Daily Babble: Passing On Mighty Mouse
by Steve Weinman on Jan 20, 2008 1:17 AM EST
in NBA
17 comments
There has been no shortage of discussion about the Celtics' point guard situation as of late. The latest speculation, of course, centers on the possibility of acquiring Damon Stoudamire, who is reportedly on the verge of a buyout with the Grizzlies.
Indeed, after much internal debate by the Celts' fan base during the hot start early on, it appears that a consensus has finally formed in recognition of the fact that, yes, this team likely does need to bring in some help at the point (and in the front-court as well) if it is going to get to the level many hope it will reach by season's end. Rajon Rondo has been for the most part a pleasant surprise, but his youth, questionable health and questionable jump shot have made it apparent that the Celts likely need an insurance policy that goes beyond Tony Allen, Eddie House or Gabe Pruitt at this point.
That in mind, it is in the best interests of the Celtics for Danny Ainge to continue to exercise patience as his greatest virtue, as he has all season with his extra roster space. This team is 32-6, and the need for help is really in the long-term. Whether or not it makes a few games difference in the Celtics' overall record between now and the trading deadline is far less significant than the difference made by obtaining help for the playoffs. What this means is that there is no need to make a move just for the sake of doing so.
As of now, acquiring Damon Stoudamire appears to be just that sort of move.
All of Steve's daily posts can be found in the CelticsBlog: NBA blog. Check him out!
Stoudamire plays the point guard position, and he can handle the basketball with some degree of efficacy. So yes, in that regard, it makes him a clear upgrade at the position than what the Celtics currently have beyond Rondo.
But beyond that, there isn't much to write home about.
On this team built around chemistry and the ubuntu theme, Stoudamire isn't exactly the perfect fit. Referring to Mighty Mouse's past as "checkered" puts it mildly, as he has had multiple drug-related incidents and was a prominent part of the Jail Blazer Era during his days in Portland, representing both the "jail" and "blazing" motifs espoused by much of the roster at that point (not that he was necessarily serving all that much time, but he was running into trouble with the law). While the Celtics have very strong leadership on the roster and could likely afford to take on a questionable character with the skills to greatly benefit the team, Stoudamire's history puts his character well past "questionable," and the skills aren't necessarily going to be enough of a difference-maker that bringing him in becomes worth the risk.
The fact of the matter is that Stoudamire's skills simply aren't that special, especially at the advanced age of 34. He doesn't bring the added scoring punch that other on-the-market point guards such as Sam Cassell and Gary Payton would, and he certainly doesn't shoot the ball particularly effectively from the field. Stoudamire hasn't cracked the 40 percent mark from the field in four seasons and is just a 40.7 percent shooter for his career. Not exactly enticing when one of the principal goals of bringing in a competent backup for Rondo would be to have a player who can make opponents pay for focusing on the three studs by hitting the occasional open jump shot. Stoudamire isn't a particularly dynamic passer and isn't known as a great defender. As such, the question of just how much better the Celtics get with Stoudamire on board becomes a very viable one.
This isn't to say that the team needs to go out and get Cassell or Payton or that they have the means to do so. But unless the feeling is that Damon Stoudamire's presence would almost assuredly allow this Celts team to take a quantum leap forward when it matters most, rushing into an agreement to acquire him hardly seems worth the haste, the cost or the character risk undertaken by bringing him in.
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Nicely said Steve, I agree for the most part. I hate this nagging feeling of worry that says we may well regret passing up on one of these guys.
Stoudamire is not going to be a big asset defensively and you have to wonder what he can offer offensively. He also will have to accept a backup role and that is something he has a problem with already in Memphis.
Any contract he is offered has got to be carefully worded and incentive laden to make him behave and let us out of it if he doesnt meet some parameters.
Just be very careful Danny. 8)
by billysan on Jan 20, 2008 6:05 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
while i agree that its best for the celtics to pass on the addition of stoudamire to the team, i think your article makes a glaring omission by not discussing stoudamire’s career 3-point prowess. thats really been the bread and butter of his scoring game for the better part of his career. his career 3point% is 35.8% (Larry Legend’s was 37.6% for comparison) so he would, at the very least, add another body on the squad who can shoot the longball.
by mikeford on Jan 20, 2008 8:25 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
mike,
Thanks for bringing the point up; you’re right that I should have noted that over the course of his career, Stoudamire has been able to shoot it from deep a bit. That said, I’m not sure how much the 35.8 career percentage is to write home about, as it doesn’t necessarily label him an upper-echelon shooter from there. Over the past few seasons, shooting 35.8 percent would barely be enough to get a player into the league’s top 65-70 3-point shooters (of statistically qualified players, of course). Furthermore, while Stoudamire has been shooting very well from deep this season (38.3), his two prior seasons had demonstrated notable drop-offs in his shooting from deep with figures of 34.6 and 33.7 percent over 2005-06 and 2006-07 respectively.
That said, I’m not sure the shooting from deep is good enough to really distinguish him, especially when the rest of the package is considered. Further, this team has plenty of players who like to shoot from the outside, and I think the first two priorities with bringing in point guard help on the offensive end should be guys who can penetrate and who can hit the mid-range jumper.
-sw
by Steve Weinman on Jan 20, 2008 8:48 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
billysan,
Glad you liked the piece. While I don’t like the feeling of regretting not making a certain acquisition here, I remain — as you seem to — much more partial to the “measure twice, cut once” approach here. This is a very good basketball team, and I’m wary of a hasty move screwing it up for any reason.
Good point also about Stoudamire’s issues becoming the backup, which I wrote about a couple of weeks back as well (http://www.celticsblog.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2088&Itemid=260). Didn’t actually see anything from Damon on the matter, but his agent said more than enough for the both of them.
-sw
by Steve Weinman on Jan 20, 2008 8:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
As I said last night:
If Sam was a sure bet, I’d wait for him.
I can more see him in a Celtics uniform.
He seems more like a Celtic.
I think they’d have a better shot @ 17 with Sam.
If Sam is a pipe dream, I’d sign up Damon for sure.
It’s just that Damon reminds me of an old Telfair kinda…
by mcpu40 on Jan 20, 2008 9:35 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
we need a point that can run a NBA game in the halfcourt,hit the jumper with range,push & dish,has experience for short mins but ability to play 35 if needed,hit FT’s and if he is a taller defender great…Stoudamire is perfect and we use Tony as the taller defender
by Motown on Jan 20, 2008 9:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Stoudamire is too small (5’10"). I think he’d give up more on the defensive end then he’ll help on the offensive end. Wait for Cassell or go with what we have.
by Bankshot on Jan 20, 2008 10:35 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
One of the problems the C’s have had at point is bigger PGs posting up aainst ‘em. MM @5’10" is no help here. Add his dicey shooting and the other factors Mike mentions and I say pass.
by Tenacious D on Jan 20, 2008 10:42 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well written article, but there are a few points that bear additional consideration. First, as regards the checkered past and Jailblazer days, it seems to me that this is not something that is ever held against Rasheed Wallace — he seems to have turned things around since leaving Portland. Hasn’t the same thing happened with MM? I could be wrong, but I don’t think he has been in trouble since leaving Portland. Second, while his past was indeed checkered in Portland, he had a good run there going deep in the playoffs. In my mind he brings good playoff experience. Again, I could be wrong because I haven’t followed MM much since Portland, but while he is slower now, does he show any signs of having become wiser? Does he bring that solid vet presence that would be nice at the PG position? Yes SamIAm would also bring that, but he does not seem available….
by Cman on Jan 20, 2008 10:59 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I wonder how healthy Stoudamire really is after the knee surgery he had in 2005, as he essentially missed the 2005-06 season, and split time with Chucky Atkins last year. This year he’s split time with Kyle Lowry and Navarro, and then became irrelevant with Conley entering the picture.
My main complaint is that like Eddie House, the guy is not known for his defense, and that was born out of his play last year with the Grizzlies. Personally, I think that with the knee issue, he’s damaged goods and is absolutely done . . . at least Cassell has shown to have something left in the tank . . .
To his credit, I think the Jailblazer reputation is a non-issue at this point.
Anyone feeling some familiarity with Stoudamire and the Celtics PGs? In 1998, the Celtics traded Billups to Toronto for Kenny Anderson, who had just been traded from Portland to the Raptors for Stoudamire. Anderson forced the Raptors by not reporting, and so was flipped to the Celtics for the future NBA Final MVP Billups. It’s a small world in NBA circles.
by ManchvegasBob on Jan 20, 2008 11:07 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Nice piece Steve! I think most of us concur that at this point, patience is indeed a virtue. Personally, I’m quite mixed on adding Damon and as such would describe my interest level with a resounding, “Ehh…”
by AllabouttheGREEN on Jan 20, 2008 1:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Stoudamire is a good locker room guy. He’s one of the most proffessional guys in the league and he’s a good influence. Let all that nonsense about his ‘checkered past’ go. It has no place in this discussion.
From a talent level he isn’t really an upgrade. From a skill set point of view he clearly provides something we don’t have and that’s something that we would like to have. I’m not sure it’s enough to get him a spot in the rotation, more likely to be a situational sub depending on matchups and need. If he’s interested in that type of role it’s worth exploring.
I’m not that interested in adding him but there is some virtue to the idea. Hesitant to displace Eddie House with the way he’s been playing. I also like what TA brings to the table. Not a lot of room for another guard unless he’s a clear upgrade for the team which Damon isn’t.
by Who on Jan 20, 2008 1:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think 32-6 speaks volumes. I think what DA said about not one loss came this year because of the PG position speaks strongly in favor of “stay the course” as well.
If solid and uniquely talented PG’s were easy to find, everyone would have one —-and they don’t —not even close.
(1) Stay the course, (2) hope Doc learns how to rotate players better, (3) crash the boards, (4) quit shooting so flippin many threes and we will be fine.
Sit down and quit rocking the boat all you people who like to tweak lineups like it’s fantasy league. CHEMISTRY 101 – read the book
by Master Po on Jan 20, 2008 1:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t pick up Stoudemire even if Sam Cassell is 100% not going to be a Celtic. Guy sucks.
by cmoney on Jan 20, 2008 4:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I’m with both Who and Master Po. We have chemistry of a unique nature now and E. House is part of it. Stand pat for now. But Who, who says Stoudamire is a god clubhouse guy? I guess they can all grow up but he’s been a serial problem. Payton and Cassell are yesterday’s newspaper. If they still had game they’d be playing. Yes, pure PG drops off after Rondo but we can make the adjustments to get the ball into the half court O quickly. It seems like they have. I do not want to rotate out E. House’s minutes. And I want to see Pruitt get white hot experience.
by Wildblu1 on Jan 20, 2008 6:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
But Who, who says Stoudamire is a god clubhouse guy? I guess they can all grow up but he’s been a serial problem.
He absolutely has not been. The man gets a few bad press clips for marijuana and suddenly everything he has ever done has been problematic? Nonsense
Grizzlies owner Heisley has repeatedly praised Stoudamire’s professional behaviour over the last two years. I went looking for some quotes but it’s near impossible with the flood of buyout stories taking the first few pages of google but trust me he said him. Here’s the best I could find:
“I have deep affection for Damon Stoudamire,” Heisley said. "I was invited to and went to his wedding in Hawaii. He’s been a stand-up guy. We’re not going to treat Damon in a cavalier manner.
“We’re not going to treat Damon in a cavalier manner,” Heisley said. “If the opportunity presents itself, I’d love to see Damon play for a championship team.”
He’s also gone out of his way to help to with Conley, not the first young point. Telfair was another. Despite both coming in to take his job, he never held it against them and worked to help both. He knew this was the business part and cheered them on as a teammate and helped them with it.
When Mo Cheeks was in trouble in Portland does Damon start taking nights off? No, instead he redoubled his effort while the rest of his teammates started quitting and. Playing at 5-10 as a shooting guard most nights because of injuries while trying to defend the Tracy McGradys of this world. Giving the team some hope as everything else fell apart around him.
When the team said that Telfair was their future what did Stoudamire do? He said he was happy to stay and be a backup for his hometown team. Saying he would like to be a mentor and join the front office after he’s done, that he wants to be a Blazer. The team said their futures were in different directions. He signed for Memphis.
When the team was struggling in 2002 and Stoudamire was benched how did he respond? By becoming their sixth man and by playoff time he had become one of their best players again and had earned back nearly all his playoff time. His leadership and heart on the court were just too valuable.
…………….
My god. You get a few bad press clippings and suddenly you are a cancer. The man liked his marijuana and got caught a few times in situations that quite frankly I’m more annoyed about how stupid they were than the actual crime. Where’s the intelligence Damon?
On the court. In the locker room. He was a solid leader and a pro. Three years now in Memphis and his owner can’t say enough positive things about the man and people think he should be called a locker room problem …. That’s garbage. Three years! Nothing but praise for his conduct, professionalism, leadership in Memphis.
Here’s what Iavaroni and Conley have said about him recently:
“Damon’s been great from training camp on,” he (Iavaroni) said. “He’s helped the young kids by the way he’s conducted himself, also by his talk on the court and in the locker room.”
Conley is grateful for what he has learned from Stoudamire. He credits his “good buddy” for his progress during his rookie year and swears there is no tension between the two.
Damon Stoudamire = Good Guy
by Who on Jan 20, 2008 11:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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