JB Looks At The Trade

This whole “30 something max contract player hobbled by injuries” is becoming very annoying. Paul turns 30 in October. People are talking like we have a washed up player. Guys in their 30s win titles.

Look at the Spurs- outside of Tony Parker you have Duncan, Ginobli, Finley, Oberto, Bowen, Horry and Jacque Vaughn 29 and older- all people in the main rotation. Are they old? Maybe but they have what we want…

Allen is fine. His surgery was only to remove bone spurs, and he has had more than enough time to recover.

Just complete garbage.

Ahmen tb727. Totally agree. I suppose everyone would be more happy with a bunch of Gerald Greens on our roster. LOL

Yeah, I’d have to agree with you there, tb727. The problem with the age thing is that the reasoning somehow transformed from “uh oh, Pierce is going to get old and perhaps won’t be very productive soon” into “uh oh, Paul Pierce is now old and unproductive.” I’m not sure what happened in between, other than wild speculation that, so far, has trumped reality.

Paul Pierce is NOT old and washed up. Ray Allen, who was having his best season before surgery, is NOT old and washed up. They may be, someday, but they’re not now. So stop whining about age, everyone. The Spurs (and the 2006-07 Celtics, mind you, who struggled mightily without their captain) are a perfect example of why youth is overrated.

“There are several aspects to the premise of the article, in addition to age/injuries: style of play, an unbalanced roster and a general feeling that Pierce and Allen are not going to be enough to get us to a championship.”

Right, but I think we can all agree that more moves are going to be made to round out this team before the season tips off. Judge the trade however you want, but at such an early juncture (free agency just began three days ago), it would be foolish to believe that this is the exact group that will start the 07-08 campaign.

And now that the decision has been made to win now, I don’t see how trading Pierce is anything more than a sideways move. We don’t need to go out and get a Garnett to be serious contenders here—there’s a huge contract (Ratliff) and more young players (Gerald Green, et al) who can get us closer to what we need to be real competitors.

I’ve always been as down on Ainge as the next guy, but it’s obvious that he’s going to make more moves, so it would be smart to back off from the ledge until we have a clearer picture of what’s going on.

You know what sucks more than negativity? This “love what Ainge has done or stop being a fan” attitude.

Those of us who’ve been fans our whole lives have every right to criticize what we see as bad moves.

Sorry if we can’t brainwash ourselves into believing a trade for a 32-y.o. shooter with a huge contract, who essentially duplicates the best player on the team in boh good and bad ways, and who is coming off double ankle surgery is the best outcome of 4 years of wrangling and promises.

I guess that is pretty much what my skepticism revolves around. Whether ownership will go into the luxury tax to balance the roster/bring in the missing pieces of sufficient quality to make us contenders.

If they won’t spend the money for a player brought in with Ratliff’s expiring contract, than it’s: a minor tweak,trade Pierce, or trade Jefferson? I say trade Paul….

JB, I completely agree there. I’m totally skeptical of ownership, as well as Ainge, and always have been—which is why I’m totally against a KG trade, especially now, because it’s obvious that they’d be bringing in Big Ticket just to sell…well…you know. Tickets.

All I’m saying, is I differ in the fact that I’m willing to let the offseason play out, and if nothing helpful happens, then I’ll start figuring out how this team will dig its own grave. If we get to November and nothing of substance happens, or the Celtics pull some stupid moves and trade Ratliff’s contract for a stiff, or what have you, then I’ll find myself agreeing with a lot of your points.

But right now, as we stand in July, I’m not going to try and assume I know who else they’re going to add to the team. It’s just too much of an incomplete picture at this point to assume too much.

Jeff, you are starting to flip flop more than Kobe!

who ar u calling carrer downside players?!!!!
Pierce and Allen (if healthy) would of have their best statisticly speaking season
Trade Pierce-[edited – don’t swear again]

I’d float the idea out there if I was
Danny.

If we can get something good back for
Fatboy Pierce, why not ?

I’m all for it.

makaveli,
Put down the bottle and hand the car keys to anyone.

Happy 4th JB

Dumbest idea anyone has had so far!

In case you haven’t noticed over the last few months, JB hates Pierce and always wanted to trade him.

Master Po said:

I am working up the nerve to take a hit and just go with the flow of that “Green Haze” while listening to a Miracle Johan’s latest song being played backwards at slow speed.

That sounds like evil CIA stuff !!

I like it :D

JS33 – Fatboy Pierce?! He was in great shape prior to his injury. Taking time out to heal and not being able to put yourself though the paces will do that to you. He will come back this next year in top form just like he always has. Especially now that he has something to look forward to.

Makaveli – Nice knowing you. There’s a suspension waiting to happen. Check that… With a comment like that on this type of board it wasn’t nice knowing you. Don’t let the door hit you in the a** on the way out.

PO – You don’t have to be smoking something to be optimistic about the season. We are a better team now than we were last year. That is a fact that no one can dispute. How much better is the question that no one really knows…

Cousin IT – Kind of funny that you are whining about duplicating our “best” player. If it was a point guard where only one can really play on the floor at the same time then fine. As a wing player that seems to be a pretty smart thing to do! Maybe you’d be happier if they went out and duplicated our worst?! How about the advantage of being able to rest Pierce without our offense come to a grinding halt?! If he and PP are healthy all season this will prove to be a brilliant move.

Bankshot – You took the words right out of my mouth…There’s got to be better stuff to print on the Celtics then this trash. Horrible.

Happy 4th!!!

Yeah, JB, let’s hold on to Paul. He was in the best shape of anyone on the team in training camp last year, so I think he has his partying under control.

But I share your concerns about Gomes. I think he is a 3 more than a 4, and his minutes will be limited in 07-08. And wjhen Tony Allen is healthy he definitely will need to see playing time at the 2. But Ryan is a restricted FA — and we have Bird rights — so I suspect Danny will match any offer.

If we don’t get a usable rotation big and point guard we are going nowhere this season.
Trading for Ray solved none of the problems we have on this team. All it accomplished was loading the cap space with wing players.
Trading PP, yes I can live with it.

Ainge hasn’t made the best of trades, granted. But the only trade that matters is one that brings in a championship level star. We’ve never been in position to trade for one before, and Danny has gotten us to the point where we are in position to do so. Garnett is that type of player, but it seems to have fallen through. The only other way to get one is through the draft – tried that one, too. Didn’t work out. I’m not exactly sure what else people expect Danny to do. Massage here, tweak there, “improve” here, “upgrade” there – it’s all meaningless without THE missing piece. So, at this point it’s just about fielding an entertaining team that wins more than it loses for a while. Let’s just accept that it will be a while before we can make a run at a championship player and just enjoy our mediocre-to-good team. It’ll sure be alot more fun than the last several years.

anything is possible but these guys are not broken down..Pierce sat to tank and Allen had elective surgery for spurs as he hit for 26 a nite…older? expensive? OK but at least 3 top quality yrs left and one of them bound to have 5 …nobody is untouchable for sure…if PP goes my guess is to Dallas in multi-team deal with KG coming here..

by crazed fans who have somehow processed the kool-aid and Lucky Charms into a mixture of green crack rocks they are now freebasing in Lucky’s pipe.

That would be me. High expectations that this roster is going to shock a lot of people and leave a lot of “angry fans” sitting with egg on their face, esp the media types who keep declaring Ray Allen washed out and done. If we make no moves for the rest of the summer (other than to lock up Al and Ryan) we’re a great looking team.

Ainge isn’t done with trades yet so this whole thing is pointless….Next

pointless??? LOL..I just told you what the next trade is…that’s priceless

I was refering to the original piece, not your post Motown.

All I want to know is if PP had a bum elbow or something or it was just a deceitful move to justify his sitting down for 17 games. If PP never had helth problems, then it was very unprofessional for the organization to make it look as if the injuries were real. That would really say a lot about the professionalism od the Celtics, of which we are proud to consider are a notch about evry other organization. If the Injuries were real and PP was seriously considering surgery to correct the problem, than I have to conclude that he made a miraculous recovery cause I have not heard anything at all about his elbow, arm or whatever, since the season ended. The lack of news seems to convey the message that he is 100% fine. If that is the case, “then all is well” which is what Hitler said when he was told that the Atlantic defenses would stop any attemted invasion.

i see people are still posting about getting KG in Boston green..
 Boston Sucks, Kg hates you.. and you didnt want to trade AL. now you have Ray Ray and PP.. and Boston will still Suck..
 
 ohh yea.. KG hates Boston.. Boston Sucks

total negative-spin nonsense. looking forward to the summer league, starting Friday.

Nice article, JB. I agree that Pierce and Ray Ray duplicate one another’s games to a great extent. Who will get the call in crunch time? I’d prefer Allen, because he’ll make a smart play. Not only that, I don’t trust Pierce to deal with Allen in a way designed to maximize wins. I just don’t think Pierce gets it when it comes to what being a true professional is all about. The sour looks, the tatooed back, the bandaged face – echh!

crocker90 said:

“Who will get the call in crunch time?” – Isn’t that the point?! Don’t you think the opposing coach is going to wonder that one as well?! You knew who was getting the ball in crunch time last year and that is why Pierce got triple teamed and turned the ball over a bunch trying to split 3 defenders. Just try and guess this time and triple team Pierce… Ray will light you up then. That’s why we have more than one star so we have to guess! With Big AL now they have three to try and double/triple team and the numbers just don’t add up.

And I maintain my point is the Allen trade sucks unless Ainge makes two more key moves: translating Ratliff’s expiring contract into a trade for a vet (say, a backup vet pg or a backup big or a big 3) and spending the MLE on another vet (backup pg might be the best-case scenario).
THEN we have a nice balance of vets and kids. Only then. We’re wafer thin at the point, center and small forward.

“negative spin?”

So, any critical assessment of Ainge is “spin?”

I really do hope the “love Ainge or go away” crowd is right. I hope that spending the #5 and West pays off in a championship. I hope having two defensively challenged wings who need 25 shots a piece every night and have both had major surgery in the past year (at least one of who presumably missed two dozen games last year due to the recurrence of the original problem AFTER surgery) produces a championship even though there are no proven veterans around them at the point or the pivot. Or that Ainge will make a trade that addresses the point and pivot deficiencies.

I really hope I have egg on my face for saying: I doubt either of those things will happen.

I’m not saying that because I want to put a “negative spin” on anything. I’m saying it because I can’t help feeling otherwise. I try and try. I try to imagine best case scenarios. I try to picture other trades happening. I try to picture Perkins becoming consistent this year and actually having an impact on the outcome of games. I try to imagine Gerald Green becoming a real player instead of a guy who looks at his best in YouTube videos. I imagine Tony playing a full season.

The thing is, I was imagining all those same things last summer and had myself convinced they would come true. And when they all went to crap last season, I (like a lot of fans) took consolation in the fact that we would have a good pick in a great draft. Either use it to pick a gem or trade it for a good big man to help Al Jeff out on D and help Pierce out on offense, draw some attention down low, free up our glut of 2s for open shots.

But then Ainge used it on Ray Allen. Sorry, it wasn’t and isn’t a move that I believe in.

Having said that, I can understand why people are tired of hearing me and other poeple who didn’t like the trade talk about it so much. So, I’ll make that the last time I talk about it, until or unless it all goes wrong, in which case I will say I told you so, or it all goes great, in which case I will say how idiotically wrong I was.

I honestly look forward to making that apology.

"
I really do hope the “love Ainge or go away” crowd is right. I hope that spending the #5 and West pays off in a championship. I hope having two defensively challenged wings who need 25 shots a piece every night and have both had major surgery in the past year (at least one of who presumably missed two dozen games last year due to the recurrence of the original problem AFTER surgery) produces a championship even though there are no proven veterans around them at the point or the pivot. Or that Ainge will make a trade that addresses the point and pivot deficiencies."

What major surgery did Allen have? He simply had bone spurs removed last I checked and could have played through it if his team was in playoff contention.

I don’t think Paul had “major” surgery either. Just scope work on joints. Scope and clean is not major. Ray Allen does not need 25 shots a night and is far from “defensively challenged.” I love Delonte, but he was never going to be anything close to Ray Allen, and it’s easy to make the prediction that Green will never approach Allen’s career either. This team needed an experienced veteran who could relieve the scoring load from Pierce (who’s openly begged for that, so that should tell you something about the ability of those two to coexist), be a mentor and role model for the young kids, and keep the offensive deficit from going deeper in the red when Pierce is not in the game: Ray Allen accomplishes all of those things.

I’m with you JB. But it will never happen while Grousbeck is alive.

trade paul and scal for ak-47, brewer, giricek and a future first.

sign and trade for gerald wallace using ratliff, telfair, and gomes as bait.

sign brevin knight to a modest 2-year deal.

starters: rondo, ray, gw, ak, al. bench: knight, pruitt, tony, brewer, gerald, giricek, big baby, powe, perk. great blend of o and d. one more future pick and lots more depth and roster flexibility going forward.

I raise my eye brows when listening to Ray Allen interviews and he makes reference to PP and him having not talked since the trade went down.
Wouldn’t you think PP would have called and welcomed him?

If we can get Odom without giving up Pierce, Allen, or Jefferson, I would be for it. But as he’s shown in LA, this guy cannot be your second best player. He simply disappears for multiple games at a time. I love Lamar’s game, but he’s frustrating to watch. Every lakers game I see, I just keep thinking to myself ‘wow, this guy should be one of the best 10 players in the league’ but he’s not. He literally can do almost anything on the basketball court. He’s a true point forward, he has post moves, he has a decent J, he can defend, he’ll pull down 20 rbs some games, he’ll dish out 15 asts, yet he just doesn’t show up all the time. something that scares me. Pierce for Odom and Bynum I would consider, because I think pairing Jeff and Bynum could make us one of the best teams in the east for a long time down the road, or Theo GG for Odom in some trade I could be sold on too. Having Odom be your fouth option could work. He could avg something like 14 pts, 9 rbs, 7 asts a game playing with Rondo, Allen, Pierce, and Al.

The burden of proof is on the Celtics front office and the people who buy their spin on the Allen trade and the team’s prospects this season, NOT on the critics.

Danny Ainge is a three month Antoine Walker rental from four losing seasons in four years, and that’s after blowing up a playoff team. So far his track record on trading for vets with huge contracts (LaFrentz, Wally, Ratliff) AND trading lottery picks (Bassy) has been a disaster.

Sorry guys, but I’m a Who fan “So I’ll get on my knees and pray/We won’t get fooled again.”