrieCod on Jul 26, 2007 10:56 PM EDT reply actions
I don’t believe the “sources.” This is just Navarro’s agent trying to xreate a bidding war. So far, the most someone has offered for Navarro is a second round pick. There are teams that could use him, like Miami. But in Boston, he’s a waste of a roster spot. Do you think he will take minutes away from Ray Allen? From Tony Allen?
No I think he’d play the point, much like West did. But depending on Tony’s condition he could see minutes at SG. At least he could take minutes from Gerald, Pruitt, and Ray. We have to prepare to win now. Our bench is an absolute mess with almost no true positional players and 0 shooters outside of Green and Scal.
Miami obviously isn’t looking for a SG either and they are pursuing Navarro. As Eric laid out he could play the point in a Miami or Boston offense. Furthermore, our offense is geared away from having 1 setup man. We’ll see Pierce and Allen handling the ball a lot. For this reason I don’t think Rondo is going to be very effective offensively.
by FrieCod on Jul 26, 2007 11:29 PM EDT reply actions
Why do some fans here have the impression that the Celtics are stocked at the 2. Sure, Navarro can have all of Tony Allen’s minutes. Tony Allen might not be ready to play the first month of the season. Tony Allen might take a year to recover. (Think back…) Even if he does return 100% can’t he play at the 3? Would you rather give those minutes to Scalabrine?
Riding Ray Allen 40 mpg is a recipe for disaster (i.e., playoff burn-out or, worse, re-injury.) He’s already facing the, maybe, inevitable 32 year-old SG drop-off. What would be wrong with saving our stars’ legs (Allen & Pierce) if we can manage?
by The Walker Wiggle on Jul 26, 2007 11:42 PM EDT reply actions
Why on earth is anyone still talking about Etan Thomas? At least Pervis Ellison had a few good years before he got injured. Thomas flat out sucks—always has, always will. Relatively talentless and completely unmotivated. I don’t think he’s ever outplayed anyone. He sucks. Let’s stop talking about him now.
kozlodoev said:
The last Euro with a foot-long resume that came to the US was Jasikievicus. He did zip with Indy and even less with GS. I’d rather we traded for a more established, known commodity. I don’t think Navarro will be a difference maker with the Cs.
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This comment is a classic case of not knowing anything about the situation in Indiana that led to his trade…Saras actually had quite a few good games DESPITE being played at the 2 and being used as a spot shooter when he’s been a playmaking PG during his successful run in Europe..
If you’re going to sign a player you should use him for what he’s good at, not try and re-invent the wheel…Saras is a terrible defender, any decent scout knew this…you get him for his offense and you plan around his defensive deficiencies or you don’t take him..
Navarro is better defensively, but no spectacular…he is better than Dickau though, that’s for sure…Navarro is also being brought in for his offense and leadership as a complement to Rajon Rondo…on any given night, when the matchups are right, either would be the lead guard…that’s the purpose of versatility..
Antonio Daniels? please….
This reminds me of the Marcus Banks story. Poor Marcus, such a great player, so misused by his coaches. Well, if Jasikevicius was so great, how come he couldn’t establish himself at the PG position in Indiana? It’s not like they had excessive depth there.
Plus, the thing about good players is they can contribute. Do you think Al Jefferson is best used at center, or that Larry Huhghes is a PG? Seriously. I think that getting 27-29 year old players with European pedigree but no NBA experience is a terrible idea.
As for Navarro, I don’t even care about him defensively. Offensively, he’s not going to work in the NBA.
in west we had an undersized 2guard that played below average defense at point. why would navarro be any different.
by bucknersrevenge on Jul 27, 2007 2:06 AM EDT reply actions
EJPLAYA
I can shoot the ball from the outside and have championship experience in my rec league. Why not me then?
You’re giving Navarro the tag of “championship experience”?! Please… Be serious. Maybe we can pick up some of the neighborhood kids that won the state 3-A championship as well. I hear they have range also…
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There are, at least 6 teams in Spain that would have won the NCAA last season. Probably, the Florida Gators wouldnt have reached the Euroleague Top 16 last season so we are not talking about neighbourhood experience.
Of course Navarro needs to prove he can play in the NBA, but the difference between Navarro and you is that he would beat you by 100-0 in that ridiculous Street Basketball.
Good luck in your next rec tournament, I hope you will be the MVP.
Brick
In fact Memphis just signed Casey Jacobsen to fill the same role that Narvrro would fill.
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Actually, Jacobsen was a substitute in Spain while Navarro was one of the top 5 players in Europe.
Additionally, Brick I know you are very interested in international players, please just watch Papaloukas in the next EuroCup. Diamantidis is a very good player, but Papaloukas is simply the best player outside the NBA. I am sure you are going to like him.
kozlodoev
I think that getting 27-29 year old players with European pedigree but no NBA experience is a terrible idea.
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Petrovic, Sabonis, Divac, Kukoc, Calderón, Garbajosa…
They all were terrible in the NBA.
havlicekstoletheball
Does Danny even know where Europe is ?
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I ’m not sure if Danny knows it, but for sure Charles Barkley does not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCYu2YcdaJQ
Re Kozlodoev; So you don’t think that Navarro would be a useful Celtic acquisition? Does that also mean that you’re entirely satisfied with our current PG, SG players?
To do NOTHING because you “suspect” that Navarro might not help seems naive, especially since our present PG, SG positional players aren’t the answer either. While we wiggle-free of committment to signing foreign players the Toronto’s of the NBA quietly continue to improve while we regress. Yup! You too have the right idea!
One “minor” signing doesn’t necessarily preclude others, especially if we cut ourselves free of worn-out baggage.
by moskqq on Jul 27, 2007 4:56 AM EDT reply actions
@Galiza Ceive:
Petrovic, Sabonis, Divac, Kukoc, Calderón, Garbajosa…
They all were terrible in the NBA.
Sabonis was the only one who was older than Navarro when he came to the NBA. See a pattern there?
@moskqq
This is not poker. Based on what I know about his skills, I don’t think Navarro will help us more than, say, Antonio Daniels. For the record, making a move for the sake of making a move is just as bad.
I’ve never seen this guy so I don’t know if he fits our needs or not but I think it’s a moot point since miami is after him. I also think everyone is sleeping on telfair and that he could be the backup pg. He will certainly get a long look in training camp if for no other reason than to build his trade value back up. Telfair couldn’t possibly be any worse than he was last year- could he?? Also let’s not forget that TA spent some time at the point last year so that’s an option as well. If they do go after a vet there are a few teams like portland that have a glut of guards. maybe seattle would ridnour?
Galiza Cieve – exactly my point. I was being sarcastic. There are also about 9 players typically on an NCAA championship team that can’t make the NBA. Just because he has won something in an inferior league does not make him successful necessarily in the NBA. That was the only point being made.
None of us truly have any idea whether or not he would pan out here. That is a bigger gamble than picking up someone who has a track record. We really can’t afford to make a big mistake at this point. As much as I think Scal is a great team player and good all-around guy (and can play a little) do we really want another one of those contracts?!
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