hankfinkle is incorrect IMO. tanking is sleazy but its not cheating. its using the rules that are in place to their advantage. if it was cheating they’d change the rules.

OMG. BB was really stupid with the whole cheating thing. It’s NOT against the rule to pay for some slobs ticket and stick him in row 10 and film the sideline. Or he could have used a guy with binoculars..

Now we have to sit and listen to how the Patriots entire run is tainted because Bill didn’t follow some “rule.” It’s being blown so out of proportion.. It’s really sad for the players and the fans.

Pete

Honestly as far as cheating goes the whole steroids/HGH thing is a much bigger deal as it goes against the spirit of fair play. Decoding signs is perfectly example though – as Miami used tape recordings of Brady’s audible last year..

I don’t think the problem in basketball is cheating. Every coach knows every other teams’ plays anyway. That’s why it’s execution, not surprise that usually wins. To me the two big problems in the NBA are talent dilution (accentuated by players not really going to college anymore) and poor officiating, or at best inconsistent officiating. The refs can’t call all fouls because the game would never end. So just be consistent. The “flops” and pulling the defender into the pick or downright pulling him down are calls that should be seen by one of 3 refs. I would like to see these called everytime. It would stop it from happening and it would be better for the game of basketball. As much as I thought the idea of signing Reggie was neat, I couldn’t stand him because of all the stuff he pulled and got away with. It was so obvious too that I can’t understand why the refs didn’t make those call. Often those plays by Miller decided games. The only reason not to call them was hidden agendas by someone somewhere. I guess it’s not cheating, but it stinks and hurts the game.

As far as flops are concerned, somehow we assume refs to be right 100% of the time, and at the same time are happy when a guard shoots .500 from the field.

My point is, it is human to make mistakes, and even with three refs on the court, these will happen. As long as they err randomly, and do not tolerate one of the teams on purpose, I’ll live with that.

kozlodoev, flops are an easy call to make. Sure there’ll be some mistakes and I have no problem with that. I do have a problem in that the calls are not made consistently. Miller was known for his flops and got away with them all the time, at least with the Celtics (probably some exaggeration here, but not much). A guy like Miller should never have gotten away with it. I also know refs will make mistakes. It’s a tough game to call. But the calls always seem to go against the C’s. When PP drives to the basket and loses the ball, it seems like it’s almost always a block or steal instead of a foul. Those calls don’t seem to happen on the other end of the floor. I know I’m biased, but I see it that way, especially with aid of TV replays. Tommy sees it before the replay. He’s wrong sometimes and admits it when he sees the replay. I’ll give the refs the benefit of the doubt on some of these ? calls, but there are way too many to be ?.

1. I have always been convinced that Anthony Mason used steroids.
2. If you look at players today they are much bulkier than they were 25 years ago.
3. At a very young age players are taught to “hook” an opponent with their elbow or arm when they drive. They are taught to commit fouls that they can get away with. Is that cheating?
4. Basketball defense is much better today because they break down video’s of an opposing player and make tape of every move, every tendency and the effectiveness of those moves and tendencies and then the defender tries to take away their higher percentage moves. And if you can’t figure out the plays being run you are pretty pitiful in basketball.

rqk, I know I’ll get blasted for this, but I thought the same thing about Lebron James before he came into the league. When I first saw him, I said, that kid has to be on sterioids to have a man’s body like that as early as high school!

TrueGreen – I agree with most of what you post, but your comment of ‘’But the calls always seem to go against the C’s’’ is a huge HOMER Cool Aid Conspiracy statement. Funny how the team that is losing always blames the refs. Bad calls are made on both sides. Usually when a ref is calling it fairly tight or fairly loose there is a problem. Then when they deviate from that pattern it looks extra bad. In those cases both teams think the ref has it out for them. The only exception I feel is when a player is an extreme whiner. Then the refs will intentionally be tougher on that player, deservedly so. (Rasheed)

Are you only talking about the NBA? Recruiting of high school players to other high schools is horrible. Ask any high school coach who has to play teams that have kids from around the country yet playing on a local high school team.
As to the NBA, the “cheating” problems typically involve trying to hurt someone. It has been going on for a very long time. When the guy quit dribbling the basketball to punch out Ainge, do you figure it was because Ainge did something only mildly illegal?
However the most noticeable cheating on the NBA level is how the games are refereed. It is not that the referees cheat, it is that the league dictates how the game is to be called. I cringe watching some games as they are called without any regard to any rules that I have learned. Jordan actually “taught” his illegal move where he grabs the defenders hand and yanked him one way and drove the other. He had gotten away with it so long that he considered it a basic basketball move and taught it to young players.

hankfinkle is incorrect IMO. tanking is sleazy but its not cheating. its using the rules that are in place to their advantage. if it was cheating they’d change the rules.
———————————-

I agree with hankfinkel about 1% of the time….this is the 1%.

Last season’s “performance” by Celtics management was disgraceful at every level. It was so obvious that Stern shouldn’t have let us pick at the worst case scenario. He should have taken the pick away. Jimmy, cheating is cheating. Calling what was done “sleazy” is a gross understatement.

The Donnahy situation is a blessing. If it takes away the unintended cheating consequence that is star calls.

Until Stern addresses the tanking situation in an earnest, overt manner, overt cheating for draft position will remain the norm. Addressing it the way he did in this last draft was a step forward. But steps need to be taken beyond the “coincidental” worst-case-scenario draft positioning.

remember Kevin Willis, one season i think around his prime, he looked like tony Battie only a little skinnier(joking) but basically like TB, i was living in Marietta and would go watch the Hawks scrimmage , and there was kevin willis with about 30lbs of muscle he didnt have 6 months prior or his entire career.It was night and day, not the amount of muscle you could put on naturally, but like Jeff wrote , most bb players
dont want to take anablic steroids and pump up unless there game plan is to rebound and enforce (k Willis) job description.most would want to take enhancements like ben johnson, they make you faster, stronger,gives you more endurance, and helps you heal and recharge faster and doesnt look obvious oh and also more aggressive which many ball players lack.. Gerald green could be Amare Stoudemire if he took hgh or something out of a balco lab

As far as tanking = cheating of course it is that is why they changed the rules to the lottery system. The Rockets, much like Memphis last year, fired their coach and hired a coach to intentionally lose games so they could Draft Olajuwon. I would say this past year showed that Mr. Stern has addressed the tanking situation, no?

Mark Blount took steroids and I am sure he is not the only one.

Get ahold of Red Auerbach’s book from the 1960’s on playing better basketball. There’s a whole section in there about ‘gamesmanship’. It’s pretty interesting.

BTW this Belichek thing reminds me how overblown the Don Imus thing was. In both cases the media — fueled by a few individuals with axes to grind — piled on.

If the prime of Red’s career had been now, the sharks would be circling for him the same as with Belichek.

We in this country love tearing successful people down. It’s sad.

Just win, baby!!

Plowboy – Be accurate with your comments at least. What the Celtics did, per you, was not cheating. You are justified in calling it disgraceful if you feel they intentionally lost games, but not to call it cheating. Please show me the spot in the rulebook where it dictates how much a team plays each player on the squad. Not there.

They have an obligation to try and bring the Celtics a championship. Had they not done what they did, they would not have had the 5th pick in the draft, been able to use that pick to trade for Ray Allen, and lured KG over as a result. Where that does not guarantee us a championship, it sure puts us in a situation where we have a good chance to.

I for one completely support the idea of putting our young guys in the game to see who we wanted to let go this summer, and let our old guy Pierce get rest. How you can call this cheating? You may be dis-satisfied as a fan not seeing the best player for that game, but cheating is not the right name for it.

Does tanking on purpose count as cheating???

Back in the 80’s, the C’s were involved in a tight game on national TV. I don’t remember the people involved, but I believe it was against the 76ers. The coach was ejected and was in the locker room. There was a late time out and the TV crew showed what the opposing team was going to do. The C’s coach got word to th bench and successfully defended the play and one the game.

I would think this is very close to what the Pats were doing. BTW, I have no problem with it. I think Eric was embarressed and decided to get his revenge the only way he could.

Playa, I’m glad to hear from you.

While short term, the situation ended up turning out pretty good, I believe Danny got lucky in finding a friendly training partner. I believe he had no choice but to gut the youth from the squad. There is no way Danny or Rivers would ever have had the youth’s respect after tanking away a year. OK, Playa, I’ll humor you. Celtics’ management intentionally lost games. They made a mockery of the game. They compromised the integrity of the most storied franchise in sport’s history….But they did not cheat.

———————————
EJPLAYA said:
They have an obligation to try and bring the Celtics a championship. Had they not done what they did, they would not have had the 5th pick in the draft,
————————————

I also believe that we would have had a much better chance of getting a higher pick than 5th if we’d have finished higher than 2nd worst. Stern sent a major shot over the bow for our, Memphis’ and Milwaukee’s behavior last season…not major enough, in my opinion.

Plowboy – You had me until the conspiracy theory. Stern did no so such thing and to continue sticking with that line just makes you look foolish. If he controlled this, he would never have rewarded Portland and a Seattle team trying to force a move out of town.

I disagree 100% that playing your youngs to judge their ability is making a mockery of the game if you are out of contention. There is no integrity lost. Just a team that now has a chance to compete. The fact that they were smart enough to evaluate more accurately the guys they had means they are better for it. It also gave other teams the ability to watch players like GG more and convince themselves he is just a season away from being a star. He got those minutes because we were smart. I would have been much more upset if they ran Pierce and Delonte and those who were ailing to death just to win 1-2 more games. That isn’t smart. That also isn’t cheating.

IMO- tanking games is a form of cheating the fans and the integrity of the game.

Also, I think it is cheating when MJ, Bird, Magic or whomever gets a questionable ticky tack call to go their way, but then on the other end of the court the exact same play or a more prevelient foul is not called on the “star”. Hey a foul is a foul, be consistent, be fair.

For the record, I hate cheaters!

EJPLAYA, you got me, I am a homer.

TrueGreen – I must admit that I am as well. Funny how it sounds worse coming out of someone else’s mouth!

Mark my words, in two weeks Bill Bellicek will tell us he found Jesus!