The Surreal Life

Which only confirms that recent moves have stirred the interest of the basketball world and not without justifiable cause .

But please, no more Bob Ryan quotes…it’s sad enough that this once great sportswriter has “fallon-off” the bandwagon but to continue to HUMILIATE him by quoting his untimely “nonsense” shows little respect for a past icon.

One of your better musings.

The glove probably only has fumes left in his tank, but I’m sure he’ll be on board before long, too.

 8) Life’s pretty easy as a c’s fan right about now!

Jeff — it doesn’t get said often enough what a good writer you are. You are the sole reason I spend so much time here. I really appreciate the quality of your prose — and I’m a writer for a living myself. Thanks!

I like how this piece goes back and describes how LOW this proud franchise had sunk at the end of last season and especially after the Lottery Day Disaster….I remember not only my devastation that night, but those of my buddies….in less than 2 months its hard to believe how much has turned around…Celtics literally have gone from laughing stock to THE team to talk about, and also think about joining if you are an NBA player….AMAZING….our biggest worries have changed from how the Celtics could POSSIBLY grab a playoff spot in the East to now it being how do we round off our bench around THE THREE….you HAVE to love it, no matter what….

Well they’ve generated alot of hype, but so far the new old Celtics haven’t won a single game.

Great piece, Jeff, and hilarious title.

As Bizzaro would say “Life am good!”

Actually Ainge has consistently courted “big name” free agents near the end of their careers. He was outside Karl Malone’s door at midnight in 2004, and he pushed hard to get McDyess. So this Reggie Miller thing is nothing new, and unlike Ainge’s earlier efforts, it looks like a publicity stunt.

And they haven’t lost one either!

Brikowski,

Get with the program and enjoy the ride.

Good writing Jeff. It has been surreal. We’ve gone from the outhouse to the penthouse!

Good read Jeff.

The Sports Guy calls the NBA the ‘No Balls League’.

that may be true for 90% of the league, but Danny is sporting a large pair.

- Mk

Probably not quite a publicity stunt, but when Danny’s had someone convinced we generally haven’t heard about it before it is announced. With KG changing his mind after the initial trade effort leaked it looks like Doc and Danny are opting for public diplomacy for the unpersuaded. They could not have been more public in courting Mutombo, though that didn’t work.

Frank,
Be honest, did you buy your season tickets yet?

I haven’t “accused” the team of anything. I simply pointed out that they haven’t won anything yet.

I did accuse Ainge of a publicity stunt. But who knows, amybe Miller could actually help. I bet he can still flop. Long before the soccer floppers from Europe and South America came into the league, Reggie had perfected that art. That leg kick to the defender’s crotch to draw the foul is one of the great NBA signature moves.

I’m not a big believer that a 42 year old can put us over the top. Do I think he can help? Yes, at the very least a good character guy. Someone KG respects as a player/elder.

I like good character, but if we add any more good character/elders we’re gonna have someone that Doc can look up to and turn to.

We’ve certainly pushed the button to the penthouse floor, but Brick is at least right insofar as we’re still only in the elevator—expecting to step out at the top.

Danny has shown me something this summer. He really did have a plan to accumulate as many assets as he could, knowing the team was going to suck in the short term, but also knowing that when the time was right, he’d pull a Michael Corleone and make the moves necessary to get the team back in contention. He resisted the temptation to make short term fixes to win a few more games…and the strategy was so effective, his buddy McHale is trying to do the same thing — with the same players ironically enough — in MN.

Pretty impressive if you ask me, whether all this works out or not. It’s the strategy for success in David Stern’s NBA (which is another topic for debate entirely because I think the current system sucks) but Ainge has the team poised to make a move and he’s showing he’ll think outside the box if necessary to give the C’s their best chance to raise another banner.

Whether it works or not is another story, but taking into account his whole body of work since he got here…not bad at all.

I agree for the most part with Brickowski (though he didn’t ask me to), but that doesn’t mean I want the team to fail. I, too, will go along for the ride if they manage to make it to the finals. That doesn’t change the fact that I didn’t like either trade when they took place, and I haven’t changed my mind since.

I support my country even though I am embarrassed by Bush and Cheney. The ability to do this is one of the concepts that makes this country special. That’s not to say I am embarrassed by Ainge. I believe most of his trades and draft picks have been good ones (Yes, even the LaFrentz deal because it brought West, Tony Allen and Rondo to the team). I wanted Ainge to build around Jefferson and the other young players. I wished he had not dealt for Telfair and taken Brandon Roy or Rudy Gay instead but unloading LaFrentz and gaining Ratliff’s contract were positives. I wanted him to keep the 5th pick and take Corey Brewer or Yi (preferably Brewer).

I am a fan and will still root for the team – to win this year not lose like many fans were wishing for last season. I’ve been a fan for 30 years and can’t see that changing, even though Danny traded away my favorite Celtic (Big Al). I’m also a longtime Spurs fan, harkening back to the days of Ice, James Silas and Johnnie Moore. I made it through that team’s “dark years” until Duncan and the rest came along.

It’s interesting how some people equate thoughtful criticism with disloyalty. In the same way, should we equate positive commentary with public relations and hype?

Master Po…Citing last year’s performance to justify a jaundiced view to the current season doesn’t quite ring true when you factor in that our BENCH (young as they were) played half the season. As in any sport, injuries to key players can change a team’s outlook….What would the “loaded” Patriots be without Brady?…etc.

Little D said:
  Frank,
Be honest, did you buy your season tickets yet?

Nope, and I won’t until Rivers is gone. However, I’m in the process of arranging several weekends in Toronto for basketball and Indian food.

I’m with you! If you can’t stand back and give Danny props for where we have come since the “build with youth” strategy crashed & burned ping pong ball night, you have your head up your you-know-what. Simply amazing. I am big believer that Al Jef will get better still and G.Green will turn into a star but Danny’s moves have been amazing. Anyone who calls it “luck” is naive. Luck (good & bad)always is hovering around. Some grab it, some don’t. But then it is not luck.

What we have here is a stalemate of positive and negative views about the Celtic’s prospects for the coming season. The Brick’s take the view that last year’s team (if unchanged) probably wouldn’t win 40 games (his optimistic view). No mention was even made about a possible run for #17.

The “optimists” are poised for #17 and fail to realize that the mountain is steep and our roster is loaded with “prime-time” age. While their experience will help immeasureably, do they have enough “fumes” left in their tank to accomplish the IMPROBABLE?

Short of hindsight, we really don’t know how this team will perform but there is reason to believe that we have the best opportunity in 20 years for a run at #17. For the present, without one single game having been played, that’s enough to make me more optimistic than pessimistic.

L.A. featured a team of ALL STARS a few years ago in hopes that it would deliver a World Championship. Payton and Malone were’nt enough to make it happen and KG/Allen and Pierce et. al. may not be enough. When we send NBA All Stars to the Olympics expecting a gold medal…it may not happen. All this proves is that even with the glass “full” nothing is certain in sports except the UNCERTAINTY of success!

It’s this fact of life that gives sustenance to the PESSIMISTIC point of view…they’re rarely wrong because Murphy’s Law generally prevails. So what’s so special about almost always being right?

If Reggie Miller doesn’t think he has it physically or mentally for the 82 game season, he will shy away, no lose. If he thinks he can contribute 10 min. a game, I think he can too. I don’t mind the guy getting one of the 12 roster spots then if we get him on the cheap.

Some times this board gives me a head ache. Talk radio and blogs are amazing venues to share ideas but sometimes I think those of us who participate sometimes do so just to either hear our own voice or read our own words.

Will Danny succeed in getting Miller, my guess is no because either Miller will opt not to come out of retirement or if he does he’ll do so with another team who’ll offer more cash. But the thing is, Danny has taken lemons and has made what looks to be pretty good lemonade.

What gives me the headache is those who start saying the lemonade is going to taste like piss before even trying it.

The Celtics are relevent right now — enjoy it, there will be plenty of time to complain about the taste later – after you have tried it……of course, if you wait to complain then you can’t be the first in line to say “I told you so.”

moskqq said:
  Master Po…Citing last year’s performance to justify a jaundiced view to the current season doesn’t quite ring true when you factor in that our BENCH (young as they were) played half the season.
———————————
….Yes, moskqq…and that bench is for all intents and purposes gone to our new NBDL franchise northwest. While not speaking for the Great One or Brick, I do understand where they’re coming from.

What we saw last season was a disgrace. Put it diplomatically as Jeff did or as I put it. The results were the same. The coach of that disaster is unexplainedly still here. I think Danny did a great job of facilitating the exciting new product. But Danny had to essentially gut the roster because there is no way Rivers would have the respect of any player under contract after what Doc and Danny orchestrated last season.

The fact that Danny is looking to a retired 42 year old speaks to the depleted supporting cast. We still have the NBA’s worst defensive coach and arguably, the NBA’s worst coach, period. If one of the three players goes down and Rivers actually has to coach for us to win, we’re in trouble. There’s also this Donnahy thing, which will affect us dramatically. As we have three players who are used to getting phantom star calls. This will be a season of adjustment for all star players as the officiationg will be under too much of a microscope for the obvious “star” calls.

The glass is a lot fuller than it was last year. But it ain’t full by any means.

Some times this board gives me a head ache. Talk radio and blogs are amazing venues to share ideas but sometimes I think those of us who participate sometimes do so just to either hear our own voice or read our own words.
[/quote]

Dude. I agree with you James. Well said with what you said about Venues and what not. I do enjoy coming to this venue to share ideas, and read my own writings. I call this venue TD Bank North Blog Center Station.

[quote]Will Danny succeed in getting Miller, my guess is no because either Miller will opt not to come out of retirement or if he does he’ll do so with another team who’ll offer more CATS. But the thing is, Danny has taken lemons and has made what looks to be pretty good lemonade. [/quote]

first of all James… I’m not so sure I can agree with you about the cats. What the hell does Reggie Miller want with more cats!!! hahahaha your nuts man. Turkey Hill makes a great lemon aided drink. Its not lemonade. wink wink! I dont know what I mean by think. Just try it. wink wink.

[quote]The Celtics are relevent right now — enjoy it, there will be plenty of time to complain about the taste later – after you have tried it……of course, if you wait to complain then you can’t be the first in line to say “I told you so.”

Relevant? Now? Sorry, they were relevant to me last year, and the year before that, and the year before that. and the… you get the point… so… yeah they are once again relevant now. Why does everyone keep saying they are “Relevant now”. If you are really a celtics fan then from your perspective they should have always been relevant to you. In terms of other teams, in terms of the eastern conference atleast… yeah maybe to those teams… the celtics are “relevant now”

Maybe Reggie Miller can pull a Roger Clemens and come in halfway through the season for some exhorbitant money.

Right now the glass isn’t half-empty, it’s completely empty. Talk is cheap.

Wins=0
Playoff Series Wins=0
Championships=0

But hey, talk may be cheap but it’s a 70 million-dollar glass (not counting the luxury tax).

I honestly don’t understand why Brickowski even bothers to pay THIS much attention to something that he so obviously finds disdainable and beneath him. Is it pure masochism or do you really enjoy crapping in the middle of everyone else’s picnic blanket? My guess is that it’s much more a matter of pathological antisocial tendencies rather than self-punishment.

You post here as much as anyone else, Brick, and everything you say is totally dripping with venom and spite. I just don’t get it. Do you pick your scabs until they get infected and keloid over, or do you reserve this kind of negative obsession strictly for your internet activities?

What venom?

I call it objectivity.

It’s not my money, it’s my time invested in this franchise. We need two more borderline all stars to hang #17.

Okay, substitute “venom” for “contempt”.

Same difference.

Brick, objectivity would suggest that you see the positives as well as the negatives. I have never -never- seen you devote one tenth of your activity here to pointing out things that are positive or hopeful or something that you feel good about. You’re always trashing situations, pretty much exclusively.

Mind you, I don’t really care- trash away. I just don’t understand your drive to spend so much time and effort commenting on something that you obviously can’t stand. It seems psychologically unhealthy, to put it mildly. I’m just mentioning it because it’s pretty much impossible to avoid noticing even for a casual observer like myself. Whatever dude, enjoy.

Let the games begin.

I’m somewhere in the middle on this one. While elite players are crucial in the NBA, perhaps another crucial component is chemistry and that remains to be seen. I’m reminded of Karl Malone and Payton going to the Lakers and having everyone guarantee a ring. While they made it to Finals they did not get their ring because injuries and bad chemistry got in the way. I’ve always liked Garnett and Allen, both on and off the court, and I hope they can reel in Pierce’s bizarre sulking at times on the court — a vestige of his earlier years playing with ’Toine.

Lurky, just remember C’s vs. Brick’s beloved Raptors on Sunday, November 4 in Toronto. The Raptors won’t know what him them. C’s will win by 12 .

I made a whole slew of positive posts about Al Jefferson and Delonte West.

Recently I’ve made a number of positive posts about Glenn Davis, who I think is going to be a good player. I’ve always been a huge Tony Allen fan, and supported him even when everyone else was ready to dump him. I like players who defend, because defense wins games.

I’ve made positive posts about Clifford Ray and Dave Wohl.

I’ve even made positive posts about Kevin Garnett, who is a class act and a productive player (unlike Iverson). I’ve said basically the same thing about Shuttlesworth.

But this euphoria, including 55-60 wins, all the good free agents flocking here (I wouldn’t exactly call House and Pollard blue chip free agents) or contending for championships is just wishful thinking. The objective fact is that the Celtics’ 60 million-dollar triunvirate hasn’t won a single game—- not even an exhibition game.

Oh barring injuries they’ll probably win enough to make the playoffs. That’s a fairly safe prediction. Then we’ll see.

I have nothing positive to say about Doc Rivers. On that topic I am uniformly negative and perhaps even a little venomous. He deserves it for his terrible coaching performance over the last three years, starting with the blown playoff sries vs Indiana.

Brick has a style of thinking that makes him the subject of the conversation and not the Celtic…. His objectivity is scurlios insults while his facts are tainted and twisted to imply negative meanings thus we talk “Brick said” very Interesting. Frank you are master at deception and gaining attention.

master po, do you just remember the kung fu quotes verbatum, or do you re-watch an episode to get it down pat? i love hearing qutoes from my favorite show ever used to describe my favorite team ever. keep up the good work.

Well, the Spurs with their present starters and key reserves won a title last year. Their roster hasn’t changed much.

The Celtics are a completely different team. No one knows how the new players will fit together. Ainge basically traded the whole team with the exception of Tony Allen and Scalabrine.

The Spurs are a known quantity. The Celtics are a completely unknown quantity.

I think that Danny is attempting to sign Reggie for a number of reasons. One is obviously he still believes that Reggie can contribute in some on the court. He’s kept himself in decent shape (not gaining weight like Charles), still plays ball at some level, and his role on the team would not be one that would jeapordize his future health/well being (imagine the beating Mourning takes in the paint). Another reason is Reggie is a quality veteran in terms of understanding how the game “should” be played. He knows where he’s supposed to be, when he’s supposed to be there, how to stop opposing runs, how to deal with the rollercoasters in an NBA game. Not only does his clear head and understanding of the game add cerebrally to the bench, he’s yet another solid mentor and teacher for players like Powe, Rondo, Wallace, Davis, et al. One more respected voice who can mentor and teach.

I understand, to a degree, Brick’s hatred of Doc. I don’t agree, but I understand. I would think then that having as many knowledgeable veterans (someone like Reggie Miller) would be an excellent balancing voice in the locker room and on the floor to instill ideas like the importance of defense, in younger players. If you have (in Brick’s and other notables’ opinion) a “bad” coach, don’t you want more veterans like Reggie around?

For the record: I am a Reggie h8r. Never been a fan, not even when they played against the Knicks, but he does add value to this roster and there are many ways in which he can be a tremendous asset to the team.

Brickowski “they havent won a single game yet”…

Thats brilliant….incredible insight…we benefitted from that incredible insight…could that possibly be because the season starts in November and right now its August? Love it…

Like Cousy has always said, it’s the legs that go. Not the desire, not the head, not the shot but the legs.

Ok, so they haven’t lost a single game yet. They could potentially go 82-0 and 16-0 in the playoffs.

Does that make the kool aid drinkers happy?

Well according to the Herald the Celtics are hiring Tom Thibodeau. That brings #17 just a little bit closer. Hopefully if the team gets off to a bad start they will fire Rivers immediately and replace him with Thibodeau, who was JVG’s lead assistant in Houston and who is an excellent coach. Van Gundy ball is exactly what Pierce and this cast of older stars needs, particularly in the playoffs.

Wally Delonte = Ray Allen – We win that one. Wally was never healthy and able to contribute. Delonte was great, but Ray Allen, even at 30 is f-a-r better. I’m not sure how it can be argued otherwise.

Al Ryan Gerald = Kevin Garnett. Gerald contributed a little scoring at times, and at times looked lost. Al was starting to show he might be an all star, and was a 20/10 every night. Ryan had good games and bad games but was great off the bench. Theo never played. Telfair never showed up.

The whole team gone? Not close. We lost 3 decent (and even much maligned at times players)1 possible contributor and 2 non factors for 2 bonafied All Stars STILL in their prime. Sounds like a winner to me.

I think Danny had few options when he took over:
Sing FA’s – tried and failed
Trades – Antoine and Paul were his only assets. Twoine trade didn’t work out as intended.
Accumulate Talent via draft- worked well with some smart drafting.

A point came when he wanted to go total youth (trading Paul for C. Paul). That didn’t work. If we had the first – second pick in the draft I’m not so sure that we would not have seen Paul traded for more youth and picks. Getting the pick that we did offered up another scenario and that was to acquire Allen and Garnett.

Maybe Danny has made some mistakes, but to be in a position to make a deal for Allen and Garnett and retain your best player . . . I’m not so sure you can say he’s done a bad job.

The Raptors haven’t won a single game yet.

MBurke15 said:
  The Raptors haven’t won a single game yet.
 

That’s exactly right. But they won 47 last year (not 24) and their young players (Bosh, T.J. Ford) are a year older.

Gee, I wonder if the Raptors offered Bosh and all of their good young players for Garnett. Maybe they did and were turned down. What do you think?

Should Doc do a blatently horrible job at coaching, he’ll be gone. Period. And the 2008-2009 season will have a new coach at the helm for the compainers to complain about.
————————-

Based on what, mpcu40? Rivers went from bad his first year to worse and worser. His defense went from bad to jokingly nonexistent with the same players. His crunch-time decision making rivals a bad intramural coach. I’d like to agree with you, but I don’t.
It’s delusional to have championship visions regardless of the roster he’s presented with. Championships are won on the defensive end of the court. River’s teams have shown a complete disdain for defense.

With Rivers, if everything goes right, 45-47 wins and probably squeaking past the first round. With a real NBA coach, 8-10 more wins and at least another round.

“they havent won a single game yet”..

I guess that means until they do, the possibility is out there that they WONT win a game…I mean come on, like Brick said, you actually havent SEEN this Celtics team win a game yet, have you? Going with The Bricks mindset for a second, after this incredibly questionable trade they made, the POSSIBILITY that they will go 0-82 is MORE LIKELY since, of course, they havent won a game yet with Pierce, Allen, and Garnett….

Im starting to come around, Brick….

Just a suggestion:

If you disagree with Brick, refute his argument, beat him with facts and reasoning, rather than dismissing him as negative.

I’d just like to see one thread that stays on topic instead of devolving into a slam-Brick/defend-Brick festival.

By the way, moskqq, you made a good point about the team only winning 24 games last year because the bench had to play starting roles. But that’s exactly the fear many of us have about this team. We’ve got better starters, but a weaker bench than last year’s team. So what happens if starters go down again this year?

No, they’d have to go something like 2-10 for an immediat4e coaching change, unless one of the three stars complains about Rivers.

Brick…Where in the Herald did you read that Tom Thibodeau was coming to the Celtic’s? Great news if true!

Jeff’s recent post that management and writers appear to be listening to the fan base must have substance in view of recent Celtic additions….Adding Tom Thibodeau to fill our coaching vacancy would address our need for a defense-minded coach….and would appear to answer critics who feared a lesser hire…

Wow! It’s heated up in here and I haven’t had a chance to jump in and rip someone being negative.

How about just backing off the statement “the glass is empty”?! The glass isn’t empty! It has a lot in it. I don’t think last year matters much for us or the Spurs. It’s what happens next year and WE are the hot topic and the team to watch, not the Spurs! Doesn’t mean we will win it all, but there sure are a lot of analysts smarter than us that think we will be in the finals. I’ll see it 3/4 full!

Now that we have, more or less, the same nucleus of players for the next 3-4 years, I’d love to see Ainge coach what he created.
But Doc would have to be unthinkably bad for that to happen.

I cannot believe there is still so much negativity (generated mostly by the eternal pessimist BRICK) floating around this message board. Brick, out of curiosity which direction do you think the team should have taken with the #5 pick? I’d put money on you being pissed off with those results as well.

Mpcu40, I doubt that anybody will be smiling with a 24-17 record at the break. Least of all, the people who gave up half of our roster and our long term future for immediate gratification. I think that’s probably somewhere around where we’ll be. I don’t believe a Rivers coached team will ever reach 60 wins…or 55 for that matter. The glass will never be full as long as Rivers is in it. Nice guy….bad coach.
————————
Cousin it said:
“So what happens if starters go down again this year?”

Since no draft pick is a comin’…..we’ll still win more games than last season. Sad commentary.

No doubt about it, one of our big 3 may get hurt.

The bench may live down to expectations and cost us.

We may get outcoached and lose a winable playoff series.

We could pull a Mavs and get beat in the first round.

All possibilities, including we have a decent shot at being in the NBA Finals this year. I will take my chances with this club for the next 4 years.

Regardless of what you may think about players Ainge has brought in, they are now Celtics and we need to treat them that way. Pollard, House, etc, have done nothing negative yet to the team. If they pull a Mark Blount or a Gin Baker, then by all means we should pile the negativity on them. But until then, they’ve got a blank slate in my book. They’re Celtics now, and we should root for them to succeed. As Brick has said, they’ve done nothing yet. So let’s give them the benefit of the doubt.

On the defense front, and like the stat or not, over at 82games.com they’ve devised a “Defensive Composite Score”, a sabermetric-esque number placing a player’s defensive success. Obviously this isn’t baseball and stastical analysis is a much fuzzier area but these things are at least interesting to entertain. That said, a comparison:

Scores of 40 : Excellent defender
20 to 40: Very good defender
0 to 20: Above average
-20 to 0: Below average
-40 to -20: Poor defender
-40 and below: Terrible defender

Ryan Gomes received a -19.2 overall putting him in the 19.8%
Scal: -10.6 35.1%
Leon Powe: 16.1 77.0%
Perk: 20.5 81.6%
Rondo: 33.9 90.8%

by the by, Garnett comes in with a 54.5

the article is here: http://www.82games.com/nichols2.htm

The Real Large James, If you’re concerned about chemistry among our 3 just go back and look at the pictures at the press conference. I think we’ll need to give them time to adjust to each other’s game (and this goes for the rest of the team too), but I don’t believe these guys won’t get along. I’ve been a bit ambivalent about this trade also because I loved watching Al Jeff. But I’m starting to get used to the idea.

Sorry meant to post that in the Thibodeau thread.

iowa, we will have a 1st round pick next year…the year we wont have one will be 2009…..and as far as the statement “so what if the starters go down again next year”….thats a statement ANY team in the NBA would have a hard time answering…no team in pro sports, be it NFL, MLB, NHL, or NBA can withstand multiple major injuries to its starters, so people, what is the point of worrying about that? If Tom Brady, L. Maroney, and Rich Seymour go down this year, guess what, the Pats are hurting big time..same with the Spurs if Duncan and Parker went down…so whats the point of mentioning it? it would kill ANY TEAM, not just the Celtics…..

My concern with injuries is not that this star or that star might get injury, as pointed out any pro franchise will struggle with their star out.

The key for me is that we don’t play the Big 3 40 minutes a game, and if something like Perk’s foot gets tweaked, we err on the side of caution, give him rest and not prolong it.

We either need a strong medical presence for this season or we need to get that guy who stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

If I see Flavor Flav as the honorary Celtic score keeper on opening night, I know this truely is the surreal life.

A strong medical presence? The C’s still have Ed Lacerte, 20 years on the job, one of the finest around AND he may have a gold medal (do they give him one?) for being the trainer to the original dream team. So whatever question marks surround the team, their bench, the coach, Danny’s plans, etc. one thing I can say I have confidence in is Ed Lacerte. I think Brick, Scal Sucks, Jeff, Master Po or anyone around here would agree on that.

NUMBA 17,
Of course that comment applies to any team. Which reinforces my point.

My comment about starters going down was in deirect response to an earlier post about the Celtics horrible season being due, primarily, to bench players having to play major roles when starters got injured.

My point was that having a good bench is much more important than a lot of people on this site care to admit. I keep reading posts where people say, the bench situation will take care of itself, and ,with these starters, we don’t need a strong bench. I think that’s deluded, BS thinking. For most pro teams, as you point out, key players do get injured or miss games. Elite teams are able to weather those storms by having bench players who can step up. More importantly, elite teams have bench players who can maintain leads and get the starters some rest throughout the season.

I don’t see those types of players on the Celtics bench.

Cousin It, when a team has two good players and both go down, no team could survive that, bench or not. It happened to Milwaukee last year as well as the C’s. If Tim Duncan went down so do the Spurs and if Steve Nash goes down so do the Suns, regardless of the benches. With so many teams and not enough good players to go around I don’t think any team can have a bench to make up for the loss of star players. If they were that good they wouldn’t be on the bench (with the exception of the “sixth man” if a team is fortunate enough to have one. The bench IS important to support front line players, but cannot replace them for long periods of time.

The bench’s role in the NBA is, at the very least, to not relinquish leads that are built by the starters. Secondly, it is to provide rest for the starters so they don’t wear out come playoffs time. The Spurs manage minutes very well. Duncan, Parker and Ginobili play fewer regular season minutes than any star players on other teams. The cost is generally a lower seeding for the playoffs, but that is the smart move if you’re team has to rely on players whose age is around 30 or higher.

Popovich has proven to be a master at handling the roster he has been given. Of course he is helped immensely by having great players on that roster, but other coaches have managed to screw up talented rosters or not get the most out of them.

Which brings us to Doc Rivers. After years of absorbing heavy duty criticism and many, many losses, does anyone really believe Doc is going to manage the 2007/08 Celtics with anywhere near the finesse that Popovich brings to the Spurs?

It would help Doc if he had decent bench players on the squad. I just don’t see quality guys on the Celtics at this point. Tony Allen should be one but his comeback from serious injury is certainly a huge question mark. Leon Powe is a hard-worker but too undersized as well as being only a second-year pro. Jackie Manuel is an even bigger question mark than Allen. I can’t imagine counting on Brandon Wallace for a big conbtribution. Eddie House is a one-trick pony who cannot defend or play the point very well. Big Baby and Pruitt are second-rounders who may or may not be signed for the season. Scot Pollard, I think, is the only guy outside of Allen capable of really helping the team. And that leaves Scalabrainy, who had a little success when playing with one of the best point guards in the league and has been an absolute disaster with the Celtics. He is awful.

The lack of a decent bench wouldn’t even be so bad if the Celtics weren’t counting on an oft-injured, unproven big man at center and a second-year point guard who has holes in his game. Even Ainge admits the roster still needs some tweaking.

When Popovich goes to his bench, players such as Ginobili, Brent Barry, Jacque Vaughn, Francisco Elson, Matt Bonner, Robert Horry and Beno Udrih answer the call. Right about now, I’d beg and plead to have Vaughn or Udrih as the back-up point guard instead of House. Even if you insist Ginobili is actually a starter, this puts Michael Finley on the second unit. There is no comparison between what the Spurs have and Boston’s bench.

You can go on if you want to about scoring averages and all that staistical junk. It doesn’t matter. The Spurs second unit generally holds onto (or increases) leads and provides rest for the starters. Whether they do it with offense, defense, mirrors or voodoo is immaterial.

TrueGreen,
You seem to still be missing my point. It’s simple: Benches are more important than people here are acknowledging; the Celtics bench, as currently constructed, is exceptionally bad. If not the worst in the league, than one of the worst.

lemonadesky’s post pretty much says it all.