No More Moves Planned

Ah pants … I don’t feel satisfied with that at all. Very disappointing. A lot more of this seasons hopes suddenly went onto Davis’ and Pruitt’s shoulders

Don`t worry guys. And don`t believe what Danny says. At this point there probably isnË™t a PG outthere who Ainge wants but I am sure when the right guy is available he will go after him…

We are not done. Pierce has said that he wants a vet PG numerous times and I am confident Ainge thinks the same.

Just be paitent and go after a PG that will really help us. D.Stoudemire if he is boght out is one option. No need to sign someone like Payton at this point if down the road a better player becomes available…No need to hurry, we have enough times to evaluate what we have and what still needs to be added.

He’s done an excellent job…..
That’s why he’s there and we are here. He knows what he’s doing. If he’s wrong he will make the correction. For now the team IMHO do just fine.

I have total confidence that we will be able to get the ball over half court, and into the hands of our primary play makers; Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett. If Rondo proved anything besides his ability to steal the ball last season, it was his sick NBA level handles. For those that did not watch:

Rondo AST/TO – 2.11/1

Most were on dropped passes, not oposition steals. As for the second and third options:

E. House AST/TO – 2.125/1
R. Allen AST/TO – 1.39/1
T. Allen AST/TO – 1.21/1

Nothing to be worried about.

Michael Anthony, spot on man. It’s really all about getting the best players on the court. Once Tony Allen is healthy he is one of the best five players on the team and Posey is right there as well. That’s why Ray is going to have to play some PG for this team to be as good as it can be. I don’t see why anyone has a problem with:

Ray/Tony/Paul/Posey/KG or Ray/Tony/Paul/KG/Perk

And I’m pretty fed up with the Rajon Rondo hatewagon… He will be just fine this season and if you need a veteran at the end of games you play Ray Allen. If Larry Hughes can play PG than Ray Allen definitely can as well.

I think that the Celtics organization in general is drinking the Tony Allen Kool-Aid. And really they have good reason to, but he DEFINITELY DID NOT play well as a point guard. For very, very short minutes I’m pretty okay with him playing there because he can defend the position and the C’s need to find as much PT for TA and Posey off the bench.

we do need the vet pg, and not payton. clearly with what we have left to buy with and with what’s out there, now is not the time. so we see what we have and wait. we will be good this year but a lot more complete next year.

Ugh. Not how I remember Allen, either.
I agree, Jeff, on the vet. But I do consider that a high-class problem right now, and it doesn’t immediately worry me that we haven’t solved it in the pre-season.

Why are fans so impatient? During the rebuilding era, we were cool just sitting and waiting for one of our kids to make the leap. Now, we transition into a winning mode (a 3-4 year era) and everyone is freaking out cuz we don’t have a vet point guard. Crikey! You can’t go from the Grizzlies to the Spurs in one offseason. Impossible! Make this year the ‘let learn to play together and win’ year. Any deep playoff wins are just cherries on top. Next offseason (if Rondo doesn’t make the leap), we can sign our vet point guard and our choice of any free agents (who wouldn’t want to play with the Big 3?) and we will push for the title for the next 2-3 years. Patience, my friends.

Take a deep breath, Celtic Nation, and accept that Rondo is our present and future point guard.

Rondo is going to do the job, make no mistake about it. By the time the regular season’s done and we’re heading into the playoffs, Rondo will be a much better PG than any journey-man veteran that might be available.

John Stockton is not walking through that door. Bob Cousy is not walking through that door. Give the kid plenty of playing time, teach him, encourage him, let him work out the kinks during the regular season and come play off time, he’ll be more than an adequate – if not an excellent PG for this team’s run.

People forget how much better role players become when surrounded with good players. This will be the case with Rondo, as well.

Jeff i think enough is enough. Where do we have the bench space nor money to get another player?? c’mon you know we don’t

sometimes a guy like gabe pruitt is a good thing and alot better option than getting a guy like anthony johnson, gary payton etc. Unless you get a good enough vet, it could really hurt your team getting a guy like anthony johnson who just doesn’t have it anymore and will get beat up by most pg in the league

I have no idea why you have so little faith in Rondo. He is truly a wicked pg who played beyond his years for most part of last year. The guy still has lot to learn but he is an amazing athtlete, top 3 pg defenders in the league, loves to pass first ,just works his butt off and most importantly take a look at his pass/turnoever ratio(its just that great). He can play 40 mins in my books with all of these attributes

Like danny indicated, posey was the final big piece we needed(like an upgraded ryan gomes versatile player) and we are good to go.

While a veteran back up point guard would be great, the reality is that the offense is going to be initiated by Pierce, Ray Allen and/or Garnett. There is no point (pardon the pun) in getting a veteran, ball dominating point guard. By all reports, House can get the ball over half court, and can hit a jump shot. For Doc’s offense, that is what the point guard needs to do.

I agree with Triboy and Birdman…

The available list of veteran point guards stink…
Brevin Knight and Troy Hudson aren’t that pleasing to watch…

It doesn’t make sense to cut a decent non-drafted pickup in Brandon Wallace, just to sign a mediocre at best point guard who are extremely injury prone. Probably Ainge is just covering up to say the options don’t look appealing and is waiting for some buyouts for PGs who want to win a championship…

no team is “set or good to go” in August…that’s why it’s the off season with more time to make moves ….once camp/season starts a whole new set of offers/players become available…and the fact we’ll take on salary means we are players…

I suspect that Dan Dickau will be bought out in NY and be available before training camp. Don’t forget he was hurt, when he tried to play for us.

i’m telling you guys, rondo is going to have a solid year this year. He will be alot more smarter this year than last, hit alot more open jumpers, be consistantly shooting at the 70’s at the ft shooting, can log on heavy minutes with his shape and once again one of the best pass/turnover ration in the league

come playoffs he will be closer to a vet than we will think

I agree with other bloggers re Tony Allen as PG. C’Mon Danny, many of us watched those games. Tony was a great athlete/poor decision maker. But I do agree with Danny that on balance we have PG covered. To sign one we need to cut somebody and I wouldn’t throw any more youth under the bus. I’ve been away a few weeks and I can’t believe that the C’s landed Posey. He’s a player and his motivation for coming here is credited 100% to Danny’s moves.

Probably not qualifies every statement made subsequent to its use: Don’t panic, have you seen what’s presently out there? We’ll do what is necessary when the iron once again heats up…

Between now and the end of the year, someone who’s not currently on the roster, will be playing point guard minutes.

Hope is not a plan. Sign a veteran point guard.

Re Roy Hobbs…I’m pleased that you made the comment about Tony Allen’s stint at PG. Ainge must have drunk too much Kool Aid or he thinks we’re all stupid with such an irresponsible remark…That Tony played “fantastic” at the point…. Truth be told, his performance there ranks with that of the 3 worst PG’s in the league, and even that might be an exaggeration. That’s no knock on Tony in so much as it recognizes that he was playing out of his natural position. A gifted passer he is NOT!

The concern about a “real” PG back-up was not to denigrate Rondo’s ability there but rather to recognize that the offense will stall without Rondo at the point. Neither House, Tony Allen nor even Ray Allen are gifted creators at the point (not their offense but that of teammates).

To say that the big three can operate just as well without a good PG is tantamount to saying that if Jason Kidd played the point for the Celtics the team’s offense wouldn’t be much better. That we haven’t had a great PG for some time helps fans forget the true worth of the PG position. It’s demeaning to say that “just bringing the ball up the court” is enough!

I’m not concerned at all about Rondo. I am concerned about this idea of “back-up PG by committee” (Tony Allen, Ray Allen, House, Pruitt). Just pick one guy to play the role for 10 – 12 minutes per game. Unlike the last 2 – 3 years, we need everyone to clearly understand their role, play that role without fear of demotion, and play with the same guys as often as possible to develop chemistry. This is my biggest fear with Doc: how he sets the back-up rotations. Please – no more crazy rotations (small ball, etc.)and guys playing out of position. We have enough talent now to dictate how teams must play us – not vice versa.

DJ to Bird; You made an excellent point as regards the back-up PGs. I guess Ainge has also forgotten the enhanced contributions of effective PG play. Or, Ainge is trying to hide the reality of our deficiency at the PG position.

No team has everything that they would like to have at every position. While we have the high priced stars, it seems unfair that so much responsibility is falling on the shoulders of our “low-priced” PG, Rajon Rondo.

“The sky is falling! The sky is falling!”
                           
                         - Chicken Little

I don’t think it’s demeaning to say a PG on the Celtics has to “just bring the ball up the court.” Look at this roster, look at what kind of offense they’re going to play. We’ve got a power forward who averages over 20 points and 4.5 assists for his career. You want the ball in his hands as much as possible. Both Ray Allen and Paul Pierce average 3.9 assists for their career. The 3 all know how to pass. The Celtics need a PG who plays D and hustles, who has a pass-first mentality. That’s Rondo’s game. I’m sure Rondo will still drive and dish, setting up teammates. But The 3 know how to pass, so there will be excellent ball movement on this squad. A back-up PG who just brings the ball up and waits to shoot 3’s (House) will be just fine. Rumor is Damon Stoudamire wants to be bought out; he’d be a perfect back-up PG for this team. We’ve got two months until the season starts; we shouldn’t panic about “used tires on the expensive sports car.”

As for Tony Allen; what do you guys want Ainge to say? The guy’s rehabbing. You want Ainge to throw him under the bus and say at a press conference he sucks at PG? No, Ainge is going to say everything possible to boost Tony’s morale. Yeah, I do agree Tony at PG is not something I want to see again, but you can’t expect Ainge to be anything but positive.

This should not come as any big surprise. Ray Allen effectively played a lot of backup PG minutes in Seattle, even with Earl Watson on the team. Once Ridenour subbed out, Allen often took over the ballhandling duties. Sure, Watson defended the other team’s PG, but it was Allen who usually got the team into its offense. Similarly with the Celtics, when Rondo goes out and House comes in, Ray Allen will likely take over the ballhandling duties while House guards the other team’s PG. No big whup. If a quality PG becomes available during the season, I’m sure he’ll be picked up, but there’s no reason to be in a big hurry. Ray Allen is capable.

I agree that Tony was not “fantastic” at the point, but when he started getting healthier, he certainly did a better job than West (which is not really saying much). I actually don’t mind Tony playing some point, provided he’s fully healthy. As I said, when he was healthy by more than 80%, he did a decent job, it was when he was still recovering that he looked awful.

Rondo with House, Allen and Allen backing up should be fine.

While quoting scoring statistics may be satisfying to some bloggers who “misuse” statistics to attempt to prove their point, it should also be noted that all of our All Stars were associated with LOSING programs. Nowhere was mentioned shooting proficiency and therein lies the rub.

A good PG will set the table so that our “stars” have an EASIER time scoring. He’ll get them more uncontested shots and more layups. That contributuion should improve shooting proficiency enough to substantially IMPROVE offensive production. Defenses can no longer concentrate on defending ONE position. The rest will rely on a good offensive system and a rational rotation schedule.

We have also added defensive pieces to complement the puzzle. First and foremost is a defensive-minded coach (Tom Thibodeau) to mobilize the pieces for maximum effectiveness. Tom has a long reputation for being skilled as a defensive innovator.

— once again one of the best pass/turnover ration in the league

He was tied for 44th in the league in A/TO ratio, not exactly one of the league leaders. In fact among PG’s he was tied for 35th. It shocks me how people consistently try to conform a number to what they want it to mean.

Backcourt of Danny Ainge and Dennis Johnson. Neither a pg.
Both winners of championships. I think we can manage with what we now have. If a super backup appears or if we can get someone better than Rondo, so be it. Just to sign a backup pg because he bears that label makes no sense to me.

Moskqq, I’m not sure I follow what your saying… You just seem to be talking in cliches.. a “PG will set the table”, “get them more uncontested shots”, etc. Then you bring up the fact that each of these players have been unable to carry teams solely on their backs.

Here is the reality. The C’s have a capable young point guard who will most definitely be able to do the things offensively that will make it easier for The 3 stars to score.. Most likely he will do that for about 35 minutes a night, giver or take. That leaves 13 minutes to be split between Ray Allen and Eddie House and Tony Allen. So what you and others are saying is that Paul, Ray, and Kevin will somehow be incapable of scoring efficiently and consistently in that 13 minute time span? I find it difficult to grasp how three ELITE offensive players are suddenly incapable of directing an offense successfully when they have all done so with some success when they played on their respective teams alone. Also for those 13 minutes would you rather have Ray Allen and Tony Allen in the backcourt or Insert crappy veteran PG here and Ray Allen?

Ainge is right on they money. If we are trusting Rondo to run this offense, why do we need a point guard so bad? Eddie House will be an awesome compliment at the point to Rondo. If Rondo’s shot is not falling, and teams are playing off him, being able to bring in Eddie House to replace him for brief stints is the perfect blend. Jeff, stop whining, you do sound like Bob.

Maybe the plan is to see how all of the possible players fit in at point guard during the pre-season if it works then they do nothing. They will continue to work on changing players as we have seen every year so something might happen in the next few months and another PG or Big comes in you never know with chemistry and injury. Also player cuts come in October and Free Agents that did not get signed will be available I think there are still changes to come but not until October.

moskqq said:
  Re Roy Hobbs…I’m pleased that you made the comment about Tony Allen’s stint at PG. Ainge must have drunk too much Kool Aid or he thinks we’re all stupid with such an irresponsible remark…That Tony played “fantastic” at the point…. Truth be told, his performance there ranks with that of the 3 worst PG’s in the league, and even that might be an exaggeration. That’s no knock on Tony in so much as it recognizes that he was playing out of his natural position. A gifted passer he is NOT!

I totally agree, but Danny can spin this as he pleases as he knows most Bostonians didn’t pay a lick of attention to the C last season. He can say Tony was on route to being an All-Star if he wants. There aren’t enough of us who paid attention to call him out anywhere but on here.
As for this weird notion that Jeff is “whining”???? OK, I guess I am too because I agree 100% with Jeff’s assessment of the pack-up PG spot. I am not confident in what we have there and we are 1 injury away from starting someone at PG who has never played more than spot minutes in the position.

I think the need for a vet PG is somewhat offset by the reality of what lineup the Cs will be playing a lot during the season and, especially, in the playoffs. Allen/Pierce/Posey/KG/Pollard. Even if Rondo plays well, those are going to be the guys on the court together a lot. That team won’t be able to run worth a darn, but they’ll fine in the halfcourt both offensively and on D.

Mike

We can only get a backup vet pg thru free agency. Choices are limited or not much of an upgrade. EHouse will be more that adequate. I am not worried at all.

—I think the need for a vet PG is somewhat offset by the reality of what lineup the Cs will be playing a lot during the season and, especially, in the playoffs. Allen/Pierce/Posey/KG/Pollard.

This team gets eaten alive by a lot of playoff teams. Ray can’t handle the point, especially if you’re going to rely on Paul being your secondary ball-handler. Teams will press this lineup and they just won’t be able to run the offense effectively. Not to mention, Pollard should never play period, he was done about 4 years ago.

—EHouse will be more that adequate.

He hasn’t been adequate for a playoff contending team yet, not sure why he will be this year.

I HOPE the PG doesn’t have to just bring the ball over half court. To me, that indicates ugly basketball. I LIKE watching a PG make plays and run an offense. It’s enjoyable.

House is a better player than any of the available veteran backups with NBA experience. People forget that House is a pretty good defender.

So what’s the problem? Should the Celtics be like the Red Sox, who brought in over-the-hill crapola like Gagne just so they could say they shored up their bullpen?

The exception would be one of the veteran European free agent pgs. To add to my list of usual suspects, Pablo Prigioni has been outstanding in the FIBA Americas tournament. The question is what it would take to buy out his deal with Tau Ceramica.

How far into luxury tax land are we?

I’d rather him not make some kind of Dickau-like signing now and not have the flexibility to pick up a vet who can really help if/when he becomes available. Also, this way one or more of our 4 backup pgs will get the time to really establish themselves in that role—whether or not Danny makes a later pickup.

I guess I am 100% in the camp of let’s play some games and see what we have before we make any more moves (barring a surprise no brainer that may come along). If Rondo gets hurt or doesn’t really develop, yeah, that is a problem. Garnett getting hurt would be a much bigger problem though. I think Danny is spot on, wait and see how this group plays. adjustments will be made along the way but don’t over-think it right now, you will be in a better position to make a better decision later.

Its a whole easier being PG on a team with 3 superstars then it is on a team with PP and ……NOBODY. Play some defense, bring the ball up, and keep moving. Rondo, Tony Allen, and Eddie House will all be fine playing with 3 guys who are all good passers

Jeff,

Your analogy at the end was incorrect.

“Why do I feel like the team just invested in an expensive sports car but chose to buy a used tire for the front right wheel?”

What the team has invested in a used SPARE tire for the front right wheel. Nice to have four great spares, but most like of little concern.

If Ainge’s plan is to wait and see on a backup point, then I agree. We shouldn’t rush to get a backup that’s not going to be better than what we have today. I just hope Danny had a brainfart with the Tony Allen as a fantastic PG comment.

The thing I liked about Rondo is his confidence and leadership on the court. After a whistle he always seemed to pull one or two players over and he seemed to do all the talking. It will be interesting to see how this works with the Trio.

Oh, this is going to be the longest month and a half ever. I wish i could fast forward.

I’ve missed watching 3 games in the last two years. It must’ve been those 3 games when Tony played great at the point. It was a train wreck all the times I saw him try to play the one.

Be patient. There’s nobody on the market right now we can afford that’s worth taking away minutes from House, T Allen, and Rondo (if it’s an older vet, we know how Doc works).

Danny just completely remade the team, let’s watch some games and let these players gel. Make a move based on the evidence on the court instead of jumping to conclusions about what looks good on paper when we have little room for error.

PG’s will be made available, injuries may rear their head again, players can break out/regress.. a lot can happen. I would NOT want to see a Dickau, 40 year old Payton, or Knight on the roster just to get another body in the mix and screw around with Rondo’s development.

   My only concern is that should RR get hurt bad and miss most of the season……….Other than that, for some weird reason, I think DAinge is better able to adjudge PG talent then most (if not all) of us here. And most PG’s are kind of ho hum anyway. Now if Magic were to come out of retirement and play for us ! Or a young John Stockton. Or Jason Kidd would definitely be nice
pickup. Actually the last good PG we had was Dennis Johnson and he really was a two guard.

Re Alchemist; So sorry that you didn’t understand my comments but you sure did a good job of paraphrasing them in your own commentary.

I like Rondo but I’d feel much more secure (about a run at #17) is we had aa good back-up PG. Since the present “pickings” are slim, I assumed it obvious that we’d keep an eye on the waiver-wire or rumored “buy-outs” for possible insurance.

Cousins said it best when he referred to the comment…we only need a PG to bring the ball up the court… a prelude to some “ugly basketball”. A priceless characterization!

While Ainge was drinking his Kool Aid he not only suggested that Tony Allen played “fantastic” at the PG position…he even suggested that Gabe Pruit might be adequate there too. That I would love to see….a player who UNDERPERFORMS in SL will somehow perform better against NBA competition?

Dan Dickau was not injured when he started with us and he was horrible. Does anyone remember Mike James blowing by him multiple times? I’m surprised he’s still in the league.

The knock on Rondo is he can’t shoot, but even if that’s the case who cares ? We have plenty of shooters. He can handle the ball, pass and play defense.

Point guard is really about two very different problems; offense and defense. There are very few guys in the league who are strong on both ends. It is easier to cover flaws on offense than defense, especially if you have some top tier wing players like the C’s do.

 I’m optimistic about point guard because Rondo is very strong on defense, and House is a decent point guard defender too. This means the C’s can maintain pressure D at the point for 48 minutes. The offensive leadership is questionable, but this team doesn’t need much there.

moskqq said:

That I would love to see….a player who UNDERPERFORMS in SL will somehow perform better against NBA competition?

Al Jefferson sucked big time in summerleague last year and didn´t do to bad against NBA competition!

I seem to remember a Bulls dynasty that had Scottie Pippen bring the ball up a lot where they really didn’t even have a decent STARTING PG let alone a backup. Stop the whining. We don’t need a backup PG better than we currently have unless Rondo is injured.

Danny is right on, there are so many back up pg options and slowly we shall see which of them all is the best fit. If it doesn’t go down like we hope, there will be a pg move prior to the deadline.

Remember it was the Cavs who relied on their back up point rookie, 2nd round pick who went from 4.5 pts a game to 21 and 31 point game wins to beat the Pistons.

Absoultely no need at all to be hitting the panic bottom in August. Let the games begin and we will adjust accordingly.

Ej,
I agree with the gist of what you’re saying—Phil Jackson teams in both Chicago and L.A. have been lacking at the point. But I think guys like BJ Armstrong and Ron Harper qualify as ’’decent’’ or better, even if neither was a true PG. On the flip side, I see no reason why Ray Allen can’t pull a Ron Harper and slide into the 1 when needed.

Tony Allen Played a lot of minutes his Rookie year. He was the pny rookie who was deemed NBA ready by most of us on this site. He staretd 34 gamnes played in 77 shot 47% FG and 38% 3Pts he had an average of only 1 turnover per game and had .8 assist. as a rookie two guard those were pretty impressive numbers and much was expected until the wheels came off starting with the next summer incident in Chicago and his first injury which side lined him. Tony played the most minuets and in the most games his rookie year. It was his thrid year where he was coming back from the knee injury that he had trouble holding on to the ball for lack of Rytham. He will do alright as a back up point guard when called upon.

Wait till the trading deadline…there’s sure to be vet point guards for sale at that time for a relatively low price.
I’m content right now.

With that said, was Danny hinting at a “Scal for Point Guard” campaign.
Now THAT would be high comedy.

Cousin IT – I think that Harper was marginally better than decent. Armstrong was marginally less than decent. Rondo will fulfill every bit the role those two did without much improvement. I would put House already at the level of Armstrong. Just a shooter and handed the ball off to MJ and Pip. Nothing else.

Of course I think that you understand my point being that I trust Danny’s estimation that ’’someone’’ can bring the ball up for 10-12 min a game in relief of Rondo.

Danny Ainge’s favorite band: The Spin Doctors.

Scotty said:
 
—EHouse will be more that adequate.

He hasn’t been adequate for a playoff contending team yet, not sure why he will be this year.

Key word : Backup

Now, last time I look the champs backup is a nobody/journeyman one dimensional pg, whom I hardly heard of before the NBA Finals, named Jack Vought. The runner up, Cleveland Cavs, made the finals with no true pg(LHughes) runing the show and a backup rookie with the nickname of Boobie.

It should be alright. I am not worried.

I think Danny’s perspective and analysis of ball handling responsibilities makes sense and it’s not wildly wishful thinking, though maybe he’s being a little optimistic. But more importantly, Ainge doesn’t have to show his hand and they can be patient. A significant injury to Rondo would change things, and if it turns out they have been too optimistic they can respond.

He’ll certainly watch to see if someone they like becomes available during training camp or the first months of the season and do something if needed. They should be fine. I don’t think Ainge will jeopardize the team’s chances if a need for a backup point guard becomes apparent. Have some faith that they know what they’re doing. He deserves it.

He’s probably going to try a by-committee approach until deadline time.

After reading this thread,I felt like I just watched “The Ten Commandments”… Danny is Charlton Heston and a lot of posters here are like Edward G. Robinson…basically saying to Danny-“What have you done for us lately?”….I know-it’s a lousy analogy,but it’s what came to mind.

It may be a lousy analogy, but anybody who references Charlton Heston and Edward G. Robinson in the same sentence is alright in my book! LOL.
The problem with the backup point guard situation is th starting point guard. The Spurs won with Tony Parker at point. Who cares who the backup is?
Not sure if Ray Allen has enough in the tank to be a combo guard on this team, but I’m game.
Tony Allen? Child, please…

EJ,
The only point I dispute is Harper. He played 16 seasons and was a starter on championship teams in 2 different cities and a significant contributor at more than 30 minutes a game over a very long career. He’s a career 14 point, 4 assist, 2 steals per game player. In my eyes, that’s a good player. I’d love to see a guy like him on this team.

Other than that, though, I totally agree with your larger point that there are actually a few guys on this team who can handle what will be needed this season at the point. This is going to be an unusual team. With such a high skill level from KG, PP and RA, there could be some spectacular ball movement. They should be able to raise the play of all those around them, in particular guys like House. And even Perk is a surprisingly decent passer.