Daily Babble: Worst Celtic You Have Ever Seen?
by Steve Weinman on Jan 15, 2008 11:00 PM EST
in NBA Articles
Email
PrintCeltics Nation is in a state of panic.
In the crunch time that is the midst of January, the team has lost three of its last four games to teams far below its level. The boys in green and white (and black trim, too, these days) have seen their record drop all the way down to 30-6, with the winning percentage plummeting to the bottomless depths below .900. The coach who two weeks ago was an early front-runner for Coach of the Year is suddenly under major scrutiny from all angles. The point guard help that the team survived without for 32 games is now being desperately sought -- at least by those of us (self included) with the active imaginations and free time to dream up intriguing trade scenarios and free agent signings.
It is a time of crisis.
And with that said, here we come to make light of the situation.
Yes, the coaching concerns are legit. Yes, the depth concerns at the point and in the pivot need to be addressed. No, I'm not kicking them to the curb. In the coming days in this space, we'll get to Doc, the point guard situation and all other serious issues. But as long as we're in the midst of a week full of negativity, as this 1-3 stretch represents the first truly unpleasant adversity the team has had to face all season (the four-game West Coast swing may have appeared to present adverse conditions, but that turned out all right), let's make sure we have some fun with our complaining as well.
So to that end, I ask you, the reader, the following: Who is the worst Celtic you have ever had the privilege of watching?
No hesitation from this end. Let's get the ball rolling with a sterling nomination of one Orien Greene.
All of Steve's daily posts can be found in the CelticsBlog: NBA blog. Check him out!
In the interest of full disclosure and maintaining at least some modicum of fairness, the circumstances of Orien's tenure weren't exactly optimal. He was a 23-year-old rookie who spent just one season with a 33-win team. It wasn't exactly like he was playing with the easiest cast of characters imaginable.
But that said, the man played 1,232 minutes of largely putrid basketball in a Celtics uniform during the 2005-06 season, and he did everything in his power to earn this distinction.
A late second-round pick in 2005, Greene came to town billed as a very solid defender with play-making skills albeit not much as far as a scoring touch. Oddly enough, that scouting report sounds like another recent Celtics draft pick at the point.
The difference, however, is that two years later, it is clear that Rajon Rondo does have some defensive ability and play-making skills, and he is even developing a scoring touch.
In his 15.4 minutes per game spread over 80 outings with the 2005-06 Celtics, Orien Greene demonstrated the possession of none of those attributes. None.
The strengths of his game were supposed to be his defense and passing. Though he stood 6-foot-4 and supposedly had fairly solid quickness, Greene simply wasn't ready mentally to play defense at the professional level, consistently getting beat badly by more seasoned veterans and often committing silly fouls to exacerbate the problem. Yikes.
The play-making on offense wasn't much better. The offense routinely stagnated with Greene on the floor, unable to get baskets for long stretches of time. His 1.14 assist-to-turnover ratio (1.6 assists per game and 1.4 turnovers per game) only served to underscore this point. He wasn't skilled in the art of penetration, and without being able to effectively work his way into the lane, Greene was often left standing with the ball well outside the top of the key without many viable options for good looks at the basket.
Given Greene's troubles getting others open looks from the point, it should come as no surprise that he couldn't do much for himself either when it came to putting the ball in the basket. The man shot inside of 40 percent from the field, and opponents were more than happy to give him all the space he wanted both from behind the arc (22.5 percent) and at the charity stripe, where he shot 66.2 percent, abysmal for a guard.
Orien Greene played an average of nearly a third of every game he appeared in at point guard for the Boston Celtics for the one year he spent in Kelly green. He couldn't handle the ball, shoot or pass, and he wasn't all much of a defender either.
And he topped it off by doing 90 on a Boston main street, getting suspended and subsequently cut at season's end.
Without a doubt, Orien Greene is the worst player whom I have ever witnessed don the tradition-steeped green and white uniform.
Who is yours?
55 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Interesting thought, Roy. Been a while since I’ve heard that name.
Looking back through his records, the only defense I can find in favor of Orien keeping the nod thus far would be the fact that at least Szabo was averaging upwards of 9 rebounds per 40 minutes. Beyond that…not much to write home about.
Nice nominee. So does Brett have your vote?
-sw
-sw
Come on people we all know the answer to the worst celtic ever……….his name and number………#30…..Marty Conlon
by BleedingGreen on Jan 16, 2008 1:07 AM EST reply actions
I’ll just toss a couple of my favorites:
Milt Palacio – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpaNGaOjlyA
Joe Forte – .8 ppg, .8 rpg, .8 apg (21st pick in draft ahead of gerald wallace, dalembert, tinsley, and tony parker)
Vin Baker – probably the most logical choice
Justin Reed – 2 ppg, .9 rpg, .2 asp (1 game winning preseason shot)
by YouveBeenPierced on Jan 16, 2008 2:07 AM EST reply actions
WORST CELTIC EVER:
RICK PITINO, hands down,no question.
2nd worst: Curtis Rowe for his overall effect on the team
Next: Owner John Brown
4th: Whoever the team doc was when we drafted Bias and Reggie Lewis. If its not the same guy, ok.
5th: Anyone who was with the organization and had issues with Johnny Most.
6th. Hank Finkel
wahz,
My hat is off to you. Looking at the wording again, “worst Celtic you have ever had the privilege of watching” indeed does not necessarily restrict this discussion to players, although it was my original intention.
Pitino is a brilliant choice. Thanks for writing in.
Keep ’em coming, folks.
-sw
Try this one on for size. My favorite cause of the comparisons!
In the 1989 NBA Draft, the Boston Celtics selected Michael Smith of BYU with the 13th selection in the First Round. The Celtics’ Red Auerbach, during pre-draft analysis, compared Smith to Celtic legend Larry Bird.
Smith was taken ahead of Tim Hardaway, Shawn Kemp, Vlade Divac, and Cliff Robinson. Oooops!!!
by Las Vegas Asian on Jan 16, 2008 2:34 AM EST reply actions
I humbly suggest Brett Szabo be exempt from consideration because of an ‘05 appearance on Celticsblog Top 10 Celtics’ Dunks:“#4. Brett Szabo v Golden State, 1997: Another underdog pick. He got the biggest reaction of the night (and probably his career), though, when he leapt up to grab a high carom off the rim with one hand and slammed it down in one motion. Perhaps mainly on the strength of this play, the Celtics signed the 6’11” Szabo for the rest of the season and the rest was…forgettable."
In his place I would like to nominate: Jerome Moiso.
by The Walker Wiggle on Jan 16, 2008 3:18 AM EST reply actions
i.e. I would take Blue Edwards or Junior Burrough over Jerome Moiso any day.
by The Walker Wiggle on Jan 16, 2008 3:33 AM EST reply actions
I rarely post, but I HAD to chime in on this discussion. With all due respect to Junior Burrough (who definitely needed to be mentioned in this conversation – good call, WalkerWiggle lol), if we’re taking “worst Celtic ever” to mean “least talented,” I think we have to strongly consider someone from the gold-standard of non-talented Celtic teams: the 15-67, ML Carr-coached, 1996-97 edition. And so I’d like to nominate Mr. Steve Hamer. Even as an irrepressibly upbeat 9/10 year-old die-hard that season who was pretty used to (and disturbingly comfortable with) losing, I vividly remember cringing every time he stepped out onto the parquet. Sorry, Steve.
http://www.celticstats.com/player/stevehamer.html
(Note: If we’re considering “worst Celtic ever” to be a broader, more abstract designation, I think wahz is right: Pitino, hands down indeed.)
by bornin1987 on Jan 16, 2008 4:17 AM EST reply actions
Most praise ever heaped on the worst player: Walter McCarty. “I love Waltuh” was a poor rebounder and ballhandler who didn’t last long at all in the league when traded from the Celtics. Nice guy, but I never could understand Tommy’s fascination with him.
by halfman/halfoyster on Jan 16, 2008 6:16 AM EST reply actions
there are a ton of choices from the guys that got invited to camp and never made it to the roster, but if you restrict it to guys that played at least a season with the team, then you get some more “famous” names
I haven’t seen Acie Earl mentioned yet
Travis Knight anyone?
how about Jerome Moiso?
remember when we had high hopes for Jiri Welsch?
Joseph Forte. He wore Lakers retro gear “to the office” and played his way off the court with his general stupidity on and off the court. Nevermind the fact he cost a first round draft pick and who should’ve been a whole lot better. Think about it: he fooled the late, great Red Auerbach with his play in college!
My second vote goes to “Trader Rick” Pitino who embodied the spirit of the anti-Celtic.
by BleedinGreen417 on Jan 16, 2008 8:18 AM EST reply actions
remember duane schintzius (sp?)? those who already put down joe forte- amen-that was one of red’s booboos.and how could we leave off- the iowa train wreck- acie earl. rick pitino was not the worst- he was here for duncan and he tried- he was part of the reggie lewis-len bias bermuda triangle. vin baker had talent- he was a heartbreaker. blount i would vote for the most hated and laziest player per dollar. curtis rowe was not as bad as sydney wicks- one of the most selfish players.
orien Greene wasnt even close to the worst…
how about the amazing Acie Earl. Or Pervis Ellison. or Dwayne Schintzius. Or Popeye Jones. Or Jeroime Moiso.
We have had some amazingly bad players, and Orien was definitely not good, but I dont think he is really close to the worst.
by yall hate on Jan 16, 2008 9:16 AM EST reply actions
Big guys come to the forefront for some reason: Thomas “mo’ food” Hamilton, Alton “speedy” Lister, Mark “fundamentals” Acres…, and when it comes to the smaller guys, Kedrick by far, but also Ronnie Grandison – who played decent minutes very poorly when Bird was hurt, and above all Gerald Paddio, who didn’t even make the final cut in 1988 after the Madrid McDonalds tournament.
by KG17 on Jan 16, 2008 9:22 AM EST reply actions
What I appreciated about Orien was that he did seem to try to listen and try to get better. He hired a personal trainer to work with him, his 3-point shooting improved markedly over the season he was here (admittedly it improved from “non-existent” to “not awful”) and you could see that Doc was trying to get him to slow down, which he did…the problem being that this cut down on his assists but not his turnovers. And yes, he was a late 2nd round pick who wasn’t expected to play at all — only did because of injuries. And the team wasn’t markedly worse when Marcus Banks was playing in place of Orien.
In other words I think expectations and attitude are two factors. Banks had better skills than Orien but never seemed to learn, or even try to learn. A guy like Forte may have had better skills, too, but the expectations were too high and the attitude (way) too poor. A guy like Scal isn’t mentioned here because of his good attitude, even though, skill-wise (.316 shooter this season as a power forward, .276 for 3s), he’s basically a white, 6’10" Orien Greene.
Speaking of which, yeah, it’s gotta be Tabak, Weinstrom or Szabo…
Toss up of sketchy big guys Steve Hamer, Darren Tilis or Bruno Sundov.
Those guys make Acie Earl look good.
by ReggieR on Jan 16, 2008 10:10 AM EST reply actions
Although he only played in 7 games, I can remember be appalled by watching Ruben Wolkowyski play during the 2002-2003 season. I would also put Bruno Sundov, Jerome Moiso, Steve “The Hammer” Hamer and the oft-troubled “Big Ham” Thomas Hamilton.
More recently, watching Kevin Pittsnoggle play in the preseason for the Celtics in ‘06 changed the way I look at college basketball. Kevin Pittsnoggle was an above average Division I player, yet was literally the worst professional basketball player I have ever seen. He was horrible. I haven’t been able to enjoy D-1 ball since.
Clearly, making this decision is a different process for everyone because I didn’t define a set standard for “worst.” Is “worst” the guy who is most disappointing regarding living up to expectations, i.e. biggest bust? Is “worst” the guy who cost the most, be it in money or talent given up to get him? Or do the guys who barely played and embarrassed themselves when they did get the nod? I’m still not entirely sure…and I’ll leave that to the community to define.
However, a few scrambled thoughts on same of the names put forth thus far:
Vin Baker — Makes sense because he was for the most part an absolute disaster in a Celts uniform and trading for his contract was a complete mess. But that said, at least he gave us a glimmer of hope, right? Vin got off to a very nice start in 2003-04, going for double-digit points 12 times in his first 14 games (4 20-plus point performances in that span) and carrying the offense at times. Of course, he then proceeded to fall apart once more after that…
Mark Blount — As is painfully clear to virtually all of us on this board, Blount’s contract extension turned out to be a ginormous mistake as his nonchalance and general poor play made fools out of anyone (yes, embarrassingly, myself included) who supported his 6-year, $41-million monstrosity of a contract when it happened. But should he get some points back for the hellacious second half in which he put up 18 double-doubles (including a 28-21 game) and averaged in the range of 14 points and 10 boards per game? Or is it outweighed by his performances in non-contract years? He is definitely near the top of my list on most dislikable C’s. Worst? Hmm…that one’s up to you all.
Bruno Sundov — Nice call to those who mentioned him. I’m kicking myself for not thinking of that one.
Finally, I’m bummed to see that somehow, one of my all-time favorites — Walter McCarty got a mention here. Yes, Walt in some regards symbolized all that is wrong with the 21st game — a 6-foot-10 dude who could do things: dunk and shoot threes — but he was a great energy guy for some of the first decent C’s teams we had witnessed in a while at that point, and he was a fun dude to watch. Thoroughly enjoyed his time here. But to each his own, of course.
Much thanks to all who have read and written in so far, as I’m thrilled by the responses here. Looking forward to reading more from all of you as well as anyone else who is interested in chiming in on this one.
-sw
Pretty much everyone’s been mentioned, but I guess the biggest question is how you’re evaluating your own personal decision.
Is the worst the player who had certain expectations that never showed ANYTHING?
Is the worst the player with the largest contract to talent ratio?
Is the worst the person with the least amount of talent that shouldn’t even be in the league?
For me:
1) Moiso, hands down. I don’t even see how anyone can argue this — light years worse than Michael Smith. Moiso had athletic ability but it was NEVER on display. Even someone as bad as Kedrick Brown would show you flashes at least every so often. That’s what you get for drafting a kid who preferred to eat coconuts off the beach in his native Guadeloupe than practice basketball, I guess.
2) Travis Knight, because Vin Baker even at the height of his gin-bloatedness could at least contribute on some nights. Mark Blount doesn’t qualify for me either because despite his status as a walking 7 foot malignant tumor, his performance to contract ratio was much tighter (ie he played better than the other 3 mentioned here). Travis Knight was the worst by far — large contract, tiny talent.
3) Orien Greene. End of story.
Pitino probably as a talent evaluator. Curtis Rowe for his mercenary attitude. But you are all dumping on guys who despite
their faults WERE profe$$ional basketball players. The worst
Celtic was/is the individual who decided the most storied franchise in the NBA needed a mascot and dancing girls.
by Greg37 on Jan 16, 2008 11:13 AM EST reply actions
As is being demonstrated this season, winning puts fannies in the seats.
by Greg37 on Jan 16, 2008 11:15 AM EST reply actions
As bad as Travis Knight was, I’ll give him one thing, he has a ring which some NBA greats don’t. I think with Travis Knight, people don’t like him because of how he and Pitino crushed the franchise. Knight did have some very good games, he just wasn’t the franchise player that Pitino hoped and gave up all of those players for.
Todd Day couldn’t carry Orien Greene’s jock strap.
I know he was a key scorer on the vaunted 15-67 ML Carr team, but watching him bastardize the game of basketball was one of the most painful experiences I ever paid $20 a game to do.
For me, he will forever represent everything that sucked about the worst season in Celtics history.
Henry “Hammerin’ Hank” Finkel played like Eric Montross but in slow motion (that’s sloooooow). Scott Pollard is a graceful matinee idol in comparison with this lumbering but lovable Hebrew giant. Hank’s greatest talent was growing above 7 feet and that’s about it. Backing up energizer bunnies like Russell and then Cowens, he entered games only in the waning seconds of the largest blowouts of those old loaded dynasty teams.
Alaa Abdelnaby – Used to stumble around on the court. Now mumbles around on NBA TV.
by Las Vegas Asian on Jan 16, 2008 4:07 PM EST reply actions
Definitly Stojko Vrankovic. Stojko was 7’6" and I remember reading somewhere that he had a 48" vertical leap. That would theoretically put the top of his head more than a foot over the rim. But alas, Stojko smoked a carton a day.
by SmokesForStojko on Jan 16, 2008 4:11 PM EST reply actions
As we watch the ball being brought up (well sometimes it gets past halfcourt) and stagnating whenever Rondo isn’t in the lineup, Orien Greene doesn’t look anywhere near the worst player we’ve ever had…Or even worse than a certain “power” forward on our roster who went 5 weeks without getting a single rebound this season. I’d take Greene as a backup PG in a heartbeat.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
NBA Playoffs Content Module
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Behind the Box Score, where the Boston Celtics are moving on to the conference finals
- NBA Playoffs Fan Fiction: San Antonio Spurs vs. Oklahoma City Thunder
- The Indiana Pacers? Gone till November
- Shaquille O’Neal is in a Chinese beer commercial, too (VIDEO)
- ‘Deep Thoughts’ and Cheap Thoughts: San Antonio Spurs vs. Oklahoma City Thunder
